Requiem
06/11/18 04:58 AM
58.175.193.140
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Sorry you misunderstood what I was writing – capturing ammo to continue a war is poor strategy – but capturing another worlds ammo production facility, having it work for you for many years to build up multiple ammo dumps on multiple worlds to support a pending invasion that is another story.
Warships????? Again we are talking 3039, but if you want to bring that subject in CC has a huge Jumpship manufacturing facility why not get it now and use it to produce warships.
Yes the DC could have produced warships and yes they are a threat – however the FC has now got three of the IS’s only remaining Jumpship production plants – how many can the DC make to how many the FC can make?
However in 3039 can you say this would be an issue as to when deciding to invade or not? It is still an non-issue for a couple of more years, then it will be an issue …
Yes Justine Married Candice LIAO – this is exactly why you cannot allow him, his wife or his children to ever rule any gained territory in the former CC. The Liao name would give them legitimacy in the future to succeed from FC and establish neo CC – this is a good way to loose all of the newly captured territory – thus, good luck in getting it back in one piece. No you want someone with the right name ….. hmmmmm ….. Steiner or Davion sounds like a good name for the job …. Now who to choose?
New weapons … Omnis … what is this in relation to invading the CC or not in 3039?
200+ Regiments – you need an offensive team and a defensive team – you put those numbers to either one or the other that you can and then hope for the best result. Attack what you can and defend what you can the choice is yours when assigning combat / garrison tasks.
Good point, attacking the DC earlier could have changed the outcome – Though this delay proves my point .... as delayed attack = unsuccessful attack; As they (DC) have had time to prepare for the attack they have recovered for the 4SW – hence a more effective attack is required to achieve their aims – such as more transport required to get around their (DC) defensive plans – so how do we do this? Lets borrow (on a long term basis) the CC they won’t mind ….
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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ghostrider
06/11/18 12:54 PM
66.74.61.223
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The omnis were there to show issues with captured items from an enemy factory. It does not work with your models unless you modify them. Omni capability changed that, as they fit into pods, then into units. Granted, you still have to modify the parts to fit into the pods, or have that many more connections, braces, brackets and the like.
The idea of warships in the hands of the combine is the worse nightmare for the FC at that time. And as is always hindsight is 20/20. You suggest they have x amount of facilities, yet seem to forget in game intel. We, as readers and players know this, but the in game nations don't have any ideas of what each has or where. And just because you have jumpship facilities, doesn't mean they didn't have shut down warship facilities.
Granted, retooling factories to make items you can use off the assembly lines wouldn't take all that long, it would still have to be done. So instant production of items you can use for other units isn't going to happen. And with that, you would have to redesign parts of the units you were taking, as they would not be able to use your 'new' parts. The tanks from the U.S. normally do not work in tanks from Russia. Yes, once you own their factories, you can try to produce parts there.
Educated guesses has alot to do with planning wars. Even raids were planned around things like prototypes, rumored blueprints and such.
As I recently read the clan invasion, I did see the suggestion of using nukes against the clans, yet in this thread, one of the two most likely to use nukes was said that they wouldn't. The DC and CC are about tied on which would use them. The FC/FS/LC was least likely. But I guess comparing the two isn't fair. In this, the CC would be fighting for it's existence, while in the clan alt, it is the FC.
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Requiem
06/12/18 07:55 AM
58.175.193.140
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Question:- How does any of this relates to decision to invade the CC or the DC cira. 3039?
Sorry, by I have not read anything that would change my mind - 1st CC - use its resources / industries to build up the FC over a 15-20 year period then use the CC Jumpships + your old and new army then 2nd Attack the DC in late 3050 early 3060 - as it is logical, achievable and provides the money necessary for a future invasion of the DC. Though the main point wold still be that it achieves that which no one has ever done before the destruction of a Great House ....All Hail the FC at this stage....
Writers ..... ahhhhhhh!, what do we do next?
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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ghostrider
06/12/18 10:19 PM
66.74.61.223
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The demand of use of nukes to stop the clans, but the same idea is said would never work here shows some flaws with the logic in this alt history.
As said in the other thread, the use of nukes could be done to destroy the enemies ability to move thru areas. I would suggest the use of nukes in major areas, like the jump points of Galaxy, Kathil, Hesperous, and a few others, especially jump ship repairs and building would be a valid thing to do. Remove the ability to use those facilities without destroying them. Jumpships do not travel well with thrusters to pirate points.
The idea of not building new factories is lacking knowdledge of the history of the IS. Almost all of the new mechs, dropships and such did not come from factories in existence during the 3rd succession war. They were all built, including engine manufacturers and such since that time. The hachetman, wolfhound, dragon, raven, and others came from factories that did not exist. So by even suggesting there is no new factories being done, show a hole in the understanding of the game. The DC had to build a new factory to keep making the panther mech when the FRR was born, before the 3039 war. Even fixing ones that existed was done, so there is a small out for this statement.
