Silenced_Sonix
01/03/04 06:42 AM
168.209.97.34
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'Kay, here's something I thought of after playing a few games and consistantly running out of ammo for my bigger weapons.
Combat ReSupply Mechs
Class: Utility
Design: 2 legs only (with two fully articulated arms present - all four arm actuators per arm)
Owner: Clan or Sphere
Combat ReSupply Mechs (CRSM's for short) would be a way of prolonging an engagement almost indefinitaly (or at least as long as you have ammo available). The Mech is designed as an UtilityMech, with emphasis on saving both weight and internal space - Standard armor and composite IS is advised. The mech is then devoid of all weaponry except things like small lasers and MG's for area defense vs. light vehicles and infantry, while the rest of the internal space is taken up by the Cargo Pods available under the equipment list. These cargo bays (used to carry the ammo during the fight) can be placed only on the torso locations, and only Clan mechs may mount additional Cargo pods in their arms. Emphasis is placed on getting as many pods as possible into the design for the tonnage, which means that you often end with one or several open internal spots, but no free tonnage - light Ferro (Sphere) or standard Ferro (Clan) is then a good choice for armor. Additional equipment like a lifthoist (to increase lifting capability to half that of mech's tonnage) and/or a claw (physical weapon) may be mounted - their use will be explained later. Now, before the engagement, you simply select the ammo to be carried by the mech in these Cargo Pods (obvious one ton ammo per one Cargo Pod), as well as extra external cargo (ammo) to be carried into combat (here, the lifthoist is of obvious value, as a 60 ton CRSM can then carry 30 tons external cargo).
Lifting Rules:
- when external cargo weight is more than 1/4 of the mech's weight, apply a +1 Piloting modifier to all rolls
- if external cargo weight is 1/2 that of mech weight (only possible with lifthoist), mech cannot Sprint, and must make a Piloting Roll before Running that turn
- Inner Sphere BattleMechs (not CRSM's) may only have ammo bins in their torso locations reloaded, by both Sphere and Clan CRSM's
- Clan BattleMechs and OmniMechs (not CRSM's) may have only their torso locations reloaded by Sphere CRSM's, while Clan CRSM's may reload any bins in any location on a Clan BattleMech of OmniMech.
Transfering Ammo:
-CRSM must end Movement phase in hex behind mech targeted for resupply (called "Consumer" for explanationary purposes), the front of the CRSM facing the rear of the Consumer.
-at the end of that turn, after the last (Heat) phase, the Consumer now selects which locations it would like reloaded (like CT, LT, etc) and which bins in the torso to be reloaded with what. Only bins of similiar content can be reloaded - you cannot reloaded Guass slugs into a bin that carried LRM rounds for example. The CRSM now notes the designated ammo on the side of his record sheet - this is called the Transfer Ammo ("TransAm").
- during the next turn, neither the CRSM, nor the Consumer may move or torso twist. Both mechs may fire any weapons they have:
- Consumer: any weapon in the left, front or right arc (basically, everywhere except where the CRSM is)
- CRSM: any weapon in the left, back or right arc (everywhere except where the Consumer is)
- turrets may be rotated, but not fired if they would fire throught the CRSM or Consumer's hex, and not if a bin in the turret is being reloaded
- for gaming purposes, no weapon may draw from a bin designated for reload during the reload turn, as the ammo has already been removed, and the new ammo is not yet all there.
- again, at the end of the turn (after Heat phase), the CRSM must now make a Piloting SKill roll, with all applicable modifers. Additional modiers are as such:
- if CRSM has a lifthoist, apply a -1 modifer
- if all eight arm actuators ( 4 per arm) on the CRSM are undamaged, apply a -1 modifier
- for every weapon fired by the Consumer and the CRSM, apply a +1 modifer per wepaon (thus advisable to not fire a lot during the relaoding process)
- the next part is tricky, but bear with me:
(#) reloading bins in only 1 location:
- Success: all bins in location are reloaded
- Fail roll: all TransAM is lost
(##) reloading bins in two locations:
- Success: all ammo is transfered
- roll a 2: all the ammo from one of the reloaded locations end up on the ground and is lost
- Fail: all ammo is lost
- this trend is then continued on all locations: the ammo spills from one location if you roll equal, or less than the number of locations being reloaded, up untill five locations.
eg: 3 locs - spill on 2 or 3
4 locs - 2, 3, or 4
5 or more locs - 2, 3, 4 or 5
- the functionality of the Claw (physical weapon) is now used. For every claw present on the CRSM, reduce the number of locs being reloaded for spilling purposes by one. That way, if you're reloading 3 locs, one claw will reducing spilling to a roll of 2, while a second Claw will have no effect. For 4 locs, one Claw will spill on 2 or 3, while two claws will spill on only 2. This way, the Claws merely reduce the chance of spillage, but cannot remove it completely.
