Diablo
04/02/02 05:30 PM
206.186.185.6
|
I thought this one up for use in my new mech...
Shields
basicly a large plate of pure mech armour on one of the mechs arms. the armour is bought per standard armour rules. 1 ton = 16 pts of shield armour. the shields maximum armour tonnage is 20% of the mechs mass. (ie 50 ton mech can have 2.5 tons of armour). the armour for the shield can be any type except for stealth. Ferro armour takes up 2 crits in the arm. light takes up 1 and heavy takes up 3. no piloting modifiers for hardened. the shield takes up an equal number of critical slots in the corrosponding arm. the shield can be postioned to face any of the hex sides in that arms arc. any fire from that side that hit's either the torso's or the arm will be blocked by the shield. if the hit location was a critical hit (rolled a 2) then the shield was bypassed and the shots hit normaly. if the shield covers an arc which is the same as any torso or leg weapons, then those weapons may not fire in that direction. weapons mounted in the shield arm may not fire unless the shield covers one of the two side arcs, then can the weapons fire forward only. once the shield is destroyed, all weapons can be fired normaly. the shield cannot be ejected due to the bracing nessassary to hold the shield in place under fire.
|
Cray
04/02/02 06:09 PM
12.91.138.111
|
>shields maximum armour tonnage is 20% of the mechs mass. (ie 50 ton mech can have 2.5 tons of armour).
20% of a 50-ton mech is 10 tons. 5% of a 50-ton mech is 2.5 tons. Which did you mean?
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
|
Nightward
04/02/02 06:13 PM
203.134.12.8
|
I posted something similar a while ago. I had Shields being counted towards a 'Mech's Cargo allowance if they were added after designing the 'Mech, or towards total tonnage if added during construction If added in construction, the Shield occupied one Critical per ton it weighed. A Shield provided 8 points of armour per ton, but could not weigh more than 10% of a 'Mech's total tonnage. The Shield protected the arm and two other locations on the 'Mech, specified in the Movement phase. Ordinarily these would be the adjacent Torso and Leg, but other locations could be chosen. Any damage normally taken to that location would be applied to the shield. A 'Mech could not fire any weapons in the location protected by the Shield. The 'Mech could make a 'Shield Bash' that inflicted an extra 50% damage as though it were punching. 'Mechs using a Shield must have all Arm actuators functioning; a Shoulder hit locks the shield over its last protected locations. Protecting the Head with the shield adds a +2 modifier to all rolls, including ejection.
Yea, verily. Let it be known far and wide that Nightward loathes MW: DA. Indeed, it is with the BURNING ANIMUS OF A THOUSAND SUNS that he doth rage against it with.
|
Karagin
04/02/02 10:36 PM
63.173.170.129
|
I have seen similar rules for shields in Future Wars Fanzine and in Mecha Press, more or less what you are suggesting they do as well.
The only problem is the weapons are firing faster then the mech can react...since you can't side step incoming fire, the shield won't have time to be used to block the attack...
Now in a Solaris style fight where things are more tonned down so to speak, and the fights can be set where no long range weapons work etc...then I could see a lot of use for this, but on the normal battlefield I don't see it doing anything that would warrant it's use.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
|
Cray
04/03/02 07:45 AM
204.245.128.3
|
>The only problem is the weapons are firing faster then the mech can react...since you can't side step incoming fire, the shield won't have time to be used to block the attack...
You point the shield at the attacker before he shoots.
The problem arises when more than one attacker makes an appearance: who do you point the shield at?
Shields disappeared from the modern battlefield due to their lack of utility against firearms and weight. Neither concerns a mech (much). I can see some utility in shields to add a bit of survivability to defenders, or attackers going against well dug in defenders. A few extra tons of armor to soak up those long range shots would be nice.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
|
Nightmare
04/03/02 09:06 AM
194.251.240.107
|
Even better for the defenders who can only stand and shoot
at the charging enemies.
Advice for Evil Overlords:
My legions of terror will be trained in basic marksmanship. Any who cannot learn to hit a man-sized target at 10 meters will be used for target practice.
|
Cray
04/03/02 09:57 AM
204.245.128.3
|
Hey...shields would be GREAT for defenders who want to avoid movement-related targeting penalties. Shields let them survive those volleys that benefit from the immobile target bonus against them.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
|
Nightmare
04/03/02 11:34 AM
194.251.240.107
|
You don`t get a bonus to hit for Immobile Target unless the target is shut down or the MechWarrior is unconscious.
Or so I thought?
Advice for Evil Overlords:
My legions of terror will be trained in basic marksmanship. Any who cannot learn to hit a man-sized target at 10 meters will be used for target practice.
|
Cray
04/03/02 11:52 AM
204.245.128.3
|
Oops. I see immobile targets (beyond hexes and buildings) so rarely I'm not sure.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
|
Karagin
04/03/02 12:09 PM
63.173.170.69
|
But how do you know what he is going to fire and where it will hit???
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
|
Cray
04/03/02 12:32 PM
204.245.128.3
|
(Note: I am sorta assuming body shields in this discussion. )
To answer your question: Probably about the same way players know which arc they're firing from and which column of the hit location chart(s) to use. Or the same way human shield men have always chosen how to protect themselves:
"Bad guy over there. He's probably going to shoot me. I'll move my shield between him and me."
In the cases where one (1) enemy's fire can come from several directions (like an Atlas, which is capable of IDF and direct fire), obviously the shield user needs to make a decision about what worries him most and compromise his protection a bit - uncover his legs to better protect his head, for example.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
|
Karagin
04/03/02 12:37 PM
63.173.170.69
|
Even so the sheild can stop one or two hits as written by most who come up with the idea, and then it's gone...