Salvaging things from the enemy was done, but normally mechs, tanks and the like. For new lines, you did not rely on trying to take factories from each other.
Blackwell company is a fine example of this. The marauder 2 was not from a captured factory, but from one build from the ground up.
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Requiem
06/13/18 07:26 PM
58.175.193.140
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How does any of this relates to decision to invade the CC or the DC cira. 3039?
Building Factories is one thing, however acquiring the Jumpship facilities / Cataphract / Raven / Vindicator ‘Mech manufacturing facilities / all of the CC people / agriculture / minerals / is another.
Invading a rival’s Capital Planet and conquering it – completing that which no one has ever achieved
How could anyone want to give this up for attacking the border worlds of the DC?
If you wanted to destroy the DC military and their future Warships production – then why did you not target these rather than targeting the DC planets along the borders as described in the sourcebook – Targeting planets = objective is a land grab; Targeting military / military infrastructure = objective to destroy your enemies ability to wage war in the future.
IF the DCMS was so dangerous, and they were the primary target of the 3039 war then why ….?????
If you were going to destroy the DC military would you not target all of their Sword of Light Regiments (the loss of which would be a crippling blow to the DCMS – not only militarily but psychologically to the entire people of the DC and that of their Generals and their Coordinator personally)
I Know Luthien Armor works would have been a bit of a stretch – but what about the Panther (on Jarett) and The Sholagar (on Torbildown and Schyler), Slayer (on Dover) and Shilone (on Chatham) Aerospace fighters – all of which would be a serious loss to the DCMS?
Also why not target some of their military academies – Sun Zhang, Proserpina, Hachiman and Minoru Kurita – if you wanted to destroy their future military infrastructure?
No the 3039 war can only be described as a land grab if worlds were the primary target (as discussed previously – approx.. 40 DC worlds at a cost of 75 FC regiments) whereas the CC is more cost effective as a land grab (100 CC worlds at a cost of 40-50 FC Regiments) plus you get more, more Jumpships, more mechs, more aerospace, greater economy and you have achieved a feat no one has ever achieved.
So again why would you not attack the CC rather than the DC if it is as it appears to be a land grab rather than a serious attempt to destroy the DC military?
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
Edited by Requiem (06/14/18 06:36 AM)
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ghostrider
06/13/18 09:41 PM
66.74.61.223
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Taking territory so you have a safer back side in order to advance deeper into their territory is a must. Supplies to continue moving forward need to have the safe passage.
With the sword of light question, there is a context that is missing. Where are they? Can you reach them and get out afterwards? How many troops will you lose trying to hit Luthien as they may well be stationed on or near it at the time of the strikes? Those in game did not have this information. Today it is called the fog of war. There is no push this button to locate a specific unit.
As for losing faith, losing Dieron, the entire district would be something more demoralizing then the sword of light regiments. You can't hide that fact or suggest the units were reassigned to another area. The media is controlled by the government, so only rumors will exist on what happened with the regiments if destroyed. And you could well embolden the DC if they take out alot more then they lost in such strikes.
Yes. They would be a prime objective if you can reach them reasonably.
It appears the fact that military units guards those worlds on the border has disappeared from sight. Land grab is always the objective unless you are just raiding. Taking those worlds, means the enemy has a harder time striking yours. The further in you go, the more they have to hit their own worlds and take them back before hitting yours.
And that is supposed to be a priority in all wars. Making sure the enemy can't hurt your people.
Part of why taking Capella would have made the CC less of a threat, and not worth risking your units invading at that time.
The military academies would be a decent target if they are in range of your forces.
Cost effective is not what war is about.
I would suggest reading the history of the succession wars. How do you stop the armies of your enemies when you can't get near their facilities?
An invasion of this size would be aimed at taking out units that stand and fight, or get caught and cornered. You bait them to attack on your terms, not theirs. And if they don't, then you hit them with the next wave. Very few wars are over in less then a year.
And that does not even touch personal feelings for the leaders. Liao has been losing territory since the 1st war. A lot of the Capellan march is taking lands. Or do you not have access to the first maps after the League fell?
And the fact the DC threatens both the FS and LC would do wonders for making the population back them. That would remove alot of power from the Skye rebels, as well as reinforce your commitment to the Draconis March.
I think you are focusing on the war as the FS against an enemy, not the LC with them. The FRR formation blocked a large chunk of the LC from getting to the DC, and even had to give up lands in order to make it look like they wanted a peaceful solution to the FRR issue.
