ghostrider
07/06/21 01:15 AM
45.51.181.83
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Playing the non canon Mechwarrior 5: Mercenaries, the game has caused a thought to come up, and I would like some feedback on if it would be feasible.
Given the huge numbers Kerensky had going into the fight with Amaris, knowing there would be huge losses of units in the battle, and with even canon having hundreds of regiments worth of troops found in caches across the IS, would it be likely that the SLDF started hiding units around the IS, just incase they failed to retake the TH portion of the IS?
It might well explain the huge 'losses' in units during the war. It may well be that factions within the SLDF decided to trim down machines, as they were looking forward to the future that the houses might try to take the TH worlds by force after the Amaris war. The decision to leave the IS by Kerensky could have derailed their notions of reclaiming those units, or might have been additional stashes place when Kerensky did decide to return.
We know Comstar recovered over 50 regiments worth of units, including upgraded ones, which would not have been left behind without being stripped of high tech items. The find on Galtor was another largish find.
It just doesn't make that much sense for all these caches to be around and the SLDF supposedly being hard pressed to replace the units lost in retaking Terra and the TH.
I do understand heavy losses coming from the nuke fest that happened, but it still doesn't make sense to have all those caches around with units they could use while recovering.
Just a though, but would like some feedback.
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Requiem
07/06/21 03:50 AM
1.158.227.122
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Kerensky lost well over 95% of his total forces …
Upon calling up his forces to engage Amaris’ Kerensky ordered all forces to rendezvous – with whatever they were able to bring with them – all remining logistics / equipment within hidden fortifications would be entombed within to ensure no House forces or Amaris forces will gain access in the future …
Upon winning the war and the reticence of the house lords he decided to leave these vast stockpiles of of weapons hidden – entombed underground throughout the IS.
The huge losses during the war were due to Kerensky being a social general and his extremely limited understanding of war upon this scale.
Nuke fest …. Really? Given the size of the Fleet he commanded orbital bombardment should have reduced this threat to near nil.
As far as I can see Kerensky is the single worst General to have ever commanded an army … and that is saying something!
It is also conceivable that Kerensky decided not to plunder these bases during the initial build up / during the war as he decided that they were to be his strategic reserve forces in the eventuality that Amaris prevailed - the star League would retreat and rearm and then begin a second invasion to defeat Amaris’ forces by utilizing these hidden logistical supply depos.
Also – given the WOB forces is quite easy to guess that ComStars’ BattleMech forces could have been built and not found upon their hidden worlds …
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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ghostrider
07/06/21 12:05 PM
45.51.181.83
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The nuke fest was not just land, but with things like the SDS systems that were designed to wipe out fleets entering a system. Granted, the game changes how powerful nukes are from the time they are used in the Amaris war to present.
Burying the weapons of war to prevent the enemy from getting them doesn't make sense. If you were going to do that you would destroy them. Complete scorched earth with it. This would be especially true once the plan to leave the IS was ordered.
Do you realize the defenses that were set up in the TH? They were done so even if all the houses attacked at once, they could survive the onslaught.
The concept here is that you don't have to face ground forces if they can't reach you. How many of the losses to the SLDF were because the vessels carrying them to a planet were destroyed in space?
There is one issue with building those forces, which the hidden worlds doesn't answer. Why store 50 regiments on Terra, instead of keeping them on the worlds they were built on?
And it also suggest the production of units WOB did were out of proportion to the rest of the IS.
The original concept of this thread DID suggest units were hidden incase Amaris won. This idea was to suggest that the numbers lost might be because those units were put into storage, giving the effect of losing so many to bolster sympathy and support for the SL to gain money beyond normal taxes. Having normal people from across the IS donate to rebuild it. Or to try and soak money for the high command/government leaders personal accounts.
But mainly to see if the idea has any real merit. It doesn't make sense there were so many placed in storage and left.
Maybe this might help.
How many bases were raided during the 1st and 2nd succession wars?
Edited by ghostrider (07/06/21 12:09 PM)
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Requiem
07/06/21 07:31 PM
1.158.227.122
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The idea that the SDS systems are as successful countermeasure against warships is a misnomer - the SLDF Navy at well over 5,000 warships – thus sending in a fleet piecemeal to retake a system demonstrates a complete lack of understanding – overlapping fields of fire whist protecting the transports is standard operating procedure for the SLDF Navy
The Idea is to amass a fleet so large that when engaged by a SDS system a single mass volley will reduce it to atomic particles at maximum range ….
Remember https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Jump_Point
“Beyond a proximity limit, all of space is a valid jump "point"
Thus given the size of space one massive force can easily be established …
What this demonstrates once again is that Kerensky has no idea what he is doing …
Why bother attacking outer systems when all that is needed is to kill the head of the snake on Terra? and then attack from the inside out … remember this is space warfare not land warfare ANY fleet can use any number of paths to reach a designated target world and attack it from any direction as long as they translocate beyond the proximity limit … fleets and armies DO NOT have to attack one world at a time in order to reach a destination …
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Burying the weapons of war to prevent the enemy from getting them doesn't make sense.
Really?
Kerensky will require a reserve stockpile of weapons.
Security must be maintained – what could happen if every House were to stumble upon these bases and they looted them
Rather than having 1 Amaris Kerensky could be dealing with 6
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Do you realize the defences that were set up in the TH? They were done so even if all the houses attacked at once, they could survive the onslaught.
Really? This is hubris.
Take Terra – Take Amaris – then what happens next to his military force?
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Why store 50 regiments on Terra, instead of keeping them on the worlds they were built on?
Linus said it best “Listen Charlie Brown that old blanket soaks up all my fears and frustrations.”
What is the aim of ComStar (and WOB)? Ans: To make the IS into one Blakean Theocracy – to achieve and to maintain this will require a military force comparable to the SLDF of old in size and technological superiority.
History demonstrates this reality from Cameron’s SLDF to Rome’s Legions.
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This idea was to suggest that the numbers lost might be because those units were put into storage, giving the effect of losing so many to bolster sympathy and support for the SL to gain money beyond normal taxes. Having normal people from across the IS donate to rebuild it. Or to try and soak money for the high command/government leaders personal accounts.
Sorry but this just dot make any sense whatsoever – what is the SLDF duty? To restore order to the IS as quickly and as efficiently as possible and with the least number of casualties (both military and civilian).
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How many bases were raided during the 1st and 2nd succession wars?
All that were known to any House as the situation has become an arms race – industrialized slaughter similar to WW1.
If the Canon idea is to create a war where the TH, SL and the SLDF are destroyed upon the rocks during the Amaris War there is only really one path … civil war … the concept of Amaris needs to change to that of leader who is attempting to reform the SL (where he has only one choice – assassination) and where half of the SLDF side with him – which is not hard to see when the last two leaders of the SLDF are political appointees and are not up to the job! The Ghost of Ikolor Fredasa and his creed that the SLDF is there for the people and not the Cameron’s comes back to haunt them when the Periphery want their freedom – many within the SLDF recognise this as their inalienable right to be free, whereas Kerensky and his ilk believe that their duty is to their ruler and the State – the Periphery are rebels defying the state and must be put down!
Civil war based upon the ideology of individualism freedom Vs. the State Control over maintaining the Feudal system …
Kerensky and the other half of the SLDF now must wage war against their own former comrades …
This is the only way to explain 95% casualties.
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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ghostrider
07/06/21 08:03 PM
45.51.181.83
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It is amazing the lack of experience in tactics that gets shown by saying that you can ignore the enemy in the rear and sides, and think you can win a war. You can gather the entire fleet of ships into one large group and expect that no one will even attempt to take out ships thru things like rigged ships or suicide runs. The argument of nukes being able to wipe out a ship with each nuke, but then disregard that when it doesn't work with a concept.
You HAVE to deal with logistics, and by jumping a month or so into a region with no outside supplies coming in, doesn't work. Poisoning any of the supplies shipped in, or even destroying as much of it as you can before it reaches the SLDF 'super fleet' stops this idea entirely.
The SLDF is supposed to protect the ENTIRE TH, not just Terra. Clearing the enemy off worlds as you progress into the TH from the states was required, least you lose all support you have. The houses were not going to be helping, so supplies, like fresh food and water have to come from some where.
And with the concept of just take Terra, do you really think the TH, then SL didn't think that same thought? Why bother putting defenses around any other world as alls you would have to do is jump into the Sol system to destroy the TH/SL?
So with your view of tactics, why didn't the Allies just land in Germany in order to go straight for Hitler in WWII? Which systems were uninhabited during the time before the SL fell? A lot of systems were destroyed during and after the Amaris war. So which ones were alive when you went in?
Also, the SDS was set up to guard jump points. That meant the entire area around the two main points, and probably a lot of the pirate ones. Try stopping dropships that don't have to worry about crews, as they are designed to blow up on impact or close enough. We are not talking having to dedicate weight to life support and such. Pure speed, control and ordinance to take out a target.
To prevent an enemy from getting weapons, you either don't build them, or destroy them. Each location that they couldn't destroy them, should have been rigged to blow up when someone OTHER then your troops get to them.
If restoring order was the intent, why store the units at all? Have the next set of soldiers using them to at least train, or just have someone using them in the assault? Even if they do nothing more then soak up a few shots, it allows those that are fully trained a chance to get in a few more shots.
There are more way to explain the high casualties in the war. First off is the haste that was needed to help prevent more innocent people from dying. How many forces had to be left in the periphery as well as the states in order to keep them neutral in the conflict? Even the RWR needed patrols and such. And with suggesting that those within the SLDF were helping Amaris puts even more issues on the strain of the SLDF to defeat Amaris.
Interesting that Civil war was used to describe it, yet it really wasn't. People did side with Amaris about some things, but not enough to really suggest anything more then an armed coupe.
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Requiem
07/06/21 09:52 PM
1.158.227.122
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It is amazing the lack of experience in tactics that gets shown by saying that you can ignore the enemy in the rear and sides and think you can win a war.
Consider Sun Tzu’s the Art of War.
Then realize that the idea of fronts when undertaking a war in space is a meaningless concept - this is three-dimensional warfare! War is predicated via movement and the movement of logistics!
Poisoning of supplies – you do realize that the Star League and the SLDF annexed over 50 worlds outside the TH – and in addition to the Lyran people (on the whole) have sided with Kerensky – plus isn’t it SOP when it comes to security and supplies entering the ship especially when you realize that a Civil war has commenced? Then there is the issue of how many years of supplies are held in warehouses / hidden facilities throughout the IS.
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So with your view of tactics, why didn't the Allies just land in Germany in order to go straight for Hitler in WWII?
Really?
Question –Technology is not there! So what would have happed during WW2 if the Allies built SHIELDS flying carriers?
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the SDS was set up to guard jump points.
