tgsofgc
11/15/03 02:16 PM
67.4.192.23
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Well the point of this is to return the machine gun to what it is suppose to be, a primitive (by battletech standards) weapon primarily for dealing with unarmored opponents (read as: infantry).
These new machine gun rules have the weapon deal variable damage, a very strange thing for battletech, based on the type of unit you are attacking.
The type modifiers are as follows:
Mech = 4
Armor (vehicles, battle armor, protomechs) = 2
Infantry (unarmored) = 0
In normal firing mode the machine gun has the following stats:
Damage: 1D6 - target type modifier (note results less than 0 = 0)
Heat: 0
Ammunition Usage = Whatever the 1D6 roll was, even if you dealt no damage
Short: 1
Medium: 2
Long: 3
If playing with Maxtech rules for rapid fire mode treat the following as rapid fire mode. As listed in Maxtech rapid fire mode must be set before battle and can't be changed during.
Damage: 1D6 -1/2(unit type modifier)
Heat: Is equal to the damage dealt
Ammo Usage: Is equal to the result of the 1D6 roll +3
These rules help to reduce the presence of tons of machine guns and again give players a reason to use small lasers. Tell me if you think these are too harsh...
I find that 'pinpoint' accuracy during a bombing run increases proportionally with the amount of munitions used.
-Commander Nathaniel Klepper,
Avanti's Angels, 3058
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tgsofgc
11/16/03 12:53 AM
67.4.203.232
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Well I tested out these optionals myself in some basic games with some 3025 mechs with mgs and variety of othe units. The rules appear to do what I wanted them to, namely make the mg primarily an ai weapon, unfortunately this was a bit of overbalancing. Playing the rules as I made them, made the mgs practically useless especially if there was no infantry present (as there wasn't after about turn 4). If you like these rules, I suggest at least this modification
Rapid Fire Mode:
Damage: (1D6 - Unit type modifier)x2
Heat: (The 1D6 rolled above)/2 [round less than a 1/2 down and above or equal to the 1/2 up]
Ammo Usage: (The 1D6 rolled above) +4
This should make mgs set to rapid fire a bit more deadly and give units with them a reason to have them, well other than ai. Though this may be a bit of an over correction again (when will I ever learn), but I'll test it. For anyone curious:
Max damage vs Mechs: 4
Max damage vs Armor: 8
Max damage vs Infantry: 12
Average damage vs Mechs: 1 (approx 0.99999)
Average damage vs Armor: 3 (approx 3.33333)
Average damage vs Infantry: 7 (approx 6.35?)
Not sure about all those damages but pretty close I think.
I find that 'pinpoint' accuracy during a bombing run increases proportionally with the amount of munitions used.
-Commander Nathaniel Klepper,
Avanti's Angels, 3058
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widowmaker
11/17/03 04:15 AM
24.171.104.57
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Just to comment on your 'average' damages, it needs to be pointed out that those are the 'mean' averages, and can be slightly misleading. For example, the mean average damage to 'Mechs is indeed 1 (exactly), but 4 out of the 6 possible outcomes result in 0 damage. So 2/3 of the time, no damage is dealt.
Here's how the averages break down:
'Mechs: mean - 1; mode - 0; median - 0.
Vehicles: mean - 3.33; mode - 0; median - 3.
Infantry: mean - 7; mode - none; median - 7.
Mean average is derived by dividing the sum of the set by the number of members in the set.
Mode average is the value that occurs most often in the set.
Median average is derived by ordering the set from least to greatest (or vice versa), then taking the value at the midpoint of the set. If the midpoint is between two values, the median is the mean average of those two values.
Sorry to break out the statistics speech, but I get picky about numbers. Curse of being a Math God, I guess. 
widowmaker
What's your dice fetish?
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Silenced_Sonix
11/20/03 03:39 PM
168.209.97.34
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Thought on those MG's: how about treating them as an LRM10? You roll To-Hit to see if your salvo hits, and then on the '10' column for the Missile table to see how many bullets actually hit the target. Wouldn't that solve the ammo problem a little? I mean, one salvo takes your ammo (0.5 tons) from 100 to 90, and your damage average for firing so many bullets should be relatively okay. Dunno, I don't quite see the purpose of a machinegun (which is meant to fire fast and continuously) firing only one bullet per turn... Also a nice way of spraying the 'Mech with small damage clusters, ideal when it's armor is low. Dunno, what you guys think?
Evolve or Die
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tgsofgc
11/21/03 02:08 AM
67.4.202.167
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interessting idea with the missile chart... Unfortunately I think you missed that I was trying to cut back the machine guns effectiveness vs armor and mechs. Namely the small laser designed to attack mechs doesn't really offer any advantages over the machine gun because as long as you are mounting multiple you save weight.
