Requiem
07/05/19 02:54 AM
1.158.130.13
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Canon – People believed in the rumor that Victor killed his mother.
My Alt. – It is a question of Integrity – A question of an absentee ruler who would rather be on the front lines – warmonger.
Canon – Melissa’s reputation.
My Alt. – Pharmaceuticals / Video manipulation / Conspiracy to destroy reputation through the mass media etc.
No logic holes!
Information manipulation via “Black Box” relay – bribery / Loki agent loyal of Katherine / Sabotage / exchange of message real for fake etc. – even Morgan cannot ensure message compliance if you are able to put a spy in the right spot at the right time.
I do not believe there would be mass exploration of resources within the periphery circa 3039 – you might have one or two large corporations as well as an equally small number or “pirate” operators attempting a get-rich-quick job for very rare metals etc.
Yes, corporations do have massive lobby power commensurate with their wealth – however Houses have large contracts / Tax inducements of their own. In addition if you corporation looks like it is going to be taken away by a foreign military power – no insurance, no compensation – who would you be going to ask for a favor from?
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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ghostrider
07/05/19 05:14 PM
66.74.60.165
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As shown in the novels, the black box could reach from DC border to New Avalon. That is more then how deep Victor would be. It would not be instantaneous, but would get there.
Plus if the SLDF was involved or Comstar, they would be keeping Victor informed. Even ships making supply runs would have information.
And didn't Morgan Kell run with Katrina during the Red Corsair days before she took over? Katrina's husband was Heimdall. So that should open up issues.
And like all media manipulations, a lot of people would not believe it. After Melissa is out of 'rehab' she could very well change what damage the media did. Not all of it, but enough to stop Katherine from gaining more power like that.
And let's not forget people like the Brewer family knows Melissa. I don't think even tax breaks and such would move him from supporting Melissa.
First off, exploring the periphery doesn't mean towards the clans exclusively. And it doesn't mean just the FC or DC. But even with that, someone like Defiance could very well be looking for ores to make mechs with. The FC/LC commands would make sure if they did, the planet would have mech forces on it. Now that is just one of the biggest.
There are also corporations that operate in a few states. Ownership doesn't seem to be an issue, but management changes. I have yet to hear of any successor lords owning ANY of the factories making war materials. Now unless that has changed, most states would not remove the owners as much as changing management to meet their desires.
Now. Offering to sell to the one most likely to take any factory is a good way to avoid seizure. In fact, it might be a good idea to do so, as they may supply some protection.
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Requiem
07/06/19 04:56 AM
1.158.130.13
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A Coup de tar is a “sudden” overthrow of a government and seizure of political power. It could be years I the making and one hour in the completion if executed correctly.
However with a popular uprising it could be all over in a couple of days if it too is choreographed correctly.
Remember even with a command circuit how long will it take for him to reach the Capitol of of the FC – The Planet formerly known as New Earth and given the new name of Anschluss (Connection) following the end of the 4th Succession War as a symbol of connecting the two realms into one (and to tell every house post 4th Succession War that Hanse is going to be the next First Lord in bright neon letters) – Or Tharkad for that Matter.
So by the time he even attempts to reach this world from the Deep Periphery it will be all over.
Heimdall – is the loyal opposition – it was set up to ensure Loki did not go overboard with curtailing the freedom of the people it was not set up as an anti-Coup force. It was also set up as individual cells – so who is to say if some cells didn’t support her?
Yes this is quite true many people would not believe the media, however many still support their candidate despite the opposition – without getting political can I just say the current approval / disapproval rates of many heads of state – Paris, Germany, England, America, Australia, Turkey etc. as an example.
Unfortunately I believe the Brewer Family would support her – she is viewed more Steiner than Davion – Robinson, that would be a different matter I doubt the Draconis March would support her – but once she has the power there is very little they can do, that is unless you believe they will initiate a bid for independence from the FC.
Yes, I agree exploring does not mean directly towards the Clans. And it doesn’t mean just the FC and the DC – my above note suggested FC, DC, FRR, Bears, Cats, Large Corporations, Individuals (and I should have also included Religious Communities).
I am saying that one the military has established transport routes it will be easier for any company / individual pioneer train moving into the wild wild west to be far easier than striking off on your own into unknown territory. In addition military surveyors / geologists etc would have created detailed reports as to every planet they have been to. And if they are leaked to certain companies / individuals in advance this will just fan the flames for a new exodus (homesteading) within the deep periphery.
