Requiem
03/01/20 04:51 AM
1.158.235.15
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…. they are needed to drive the IS into yet another war.
Options are required so that you do not need them for another war?
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The only way to challenge the entire IS comes to wars between the houses.
A new SLDF against all of the clans can work just as well in my opinion
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…. it may well cause the FS to become the new CC. But it is just as likely that in the future, something will happen to break up the DC, saving the FS.
Unfortunately we will not know any time soon.
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…. Morality ….
If ALL the game players requested an evil party then I was fine with it …. but there is always that group of paladins / with spell casters in the wing if they go too far …. However when you are in a culture that uses undead (Ancient Egypt setting) for building projects, guards etc I enjoyed being a Necromancer! I guess the same could be said with being WoB is the party wanted to go down that track it was fine by me, but you need to keep them on a very short leash when necessary.
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Now here is a thought. Can you jump the facilities with dropships inside the parts?
They would have to be securely attached and within the jump bubble – plus each ship has a maximum weight capacity they can move …. As long as it conforms to this I do not see why not.
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They can't look at the damn things and figure out how to make more?
I cannot understand this either.
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I can understand that warships would not be economical to make if you couldn't fix them in the field.
With any fleet their needs a tender ship that can repair any other ship in the field
Also given how precious Jumpships are supposed to be in the 3025 era the idea that every house doesn’t have a small fleet of tenders to fix them in the field to ensure you keep them working is completely illogical. Plus if your rival house doesn’t have a tender you have the opportunity to swoop in a pinch it if they abandon it.
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Obviously the construction rules are screwed up, as only warships can have drives smaller then needed on jumpships, compared to the size.
Add it to the list …..
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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ghostrider
03/01/20 07:15 PM
66.74.60.165
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The options are very limited, as only another house seems viable to war with the others, except the CC after the 4th war. But the developers made sure that didn't stay like that.
I don't agree with nukes being the main way to motivate everyone. But to have a simple invasion the spreads, does not really set off alarms until it is too late. And as stated before. There is no real entity in the game to threaten the IS as a whole.
A war with the clans would be won thru attrition if the fighting bogged down. Which I would think it wouldn't. Well, if you actually let someone OTHER then famous mercs to use.
A smart way to start would be challenge one clan, possibly the Falcons, if they are there, and just start wiping them out. Not going to be easy, as no sneak attack coming, but with the forces being sent to take on multiple clans at once, should be enough for just the Falcons. Refit, and start with another. I doubt it will be long before the others realize it is an extermination of their ways.
With canon, they should have taken out the Falcons support while in the clan home worlds. This fact alone would have cut the Falcons off from supplies, making their invasion force much easier to deal with. But the developers didn't want that.
I find it interesting that things inside of a drop ship on a jump ship that jumps isn't really required to have everything strapped down. Otherwise, those people on the bridge and elsewhere when it does, should be part of the wall.
With the yardships, I would think the cabinets and such would be secured on the walls, with the mobile tool benches having their own locks as well. Cargo storage would fall under the cabinets.
The hyperspace field/boom must be pretty large, as even with the 'ribs' of it enclosed, you are talking a few hundred meters of equipment radiating out from the jump core. The jump core can not be in the middle of the work area, but off to the side. Most likely spine of the yard.
The issue I was trying to point out with the compact drives, is the smaller the drive, the more ship it seems to be able to move. I will give them some room for the 'lostech' that it was, but now that it is rediscovered, regular jumpships should be able to use them, saving room for more things.
Now there is an issue with the lacking of mobile repair yards the size of the Yardships. There is NO mention in the early game about anything like it. So the retcon is another thing that screws up the game.
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Requiem
03/02/20 05:27 AM
101.185.82.147
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The options are very limited, as only another house seems viable to war with the others, except the CC after the 4th war.
