WOB Jihad....Spoilers....

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masdog5
08/29/02 09:56 PM
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'So doing anything to stay on top means that they too could have launched the same kind of attack that WoB is doing now... '

Unlike the WOB, I somehow get the feeling that up until operation scorpion, Comstar did care about its public relations, and doing said attack would have ended up in the destruction of their own technology.

By public relations, I mean that while they might have gotten their hands dirty, they most likely did it in a clean way. The deaths of the scientists in most cases wasnt done openly, because if it had been, they would have lost alot of business and would have had to deal with seizure of their equiptment by the houses and loss of business. The attack on the NAIS was disguised, IIRC, as an attack by Laio's Death Commandos so the Davions wouldnt know Comstar was behind it. Like I said, I havent read the comstar sb, so this is merely speculation.
NathanKell
08/29/02 10:07 PM
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Blake's was.
Toyama's wasn't.

Toyama succeeded Blake, and therefore had the last laugh.

I point you to: (emphasis added)
(from the history of the Minnesota Tribe)
In reply to:


Primus Toyama seemed to hold the Inner Sphere firmly in his grasp when a threat to his dreams suddenly appeared from beyond the Periphery. The attack of the Minnesota tribe on the Combine worlds of Svelvika and Trondheim in 2825 shook ComStar as much as the Draconis Combine. Proceedings of the First Circuit indicate that Toyama believed the attack was the vanguard of Kerensky's return with the Star League Army, a belief supported by reports that this unknown military unit possessed brand-new BattleMechs and used combat tactics similar to those of the SLDF. If the self-exiled Star League troops had returned, it would spell an end to the prophesy of Blake [read: Toyama] and the future of ComStar.
The First Circuit responded by dispatching a dozen diplomatic envoy vessels to the Periphery area surrounding the Combine. These ships were charged with the mission of establishing and opening diplomatic relations with the mysterious Minnesota Tribe. For four months the JumpShips scoured the stars searching for some trace of the unit. They were able to follow the trail of the mysterious attackers into the deep Periphery toward the Federated Suns, but then all trace seemed to disappear near Valentina. Subsequent investigations by ROM failed to uncover further information on the attackers.

Who Were Those Masked Men?
Our operatives on Richmond managed to penetrate the Combine's investigation team studying the attacks by the so-called Minnesota Tribe. The only concrete evidence recovered thus far has been the body of one of the MechWarriors of the Tribe. The pilot was using a Lancelot BattleMech of exceptionally high quality.
Of great interest was the MechWarrior's uniform. The coolant suit was an enhanced version of an SLDF prototype that had yet to reach production when Kerensky's Exodus jumped from the Inner Sphere. Naturally, our agent sabotaged the suit so that its design would not fall into Combine hands.
Though the warrior carried no personal effects, his suit displayed two interesting patches. One was the outline of the former North American state of Minnesota, with the numbers "331" faintly stitched on it. Our archives indicate that the number and the symbol are similar to those used by the SLDF's 331st Royal BattleMech Division (The North American Division) that left the Inner Sphere with General Kerensky. The resemblance is strong but the symbols are not identical, indicating that the patch was new rather than an old one reworked.
The second patch was also revealing. It depicted a Terran Wolverine, white in color, with bloodied fangs. Our searches have revealed no correlation or connection to the designation of any known military unit meaning that it is new or reorganized unit.
We conclude that this unit is indeed a surviving element of Kerensky's Exodus. Though we cannot substantiate this with physical evidence, the above items recovered point to a strong connection with the Exodus fleet. It can also be assumed that this unit has an existing technological and manufacturing base. Unfortunately, it has been impossible to determine either the current location or the destination of these raiders.

-From a summary report to the First Circuit by ROM Precentor Emilio Travis, Minnesota Tribe Investigations, Archive File 222-802, ComStar Archives



-NathanKell, BT Space Wars
Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear.
Thomas Jefferson
NathanKell
08/29/02 10:09 PM
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Simple little summary:

the New ComStar is the Radical Splinter Group. The Word of Blake is true to the historical ComStar.
-NathanKell, BT Space Wars
Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear.
Thomas Jefferson
Karagin
08/29/02 10:10 PM
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You are correct that for the most part they used special Ops to deal with things, but they did use open force of arms against House Kurtia over the sister of the Cooridnator not being allowed to leave Luithen to join ComStar after she had signed on...

Even using spec ops to do the dirty works still tipped their hand from time to time with the other houses...they fought several spy vs spy wars with each of the houses at one time or another.