To me this seems to be more of a Solaris weapon, like the Buzzsaws and such...I would rather use tress and such as LOS blockers and modifers then a shield...
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
|
NathanKell
04/03/02 12:51 PM
24.44.238.62
|
Quite true.
Shields, IMO, work only when either (in order of importance):
1. They have a higher damage resistance (i.e. harder to penetrate) than the shielded thing.
2. They have a higher damage capacity than the shielded thing
In Battletech, the first is meaningless (as penetration isn't modeled) and the second is, like you said, not a terribly good reason (unless you *really* want that extra 16-30pts). Although, actually, 40pts for a 50 tonner is nothing to sneeze at...
-NathanKell, BT Space Wars
Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear.
Thomas Jefferson |
Bob_Richter
04/03/02 01:10 PM
134.121.247.162
|
Use it to cover your head against GR volleys while you close with that disgusting Gausszilla monstrosity.
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter
Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
|
Cray
04/03/02 01:13 PM
204.245.128.3
|
>Even so the sheild can stop one or two hits as written by most who come up with the idea, and then it's gone...
This design isn't like most. It can represent up to 5 tons of armor (for 100-ton mechs).
Quite useful, IMO. It lets outnumbered combatants ignore some attackers while dealing with others.
A little...cinematic, something a Solaris warrior would come up with...but potentially quite practical.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
|
Cray
04/03/02 01:14 PM
204.245.128.3
|
Nice one. It does provide head coverage, doesn't it? Better than a cowl from some directions.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
|
Karagin
04/03/02 02:20 PM
63.173.170.212
|
Right and given the rules on cargo and carrying would not this extra 5 tons slow the mech down more?
Personally I would trade the shield off for any number of lasers and heat sinks...better use out them in the long run...
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
|
Cray
04/03/02 03:33 PM
204.245.128.3
|
>Right and given the rules on cargo and carrying would not this extra 5 tons slow the mech down more?
Hmm. Mechs can carry 10% of their tonnage without penalty, right? Or am I thinking of lifting rules?
Anyway, unless this gets forbidden in the shield rules, I'd design the shield's mass into the mech's tonnage to begin with. None of this carrying cargo stuff - the shield cannot be jettisoned, so I might as well count it as regular, rather than carried, equipment. Give a mech endosteel and a shield and you have the same tonnage as a normal internal structure. Sounds worthwhile starting around 40 tons.
>Personally I would trade the shield off for any number of lasers and heat sinks...better use out them in the long run...
I can see that, especially on light mechs where (ooo, ahh) you might only get an extra ton of armor out of the shield.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
|
Karagin
04/03/02 03:36 PM
63.173.170.101
|
And using Endo on a little mech you can get more armor to start with out using the shield idea...
Shield, along with MOST physcial weapons (swords, buzzsaws, etc...) belong on Solaris not the real battlefields of the Inner Sphere.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
|
Cray
04/03/02 03:42 PM
204.245.128.3
|
>And using Endo on a little mech you can get more armor to start with out using the shield idea...
It's not hard to max out the armor on a light mech. A shield means you can put on even more, easily beyond the normal limit. Imagine a 20-ton mech with 5 tons of armor. Why, it could...okay, it could still die horribly if it bumped into anything bigger than a medium laser. 
But another 3-5 tons of armor on already max armored heavy and assault mechs is nothing to sneeze at, especially when you can guarantee that 35 out of 36 shots from one direction will hit those 3-5 tons of armor before anything else.
As for shields belonging only in the Solaris Arenas...I take it you're not a Gundam fan?
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
|
Karagin
04/03/02 03:46 PM
63.173.170.101
|
Given that the frame of the lights according to the rules can't support the extra weight to start with...how is the shield being added to an arm going to by pass that? I would think it would over balance the mech...
As for Gundam, it's cool, but it's not Battletech. To me these things are more for show or crowd appeasment then really giving anything major to the mechs. Mechs are not knights out jousting for the favor of the local princess, they are suppose to be glorified walking tanks...
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
|
Cray
04/03/02 03:56 PM
204.245.128.3
|
>Given that the frame of the lights according to the rules can't support the extra weight to start with...
What extra weight? I'm thinking of mounting the shields as integral equipment - 1 less medium laser for a 20-ton mech.
I can entirely see your point about the shields being out of sorts with BT's "flavor."
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
|
Karagin
04/03/02 03:57 PM
63.173.170.101
|
Even mounted on hard point to the light mech's structure, would not the extra appendage off balance the mech, thus taxing the gyro and the pilot?
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
|
NathanKell
04/03/02 04:14 PM
24.44.238.62
|
Not if it's built into the mech *at construction* and thus the gyro, control software, etc. is *built* to accept it.
Which is, I believe, what Cray is saying.
On the other hand, mechs can pick up discarded limbs and use them as clubs with no penalty, right? They're surely heavier than a shield...
Ignoring FAsics, though, you have a very good point.
-NathanKell, BT Space Wars
Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear.
Thomas Jefferson |
Diablo
04/04/02 04:50 PM
206.186.185.6
|
ops! my bad. it's 5% then.
as fr every one elses questions/arguments...
-I like the head covering Idea with the +2 modifier
-the shield is an intagral part of the mech. therefore there is un-balancing of the mech. and that includes omni's. you can stick a 15 ton gauss rifle in an arm and still have it balanced. the only time balance with weapons coes into play is when refitting in the field with techs.
-the shield was designed for Solaris type stuff but it has combat potential.
|