Karagin
03/08/02 08:03 PM
63.173.170.11
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Type/Model: Apis Prime
Tech: Inner Sphere / 3060
Config: Biped OmniMech
Rules: Level 2, Standard design
Mass: 45 tons
Chassis: Skoda Medium Endo Steel
Power Plant: 270 Rawlings XL Fusion
Walking Speed: 64.8 km/h
Maximum Speed: 97.2 km/h
Jump Jets: 6 Northrup 750 Standard Jump Jets
Jump Capacity: 180 meters
Armor Type: LeClerc Heavy Standard
Armament:
1 Holbar Arms Limited HL-3 ER Large Laser
2 Holbar Arms Limited SL-3 ER Small Lasers
3 Holbar Arms Limited ML-3 ER Medium Lasers
1 Orion Superstreaks Streak SRM 6
Manufacturer: Skoda Mechyards
Location: Prague, Terra
Communications System: Hughes Martin CMC Series
Targeting & Tracking System: Hughes Martin Scanner Track 3000
==Overview:==
The Apis is the preimer mech of the Terran Defense Force. The Apis's role is to get in and mix it up with other mechs, and it has the firepower to do this with, as well as the armor.
The Apis can act as a heavy scout if need but it is mainly a brawler.
--------------------------------------------------------
Type/Model: Apis Prime
Mass: 45 tons
Equipment: Crits Mass
Int. Struct.: 75 pts Endo Steel 14 2.50
(Endo Steel Loc: 4 LA, 3 RA, 2 RT, 1 CT, 2 LL, 2 RL)
Engine: 270 XL 12 7.50
Walking MP: 6
Running MP: 9
Jumping MP: 6
Heat Sinks: 12 Double [24] 6 2.00
(Heat Sink Loc: 2 LT)
Gyro: 4 3.00
Cockpit, Life Supt., Sensors: 5 3.00
Actuators: L: Sh+UA+LA+H R: Sh+UA 14 .00
Armor Factor: 144 pts Standard 0 9.00
Internal Armor
Structure Value
Head: 3 9
Center Torso: 14 18
Center Torso (Rear): 9
L/R Side Torso: 11 16/16
L/R Side Torso (Rear): 6/6
L/R Arm: 7 12/12
L/R Leg: 11 20/20
Weapons and Equipment Loc Heat Ammo Crits Mass
--------------------------------------------------------
1 ER Large Laser RA 12 2 5.00
1 ER Small Laser RA 2 1 .50
2 ER Medium Lasers LA 10 2 2.00
1 Streak SRM 6 RT 4 15 3 5.50
(Ammo Locations: 1 RT)
1 ER Small Laser CT 2 1 .50
1 ER Medium Laser HD 5 1 1.00
CASE Equipment: RT 1 .50
6 Standard Jump Jets: 6 3.00
(Jump Jet Loc: 3 LT, 3 RT)
--------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS: 35 72 45.00
Crits & Tons Left: 6 .00
Calculated Factors:
Total Cost: 10,622,790 C-Bills
Battle Value: 1,280
Cost per BV: 8,299.05
Weapon Value: 1,107 / 1,026 (Ratio = .86 / .80)
Damage Factors: SRDmg = 24; MRDmg = 11; LRDmg = 2
BattleForce2: MP: 6J, Armor/Structure: 4/2
Damage PB/M/L: 3/3/1, Overheat: 2
Class: MM; Point Value: 13
Specials: omni
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Cray
03/08/02 10:16 PM
12.78.128.139
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Trade the ER smalls for an ER ML, then dump the omni option. You'd have such a good mix (ER LL, 4 ER MLs, SSRM 6) at that point that you wouldn't need to alter the mech much ever, saving yourself about 25% off the final cost.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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Karagin
03/08/02 11:21 PM
63.173.170.151
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I like the idea for the weapons but I am not changing the omni option mainly because the omni option is what is giving the Terrans an advantage over their neighbors...
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Cray
03/09/02 08:29 AM
12.91.116.67
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Omnis are overrated. Once you have the speed of omni repairs (possible in a standard mech) and omni standardization of components (also possible), there's nothing else really worth the effort in omni technology to copy.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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Hellbringer
03/09/02 11:13 AM
192.195.234.26
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And whay the CASE? If the ammo gets hit it is still going to take out all three engine crits in that torso, more than likley making the mech go nova. There is no point in keeping the damage all in the right torso if the entire mech is going to be vaporized anyway.
This thing can run way hot if one is not careful. I say drop the CASE and the ER Smalls for an active probe or ECM Suite.
"But it SHOULD be a spectacle! It should be grand and exciting to us all! I'd hate to think that we've become so jaded that we find even our greatest tiumph, resurrecting the Star League, simply one more obligation."
