ghostrider
02/14/20 12:58 PM
66.74.60.165
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Maybe a lack of understanding just what the SL really is.
Your example of the U.N. comes to mind. It was a political union of 6 different nations that were all supposed to be equal. Suggesting the SL was a nation of it's own might well be were the issue lies. It was centered in the TH area, but it wasn't just the TH that made it.
So who was the nation that really controlled it? Was it the TH? Or was it just an entity that existed as long as all the members wanted it to exist?
The TH would have wanted to keep manufacturing confined to their area, which may well be why it wasn't suggesting using member facilities to increase the SLDF.
Another issue that seems to be forgotten is the people that can run the SL. How many of them survived the Amaris purge? It isn't likely Kerensky had hordes of lawyers and law makers in the military. So WHO would be working to represent the SL?
How skilled would they really be, and would they be respected to do anything? Most of the governmental staff may well be dead, so how is to replace them?
Manipulate by using terms that can be warped, and having someone kill the ruling person is a far different idea. Convincing someone that building a factory in my area, as to shorten the supply lines to the periphery for controlling them, is more likely that saying I am first lord because I just killed the last one.
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Requiem
02/14/20 02:58 PM
1.158.235.15
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Question is there a copy of the Star League Accords that were signed by Ian Cameron and the five house lords on July 9, 2571?
Other than that all we have is anecdotal evidence:-
“the Star League was a self-policing interstellar council formed from the Terran Hegemony, the Great Houses of the Inner Sphere, and the Territorial States of the Periphery.”
“Though not completely stable, the relative peace, prosperity, and advanced technology of the Star League have led many to consider the Star League as the zenith of human civilization.”
And what was written within each of the House books on this subject ….
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So who was the nation that really controlled it?
Ans: First Lord, the High Council (including the house lords) and the Bureau of Star League Affairs.
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The TH would have wanted to keep manufacturing confined to their area
Not so have a look at why the first lord wanted a single currency “The Cameron-bill” once trade started there was go going back.
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Another issue that seems to be forgotten is the people that can run the SL. How many of them survived the Amaris purge?
Another point that has no answer, however it must have been enough to keep the money flowing and the ability to start on fixing the damage and looking after the refugees.
Other than that who knows.
As for replacing them – considering the populations upon many of the TH worlds, even after all the damage, there is more than enough to restart the bureaucracy and for it to increase in size over time.
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Manipulate by using terms that can be warped,
Though very effective … Katherine for example?
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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ghostrider
02/14/20 05:15 PM
66.74.60.165
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The first lord is not who was the NATION that really controlled the SL?
Which of the 6 was actually in control of it? DC, CC, FWL, FS, LC, TH?
Hmmm. The HQ was on Terra, deep in the TH.
Assigning a common note is not the same as keeping the manufacturing to the TH area. That would prevent the houses from becoming to powerful, if they didn't have their own facilities. Hmmmm. This sounds like a tactic most would use. Buy from us and don't have your own industries to do something. Short leash comes to mind.
Being able to do a job half way, and being trained and knowledgable to run it smoothly is a different story. And with that, you have new people in, that can scam things easily as no one really knows what is what.
There is a constant supply of scams going on, and the only way you can get rid of it, is to remove the buddies of the scammers in high places, then remove the scammers.
Amaris was one that seemed to be good at it. Had it not been for his other activities, he may well have been first lord. The brutal occupation was one of the biggest issues there.
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Requiem
02/14/20 11:51 PM
1.158.235.15
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In practical terms the TH was in charge as the First Lord was a Cameron.
In theoretical terms all the houses and the First Lord had an equal vote (an were equally in charge) via the Council.
A common note is a reference to a single currency – ie Europe all use the single Euro …
Again with the negative waves?
Whilst working in a company usually you have a running diary as to what you have completed and what remains to be completed, so that if you are hit by a bus someone can just walk in and take over your job at a moment’s notice – the organization also maintained its own education team, books, videos, computer tutorials, that are used to maintain your level of education / understanding – so I doubt it would be that difficult to retrain and get back to work – it will just take some time to train and even more to up to date.
Amaris ….. first lord …. He would have had to marry into the line of succession first ….
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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ghostrider
02/15/20 01:01 AM
66.74.60.165
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So what power did Kerensky have to block the house lords when they all voted against him? Drop a unit on their home worlds? Not at all likely. So when they voted to strip him, he could do what exactly? When they disbanded the SL, what could he have done?
There was no one but the Hegemony that might have been able to keep him afloat, but it seems that wasn't going to happen either.
I know about a universal currency. The U.S. dollar has been one of the standards for ages, though more then a few countries are trying to move away from it.
Now. Take your company example and execute every one in there. Now. Tell me how do you run the company when you have no clue on where anything is, or worse. Someone deleted or changed that information before you got to it? A mechanic is not likely to know how to build a tv, or microwave oven. So unless they had people that did do so, stay with the job and not been killed, it isn't likely they would find what they wanted to.
I doubt it would be that bad, but passwords and file locations leave a lot to be needed.
And negative waves?
How about saying the SLDF commander was a coward because he didn't die protecting a dead nation?
Edited by ghostrider (02/15/20 01:02 AM)
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Requiem
02/15/20 05:19 AM
1.158.235.15
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So what power did Kerensky have to block the house lords when they all voted against him?
As stated previously – the veto.
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So when they voted to strip him, he could do what exactly?
They, the House Lords, do not have veto power – only the First Lord would have this power, and as Kerensky is the Regent by extension he would also have the power to veto any document.
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When they disbanded the SL, what could he have done?
This requires an understanding of how to fight wars in the media ….
Upon finishing the Amaris Conflict …..
<Making sure every news agency is present so that the entire IS receives a copy of the following via HPG>
Hold a very public and very ostentatious military funeral for the Camerons who were slain in the Throne Room …. remember to include in the eulogy every patriot who died in the cause of “keeping the Star League Alive” ….
Then declare at the grave side (mausilium) and on the coffin of Richard II Cameron (draped in the Star League Flag) that you (Kerensky) hereby resume you position as regent and as the Protector of the Realm and you will hold the league together in his name …. He must also state that it is not his intention to seize the position of First Lord, it is his duty to preserve the Star League …
Then count the seconds until the House lords arrive on Terra furious at being out maneuvered on the news and in the hearts of every person, who believes in the ideals of the Inner Sphere.
As Regent and Protector of the Realm the House lords have now lost any opportunity they once had to remove him from his other position as CO of the SLDF …. As for all intense and purposes he is the First Lord at this point in time and he must act as such ….
He then convenes the extraordinary Council Meeting where he produces the new Star League Accords …
He then states that this document will be signed by every house and they will remain on the Terra where they, and their families, will be protected by the SLDF where they will form the new Star League Grand Council as well as all the new rules etc as to the power sharing scheme…
He then lets them know the benefits – total access to all TH technology (including military) as well as opening the TH economy to every House as a free trade area (wealth increased military technology) ….
