Karagin
01/28/02 05:08 PM
63.173.170.83
|
How would you go about adding in or using the following:
The Valiant Lamellor armor is another of the Marauder's singular features. Less massive and better able to distribute heat and kinetic energy than other armor types, the secret of its manufacture has been lost. In the present era, the Marauder is one of the few 'Mechs to use it
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Zilaz
01/28/02 05:38 PM
66.72.160.246
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Every 1 point of damage from a weapon is worth .85 points of damage vs the Valiant Lamellor(rounding up)
sooo...
(C)ER PPC 15 damage
15*.85=12.75
13pts. of damage to the armor location
(Keep in mind I have no idea what I'm doing, this is something I came up with on the spot to fit the fluff)
I think, therefore you is.
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NathanKell
01/28/02 06:30 PM
24.44.238.62
|
Or just...like Ferro-Fibrous, period!
(i.e. multiply armor points in each location by 1.12 and round to the nearest pt)
-NathanKell, BT Space Wars
Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear.
Thomas Jefferson |
Karagin
01/28/02 07:52 PM
63.173.170.151
|
But you see while that is all great, this out of the 3025 TR not later models...
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Karagin
01/28/02 08:24 PM
63.173.170.151
|
Do you play Battletech? Do you use a beat up mech each and every time you play?
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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NathanKell
01/28/02 09:37 PM
24.44.238.62
|
Quite.
However, if you want to simulate what the Marauder's "advanced" armor would be like (as I took your topic to ask) then it would seem logical to use the only statistic we have for advanced Star League armor--namely, advanced Star League armor (aka Ferro-Fibrous).
-NathanKell, BT Space Wars
Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear.
Thomas Jefferson |
NathanKell
01/28/02 09:37 PM
24.44.238.62
|
Whoops;
Yep, you're both right.
My and others' suggestions would only apply to maybe 1st or 2nd SW battles.
-NathanKell, BT Space Wars
Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear.
Thomas Jefferson |
Bob_Richter
01/29/02 12:19 AM
134.121.247.162
|
>>>Do you play Battletech?<<<
Yes.
>>>Do you use a beat up mech each and every time you play? <<<
No, we repair them between fights. (duh!)
There's no new supply of Valian Lamellor and...."As blasted patches have to be replaced with conventional armor, some Marauders now resemble metallic patchwork quilts."
(from TR3025)
Do you use a fresh, new, fresh-from the factory 'Mech every time you play? in 3025?
Even new factory-produced Marauders probably lack the Valiant Lamellor.
It seems obvious to me that the Marauder was a test platform for Ferro-Fibrous armor, much like a number of 'Mechs from the 2750 TRO. That just wasn't reflected in its 3025 design specs.
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter
Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
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Karagin
01/29/02 12:25 AM
63.173.170.199
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Thank you bob for adding something useful to this topic.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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KamikazeJohnson
01/29/02 12:51 AM
209.202.47.12
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The only other alternative is to assign a higher armor factor to the Marauder (although the TRO neglects to do this). This would be similar, if not identical to the effects of FF armor. And, as stated in other posts, it would be impossible to repair or replace damaged armor, unless someone is sitting on a stash of the stuff...
Personally, it would be hard to justify using the advanced armor while holding to "realism", but if it is used, increased armor factor is probably the way to go
Peace is that glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.
--Thomas Jefferson
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Karagin
01/30/02 11:34 AM
63.173.170.201
|
Hello...once again, how about either coming up with a way for it to be used or don't interject your comments if you are not going to be helpful.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Karagin
01/30/02 11:42 AM
63.173.170.201
|
Are you and Bob related?
The thread is about how the armor on the mech could be made to reflect the fluff text description. If you would take the time to read the other comments for the most part they try and cover that, what they don't do for the most part is be as brash and as crude as your's was.
Your's doesn't add anything to the converstation and in fact it detracts from it. So if it is to much to ask of you please don't comment on my posting if all you are going to is try to start something that in no way reflects the topic on hand.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Bob_Richter
01/30/02 01:53 PM
134.121.157.14
|
Um. I would like to point out that my answer was "Use Ferro-Fibrous."
Some Marauders may still have their original armoring...especially if you just found them in a Brian Cache or something.
