Karagin
02/01/02 12:13 AM
63.173.170.102
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Okay just got done with this book.
First off, I did not like it. They, FASA, took another authors (Andrew Kiehts) pet group, gave it to someone else, in this case Gressman, and then let him wipe out the GDL.
Second, once again Gressman shows he has no clue as to ability of the reader to figure out military lexicon. Once again he repeats himself exampling what CAP is or what MAD is. It forces one to think that either he was told to do this or he himself had NO clue as to what the acornyms meant.
Then the real kicker, how many mercenary units just happen to have the Duke AND CEO of a major weapons and mech maker in their ranks? What? The answer is zero, okay just wanting to make sure. I mean it would be nice if all the merc groups had this, would make their jobs so much easier...
The battles read like someone took a bunch of WW2 dog fights where Gressman simply dropped the planes for mechs. Mechs were dropping like files, and in the whole mess the entire GDL is able to act like a whole army not just the legion size that it is...forgive me but an important target as Hespures is one would think that more then three mech regiments would be on site, adding in the milita (speaking of that where and from what era did Gressman dig up the term miliz or did he make it up?) and the company's own security forces doesn't seem like it's enough to hold the continet the plant is on much less the planet, and give that it is Lyran Allaince's only mech plant left, funny I could have sworn that both TR3058 and 3060 had them having others...you would think they would have more there to protect it.
It is also amazing that the GDL did not have ONE 3050 version of the Unseen, sorry but to me this is nuts. They would have had time to get all new machines. Heck they were running around in mechs that read more like as SLDF regiment then a merc unit. It is good to know they had enough money to be able to afford ComStar mechs and remakes of the old SLDF mechs...don't know many player units that can field a Highlander, Gallowglas, Guillatine, Grim Reaper....
Overall the book is a shame, it is an easy way to get rid of the GDL, and a slap in the face to Andrew Kieths and all the time and effort he has put into the BT universe. Also it's perfect for moving the story line into the upcomming Dark Age Mage Knight version and storyline.
I wonder who is next on the chopping block? Wolf's Dragoons? Hansen's Roughriders? MAC?
Anyway that's my opinion of the novel, it could have been better written and less of kill the GDL so we can have a clean slate for our new version type of novel.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Greyslayer
02/01/02 02:09 AM
63.12.145.53
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I would have to disagree. I would say the Wolf Dragoons are the most boring unit in creation. I have never been able to read a single novel about them from cover to cover, they have this and that and the other.... boring!!!
Greyslayer
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Bob_Richter
02/01/02 04:25 AM
134.121.247.162
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>>>Second, once again Gressman shows he has no clue as to ability of the reader to figure out military lexicon. Once again he repeats himself exampling what
CAP is or what MAD is. It forces one to think that either he was told to do this or he himself had NO clue as to what the acornyms meant. <<<
Tom bloody CLANCY explains CAP every time it comes up in one of his books. The reader should not be and is not expected to know specialist jargon like that of the military.
>>>Then the real kicker, how many mercenary units just happen to have the Duke AND CEO of a major weapons and mech maker in their ranks? What? The
answer is zero, okay just wanting to make sure. <<<
Says who?
>>>It is also amazing that the GDL did not have ONE 3050 version of the Unseen, sorry but to me this is nuts. <<<
I agree, but this is NOT Gressman's fault.
>>>Overall the book is a shame, it is an easy way to get rid of the GDL, and a slap in the face to Andrew Kieths and all the time and effort he has put into the
BT universe. Also it's perfect for moving the story line into the upcomming Dark Age Mage Knight version and storyline. <<<
GDL needed to die. I'm pretty sure Keith wouldn't have minded. And if you're bothered by the death of the GDL, you're in good company -- Gressman is a manic GDL fan too.
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter
Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
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Bob_Richter
02/01/02 04:26 AM
134.121.247.162
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There are more boring units than GDL and Wolf's Dragoons. Just not many, and noone's written novels about them either.
Personally I want a novel about Grim Determination or something. Other merc units need some time in the spotlight, you know what I mean?
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter
Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
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Karagin
02/01/02 05:58 AM
63.173.170.176
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All that is nice Bob, thank you for comments. I am so glad Clancy does that and did you know that alot of time's the books with his name on them AREN'T always written 100% by him, so I won't hold him any higher then that.
And yes Bob the reader should know what CAP or TOC and that means since by now, after reading all of the books in the BT line they should have figured it out, and given that a good half if not more of the folks playing the game do have some idea of how the military works those thing need not be explain every time it comes up. But I forgot you have in your vastness of knoweldge have spoken and all must fall be your.