He then makes sure they understand the consequences of any who goes against this plan …..
He then states he will remain on for a short period of time to ensure the safe transition of power, and at the end of this period he will retire …
He also makes sure they understand the transition in the SLDF to the SL Protection F and what that will mean for everyone …
At the end He then reminds them of the lengths he will go to maintaining the SL – he lets them know in no uncertain circumstances of every war crime he has committed – every use of a WMD to win against Amaris and what he will do to any state’s Capitol and the Lord and their family if the cross him on this ….
Company ….. more of those negative waves? …. Everything is on the server as well as the backup servers hidden in a secondary location …..
Question how many worlds / population per world is still alive at the end of Amaris – and how many of those are civil servants that can be transferred over?
Passwords … there is usually a way to override it by security.
Fact …..
The SL was still alive – the SLDF were still there;
The Exodus – DESERTION!
So no, there are no negative waves!
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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ghostrider
02/15/20 01:20 PM
66.74.60.165
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Again. What power did Kerensky have to stop them?
A veto isn't going to do anything, as it would be 5 to 1 against him. It is stated the SL was created to make all nations equal. So one vote nay, 5 votes yay. How do you veto this?
Media wars? You do understand that by the time the media actually gets others motivated in large numbers, the damage is already done, and that the 5 houses would be doing the same to counter any such idea. It is more probably that the houses are already deep into such a feat before they voted him down.
You left out the most important issue with the so called diary of how to corral the house lords.
Who is to become the first lord?
As it would be a good assumption he tried to keep things together and none of the house lords would agree to any one thing.
But then that would be assuming he didn't try all this. I mean 2 years after official disbandment of the SL of going to all the house lords was for tea and crumpets. Right?
Secondary locations... Do you think that Amaris's people didn't find those and destroy or move them? Even multiple back ups would go missing or be destroyed. Any sort of information storage, such as libraries would be raided of information the conflicts with the current rulers agenda. Not everything would be found, but enough that a simple take up the old logs and follow them would work well.
And password security? Any smart person would have a battery back up with those files and auto delete them if you screw up the password so many times. Shutting off the power may well do the same. Granted that depends on just how secret they are, so normal information may not be protected so well.
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Requiem
02/15/20 03:39 PM
1.158.235.15
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Again. What power did Kerensky have to stop them?
Three sources of power are available ….
First, the side of the remaining SLDF fleet is still more lethal than any undamaged House force – plus the SLDF can be considered to be an Elite unit – whereas each House unit are still green as grass ….
Second, Kerensky himself, his titles, his victories, the aura he exudes upon those around him as well as his past titles Regent / Defender of the Realm …. He must have an incredible ability to intimidate people … even house lords can be intimidated by certain people, and Kerensky, he is one such person.
Lastly, by communicating through the media - to reach out and communicate to the people of the IS and convince them of the righteousness of his cause … how many within the IS would heed his call to stabilize the IS if he asked it off them
When used correctly each one of these would provide power, combine them and his authority and power would be awesome to behold throughout the IS …. As long as he is willing to play his part – based upon the image people believe in him that he has …. Not the reality of the old man he has become.
Time is his enemy in this situation – he must get the House Lords on Terra to begin negotiation as soon as the Amaris conflict ends, by hook or by crook …
If his image shifts from the great warrior and general to the tired old man in the media he will lose much of his power to enforce his will on others ….
<and this is what happened … he dithered too long on Terra trying to get the house lords to start the negotiations …. The media cycle shifted from the great general, to the old man … much of his power base just evaporated.>
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A veto isn't going to do anything, as it would be 5 to 1 against him. It is stated the SL was created to make all nations equal. So one vote nay, 5 votes yay. How do you veto this?
Quite easily – the house lords vote together in one block of 5 – Kerensky says “Vetoed”, and that is the end of it – the bill has been quashed (Dead). They can rave all they want but there is nothing they can do.
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Media wars?
You do realize that Kerensy has had a quite talk with Jerome Blake, the new Minister of Communications of the Star League, if asked to get the message to every corner of the IS as quickly as possible how quick could that be? My bet they could do it within 24 to 48 hours. And as for each Houses response could not Jerome slow down their responses?
That said yes there can be a media war!
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It is more probably that the houses are already deep into such a feat before they voted him down.
As stated above, he must get them to the negotiation table as quickly as possible – the longer it takes the more likely it is his power base will evaporate ……
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You left out the most important issue with the so called diary of how to corral the house lords. Who is to become the first lord?
No I didn’t, please read above …. There CANNOT be a new First Lord, the position must be eliminated, only by allowing an equal power sharing arrangement is there any hope of ensuring the SL endures. If you allow the concept that there must be a “First Lord” into the discussion it will be doomed from the start as this is the one point that will fracture the SL – each House Lord’s ego will never allow another on the throne – it can only be them – this is why the only viable solution is equal power through one vole (this will also require each house lord to establish alliances – and as such less of a chance of wars.)
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2 years after official disbandment of the SL of going to all the house lords was for tea and crumpets. Right?
Pretty much, by then he had lost the ‘Big Mo’ (Momentum) as well as the power base he once enjoyed at the end of the Amaris Civil War … plus they realized he would not use force, he was tired of the idea of war … so, by then they were just humoring him for the sake of their own media PR.
He was just an old man they could use for a photo op to increase their internal ratings with their people, and then they could just send him on his way …..
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Secondary locations... Do you think that Amaris's people didn't find those and destroy or move them? Even multiple back ups would go missing or be destroyed.
Depends on how they are secured ….. what policy and procedures you have in place – there must be one for physical kidnapping of the server in order to hold for ransom / destruction. So depending on what they are will determine if Amaris can destroy them.
And they may end up like the Helm Memory core – hidden away in a bunker somewhere - when an employee takes the core and hides, whilst Amaris’ forces think they have destroyed it (so no one looks for it), until the end of the Amaris Conflict.
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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ghostrider
02/15/20 07:54 PM
66.74.60.165
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For Kerensky to even threaten the house lords with the SLDF would mean violating the very organization that he was trying to keep together. So that is a no go.
To force the house lords onto Terra would be seen as kidnapping, not only in their realms but in the TH. And since all 5 of the houses were pretty much unified in destroying the League if they were not in charge sealed it's fate.
His reputation would be shot the moment people found out about this. It would mean they had a dictator rising. Then you would be screaming Kerensky seized control of the SL and started wiping out the FS and the rest.
I guess you don't understand what that without someone in charge, which Kerensky was stripped of, you don't have the all powerful Veto. As with your argument with Adam Steiner, Kerensky was NOT an heir to the throne. That honor would go to whom ever the council agreed upon. In some thought, the regency died when Cameron died. As protector of the realm he would be forced to obey the directives of the houses vote. He could not be part of it, as he was stuck with just following the rules. His own conscious would make sure he did not try the dictator road.
Thru Blake, he could do the speed his speech and delay the house lords speech. Once proven, Blake would be removed from office, and the League would have had to deal with all the houses at once, as it would show a dictator had risen. Blake would have been breaking the laws put in place to keep the HPG running correctly.