Ownership
Defiance Industries passed to the Lyran Commonwealth who ASSIGNED control to the Brewer Family. Ownership – Steiner – CEO – Brewer
May I suggest business takeover strategies and the protection theories that go with it – However, once a world is taken everything of any worth will be transferred to the new state – the state will then assign a new management and security unit. The old owners will have no legal rights for compensation or the right to challenge the change in ownership - it is just a fait accompli.
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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ghostrider
07/06/19 05:43 PM
66.74.60.165
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Once Melissa was 'sick', Victor would have returned home to find out why. Melissa was in charge of the FC entirely when Hanse died. This is why Katherine had to kill her in canon. I don't really see a way around it in the alt. Conflicts of logic abound here. So he would have been on the way at least when Katherine started her moves.
I doubt Victor would have been leading from the front after hearing about his mother.
In canon, he felt like those he left in charge could do it. Katherine was undermining them which is known.
With Melissa being alive, I doubt Victor would have become the 'great' general to chase the clans back, and took up actually running the governments.
I think with both parents gone, he threw himself into military thinking to avoid feeling their loss.
With the alt, this does lead to the question of if Hanse actually would have the heart attack. The realm would have been much better off, with the clans being more like the 4th war then an invasion that they were losing. Probably would still have it, but the catalyst wouldn't be the same.
Unfortunately I believe the Brewer Family would support her – she is viewed more Steiner than Davion.
I would assume you are talking Katherine with this one, but the point that Melissa would have made a media statement that she was taken hostage by Katherine. I would think the Brewers would follow Melissa, but the whole thing with Defiance and such wasn't about politics so much as what would happen if the IS splintered.
However, once a world is taken everything of any worth will be transferred to the new state.
This is not true with military factories. There were a few that changed hands in the 4th and 3039 that are still on the worlds they were originally. Hell, the panther factory in the FRR would have been moved inside the more stable regions, instead of being left in the middle of the rebellious Rasslehague, when the DC first conquered them.
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Requiem
07/07/19 04:52 AM
1.158.130.13
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I disagree, Victor would not return home, even if his mother was ill – first, he would view his duty is to that of the soldiers and the prosecution of the war – second, it is not very easy for the deputy commander who is in the field to pack up and leave at a moment’s notice. Succession theory would suggest it should be – however in this case I cannot see him relinquishing is post.
It also comes down to if in the Alt – his personality is changed from that of the canon.
(Katherine’s agents – heartless son who would rather be a warmonger that be at his mother’s side whilst she is ill – those who ever served however would know better)
Yes, you may have point Ghostrider, in that with the death of both of his parents this may have been the catalyst for producing the great general within the canon. As this is just an Alt however I am just going to assume he naturally evolved over time to become the great general.
Yes I am going to give Hanse the heart attack as per cannon - there needs to be a change in the rulers from Hanse to Victor sometime during the Clan Invasion – though I could give it a couple of more years if I want.
The Brewers
Yes I did mean Katherine – if they too have a younger lord rather than that who ruled at the same time of Melissa - yes I can see hem supporting her, especially if she had a hand in the “retirement” of the old lord if you get my drift. If you have the older Lord still in power I cannot see him/her shifting their support from Melissa to Katherine.
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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ghostrider
07/07/19 12:22 PM
66.74.60.165
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it is not very easy for the deputy commander who is in the field to pack up and leave at a moment’s notice.
You do know that retreats do this all the time?
Unless knee deep in enemy bodies, it wouldn't take that long. Even a day wouldn't be too much considering dropship to jumpship, then jumps to where ever. Charging delays if the command circuit isn't available would be the longest issue there.
Another thought comes up with Melissa still in the picture, Yvonne and Peter would not have been so easily pushed into retiring. They would have been doing a 'better job' with mom around. And once mom 'recovered', they would start fighting back as well. They would have been looking into the stories of Mom being 'sick'.
Now there is ways to get around the General Estates backing Melissa, one of which requires Katherine to do something she may not be able to undo. Give the Estates more power. In the end, she would try to take it back, but for the time being, it would set a dangerous opportunity to supplement Katherine for say Yvonne, or someone else they can control easier then Katherine.
Also Focht is still alive. He would know how to counter Katherines manipulations somewhat. Any sort of assassination attempt on his life, may well cause issues with the whole League. If proven to be from Katherine.
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Requiem
07/07/19 05:05 PM
1.158.130.13
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An organised retreat involves the movement of the entire unit from point A to Point B – establish a new base etc, and as such the Commander remains with the Unit.
When a commander retires from the field this requires him / her handing over all their responsibilities / knowledge to another and leaving the Unit on their own (together with an an aide if one has been assigned) and travelling to the rear via whatever transport is available (usually re-supply ships).