Not even the entire SLDF is large enough to guard a single system from the totality of jump point that can be utilized as once clear of proximity limit – consider a sphere with a proximity limit radius ANYWHERE beyond this can become a Jump point – thus the idea of placing an SDS at the Nadir and Zenith point becomes ludicrous!
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To prevent an enemy from getting weapons, you either don't build them, or destroy them.
And if they are required in the future, just like very partisan force you hide them until they are needed!
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There are more way to explain the high casualties in the war.
Haste? … more like incompetence … how many YEARS did Kerensky’s forces sit outside the TH, doing absolutely nothing of any strategic or tactical worth allowing Amaris’ forces to build in numbers and dig in fortified positions before he decided to begin the invasion?
As for the RWR why even bother at this stage?
The primary threat assessment is within the TH
Then use politics if your aim is to destroy the RWR – just tell the LC and the DC they may carve it up between the two of them ….
If you want 95% casualties then there is only incompetence or Civil War – make the choice.
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Interesting that Civil war was used to describe it, yet it really wasn't.
Civil War Definition … a war between citizens of the same country … this is a war between the citizens of the same Star League …
All periphery states (recognised as little more than Protectorates of the SL) are at war with the TH, SL And the SLDF …. Over their right to live FREE of oppression!
If the idea was to establish a great story I would have gone with my above premise – if you want a mediocre story that makes absolutely no sense and has been PR’d in such a way as portray the most incompetent general of all time into some sort of hero by all the houses (as they feared that the idea of freedom would catch on and their regime would topple also) then stick with Cannon!
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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ghostrider
07/07/21 01:15 AM
45.51.181.83
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Sun Tzu? You mean where he says the best way to win a war is to never have to fight?
No matter where you fight, you have to be careful of enemy strikes from any direction. With what you suggest, you could not respond to an attack that comes from above or below, as there is no such thing as front lines. Space makes above and below far more dangerous then simple land battles without aircraft.
Really?
Question –Technology is not there! So what would have happed during WW2 if the Allies built SHIELDS flying carriers?
Not sure what you think you are saying here. The allies had the numbers and tech on their side in order to just invade Germany proper. The numbers is what you always refer to when suggesting an invasion. The Germans would have lost far quicker had the Allies hit them closer to their capital. This is the very thing you are suggesting with just heading straight towards Terra. Flying Carriers would have helped, but then those troops would have to parachute down, and as was said before, paratroopers are so weak. This also doesn't take into account of the carriers being shot down.
You mean an airbase can not protect the borders of a state or small nation? Missiles can not shoot down anything beyond a mile or so? What does a TAG do? It says to hit this target to a missile that is fired from another location. SO a simple small remote satelite could not tell missiles that are fired from another location to hit warships and jumpships? WOW. Laser coms can bypass ecm. Only physically blocking it would stop laser coms.
So maybe you should read the posts before spouting off on them. Both the idea of keeping units back incase they fail and not leaving the caches around afterward once the war was over was already answered. Not sure why this is difficult to understand.
The DC was supporting the RWR and the LC DID carve up the RWR when the SLDF left. And did nothing while getting set to send units into the TH? Oh year. I forgot that you think spies can just walk up to someone like Amaris and ask how they are going to do something, then just send that out on the HPG network. That they can use ESP to locate all enemy forces so any invasion force can deal with them easily. That everyone during this time had a portable HPG in their back pocket that could broadcast outside of the TH. Guess teleport would come next.
Best reread the SL and Periphery. The Periphery was not citizens of the SL. They left (rebelled) then were conquered. They were occupied territory. They were not family to the TH or SL. At the time of the SL, none of the houses were part of the TH. Funny how you say that after suggesting they were of the same country.
Even more ironic is the fact that not all the houses agreed with the war in the periphery.
And yet secret SL caches still existed in all Periphery realms after that war and the succession wars. How does that make sense?
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Requiem
07/07/21 03:24 AM
1.158.227.122
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Sun Tzu, The Art of War …
Move swift as the Wind and closely-formed as the Wood. Attack like the Fire and be still as the Mountain.
Let your plans be dark and impenetrable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.
All warfare is based on deception. Hence, when we are able to attack, we must seem unable; when using our forces, we must appear inactive; when we are near, we must make the enemy believe we are far away; when far away, we must make him believe we are near.
In the midst of chaos, there is also opportunity.
There is no instance of a nation benefitting from prolonged warfare.
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SDS - The direction of battle
With regards to SDS – their only viable use is as a stopgap measure above a world, in which multiple emplacements would enable a protective sphere around the planet and allow for the establishment of an early warning detection screen. They would thus be utilized as a first wave counter measure against any invading forces, which would then be quickly reinforced by any warships present.
Or they could be controlled by a warship to augment their firepower.
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Not sure what you think you are saying here.
Transport – Operation Market Garden proved quite convincingly that any para drop that was not reinforced quickly would be destroyed – especially when you drop on a division of panzer tanks.
The same goes for invading Germany WW2 – The Allies did not have Hercules Aircraft (or a SHIELD Carrier), at this stage, and in numbers, to allow for the complete transport of Patton’s Army over the Rhine to enable a counter- attack.
The only way, therefore, was via a ground assault over a bridge!
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The numbers is what you always refer to when suggesting an invasion.
Unless your aim is to destabilize the government – then multiple small teams would be required …
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The Germans would have lost far quicker had the Allies hit them closer to their capital.
Google - images of the bombing of Berlin. – which resulted in ….
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They were not family to the TH or SL. At the time of the SL, none of the houses were part of the TH. Funny how you say that after suggesting they were of the same country.
As stated above - recognised as little more than Protectorates of the SL.
ie they are in the same boat as Guam to the USA!
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And yet secret SL caches still existed in all Periphery realms after that war and the succession wars. How does that make sense?
Prior to the Amaris conflict how many thousands of bases did the SLDF occupy throughout the IS? And how many of these were established within the Periphery to keep an eye on them?
The Star League is a repressive system – it is a wonder it lasted as-long-as it did.!
Just like many of the Houses who ruled - it is a wonder they lasted at all as the majority of their leaders were completely incompetent or worse – a detriment to the realm they were supposed to ruling … usually such individuals were killed off and replaced very quickly …
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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ghostrider
07/07/21 01:22 PM
45.51.181.83
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You mean everyone under the stars has the location of every pirate point in the galaxy? Not even close.
All throughout the game, they continue to say that you need the coords to pirate points in order to use them. Most don't have access to them, and get stuck using the prime jump points.
Now in the day and age of the SL, space stations were numerous around some solar systems. The numbers of ships moving thru the TH, much less Terra, would have been more in an hour then 3025 seen in a week. There would be a large number of stations to help deal with the flow, as more then a few were just passing thru. This would also mean having to have some sort of law enforcement and customs to deal with those going to Earth. This is the time that your plentiful spacecraft would have existed.
So flinging soldiers with a catapult didn't equate to paratroopers? We are not talking WWII infantry. We are talking infantry that is trained to fight armored units including mechs. Not anti mech infantry, like the kind that does the knee capping and swarm attacks, but do know how to deal with mechs otherwise. You suggest a farmer with a hammer and spike can kill an elemental, but normally trained infantry can't perform when dropped from the air/HALO?
As with every unit not equipped with fusion engines and energy weapons, you will run out of ammo. Doesn't matter what troops they are, including mechs.
The numbers of troops involved in D-Day would have been sufficient to take German shores. This is NOT saying a large chunk would survive. But landing in Germany would have allowed the invasion to cut short the war, as the Germans would have to run the shore defenses and such back to Germany, hoping they get there in time. With taking out the fuel supplies, that wasn't likely. But this scenario is what you are talking about when saying go straight for earth.
And if Guam revolts, it is not a civil war.
Again, the concept of a government is not the same as having those in power destroy it. The Star League was no repressive as set up. Those in power moved it to their empire. This is why a single family can NOT retain control over a nation. This is why families must be removed from power, to avoid this very issue coming up. The problem with this stems from money. Those in power acquire money, and the backing of money. This leads to power blocs getting away with crimes, further increasing their power. It is history of the world. NO form of government can retain it's initial promise once this chain of events gets to a certain point.
Some repression is needed to run a nation properly. The problem is come people think they can do what ever they want. These people think laws don't apply to them, and have to be 'repressed' in order to avoid them hurting others. It is the cry of the guilty that think they are above the law.
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Requiem
07/07/21 07:36 PM
1.158.227.122
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You mean everyone under the stars has the location of every pirate point in the galaxy? Not even close.
Concept misunderstanding – this is NOT a pirate point within the system – as it is translocating OUTSIDE the proximity limit!
As such the jump-ship can translocate ANYWHERE along this border and not just at the nadir / zenith point.
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We are not talking WWII infantry.
Previous post indicated topic as WWII infantry.
However …
Jump Infantry – just as the para forebearers terrain will have an effect upon effectiveness – lightly armed – will require support for any long term combat operations.
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You suggest a farmer with a hammer and spike can kill an elemental,
Upon reading this story you would have read that the elemental, upon running after a partisan into a building, cut a tripwire which set of a spike that fell from the roof on a pendulum with a massive weight behind it. The shear force of which empaled the elemental. The DC old man and his granddaughter then walked up to the now empaled elemental - who was unable to move – she put the second spike on his helmet, the old man used his sledgehammer and drove the spike into the elementals head!
Thus it is reasonable to suggest that if a high calibre round strikes the front of the helmet – the weakest point on the armour there is a very good change of it penetrating into the elementals head – and in all likelihood killing them outright!
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As with every unit not equipped with fusion engines and energy weapons, you will run out of ammo.
And those that are equipped?
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Fusion_Engine
- an supply great quantities of power, enough to power massive vehicles and all of their weapon systems, including directed energy weapons common on the modern battlefield.
- fusion engines are so efficient, they practically never need refuelling.
- can usually last for decades on a few kilograms of hydrogen.
Thus an almost unlimited amount of energy available to energy weapons.
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But landing in Germany would have allowed the invasion to cut short the war,
Then where do you suggest D-Day target should have been and what transportation is being utilized?
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And if Guam revolts, it is not a civil war.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guam
“People born in Guarm are American citizens by birth.”
“In a 1982 plebiscite, voters indicated interest in seeking commonwealth status.[62] However, the federal government rejected the version of a commonwealth that the government of Guam proposed, because its clauses were incompatible with the Territorial Clause (Art. IV, Sec. 3, cl. 2) of the U.S. Constitution.”
Really? The US Constitution would say otherwise!
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The Star League was no repressive as set up.
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Mother_Doctrine
Mother doctrine – raising the standard of living WITHIN the Hegemony whilst the Great Houses surrounding them became less advanced as a result … thus maintaining a higher economic standard for one and yet all others must be second or third level economic states … and this is not repressive?