And at this point in time for canon, resources were pretty well stocked. Also, you run the risk of splintering the HPG network, as crews in some areas would revolt against such orders.
The statement of there can't be a new first lord is impossible to achieve. This idea dooms the entire IS to eternal strife, and probably war. First off, it removes the military from having any power to do anything, as Kerensky would be removed from politics.
Then you have the issue of who is to run the 'council'. What do you know. More arguments, and this would continue for every little thing each house lord wanted or hated. Nothing would get done but lining the pockets of those that the house lords think can help them get their way.
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Requiem
02/15/20 10:50 PM
1.158.235.15
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For Kerensky to even threaten the house lords with the SLDF would mean violating the very organization that he was trying to keep together. So that is a no go.
Once he declares himself once-more the IS’s Regent and Protector of the Protector of the Realm if any of House Lord attempt to succeed he is well within his rights to declare war on that House.
This is why he needs to declare this asap after the end of the Amaris Coup.
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To force the house lords onto Terra would be seen as kidnapping, not only in their realms but in the TH.
Sorry I wasn’t more specific – Once Kerensky declares himself Regent and Lord Protector … The House Lords would travel to Terra, voluntarily, asap as they would realize that politically Kerensky has just out flanked them with that declaration and unless they nip it in the bud asap they will find their political power evaporating in the wind as it were ….
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And since all 5 of the houses were pretty much unified in destroying the League if they were not in charge sealed it's fate.
Politically - play one off the over … divide and conquer …
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His reputation would be shot the moment people found out about this. It would mean they had a dictator rising.
The complete opposite … I got him to add in that he would resign once the situation normalized … if handled correctly it could be seen as the experienced General and former Regent and Lord Protector returning to his previous post to stabilize the situation …
Then you would have those who back the House lords screaming that he is undertaking a coup … but when he has already Killed Amaris off this may be difficult for some to believe …
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I guess you don't understand what that without someone in charge, which Kerensky was stripped of, you don't have the all powerful Veto.
Again …. If he gets ahead of the House Lords and declares himself Regent once more he can claim the right to veto …. Especially if he explains this to the people of the IS prior to the House Lords arrival on Terra ….
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As with your argument with Adam Steiner, Kerensky was NOT an heir to the throne.
Adam Steiner … the illegal archon …. Was appointed by TPTB whilst not using the Lyran Rules of succession as laid down by the original rules of the game …. This is a Coup!
Kerensky, is NOT declaring himself First Lord, only Regent and Lord Protector (a Post he once held due to extraordinary circumstances) – now that he finds himself once more in extraordinary circumstances he is just resuming his old position – an excuse the average layman would readily believe …. And with that he has all the authority he needs …
Remember, he has stated that he will resign from the post once the situation stabilizes – so how can he be on the dictator road?
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Thru Blake, he could do the speed his speech and delay the house lords speech. Once proven, Blake would be removed from office
First, Prove it.
Second, Veto it
Third, how would the crews know your implementing it, if it is the Terran HPG that is the only one that is slowing the messages to start off with?, and the other crews are just sending their messages as per normal.
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you have the issue of who is to run the 'council'.
The house lords are too late … once he declared himself regent he has already claimed the position of ‘chair’.
Arguments
As stated above – point out the benefits (technology and economic advantages) plus the power each house will gain as being part of a council – point out the negatives (he will intervene if necessary) – also war is very risky, given they all have similar forces could any one of them take the Throne by force? Realistically speaking no one house has the forces necessary to win the Throne at this stage.
So what every house needs is time to build up their forces – thus it is better to go with the status quo until they do have the forces – however, by then they will become so used to their new power they would rather retain what they have than risk a roll of the die.
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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ghostrider
02/15/20 11:49 PM
66.74.60.165
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He was never the IS regent. Only SL. So that would not work at all. To even suggest it would say he was going to go dictator.
And each house signed up on their own accord. To withdraw from it should not be that difficult. If it was, then they would not have their realms, as it would all become TH.
For Kerensky to declare himself regent and lord protector would set off the houses against him. The council stripped him. For him to just say and do that would declare war on them all. Equal votes, even though Kerensky was only equal be power given to him, then removed. He had the military, but not the political side covered.
Divide and conquer. That might have worked if Kerensky would have been offering the first lord position to them, which sounds like that wouldn't have happened. So egos mean if I'm not first lord, then no one is. This shows thru as none of the house lords moved to keep the SL together.
First lord or nothing is the problem with any sort of solution. None of the house lords were going to accept anything less.
Do politicians promise things, only to renege on them? Or sucker in enemies, then take them out? At this point, not a single house lord was trusting him at all. If they had, then they would have met on Terra.
One fell swoop and Kerensky had all the realms or a massive war with all of them. The lure of power was too much for the lords to trust.
Send a message by HPG, and by jumpship. The jumpship has the message to the destination long before the HPG does. Hmmm. Proof.
Veto is not something they could do as they didn't have the power to do so. Blake and Kerensky were NOT lords. Both could be removed from their position by the lords. Only thing that might stop that is the distrust between the house lords. With Cameron dead, the TH was without any representation, as Kerensky did not have the power to represent them after Cameron was killed. His duties in that aspect ended at that point.
Benefits of tech. Funny. As the house lords now control the SL, ordering the release of said tech to them would become a law that could not be stopped. The only thing that might slow it down is the arguments on who gets what first. Even splitting up the SLDF would come about.
Again. For Kerensky to try anything would give the house lords even more power, as it would be seen as a coup. He was removed from any sort of power to vote, or take actions that was against the lords majority vote.
Might need to reread things with forces. The CC was the weakest at all times. The FS was supposed to be the strongest, and yet the DC's attacks ripped deep into them. If not for TPTB saving it with the Kentares massacre, the FS would be history. The LC didn't have the ability to do much against the DC, so Kurita would have won the succession wars.
And this brings up another point. The FS would be reeling with so much of their factories in DC hands, even with fighting them back to the border, the DC's manufacturing base would be hardly touched. The DC should have out produced the FS dramatically. How come this was not used to keep the FS counter assault confined until the shock of the Kentares massacre faded?
They should have been almost on par with the LC with FS facilities in their possession.
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Requiem
02/16/20 01:48 AM
1.158.235.15
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Within the time of the SL the SL and the IS are the same.
The semantics remain – once you declare you are once more Regent and Defender of the Realm and that you will resign once your duty is done … he cannot be called a dictator (except by his political enemies).
Politics of the situation – they will turn up and on their own accord.
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For Kerensky to declare himself regent and lord protector would set off the houses against him. The council stripped him.
Wrong time line …
Canon has him winning the war then calling for a meeting the house lords ignore, and when they do turn up they strip him of his command.
Mine, has him winning the war then at the funeral / grave side of the last First Lord he declares he is once more Regent and Protector of the Realm … when the House Lords arrive on Terra, they will find they have lost their chance to strip him of his command … now they must deal with a Regent and the CO of the SLDF …
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Divide and conquer.