Gressman is hack, his work is not any better then those that written the $2.95 romance novels that are sold at the gorcery store.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Bob_Richter
02/01/02 08:14 AM
134.121.247.162
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>>>And yes Bob the reader should know what CAP or TOC and that means since by now, after reading all of the books in the BT line they should have figured it out, and given
that a good half if not more of the folks playing the game do have some idea of how the military works those thing need not be explain every time it comes up. <<<
These books must give attention to the needs not only of long-time readers and players but of first-time readers.
You know, it's absolutely amazing that you can have a complaint like this. It's hardly unique to Gressman. EVERYONE who's ANYONE in writing explains specialist jargon when it's important to the story.
>>>Gressman is hack, his work is not any better then those that written the $2.95 romance novels that are sold at the gorcery store. <<<
You're an idiot. Your reviews aren't worth the electronic medium they're written on.
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter
Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
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Karagin
02/01/02 08:25 AM
63.173.170.4
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Most folks writing military fiction cover the aberations once maybe twice, so the reader can follow them, NOT EVERY FREAKING TIME THEY COME UP.
And the only idot is you Bob, who can't let anyone else have an opinion that you don't agree with or okay.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Bob_Richter
02/01/02 08:35 AM
134.121.247.162
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*rolls his eyes*
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter
Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
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Cray
02/01/02 09:08 AM
204.245.128.3
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>>Then the real kicker, how many mercenary units just happen to have the Duke AND CEO of a major weapons and mech maker in their ranks? What? The answer is zero, okay just wanting to make sure. <<
>Says who?
Sez me. It sounds moronic, as does the lack of defenses on Hesperus.
Point taken about the CAP/MAD thing. I once asked SM Stirling (anyone want his e-mail address?) why he wasted so much time on clumsy re-tellings of past novels in a series, and the answer was: a) editors want it, b) it's unprofessional not to have it. For the benefit of the militarily-impaired readers, I'm sure editors demanded Gressman include explanations of military acronyms.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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Karagin
02/01/02 09:56 AM
63.173.170.147
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Even Stirling doesn't repeat what it means each and every time, I have read his Draka books and others, to know that much. (And no I don't want his email, already have it.)
It's one thing to have in there a couple of times for those who don't know what it means, but not each and every time. Gressman over kills on the meanings of the acronyms and he uses some that have NOT been in current military useage in years, like for example, MIGCAP went out of use when the Wall came down and the Warsaw Pact broke up...yet if you follow Gressman's like of reasoning 3000 years later it's still there being used...
Sorry but there is being helpful for the average reader and over killing it on explaining things like that. If it is that bad then they (FASA/WK/FANPRO) should go back to having the glossary at the end of the book so all the acronyms and what not can be explained in detail...but wait why do something simple when you cram an extra 50 words in the main text by repeating your self over and over etc...again.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Cray
02/01/02 10:39 AM
204.245.128.3
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I'm still betting it's an editor-demanded thing. Some editor (with a liberal arts degree) who gets confused when he sees all that brutish military terminology demands the writer insert an explanation.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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Karagin
02/01/02 10:41 AM
63.173.170.147
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It could be, but that problem could have been solved with a glossary at the end of the novel, much like earlier novels had...simple easy and they don't take away form the story...
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Warner_Doles
02/01/02 12:46 PM
206.27.40.65
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In reply to:
">>>Gressman is hack, his work is not any better then those that written the $2.95 romance novels that are sold at the gorcery store. <<<
You're an idiot. Your reviews aren't worth the electronic medium they're written on."
Hmm... I second that.
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Bob_Richter
02/01/02 02:08 PM
134.121.247.162
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Yeah. WotB was damned good. I avoided buying it for years 'cause it was 3025...I went back and picked it up once when I had some money to blow...and was completely blown away. Still high on the list of favorites.
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter
Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
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Karagin
02/01/02 02:28 PM
63.173.170.75
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No let him flame, he has more to lose then I do, given his postion as the spokesperson for CBT and FanPro's mouth piece on the net. So let him flame away.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Warner_Doles
02/01/02 11:44 PM
206.27.48.9
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"he has more to lose then I do, "
Wrong Karagin. I can quit this and walk away from it and not bat an eye. You on the other hand thrive on baiting people and arguing till the cows return. I agreed with Bob that your review was worthless and didn't mean crap. And I have every right to voice my opinion. Unless of course you are going to say that I cannot and censor my words. Which, is what you want any ways because I don't agree with your BS review.
You want to complain to someone about it. Fine, call the president of the country for all I care. Better yet, hit the "Moderator complaint button" at the bottom of this post and complain to Nic and the others like you do on CBT every time someone decides to say your post is crap. Your maturity level in having someone critique you is really something to be questioned here. You have something else to say about this, email it to me.