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Requiem
06/14/18 06:20 AM
58.175.193.140
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Ok, thank-you that was an interesting read and it gave me many things to think about …
A New Tact for the 3039 FC war then:-
If you believe so strongly then that the CC is the wrong target – then would you consider this the right thing for Hanse Davion to do … rather than attacking along a broad front (as per the original 3039 War), what he should have gone for is a limited target area as his projected front line …. Thus with secured flanks and supply lines he can then expand the front as required once wave 1 has been achieved.
What he is attempting to do therefore is, in some ways, copying some of his initial assault strategies through the CC., though in this case it will be through the DC
Also let us consider a new time period:- As the LC’s Isle of Skye region is almost in revolt and in an effort to remove the key points they are a agitating against – security – as well as proving evidence that the new FC is a benefit to the old LC and not a rope around their neck. The new FC decides to attack the DC in the following manner … therefore proving, in the form of a war, that together they can provide security for Skye (by removing the DC proximity to Skye). Also the Union will achieve great things for the new FC – one such when Dieron comes under FC control – many new business opportunities will arise for the people of Skye.
Previously the 3039 War consisted of the following thrusts …
• Commonwealth Trust;
• Dieron Thrust;
• Benjamin Thrust;
• Galedon Thrust;
What I am suggestion Is a new overall attack pattern / objectives / strategy for the FC:-
The New Operational Objective is as much of the Dieron District as possible – starting with those close to Terra and Dieron itself;
With the treat of Dieron itself gone the issues with the Isle of Skye will die Down.
Once complete it will also provide the FC with a spring-board for attacking towards Benjamin.
(Thus we are only really going after these worlds – however if an important world’s defence force is reduced – then they will attack as a target of opportunity in full force)
• Therefore the Benjamin Thrusts and the Galedon Thrusts are to be considered diversions only – Considerable raids, but raids only they are to draw the attention of the DCMS – objective get them believing the main trust is within these two Trusts.
• Main Thrusts however are the Commonwealth and Dieron Thrusts – Consider taking a couple of RCTs from the Benjamin Trusts and the Galedon Trusts and moving them to a new Joint Trust together with additional LC and Mercenary units.
• All Draconis March Forces along the border with the Draconis Combine are to be put on High Alert and are to make appearances that they are about to join the war – leak false information as to possible targets of opportunity etc . give Kurita spys an overload of information and keep them guessing as to the real targets.
Wave 1. Expected duration for success on wave one was nine months – given a couple of months it will become clear that this is the main thrust
Commonwealth Trust – Kessel, Konstance, Vega, Alnasi, Tsukude
Joint Thrust – Dromini IV, Kaus Australis, Ascella, Kuzuu, Kervil
Dieron Thrust – Dieron, Athenry, Pike IV, Telos IV, Nashira, Al Na’ir
Raids 1.
Benjamin Raids – Klathandu IV, New Mendham, Marduk + others
Galedon Raids – Elidere IV, Huan, Capra + others
Commonwealth Raids – Aubisson, Camlann, Trolloc Prime + others
Wave 2. Expected duration for success on wave two was six months
Commonwealth Trust – Altais, Rukbat, Elaning, Alya, Kaus Borealis
Joint Thrust – Shitara, Algedi, Dabih, Albali, Piedmont
Dieron Thrust – Halstead Station, Yance I, Shinonoi, Ashio, Chichibu
Raids 2.
Benjamin Raids – Proserpina (as a capitol world this would divert forces for the second wave)
Galedon Raids – An Ting, Capra
Commonwealth Raids – Buckminster (as a capitol world this would divert forces for the second wave)
Wave 3. Expected duration for success on wave three was six months
Commonwealth Trust – Aubisson, Shionoha, Cebairai, NewWessex
Joint Thrust – assist any wave 2 or wave 3 worlds as required.
Dieron Thrust – Ancha, Sadachbia, Fellanin II, Lapida II
No raids were scheduled for wave three – if required, and transport / proximity was available, these may be assigned to wave 2 worlds to assist with the invasion.
However if By the end of Wave 2 / during Wave 3 if either Buckminster’s or Proserpina’s defence forces are reduced a provision is to be made to allow either LC or FS forces to invade in force with the aim of taking these two capitol worlds in addition to Dieron.
Your thoughts regarding this change in strategy / time then?
How do you think the war would process, would the DCMS be able to stop the new FC or would the FC be able to achieve all their objectives given time?
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
Edited by Requiem (06/14/18 06:39 AM)
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ghostrider
06/14/18 11:49 AM
66.74.61.223
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To my knowledge they were after lopping off Dieron, but hit on a wider front, to cause the DC to spread its reinforcements across the entire border. When the bs of the Lyran command being killed happened, that change the whole idea of it. That along with the Comstar mechs, and ghost regiments. But that is canon history.