“The government itself also allowed the release of certain closely held secrets, most notably terraforming and other related technologies, serving as the carrot to entice the surrounding realms to agree to Margaret's Jointly-Owned Worlds proposal, giving the resource depleted Hegemony access to new desperately needed sources of raw resources.”
Then it is not being repressive to use technology advancement as an enforcement tool?
Then there is the issue of Bases – How about the Massive Space Station located above the Lyran Capitol World – This is not being repressive to a foreign government?
Then there is the issue of Military size of each House – allowing the SLDF an unlimited size and strength, however each house is limited to a very small fraction of this – and this is not repressive?
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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ghostrider
07/08/21 03:15 AM
45.51.181.83
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The entire edge of any system is not stored in nav computers. There are just too many in the IS alone to overload a system. Part of why they have cores with such points. It is possible to get one, but it is not something every computer has on file. Stupid that a PC today probably has more computing power then in the game even with the clans tech.
Remove paratrooper from your infantry statement and see how normal infantry hold up. Infantry in any form has issues lasting long times without supplies. The paratrooper drop was meant to divert or stall enemy forces from going thru an area. They were NOT MEANT to hold off an invasion force for years. Use them as they are meant to be. No Infantry can hold off a full invasion force for any real length of time.
Elemental armor is the same as mech armor. Writers of novels have the funny ability to add in things into their novels which are NOT supported by the game. Now, with that said, it is possible, though very, very unlikely, they found a weak point, such as a repair job done wrong, and hit it in the right spot with the hammer method. The swinging spike is more likely to do something. The game is known for not using real logic, as more then a few bullet type fired from specific weapons should penetrate mech armor. Having shots that can penetrate elemental armor with ease, means they can penetrate cockpit armor with ease. You get this point? The kings of the battlefield would fall quickly to sniper shots, removing their king of the battlefield moniker.
The point is not all energy weapons are attached to a fusion engine. ICE needs amps, while infantry weapons tend to have batteries with them. Mechs that run on ICE, like converted workmechs, or are ammo only, such as a missile javelin, run out of ammo. Mechs that move can also use physical attacks, but that is outside of the example.
The D-Day example would use the equipment available to the forces on the day, only focus them all on one point in Germany. Just like the suggestion of hitting Terra with all the forces available to Kerensky when they first started into the TH region. What is so hard to understand here? Oh yeah. It would mean those invading would take horrible losses because they tried that tactic. More then the whole slow advance across Africa and France did. You suggest the clans had issues bringing in all the supplies they needed, yet seem to suggest Kerensky could bring everything he needed in to attack Terra and have no issues. Something is wrong with this picture..
Guam was denied becoming a state due to it conflicting with the Territorial status it was given. You do realize that people born to U.S. citizens out of country are considered U.S. citizens? So there is a very confuse idea with this being a civil war. As being a territory, not a state, it falls under a different category.
This situation caused friction with the other less advanced but more resource rich Great Houses
Love the comprehensive reading here. Suggest you read what is there before trying to say something is the truth. It does NOT say those around it became less advanced. The TH kept their techonology to themselves, they did not prevent the others from doing the research as well. They did not enslave or otherwise force the houses to force harsh conditions on their citizens. The houses started forcing the TH/SL to do that to the periphery.
SOME tech was restricted by the TH when discovered in the TH. They did not actively bomb or otherwise destroy the research done outside of the TH.
By the definition you give, restricting food to another realm is repressive. Not rebuilding their nation because of bad choices would be as well. And if the houses found it that bad, they would have just quit. They knew the TH would retain military supremacy. They were the police force of the IS. It is not repressive to avoid giving out your advantage to other nations. Going in and forcing them to do the work, while you do nothing is.
Repressive is not having things, but doing things. The issue described is not repressive, but intimidation. It moves to repression when you start extorting everyone to do your bidding. Such as demanding they give out massive amounts of resources for absolutely nothing.
Is it fair that the SLDF was that much larger then the house militaries? Probably not, but why would you need a huge military and suffer the costs when the police force of humanity had it? It all comes down to when corruption gets a hold of the system. Knowing the other houses could not invade, and not having to personally pay for a huge army helped a lot of worlds get started. By a mech, or build a water purifier? Guard that purifier while building another. Buying a ship to move product, or having to buy a company of vehicles to protect it all... When the league was corrupted under the last few lords, then you worry about the military. Done right, you have the basis to create the army rather quickly, and still afford it. This is not saying a slow build up is neglected. It is saying that you use the funds you would waste in an arms race when it wasn't needed.
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Requiem
07/08/21 08:32 PM
1.158.227.122
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The entire edge of any system is not stored in nav computers.
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Jump_Point
The word Traditionally is used!
Please explain …
The entire exodus from earth to worlds unknown, including future expeditions to find new worlds.
The idea that Jump-ships do not constantly crash into one another when proceeding to an important world where it would be expected you would find multiple ships - where the use of exact coordinates would ensure massive number of collisions and on a regular basis.
How about military fleets of jump-ships transporting a planetary invasion.
Kerensky’s exodus to worlds unknown.
The cannon war of 3039 in the use of non-standard Jump points.
The return of the Clans as well as their so-called logistics fleets.
Operation Serpent.
And the list goes on and on …. The Navi computer does not need to hold all the coordinates by its very nature the navigator has the ability to modify exact co-ordinates, so the probability is reduced – this indicating that the computer has a X, Y, Z coordinate system to allow the navigator to make adjustments.
This also indicates that the computing power of Jump-ships Navi Comps must by their vey nature be way more advanced than anything we have now - as if their computers were less than now the number of mis-jumps or collisions at the jump-point would be vastly increased – especially with mass military and civilian traffic areas.
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Infantry in any form has issues lasting long times without supplies.
This is why there is a survival school attached to all Infantry, living off the land ….
This is also used when infantry enters guerrilla warfare tactics …
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They were NOT MEANT to hold off an invasion force for years.
Consider
Operation Deadstick – originally Benouville now Pegasus Bridge - Hold until relieved
Operation Market Garden – Arnhem
The list goes on …
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No Infantry can hold off a full invasion force for any real length of time.
Depends on too many circumstances to be considered a totally accurate statement …
Does the infantry have access to support – tanks, air-support, artillery, Mechs, Warships etc
Also depends on what is assaulting them at the same time – is it just infantry or reinforced.
Also depends upon the geography involved – Islands Pacific Vs. Italy Mountain Vs. Europe Hedges etc
Also depends upon preparation for invasion – bunkers, fixed firing positions etc
Also depends on the reaction of generals on both sides – Anzio!
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Elemental armor is the same as mech armor.
Canon? – what about their face plate that enables them to see is that armour also? Or are they supposed to be looking at a screen 24/7 – and if that is the case can I have a long-range paint ball gun to cover their optics with paint!
You do realize that if this was the case then the elemental within the armour would in no way be able to move it as the weight of the armour would produce a paperweight.
What is the thickness of a Mech Armour Vs that of an elemental armour = weight.
Then there is the idea of Inferno Rounds and support weapons – what happens when the entire infantry are issued with Ultra-Heavy Support Lasers to counter the Toads and multiple units are assigned to hit a single Toad the same time? Numbers will win out! One Battalion = 300 to 1,000 individuals all assigned … to how many Toads?
Sorry but no, the toads get fried!
Energy weapons – does each infantry person just have one battery for their gun or do they have multiple batteries - and how many people are assigned to recharging these during the battle so that those who are on the front line do not run out of batteries?
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The D-Day example would use the equipment available to the forces on the day, only focus them all on one point in Germany.
As stated above – where on the map is this alternate D-Day landing site?
Any invasion location is predicated upon transportation ability …
Technology – security – numbers etc – WW2 Vs Amaris age are apples and oranges.
Kerensky has the numbers and the ability to strike at Terra with a massive sledgehammer on day one
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Something is wrong with this picture.
Tyranny of Distance
Clans re-supply for invasion 6 months distance
Kerensky – 5000 + warships with an existing Logistics chain already in existence spreading all throughout the Inner Spere and the Periphery and how many of those existing basses were majore re-supply hubs for distribution utizing a hub and spoke arrangement – ie no tyranny of distance whatsoever when it comes to logistics.
So yes – Kerensky does have the ability to amass a vast amount of logistics quickly from the pre-existing logistics chain within the IS – the Clans however had to rely upon shipping all logistics re-supply from Clan space that was 6 months travel time just to reach the periphery boundary + more time added just to reach the front lines.
You do realize that a civil war is a war between citizens both are the same citizens – they are allowed into the same military – and yet you are not allowed to vote?
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It does NOT say those around it became less advanced.
Really? Sorry but yes it does … simple economis.
When Clinton signed the US-China Relations Act of 2000 what happed to a great many jobs within the US in comparison to that of China? China economy has progressed in leaps and bounds and what about the US economy now and 50 years down the track? Globalization theory.
The same comparison can be made here – Economic prosperity within the TH and higher standard of living reduced unemployment etc In comparison to the houses who cannot keep up … also consider balance of trade …
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And if the houses found it that bad, they would have just quit.
And how did that work out for the Periphery states? …. When the SLDF has a vastly superior military and is willing to go as far as situating a massive space station and warships above your capital world, the writing is clear that will NOT accept anyone leaving no matter what – any attempt WILL be met with hostile force!
So once again the Star League and the SLDF ARE acting the same as that as Rome and their Legions – VERY REPRESSIVE to those not of their citizenship. This is again a clear example from the book Animal Farm.
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When the league was corrupted under the last few lords
IS Canon History clearly demonstrates that the Star League was corrupt prior to and completely through its entire existence …
Even prior to its establishment it should have been clear that the whole experiment was doomed – Cameron and his Marik Ilk built the Star league on quicksand and not beadrock …
It was just a matter of time until the whole sorry mess fell over!
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Done right, you have the basis to create the army rather quickly, and still afford it.
Done right all the House Lords should have been operating the same as Germany when they were restricted in military numbers.
Build a massive military in secret until it is needed.
Once any sigh of weakness is displayed – go for the throat!
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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ghostrider
07/09/21 04:09 AM
45.51.181.83
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So you confirmed that the entire edge of a solar system is not stored in the nav computer.
The discussion was using paratroopers to block an enemy's retreat. It does not matter if they learn to live off the land. It was stated by you, they are too weak to do anything of the sort. Given the response you gave, all infantry are too weak to do much when they lack supplies. So by that definition, infantry is worthless in your mind.
Get out of the middle ages and stop quoting things that don't deal with the topics. Talking Battletech infantry being deployed in the path of a retreating enemy, and you said they couldn't do anything. Now you come up with garbage from the past to say they can? Figure it out.
Let's see. Elementals have 15 points of armor according to the damage sheets. This is for the standard form that was used during the initial invasion. SO almost a ton of armor on the powered frame. Not difficult to figure that one out.