And given their use of terror attacks to crush the Terran's grown unhappiness with ComStar rule shows they would have done anything to stay on top...

I highly recommend your getting the CS SB....
Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
NathanKell
08/29/02 10:12 PM
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Not only was the Concord of Kapteyn designed to counter the FedCom, but it was expressly (read Warrior: En Garde) designed to quickly go toe to toe with it in an armageddon/MAD scenario, thus quickening "Blake [read: Toyama]'s Procephy" of a dark age and ComStar as the light-bringer.
After all, ComStar didn't want a Balance of Power, it wanted either mutual annihilation (2SW) or Dual Annihilation (FedCom vs. Concord).
Have no doubt that, if the 4th SW hadn't begun soon, ComStar would have triggered it.
-NathanKell, BT Space Wars
Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear.
Thomas Jefferson
NathanKell
08/29/02 10:14 PM
24.44.238.62

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Well, I'll say this for the topic: it's surely revitalized this lil' place!
-NathanKell, BT Space Wars
Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear.
Thomas Jefferson
Greyslayer
08/30/02 12:24 AM
63.12.141.31

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You know what really gets my goat about all this? Northwind Highlanders still look like they are around. Of all the pathetic, useless and completely moronic things they did on a singular planet scale before the devastation of Outreach was allow Loren Jaffrey to be a character ....

Greyslayer
Nightmare
08/30/02 01:06 AM
194.251.240.106

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Why would I say that? Well, because Germany found it wise to fight a war on several fronts, attacking Russia before they had dealt with the UK. They didn`t actually have the resources to pull it off, but thanks to the twisted nazi ideology and Hitler`s speeches, they thought so. IIRC, Hermann Göring, the Luftwaffe commander, wasn`t much of a commander either. Constantly promising Hitler more than he could deliver meant they lost a good deal of troops and opportunities. Göring, perhaps fearing a loss of status, said airlifting equipment to Stalingrad was possible. You all know how that ended.

I just want to point out that insane leadership doesn`t happen only in books. Also that it doesn`t automatically mean your faction can`t do a LOT of damage before someone stops you cold. The wobblies have money, they can build equipment, they can recruit men. Not enough to actually take over the IS, but apparently enough to make them THINK they can.
Advice for Evil Overlords:
My legions of terror will be trained in basic marksmanship. Any who cannot learn to hit a man-sized target at 10 meters will be used for target practice.
realworldviews
08/30/02 01:19 AM
24.98.65.7

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What, you didn't like Loren....?
Colonel Brian Davis
Gamers United
"Dreams become reality, for all who start off with a dream"
realworldviews
08/30/02 01:26 AM
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They really don't gain anything and all this story arc does is piss the fans off and lead to a lot upset customers...

Well the problem is that all of the upset customers are the "old-school" Classic Battletech players.
The new age MW:DA players aren't going to care.
They may even think that it's kinda cool that people got blown up with nukes.
Colonel Brian Davis
Gamers United
"Dreams become reality, for all who start off with a dream"
Countergod
08/30/02 01:28 AM
160.39.138.66

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***They may even think that it's kinda cool that people got blown up with nukes.***

This is a VERY (read sarcasm here) comforting idea, considering the fact that most people who play battle tech are teens, who are the "leaders of our future"
***Chemistry is like art. One wrong move can really ruin your day!***

To: All other empire leaders
From: Maj. NevLord Madman (Mad Man's Marauders [STB] )
Subject: Hi Neveron
Date Sent: 7/12/3222 12:50:00 AM

May i just point out u all suck
Maj. NevLord Madman
Karagin
08/30/02 01:30 AM
63.173.170.149

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Right so pissing off the older hard core fans is going to help sell product when possible new fans here the hard core fans complaining and gripping? Must be that new math at work here...
Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
realworldviews
08/30/02 01:30 AM
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This is a VERY (read sarcasm here) comforting idea, considering the fact that most people who play battle tech are teens, who are the "leaders of our future"

I agree, I totally agree...
Colonel Brian Davis
Gamers United
"Dreams become reality, for all who start off with a dream"
realworldviews
08/30/02 01:35 AM
24.98.65.7

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MATH?!?!
They still teach that in schools?
I thought it was just try your best and if you don't get the right answer, That's OK. ...
No 2+2 does not equal 5, but you tried your best so you get an A. (full of sarcasm)

I just don't think WK feels as much loyalty to us older players as they do this new group of players.
Colonel Brian Davis
Gamers United
"Dreams become reality, for all who start off with a dream"
BroCaptMaximus
08/30/02 01:41 AM
24.241.176.26

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The scariest thing here is that do away with the Dragoon with full knowledge that up coming XBOX game has the Dragoons in it...nice to see them wiping out something that couch potatos will link to the game...