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First lord or nothing is the problem with any sort of solution. None of the house lords were going to accept anything less
.
It is impossible to offer the first lord position when there can only be a council of equals.
However, each house has been after the SLDF military as well as Amaris’ technology (captured on Terra) as well as a free trade zone within the TH.
Plus they will need time – time to increase the size of their forces. As it stands no one has a superior force that could overwhelm the other four – A war at this stage is M.A.D. so why start it?
By offering one or more of the Houses access to classified information the others will not get – to get them to sigh on to the new SL don’t you think their greed and avarice will win out in the end?
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Blake and Kerensky were NOT lords. Both could be removed from their position by the lords.
With Kerensky firmly entrenched within the position of Regent as well as the SLDF fleet above Terra – they are going no-where.
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For Kerensky to try anything would give the house lords even more power, as it would be seen as a coup.
No I disagree, the majority of the IS people hero worshiped Kerensky above that of their own House Lord.
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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ghostrider
02/16/20 02:24 AM
66.74.60.165
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So the entire IS was SL? Then why even bother with a council as the first lord could just tell them what is going to happen that they obey like the good little lap dogs that would make them?
Wrong time line? How is that possible?
You are asking if Kerensky just incompetent or a villain and tyrant? How did this morph into another alt?
This view is based on faulty information. And then ignoring real facts.
Might need to rethink how you present information as every single thread you get involved in seems to be ripping on the canon game in order to say only your view is the only viable way it can be.
It isn't.
Bringing in all the bs about history and psychology, and then changing it when it doesn't support those views. In history, there is no multiple worlds light years apart. The standard tactics have to be changed, as there is more then just a few thousand miles to go. Instantaneous teleportation only works with the jump ships, not unit already on the ground. Kilometers is about .6 of a mile. So the when a mech moves 120 kph, it is like 90 mph. You can NOT get from L.A. to L.V. in a single hour, much less minutes.
Loading up on aircraft, if you have any available, means time to load, flight time, then unloading. That is not going to be 5 minutes. Suggesting you have all your units in one group, but they cover entire worlds in a blink on an eye doesn't work. Even orbital drops takes time to get landed.
HPG calls don't always go to the destination right off the bat. Some are sent to other stations, only to be relayed to the correct one. Much like internet signals can go around the world from this website to what ever you are connecting to the internet with.
But it seems learning from the past isn't happening here.
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Requiem
02/16/20 05:08 PM
1.158.235.15
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So the entire IS was SL?
The entire IS was controlled by the SL. The Star Leagues Ruler was the First Lord, however the majority of the rules was proselytized via the Council, of which the First Lord was chair and each Great House’s leader was a member, and had a one vote / majority rule system.
Why bother with a council – representation.
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Wrong time line? How is that possible?
A question was asked how Kerensky could have saved the SL following the end of the Amaris Civil War and I answered it.
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HPG calls don't always go to the destination right off the bat. Some are sent to other stations, only to be relayed to the correct one. Much like internet signals can go around the world from this website to what-ever you are connecting to the internet with. But it seems learning from the past isn't happening here.
Consider Blake, at the time of the Star League he is supposed to be the pre-eminent engineer who understands the entire HPG system than any other person alive.
Supposition – wouldn’t that include how a message is distributed from a primary hub route (Terra to Capitol Worlds) to a secondary hub route (Terra to regional “Duke’s” Worlds) and even tertiary hub route (filling in the Gaps) based upon a worlds importance as well as its geographical location within the IS and the Periphery – as well as the time taken to get from one station to the next.
That is they have a computer model that can tell you exactly how long a message should take to get from Terra to any other world within the IS and the Periphery due to the predetermined route it would take.
As such wouldn’t that mean that Blake knows that if he manipulates the initial sent time he can manipulate the destinations received time?
A point the future ComStar Knows all too well, and uses all the time, to manipulate when the IS Houses / House Lords receive a message. (Slowing down / increasing the reaction time of each great house’s military to react to any given circumstance due to what ComStar wants)
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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ghostrider
02/16/20 09:33 PM
66.74.60.165
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Ok. There is part of why the concept of keeping the SL alive is on false information. The SL did NOT control the entire IS. Not even close. If they had, then there would be no successor states. Just the SL, and all would have been required to get involved in the Amaris war. Doesn't matter which side, just be involved.
Where is it asked how Kerensky could have saved the SL?
At that time, not in the alt but canon, the house lords decided that if they weren't in control, then they would remove anyone in their way. Taking the house lords hostage would not have worked. Declaring himself head of the SL would not have worked. Not without starting a fight against all the houses. All of them fighting the SL would have killed the SLDF. He did what he could, but in the end, the 5 other voters of the SL decided to end the SL. 5 to 1 vote.
Offering SL tech was a suckers bet. It is very probable the SL had been stringing along the houses long before this time.
And with changing the speeds of messages making it to one place or another, do you honestly think the houses weren't watching for that?
Or figure out that a priority message sent from one place didn't make it until after a private message from a family member made it there? The use of spies and counter spies did not rise in the succession wars, but had continued from the exodus of earth. The houses would definitely be watching all of the others, including the SL for such things. A delayed message would probably be seen as a falsified one. It isn't like the houses didn't know how long it would take to get a message from Luthien or Marik to Terra. And back again. During 3025, it could be done as they knew equipment failure was very possible.
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Requiem
02/17/20 12:21 AM
1.158.235.15
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Quote:
There is part of why the concept of keeping the SL alive is on false information.
Not false information, just delayed information to give one set of information precedence over another…..
Quote:
The SL did NOT control the entire IS. Not even close. If they had, then there would be no successor states.
The SL does not control the Houses …. They all agreed to join and to accept the same laws, in an effort to promote harmony and unity.
As for removing Kerensky from CO of the SLDF – with his removal the SLDF would not be as efficient in combat when combat was entered into.
Technology
This has been the first real time they have been offered free access to the entire technological database of the TH as well as any goodies Amaris left behind – would they give up the chance to get it?
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And with changing the speeds of messages making it to one place or another, do you honestly think the houses weren't watching for that?
Very difficult to prove. So unless the two went out at the same time and date and destination it would be next to impossible.
And if the message is going to three or four recipients who are all on different worlds then what?
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
Edited by Requiem (02/17/20 04:14 PM)
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ghostrider
02/17/20 02:03 PM
66.74.60.165
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Delayed information to give one set of information precedence over another? How is the fact the SL is not in control over the entire IS delaying information in the assertation that this fact is just not true? Is this more fuzzy logic coming into play. The SL is not the ultimate ruler of the IS. It was formed by 6 entirely different realms to try and solve things diplomatically. 6., not 1.
Removing Kerensky was done to remove him from the political arena. As you said before. There are OTHER officers in the SLDF that could take over for him. Some may have been better then Kerensky. And with that, what war was next at the time they removed him? It was only after they all realized there was no way any of them would become first lord, that the threat of war became real again. And by that time, they probably had other officers being sympathetic to their cause.