And why do you think the pilot doesn't see a screen or display instead of looking out of the armor?
There is a story of infantry using metallic flaked paint in order to screw up a mechs MAD sensors. The game rules don't cover this. Also lighting a mech on fire should remove the infrared scanners on it for a while as well.
If you roll like garbage, then all your infantry miss the target. Why is this even asked? But then comes the counter question of you all aim at one elemental. Do you think the rest of them will just stand around until you aim at another one? I would think they would be killing the morons that all shot at one elemental.
I take it you have never looked over infantry weapons. Up to BMR, the normal amount of batteries is 1. You can get and carry more, but the weight is a problem. This is for the RPG. In the board game, laser infantry don't run out of charge. Just like SRM infantry don't run out of ammo. Done so you don't have to worry about keeping track.
Really. Take a look at the IS map and plot out just how many jumps there are to get to Terra from any periphery state. No command chains. 1 week to recharge. OH... more then a month.. Some over 6 months. Look over you numbers again. 6 months is the same as the clans have. And oddly enough, most of the caches that weren't seized when the succession wars started, were not the main ones used for supplies. So that logic falls flat.
Reason falls short when you see how many caches were left with items in them, and saying the SLDF needed to be rebuilt. I can understand not having room to take it with them, but that would mean destroying the stuff when you leave, unless you plan to come back later.
Really? Sorry but yes it does … simple economis.
I did not see ANYTHING in the wiki stating this. Speculation does not equate to something being quoted. There is nothing in the print that supports your changing the writing.
To become less advanced, the SL would have had to go on an education ban and destroy knowledge the houses already had. And then kill all professors and educated people in order to reduce how advanced they are.
This is NOT the same thing as not keeping up with the advancement of others.
Hmm. The periphery was rebelling against the SL's maneuvers, with the houses pushing to get out of issues by making the periphery the bad guys. The houses could very well have left the SL and not been hit. To do so, would destroy the entire premise of the SL. The periphery did NOT join the SL when formed. They were forced into it, and when they said no more, were attacked. They had no choice about joining.
One incident was what finally doomed the SL. Had Kurita given the message of Davion being the next lord, the SL would not have fallen like it did. This is not saying it would not have fallen, but not in the way it did.
The RWR did that, and look what happened. The Davions did that and got pounded because they waited too long to use it.
And the houses did get benfits from the SL. The LC got Defiance. Liao got a boost in standing and support to build their economy up. The FWL got stability as the feuding houses in the FWL had to come together to join the SL. Kurita gained from not having to worry as much about the border and fix their economy. Terraforming tech is very powerful as well.
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Requiem
07/09/21 09:35 AM
1.158.227.122
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Middle ages???
Elementals – Technical Readout 3050 Page 234 Battle armour record sheet – how many points?
You Improvise, You Overcome, You Adapt …
How hard is it to assign a number of units to a single target – Echo 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5 then have them fire as required?
There are multiple other weapons infantry can use against Toads.
Support PPC –https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Support_Particle_Cannon “Makes an effective weapon for combating BattleMechs”
Inferno missile.
Support armour / VTOL
Artillery / aerospace called in for danger close
Probability of rolling a positive response is?
Caches – consider the number that have never been found as well as the number that were within bases prior to the call to relocate … as no one knows the total number of bases or their location who knows what was used and what was not used.
Each house received something – Question - did any house ever have the same level of technology or military technology as that as the TH? And did the SLDF ever let them forget that they are never to progress beyond a certain point? And was it part of their duty to the SL that every House had a quota to fulfill as to the number of military people they were to supply …..
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
Edited by Requiem (07/09/21 09:38 AM)
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ghostrider
07/09/21 12:34 PM
45.51.181.83
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Sticks and stones were used by the cave man to fight. Then came things like crude bows. Bone, stone and such gave way to copper, then iron, then steel and beyond. Ways of killing others progressed. You can defend a pass against hundreds of soldiers with a machine gun nest. Something you could not do with a simple stick.
224 is the last page of the TRO:3050 version that I have. No where in there does it show the hit points of an elemental. Surprisingly the Compendium has 10 hit points, while the BMR has 15. It took a few moments to realize why that might be. The newer elemental armor types would require the generic sheets to have max shown, then you can fill in to what they have. I thought the 15 was off.
222-223 has the Puma tank on them, incase you wanted to know.
It is funny, but sad, that you believe infantry have all these tools that just pop out their backside on demand. Setting up traps does work. The problem is when they don't do what is expected of them.
Calling in resources works for ALL units of the game. Sending a battalion of mechs up against 1 or even 4 mechs is likely to end in the targets being eliminated.
But again, you lose the fact that only so many infantry can fit in a battletech hex. Having a single elemental stand out in a clear open hex so your rifle infantry can shoot at them isn't a scenario that will happen often.
Caches – consider the number that have never been found as well as the number that were within bases prior to the call to relocate … as no one knows the total number of bases or their location who knows what was used and what was not used.
Now that statement shows you what I was talking about. Regiments of units, including regiments of mechs, were found in caches, with some being a complete regiment in one location, then suggesting the SLDF had to rebuild does not fit. They left so much in complete resources, it isn't even funny. The 4th war had the Goliath unit uncovered in the CC. Around a company. One small cache. Mercs get started from finding caches is a semi common start.
So with all the damage done during the periphery war and Amaris war, the SL was able to build thousands of mech, from damaged and destroyed factories, yet had this vast reserve they left untouched? Or even more amazing, they stocked it during the rebuilding phase? Then left it all?
Do the allies of countries in the world have the same technology level as the 'super' powers? There will always be tech that is not achieved in all entities. If it were true then nuclear tech would be in all countries, and yet it isn't. Even with the internet giving out a chunk of it, some countries don't have the ability to build and run a reactor for power. The U.S. has been part of the leading edge in tech, with a few other countries. The example of China is more from them copying the tech then researching it themselves. This is true for a few other countries. Thanks to greedy corporations, who send the tech to these countries to get it built cheaply, this is occurring more often.
This is the same thing that happens in any political entity. Some have better tech then others, while all are required to support the main ruling body. Parts of the U.S. do not have the tech like Silicon Valley has. For the most part only certain people in the states know how to run the higher tech items. The same can be said of the SL and houses. As each state had SL facilities building that very tech, it was there. Just not accessible to the masses. While it is possible that all units made outside of the TH could not have high tech in them, the caches and even the wars shows that isn't true. ALL houses could not support the high tech during the wars, and had to down grade to the 3025 tech era. So what tech did the houses not have? All could build the high tech weapons during the beginning of the 1st war. And this isn't just from taking the SL facilities in the TH. They could and did build warships. The houses LOST the ability to make things like ER and Pulse weapons. That would mean they already had that tech.
HPG tech might be the one major tech that the houses didn't possess, but I think that isn't the case. Even with plenty of ships, transporting that tech from Terra to the periphery wouldn't be feasible. So they probably had a scattering of centers that could produce those parts. Which given the jump drives, I find it impossible to have kept the tech from the houses no matter how hard Comstar tried.
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Requiem
07/09/21 07:46 PM
1.158.227.122
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You can defend a pass against hundreds of soldiers with a machine gun nest.
There is a massive number of factors involved on both sides to make this workable / an impossibility.
For example, what if the other side has a sniper, who is beyond the range of MG, and is able to pick the MG crew off? Are they in a reinforced bunker? Is there a ay to flank the MG using your mountain squad?
House - Military Regimental Combat Team
Has anyone ever provided an infantry TO&E?
The answer, as far as I have read, is no – thus it is at the discretion of the gamer as to the equipment available.
Most facilities / fortifications have access to heavy weapons – for example – some military facilities still have WW1 machine guns ready to go for fixed weapons emplacements due to their stopping ability.
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suggesting the SLDF had to rebuild does not fit.
Then put in an enquiry with the canon team. – and then they left, how much space should be used for military and how much space should be used for civilian equipment as they are starting a new society / city etc from scratch thus whet will have to bring everything with them – there is no going back for anything you forgot.
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The example of China is more from them copying the tech then researching it themselves.
No – sorry but this isn’t accurate. Have a look at the FC-31and then have a look at their new mag-lev train etc
And China has finally beaten US in the number of patents per year.
And how are those countries who do not have the same level of military technology treated by those that do – as for nukes – how long until that club increases?
Proliferation of Technology – consider differences in standard of living between a wealthy area and that of the middle class – what we have here is the TH and the IS Houses.
As for access to technology – when did each House gain access and how did they gain access is the question that needs clarifying.
As for loosing the ability to manufacture – as stated many times the idea of this actually occurring is a complete load of BS – not ever world as ravaged during all the wars, if even just one facility survived with its technology in tact the entire hypothesis becomes null and void – Politician’s syllogism.
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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ghostrider
07/09/21 10:53 PM
45.51.181.83
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Actually, there have been a few books that gave out the make of infantry regiments in an RCT. They were specific to the scenarios. Mainly what type (foot, mechanized, jump) and weapons they had. They did not go into detail like the Wolf's Dragoons did. And this is not just the 4th war books.
Saying that you have to rearm your military while you have thousands of pieces of equipment just ready to go doesn't fit. But as the topic suggests, was this because some of the commanders stashed away things so they could build a private army? Was it meant to be just incase something else happened?
And as added, once the SLDF officers were going to leave, they would have destroyed those very weapons, as they were worried the IS houses would pursue them into the void. Why would you leave them with such weapons, especially if they were the high tech variants? It isn't like they shipped it all to Terra so those that remained could use them.
Statement: The example of China is more from them copying the tech then researching it themselves.
Response: No – sorry but this isn’t accurate. Have a look at the FC-31and then have a look at their new mag-lev train etc
And China has finally beaten US in the number of patents per year.
Explain how the statement is inaccurate? China did not take the tech that was sent over to be built cheaply and research that in order to advance their knowledge in it? The only part that might be inaccurate is by not saying the U.S. basically slowed down on research of that tech, and China caught up. This is also leaving out the tech that was stolen, but wanted to avoid that part of the discussion.
The fact that factories do not always manufacture the items put into a product is how tech gets lost. Car companies ship in their parts and assemble them in the U.S. The parts are made over seas or in places like Mexico. Razor Blades would make a good example here as years ago, only one manufacturer actually made the blades for all those companies that sold them. No, razor blades are not high tech, but this is a prime example of how it could be lost.
As a side note, anyone trying to remove the tech from someone else would destroy any factory that produces it as soon as they can in a conflict. No ICBMs without the guidance equipment concept.
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Requiem
07/10/21 02:44 AM
1.158.227.122
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The make of infantry regiment (Foot, mechanized, jump) does not equate to its TO&E …whilst in the field or what is maintained within their armoury or what they may have within their Drop-ships.