Agree, they are very limited – minor Periphery war(s), DC, FWL, Skye declaring independence, FRR declaring independence and the F-C assist them, Andurien and Canopus / FWL, pirate hunting in the Deep Periphery;
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There is no real entity in the game to threaten the IS as a whole.
ComStar? An early operation scorpion similar to the W0B – and without the WMDs.
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A war with the clans would be won thru attrition if the fighting bogged down. Which I would think it wouldn't.
I have given this a great deal of thought – every Clan garrison will require 3 elemental teams of 25 each for each Minor Garrison – and for worlds in the billions you would need about 25-50,000 minimum. So unless they stick to small populated worlds their garrisons will be easily nurfed.
If there Garrison does not have this minimum amount – my bet is it will not last a month before the entire Clan Garrison is found dead (by one or another form of partisan attack). Thus the garrisons would decimate them.
Second, moving multiple RCTs in front of the Clans to the point a whole Galaxy is required to take a single world – The Clans will need good luck getting out of that without 50 - 75% casualties – so for the next world even more and the next world even more – so that by them their level of available forces will be next to nil.
Third post year of “peace” – all the world in front of them should have been turned into fortresses after one year – this should have bogged them down.
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This fact alone would have cut the Falcons off from supplies, making their invasion force much easier to deal with. But the developers didn't want that.
The fix was on when you look at …. Wolf Vs. Falcon War – and at the end of it the Wolves acquired warriors from the Jaguars – and not one of them was attacked by an IS force. Then when the Wolves and Falcon’s returned home and many warriors thru their fights so that they could fight in the IS.
Completely unbelievable – and rigging the game in favor of the Clans!
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I find it interesting that things inside of a drop ship on a jump ship that jumps isn't really required to have everything strapped down.
Moving everything in the bubble, as is, without any forward momentum?
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regular jumpships should be able to use them, saving room for more things.
Agree.
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Now there is an issue with the lacking of mobile repair yards the size of the Yardships. There is NO mention in the early game about anything like it. So the retcon is another thing that screws up the game.
And yet there is a need for them – it just seems as though they believed that Jumpships could never break down – thus they didn’t need to be part of the Mobile Jumpship Repair Group – your Jumpship breaks down you call your local repair ship via HPG and they send out a ship to fix you or give you a toe to the local yard – it just takes 8 to 12 weeks to arrive but that’s not a biggie …..
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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ghostrider
03/02/20 12:33 PM
66.74.60.165
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Not sure why you think it is a fix. It isn't like the developers sat around and rolled dice to see how many units the clans got at what time. It is part of a story line to drive the game supposedly forward. I say supposedly, as reality of a few things would have/have not happened. The tech issue being one. The idea of stopping removing the other clans from the IS is another. The lack of infantry and vehicles doing anything to thwart the advance of the clans, with the exception of a few stories in adventure packs and such. Maybe they thought the speed at which some of the ones that could take them down were too slow, while those fast enough to close and do some damage, didn't have enough firepower to do much. But this can't be the case for every world.
The idea of weakening the clans in the IS, comes from operation Serpent. After they took out the Jaguars, they should have started taking out the home resources of the other clan(s). Depending on how you look at it before the refusal war, The Falcons would be ones to take out, while the Bears and Wolves might not be. Granted, this sounds odd, as they were all part of the same general organization, but they were not as bad as most of the others.
I do wonder if they couldn't make extendable docking collars for jumpships. Even if it is nothing more then one that is put together in system. I mean you do have space around the jumpship, like the Scout. Weight is used to prevent this, which may well be why they don't want the compact cores used. But some of the storage on the jump ships is more then enough to install more. And if not that, then cargo containers that do little more then get dropped or attached in systems, that have 2 docking collars on them. One to attach to the jump ship, and one to have another dropship, even limited, attach to the side facing away from the jump ship. Some thrusters to move it, but it doesn't have to be fast or land.