-General Victor Steiner-Davion (First Prince and Archon in exile) 3064
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KamikazeJohnson
03/09/02 08:35 PM
209.202.47.12
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in theory, CASE would leave more of the 'Mech behind to be salvaged or repaired later. Makes sense if you're a campaign player...
Peace is that glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.
--Thomas Jefferson
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NathanKell
03/09/02 08:59 PM
24.44.238.62
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And improves pilot survival.
-NathanKell, BT Space Wars
Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear.
Thomas Jefferson |
Karagin
03/09/02 09:05 PM
63.173.170.213
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All good reason as to why it's there...
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Hellbringer
03/10/02 02:50 AM
192.195.234.26
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CASE will not stop a 'mech from being turned into nothing if an ammo explosion in the torso with the CASE causes three engine hits and then the player/pilot fails the saving roll.
"But it SHOULD be a spectacle! It should be grand and exciting to us all! I'd hate to think that we've become so jaded that we find even our greatest tiumph, resurrecting the Star League, simply one more obligation."
-General Victor Steiner-Davion (First Prince and Archon in exile) 3064
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Karagin
03/10/02 06:43 AM
63.173.170.157
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The CASE stops the transfer of damage to the rest of the mech, while it may not stop the 3 hits to the XL in that torso it does give the winner of the battle something to salavage, and where is the Level 2 rule for saves against this?
The only way the mechs goes nuke is with the Stackpole rule in play and that is an optional rule.
You may want to re-read pages 135 and 136 of the BMR-R as to how CASE works.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Cray
03/10/02 07:11 AM
12.91.118.126
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The CASE is there because 3 engine hits are just shielding hits. Quick and easy to repair, very intact salvage, very alive pilot.
No CASE, no engine is left whatsoever. No torso, either.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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Cray
03/10/02 07:13 AM
12.91.118.126
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You missed the point. There's more to life than battle. If the Apis's side wins the battle, they can have a CASE-equipped version back into battle in a matter of hours.
If the Apis lacks CASE and suffers an ammo explosion, it's never going back to battle except as spare parts for other mechs.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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Hellbringer
03/10/02 02:23 PM
192.195.234.26
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So obeying the laws of physics is a house rule... dang thats a big oversight by the game writers.
"But it SHOULD be a spectacle! It should be grand and exciting to us all! I'd hate to think that we've become so jaded that we find even our greatest tiumph, resurrecting the Star League, simply one more obligation."
-General Victor Steiner-Davion (First Prince and Archon in exile) 3064
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Karagin
03/10/02 03:18 PM
63.173.170.15
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FASA and physics have never FULLY merged well...same with economics...but on the CASE issue look at the US M1A1 or A2 tank, it has a CASE like system that blows the ammo UP and AWAY from the tank, thus saving most of the tank, and if it works right the crew as well, that is what the Battletech CASE is suppose to do. Save most of the mech and the mechwarrior from the going up in a blaze of glory.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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NathanKell
03/10/02 04:02 PM
24.44.238.62
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Also note that, as FASA has said on many occasions (including Engine Explosion rules) it is physically impossible for a fusion engine to explode. Period. Fission yes, fusion no.
-NathanKell, BT Space Wars
Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear.
Thomas Jefferson |
Karagin
03/10/02 06:19 PM
63.173.170.124
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Type/Model: Apis A