This is just hyperbole …
As stated before – what is available within the Technical Readouts, has the possibility of being available.
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have thousands of pieces of equipment just ready to go doesn't fit.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_equipment_of_the_United_States_Army
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_equipment_of_the_United_States_Army_during_World_War_II
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_weapons_of_the_United_States_Marine_Corps
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_World_War_II_weapons_of_the_United_States
how does anyone know what each combat unit has available and especially when they are located at a dedicated military facility?
The Big question, however, is … that would answer this question is this – If you belong to an RCT and your unit is trained to for planetary invasions and there is no way of knowing which weapon would be appropriate for the world you are to be assigned to assault - there is no one weapon that works when you are infantry – Thus is it easy to suggest that a RCT has multiple weapon systems than can be drawn upon from the armoury that can then be utilized within the environment they will be assigned to …?
For me YES it is highly likely that here will be massive amount of ordinance within the armoury so that the RCT has been assigned with the best weapons for the job they will be assigned to.
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Why would you leave them
By the end of the Amaris civil war - 95% of the military is DEAD – as well as the ships they were on – so where are the records of these bases and where is someone alive that can assist in finding them – this is the same scenario as saying that all the information has been destroyed within the IS with regards to certain technology …
China - Undertake research into Shenzhen China … for example …
https://www.abc.net.au/foreign/clash-of-the-titans/13422432
https://www.abc.net.au/foreign/clash-of-the-titans---part-ii/13435186
Manufacturing – Overseas Parts – the issue is one of an economic not technological issue …
Understand the globalization affect impacts upon supply chain management.
This is why there is a massive problem when considering modern economics theory within the Game – the idea that Houses would virtually abandon certain worlds economically, technologically and socially is a complete error within the game – for a realm to become truly economically and technologically advanced – att their worlds must be advanced at the same time. The idea that it is the individual worlds responsibility is a massive error within the game.
However, this is not surprising as the game didn’t bring in experts to assist in its development with regards to certain issues when they should have as far as I can see.
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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ghostrider
07/10/21 01:30 PM
45.51.181.83
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Having reserves of equipment, and having to rebuild an army while having those reserves, but not touching them is the issue. Not sure why this is so difficult to understand. The reserves is there so you can rebuild without many issues. But the SL ignored the caches to rebuild the army with. This does not make sense. What good are the reserves if they aren't used for the very reason they are there? Being outdated doesn't mean they can't be used. Upgrade them, or replace them as you can, but a massive rebuilding program doesn't fit. Then leaving the equipment when you are supposedly leaving the IS forever. And at the time, this was the idea.
You use the weapon you are assigned. If they hand you a simple rifle, then that is what you use. If you are a APC driver, then you drive an APC. If lucky(unlucky) then you might replace a driver in another vehicle. But you are not going to be moved over to a laser infantry just because.
Or do you think that the enemy will pause a battle in order for you to get different equipment and train with it, so you can switch the weapon type you use?
And the assumption of your response makes me think that you have access to the armory on a different world at a moments notice. The military trains you with the weapon you are going to use. They do not just say 'hey. We need you to use this weapon. One you don't have months of training with.' That is left to when a pilot/driver/crew dies but a machine still works. For infantry, you are still a rifle infantry, with some heavy support weapons. You do not move to missile trooper. Circumstances do allow a temporary move, such as a rifle infantry being used to snipe when the opportunity comes, but you are not issued the sniper get up. You use what you are assigned as you are normally in the field. This does not preclude taking a sniper rifle from a dead soldier and using it, but you are still expected to use your rifle.
Do you really understand the military? The bases around the IS were not forgotten, as there were office personnel that had the data to where the bases were at, as well as personnel that were stationed at those bases. Part of waiting before hitting the TH was reorganizing who was stationed at what base. Camelot command was not forgotten in the Amaris war. It was left to die when the SLDF left. So even the most secret bases were still staffed. Really not sure why this has to be said.
Manufacturing – Overseas Parts – the issue is one of an economic not technological issue …
Where is the real comprehension here? The parts being made in one location means that if that facility is destroyed, then you can not make more units after your reserves run out. Example. The circuit boards for the cars computer is made in one location. That location is destroyed. The assembly plant in another country can NOT make the circuit boards. Again. SImple logic. In this case, you could try and get the boards from another company, but when it comes to more specific tech, it isn't that simple, nor is it something that you want others to know. Building a nuclear power plant is not something you want other countries to know. So you hire out to build and maintain it for them. If they want the plant, then they agree. That is not saying they are not trying to figure out how to do it themselves, but they rely on you until they do. If they never figure it out, and your company is removed, then they can not do much with the plant when it starts malfunctioning.
I see colonization is not a strong point for you... You can not raise all your colonies, hell, even cities in your country to the same level. That is like saying you can mine iron everywhere, so all cities have to have smelters. Gold is not found or mined everywhere, but your example suggests it is. Same with agriculture. Some plants do NOT grow outside of certain environments without MAJOR growing facilities. It is much easier to import items from elsewhere. And no matter what you think, a newly colonized world will NOT support every type of necessity being made there. Even one that is starting to thrive. Population is required for almost everything, as automation is not smart if the place is not secured.
There is some very good reasons why to abandon worlds. The most obvious is nuclear fall out. But asteroid collisions comes up towards the top as the air becomes a sun block. Not being able to support it is another big reason to abandon it. When talking of needing jumpships to reach it, this becomes even more important.
Being untenable comes to mind. Do you leave your people to become hostages because you can't protect them?
Some worlds are too important to just leave, which makes them ideal for the enemy to exploit.
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Requiem
07/10/21 06:46 PM
1.158.227.122
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In the far future Infantry need once more to be divided into Light and Heavy infantry
Light Infantry – my opinion
Equipment reserves by their very nature are there to be utilized – currently an infantry rifle squad should be composed of – squad leader, marksman, light machine gunner & assistant, grenadier, two antiarmor specialists, four rifleman – total 11.
In this age infantry require anti-armour, where …
Modern tactics suggest – shooting effectively at CQB distance (hand-to-hand to 100 meters) – head shots out to 100 meters, body at up to 350 meters – combat accuracy therefore at 250-350 meters given current infantryman capabilities.
In an age when infantry is now routinely subjected to the Battle-Mech weapons and tactics need to adapt to these new current circumstances. Thus they must be trained and provides with weapons to survive!
Leader
Updated Marksman.
Updated Machine gun & assistant – or a variant there of.
Grenadier - Explosives expert.
Two-four anti-armour and mech
Four riflemen
Total now 11-13
Heavy Infantry
Originally such units were trained to mount frontal assaults and/or anchor defensive centre.
WW2 long range desert vehicles were utilized – what we can see now is progression of this idea to now – so in the far future it can be considered highly likely they have been provided with an upgrade.
Modern warfare would suggest these units are assigned with “Squad Mobility Equipment Transport Vehicles” into a tactical formation (consider the polaris MRZR X) that is expected to carry a 105mm to 120mm or something similar.
Thus the clans may have their Elementals but in all reality the IS should have small very fast vehicles that carry heavy support weapons that are designed to inflict damage to aerospace fighter / armour / and even a Mech.
ie. these are the new infantry cavalry units returned to battlefield once more.
So in reality they should be somewhat evenly matched in weapons – armour may be slightly different – though the Elementals Jump the se vehicles will have the edge with regards to speed and may also have the edge with regards to weapons range depending upon weapon conferment.
Reserves https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Army_Reserve
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You use the weapon you are assigned.
Really? – then why have a Military Acquisition and Procurement division? and if specialist weapons are required for different environmental conditions then not updating causes nothing but problems.
Vietnam – AK Vs M16 – AK you can drop in mud and keeps on going – original M16 – stoppages / jams- reliability problems – magazine feed lips bent – corrosion problems – due to harsh environments - so the army did what M16A1 - 1964?
So – what is in the armoury?
Quote:
you have access to the armoury on a different world at a moments notice.
Really? – Yes, you do, it is called a Dropship Cargo Bay! Something a simple shuttle craft cannot provide!
Also the military does NOT just train you on the weapon you are going to use – It should train the infantryman on ALL the weapons that may be available to them – US basic included M4, M240, M249 at the minimum – assigned to stryker / Bradley – landmine, M203 grenade launcher, various machine Guns – get assigned to the drop-shorts – mortar – cannon etc Missile training …. Etc.
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Do you really understand the military?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_building
then there are specialist issues for the Battletech era than need to be considered eg. Castle Brian – massive defensive fortress …
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parts being made in one location means that if that facility is destroyed, then you can not make more units after your reserves run out.
Really? No what this means is that you just swap to a new manufacturer after to provide them with product specifics.
Circuit Boards – are NOT specific to just one manufacturer consider researching PCBs (Printed Circuit Boards) with regards to latest industrial sourcing trends. https://www.ttnews.com/articles/chips-shortage-hits-global-automakers
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I see colonization is not a strong point for you... You can not raise all your colonies, hell, even cities in your country to the same level.
Really? … sorry but this is not an accurate statement … consider the world powers pre WW2 to now – India, China, Japan, Germany, South Korea etc. … also consider Africa now with assistance from China.
After 50 to 100 years of continued slow development how many countries technological development have increased leaps and bounds from next to nil – the issue is not to think short term 5 years, the issue is to think long term 50 to 100 years of continued development …. Star League 200 years – how far can you improve worlds with a continued plan of economic development when taking a long-term approach? Again have a look at what Globalization is accomplishing in many countries – increasing education, increasing wages, increasing wealth-creation, access to new technologies, new medicine – leading to export led growth - and then consider the knock on effects that these organisations have on the local communities – the principle is also relevant when expanded upon different worlds …
Also strong economy can equate to a large well equipped military – US WW2 – China Now ! – also if you have a massive economy spread over 300 worlds the idea that it can be sabotaged by another power becomes extremely difficult – also military the ability to manufacture a massive well educated and equipped regular and reserve military force becomes a reality – thus making any invasion force think twice as to invade will require a massive single fleet just to establish the initial LZ - so the security of the realm becomes greater with a well developed economy spread over all the worlds within the realm!
Some colonies may fail – this is just natural - the duty of the government is to ensure life is maintained – security / rescue teams transport to safey.
There is also the opposite those that thrive and grow and become valuable – negative waves / positive waves …
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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ghostrider
07/11/21 04:32 AM
45.51.181.83
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The problem with the infantry being accurate to 100 meters is most infantry can't shoot that far in the game. 60 meters is the game max for rifle infantry. The best guess on this is they were keeping it simple. They seemed to have kept the same armor rating for people as they did machines.
To be fair, vehicle machine guns affect all types of armor, so the game actually has that concept covered. This is normal APCs. There are others that have much better weapons on them, such as the Bulldog and Maxim transports.