- if transfer is now finished, both mechs can move off the next turn (but would have counted as Immobile targets during the reload turn, with the obvious dangers of that)
Final notes:
- if the CRSM or the Consumer falls during the reload turn, all TransAm is lost automatically
- if, during the reload turn, the CRSM is shot in its frontal arc, or the Consumer in its rear arc, a chance of an ammo explosion occurs. To work this possibility out, roll 2D6:
- Sphere: ammo explosion on 8+
- Clan: ammo explosion on 10+
- for every 15 points of damage dealt to the CRSM or Consumer in those arcs, modify your roll by +1
-if an ammo explosion occurs, select the bin with the highest damage potential from the TransAm list and deal that damage to the CRSM and the Consumer both, using the Shots From Above table: 2/3 of the damage is dealt to the CRSM's front, while the rest (1/3) is dealt to the Consumer's rear armor.
- if an ammo explosion occured, deal the damage in normal 5-point clusters untill it has all been resolved. Then roll 2D6 again, with the same 8+/10+ target in mind. if you fail this roll again (ie, throw more than 8 or 10), another ammo explosion occurs. This chain explosion can continue for as long as there is ammo on the TransAm list, or untill you roll less than 8 or 10.
Phew, lots of typing......
OK, if you understand (or not), feel free to post questions, comments, ideas, tips, etc
Evolve or Die
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Diablo
01/03/04 11:31 AM
24.114.50.190
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so this RSM uses it's arms to transfer the ammo? or do cranes or something come out of the torso? and by the way, here's my prototype...
RSM-01A Light Resupply Mech
Chassis: Unknown
Power Plant: Unknown 120
Cruising Speed: 43
Maximum Speed: 64.5
Jump Jets: none
Jump Capacity: none
Armor: Unknown
Armament:
2 Small Lasers
Manufacturer: Unknown
Primary Factory: Unknown
Communications System: Unknown
Targeting and Tracking System: Unknown
Overview:
The light resupply mech. the first prototype model of the new
series of resupply mechs being tested for use on the field.
Capabilities:
The mechs first point is the lack of speed for a mech of this
size. mounting only a 120 rated engine. the composite structure of
this utility mech make it vulnerable if any shots were to penetrate
the mere 5 toms of standard armour. but this reduced protection and
the lack of engine size were to allow the mech 8 tons of ammunition
capacity. the RSM was given only minimal weapon protection, a pair of
small lasers mounted rear to be fired while reloading a mech. the
ammunition handling claws can also be used as a back up weapon in
very close quarters combat although this is mostly avoided.
Deployment:
so far only a handful of these have been made for testing in
various battlefield environmensts.
RSM-01A Light Resupply Mech
Technology Base: - Inner Sphere - Level 3 (Utility Mech)
Equipment Mass
Internal Structure: - Composite 3
Engine: 120 4
Walking MP: 4
Running MP: 6
Jumping MP: 0
Heat Sinks: 10 0
Gyro: 2
Cockpit: 3
Armor Factor: 80 5
Internal Armor
Structure Value
Head 3 9
Center Torso 10 9
Center Torso(rear) 4
R/L Torso 7 6
R/L Torso(rear) 4
R/L Arm 5 8
R/L Leg 7 11
Weapons and Ammo Location Critical Tonnage
Claw LA 2 4
Cargo Pod LT 4 4
Small Laser LT 1 0.5
Cargo Pod RT 4 4
Small Laser RT 1 0.5
Claw RA 2 4
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Vicen_Korel
01/03/04 07:38 PM
66.38.4.177
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an interesting idea, I would rather take and other mech with weapons than a reloader I think, but i tend to balance my mechs to duration fighting anyways. I would say that CASE should be a must for these mechs and instead of a piloting roll make them roll on the repair table in the Classic Battletech Master Rules. In mechwarrior four and Mechcommander 2 there are repair bays, and vehicles. Anyone ever see any rules for those?
