tgsofgc
12/02/03 01:19 AM
67.4.198.250
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Well I was playing around with designing some mechs for underwater operations, and I realized it was nearly pointless due to how much better subs our. I understand this from a lore point of view and what have you but it isn't very encouraging for specialist mechs so here are some alternate ideas on the subject and new tech.
Specialized Design:
Mechs can be made to operate specifically in environments that would normally prove extremely hazardous (namely under water and in the void of space). When designed as such mechs have too options:
1. Specialized frame. The specialized frame emplies the entire lay out of the inside of the mech has been optimized to avoid breeches and flooding. A mech with a specialized frame has internal structure that weighs, and costs, twice what it normally would (note this is cumulative with special materials, such that an Endo Steel Specialize Underwater Frame for a 55 tonner costs: (55x1,600)x2 = 176,000 and weighs 5.5 tons (5.5 x0.5 x2)).
2. Dense Armor: Dense armor doesn't actually eliminate the chances of breeches it just greatly reduces them, by overlapping the units armor thickly over vulnerable areas. Units mounting dense armor may not mount any other specialized forms of armor, and it weighs twice normal armor (1 ton per 8 pts). When a unit has Dense Armor it is only breeched on breech checks 12 on 2D6 (as apposed to 10), also the location does not automatically breech when all the armor has been eliminated instead continue to check for breeches at 8+ on 2D6. Dense Armor costs the same amount as standard armor per ton though offers half the protection.
Movement underwater for mechs is haphazard at best. Spending 4mp per hex bites, and he who tries to manuever in 2 dimensions versus opponents able to manuever in 3 will almost certainly loose. Here are some revised rules:
1. Unit Stacking. Not sure this was ever covered but in deep waters units capable of sustaining themselves above others can stack in a single hex. For instance a submarine can stack above a level 2 mech as long as the water is at least depth 3.
2. Underwater Mech Propulsion. Mechs can use a special peice of equipment similar to the propulsion systems of submarines in place of jump jets. A mech can mount up to their walk mp in these Sub MP jets, and may not mount both sub MP jets and jump jets. Sub MP jets generate no heat for movement unlike jump jets. A unit with sub MP may move like a submarine, including changing level, each level change requires 1 sub mp, also to remain at a level or "hover" in the water requires 2 mp. If a unit remained at a specific level at the end of its last turn it starts that turn at that level, if the unit doesn't use Sub MP it must make a piloting skill roll on the first hex it moves to avoid a fall of the approriate number of levels. Sub MP is only useful when the unit is completely submerged. Sub MP Jets weigh the same as jump jets, and require 1 critical in either the legs or torsos per jet. Sub MP Jets cost the same as Jump Jets.
3. Under Water Walking. Mechs not willing to forgo jump capabilities may still specialize their leg actuators to deal with a watery environment. Note this specialization doesn't require any additional weight but occupies all the criticals in the mechs legs (4 for bipeds, 8 for quads). The effect is the mech can move underwater as it could normally above land (1mp per hex) though it must stay on the ground which may produce other penalties (such as for mushy sand). If any of these criticals are struck the specialized actuators are disabled and require repairs (the mech requires 4mp per hex as normal underwater) also all disabilities remain. When moving above water a mech with these actuators has both its Run MP and Walk MP reduced by 1 MP. These specialized actuators Cost the same amount per critical as a Lower Leg Actuator.
Specialized Torpedo guidance. While LRMs enjoy a vast arrayof special guidance systems (Artemis, Narc, Semi-Guided/TAG) Torpedos enjoy few of these. To compensate I made an affordable and slightly complicated "guided by wire" style guidance systems.
To mount these Guided torpedos the mech muist mount special equipment that follows all the rules of an Artemis system, tonnage, criticals, required on all launchers of a type, etc. These guidance systems offer a +2 bonus to the number of torpedos that hit the target like artemis. A salvo launched from one of these specialy guided Torpedo Launchers may trace LOS through any water hexes of level 1 (but it must take the shortest route possible). If the unit wouldn't normally have LOS it requires a spotter as per normal missile rules. The result is torpedos that can be launched from a delta bed and follow a twisting river to a target standing in the river who is spotted by a land force. Note when striking mechs in Level 1 water use the Kick table. also please note these torpedos require 1 mp/range to change depth (they start at depth 2 when fired from a mech'c torsos/head/arms or level 1 from a mech's legs). This basically also defines a type of rule for 3d attack paths, though there is a definate prefference for traveling in 2d, as you gain fewer meters per range when travleing up/down in depth.
Well thats that hope it may be useful, for those who have been waiting to have a fair fight with a sub. Or want to have their PCs fight some "Aqua Mechs" in a deep lake.
I find that 'pinpoint' accuracy during a bombing run increases proportionally with the amount of munitions used.
-Commander Nathaniel Klepper,
Avanti's Angels, 3058
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Cray
12/02/03 07:24 AM
147.160.1.5
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BT Historical Factoid...well, Rumor: I've heard "Aquatech" was supposed to follow up ye olde skool BT/Citytech/Aerotech back in the 80s, but it never got off the drawing board.
Anyway, I like what you've got here.
My one suggestion would be to replace "dense armor" with MaxTech's "hardened armor." Hardened armor virtually fits what you have described for dense armor.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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Silenced_Sonix
12/02/03 12:27 PM
168.209.97.34
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Hardend Armor also decrease the speed of your 'Mech? Or is it the Piloting SKill of the Warrior that is penalized? If it doesn slow you down, wouldn't that hamper the 'Mech in aquatic theaters where movement is already uber-slow?