The issue is getting them. The idea is that you do not have access to everything you want.
And a side note, the SL infantry did have their Mauser 960 laser rifle as a standard arm, though the game doesn't seem to recognize that. 2750 TRO states it was the standard weapon for them.
The game does not deal with infantry using anything but what they are designated with. So you use a rifle if you are a rifle infantry. Laser for laser...
Most militaries frown to forbidding using enemy weapons. This is kind of stupid in one way as the enemy weapons are more likely to have ammo that it uses on the next guy, and the guy after that. But I can see where troops that are used to the sounds rifles make, might mistake you for an enemy.
I seriously doubt an infantry unit will be carrying a dropship around with them on a mission. Returning to the dropship means you have either succeeded in the mission or failed. Changing out gear isn't done in the game. Real life is a different story.
Also, Dropships do have a limited weight/space for bringing things along. Unless you are full assault, it isn't likely to be full, as most missions will try to return with spoils of war, such as parts or a full vehicle or two. Food, water, meds and such will be stocked, even if you are going to a food producing world.
Most of what is in the response makes me think you believe everything is in perfect condition on all things. The game is set up that you are unlikely to be assaulting a perfect Castle. If you were, then it would probably not need mechs guarding it. They would be more useful hitting your base. The game might have a fortified mansion over any castle.
Still thinking that all companies have the secrets to every other company? The generic circuit board for say a cd player is common enough to have most manufacturers fit your player. The circuit board for say the engine regulator on a specific fusion engine is highly unlikely. They are custom to the engine, One might run the temperature, while having some control over the fuel flow. The shape and size varies as well. Most companies would tell you just toss that crap and buy their product. Trying to retrofit someone else's product is not worth their time.
Despite what you might think, you are not going to have rocket scientists working on a farm. You are going to have spots that the population will never reach the level of the population in other cities. And this isn't even getting into the resources in/near a city that will decide what they will do. A mining town will probably not have a bunch of quantum physists in it.
Physical limitations will prevent this as well. A desert area is going to be more worried about drinking water then a fresh water lake town.
Industries have the same effect.
You want reality? Look at the big cities in the U.S. sections of town will never reach other sections of town. Greed and discrimination will always make sure of that.
For someone that loves to push psy ops on the clans, you miss the fact that you can use that to great effect even if your people have a great economy. And doing a few things, like making sure you can't get enough concrete in order to rebuild damage helps this along. A few forest fires to limit the lumber in an area. Make it look like someone on world is trying to corner the market. Which there probably is, so that isn't hard. And you also seem to set the enemy to not having anything other then some clubs to attack with. For the game's view, even your supposed allies are trying to keep you under their thumbs. Few leaders will be there to assist the greater population, but most of the time, they are removed by any means necessary. Assassination, or smear campaign.
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Requiem
07/11/21 08:35 AM
1.158.227.122
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Problem with Infantry, by keeping it simple …
- They cannot shoot that far.
- Locked into a-very-small number of tropes.
Therefore, infantry MUST be updated!
Bringing in Toads without an update of rules just created a game that is no longer worth considering!
This is why I have created my own alternate rules - suggest that everyone else do the same. If the game does not recognise the need for a change it is the responsibility of player to make these changes.
Infantry – Dropship
Really? Then why Create as the primary infantry transport …
Fortress – 12 Platoons, 36 Heavy Vehicles, 1,425 tons cargo
Tactics 101 dropships make excellent fortifications – command and control – logistics – MASH etc. - as required whist moving across the globe …
Returning to the drop-ship in mission means you require resupply - rearmament – reinforcement – access to MASH unit –
https://ahec.armywarcollege.edu/trail/Vi...0Support%20Base,forces%20during%20the%20Vietnam%20War.
https://military.wikia.org/wiki/List_of_ISAF_installations_in_Afghanistan
Primary bases – should have Drop-ships attached – operating as regional command posts.
Quote:
The circuit board for say the engine regulator on a specific fusion engine is highly unlikely.
As such knowledge has never been discussed there is no way of actually knowing .
That said in the 3025 era they were still manufacturing and sub parts were never really discussed so once again the game has not provided this detail of information as for retrofitting – in an era where technology has become very scarce retrofitting to keep it going would be standard operating procedure otherwise looking for specific parts would result in the part never been fixed!
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You are going to have spots that the population will never reach
Really? … this once again depends upon local transport – and if that does not work you can walk.
Even within mining town there is a school – October Sky film – True story where son of a miner went on to work at NASA …
Over time physical limitations are removed … again India, China, South Korea etc etc – long term they are now proving their economic might … same within the IS the IS puts in place a long term goal and works towards this goal.
Desert – long term they build a pipe system and no more water problem …
US Cities – have a look at other cities around the world and make a conclusion based on this please.
Psy-ops - yes it is just called marketing / film and entertainment industry / reality TV / biased based news channels.
Forestry / Concrete – how when this is world-wide business with hundreds if not thousands of small companies or even multiple larger companies planet wide on a highly populated world? Is there even one true Monopoly of a product on the Planet now and if so who and what?
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even your supposed allies are trying to keep you under their thumbs
Depends upon the governments internal policies ! also if there is a symbiotic relationship damaging your allies will only end up damaging yourself …
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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ghostrider
07/11/21 12:02 PM
45.51.181.83
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Dropships are too expensive to just leave lying around. They are magnets to enemy fire, such as artillery and such. And far more difficult to just move a few hundred meters on a whim. Infantry will be spread, with some deployments being around worlds. If this part of a true invasion, they might even be getting more troops from other worlds. This is the problem with the vision of plenty. You forget things like having a ship destroyed putting it by itself in the field. Before they nerfed strafe, it was possible for a single strafe to destroy multiple landed dropships.
The Fortress was NOT built as a primary infantry transport. It was built to transport a combined arms battalion, which includes a company of mechs. The Intruder Dropship is mainly infantry.
Having basic education is not the same as having PHD scholars walking around. And economically, a mining town is not going to be as well off as say a spaceport that supplies the entire planet.
The examples of limitations being over come is only because they had no choice. Colonies are not overcrowded. They don't need to spend the money moving a mountain, as they are there for just a few resources.
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ghostrider
07/11/21 03:59 PM
45.51.181.83
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Had to leave before answering this all, so back to it....
Do you know what jury rigging is? It is bypassing things that can not be repaired with patchwork. That means something like a control board is being rerouted so it uses a part not meant to be used in that control. Such things are dangerous to do, such as using a penny in the old fuse boxes.
Another issue that seems to be showing up is the idea that your forces have control over everything. If you have guards at a facility that have rifles, they are not going to be able to tell an attacker to hold off, while they get something better to work it.
Oh what am I saying. You have stated more then a few times, all of your units are in one location, so there wouldn't be guards in any other location. And you think your empire would be thriving. Simple raids on multiple locations at the same time would allow most if not all of them to succeed in destroying things.
For most others, a patrol comes under fire, they can't just simply return to base, exchange out their vehicles and return to the fight. Even when being the attackers, you don't have the option to replace units like that. Part of Strategy is sending in the forces you think will be needed to succeed, while tactics is using those forces to succeed. If you have to send out a unit, and it is heavy LRM in a forested area, you either send them, or don't patrol the area. But as said, you don't send patrols so the enemy controls your every move. Show up with forces in one location, and you send everything after them, while they hit elsewhere. No guards to slow them down either.
Statement:
You are going to have spots that the population will never reach the level of the population in other cities.
Your quote and response.
You are going to have spots that the population will never reach
Really? … this once again depends upon local transport – and if that does not work you can walk.
This is why I say you don't bother reading properly.
Desert – long term they build a pipe system and no more water problem …
I love this one. Have you bothered to even look at desert cities, and non desert cities, in areas like California, Arizona, Nevada and elsewhere? There are more around the world including in India. Water shortages are happening more and more. Too many people taking it from the few spots that provide it. The answer should be building more water purifiers, but that requires money. But even that doesn't stop the issue.
And when building on a desert world, where do you get the water from? Yes. Resources show up in the darnedest places.
Large cities around the world have their well to do areas and their slums. Is this making everyone equal? Is this raising everyone to the same level? This is a sure sign that the well to do, tend to make sure the poor stay that way, as they don't want any more competition. It is greed at its finest.
Assuming yet again? You think every world has an abundance of resources. A world that is pretty barren is not going to have lush forests covering it. A world that did not have organic life that decays into oil, will have lots of fossil fuels. Some worlds will not have the sand to make concrete.
How many places can you mine diamonds? Coal? Iron? Even in worlds with a few billion people, this is not a sure thing. And with a monopoly, you can strangle them. As they have to repair and rebuild, they will increase prices to cover it. After a while, no one can afford the product. And without huge areas with the product, you can make sure that each one is snuffed out. Wood needs time to grow. Not to mention the pollution it creates when burning.
I hate it, but the sad truth is, you get to a certain size, and it becomes easier for others to knock you down.
Most would and do sacrifice something in order to gain great advantages. In business, if I can become president or owner of a company by leaking something, then I can say it hurt me, so it must be someone else that did so. Your beloved Katherine did this very thing.
Trust is hard to come by, but it takes a simple statement or act to throw it all away.
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Requiem
07/11/21 06:39 PM
1.158.227.122
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Queston: have you ever designed a single planetary invasion where a massive regular army is established over the globe – as it should be based upon Socio Industrial Level rating and population + a Battlemech Unit etc. Provide it with everything world out the entire planet – then work out an entire invasion fleet RCTs + Support Conventional forces then run an invasion based upon these permitters – then try to factor in time movement etc range of conventional aircraft - with increased speed etc …
Then spend who knows how much time engaged in this single endeavour … utilizing multiple maps at the same time and having massive battles …
Dropships –
Then why build the Fortress Class? Role Support facility when grounded – why give it a massive artillery if you are never going to use it?
All Operational regional command posts will have a dropship assigned to it as it provides the area commander strategic flexibility during combat operations.
Before they nerfed strafe -
Isn’t this why there is the concept of air superiority is important? This is why mobile Radar stations are important – This is why there should have been SAMs within the game.
Mining Town –
Depending upon its size a mining town can expect to have or will have close by …
PHD MD
Bachelor of Nursing
Bachelor of Engineering (Civil, Mining etc)
Bachelor of Architecture
Bachelor of Geology
Bachelor of Education
Then also consider all the support facilities required to keep the town operational, that will include transport facilities to a smelter and then for local use or for export trade to a spaceport and, likely, in close proximity to one another – thus a combined economy can be considered.
Colonies are there for just a few resources –
Again, this is statement does not consider the type / purpose of the original colony … the original technological level of the original settlers - the length of time it has existed – when did it first come to exist and when is the end date - 3025, 3150 - so there is a good chance the colony may have existed for 500 – 650 years – so, what can any society grow into over this timeframe, given the original size and technology available?