Depending on removing the bs, I would think it would succeed. Though I am also assuming the units involved were not changed or added to.
I would think mercs hired after the war started for back up/opportunity raids would be in order. You may get lucky and hit worlds that the normal garrison was move to assist other worlds, but this would change what is sent in.
Why the change? The CC is a valid target, but not one that was a priority at this time. Simple blockade would reduce resources going into the factory worlds. And as I said. Using Candace would have kept them disorganized for a while. A lesser invasion force may well be sent in to help remove those on the throne. Raids on those worlds with factories and even the ship yards is possible with a DC offensive.
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Requiem
06/14/18 10:13 PM
58.175.193.140
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Quote: am also assuming the units involved were not changed or added to.
Yes I am keeping the same units - but may add other's to the raids if transport is available just to keep Kurita guessing what Next?
Also as I am striking early - Comstar providing the DC with new 'Mechs would also be needed to be considered - reduce No. of Ghost regiments - Do they even have them at all?
I agree using Mercenaries as diversionary elements would also be a bonus to the FC - especially if they have their own Jumpships.
I changed my Idea from CC to DC because I believe I/we have reached a point where all that could be said has been said - thus if we are never going to agree just let sleeping dogs lie - try something else and make a new discussion
Yes we could include the CC invasion also into this - either as a limited assault or a major assault - if limited the FC would want at a minimum their Jumpship production facilities - Major - Require all the Space (worlds) upto and including Sian and Grand Base - thus CC down to 1/4 of their Size prior to 4SW - they would also need a new capital World - also everyone would consider them to be the newest Periphery Power ? Ha Ha Ha (the newest FS Joke in all their Pubs once/if the Major Campaign succeeded)
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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Requiem
06/17/18 05:12 AM
58.175.193.140
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Extract Timeframe regarding the initial 3034 War:-
3030:
September 3030: Waterly met with Takashi's Heir-designate, Gunji-no-Kanrei Theodore Kurita, on Dieron to discuss Operation Rosebud.
3033:
February : Theodore Kurita makes an alliance with the Yakuza, which leads to the formation of the so-called Ghost Regiments.
June: The DCMS receives its first regiment of Star League era ‘Mechs from Comstar.
September: The DCMS receives its second regiment of Star League era ‘Mechs from Comstar.
December: The DCMS receives its third regiment of Star League era ‘Mechs from Comstar.
3034:
Early March: The DCMS receives its fourth regiment of Star League era ‘Mechs from Comstar.
March 13: newly elected Prince Haakon Magnusson declared the formation of the Free Rasalhague Republic
Late March: The Draconis Combine formally recognized the creation of the Free Rasalhague Republic.
May: The First Skye Rebellion begins. Hans Davion adheres to the advice provided by his Lyran affairs team and does nothing in regards to the Skye Rebellion, allowing it to “burn itself out overtime” when the resistance movement does not encounter any formal government resistance – Thus preserving the appearance of a harmonious FC relationship.
May: Meetings between Primus of ComStar Myndo Waterly and Ryan Steiner in this period culminated in an agreement – Information and priority access to HPG in exchange for justification for posting the Com Guards within the Lyran realm after an "unsanctioned" Free Skye attack against a ComStar facility in 3041.
May 23th: DCMS hardliners openly attack the Free Rasalhague Republic to prevent its secession, launching what will later be called the Ronin Wars.
Early June: The DCMS receives its fifth regiment of Star Leage era ‘Mechs from Comstar
June: The Ninth Rasalhague Regulars are destroyed on Engadin by the Second Genyosha.
Mid June: Archon Katrina Steiner of the Lyran Commonwealth and First Price Hanse Davion adhere to the strenuous objections of Duke Selvin Kelswa III, leader of the Tamar Pact, among others. Worlds they have taken from the Rasalhague District will remain within the FC by right of Operation conquest.
Mid June: Taking advantage of Ronin War, the Federated Commonwealth Initiated Operations Winterschnee, Sturmhammer, Gaheris, Launcelot and Orochi, invading both the Draconis Combine and the Capellan Confederation. The first wave’s aims, the conquest of the Draconic Combines entire Dieron District and the worlds within Capellan Confederation to ensure the capture of both their Capital Sian and that of Grand Base are absorbed into the Federated Commonwealth.
< The Wars progress is to be entered from here onwards – however, the following represents key IS historical notes not related to the war – Nt: Due to the war Comstar is unable to supply the DC with additional Star League era ‘Mech regimental units due to security concerns>
Late June: Seeking to further solidify his political position, Ryan Steiner marries Morasha Kelswa, heir to the Tamar Pact.