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter
Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
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Cray
01/30/02 03:56 PM
204.245.128.3
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Sounds like ferrofibrous. Ton for ton, ferrofibrous does distribute heat and kinetic energy better than standard mech armor, i.e. it's less massive for the protection it provides.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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Cray
01/30/02 03:57 PM
204.245.128.3
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>it does not ablate laser fire or kinetic energy any better than standard armor
Yes it does. FF provides ~18 points of protection per ton from such attacks compared to standard armor's 16 points. That, IMO, is the definition of "ablating laser fire or kinetic energy better than standard armor."
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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Bob_Richter
01/30/02 05:01 PM
134.121.247.162
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As I have explained many times, more armor points means better ability to ablate heavy and kinetic energy.
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter
Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
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Bob_Richter
01/30/02 05:07 PM
134.121.247.162
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Well, in that case...your POV is the wrong one 
Er, that is, you're looking at it wrong.
An AC/20 does 20 points of damage, yes, but 20 points of damage is not 20 points of damage.
Now, admittedly, FF would make more sense if it increased the armor thresholds, but that's not what we're talking about, is it?
It clearly gives more armor protection for less mass. FREX:
With standard armor, a MAD-3R has 184 armor points, massing 11.5 tons.
With Ferro-Fibrous armor, it can have 188 armor points, massing 10.5 tons
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter
Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
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Zilaz
01/30/02 06:13 PM
66.72.165.18
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The problem with using the FF armor is that it requires re-working the 'Mech
Say you were playing a scenario jsut after teh SLDF Exodus....
You want to use the Marauder 'special' armor, but don't want to rework the 'Mech.... Use rules similar to what I put up in the begining.
I'm fairly sure his request was for a house rule to make the 'special' armor come to life... not what kind of armor to use instead of standard in a refit....
I think, therefore you is.
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Bob_Richter
01/30/02 07:42 PM
134.121.157.14
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Such a "reworking" would take all of three minutes.
Less with a 'Mech editor.
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter
Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
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Karagin
01/30/02 07:43 PM
63.173.170.87
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The Valiant Lamellor armor is another of the Marauder's singular features. Less massive and better able to distribute heat and kinetic energy than other armor types, the secret of its manufacture has been lost. In the present era, the Marauder is one of the few 'Mechs to use it.
Please note the bold part and tell me again that the Marauder doesn't have it...or at least the factory fresh mechs do seem to have it.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Zilaz
01/30/02 08:02 PM
66.72.165.18
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'Reworking' defeats the point. The point isn't to give it the same ammount of armor for less weight... thats what a later version (I don't recal which) is for.... The point is to make the exsisting armor 'more effective' as the fluff says.
I think, therefore you is.
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NathanKell
01/30/02 08:03 PM
24.44.238.62
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Your other option is to multiply amor pts. by 1.6 (as that's what Valiant Lamellor armor does for spacecraft).
That may be a bit excessive, though 
-NathanKell, BT Space Wars
Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear.
Thomas Jefferson |
Bob_Richter
01/31/02 12:55 AM
134.121.157.14
|
Eh. So put Ferro-Fibrous on it. I really don't see what the problem is here.
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter
Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
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Bob_Richter
01/31/02 12:58 AM
134.121.157.14
|
Note the preceding statement: The secret of its manufacture has been lost.
I think it's pretty safe to say that most Marauders no longer mount it, and factory models are being punched out with standard armor.
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter
Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
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Cray
01/31/02 07:09 AM
204.245.128.3
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Even in the case of #1, the lower weight means the armor is more efficient and performing better.
Both #1 and #2 say the same: FF performs better than normal armor.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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Cray
01/31/02 07:11 AM
204.245.128.3
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>Less massive and better able to distribute heat and kinetic energy than other armor types, the secret of its manufacture has been lost
Since that's 3025-era text, that's a picture perfect description of Ferro-Fibrous. It is less massive for the protection it provides and in 3025 the secret of its manufacture was lost.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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Karagin
01/31/02 03:17 PM
63.173.170.67
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Did you read the bold part? Seems that Marauders have the armor if it's right out the factory door, so there would a few with it on them.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Karagin
01/31/02 03:19 PM
63.173.170.67
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Thank you for your comments, but they don't have any bearing on the topic, but thank you for the comments.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Bob_Richter
02/01/02 04:30 AM
134.121.247.162
|
You do realise comments like this are exceptionally rude, right?
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter
Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
|
Karagin
02/01/02 05:54 AM
63.173.170.176
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And your's aren't? What's your don't like how it feels to be bashed on? If that's the case then how about you stop doing it and I won't do it to you. Fair enough?