Jerry-rigging - describes a fix that is temporary, done quickly, technically improperly, or without attention to or care for detail. It can also describe shoddy, second-rate workmanship with whatever materials happen to be available.
For Canon 3025 how often would such a process be considered necessary given the story that technology has almost been eliminated and that some Star League Facilities they do not understand how to fix it also where some plants they use Jerry-rigging to keep it operational?
Please go to sarna home page – search jury rigging … I found 32 Results
The idea your forces have control over everything –
Infantry Learn – they adapt – they overcome!
First engagements – wrong weapons the Clan Elements rip into them – however, after action reports, gun cameras, survivors even elemental suits that were brought down and salvaged and returned for analysis … given time new directives are issued based upon intelligence gathered regarding the enemy.
Therefore, given time a work around / solution is discovered, utilized or a new weapon is manufactured to deal specifically with Clan Elementals – New Training and tactics are implemented … the idea of the static infantryman does not exist – then need to be the highly educated in how to survive!
Water –
Have you considered Petra’s water system? 300BC
Rome – free drinking fountains – water engineering – aqueducts etc.
Resources –
Isn’t this why water dropships exist?
Also isn’t this why terraforming was introduced into the game?
Depending upon the ingenuity of the local population water purifiers may not be required at all – again there are more solutions than just technology and throwing money at the problem!
Large cities around the world have their well to do areas and their slums.
And how many of these cities use social programs to reduce “sums” to extinction? We are not in Victoria England – how many countries have reduced poverty and are actively attempting to fix the issue?
Again, this is dependent upon the government that is introduced into the game – DC and CC government would suggest high poverty levels.
However, this does not have to be the case within the Lyran sector …
So again this is on a case by case basis, it is not an absolute, depending upon how the local government interreact with their people.
You could have a Periphery world under an efficient Communis government – that has a system where there is no poverty, no hunger, high education, high equality - if you so decided to create such a society for your team to visit as the specs on most worlds are very limiting.
The idea that greed is everywhere no matter what does not have to be the case, unless this is how you want your game world to be, each individual team / GM must make this decision for themselves.
You think every world has an abundance of resources?
Question – in designing a successful colony – what led to its success?
In designing an unsuccessful colony – what led to its demise and why is it still there if it is slowly deteriorating – and what is the local government doing or do they even know that this colony even exists?
Fossil Fuels in the future – This again is another massive black hole of the game world – consider the massive number of fleets required when considering the vast amount of people that are on most worlds – sorry but no in the far future based upon economics alone fossil fule engines would be nearly extinct or the number of Jump-ships / Dropships within the IS must be increased by a massive factor to keep the fuel going from one world to the next.
Quote:
you get to a certain size, and it becomes easier for others to knock you down.
Except for the fact that this is a neo-feudalism society where a majority of Houses have existed in wealth and power for hundreds of years … and have retained their power even though the majority of individuals within the house from one generation to the next can be considered deranged! And after a while you wonder how they have retained in power so long …
However in my private IS realm if an individual ruler is unfit for the job they are quickly removed for the safety of the realm from the line of succession or life – the majority of houses do have security in place to ensure rules will do their job!
Katherine was a master at playing the game – the problem is that the Canon story did not let her off the leash – in all reality her mother would not have been assassinated it would have been Victor!
Trust – how many have trust in the wrong person?
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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ghostrider
07/12/21 01:28 AM
45.51.181.83
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I have been part of an invasion force, but I did NOT design the world, only to use that knowledge to defeat the world. The GM gave us intel that our spies or recon got ahold of, but that was not the perfect match to everything the enemy had, nor did it say wether the enemy was going to send or receive troops. We also did not have access to every weapons system under the universe to pick from. Our employers sent along units as well, but for the most part, we did not get to see them much.
You picked out what items you loaded onto your dropships, and a base camp was made. Just like the real army does, we were sent out on missions and could not return just because we needed SMGs instead of normal rifles.
The quote to overcome, adapt, is not go back to base to get different equipment but to figure out how to finish your mission with what you have.
The Fortress dropship was used for moving a combined arms battalion, which normally served as an HQ. It was not normally set in harms way, as it was almost impossible to replace. But again, this is from canon, not the universe of magical wishing wells that gave you what ever you wanted. And the dropships is not invulnerable either. The long tom helps to defend, but it does not stop others from using mobile artillery to strike it dead. The mobile artillery is easier to move then the dropship is.
There are SAMs in the game. It is called Missile Launchers. The game does not have missiles that a single one can defeat a dropship or fighter without critical hits, until the capital weapons came about. So you want to argue the game, stick with the actual game mechanics.
Again. the wishing well of plenty. Entire colonies were lucky to have a few skilled doctors. We are not talking worlds that are independent and joining a larger country. We are talking about those that people go out, especially from corporations, that do it as cheaply as they can. Even the great houses do it from time to time. You only have so many you can send, and so many that will go. Skilled doctors have options to leave. Same with most other PHD carrying people.
So the definition says it is not an exact replacement. If you don't know the controls you are working on control other things besides say the door, then it doesn't work right. So building a new system based on that, would mean something else isn't working. For all you know, it controls the thermostat in the freezer upstairs, to avoid supplies going bad as you move cargo thru the door. But I forgot. You have blueprints for everything on a piece of equipment so someone can steal your designs by taking them, instead of having to do the research themselves. And they figure out how to break it completely as well.
All the piping in the world does nothing if there is no water to be had. And purifiers or pulling it out of the air only does so much. The costs is what stops a lot of things from being done. Economics 102.
How much water can even the largest dropship hold? How quickly will say 1000 people go thru that water? Without using it for anything other then drinking, bathing and cooking, it doesn't last long. How quickly can you get another shipment in? Using the same ship, I would think about 2 weeks. Not worrying about a jump charge, but flight to and from the world it gets the water from, and loading it, then to and from the jump point to the world receiving it. This is why I have said the number of ships in the game is far to low. You can NOT support worlds with the suggested numbers given.
There are no cities that have removed their slums without removing the people that live there. This is not raising the level of the city, but forcing people to move elsewhere. That in turn creates another living area that is far below the rest. It would be very nice if this were not the case.
And more countries are sending more into poverty then removing it. The cost of living rises as the rich demand more money. The paychecks of those working does not rise enough to meet the demands. Inflation is the main term for it, but there are others.
This is not saying all poverty is the same. Some are just below the financial level, and not in the slum region. Others, are just stuck in a very horrible situation.
Actually, the LC would want some low income areas so their corporations can use cheap labor to make more money off of their products. Backwater worlds are great for this as they can pay less, and pollute more. The people on the world are less likely to complain as it is normally their main source of income. Life 101.
Again, the questions put forth continue to remove the facts. Some colonies survive that shouldn't due to scamming the wealthy into thinking there is something worth while to it, while other colonies that should have survived were destroyed by the greedy wanting the lands or to remove competition. This does not include the traders that serve those colonies either. Some will blackmail the colonies to pay them or go without supplies.
Missing economics 101 again? Fossil fuels are easier to find and use them paying for fusion engines. The use of them is NOT for star craft, but planetary vehicles. Cars and trucks being the big ones, though equipment like tractors being up there as well. The ICE has not died. Until it does, fossil fuels will be in demand.
Houses within a nation do not just declare or go to war with each other. With that, each house tends to sabotage the others when it can. So instead of a strong nation, you end up with something like the FWL. Can't get much done without a military leader, as a normal civilian leader would be tied up in debates and votes that go no where.
As this topic was canon and where there is a problem between the numbers have come up, outside games have no sway.
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Requiem
07/12/21 05:41 AM
1.158.227.122
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Quote:
Always with the negative waves, Moriarty, always with the negative waves. Oddball, Kelly's Heroes
Overcome - Succeed – defeat an opponent – overpower or overwhelm.
At no time does this mean snatching defeat from the jaws of victory because the CO was too obstinate to adapt – by requisitioning an infield airborne drop of replacement weapons and people …
Overcome – is by whatever it takes – and if this means returning to base to rearm then so be it!
What was the original purpose of the Fortress – could it be the tip of the spear within any planetary invasion?
It was not normally set in harms way – then why does TRO3057 pg 50 state – ideal for establishing and clearing landing zones?
What it is in 3025 is hard to find parts making it difficult and expensive to operate …
There are SAMs in the game. It is called Missile Launchers.
Despite what the game states - What is the range of LRMs and what is the altitude of aerospace fighters – and if operating correctly what would be the true MP of conventional and aerospace craft in the game 20x or 30x or even higher …. Making suppositions within the game to make it easy in turn destroys the aesthetics.
Drs with colonies
Only the most insane would leave port without a full complement of medical personnel … even a corporation would have recognised this fact!
Hy establish a colony without a competent medical team?
How many mechanics over time learnt to jerry-rig to keep the machine going?
if there is no water to be had – Logistics schedule + Negative waves, again.
Quote:
How much water can even the largest dropship hold? How quickly will say 1000 people go thru that water? … You can NOT support worlds with the suggested numbers given … Then a couple of paragraphs down … The ICE has not died. Until it does, fossil fuels will be in demand.
Please replace the word water with fuel ….
Quote:
Can't get much done without a military leader, as a normal civilian leader would be tied up in debates and votes that go no where.
Again hyperbolic … depends on the leader in question Churchill Vs Hitler Vs Stalin Vs Roosevelt Vs Mussolini …. And in game comparison Kartina Steiner Vs Janos Marik
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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ghostrider
07/12/21 12:54 PM
45.51.181.83
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Still believe you can just send out airdrops when ever you want?
The whole idea of missions is to be completed the first time you send out a unit. Most are raids or assaults that need to succeed in a timely manor. Such things are like destroying or saving a bridge so your forces can get over a river. Taking a mountain pass before the enemy reinforces it. Even diversionary strikes to get the enemy to move forces to protect the targets. Going back to base because you don't like the SMGs you have doesn't work. An airdrop (if detected) will alert the enemy something is afoot.
And this also assumes the enemy doesn't have air superiority and that you indeed have the craft to make the run.
It is sad that you left out the part where the Fortress became so rare that it was used in secured locations, and the last parts supplier for the ship shut down. If not for Semier Data Tron experiment of equipping it with smaller engines, the ship would have gone extinct. Look it up in the 3057 TRO for that one.
And read the important words in my statement. NOT NORMALLY PUT IN HARMS WAY. That does not say never.
As stated, most colonies, and this means those starting out, are lucky to have one doctor, much less a full staff.
Also, having one or two people with PHDs does NOT mean the town is at the same level as the ones with universities. Supply levels are a problem as well.