June 3035: The newly formed KungsArmé and DCMS loyalists succeed in defeating the rogue units, concluding the Ronin Wars. The last of the DCMS regiment withdraws from the Free Rasalhague Republic.
June 3035: Bombing on Marik kills leading family members of House Marik.
• Corinne Marik (Daughter of Paul Marik) is named Captain-General of the Free Worlds League by right of Succession.
July 3035: Duncan Marik initiates a civil war against the Parliamentary forces of Corinne Marik – Declaring himself Captain General of the Free Worlds league by right of experience and rank.
August 3035: Capellan Confederation are unsuccessful in recapturing Liao worlds taken by invading Duchy of Andurien and Magistracy of Canopus forces, as the FC invasion of 3034 have further depleted their available forces.
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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ghostrider
06/17/18 04:20 PM
66.74.61.223
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Time issue with the Ryan talks. It states 3034, yet the incident with the skye issue was 3041?
One more question. The loyalist DC forces. Wouldn't they get recalled with the FC invasion starting?
That would have a profound effect on the FRR and the DC relations and forces for the FRR.
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Requiem
06/17/18 07:01 PM
58.175.193.140
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3034 – Skye Rebellion – Comstar conducts talks with Ryan – an agreement is made;
3041 – Ryan’s Skye rebels attack a Comstar compound – giving Comstar their “justification” to place the Com Guards upon former LC worlds (Comstar’s HPG stations);
If the loyalist DC forces are called from FRR, whilst the Ronin War is being waged, this would leave the FRR Military to fight the DC Ronin forces on their own – thus you need to ask could the Ronin win, forcing FRR back into the DC – This could also have the secondary effect of invalidating the DC / Comstar agreement thus the DC would not receive any further “Ghost” / Star League ‘Mech Regiments .
This would therefore put Kurita in an impossible position …
Remove his troops from FRR to fight the invasion, an act that could destroy his agreement with ComStar. Or keep them in FRR, and reduce his response to the FC invasion with the hope that ComStar will keep their promise in the future.
So yes as you can see this would have a profound effect upon FRR / DC relations – remove troops and the FRR could fall just as it is being established – at the very least the FRR’s military would be the worse for the DCMS leaving for the FC invasion front .
You should also consider that if the FRR military appears to becoming overrun by DC Ronin the FC could offer the FRR military assistance thus putting the FRR clearly into the FC camp from then on!
Another point Kurita would have to consider when determining whether or not to remove his forces from the FRR during the Ronin War.
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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Requiem
06/19/18 02:05 AM
58.175.193.140
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So, how would the war go?
Kanrei Kurita would find himself unprepared for this war … given that the Ronin war has only just commenced … and he is undecided as to whether or not to send in a couple/all of his new Ghost Regiments into the War as they have only just completed training within hidden training facilities within the DC. (They are Green and therefore their performance in war would be a complete unknown as they have had only 11 months training at the most) .... or to keep them as a surprise for a future war or counterattack.
Therefore for the DC there is only a couple of paths 1st. keep their units remaining with in the FRR during the Ronin War in the hope it would end quickly – retaining their agreement with ComStar –and once complete allowing the their forces to enter into the FC invasion corridor
(and in all probability keep the existence of his Ghost Regiments hidden until all 13 are ready for combat)
I would therefore assume the FC military would experience initial gains – as the DC is unable to transfer additional forces from their other borders as this could become problematic due to the high level of raids they are experiencing as well as a reduced military within the Dieron area due to the Ronin War.
Once the Ronin War has been completed, and additional DCMS forces become available (ie. they have been repaired and transferred to the front) the FC advance would begin to slow, so mid second – early third wave, fighting would then intensify from there.
The War ceases within the Dieron region as DCMS and FC forces cease hostilities however the FC has gained ground up to either the start or mid third wave objective.
(Possible counterattack in the future lead by the ghost Regiments to win back their lost territory)
2nd path, remove all DCMS forces from the FRR – Ronin Forces continue to wage war against the FRR, the war intensifies as the Ronin take the DCMS forces retreat as a tacit acceptance of their war by their lord Kurita (This war’s duration and intensity will now be extended/increased).
With additional forces the DCMS, and in all likelihood all of the green Ghost Regiments engage the FC advance. Fighting quickly slows / stops the FC first wave assault and the DCMS forces engage each other.
In a twist of irony the FRR seek military assistance from the FC to provide support for their ongoing Ronin War (as it hs not been going well for them) – The FC sends in Mercenary as well as House Units into the FRR to drive back the Ronin Forces from the FRR.