Where does it say this was the first time? It was probably offered to get the houses to sign on in the first place. And that tech may have been new at that time period, but didn't continue on as tech increased.
And here is a counter to that. The house that gets their leader into first lord position would have that access, and leave the other houses out in the cold. Sounds like a better deal then going back to the same old political arguments and all gaining the tech, if it is actually done.
Not much for intelligence operations, are you? It would be standard to have such information sent out, to make sure messages are getting where they need to be and not modified. Grandma Moses may well be an intel dummy account set up just to keep track of this. A bundle of messages has one go to Grandma Moses just to make sure that if there is any 'difficulties' it wasn't just one particular message. This should be standard procedure. The whole thing of using Climb Mt Fuji as the go ahead for hitting Hawaii comes to mind. This would be using other messages in a bundle.
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Requiem
02/17/20 04:09 PM
1.158.235.15
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Quote:
fuzzy logic coming into play
Question: ComStar
Mandate(s): To propagate War amongst the Ruling Houses so that they virtually obliterate each other –so that they can ride out like the knights of old to rebuild the SL in their “Blake-an” image.
To ensure the development of technology is curtailed in certain fields.
How: To the latter – they have roving squads to ensure the timely demise of the scientist in question and an accident at her/his lab that will destroy all notes etc (thus preserving the sanctity of the knowledge for ComStar alone).
To the former – The Great Houses animosity towards each other is legendry and needs no real push to get the fighting started – however how do you get the intensity of the fighting to increase so that with each battle they damage themselves more and more – that bringing the time of “Blake” closer and closer. (Remember they (ComStar) are now a quasi-religious order and some are Zealots - proselytize the faith.)
Achievement: so how do you increase the damage – slow down the time reinforcements arrive by slowing down the message?
Can you think of another way that ComStar is meddling in the affairs of the Great Houses – covertly to achieve “Blakes” divine will and vision for the IS that is ComStar?
And where and when do you think they learnt this little trick?
It may not be written about in any book but to assume they don’t have tricks up their robes when it comes to meddling in the affairs of the Houses is a little naïve.
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The SL is not the ultimate ruler of the IS. It was formed by 6 entirely different realms to try and solve things diplomatically. 6., not 1.
Animal Farm – All are made equal, and yet some are more equal than others.
SL – The Chair and First Lord (Cameron), The Members of the Council (The Lords of the Great Houses) – all working together for peace, prosperity and unity of humanity throughout the IS.
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Removing Kerensky
Kerensky wins against Amaris – resumes the position of Defender of the Realm.
The House Lords decide to do nothing for a time.
Finally they arrive on Terra – no one will give an inch when it comes to who the next First Lord will be – however they do agree Kerensky has to go so they remove him from the position as CO of the SLDF – and yet there is no one they can agree on to replace him – so the position technically remains vacant – and yet the SLDF ignore this decision by the House Lords – as far as the SLDF is concerned Kerensky is still their CO.
Thus each House begins to look for cracks in the SLDF / Former Amaris forces that still exist – they actively court them to join their House units – of which many do.
Outraged Kerensky calls together what is left and outlines his plan to Desert the IS – and they all follow him.
With the last impediment to the title gone each House begins a war to claim the throne – even though none of them have the available forces to do so – the war grinds on and becomes a war of attrition in which each House is more becoming more severely damaged (by their own actions) than winning the war.
So what was the point of removing him when there wasn’t anyone to replace him with, and the SLDF just ignored the directive to begin with?
As CO he still retained his political power – removing him from his position would just increase his political power as many more people were now sympathetic to him (as they viewed the actions of each House Lord as callous, cruel and self serving.)
The House Lords at this time should have come to one inevitable conclusion as they did in the time of Rome – all power lies in legions – Only by ruling the SLDF can one become First Lord. By allowing him to sit on Terra and do nothing after the fall of Amaris just damaged all their chances of getting him on their side. More covert and overt means are required to gain mastery over the SLDF.
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First Time – Free access to technology
Refer https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Mother_Doctrine
Quote:
And here is a counter to that. The house that gets their leader into first lord position would have that access, and leave the other houses out in the cold.
And yet … with Kerensky and the SLDF gone all the houses engaged in a mad scramble for anything they could get – and in all probability the destroyed more than they actually were able to recover.
Whereas under my proposal they would have access to everything.
So what is more enticing – the prospect of war and a low chance of receiving any technological development – or signing on to the new system and having access TO ALL of the information – thus they could rebuild their army over time to new heights of technology and attack in the future when they are ready to do so – a pause to become a more lethal army and navy.
(and what would happen if Kerensky made overtures to each house lord for secret information only their House would receive - all they need to do is sign onto the new council that is.)
Sounds like a better deal than a mad scramble for whatever you can take of the former TH whilst fighting off all the other Houses forces at the same time.
Question: Does Grandma Moses’ Account have the same level of Priority as the CIC for the AFFS Account? So how can you compare the speed of these two accounts?
PS – Operation Z – the Japanese attack on Pearl – the code phrase was Climb Mount Nitaka!
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
Edited by Requiem (02/17/20 04:16 PM)
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ghostrider
02/17/20 05:35 PM
66.74.60.165
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When did Comstar adopt the mandate of playing the IS house against each other, and destroying information?
Not right at the end of the SL. The decline of tech was from the 1st succession war and beyond.
Possible ways Comstar could slow down or hurt the realms.
Arranging accidents for important people, which doesn't always mean leaders.
Replacing books/comp files with inaccurate to completely false information, starting with things that aren't watched so much, and increasing on up to altering prototype plans so they malfunction. It would be as simple as reversing a pair of wires.
Delaying communications could come about with simple date changes on the messages. Adding 'situation has been resolved'. Even bouncing it around for a few hours to days, may well cause a pirate point that would be needed to 'save' something would close in that time. Even setting up some sort of trap at a jump point that the message has said to use.
Yes. It is much harder to do with video, over texts, but can be done.
Introducing virus's and worms into systems thru said video and texts. No anti virus will catch everything.
Even sending a completely made up report could be done. Something as simple as saying the food supply it ok when they are dangerously low.
All of this could be made to set up another realm.
Learn politics. Removing Kerensky removes the TH from any representation for a while. It also removes Kerensky from affecting their plans, as he is no longer in power to do so. He is something they realize they can not coerc or corrupt to support their plans so getting him out of any position to resist is why they would remove him. But they did it only for protector of the realm and the Cameron family. He was still the top general of the SLDF. For him to even threaten the others, it makes it look like a military coup.
The mother doctrine still doesn't say they weren't promised access. Political power. Promise what they want. Give them what you decide.
Your proposal starts off accusing the canon general of being a coward and deserter. Nothing in it suggests it is nothing more then complaining about the game yet again. I believe a class in writing, as almost all starting posts need to avoid saying this is wrong and only my idea is right.