Then there is the perceived loss status for a Unit’s Commander when they retire from the field whilst their unit remains on the filed – as what it usually means is they have failed and are being replaced by a more capable officer and many may see it as such.
Thus if you do not explain what is going on rumour may spread – and not in the good way – throughout the unit thus Victor could end up ‘loosing’ the respect of some of his troops when he retires from the field (and even if he did explain he could still ‘loose’ their respect).
It is not an easy decision to make – stay in an attempt to retain unit cohesion (at the expense of filial duties) – retire from the field and possibly damage unit cohesion whilst fulfilling your filial duties.
So what it comes down to is what is most important at the time of the decision.
Yvonne, Peter and Arthur
In the canon story I find the characters of Yvonne, Peter and Arthur to be quite contrived, bland and very one dimensional – the question must be asked if this was done on purpose so that they didn’t want them upstaging the main characters of Katherine and Victor?
In the real world however (and especially in my Alt.) these three characters need to evolve way beyond that of the canon – thus they will no longer be the wallflowers they are portrayed as in the canon.
Both Peter and Arthur need to become warriors and over time they could even rival that of Victor in their ability – together with their own Units and friends.
Arthur – One of the Robinson Rangers – Strong ties with the Draconis March / Sandoval family etc.
Peter – I am going to have him establish a new unit – and just to keep things interesting his main ally will be Kali Liao (introduced to him by Justin Xiang Allard).
As for Yvonne her character, she needs to be completely revamped – in my Alt – over time she will become a consummate Warrior / Politician – the equal of both Victor and Katherine in both their respective fields – one day both Katherine and Victor will wake up and find that she is no longer their naïve young sister but a capable woman who could give them both a run for their money.
With “Mother” now with Victor in the Deep Periphery with his soon to be Bride Omika Kurita you can see this will cause friction within the family – Katherine gains an ally in Arthur and through him access to manipulate the Draconis March in her favour? As for both Peter and Yvonne – wild cards.
The Estates General has always been a place of politicking, factionalism and the exercise of power and favours – I am going to provide Katherine with the ability to take control of this most “esteemed” body over that of her mother – like many stories the fops will not know what is really happening until it is far too late and by then if they step out of line – well we all know what happens to those who displease Katherine, don’t we?
Focht is a member of ComStar and also he is the Commanding General of the SLDF – as long as he gets his re-supplies / people etc and Katherine does not meddle in the war he will not cause issues with her. He has given up his old life and embraced the new. Yes he may have noticed what was going on but he may have decided not to do anything also.
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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ghostrider
07/07/19 07:22 PM
66.74.60.165
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Focht is a member of ComStar and also he is the Commanding General of the SLDF
When a commander retires from the field this requires him / her handing over all their responsibilities / knowledge to another and leaving the Unit on their own (together with an an aide if one has been assigned) and travelling to the rear via whatever transport is available (usually re-supply ships).
Doesn't this cover the units in the periphery? Focht should have been in charge while giving unit commanders their orders. Victor would have just been one of those in the chain of command, not the over all leader.
A change in leadership isn't that difficult. If it was, they would never swap them out in the field. And it happens alot more then you might think.
More then a few times commanders were recalled to answer for something that happened. So why would it be an issue that Victor take off to check his mother. The troops under him would be concerned about here to, especially the LC troops from the FC.
Them knowing, and having him stay would create more problems with moral.
One more thing about Focht. He knew Katherine was a bad apple.
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Requiem
07/07/19 10:09 PM
1.158.130.13
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Ghostrider,
I am just retiring the individual General and her/his aide to the rear – I need the Unit to remain where it is – as it may be engaged with the enemy.
Rotating out a unit for an incoming unit might prove problematic – especially if the enemy decided to launch a full scale assault at the time – both friendly forces could be caught left footed as it were and without it usual Commanding Officer – Thus the units morale / confidence in the new CO might be low for a time!
One of the issues of war is that when you are the Commanding officer you cannot micro manage everything – you need to delegate tasks and responsibility – Yes Focht may be able to have an overreaching command but on the ground this is an entirely different situation. At a point you have to trust those on the ground to get the job done.
As for Victor – he has a dual role –
- as Second in overall Command he would be attached to HQ;
- If the Area of Attack is too large (multiple systems and planets) areas will be needed to created, in which each area has its own chain of Command leading back to HQ – e.g. think about the D-Day Landings. Victor may very well be in charge of an area attack involving many units upon many planets within many different systems at the same time – pulling him out therefore will cause problems for everyone under his command.
- However, as CO of the Tenth he needs to be on the battlefield wen required – as a CO of one of the truly elite units his unit needs to be a ready reaction unit that can respond to any crisis if an when it develops.