That is what was odd about 2750. The (re)introduction of the Octopus tug. Nothing before hand, was set up to bring a dropship to a repair facility, if the system had one. It does seem that if a jump ships engines, jump and thrusters had issues, they were stuck or couldn't stop moving. The only thing I can remember seeing about this is when the LC hit the DC invasion fleet during the 4th war. Where they said they had ships trying to stabilize some of the jumpships that were damaged in the commando attack. With this, there should be more then a few broken jumpships in at least uninhabited systems that would make a good place to bypass some worlds.
Also makes me think a good campaign might be finding one not on, but near the exodus road. They did send out scouts to other systems. Surely they had to have something break and with that, repairs would take far longer then they had. So leaving a yardship to fix it, then catch up might be tried. Either it could have had an issue and neither jump, or the more logical one. Where did the fleet go after continued on?
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Requiem
03/02/20 05:01 PM
101.185.82.147
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It is part of a story line to drive the game supposedly forward.
In writing a story you develop many underling premises that give form to your creation - going angst these set rules just so you can ensure your sides victory at the expense of these rules just proves how mediocre the writing is.
When rules are set, when the societies culture is set then you must follow these rules you have established for yourself – less the writing is again mediocre at best.
If there is a particular outcome you want for your culture then you must stick to the rules you have made and find a way within the rules to create the outcome required.
Cheating your own rules so that you can strengthen one side over the other is again mediocre writing – not least of all it demonstrates that the writer is taking liberties that should never have been allowed ….
Case in point ….
The idea that the Clans never received any losses in the invasion of the inner sphere - and yet the IS forces 99% of the time receive massive damage? And yet all of the battles are Mech Vs Mech – where are the vehicles where are the conventional aircraft and bombers and mass infantry (why not arm them all with SRMs with Inferno + Large Infantry support weapons?;
The Lack of massive partisan uprisings upon Clan Held IS worlds;
The idea that the IS cannot come up with an idea of how to kill of an Elemental (Toad) – and yet they have spikes falling from the roof impaling them so that a little girl and her grandfather can use a sledge hammer and spike to drive it through an elementals helmet ….What the?;
The idea that during the year of peace the IS would do nothing to prepare for their eventual return;
The idea that during the year of peace all the House Lorde wouldn’t come up with a unified strategy to deal with the Clans;
The idea that the IS would offer their units up piecemeal – one RCT at a time for the entire invasion – where are the after battle reports that should have been disseminated to other unit commanders – where is the uniting of many RCTs into one Army group to fight the Clans upon important worlds – in all reality by the end of the second / early third wave they should have been facing 3 RCTs at once – and by the start of the fifth (post year of peace) expect 5 RCTs per world at a minimum;
Plus the idea of a proxy war for Terra with ComStar – could they have come up with anything more cringe worthy of an idea and only for 15 years? If this was allowed then why not go straight for making the whole invasion illegal and kicking them out of the IS?;
The idea that during the 15 years of peace the IS would do nothing to build up their forces for this entire time;
Huntress – destroying all the factories and not returning to the IS with even a shred of Clan Technology;
The idea that the ARDC would not attack the JF or the Wolfs when they had not practically decimated each other during their war;
The idea that the W could reeve the SJ and the DC would not attck;
The idea that their fellow Clansmen would allow the JF and W to reave their Clans to get their numbers up without a Trial of Absorption;
Do I really need to go on? The Clan invasion writing has so many holes in it is resembling Swiss Cheese at this stage!
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OPERATION Bulldog and Serpent
Can anyone explain how only one clan was chosen politically for this defies all political understanding of the situation – as a united Star League once more there is but one political solution – kicking them all out! - there is no way any lord from a rival house would accept helping their revival at the expense of their own house’s security.
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…..but they were not as bad as most of the others
This is an odd phrase – the Germans in Paris weren’t as bad as those on the Russian front ….. comes to mind here.
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I do wonder if they couldn't make extendable docking collars for jumpships
Agree – they already have arms that come out and latch onto the side of the Dropship to hold it in place, so why not a larger one to hold it within the bubble?