Simply stating the changes and avoiding the canon is wrong theme.
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Requiem
02/17/20 06:25 PM
1.158.235.15
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Quote:
When did Comstar adopt the mandate of playing the IS house against each other, and destroying information? Not right at the end of the SL. The decline of tech was from the 1st succession war and beyond.
Whom do you think ComStar learnt most of their tricks from? …..Hmmmmm, Blake?
Quote:
Possible ways Comstar could slow down or hurt the realms.
Accidents – same kill teams;
Replacing information – from every library on every world and within every corporation … not realistic … how do you even know what is occurring in every lab / engineering dept throughout the entire IS?;
Delaying communications could come about …. Glad you agree.
Sending false reports – can you get around the internal security procedures each Military would have in place to verify the accuracy of the report?
No anti virus will catch everything …. Unknown variable as was never discussed but given the level of paranoia in today’s society it is a good bet they would be some level in the far future.
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Removing Kerensky removes the TH from any representation for a while.
Technically, with the execution of Richard II Cameron the TH lost its representation. That is unless Kerensky (CO of the SLDF) takes double duty and appoints himself as the TH representative or he appoints someone else to represent TH interests that is.
So no it really doesn’t do anything …..
As for the Coup angle – again no it doesn’t, if he declares himself Regent once more he has all the legal authority he needs to bring to heel any house lord – also as CO of the SLDF his duties include protecting the realm against any threat foreign or domestic …. So, if a House Lord has threatened the SL he is also well within the law to attack …
So either way you have it he is well within his rights to attack ….
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The mother doctrine still doesn't say they weren't promised access.
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Mother_Doctrine
Opening Paragraph …
“The Mother Doctrine was a Terran Hegemony government policy restricting the dissemination of certain advanced technologies outside its borders to retain the Hegemony's technological advantage.”
We are discussing technology ….” restricting the dissemination of certain advanced technologies” …. So when offered to each House Lord as an inducement to sigh on to the new SL should be seen as a powerful.
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Your proposal starts off accusing the canon general of being a coward and deserter.
Under the letter of the law, Under the Code of Military Justice as well as his social position – YES HE IS.
Charge:
Cowardice – Under Military Justice – includes a variety of cowardice clauses as well as desertion in the face of the enemy and surrendering to the enemy against orders; and
Desertion – Under Military Justice – the action of illegally leaving the armed forces.
In taking the military from its assignment to guard the SL he willfully deserted his post and can be called a deserter – in in-sighting others to do so a second charge can be brought to his court martial. In deserting his post in the face of the enemy (The House Lords) he can be described as a coward, and he should have be given a white feather!
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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ghostrider
02/17/20 11:19 PM
66.74.60.165
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Hmm. Was Blake one of those instructors to Cameron? One of those that started to remove the power from Kerensky, and was never caught?
How often to you check the validity of books when they come in? Or have updated books that change some of the history as is happening today? Take the game for instance. Unless you have one of the first printing of books, you wouldn't know what was changed. Is it really that difficult to see that can be done on a larger scale? I am sure the houses have their own version of history, and maybe even each district/march lord as well. The whole issue with pilots being welded into their cockpits for instance.
So saying Kerensky could attack is legal when he doesn't even have any of the lords backing him and it wouldn't be a coup? That would definitely be a renegade officer going to try and build an empire for himself. The SL was disbanded, which actually meant that all military associated with it was as well. The house lords were too busy starting their own fights to even try to push that angle. Also, Kerensky said he was leaving. To do anything at this point would have turned the SLDF against them. Who knows. Maybe the lords thought Kerensky would be back in the near future, once their little wars burned out.
Don't care what the link says. Promises like that are made, with no intention to keep them. You got a lot of politicians today saying they will lower the taxes for the middle class and poor, yet only the rich seem to benefit from them all. They promise better schools and police forces and what ever. Yet the only ones the benefit from this is the rich. The poor tend to have their benefits reduced to cut costs. So yes. I do believe they were promised more access to the tech in order to join the SL in the first place.
Still not reading the second sentence in paragraphs? You know. The ones that says: Nothing in it suggests it is nothing more then complaining about the game yet again.
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Requiem
02/18/20 02:23 AM
1.158.235.15
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Post deleted by Requiem
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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ghostrider
02/18/20 03:20 AM
66.74.60.165
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There is nothing stating particular ones, as it was to show that there is a history of people saying they will do something and know they never will. It is called lying. Telling people what they want to hear in order to get them to behave like you want them to. Manipulation is a better term.
If it is a problem I will get a notice, and possible ban for it. I won't fight it.
As there is far more things for real world things like a lot of the links put up, this may be bad, but not near as much as others.
You want realism, well that is a big one in the game. Katherine did it well, and you praise her for it.
Now just who would press charges against the general? The organization that he worked for is dead. Those he answered to are gone. The SLDF obeyed the SL. That is no longer a valid entity. So how can you be charged of desertion from an entity that no longer exists? Basic facts here. Do you get charged with not showing up for work when the company you work for is out of business? If you do, I don't want to work for that company, ever.
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Rotwang
06/22/20 06:54 AM
94.226.248.136
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The first thought that springs to mind is "Why did the House leaders pick Kerensky ?"
At least one of them must have gotten a full psychological profile of a dozen suitable candidates, and I suspect others had at least some kind of plan to appoint somebody they could manipulate or control. I think that it might have taken some high end diplomacy to agree on Kerensky being a candidate they could all "stand behind"
First of all the Star League was a militaristic autocracy. The Star League is set up as a perfect example of the Selectorate Theory of Bueno de Mesquita. Where the First Lord is in control of the finances and rewards the people that enable his/her reign. A feudal system makes sense that instead of having a huge bureaucracy to control Star League you have a decentralized distribution of power and the only thing the First Lord has to be concerned with is making sure everyone pays their due in time. It's a very efficient system for authoritarian systems. Of course it breeds corruption since there is no just reward for labour done, but rather a "grab whatever you can" system. This means anyone with a stamp and a desk now has power to ignore people who need that stamp until they leave an unmarked envelope on their desk, while the military, probably underpaid except for the direct elite guard of the leader, separate from the rest of the "regular" army can set up control posts, again painstakingly searching cars or just keep them to the side until again money is used to grease palms and you may resume your daily business.
I suspect that Star League was probably rotten from the inside and the various political issues were the termites in the log cabin. If it had ever had ambitions to promote the well-being of its population it was more by accident than by design. The fact that the Periphery reacted so strongly against Star League intervention was a telling sign. Even the Houses resented the Camerons at every level and tried everything to undermine their rule, while trying to benefit as much as possible on the other end.
As for Kerensky I suspect that he was a superb military commander, dedicated to doing his duty, but utterly out of his depth when it came to politics, social issues and family matters. He probably tried to treat young Cameron more as a raw recruit than the heir to a throne and the Lords probably figured he would not be the best man for the job and hoped to reap that rewards later, if Amaris hadn't hoodwinked everyone else. If the Lords were trying to undermine the Star League then Amaris played the long game and set up the trap that would swallow the SLDF whole, forcing it to fight a massive sprawled out war, taking its military machine's logistics to the brink of collapse by drawing them deeper into enemy territory.