Yes I agree it does happen often, however, whenever you do swap one out there will always be a slight period where the units under this command are slightly concerned about their new CO.
Relieving someone of Victor’s stature of his command, even for a short time, will be noticed by everyone within the army and they will speculate as to what is going on – anxiety increases etc. – performance drops off etc.
In this situation you would withhold any information about his Mother’s heath to the troops – you need to keep their minds on the enemy and not daydreaming about something that is beyond their control.
Yes, Focht may have known she (Katherine) was not what you would call a stand up person – but at the time he also did nothing because Melissa was with her – hindsight is a wonderful thing but at the time there is little he could say / do as she is Victors sister, and she is next in line for the throne and being bad is one of the job requirements when you are in line to becoming the head of the state. You have to be willing to send people off to their death – you have spies who lie and cheat for you etc – you have to be able to give someone an order to assassinate individuals etc when necessary. So being bad can be considered a virtue when you are next in line for the throne – you won’t be squeamish when it comes time to kill off people.
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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ghostrider
07/08/19 03:25 AM
66.74.60.165
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Might not be able to hide the info. Normal coms on civilian stations would report that Melissa has been out of sight. Might not say why, but this should give them a clue.
Also, I don't know it a full black out while the troops are in the field would be in effect, so personal messages to the soldiers could well tell them Melissa was out of sight.
With the alt changing the amount of troops, would Victor have been assigned to the 10th guards?
Or maybe one of the house regiments, like the Davion Heavy guards or some other unit with a great rep?
Might be Melissa would assign him to the throne mech duty, to avoid him dying so soon after Hanse.
This is suggesting other commanders are not that great.
Which gave me the idea for a suggestion on Yvonne.
The idea is that a failed attempt on her life made her realize, she had to get her act together. If she wanted to beat Katherine, she would have to learn it all.
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Requiem
07/08/19 05:57 AM
1.158.130.13
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In the IS they will know that Melissa is having “issues”. However in the Deep Periphery I doubt they will have wifi whilst on active duty.
Whilst on active duty I am absolutely positive that most forms of communication / information as what is occurring in the inner sphere will become restricted to approved information – though with re-supply / receipt of mail these will always include non-approved information.
Victor will be assigned to the 10th if and when it is deemed hat his command is required for a specific mission. If another unit is required I would just include then in the TO&E and place them under his command.
Like all mothers I believe she would want to keep Victor safe – but that is a little hypocritical when many other mothers send their children in harm’s way – Victor and the royal family must lead the way through example, this includes being on the front line.
This is not suggesting other commanders are not great it’s a question of optics – if Victor wasn’t that great they would have given him a minder to watch over him and keep him safe.
Yes I like the idea you have for Yvonne – this could quite conceivable be put into the story. Thanks
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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vanlisur
03/15/22 03:23 AM
27.58.169.35
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if you have the large aero wings taking out and holding jump points and supply depots, how would the clans even get anything of size there? The SLDF would have anything within jumping radius mined/guarded, so at least they could get off a warning to the main HQ.
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ghostrider
03/15/22 11:06 AM
45.51.181.83
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You can still use pirate points to jump into systems. They are not stable, so one hour one might be just outside the orbit of the moon towards deep space, while the next, it may well be near Jupiter in the Sol system. Three days from now, there may be one near Mars. It is very resource intensive to try and block access to a whole system.
Also, if you have the resources, a jump bomb set up can be made. During the WOB Jihad, they used throw away jump drives to get forces across longer distances that a 'safe' jump drive could reach. A suicide ship ladened with explosives could be used to remove stations and such. The question is if the clans would used such a device. They would likely have troops bid to be part of it,, so it wouldn't be a 'dirty' attack.
The big issue is if the clans would see what is being done and actually change their war strategies to counter it. The large wing concept would need to be started before the clans showed up, which is why most suggest it is countering the future without knowing it was coming.
And it would take the clans 15 years minimum to even begin to increase their aero forces, as they would use the iron womb with DNA from their proven pilots. Training would also likely have to be changed some, as they could not sit back and try for the 1-3 out of 100 to graduate, as the sibko system seems to do.
Increasing the items produced doesn't seem to be a problem, as the clans hatred of waste seems to be what limits the amount of machines they build.
One way the clans could counter the large wing tactic is to destroy the IS jump ship production, as they aren't tied to the clans own production. No jumpships made, means all forces are locked into the system they are currently in. It will take time to destroy the ones that are already made, but it will start limiting the IS to figure out where they need to protect. Also, no jump ship manufacturing means no warship manufacturing.
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