Tech: Inner Sphere / 3058
Config: Biped OmniMech
Rules: Level 2, Standard design
Mass: 45 tons
Chassis: Endo Steel
Power Plant: 270 GM XL Fusion
Walking Speed: 64.8 km/h
Maximum Speed: 97.2 km/h
Jump Jets: 6 Standard Jump Jets
Jump Capacity: 180 meters
Armor Type: Standard
Armament:
2 ER Small Lasers
2 ER Medium Lasers
2 LRM 10s
Manufacturer: (Unknown)
Location: (Unknown)
Communications System: (Unknown)
Targeting & Tracking System: (Unknown)
--------------------------------------------------------
Type/Model: Apis A
Mass: 45 tons
Equipment: Crits Mass
Int. Struct.: 75 pts Endo Steel 14 2.50
(Endo Steel Loc: 3 LA, 3 RA, 2 LT, 2 RT, 2 LL, 2 RL)
Engine: 270 XL 12 7.50
Walking MP: 6
Running MP: 9
Jumping MP: 6
Heat Sinks: 10 Double [20] 0 .00
Gyro: 4 3.00
Cockpit, Life Supt., Sensors: 5 3.00
Actuators: L: Sh+UA+LA+H R: Sh+UA 14 .00
Armor Factor: 144 pts Standard 0 9.00
Internal Armor
Structure Value
Head: 3 9
Center Torso: 14 18
Center Torso (Rear): 9
L/R Side Torso: 11 16/16
L/R Side Torso (Rear): 6/6
L/R Arm: 7 12/12
L/R Leg: 11 20/20
Weapons and Equipment Loc Heat Ammo Crits Mass
--------------------------------------------------------
1 ER Small Laser RA 2 1 .50
2 ER Medium Lasers RA 10 2 2.00
1 LRM 10 RT 4 36 5 8.00
(Ammo Locations: 1 LT, 2 RT)
1 LRM 10 LT 4 2 5.00
1 ER Small Laser HD 2 1 .50
CASE Equipment: LT RT 2 1.00
6 Standard Jump Jets: 6 3.00
(Jump Jet Loc: 2 LT, 2 RT, 2 CT)
--------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS: 22 68 45.00
Crits & Tons Left: 10 .00
Calculated Factors:
Total Cost: 10,394,415 C-Bills
Battle Value: 1,107
Cost per BV: 9,389.72
Weapon Value: 954 / 954 (Ratio = .86 / .86)
Damage Factors: SRDmg = 14; MRDmg = 13; LRDmg = 5
BattleForce2: MP: 6J, Armor/Structure: 4/2
Damage PB/M/L: 3/2/1, Overheat: 0
Class: MM; Point Value: 11
Specials: omni, if
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Karagin
03/10/02 06:20 PM
63.173.170.124
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Type/Model: Apis B
Tech: Inner Sphere / 3058
Config: Biped OmniMech
Rules: Level 2, Standard design
Mass: 45 tons
Chassis: Endo Steel
Power Plant: 270 GM XL Fusion
Walking Speed: 64.8 km/h
Maximum Speed: 97.2 km/h
Jump Jets: 6 Standard Jump Jets
Jump Capacity: 180 meters
Armor Type: Standard
Armament:
1 Ultra AC/5
3 ER Medium Lasers
1 Medium Pulse Laser
1 ER Small Laser
Manufacturer: (Unknown)
Location: (Unknown)
Communications System: (Unknown)
Targeting & Tracking System: (Unknown)
--------------------------------------------------------
Type/Model: Apis B
Mass: 45 tons
Equipment: Crits Mass
Int. Struct.: 75 pts Endo Steel 14 2.50
(Endo Steel Loc: 3 LA, 3 RA, 2 LT, 2 RT, 2 LL, 2 RL)
Engine: 270 XL 12 7.50
Walking MP: 6
Running MP: 9
Jumping MP: 6
Heat Sinks: 11 Double [22] 3 1.00
(Heat Sink Loc: 1 LT)
Gyro: 4 3.00
Cockpit, Life Supt., Sensors: 5 3.00
Actuators: L: Sh+UA+LA+H R: Sh+UA 14 .00
Armor Factor: 144 pts Standard 0 9.00
Internal Armor
Structure Value
Head: 3 9
Center Torso: 14 18
Center Torso (Rear): 9
L/R Side Torso: 11 16/16
L/R Side Torso (Rear): 6/6
L/R Arm: 7 12/12
L/R Leg: 11 20/20
Weapons and Equipment Loc Heat Ammo Crits Mass
--------------------------------------------------------
1 Ultra AC/5 RA 1 20 6 10.00
(Ammo Locations: 1 RT)
1 ER Medium Laser RA 5 1 1.00
1 Medium Pulse Laser LA 4 1 2.00
2 ER Medium Lasers LT 10 2 2.00
1 ER Small Laser HD 2 1 .50
CASE Equipment: RT 1 .50
6 Standard Jump Jets: 6 3.00
(Jump Jet Loc: 2 LT, 2 RT, 2 CT)
--------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS: 23 70 45.00
Crits & Tons Left: 8 .00
Calculated Factors:
Total Cost: 10,401,212 C-Bills
Battle Value: 1,199
Cost per BV: 8,674.91
Weapon Value: 1,030 / 1,030 (Ratio = .86 / .86)
Damage Factors: SRDmg = 23; MRDmg = 10; LRDmg = 3
BattleForce2: MP: 6J, Armor/Structure: 4/2
Damage PB/M/L: 3/3/1, Overheat: 1
Class: MM; Point Value: 12
Specials: omni
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Cray
03/11/02 07:33 AM
204.245.128.3
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Since when can fission engines explode?
At most you're look at some burst boiler tubes, assuming it uses a steam system rather than, say, helium.
Well, if you're using steam *and* a big block of graphite, a reactor malfunction can generate a lot of flammable carbon monoxide and (when fresh air gets in) cause the graphite to burn - graphite is basically very pure coal. But it won't make much of bang. Why, you'd need to fill a large building with graphite and carbon monoxide to get an appreciable explosion. I heard the Russians did that once.