Kerensky, diligently did what he thought was expected of him. And at this point, knowing that Star League may not have been the Shining City upon the Hill everyone always seems to dream about. It was an authoritarian regime and such regimes tend to lack self-correcting mechanisms to stop corruption, authoritarianism and abuse of power. If we look at what the Star League spawned, organizations like Comstar, Word of Blake and the Clans it's clear the system was broken long before Blake and Nicholas Kerensky found their moment of glory.
Just like that bit of fiction in the Star League sourcebook (p81) that describes Kerensky as an impossibly perfect specimen of humanity Star Leauge, the SLDF and Kerensky were all hidden behind a layer of propaganda and biased historians who bought the myth of the benevolent Star League hook and sinker and try to shove every problem into the shoes of the Successor States.
Kerensky was most likely a capable commander and he probably did what he thought was right. But one can wonder about his decisions, the Exodus is one of those things that makes for a great background idea, but when you start to look for motivations. Kerensky could have simply surveyed what was worth saving from the Hegemony, dig in his troops and dare the Successor States to come and take it, while he would simply have looked at the line of succession and rallied behind whatever speaker, or minister was due to take over in case **** happens. But this is the Battletech universe were certain basic things simply do not exist.
Kerensky ? He seems like a capable commander to me and little else when it comes to politics, which leads him to make horrendous decisions and Nicholas was just a crazy manipulative psychopath who brainwashed what was left of the SLDF into some crazy North Korean style family cult with an army.
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Requiem
06/22/20 08:51 AM
1.158.192.25
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Quote:
Kerensky ? He seems like a capable commander to me and little else when it comes to politics, which leads him to make horrendous decisions and Nicholas was just a crazy manipulative psychopath who brainwashed what was left of the SLDF into some crazy North Korean style family cult with an army.
A Martial General …. And little else
With no understanding of politics or sociology or even how to rely upon others to assist in areas he had no understanding whatsoever …. His archetype is that of the perfectionist who cannot show any weakness …
He fought and won a war against a tyrant …. And yet he never had the humanity to understand how to be a father ….. there is something every normal human has, yet he his lacking ….. empathy, human emotions …. Did that which made him special, his intelligence, make him incapable of understanding people?
And yet he also lacked the flexibility to ask himself one question during the entirety of the war – what next if there is no one to sit on the throne?
As a military commander you must prepare yourself for every eventuality …. And yet it is clear he never thought this scenario through so when confronted with this eventuality he had no idea what to do next …
The hopes and dreams of the entire inner sphere were placed on his shoulders and slowly he came to the realization that he was incapable of making this dreams come true …. For the first time in his life he was incapable of achieving a goal ….
So rather than remaining and being discovered as failure … believing he was only one step away from demise- so he ran ….
And in so doing allowed his damaged sons to take his mantle …..
The above quote is a completely accurate assessment of the situation and congrats Rotwang you should be very proud of this statement!
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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Dermenore
06/22/20 02:11 PM
92.169.144.247
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Sorry, I didn't read the previous post. I don't like it when people do the same in my post but I hope you understand there is a lot to read. And I just went to say my opinion in the first question.
I would say incompetent. To be honest, I am surprised that Kerensky receives so much prayer in the lore (or it's just me who doesn't understand).
As a general, all it's accomplish it's a costly war against periphery rebel, then a costly war again the Amari Empire. Really, each time I read an article in this wiki about these wars, they said a lot of SLDF soldiers dies. Amari and the rebels were maybe ferocious and without pity foe. But the SLDF is described as the best and most powerful military in the Inner Sphere, even after the wars. I think with a so powerful army, a general could win without a so great cost.
And about the virtue of Kerensky... Even here I don't see a lot of arguments. Sure, it's very noble to don't want to take the power for himself at the end of the civil war. But when the Star League fall, he knew there will be a big war, that could do huge damage. He could maybe stop it, the SLDF was still the most powerful army and loyal to him. Or at least try to protect the Terran Hegemony, leaderless, which will be devastated by the Successions Wars. But no, he fled. I just can't stop me from thinking that is cowardice.
Some people could tell me that you can stop violence with more violence. And I think it's a good argument. Sometimes in history, more violence makes just thing worst. Sometimes no. It's hard to tell.
But the Exodus was a disaster. And like the original post said, Kerensky didn't prevent Stephan Amari to influence Richard Cameron. Yes, he was a military, not a tutor or a babysitter. It's still a fail. A comprehensive fail but a fail nevertheless.
After, a tyrant is maybe too strong. I don't think it's tyranny to punish mutineer or rebels, in the context of the Exodus and the Pentagon World (or mutineer and rebels were, in my opinion, stupid or selfish). I still think Kerensky took a lot of bad decisions.
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ghostrider
06/23/20 12:52 PM
66.74.60.165
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As said before, and suggested with the newer posts. Kerensky was a career soldier, not a nurse maid, politician or other such things. His training was not set for such things.
The idea that he was a coward ignores the facts of real life. He was a general of the 'greatest' forces in the galaxy, yet that very fact was not enough to stop the wars. He was fighting the periphery, where they used all sorts of tactics that were underhanded by a lot of people's standards.
Then he had the Amaris incident happen, and turned to punish those who started the fall of the SL. This was far worse in fighting then the periphery was. Or at least I didn't hear the SLDF using nukes to take down the periphery.
So the destruction and death was greater in civil war.
Now at the end where they liberated Terra, the house lords started the bickering that would lead to yet another war, as it was probably the same rhetoric that was used to start the periphery invasion.
A good general does not resort to nukes as a first tactic. And the idea of using them may well have turned his stomach. With the lords trying to become the new first lord, the fact that he may well need to use them again in a new war, may well have got him motivated to do the political aspect of it, which he was not trained for, to deal with the house lords.
So after he failed for two years trying to put things back together again, he finally gave up on even trying. There was no indication that anything but yet another war was coming, and he decided he had enough.
He may well have thought of returning when the others had their fill of war, only to see the nukes being dropped like candy, and the war no where near done before he died. The fact they had a civil war in the SLDF says a lot about the hatreds of the IS.
And for those that constantly say he should have died defending the Hegemony worlds need to ask themselves one question. Would you really have stayed to defend a dead entity, that there was no real hope of stopping a war?
PTSD is not some fake thing that people claim to have. Soldiers in combat tend to have issues, even if it doesn't get this bad.
One thing missed in Dermenore's post about it being a fail, doesn't really cover the fact that there were people in the government that would have been dealing with taking care of Richard. Kerensky was dealing with the war, so would not have the time, and probably not have the training to even think about what was going on there.
It was a fail, but blaming someone that was stuck with the regent's job, and never trained for it, sounds a lot like saying it's Switerland's fault for the world wars.