With only the first wave, and possibly half of the second wave complete the FC and the DC cease hostilities within the Dieron Region – However the FRR has accepted FC forces on their worlds to deter any further DCMS invasions as the FC recognise their right to self-determination)
NT: The FC is still not going to return any worlds to the FRR.
With the realisation of the Ghost Regiments Hanse Davion dispatches his intelligence teams to discover their origins.
ComStar is now unwilling to provide the DC with any additional Star League era ‘Mechs due to a possible breach in security, therefore allowing Hanse Davion to find evidence as to ComStar’s duplicity with the DC.
Kurita finds itself is without any additional forces to take back the FC gains at this time.
Nt: A DEST attempt to assassinate the head of the LC military commanders was unsuccessful.
As to worlds of opportunity – maybe a couple changed hands.
So what’s your poison …. ? Path 1 or 2 and why?
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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ghostrider
06/19/18 11:23 AM
66.74.61.223
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Well not all of the ghost regiments are green. Some had mechs and used them. The fight on Lutien where Theodores friend died. He had a hunchback and was using it like he had training. Not sure of the back story, but I wouldn't be surprised if he had military training before, or even while the was in the yakuza.
As for the paths either could work. I would think the DC would pull forces out of the FRR, as the threat to home is more important then dealing with the ronin at this time. The question is, would he pull all of them? Or some of them?
Depending on how Takashi reacts or interfers, they may have even more losses, as units are moved around. The ghost regiments may be sent in, as Takashi would consider then honorless thugs, not fit to be in the DCMS.
It would be in line with the canon story with Takashi messing with Theodores deployments and battle plans.
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Requiem
06/19/18 06:07 PM
58.175.193.140
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Green relates to experience – they have all just exited training only – thus they are to be considered a green unit – after a couple battles then regular ….. etc. and being Yakuza …. A member of criminal underworld organisation … in which many members are called bullets (thus expendable) … does not mean that they understand military training / doctrine / understand how to work together to achieve overlapping fire arcs etc. … it just means you know how to pilot a ‘Mech put the cross hairs over the target and push a button to fire the weapon …..
Pulling forces out of the FRR is an all or nothing for me …. Pulling just some out shows a lack of commitment, which is not what a trained Samurai would do, and would also be considered a loss of face in front of his Generals … a very un-Kuritan approach to war in my opinion ….
If Theodore knew about the Ghost regiments, then yes he would consider them honourless –in all likelihood he would demand their ‘new’ Star League Era ‘Mechs to be handed over to the Sword of Light units as they are unfit to pilot such vehicles …. Thus you could end up with the Sword of Light Vs. the Ghost units …
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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ghostrider
06/22/18 03:32 PM
66.74.61.223
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The thought came up that it is being planned to counter the clans in the IS before anyone really knew of their existence.
The DC war seems to be needed to be a short war. Not something that might take 30 years or so. A complete full bleeding of Kuritian military. Civil insurrection in the Combine is much more likely then the clans, yet no mention of it here.
Leaving the CC in the original post sounds like there was something missed. But with that, the planning of the clans seems to be the main basis of this.
This is leaving a major logic hole in the game.
Now had it been said 'in my game, this is what happens.' But it looks like defending the idea, it appears it was believed to be that way in the canon version.
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Requiem
06/23/18 03:58 AM
58.175.193.140
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Yes, it is obvious, the writers did have the knowledge of the Clans in advance …. They needed the CC to remain as is … They needed the DC war to be short …. They needed the DC (and perhaps others) to have access to Star League era ‘Mechs and weapon systems …. If the IS forces do not have access to this, given the technological advantage the Clans were given there is no way the IS could have survived the initial invasion … boring game – no sales …. Their major exclusion however, that which was not included though it should have been, was a means of defeating a warship, for with this it gives the game a dimension and an ability to retaliate that is was lacking from the original – more fun – more chances for different types of wars in different settings – could this have led to more sales? May-bee.
The game designers made a real mistake here ….
As for a Civil Insurrection within the DC, their secret police are very good at what they do … say no more!
CC …. Yes something was missed, their destruction comes to mind …. However the IS needs them for the Clan Invasion …. Errrrr no? … back to the allegations that the 4SW was R______t and the only way it can be proved that it wasn’t is to ensure the resurgence of the CC?
Canon is Canon and cannot be changed …. Or can it?
Back to a request by me for a re-write?
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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ghostrider
06/23/18 04:14 AM
66.74.61.223
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There is alot that needs to be fixed, long before the 3025 era, much less afterwards. I don't think half the crap that happened would have, or would have been alot different.