"Nothing sends your love like an ER PPC"
--Vicen Korel
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wartang
01/03/04 11:55 PM
209.201.75.24
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wow you really thought this out didn't you
 props to you i mean it
this would really help out my saam
i love this game
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Ghost
01/04/04 01:29 PM
64.123.20.64
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According to the old 3026, there are rules in there for Repair Bays, both mobile and stationary. Pg 198 gives a lengthy overview of the repair bays. if you want that, let me know and I will post it. Otherwise, there are no other rules for Repair Bays. If you wanted to use it, I would say that repair bays should lower the time required and the modifier with stationary bays being the lowest and mobile bays being slightly higher.
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tgsofgc
01/04/04 04:35 PM
67.4.194.245
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Very cool, and definately useful. Couple of questions though:
1. Why do the claws help? (Maybe I missed this or misunderstood)
2. Can an ammo explosion happen on any of the "failed" loadings or does it simply destroy the ammo?
GJ though
I find that 'pinpoint' accuracy during a bombing run increases proportionally with the amount of munitions used.
-Commander Nathaniel Klepper,
Avanti's Angels, 3058
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Nightward
01/04/04 05:33 PM
211.26.64.201
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Although they never published rules like this, it is how I imagine the old J27 Ordinance Tucks would wok.
On a second note, however; the Clans do not use any Utility Mechs, at all. And they would certainly not bother to have a 'Mech constructed so that inept warriors who expended all their ammunition could be given a chance to do it again
Yea, verily. Let it be known far and wide that Nightward loathes MW: DA. Indeed, it is with the BURNING ANIMUS OF A THOUSAND SUNS that he doth rage against it with.
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Ghost
01/04/04 07:12 PM
64.123.20.5
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i agree. and you could do the same with a coolant version, similar to the old coolant vehicle also. Guess it would be considered the same as the lvl 3 coolant pods that you can attach to your 'Mech. I like both ideas.
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Silenced_Sonix
01/06/04 04:25 PM
168.209.97.34
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The point on Clan CRSM's is duly noted, and the only reason I originally made Clan versions too was - and don't shoot me if I say this - because of a faint interest in the MWDA setting, where the Steel Wolves used less-experienced, and non- true born warriors... Though it would be an interesting idea non the less. Up to you guys though - you're hopefully gonna be the ones to use the system.
Final note that I had forgotten on the CRSM - it can fire while reloading, but only in its rear arc, and only with rear-mounted weapons in the legs and torso. Update 1.0.01
As for the benefit of the claws - although it sacrifices the fine motor control of the regular mech hand, it allows the CRSM to get a better grip on the Consumer, lessening the chance that a spill might occur from either mechs being shaken around, or the CRSM having to work fast to transfer multiple tons of ammo. Come to think of it, that would make the -1 modifier from the Claw non-cumalative - if it's holding on with both hands, what does it use to transfer the ammo?  Okay, thats update 1.0.02 ...lol
As for the ammo that spills - these rounds end up scattered over the Consumer and CRSM's hex. You could say that each squar gets a half ton of ammo (odds round up and land in the CRSM hex), with chances that future damage dealt to that square has a chance of detonating the ammo and dealing more damage to anything in the square - could be potentially dangerous to spill a bunch of AC20 rounds in a hex, bugger off, and then shoot at the hex to blow up the ammo later when something else enters it - getting a AC20 shell up your groin tends to hurt...
Any other questions? I'd appreciate it if someone could run a short battle or two using CRSM's, and just tell me how it performed, and if there were any uncertainties - I haven't had the chance to yet, and am actually quite curious how effective it would be.
Someone mentioned rather deploying another mech that can shoot the ammo out itself - a well-designed CRSM would work out cheaper than a normal battlemech, and wouldn't require an ace of a pilot for it to be effective. Beyond that, the CRSM is more of a novelty design for specific scenarios and such than for wide-spread useage - Periphery militias suddenly come to mind. Although it's still entirely up to you guys.
Evolve or Die
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Diablo
01/06/04 05:18 PM
24.114.50.190
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I'll get right on that test run using my prototype I submitted. should be interesting although I think it would be more useful in longer campaigns.
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Nightward
01/06/04 05:34 PM
211.26.65.248
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Dear lord. The thought of the Marian Hegemony armed with these things...
Marian Pilot: "I fire all my RL-10s"
---50-odd RL-10s later---
Marian Pilot: "Righto. Load me up."