As for the Octopus – this should have been around at the earliest days of Jumpship construction – tug to move ships, dropships and large sections of ships into place. Or did they have shuttles with arms on them previous to this?
Exodus route – unfortunately the maps of this era are non-existent as well as any writings on the subject – 6,000,000 people and no one wrote a diary and this was never kept hidden in the family?
What if the diary was from a former SLDF Naval Officer – Navigator - and it included all the coordinates?
Would have made for a great read + it would provide the route they took, worlds seen / used for water etc + loss of any ships ….
So what would happen if this book was taken by their descendant free-born when the Clans invaded the IS – and was taken by a Government agent when they raided the building they were in?
So starts the adventure …..
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
Edited by Requiem (03/02/20 05:08 PM)
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ghostrider
03/03/20 04:05 AM
66.74.60.165
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Now you are explaining the issues between developers and the people writing the books. Most of those doing the novels don't stick with the rules. For some, I don't even think they know much about the game.
Case in point. One novel had a warrior use his jump jets, to do a somersault in the air, and not land on the people watching the parade they were in.
And you need to reread some of what happened during the year of peace. The IS did start fortifying worlds and setting traps. The put large amount of units on specific worlds to have the clans strike at them there, yet the clans started to ignore them, until they took other worlds that could support the massed forces.
Painting all the clans with one brush is getting in the way of understanding. The example of Germans in France and Russia isn't accurate. It would be like Italians verses German occupation. And the others that went with Germany when they started the war, are not really mentioned. I wonder why? Maybe because they were not all that violent?
I do agree, the developers do not seem to be story writers, just coming up with new things the throw into the game. The fluff is what is getting the most flak about things. For some, like the Jihad, it looks more like a money grab then not. But then all games have done things like this. Just not as bad.
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Requiem
03/03/20 04:58 AM
101.185.82.147
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The IS did start fortifying worlds and setting traps. The put large amount of units on specific worlds to have the clans strike at them there, yet the clans started to ignore them, until they took other worlds that could support the massed forces.
Can you please let me know where this is located, Thanks.
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The example of Germans in France and Russia isn't accurate.
I would not say it isn’t accurate, by invasion Clan I would go with the following WW2 analogy when attempting to understand Clan / IS relationships….
Cats, Wolves, Bears - France
Falcons - Poland
Jaguars – Russia (Einsatzgruppen)
Steel Viper - Russia (Normal soldiers)
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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Requiem
07/12/20 10:09 PM
1.158.192.25
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Source: https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Gustrell#Planetary_History
Quote, "In 2746 the 2nd Lyran Guards were deployed to Gustrell. Gustrell was located inside the Rim Worlds Republic's borders, but considered itself an independent world, despite the lack of a local 'Mech garrison. The deployment of the 2nd Guards was prompted by evidence discovered by the LIC indicating that a mercenary unit under contract to Gustrell's planetary government was responsible for a brutal assault on a Lyran research station in the Dark Nebula. The 2nd was deployed to Gustrell in retaliation."
Therefore ... there is a Lyran research station in the Dark Nebula!
can I now ask what else is within the Dark Nebula?
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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ghostrider
07/13/20 04:11 AM
66.74.60.165
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Depending on how large it is, a few star systems.
Nebula tend to be larger then a single solar system. It could well be that the LC had something 2 lightyears away from Camelot Command and never found it. As nebula tend to be thick with dust, you wouldn't be able to see it with telescopes.
This does make you wonder if the LC wasn't more anxious to destroy the RWR and take it over, then the story suggests.
Also the question comes up on if the Gustrell government even knew of the station. This sounds more like a ploy then anything else. It may well have been the SLDF destroying things to keep Camelot secret.
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Requiem
07/13/20 10:26 AM
1.158.192.25
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What it suggests is that its position was a known fact to many governments
So where in the map is it? How big is it etc? AND what exactly was the Research station Researching – being in the nebula you would begin to speculate that whatever it was it must have been incredibly valuable and dangerous to be isolated.