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Cray
02/01/02 07:36 AM
204.245.128.3
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Yes. So what? That in no way, shape or form invalidates the theory that the MAD's armor is ferrofibrous.
It could mean either a) the factories have large stockpiles from when FF was still manufactured or b) while the secret behind manufacturing FF was lost, it was still in production from incomprehensible "black box machines."
Theory b) is a perfect fit for 3025-era fluff. It describes the case of the automated Valkerie factory on New Avalon, which produces 130 Valkeries a year but engineers don't know how it works anymore, or those myomer implantation gizmos for fixing up mangled human limbs. Quite possibly the MAD's armor is a third case, where some gizmo in the factory continues to produce FF armor even though none of the engineers know how its done.
Like I said, FF is a perfect fit for the MAD's armor.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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Bob_Richter
02/01/02 08:16 AM
134.121.247.162
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No, Karagin.
Because I don't do this sort of thing, you do.
You ask for opinions on a public forum, you're going to get them. Fair?
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter
Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
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Karagin
02/01/02 08:27 AM
63.173.170.4
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Man you are funny today...getting folks opinions is one thing, having you rip them or the posters to shreads cause they don't take yours as fact is the problem.
So please note the difference and act accordingly.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Bob_Richter
02/01/02 08:36 AM
134.121.247.162
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*rolls eyes*
You spend far too much time looking in the mirror and talking to me.
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter
Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
|
NathanKell
02/01/02 08:46 PM
24.44.238.62
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What? You think he didn't mean it?
It's always better to err on the side of politeness when examining potential sarcasm...
-NathanKell, BT Space Wars
Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear.
Thomas Jefferson |
LordChaos
02/01/02 11:28 PM
216.161.103.20
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Personaly, I would not call it FF armor. Thanks to TRO2750, we know that FF armor is something else entirely.
I, personaly, if you realy wanted to make some sort of change to incorporate this, would say it gives the mad 17 points of armor per ton, or 11 points more then it has (the TRO would discribe one that is in it's "current" state, meaning the patchwork of armor).
Of course, if we are going to do that for the armor fluff in the MAD, we should do it for other fluff texts... hmmm... I've got nothing better to do tonight, I think I'll grab my 3025 TRO and write up a list of mech changes to reflect the text...
Real mechwariors pilot IS mechs.
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LordChaos
02/02/02 12:42 AM
216.161.103.20
|
rough, of course, so polish away.
Stinger - -1 to piloting skill roll to avoiding damage in falls. Head hits due 2 damage to pilot instead of 1 (cramped cockpit).
Spider - extra +1 modifier to hit when jumping.
Urban Mech - +1 modifier to hit it at long ranges (profile).
Jenner - can not punch (duh!)
Ostscout - Beagle Active Probe (or equivilent).
Panther - If punching with the right arm, 1 in 6 chance for the PPC to produce +2 heat when fired.
Assassin - 1 in 6 chance SRM ammo feed jams ever time mech takes damage or piloting skill role required (SRM now a one shot).
Clint - -1 to target number for to hit rolls (supperior targeting system) x4 for repair times though.
Vulcan - +1 modifier to hit it at long ranges (profile).
Whintworth - +1 on the roll to determin possible crit for leg hits.
Hatchetman - -1 to target number for to hit rolls when shooting at aircraft/aerospace fighters (superior targeting of them).
Phoenix Hawk - -1 to target number for to hit rolls (assuming Tru-Trak still in place).
vindicator - If standing in water (and not moving), PPC generates 0 heat (however, if playing with smoke rules, the treat the resulting steam cloud as smoke lasting 1 round). LRM requires 1 crit hits to take out.
Griffin - +1 armor to head, right torso, and left torso for attacks from the sides.
Scorpion - Can move with only 2 legs functional (duh!). Can not torso twist. Can turn 2 hex facings for 1 mp. Infintry in the same hex can attack with weapons fire effecting internal structure directly (lack of armor on it's "belly).
Dragon - +1 to piloting skill roll to avoid falling.
Quickdraw - flip it's arms to fire to the rear. 1/6 chance of loosing 1mp (walk) with any damage to legs.
Rifleman - -1 to target number for to hit rolls vs aircraft.
Catapult - Jump Jets may fail on a 1/6 chance first time used.
Jagermech - -1 to target number for to hit rolls vs aircraft.
Acher - Head it's from behind are impossible - treat as CT(r).