That's fairly easy to explain actually. IIRC all five regiments of the Dragoons were seldom on Outreach at the same time. One or another of them was often off planet fulfilliing a contract. Therfore it would be very easy to say one or more of the regiments where off planet when those D@#N dirty Wobblies attacked. So as a matter of course it seems that a very large A$$ whipping would be headed the Wobblies way. So as dumb as it is for the Wobblies to have attacked the Dragoons in the first place I think it would be a definite indication of their mental instability that they didn't get all the Dragoons. That would DEFINATELY be a BIG MISTAKE!!! And I for one can't wait to play MechAssault so I can make them regret it for the rest of their misserable lives............BOTH SECONDS!!!!
Karagin
08/30/02 01:43 AM
63.173.170.149

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I think you are correct but we can hope that, that kind of thinking changes...eventually.
Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
realworldviews
08/30/02 01:45 AM
24.98.65.7

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Yea... there's always hope...
Colonel Brian Davis
Gamers United
"Dreams become reality, for all who start off with a dream"
Countergod
08/30/02 01:45 AM
160.39.138.66

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I still refuse to play AD&D, much less D&D 3E. I have a dying copy of the origional D&D rules
***Chemistry is like art. One wrong move can really ruin your day!***

To: All other empire leaders
From: Maj. NevLord Madman (Mad Man's Marauders [STB] )
Subject: Hi Neveron
Date Sent: 7/12/3222 12:50:00 AM

May i just point out u all suck
Maj. NevLord Madman
realworldviews
08/30/02 01:48 AM
24.98.65.7

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Personally I am not even going to try to figure out the factions they are using in MW:DA.
Steel Wolves, Spirit Cats, Dragons Fury etc. Whatever.
Colonel Brian Davis
Gamers United
"Dreams become reality, for all who start off with a dream"
Karagin
08/30/02 01:48 AM
63.173.170.149

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Even if they do use that reasoning or something close to it, we all know how the Dragoons will react since like when Janos's brother killed Jousha and the dependants during the Marik Civil War, the Dragoons will be pissed...

While attacking the Dragoons is one thing, it's the use of NBC weapons to do it that seems to be pissing a lot of folks off...

Hey at the rate the Wobbies are going with the nukes I wouldn't be surpries if we don't see rules for nukes in the game here real soon...
Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
realworldviews
08/30/02 01:50 AM
24.98.65.7

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I'm with ya man, I won't even let friends bring it into my house.
Could you change a game anymore and still call it the same name.
Colonel Brian Davis
Gamers United
"Dreams become reality, for all who start off with a dream"
realworldviews
08/30/02 01:57 AM
24.98.65.7

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Sorry but this Jihad is a very weak plot and seems to be more of a house cleaning event to make way for the tying in of MWDA.

The Jihad and the last few novels.
Colonel Brian Davis
Gamers United
"Dreams become reality, for all who start off with a dream"
BroCaptMaximus
08/30/02 01:58 AM
24.241.176.26

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I probally haven't been playing as long as some (only 11 years), but I have read every novel that has been written and have followed along avidly as the Battletech story has progressed. I am outraged with what they are doing to my beloved Battletech universe. It's as bad as what they have done to my Star Wars universe with those D@#N Yuuzhon Vong. I think the WoB Jihad was a dumb idea but I was willing to ignore the stupidity of the situation and see where it lead; but nuking Outreach and virtually wiping out Wolf's Dragoons is going TOO FAR!!!!

In your opinion this Jihad is a better story development device than the clans. In my opinion it is an utter travisty, that serves only to alienate many of the "old-school" players. The Clans may have "unbalanced" the game (sarcasm there by the way) in your opinion, but at least they weren't as dishonorable as the WoB scum. I would much rather fight a Clan warrior with superior weapons and a code of honor on the field of battle than be nuked from orbit but a spinelss, cowardly, bunch of religious fanatics. The Clans at least gave the Inner Sphere a fighting chance by meeting them in honorable combat and as a result the canon units that eveyone is so attached too; GDL, Dragoons, Kell Hounds, Revenants, etc. where able to survive. The WoBblies didn't even give the Dragoons a fighting chance they just nuked them.