Reverse engineering should have been done on any League mech found in storehouses. The crap of just coming out of the stone ages in the 3025 era is that. Crap. The NAIS would have had working models if not a full schematic ready for mass production. Even if it was just the double sinks. The good ones, not the brittle ones.
Even just using the units themselves for their elites would have happened. And it didn't.
As for the topic, the CC should not have survived the fourth war. But as noted, they could not use it to start more wars in the future without them.
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Requiem
06/24/18 05:40 AM
58.175.193.140
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Yes I agree, there is a lot that needs to be addressed such as those issues you have addressed.
This would then provide the IS forces with additional resources to fight the oncoming Clans ….
As for the CC and the 4SW …
In order for the complete destruction of the CC the war’s duration would have to be extended by 12 to 18 months … therefore the DC would fight an extended war with more planets being won and lost by both sides with no real clear winner … the CC is destroyed, their empire annexed into the FC … and the FWL, sometime during this 12 – 18 months the FWL would seek a capitulation of hostilities – Hanse would therefore demand multiple worlds as the price – and this would be paid by them – Politically we would then need to ask if the Captain General could survive such an action or be required to abdicate …. Me, I would suggest abdication as he is now a failed leader..
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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Requiem
07/02/18 07:31 AM
58.175.193.140
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With a new capitol world between the federated Suns and the Lyran Commonwealth –also its proximity to Terra – a declaration of becoming the next “First Lord of a resurrected Star League” …
A political statement that must be made post 4SW …
How would you name this new world?
Theology –
Mythology (Norse / Camelot) – Valhalla / Camelot
The last Lord of the Star League “Cameron” –
Or a single word of power and strength. –
Historical – Rome, Athens, Troy, London
Suggestions …..
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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ghostrider
07/02/18 12:25 PM
66.74.61.223
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There lies a very big can of worms. Any change to capital worlds for either side of the FC would set off a lot of issues with both sides.
Founding one for the entire FC is probably what you are talking about, while keeping New Avalon/Tharkad as being the capital of the FS/LC keeping those people happy.
And with your alt of the FC being the dominant nation, why not just take Terra? That historic world would say more about subjecting the others to their will then even first lord title. It would also show dominance over Comstar as well.
And change out the name of first lord. First Prince would be more appropriate for the FS side at least. First Archon would make the LC side happy.
And to be honest. What would say strength in a single world, more then the birth world of the entire human race?
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Requiem
07/02/18 07:47 PM
58.175.193.140
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ComStar is the third rail of the Inner Sphere – touch it and Zapp…
Unfortunately you cannot invade and take Terra – Politics get in the way, as ComStar is still a power block and, more importantly, people require a “sense of certainty”, in that ComStar is underpinning the idea that the Star League could be resurrected.
Also, without ComStar the entire HPG net throughout the entire Inner Sphere will Crash causing absolute havoc – destroying entire economies and societies on many worlds due to a lack of food, medicine etc.
Also how will the military react to invasions if they don’t know its occurring …..
Thus ComStar must, due to politics, be the last to fall – they must be seen as the kingmaker – they must give their acceptance (forced by the winner) as to who the next First Lord of the resurrected Star League is to be.
Suggestions of names for the capitol of the FC?
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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Requiem
07/03/18 07:02 AM
58.175.193.140
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Suggestions:-
Sovereynte’ – (Sovereignty) From the Wedding of Sir Gawain and Dame Ragnelle
Libertatum - (Magna Carta) – Liberty
Reformation
Hope
Valkyrie
Rubicon
Artemis
Asgard
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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ghostrider
07/03/18 08:43 PM
66.74.61.223
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Interesting that so much faith is put into the black boxes, yet it is suggested that the FC needs comstar.
And there is nothing wrong with reestablishing the Star League from earth, with comstar being the protector of the coms system.
Making it the capital of the FC, would be the ultimate victory for the FC. The ego thing about needing to be first lord should point this direction, but some how doesn't. Does that mean the argument used before doesn't work here?
Destroying comstar may well be how the FC would finally rule the other houses. No coms past the terrain corridor except for jumps ships would mean news could not reach the other nations quick enough to do anything.
As suggested, every world should have one as well as every RCT. No coms going out of the FC, so spies would not be able to report out, yet a simple relay in other nations would allow your spies to get information in.
Wait. Did that show one of the major steps in war could be accomplished?
Destroying the enemies ability to attack your forces.
Do you blindly strike out, hoping that you did not send your troops into a trap, or worse, they get stuck there and destroyed at the enemies leisure?
It was during the 3039 war that the DC got ahold of the black boxes. If that didn't happen, then the FC would have the means to blind the entire IS. Destroy the HPGs on worlds as you can. No more organized forces to help them.