But otherwise fission reactors are pretty darn tame. Mostly you just need to worry about glowing puddles of metal in the containment vessel if something goes REALLY wrong.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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Cray
03/11/02 07:35 AM
204.245.128.3
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Yes. Stackpole introduced the stackpole for sheer drama effects. Realistically, you don't have to worry about fusion engines exploding. Heck, even FASA says that.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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NathanKell
03/11/02 03:23 PM
24.44.238.62
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I thought you could get a runaway reaction with a fission pile? Critical mass, and all that?
-NathanKell, BT Space Wars
Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear.
Thomas Jefferson |
Cray
03/11/02 03:35 PM
204.245.128.3
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There's a lot of variables here.
A lot of reactor fuel is utterly unsuitable for bombs. When it gets out of control, it may...
1) turn into a molten puddle
2) actually under go a drop in reaction rates
3) engage any number of safety systems, which range from elaborate computerized expert systems to simply melting supports that cause the fuel elements to fall away from each other
Very often it is impossible to make reactors run out of control.
Further, note that fission bombs actually involve making fissionable material pack closer together than could be achieved "naturally" - i.e. melting all the fuel into a reactor into a single blob won't do it. You need to use explosives to compress the right kind of fuel way beyond natural densities to get the proper supercritical reactions. This is typically done in the "implosion" method, which surrounds a lump of fuel with a carefully, carefully arranged ball of explosives and explosive lenses. Alternately, the much less efficient "gun style" bomb fires a slug of bomb-grade material at a bigger lump of bomb-grade material to generate some localized supercritical reactions.
But normal reactors just aren't set up, don't even have the right fuel for supercritical reactions no matter how far they get out of control. Even when they have the right fuel, the material needs to be brought together to unnatural densities to get a supercritical reaction. This won't happen in a mangled reactor.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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NathanKell
03/11/02 04:43 PM
24.44.238.62
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Thank you for a most helpful and lucid explanation, which clears up a lot of misconceptions and just unknowns surrounding fission.
-NathanKell, BT Space Wars
Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear.
Thomas Jefferson |
Hellbringer
03/11/02 06:28 PM
192.195.234.26
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Battlemechs have FUSION engines, not FISSION engines.
"But it SHOULD be a spectacle! It should be grand and exciting to us all! I'd hate to think that we've become so jaded that we find even our greatest tiumph, resurrecting the Star League, simply one more obligation."
-General Victor Steiner-Davion (First Prince and Archon in exile) 3064
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NathanKell
03/11/02 09:49 PM
24.44.238.62
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I'll thank you not to capitalize needlessly.
I'll also ask you to read my first post on the subject: Also note that, as FASA has said on many occasions (including Engine Explosion rules) it is physically impossible for a fusion engine to explode. Period.
-NathanKell, BT Space Wars
Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear.
Thomas Jefferson |
Nightmare
03/12/02 04:38 AM
194.251.240.107
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Yes, but since Fusion engines shouldn`t be exploding, someone asked if Fission engines are any more likely
to go BOOM. They`re not.
Advice for Evil Overlords:
My legions of terror will be trained in basic marksmanship. Any who cannot learn to hit a man-sized target at 10 meters will be used for target practice.
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Cray
03/12/02 06:41 AM
204.245.128.3
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SOMEBODY hasn't been following the conversation.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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Bob_Richter
03/12/02 06:48 AM
134.121.157.14
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Speaking of fission, I've been wondering for a while about making a Battlemech Fission Engine...what its unique properties would be and etc.
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter
Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
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Cray
03/12/02 07:17 AM
204.245.128.3
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Someone else wondered about that on RGM many moons ago and got my input. Don't recall what the end result was - I don't think I agreed with it, though.
I'd treat it as heavier than a fusion engine, like 50% heavier, and maybe tougher. But cheaper and lower tech.
Maybe more compact, or not. Both engines have high shielding needs and shielding is the supposed explanation behind the bulk of compact engines, normal engines, XL engines, and XXL engines.
One unique property would be a mess on the battlefield if the reactor chamber was ruptured, say if it took more than 3 critical hits.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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Cray
03/12/02 12:40 PM
204.245.128.3
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Addendum:
You might have an argument that nuke plants need power amplifiers for energy weapons. An MHD tap on fusion engines is just perfect for supplying high voltage, high current electricity for energy weapons, but a fission engine probably (but not necessarily) needs to harness its power via a heat engine like an ICE.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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novakitty
03/12/02 12:57 PM
24.240.246.16
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Current fission reactors need two things (maybe more, but two come to mind) that the fusion reactors of battletch do not.
1) a turbine system that uses the heat generated to make energy
2) expensive (but high energy/unit of mass) fuel, usualy uranium
The energy output of a fission engine would probably be enough to power energy weapons without an amplifier, but I would suggest more detailed criticals (reactor, boiler, turbine) instead of just "engine".
If you like my views, I will not charge a comission on their use, if you do not like my ideas, do not use them.
meow
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