Warhammer - suffers no penelties for fighting at night (assuming such are in use in your location).
Marauder - 1 extra point armor to all locations (11 extra points total) IF original armor is still in place. +1 to hit it at long range (profile). 1/6 chance of AC jamming if torso hit.
Orion - 2/6 chance of AC jamming UNLESS mech only starts with 19 rounds instead of 20. Orion V has a +1 to all to hit numbers.
Goliath - treat PPC as if in a turret. Can not torso twist, however. MGs produce 1 point of heat instead of 0.
Zeus - Punch from RA does 10 points damage as opposed to 8. Large Laser only takes 1 critical slot instead of 2.
Atlas - can lift 20 tons with 1 arm/hand, or 40 tons with both.
Real mechwariors pilot IS mechs.
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BigCol
02/02/02 04:47 AM
210.49.129.84
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I do not mind that list, but the Spider has the biggest problem with lack of room in the head so it should have the 2 pilots hits per head hits thingo.
I could be wrong here though.
Cheers
Col
I don't want the world...
I just want your half...
Ana Ng - They Might be Giants
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Bob_Richter
02/02/02 11:36 AM
4.35.174.250
|
"Potential" sarcasm?
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter
Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
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LordChaos
02/02/02 03:12 PM
216.161.102.47
|
Going by image, you would be correct. However, the panther't fluff text mentions how tight a fit the cockpit is, while the spider's doesn't.
Real mechwariors pilot IS mechs.
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Nightmare
02/10/02 10:19 AM
194.251.240.107
|
The Spider lacks the ejection system though. That should
say something about how little room there is in the head.
BTW, a Marauder mounting 11,5 tons of FF armor would be
quite nice. I think that`s the best way of doing it. There are
mentions of Mechwarriors stockpiling spare parts for their
own use in the TRo 3025. Some rich bastard can certainly
afford to strip the Valiant Lamellor from a company`s worth
of Marauders and hide it away for his own command mech.
Advice for Evil Overlords:
My legions of terror will be trained in basic marksmanship. Any who cannot learn to hit a man-sized target at 10 meters will be used for target practice.
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LordChaos
02/12/02 11:11 PM
216.161.103.225
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It doesn't though. Makes no mention of cockpit space.
and for the marauder, I'm dead set AGAINST FF armor. it makes no mention of the bulk associated with the armor. It's OLDER then FF armor. Obviously a different product. Hence my 11 extra points of "armor" (1 per location, does allow going over max armor in a location via the extra points), to simulate superior protection without any additional mass OR bulk.
Real mechwariors pilot IS mechs.
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LordChaos
02/14/02 02:01 AM
216.161.100.167
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The javilin's drawback is specificly stated as a rule modification in the text of the mech.
The others are not fluf interpitations, but an interpitation of the image/figure.
Future Wars did a similar project titled "real mechs". Things like extra damage from the warhamer's kick due to the shape of it's feet.
I tried to avoid listing those and went strictly by the fluff. Reveiwed every mech in the 3025 (not the revised one) read out and put them together...
You want one that takes into account the figure as well... well, give me a few days. 
Real mechwariors pilot IS mechs.
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LordChaos
02/14/02 03:42 PM
216.161.103.48
|
The article DID base on the figure/drawing though.
there is no mention in the fluff text regaurding the jenner's ability to even punch. Nor that of the urban mech except for the armless varient.
There's nothing in the fluff text of the centurion regaurding a requirement to fire the LRM at the same target as another weapon.
the Marauder's and atlas's modification in that list are not even hinted at in the fluff text.
Real mechwariors pilot IS mechs.
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LordChaos
02/15/02 12:06 AM
216.161.101.115
|
Urbanmech: "The 'Mech's Durallex Heavy Armor provides considerable protection, and its low, stocky profile makes it a difficult target."
Nothing about no punches.... and I did list a modification to hitting it.
Centurion: "The CN9 can also lay covering fire at long ranges. However, it is rarely used in this capacity because the launch rate of its LRM-10 is too slow to be effective against multiple opponents."
Nothing about any of the Cent's OTHER weapons. It just states that it's rate of fire is to low for the LRM and ONLY the LRM to be effective against multiple targets (ie - you'd get overrun if there are more then 1).
Marauder: "The Magna Hellstar PPCs that provide the Marauder's main armament are of an advanced design, compact enough to be carried in the 'Mech's arms and durable enough to withstand the heavy shocks of hand-to-hand combat."