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Requiem
07/03/18 10:15 PM
58.175.193.140
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Attacking and conquering ComStar Circa 3040 is quite impossible for a number of reasons 1. Public Perception 2. Politics 3. Technological 4. Economics
1. Public Perception:-
Remember they are a quasi-religious order who are also a humanitarian organisation a public benevolent organisation and a communications organisation all at the same time.
Thus in our terms it is a mix of Dali Lama, with Unicef, Dr’s without borders, Green Peace and CNN all in one.
2. Politics:-
If anyone would use their military on such an organisation, both their citizens and their military would believe their leader had ‘slipped a gear’ to the point they needed replacement – even though their intelligence organisation would understand the reasons.
3. Technological:-
How would a state be able to coerce each HPG’s Comstar Acolytes (on every planet) to operate the HPG machinery – as they are the only ones who know how to operate them?
(again you would think the military would balk at such an idea of using force upon ComStar)
4. Economics:-
With an unwilling Acolyte refusing to send messages the economy of the state would implode, destroying whole planets economies that could take generations to fix.
Back to the Capital Worlds Name then?
Argo (for the Argonauts)
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
Edited by Requiem (07/03/18 10:19 PM)
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ghostrider
07/03/18 10:46 PM
66.74.61.223
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Where did you get the question of forcing comstar to operate the HPGs?
Nothing was said to force them to do anything of the sort.
Suggesting the black boxes would be massed produced and give to all planetary leaders, as well as military leaders, how did you get forcing comstar to send messages?
The fact comstar had already hit the FS with an interdiction would well be why the FC would remove their influence from the FC. It would be difficult, but not impossible to use comstars actions to justify this. Something as simple as providing 'evidence' of them giving the other nations information about the military and even business dealings in the FC. Implications are more effective then actual facts for this sort of action. Even using counter attacks and pirate raids could be made to look as comstar is trying to do harm to the people.
The IS population would be more willing to believe such information then the clan population would believe their way of life is not the right way of life.
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Requiem
07/03/18 11:41 PM
58.175.193.140
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If you conquer Terra – how do you get each HPG station to operate? Force or bribery ?
You still require HPGs even if you did have the Black Boxes - they have limited amount of information that can be sent as they are little better than a Fax Machine where a HPG is e-mail with video and data compression allowing huge amounts of information to be sent at one time – so yes you will still need the HPG even if you also have the Black Boxes.
As for getting people to believe ComStar is an evil organisation could you say that of many of the humanitarian organisation that are in existence today …. It would be that difficult
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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ghostrider
07/04/18 02:51 AM
66.74.61.223
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Why worry about the HPGs?
You use the black boxes from then on, so there is no need for the HPG. And there will be some that will come over from Comstar to work for the FC.
Even spies sent into the organization will know how to run them. Not all were found by ROM. The one from the DC that warned of operation Scorpion is a good one for an example.
Greed will bring out those willing to work the network, as the lure of being in charge of the one they work at, instead of being the janitor will bring forth those willing to do so.
The way Katherine is written, she is a manipulator of epic proportions. Simple things like delaying in shipping supplies needed to a world could start the chain of blaming Comstar for not sending the message, or suggesting they didn't receive it. Katherine is very much capable and willing to assassinate anyone that gets in her way, so the first circuit would be a minor issue. Take out their jumpships as they travel the stars. Blame pirates and such. You wanted your so called duck. She is it.
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Requiem
07/04/18 05:38 AM
58.175.193.140
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Why Worry about HPGs?
As stated before – the size and speed of data that can be transferred – it is the difference between a Fax Machine and the Internet e-mail system
I suggest you conduct more research re “ducks” …. Katherine is just you run of the mill dictator …. She is very far removed from being a “duck”, so therefore no she is not a “Duck”.
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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ghostrider
07/04/18 06:14 PM
66.74.61.223
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So these boxes would not be able to send data like video?
Katherine is more likely to kill others then any run of the mill dictator. She is one to use military and economical might to extort and bring anyone to the knees that even hinted are resisting her. She didn't really care how many people died from it. When this did not work, she would have them all killed, but declaring them traitors, or assassins.
The only thing she didn't do is discriminate against specific races. She would kill any and all, no matter who they were. Even family. So how is this not one that shines as an example of a duck?
The only difference is the military was not fanatical about killing civilians that stepped out of line.
In most ways, she is worse then the way you describe the clans. At least they all knew the laws, and knew what to expect.
She buried the misdeeds by propaganda and out right lies.
There is no defending her. She was rotten to the core and willing to do whatever to be the first lord.
With this, it makes sense on why the alt history goes the way it does. Katherine is being portrayed as the savior of the IS.
Defending the alt history as the only way it has to go is pushing the idea on others.
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