What I am suggesting is that it must have been a Black site.
And then to be removed from all future maps you begin to wonder why?
Then there is the issue of the Clans / Draconis Combine – andy hidde n facility within the Dark Nebula would make for an excellent intelligence / raiding staging base.
Time to request more information.
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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ghostrider
07/13/20 01:10 PM
66.74.60.165
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It looks like you are missing information on the size of the nebula. Some are thousands of light years across. It would be like saying it stretches from Terra to the edge of the TH without any issues. The closest star to Terra is a little less then 4 light years. As they tend to be dust and gas clouds, jumping randomly around them isn't bright. So missing something even the size of Camelot is very possible. Also, they tend to lack any real stars, so recharging the jump drives is going to be fusion only. And with how delicate the jumpsails are made out to be, deploying one would most likely end in it being destroyed before you could even get it out. Then gravity is another issue.
Not sure about the LC station. It could have just been researching something like how stars are formed in nebula. Trying to find ways to use the nebula for, well, anything. Then again, it could have been looking for the next chemical to wipe out enemy worlds. I don't really know. Dangerous it may have been, but if it isn't a black site, isolated would not be the key. It may have been the beginning research that created the TSM.
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Requiem
07/13/20 06:46 PM
1.158.192.25
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It looks like you are missing information on the size of the nebula.
So? Yes we know the Nebula is vast the canon map indicates this fact.
Still does not change the fact that the exact location of the Research Station was known for the raid to commence.
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It could have just been researching something like how stars are formed in nebula.
Does not warrant the use of a military raiding unit.
So what would warrant the use of a military unit? What are they really after?
Lack of information in the game once more so that all anyone can do is speculate ….
If something is added to the game then add it to the game! The idea of just making a note and walking away crates more and more holes in the game ….
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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ghostrider
07/14/20 12:28 PM
66.74.60.165
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I would agree that the location would have to be known in order to raid it. But was it really raided? Did the government make that up, just to hit the RWR forces? Might have been someone that pissed off the CO of the unit that hit the RWR, or maybe he wanted to settle a score with someone else? We know how retcons work.
How do you know what a research station is researching? Unless you have someone there, the official information could probably be just a cover. It has been known that mistakes have been made, or maybe even out of date. The station could have been researching a new laser, and ended that a few days or months before the raid hit.
The planting of rumors, or just someone lying outright have caused fights in the past. Why not here?
And this is another example of saying they need to let GMs make up thing, yet contradicting that by saying it should be written in stone.
One more possibility is that the military unit just came upon the station and hit it, as they thought it might be a listening post or some such thing. It could well be they thought it was the beginning of something like Camelot Command and took it out. There is a few possibilities for someone looking for a scenario, or set up a future story line.
As the story says they believed the RWR hit the base, what would happen if the SLDF hit it, as it was too close to Camelot? A perfect time to fake evidence, as the SL could not be seen hitting the research station.
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Requiem
07/14/20 06:35 PM
1.158.211.140
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But was it really raided?
Yes it was raided!
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How do you know what a research station is researching?
Because “Research” is in its name …. If it was anything else then there would have been a military presence there.
As for planting a rumor … this would indicate a trap … and as such where is the spring and the hammer piece to kill the rat? Ie. if they invade then your forces should be there to destroy them … and as they are not there … no trap and no rumor.
So how big and what type of facility was actually there? … as there is no information each GM can make it up as they like!
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the military unit just came upon the station and hit it, as they thought it might be a listening post or some such thing.
So with this logic military units should have just come upon Camelot Command ….. sorry but the Nebula is too vast and scanners are too shot … you need the exact location otherwise you will never find them in the Nebula …. So again back to Snord finding maps that lead you there ….
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what would happen if the SLDF hit it, as it was too close to Camelot?