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Greyslayer
02/02/02 12:06 AM
63.12.141.150
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Don't you have something against using someone's actions on one board and using it on another?
11.) Leave problems from other boards on those boards.
From CBT ... dammit man you made me go there to check it up  .
Greyslayer
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Warner_Doles
02/02/02 10:12 AM
206.27.48.9
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Very good. But had there been a problem on CBT I wouldn't have brought it here.
I read his scything biased blast and agreed with Bob about the value of his so called "review" which was nothing more then another way of Eric "Karagin" Johnson" to use Sarna as his own anti-FASA/WizKids/FanPro/Gressman/Stackpole/Coleman/TheworldaccordingtoeveryonebutKaragin campaign.
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Karagin
02/03/02 06:02 PM
63.173.170.26
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He covered it once...I guess someone pointed out that the readers do have an idea what a battlemech is...
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Nightward
02/04/02 05:50 PM
203.134.13.194
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How did Grayson die? Why didn't Lori wipe the floor with everyone (like she did in Op: Ex when they were up against even heavier odds)? Why didn't Davis McCall go nuts (go the highlander!)? And who the hell decided it was a good idea to wipe out the single most important unit in the Inner Sphere? Without Carlyle, they would have no Lostech, and the Clans would have ridden roughshod over the IS! One would think that gratitude shoulds count for *SOMETHING*! Watch carefully, my friends. I see a fan revolt looming on the horizon...
Yea, verily. Let it be known far and wide that Nightward loathes MW: DA. Indeed, it is with the BURNING ANIMUS OF A THOUSAND SUNS that he doth rage against it with.
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Nightward
02/04/02 05:53 PM
203.134.13.194
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In any case, BattleTech novels are written for what one could define as a 'specialist' audience, and-as such-explainations should not be necessary.
Yea, verily. Let it be known far and wide that Nightward loathes MW: DA. Indeed, it is with the BURNING ANIMUS OF A THOUSAND SUNS that he doth rage against it with.
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Karagin
02/04/02 05:57 PM
63.173.170.79
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Grayson died in the opening chapter of the novel of cancer brought on from to many exposers to radation from breached engine shielding etc...
As for the rest McCall goes down fighting against a Rakasha and then everyone blows that mech to pieces...as to why Lori doesn't do a repeat, well I am not sure...guess the powers that be wanted the GDL out the picture and that ment Lori couldn't do what she would have done had Keith been writing the book.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Karagin
02/04/02 05:59 PM
63.173.170.79
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I agree hence the question to as why he (Gressman) always repeats what should be after the second time simple to figure out.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Nightward
02/04/02 06:03 PM
203.134.13.194
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Mate, this is a forum. A place where we go to share our opinions.
Personally, though I have yet to read the book, I agree with all of his points. Some authors treat their readership as idiots.
Those are my opinions. You are free to have your own. But both you, and Karagin, need tyo work on non-confrontational vocabulary.
Yea, verily. Let it be known far and wide that Nightward loathes MW: DA. Indeed, it is with the BURNING ANIMUS OF A THOUSAND SUNS that he doth rage against it with.
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Nightward
02/04/02 06:05 PM
203.134.13.194
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A Highlander should be able to smash a Rakshasa flat in 0.01 seconds. Frickin' writers...
Lori was supposed to be only a few steps behing Grayson tactiucally; she should have had few problems.
Hmmm. Maybe Stackpole wasn't being sarcastic when he said he was going to destroy the Wolves...
Yea, verily. Let it be known far and wide that Nightward loathes MW: DA. Indeed, it is with the BURNING ANIMUS OF A THOUSAND SUNS that he doth rage against it with.
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Bob_Richter
02/04/02 06:11 PM
134.121.247.162
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Actually, they're written for the mass populace, as a way of bringing in new folks to the hobby.
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter
Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
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Bob_Richter
02/04/02 06:14 PM
134.121.247.162
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Any number of us were REALLY HAPPY to see the MunchKings go.
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter
Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
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Karagin
02/04/02 06:15 PM
63.173.170.79
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Bob, folks can pick up on what acronyms mean with two explations based on the other info about HOW the words are used.
For example CAP (Combat Air Patrol) can be explained once at the begin of the action and then need not be explain again in the next chapter since the reader should have by now gotten what it means when they read of one sides fighters attack the others while covering a target or escorting something to landing or bombing point.
Or are you suggesting that the average reader is not able to figure this stuff out?
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Bob_Richter
02/04/02 06:17 PM
134.121.247.162
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It need only be explained once per book, but it DOES need to be explained.
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter
Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
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Karagin
02/04/02 06:24 PM
63.173.170.79
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Once should be enough, now only if Gressman would get the hint...oh well...
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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