Allow me to refine your "lrm
style machine gun idea by my own terms, please forgive me if I blow it.
Machine Gun
Damage: Roll on LRM-5 (treat each hit as a seperate damage group)
Heat: 0
Ammo Use: 5
Double Mode:
Damage: Roll on LRM-10 (treat each as seperate damage groups)
heat: number that hit
Ammo used: 10
Variants:
Similar to my target type modifier but instead it modifies the "number of missile hits roll"
Mech: -2
Armor: 0
Infantry: +2
I find that 'pinpoint' accuracy during a bombing run increases proportionally with the amount of munitions used.
-Commander Nathaniel Klepper,
Avanti's Angels, 3058
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widowmaker
11/21/03 02:35 AM
24.171.106.63
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Why would the heat depend on the number that hit? If 10 shots fire, the heat will be the same no matter how many hit. Normally I'd say double the heat, but that would be silly here. How's this:
Machine Gun - Normal Mode
Damage - 2
Heat - 0
Ammo Use - 1
Machine Gun - Rapid Fire Mode
Damage - Roll on LRM-5 (divide into 2 point clusters) [for continuity's sake]
Heat - 2
Ammo Use - 5
A To-Hit roll of 2 or 3 results in a jam. Resolve per RAC rules.
Machine Gun - Double Rapid Fire Mode
Damage - Roll on LRM-10 (divide into 2 point clusters) [again, continuity]
Heat - 5
Ammo Use - 10
A To-Hit roll of 4 results in a jam (as above), while a 2 or 3 results in a UAC-type failure, rendering the weapon useless until repaired.
The heat increases unevenly as a result of the weapon being fired faster than intended, thus overloading the cooling mechanism. The 2 point clusters are just my nostalgia for clasic MGs. The jamming and failure only seem logical to me. Note that the odds of a jam are the same for both Rapid Fire modes (3 in 36), and the odds between jamming and failing on Double mode are also equal (again, 3 in 36).
widowmaker
What's your dice fetish?
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tgsofgc
11/21/03 02:43 AM
67.4.202.167
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Yup I forgot of jamming makes sense to me
your right the heat seems stupid when it is pointed out, 5 should be alright.
I made the points spread far for a couple reasons:
1. little bullets being sprayed in my mind your shooting "lots of little holes all over whatever you hit.
2. So it does more damage to infantry ie each one kills a trooper.
I find that 'pinpoint' accuracy during a bombing run increases proportionally with the amount of munitions used.
-Commander Nathaniel Klepper,
Avanti's Angels, 3058
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Silenced_Sonix
11/21/03 02:04 PM
168.209.97.34
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Glad you guys liked the idea, you can send me my Nobel prize by mail 
You guys think it would be a viable alternative rules set? I've never really used MG's yet (being a n00b and all), but something just came to mind: firing ten shots, at two points damage each? Divided into five-point clusters, that still equals a PPC hit, which IMO is a bit heavy for a mere MG. Why not drop dmage a bit then, if only perhaps vs. 'Mechs? Imagine getting your entire head's armor blown off by one measly MG salvo? Remember, 'Mechs are supposed to be tough, and blowing its head away with a normal MG doesn't quite fit in with that image, does it?
(if someone already mentioned that, just ignore me)
Evolve or Die
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tgsofgc
11/21/03 02:21 PM
67.4.202.225
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the roll on missile hit will limit it somewhat
LRM-10 roll of 6 is only 6 hits (6 damage)
also if you use the optional to hit missile modifiers I suggested in the reply,
mech : -2
armor: 0
Infantry: +2
it would further reduce the damage versus mechs. Also in double fire mode the combination of the range, the heat (5 as per widow), and ammo helps balance it (i think...).
don't worry the nobel prize is in the mail, should be 5-6 weeks, warning shipping is COD.
I find that 'pinpoint' accuracy during a bombing run increases proportionally with the amount of munitions used.
-Commander Nathaniel Klepper,
Avanti's Angels, 3058
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Silenced_Sonix
11/21/03 03:09 PM
168.209.97.34
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Lah, good 'un that...
Hey, isn't there some IRC channel where we can talk BattleTech? Would speed things up a bit, I think.
Evolve or Die
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tgsofgc
11/21/03 10:48 PM
67.4.198.196
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im more of urbanmech style communicator anyhow
I find that 'pinpoint' accuracy during a bombing run increases proportionally with the amount of munitions used.
-Commander Nathaniel Klepper,
Avanti's Angels, 3058
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