Wait, question: wouldn't a 'Mech build up a bit of a momentum when running underwater? That way, you could move at a certain MP for one or two turns, and then get more MP's once you're "on speed", sorta like vehicles?
Evolve or Die
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tgsofgc
12/02/03 03:31 PM
67.4.201.43
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Hardened Armor is a lot like what I described except for the following things:
1. It absorbs more damage.
2. Piloting skill penalty (-1, i think)
3. It reduces walk mp by 1 and recalculates, mine theoretically doesn't penalize the rounded speeds as much. [ex. 4/6 becomes a 3/5 with either system but a 9/14 becomes a 8/13 with mine and a 8/12 with hardened]
On the building up momentum, underwater travel as far as I think Battletech is modeling it with the 4mp per hex is hampered by the drag or resistance of the water. Mening that you accelerate slower and have a much slower critical velocity by spending the same force as on land. Imagine falling through the air or falling through jello. Each way if you will be accelerating (at least for a short while), and will eventually hit some critical velocity where you stop accelerating (due to the resistance or drag on your body), but you probally no that falling through the jello would be much less threatening (well except for suffocation).
I should probally change the Dense Armor to be an expansion of hardened armor rules. (Though I don't like the fact they get all that extra armor, it still seems fairly balanced.)
Gosh I would have loved to see an Aquatech game back then. Can you imagine all the cool stuff they could have put in it. Explosive decompression for sealed complexes, multilayered maps, and a few more hex types (such as muck).
I find that 'pinpoint' accuracy during a bombing run increases proportionally with the amount of munitions used.
-Commander Nathaniel Klepper,
Avanti's Angels, 3058
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Silenced_Sonix
12/02/03 03:40 PM
168.209.97.34
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Any more complex, and you'd be able to turn it into a computer game.
Wait, that just sounds weird somehow...
Anyhoo, sounds cool, keep up the good work.
Evolve or Die
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Vicen_Korel
12/03/03 02:18 AM
66.38.6.40
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I got the solaris: outreaches expansion, it has rules for a water arena. It also carried some of my favorite inner sphere mechs, the copper head, and the werewolf. if you would like me to share the info in it just let me know, i'm not typing it in unless someone wants it
"Nothing sends your love like an ER PPC"
--Vicen Korel
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tgsofgc
12/03/03 02:34 AM
67.4.203.249
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If there is anything new in it (other than the stuff from maxtech and BMR), I'd love to hear it...
Also what are these mechs?
I find that 'pinpoint' accuracy during a bombing run increases proportionally with the amount of munitions used.
-Commander Nathaniel Klepper,
Avanti's Angels, 3058
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Vicen_Korel
12/03/03 01:52 PM
66.38.4.159
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CPR-HD-002 Copper Head
30 ton solaris mech
Equipment Mass
Internal Structure 2.5
Engine Omin 150xl 3
walking 6
Running 9
Jumping 2
Heat Sinks 12(24) 2
Gyro 2
Cockpit 3
Armor Factor 80 4.5
head 3/9
CT 8/12/6
RLT 6/9/3
RLA 4/6
RLL 6/9
3 Med laser CT/RT/LT
Med pulse laser LA
SRM 4 RA
ammo RT
Small laser LA
Streak SRM 2 (os) H
Jump jets 2 LL/RL
I have a varient that drops the streak 2 os for case in the RT and more armor
WRW-LF-004 Werewolf
40 Tons Solaris Mech
Equipment Mass
Internal 4
Engine Nissan 200xl 5
walking 5
running 8
jumping 3
Heat Sinks 16(32) 6
Gyro 2
Cockpit 3
Armor 161 9
Head 3/12
CT 12/20/9
RLT 10/18/7
RLA 6/16
RLL 10/19
Machine gun 2 H/CT
ammo 200 RT
Med pulse laser LA
SRM 6 Ra
Ammo RT
Small pulse laser 2 LT/RT
Jump jet 2 RL/LL
on the fact that these mechs have some glaring typos, well i copied straight from the book
On the under water rules it says to see UNderwater operations pp 62-63 in the BattleTech Compendium. It also says to double all heat sink capacities. and says to see the Suppelmental Dueling Rules on page 51 Mech Duel Rules page 43 in the Solaris 7 Gamemaster's Book
Solaris: the reaches was produced by Fasa and it's model number is 1659 I believe this was for the Mechwarrior RPG
"Nothing sends your love like an ER PPC"
--Vicen Korel
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tgsofgc
12/03/03 04:23 PM
67.4.202.166
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What odd mechs, thanks for posting the info!
I find that 'pinpoint' accuracy during a bombing run increases proportionally with the amount of munitions used.
-Commander Nathaniel Klepper,
Avanti's Angels, 3058
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Vicen_Korel
12/04/03 10:41 PM
66.38.6.105
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No Prob.
The CopperHead actually works pretty well, with the mods i offered. The Werewolf is just a bigger version, doesn't do so good for it's weight. They where both designed as arena mechs, for the reaches on solaris 7. most of the arenas there are very crowded, and have vibrobombs, pit traps, and hidden acid pits all over them. 
"Nothing sends your love like an ER PPC"
--Vicen Korel
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