Tzu
05/17/04 03:55 PM
68.223.107.79
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Is it worth it to put turrets on quad mechs? Since the only disadvantage (that I can think of) that they have over bipeds is the lack of torso twist, the installation of a turret would correct this problem. The problem with that solution is that turrets cost weight and a critical that could be used for other things like weapons and armor. Thoughts, anyone? 
Ever made a 'Mech with 6 Gauss Rifles? I have.
Brick Commander, where Lego and Battletech unite!
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tgsofgc
05/17/04 05:06 PM
67.4.194.189
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yeah generally quads have gotten a pretty bum shake in battletech. Unless using level 3 rules, they generally will be worse than a normal biped (the slight armor increase is hardly sufficient to off set the loss of 12 criticals and the arm arcs).
One rule you can try in your group if they allow it, that I remember reading about as a fan rule back in the day before there were really official quad creation rules (think TRO: 3025) is...
Simply treat one of the Quad's two side torsos (mark it on the page) as a turret mechanism. This means anything (and everything) in that torso is pointed like a turret during the twist phase. The upside being you need not allocate criticals or weight for this turret torso. I think it was originally a house rule for getting the Goliath to work like the Picture looks (big gun on a turret). I don't think it is overpowering with the lack of an ability to punch and the loss of crits still.
Another option is to consider some of the optional rules presented in things like maxtech to bring quads back inline power wise.
I find that 'pinpoint' accuracy during a bombing run increases proportionally with the amount of munitions used.
-Commander Nathaniel Klepper,
Avanti's Angels, 3058
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Greyslayer
05/18/04 11:14 AM
216.14.192.234
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Quads were never considered to be the complete match for bipedal mechs.
that being said there are many areas where they exceed biped mech abilities in level 2.
Laying prone, during the movement phase the mech will use a movement point and drop down to the ground. This doesn't require a roll and is not counted as firing while prone for shooting AT targets, enemy units trying to shoot at you though receive the +1 modifier to hit a prone target unless they are adjacent. You still have to roll to get back up, but this is perfect for that situation where you end just short of decent cover and will easily reach it next turn. Also good to get that extra +1 modifier at a crucial time.
Lateral movement, don't think I need to explain that one.
-2 to pilot skill checks when still has all four legs operational. This is fantastic for the IS jocks who enjoy a bit of booting or barging. In level three, if coupled with skills like Manouver Ace or Melee Specialist this type of mech becomes a real pain. TSM is also so much nastier in the hands (or legs) of a Quad, think about receiving a kick from a scorpion with TSM, 22 points at base 2 to hit when on the right heat. In BV games it is far cheaper to drop piloting than Gunnery so why not go for a piloting specialist in a quad and charge suckers out of the game? Or perhaps DFA?
You don't have to get 'fixated' on the negatives of quads.
Greyslayer
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tgsofgc
05/18/04 05:12 PM
209.110.234.57
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First of all:
pg 77 BMR "... as long as none of the legs are destroyed, add a -2 modifier to piloting skill rolls made to avoid falls. ."
second:
Quads with all four legs need not make a piloting skill roll to get up.
So...
Why don't these make quads better. Well the LAteral shift is a savings of 1 mp, which in level 2 most mechs with 12 extra internal spaces can either make up for by allocating weight savings to the engine/jump jets, or a bip can turn one hex and move forward one hex (now in the same hex as the quad but faing one away) then torso twist for firing. Meaning in reality as apposed to costing 1 more mp it is more analagous to costing 1/2 mp because it only affects manuevering not firing.
Next the quads loose their fancy piloting skill bonuses and ability to get up the second they have a leg destroyed.... well with four legs this will happen:
(Based on Front/Rear table)
Chance to hit arms:
2/36
3/36
2/36
3/36
Chance to hit legs:
4/36
4/36
10/36 hit arms (now front legs)
8/36 hit legs
So a quad has a 50% chance of being hit in the legs while a biped has a 22.2% chance
So a quad will likely loose one leg or take debilitating damage 225% faster.
Also actuator hits and penalties are cumulative for a quad. So not only will it loose a leg or actuators faster, and have more to loose, each is as dentrimental as loosing a leg to a Biped (well unless you are playing with insanely good pilots who can suffer all the +s and stand up on 3 legs).
Quads are heavily slited in Battletech. The only thing close to a reasonable advantage they get imo is in level 3 with the mule kick, and that is severly limited, and in level 1 the ability to dump more heat sinks in their legs for water aided dissipation. Note I like variety in the universe, I am simply discussing this from an efficiency stand point.
I find that 'pinpoint' accuracy during a bombing run increases proportionally with the amount of munitions used.
-Commander Nathaniel Klepper,
Avanti's Angels, 3058
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Tzu
05/18/04 05:27 PM
68.158.67.238
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Thanks for the tips tgsofgc. Having one torso as the turret really simplifies things and frees up that extra tonnage. I've got to agree with Grayslayer, though. Despite all of the apparent disadvantages they have in the game, tactically they are the sounder choice. A squat design presents a low profile, and extra legs provide for more stability. While they can't punch, they can kick, and depending on the size of the target they could even trample it.
Ever made a 'Mech with 6 Gauss Rifles? I have.
Brick Commander, where Lego and Battletech unite!
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