Yea, verily. Let it be known far and wide that Nightward loathes MW: DA. Indeed, it is with the BURNING ANIMUS OF A THOUSAND SUNS that he doth rage against it with.
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Silenced_Sonix
01/07/04 03:48 PM
168.209.97.34
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Yes... the thought is both terrifying and horribly amusing at once. I've attached a zip with the orginal three CRSM's I made - a 30 tonner, a 45 tonner, and the original - a 60 tonner. Have fun!
Attachment (652 downloads)
Evolve or Die
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Silenced_Sonix
01/07/04 05:08 PM
168.209.97.34
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Just checking - it is possible to stack a BattleArmor unit in a hex with a mech, right? That way, you could have two BattleArmor squads - one in the Consumer's hex, one in the CRSM's hex - and they could then both aid in the reloading - normal infantry wouldn't be able to, only jump-equipped BattleArmor with at least a Battle Claw or two Armoured Gloves per trooper. With a maximum of two squads present - one per hex - it would give the CRSM a -1 modifier per squad when rolling to see if the the transfer is successfull. Also, when ammo spills, it is not lost, but returned to the CRSM instead. The BattleArmor squads would be able to attack from their hexes, but all to-Hit rolls will have a +1 modifier, and they'll only be able to attack with their direct-fire weapons - no launching SRM's or LRM's.
Bleh... Beyond that, I don't really know how to make it more complicated/advanced/time-consuming.
Evolve or Die
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Diablo
01/07/04 05:14 PM
24.114.50.190
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how about rolling for every ammo bin instead of lacation? and calcualting half spills of ammunition? direct ammo feeds to specific weapons? the effects of inferno's and generic flames near open ammunition? physical combat intrusions? having either pilot going unconcious? falling? terrain effects?
need I go on?
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Diablo
01/07/04 05:30 PM
24.114.50.190
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The Battle:
Here's the summary, the mech works. I threw in a pair of ammo hungry RAC/20 users (Rippers, my own design) with two CRSM versus a lance of hunchbacks with a pair of CRSM for them. (i saw a pattern. did u?  ) anywho, I gave the sides mountainus terrain to hide it. I had the light side camp their CRSM's in the mountains. they went out in pairs to attack while the other two reloaded. that worked. the heavies I had the CRSM's goto the mechs. this worked out bad for one of the mechs. laser kinda touched off a bin of RAC/20 ammo in the transfer (ouch!). needless to say, both mechs took heavy damage and the poorly designed prototype CRSM died. the Ripper took a lot of damage to the back which touched off the rest of his RAC's ammo and made him go boom. the other Ripper got ripped apart (oh the irony) by the healthaly supplied hunchbacks and the CRSM ran out of ammo. so he ran away.
My thoughts (be afraid!  ):
the hunchbacks tactic worked saftly, but their job could be easily taken over by a vehicle and make it cheeper. since it's generaly stationary. the Rippers tactic was fine. their always is a danger in war. they found that out. with a better design attatched to the CRSM, they would actualy work out. the CRSM's got in, hooked up for a turn, reloaded one side of the mechs bays, and got out. all the while the mech fired from the other torso's bays. when that one ran dry, they switched side and filled the other one. the system worked out. although it might be a tad more complex if more than one ammo type is used and/or more locations are needed. all in all they worked, just my prototype needs remodeling.
My Rating:
A+
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Silenced_Sonix
01/07/04 05:31 PM
168.209.97.34
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Reloading is per location, as the CRSM flushes the existing bins on the Consumer and then simply dumps a new load into every bin.
Half-spills - possible, but you tell me how.
"direct ammo feeds to specific weapons? " - not quite sure what you mean there...
Fire and infernos - if either the Consumer of the CRSM stands in fire, or has been hit by more than two infernos, an ammo explosion can occur, with an explosion on a roll of 7+, with a -1 modifier for every further inferno to hit. That way, getting hit by three infernos would reduce the roll to 6+ (1 less because of the initial two indernos, plus an additional one for the third inferno)
Physical combat - same as ammo explosions during weapons fire - explosion on 8+
If the CRSM pilot goes unconscious, the first location spills and the rest are not transfered.
Falling - already covered - if either fall, all ammo is spilt
Terrain - both mechs are stationary during operation, so terrain should have no effect on success of transfer.
Anything else you wanna throw at me?
Evolve or Die
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