Many other mechs use arm mounted PPCs. The Mad's are DURABLE enough to survie the shock of using the arm to punch. any further is just an ungrounded assumption.
Real mechwariors pilot IS mechs.
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LordChaos
02/15/02 01:16 AM
216.161.101.115
|
Grrrrrrrrrrrr
Ok, how about I just go through the 3025 TRO again and use fluff PLUS an examination of the minitures to come up with modifications for specific mechs?
Real mechwariors pilot IS mechs.
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Nightmare
02/15/02 10:13 AM
194.251.240.107
|
Considering what the BMR states, a mech can punch without
a lower arm actuator. It will, however, have a +2 to hit and cause only half punch damage. A missing hand adds a further +1 to hit. No matter how ridiculous the model looks, it can still try a punch as long as the shoulder actuator is working.
Advice for Evil Overlords:
My legions of terror will be trained in basic marksmanship. Any who cannot learn to hit a man-sized target at 10 meters will be used for target practice.
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Karagin
08/09/06 03:25 PM
214.13.128.178
|
Another round for this one.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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sdog
08/09/06 04:32 PM
139.174.165.124
|
first suggestion:
the lamelous armour is more effective than the normal inner sphere, however there are hardly any undamaged Marauders, what we see are the patchworks. this use of standard armour, reduces the effectivity of the marauders armour to the levels of normal mechs.
2nd suggestion:
this great lamelous armour allowed the designers to create a very good looking streamlined design, with the same weight and protection as the inferiour standard armour.
[update]
a third one:
while the lamelous armour provided more protection at much less weight, the Star League beauracacy required a minimum weight per protection ratio in all their specifications. Therefor GM distributed about 2 tons of lead on the backsides of the lamelous armour plates.
I realised soon that the fun part of playing a military game is that we have lots of lifes and in the end knowone dies, ...
- Skaven, ArmA modding community
Edited by sdog (08/09/06 04:41 PM)
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Toontje
08/09/06 04:47 PM
84.24.178.225
|
After 4 years?
I'd say go with teh FF suggestion, easiest to play with.
You get a spare ton to play with, either a HS or another ton of AC ammo?
Rather to blow up, then.
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Cray
08/09/06 06:27 PM
70.118.43.50
|
Quote:
How would you go about adding in or using the following:
<br>
<br> The Valiant Lamellor armor is another of the Marauder's singular features. Less massive and better able to distribute heat and kinetic energy than other armor types, the secret of its manufacture has been lost. In the present era, the Marauder is one of the few 'Mechs to use it
I originally was of the opinion that it was just Ferro-Fibrous before FF was introduced - you can see my posts to that effect in this thread - but TR:2750 shot that idea in the foot. The Sentinel in TR:2750 carries Valient Lamellor, but has standard armor despite the presence of mechs and other units in TR:2750 with FF armor.
So, VL armor seems to be standard armor with a good marketing campaign fluffing it up.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
Edited by Cray (08/09/06 06:29 PM)
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Karagin
08/10/06 12:09 PM
214.13.130.100
|
Interesting theory on the marketing idea, that does sound really good and would be something a company would try or do to get the sale.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Karagin
08/10/06 12:09 PM
214.13.130.100
|
Yes after four years and cooler heads...
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Sharkomodo
09/05/06 05:13 AM
71.236.140.29
|
Just a few notes you might wanna think about: (No snippiness intended)
Spiders have no eject system
Vulcans have a hard-to-hit profile
Hermes IIs have a satelite relay system
Ostscouts do NOT have a beagle probe, or hands. They have to wiggle their arms wildly in the air, store the massive tape of data, and then process it at an HQ later. Silly as hell.
Garret d2j tracking systems have rules printed for them. +4 to hit airborne targets including fighters, heliocopters and lams. Only the Rifleman and Jagermech mount them (oh and partisan tanks).
Cyclops have advanced comm relay AND can help share sensor information
Ostroc and Ostsol have arms and hands
Orions have an arm-4 and a medium laser in their left arm
Banshee-3S has 2 med laser in its right arm.
Vindicators are hard to eject from safely.
Well, Jayne, my days of not taken you seriously are comin' to a middle.
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Toontje
09/05/06 04:23 PM
84.24.178.225
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There was a list which also listed zeuses as hitting for +1 damage with a fists, and IICR same for both archers punches.
Rather to blow up, then.
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