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Requiem
06/23/20 07:26 PM
1.158.192.25
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Quote:
The idea that he was a coward ignores the facts of real life. He was a general of the 'greatest' forces in the galaxy, ….
No skin in the game,….. he cut and ran for the hills rather than hold the line ….. i.e. white feather.
Quote:
A good general does not resort to nukes as a first tactic.
and this is the problem …. not an ounce of political acumen ….. this is why you need a sneaky duplicitous individual in the room with him to get something done ….
If he does not understand the simple fact that the SLDF military numbers = political power on its own
Then there is something seriously wrong with him ….
Plus a person does not become the commanding officer of something as powerful as the SLDF without having some serious political power behind him assisting his nomination for the position ….
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There was no indication that anything but yet another war was coming, and he decided he had enough.
The Gettysburg Address by Abraham Lincoln – “t is rather for us to be here dedicated to the great task remaining before us that from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which they here gave the last full measure of devotion - that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain that this nation, under God, shall ...”
i.e. these dead died in vain … he cut and ran rather than holding the line!
Quote:
Would you really have stayed to defend a dead entity, that there was no real hope of stopping a war?
YES! …. This is why you took the First Lords coin and why you made your pledge of fidelity to the Star League and the First Lord when you signed on to become part of the SLDF.
If Kerensky has PTSD then his medical team should have stepped in and removed him …. They do have the power to do so.
Quote:
….. the fact that there were people in the government that would have been dealing with taking care of Richard.
As Regent it is Kerensky’s responsibility to look after and educate the boy ….
Upon Coronation and onwards it is Richard’s responsibility to run the Empire …. The buck stops here!
A good General ensures the safety of the Crown at all times …. He should have put in place a contingency measure to get the children out if anything untoward occurred …again his failure of for-sight …..
The fact remains Kerensky WAS the Regent. It does not matter if he trained for it or not, it WAS his responsibility and he absolutely failed when it comes to Ricard’s development as an individual and as a presumptive ruler for the Star League.
There is only one person to whom this tragedy can be applied to and that is Kerensky.
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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ghostrider
06/24/20 11:57 AM
66.74.60.165
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Again. Not everyone wants to rule it all. It is far better to be the one behind the public figure, pulling the strings, as you don't get blamed for failures, or have assassins hiding in your closet. Not saying you wouldn't have to worry, but it wouldn't be as bad. And even then, some know that the decisions forced upon you don't all have a good ending.
Kerensky's lack of ambition may well be what got him the top position to begin with. Those in power knew he would not push to rule it all, just the military. Unwitting pawn is the term for it. He had enough skill to keep the position, as he was not removed during the Unification wars.
The question asks 'would YOU really have stayed to defend a dead entity? I seriously doubt the yes answer. Also, glossing over the fact that the League DIED before he left is still a major point. The SL was dead. So your saying his oath to it is incorrect. And for two years, he banged his head against the wall trying to get the house lords to do SOMETHING to get it back together again. Even as he was leaving the first war was starting.
For a history buff, it seems the fact that rulers rarely trained their children themselves seems to have been forgotten. Tutor and maids are those that normally deal with the children, while the ruler, especially warriors in a war, tend to be gone. If not for being first lord, Richard was just another child. The military isn't good at teaching parental guidance.
What isn't addressed in the information is if Kerensky had left those responsibilities to someone else, such as appointing someone. It isn't like people hired turned out to be scammers or just couldn't do the job.
Then again, if Kerensky did start teaching the boy, the military life style may well have caused him to rebel against it. Discipline for the heir to the SL would not be something a child would care for. He was to command and others obey. This is common for those born into such positions. It is their direct parents that tend to remove such ideas from their minds, long enough for the child to realize their little fantasy kills people.
Also get it straight. Had Amaris not pulled his power play, Richard would have lived longer. The SL would not have fallen apart at that time. So saying the only person responsible is Kerensky is glossing over facts again.
This is not saying something else would not have ended the SL. More then likely it was going to die. The only question is how long would it take? Once the 1st war started, I don't think the SLDF would have been spared. Eventually, the soldiers would have started showing support for one house or another, and started a civil war, like they did on their homeworlds in canon. And with that, the 1st war would have been even worse for damage.
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Requiem
06/24/20 10:47 PM
1.158.192.25
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Unwitting pawn is the term for it.
Obtaining an Admiral rank still required a level of intelligence and political connections. How do military officers obtain the higher ranks? Military officers are determined on skill (and are advised on the whole to avoid politicians like the plague) – Though the majority of rank still required personal connections (The Boys Club) – family connections – education (Alma-mater) – friendships based upon mutual ideology.
Becoming Regent still requires a level of intelligence far beyond the norm – it also opens political connections – it also requires of the recipient a ‘duty of care’ to the future monarch and the realm.
Lack of ambition has never gotten anyone to the higher echelons of anything.
As for the SL it dies only when it dies in the heart of everyone who holds to the SL principles. The SL is an intangible concept – as well as a physical concept in the worlds that it holds.
Again …..
Kerensky accepted the First Lord’s coin and he stated his pledge when he enlisted …. These two concepts matter to all who enlist.
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question asks 'would YOU really have stayed to defend a dead entity?
The Star League is not a dead entity at the time of just before Kerensky decides to leave – there is still a vast area of systems that still belong to the former Star League that no house can lay claim to – and as a member of the SLDF it is Kerensky’s duty to protect this area form all aggressors (foreign or domestic)… even if the House Lords did not want to come back to the table it was still his duty to protect the worlds and the people thereon who were still under his protection …. by running away it demonstrates that he had become too old and too incompetent for the job.
If he was incapable then he should have stepped down and found someone who could.
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Richard’s Education
Speculative as there is no definitive information as to his formulative years. As for his parents there are no documents as to when his mother passed on … so again there is an issue with regards to the narrative of the story based upon incomplete information supplied.
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For a history buff, it seems the fact that rulers rarely trained their children themselves seems to have been forgotten.
and who appoints these people? Determining their worth considering the requirements for the future of the Inner Sphere – These people must be of the highest quality …..
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So saying the only person responsible is Kerensky is glossing over facts again.
If Richard was taught the intricacies of court life and how to identify those who wish to use him for his position he never would have formed a friendship with Amaris …..
Kerensky’s fault for not ensuring he could identify a person of disrepute …..
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This is not saying something else would not have ended the SL. More then likely it was going to die. The only question is how long would it take?
Consider how long it took for the fall of the Roman Empire …..
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Once the 1st war started, I don't think the SLDF would have been spared.
Yes the Great Houses may have attacked …. However at this stage the SLDF still has the largest military force and at the same time they have the shortest logistics chain. Strategically they could dig in and thus to extract them would be very costly – thus not something most Houses militaries would consider ….. even during a Nuclear War.
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Eventually, the soldiers would have started showing support for one house or another, and started a civil war
Not so if the SLDF command informs the all their forces that they will stand and hold the line to keep the SL and SLDF operational far into the future
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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