Easy, proof obtained that the SLDF committed the strike …. Take them to the Supreme Court as they are not above the Law, then leak everything to the press, in all probability the SLDF will have to give up a sacrificial lamb, declare the action rogue and pay damages …
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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ghostrider
07/15/20 03:31 AM
66.74.60.165
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So if I name a station Bunny Breeding, that means I am not making weapons or building ships there. Got it.
And to not have any sort of protection would be stupid. The station itself is an expensive thing to build. Even if it was just refining nebula gasses for medical purposes.
Again, not showing any devious thoughts with the planted information. ANYONE that found the station could plant it, including other houses, disgruntled employees, rival companies and a whole line of others. Might even be a weapons manufacturer trying to drum up business. Start a war to make some profit. And yes, CEO's would definitely do something like that, especially if it hurts a rival.
You really believe that every strike done in secret if found out to be the exact person or entity that did it?
Not a chance. As mercs were used at the time, hiring one of them, while making it look like someone else hired them is a common tactic. Then again the 'Death Commandos' raid on the NAIS was never solved.
To be honest, any sort of jump into an unknown region could bring you close enough to a special facility in space. I completely agree that it is highly unlikely to find something close enough, but it is possible. Even a hint at something might be found at a set of coords could bring someone there. And with Camelot, it should have good sensors as well as some remote sensors further out to make sure it remained a secret.
This also depends on which station was built first. The LC one may have been there before Camelot was done.
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Requiem
07/15/20 06:59 AM
1.158.211.140
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I agree Bunny Breeding is very important ….. strap an Atlas to the back and let them hop into battle like the Knights of old is the way forward ……
It is no wonder the research station was attacked …. That rabbit is a killer!
https://www.google.com/search?q=monty+py...me&ie=UTF-8
Above link to Monty Python The Holy Grail – The Killer Bunny – YouTube
I agree the information could be a plant – problem is the cost of putting a research station out there – then having it attacked – the return on your investment is not that great if all you get is a one renegade unit. If you go to these extremes you would expect the return on investment is something or someone of importance.
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Then again the 'Death Commandos' raid on the NAIS was never solved.
Hanse worked it out once he saw ComGuard Mechs!
I agree, who knows what is in the Dark Nebula – there could be anything in there – we all need more information on this LC facility.
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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ghostrider
07/15/20 12:07 PM
66.74.60.165
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Still missed the point on the station. The company that put it out there, would not be the one to put out the rumors. The whole concept could just be to cost the company that owns it a lot of money, and possible lose what ever research they had.
And seen the Vorpal Bunny a long time ago. It was funny back then and still gets a laugh now.
Maybe the Bunnies are robotic in nature, and carried small tactical nukes to assassinate targets. Or might have just breed them for food. And this is starting to get bad.
Most likely the LC station was hit when the RWR military found out it was even there. It may well have been mistaken as the secret base the SLDF had that rumors suggested was there. Then again, something like raiders that were looking for any sort of item to steal and sell could have done it.
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Requiem
07/15/20 04:53 PM
1.158.211.140
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Still missed the point on the station.
Not really, we all know that the Government / Massive corporation that put the station in the Dark Nebula does so in a manner to ensure its safety.
However, somewhere along the line we get a domino effect - the information about its exact location was leaked – a unit was dispatched to raid the research station – a second unit was dispatched to hunt down those who raided the research station – those captured will be interrogated to ascertain if they still have the research taken or have they already provided the research to their employer – if possible their employer will be found as well as how the information was leaked – if further vengeance is possible a second unit will be dispatched to not only get that vengeance but to also get back whatever was taken in the first place;
Just remember that bunny is a killer ….. can I ask for the stats for a Holy Hand-Grenade Launcher of Antioch so that I can have one placed on my Mech …. Just remember to count to three, not four and five is right out of the question…..
Problem is the Nebula is so big and the station so small – exact coordinates are required by the raiders.
Whatever their aim is they raided the facility – killed its occupants – stole information / assets ….
They and whoever put them up to it will be punished … one way or another …..
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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