BroCaptMaximus
08/30/02 02:02 AM
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I agree!!

Any D@#N foll can push a button and launch a nuke. I wouldn't be nearly so irate if the WoBblies had actually fought like real men. . . . on the battlefield face to face with those they intend to kill.

Even if they outnumbered the Dragoons 10 to 1 if they fought them on the ground . . . honorably . . .I wouldn't mind. It really rankles that the greatest and most powerful Mercenary force in the IS was laid low with no chance to defend themselves.
BroCaptMaximus
08/30/02 02:04 AM
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I think I would fall into that 5% then.
Karagin
08/30/02 02:08 AM
63.173.170.149

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I agree...even if they fought the Dragoon fleet and won and then landed and then fought the Dragoons in combat and used a single nuke to say take out Harlech or the main Blackwell plant that would have been fine...but to nuke the planet almost into thermonuclear winter is nuts.

I know I am preaching to the quirer but this is a really silly and shallow way to remove older units from the game...wonder if MWDA will have rules for nukes since BT doesn't.
Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
BroCaptMaximus
08/30/02 02:16 AM
24.241.176.26

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Maybe so . . . maybe no. I like to think of myself as "old school" (11 years read all novels) and all this new stuff does is piss me off. I can accept that they needed to do something new or else the Btech world would stagnate, the whole Dark Age think isn't what I don't like. I HATE the dumb A$$ way they did it. A WoB Jihad!!! Does WhizKids think we're all 8 years old or what? Nobody in there right mind is gonna buy that explanation. I guess the problem is that I'm older than the new target audience (cluless teenagers and spoiled little kids all of which have too much money); therefore I'm more skeptical and hence I have a problem swallowing this tripe. I think they could have come up with something a bit more plausible.

But what really makes me blow my top is the senseless destruction of Outreach with nukes. The nukes are very dishonorable; and it justs proves what a bunch of gutless cowards the WoBblies are.

I have one question though:

What purpose does it serve to destroy Outreach and the Dragoons in this fashion?


In my estimation it accomplishes nothing of strategic importance, in fact it causes them more problems cause I doubt they got all the Dragoons in the attack. The new MechAssault game for Xbox hints at this. So now the WoBblies have a pissed off group of elite mercenatries after them. And that can't be good for the WoBblies.

Seriously though I don't think the destruction of Outreach does anything for the new story line, all it does is piss of "old school" players like myself; and therefore it hurts future sells of WhizKids products.
BroCaptMaximus
08/30/02 02:20 AM
24.241.176.26

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Sure why not. While they're at it they can make a green, regular and elite nuclear missile launcher that way they can sell more product; cause all the "new players" (a.k.a. youngun's with too much money) will wanna catch 'em all........oops...... I meant collect them all.

D@#N Pokemon. They've ruined the world.
Nightmare
08/30/02 02:20 AM
194.251.240.106

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First off, I thought the Dragoons need to go. Or at least get beaten to pieces. They were cool way back when they arrived, and up to ~3050 or so. The 3050+ bullshit with clantech mechs, vat-grown warriors and an incredible Sphere-wide intelligence service just didn`t strike me as right. Back in the Tales of the Black Widow Company they`re willing to fight over two technicians. That doesn`t look like a unit with the know-how to do anything about advanced tech And they`ve been destroyed a few times since then. Where did they hide their army of Clan-certified techs, engineers and scientists? Oh, they were mothballed on the Warships they left hidden?


-The WoBblies didn't even give the Dragoons a fighting chance they just nuked them.

Effective, yes? Why waste several regiments of troops you`ll need elsewhere just to kill the Dragoons? Besides, the victor writes the history books, so why would the wobblies care about the methods they use?

Advice for Evil Overlords:
My legions of terror will be trained in basic marksmanship. Any who cannot learn to hit a man-sized target at 10 meters will be used for target practice.
Karagin
08/30/02 02:26 AM
63.173.170.149

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Needing to go or to be toned down is two different things...needing to go so badly that they are nuked from orbit is a cheesy and really silly way to deal with them.

As you said the Dragoons had been beaten down hard before and they have lost a lot...why not have that happen again, while repeative at least a hard fought set of battles against the attack Wobbies would have be more expectiable then nukes...

But I guess it's the coolness factor and easy of nukes that went into the thinking here...why worry about a huge set of battles when a couple hundred nukes and biochem weapons can do the same job and make the story easier to forget later on...

Maybe it's me but nukes really don't have a place in this game...
Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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