How many mechanics have learned to jury rig things? I think all of them have done so at least once. That does NOT mean the item is working properly or at full capacity. Plugging a vacuum line for a smog set up on a car is NOT fixing it so it works right. Jury rigging is for a temporary fix. Some fixes make things worse in the long run.
Can't comprehend that no water and shipping in water statements go together? You suggest logistics schedule but then ignore the fact that the how much water can 1000 people go thru wasn't showing that schedule? Water does NOT need to be changed to fossil fuels.
Also, ICE/fossil fuels do not need to be oil pumped from the ground. Biofuel can be used as well. So it is easier to make it on world, and cheaper, then using fusion engines. Doesn't mean it is better in the long run.
Name a leader that was not in charge when a war was going on. They were the commander in chief getting things done. Hence a military leader. There has to be someone that can make decisions when the lords or congressmen decide to vote against each other. Military leaders have that option. Most elected leaders are stuck unless there is an emergency, such as a war. This is very true of the more political organizations represented in the congress, the more likely things will get locked up and nothing gets done. For some, it is reasonable, as they require things the others will not let go. Others are pure greed. They want it all, and have the others provide it.
But this thread was started to question the having to rebuild the SLDF when they had all those supplies scattered around the IS, then leaving them in one piece when they left. It was to see if the concept of part of the reason the SLDF was in such dire shape was because they did pull equipment from their lines to scatter it.
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Requiem
07/12/21 04:38 PM
1.158.227.122
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Still believe you can send out airdrops when ever you want?
Dependent upon the conflict, mission, and the objective. – how may times have regular forces provided weapons to partisan forces … England during WW2, airdrops ….
Fortress became so rare ….. if you are in 3025, however if, as stated above, as per the ORIGINAL PURPOSE and time … then no they are not rate, thus they are put in harms way!
Most colonies are lucky to have one doctor, much less a full staff … sorry but I completely and utterly disagree, every necessary colony position must be obtained – contingency backups established – all necessary equipment etc MUST be obtained prior to the go is given.
Playing roulette with a new colony is not the way to create an effective colony!
Having one or two people with PHDs does NOT mean the town is at the same level as ones with universities - what we have learned with C19 is that a degree can be obtained whilst sequestered at home - Computer programs / online lectures can be used as a substitute / alternative.
Also, give the colony 100 years and it may have established a vast University Complex or two ….
Supply levels are a problem as well – unless they have set up a logistics chain prior to establishing the colony.
jury rig things – and sometimes they have been able to improve upon the original design.
What is the volume of water and what is the volume of fuel? If there are not enough jump-ships / drop-ships for water then there is also not enough for fuel!
In an age where technology is scarce - how many have access to plants to create biofuel is on the same scale as that of having a plant to create drinkable water?
Also electricity as a fuel substitute – if established early then ICE and fuel are not required at all ….
Leader, as Commander in Chief during war – hence a military leader? Then I suggest some one look at Franklin Roosevelt’s action at Yalta Conference when he lost WW2 to the Russians … Poland, Hungary, Czechoslovak, Romania, Bulgaria, Albania …
A good civilian leader knows how to stay out the way of their professional generals when it comes to war – they are there to keep the morale up and to establish adequate logistics to keep them in the war …. They are not there to direct battles
SLDF did not have the manpower and in all likelihood did not know all the locations of all the bases a the end of the war with Amaris – 95% destroyed due to having an inept, political appointee such as Kerensky in charge who really didn’t know what he was doing …
Also at the end of the War there was no real drive to rebuild the SLDF … Kerensky also did not have the finances to re-build …..
Also did not want to tip their hand and lead house units to these hidden facilities … as the now battered SLDF did not have the security to stop a house force from coming in and steeling it from under foot ...
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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ghostrider
07/12/21 07:30 PM
45.51.181.83
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Why are you insisting that fuel needs to be imported? You can make it on the world, unless there is no plant life at all. Even then, if there is biomass that is turning into oil or something close, then you can pump and use that. It is proven you want run a car off moonshine. There is no need to import it.
If there is a huge amount of anything, then you are less likely to care about it then if you need it, but don't have many. Putting a single Fortress down to help secure an area you are going to be building a supply compound isn't at dangerous as you want it to sound like. There WILL be other forces on guard duty with the ship. Probably most of what is being grounded at that time. As the invasion goes on, more units will be in the field, leaving the dropship, as well as other defenses to guard the area. Raids can occur, but for the most part, the ship is probably not going to be needed in defense. So the harm's way is less then the patrols will face.
Colonies are gambles all the time. Those creating them are not going to waste a whole lot of money into them, unless they prove to be worthwhile. Sending a full team of doctors into a colony that has even 1000 people isn't going to happen. Maybe when it hits 30,000 they might send in some more. And that would be in ONE city on the world, not all that are there.
Military outposts are different. It seems you are confusing them. Military has the resources for things like medics and such, while most corporations don't have doctors on staff, much less huge supplies they will send to a colony. In the cases where they do, it is normally because they are researching something.
Furious preparations began for the coming Exodus. Damaged ships underwent hectic repairs at many League shipyards, while all available JumpShips produced by commercial manufacturers were bought up. Military bases were stripped of all supplies, families made ready to move and massive amounts of resources bought on the open market, sometimes directly from the House realms themselves. For their part the House Lords, apart from Coordinator Minoru Kurita, were oblivious to these maneuvers and none knew their true purpose.[2]
This is under the Exodus of the SLDF. Notice the part where they stripped all supplies, and how they bought jumpships on the open market. This runs counter to finding bases full of equipment, and your statement of Kerensky not having the funds to do anything. Kerensky still ran the SLDF.
Concerned at leaving Hayes and her sizable SLDF forces without direction and recalling Jerome Blake's pleas for assistance in the reconstruction of the Hegemony, Kerensky brokered a deal whereby Hayes could remain but had to obey Blake and the Ministry of Communications as the last vestige of the Star League, hidden from the Great Houses.
as the now battered SLDF did not have the security to stop a house force from coming in and steeling it from under foot ...
Seems like Comstar DID have the forces to prevent some theft. The issue is theft of what? Except for what Hayes would have set up, all supplies were stripped from bases around the IS BEFORE Kerensky left.
Training soldiers would have been happening during the Reunification war, and even during the Amaris war. That would not be anywhere near what would be lost, but even you stated they rebuilt before leaving. They left with 80% of the SLDF, which in one thread, you brought up some numbers. Where they made up? Or based on data for the canon game?
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Requiem
07/13/21 04:28 AM
1.158.227.122
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When considering that all other industries throughout the Inner Sphere have been damaged to a vast extent – what makes the fuel industry the sole industry to have survived to enable mass production?
This is dependent upon each world’s availability to technology - some may be able to make vast quantities others must import to be sustainable …
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Those creating them are not going to waste a whole lot of money into them
Sorry but no … colonies, even a small one, will involve vast amounts of money – manpower – willpower – and hope for the future – all individual members are required – this includes Doctors and a complete suite of medical professionals, engineers ….. mechanics etc.
Even with a colony of 1,000 there most definitely will be a Doctor. Exploratory colony, for example, is an investment in the future in which professions (whose individual worth is high) to determine the long term viability …
Ships -
End of Civil War 30 Sept 2779
Operation Exodus – plans began 14 Feb 2784
8 July – Exodus Order
2 Oct – New Samarkland
5 Oct – Leaving the system
Thus we are expected to believe that between this VERY short period of thine - 15Feb and 7 July the SLDF were able to acquire the totality of logistics required to feed a vast number of people upon what should be called the voyage of the dammed then commence a new colony with all the necessary equipment … and we are also expected to believe that there was a vast amount of space to bring with them a vast number of military equipment including Mechs and Atomic weapons …
And all of this was completed in secret so that no intelligence agency belonging to any of the Houses would even notice!
Oh Please! Suspending reality this far is crossing the line over a vast distance – The original Tarzan makes more sense that what we have here!
Kerensky may run the SLDF – however it is the Govt department of Treasury and Finance that holds the Money!!!!
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Star_League#Department_of_Revenue – Tax to collect the money and yet who spends the money?
Kerensky should have been cut off from all finances from day 1 – thus making it imperative to get the war over and done with as fast as possible rather than sitting out side for how many years twiddling his thumbs!
Of the original 100% of the SLDF Kerensky started with 95% of all forces were destroyed – thus 5% survived of this 5% - 80% of this final 5% departed with Kerensky – 20% of this 5% staked with Blake or one of the Houses! That is where 5% survived 4% went with Kerensky and 1% remained in the IS.
Thus demonstrating that Kerensky really did not know what he was doing as the final battle must have been a very close run battle right down to the last day where it was a coin toss as who would win / loose …
The PR team Kerensky maintained must have been masters at their trade to make it look that Kerensky was half way decent …
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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MigneeSnoge
07/13/21 05:50 AM
46.242.15.219
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In the buzz!
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ghostrider
07/13/21 11:43 AM
45.51.181.83
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If you have the ability to cook food, you have the ability to make fuel for ICE. It is as simple as that. As I said before, moonshine can run ICE. It doesn't take high tech, such as the fusion engines need. Just like growing food. You don't need an farm mech or huge combine in order to do so. Mass producing huge amounts require some tech, as you are not talking a couple of gallons, but thousands to millions.
There will be a medic, but it may not be a full doctor. Even though they are sci fi, the movies are correct that a lot of colonies will not have even adequate medical staff. This is not true for all, but a large amount of them will be lacking, possibly for a long time after they are started.
More then a few colonies started out as simple outposts. They grew as the workers imported family, and others came to fill in other roles, or just got stranded in their travels. This would be true even in space.
To start a colony, it doesn't require plopping down a full steel industry, nor does it take having a space port. Simply booking passage on a jumpship with a single shuttle, and the shuttle does not even have to stay. Unload and it heads back.
Granted, this means having drinking water and food available, so there is some conditions for the small group start. Corporations are less likely to want families at their work site, as it means more money would be spend. Which they will normally refuse, yet they can't stop the illegal migration to their work sites. They are not going to arrest the people, and ship them back to the courts to jail them. They just up the prices of what they send to any work site, and punish the workers that way.
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Requiem
07/13/21 04:44 PM
1.158.227.122
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Yes a vehicle can run on Moonshine – that said – running on high potency hooch performance levels vary – depending upon a minimum proof level (% of alcohol) – issues include loss of power can lose 30% or more of its horsepower – leaks – rust – corrosion – ie it can damage the engine – has the engine been adjusted to account for differing combustion property - and below 40F / 4C degrees and it’s a challenge to start the vehicle because it does not burn as quickly as gasoline … can any military forces consider this viable long term?
For a military force using such a fuel source what should the limitations be added to the unit using such a fuel source?
Reduced MP – inability to tow – inability to move over rough terrain …
Increased breakdowns …
On worlds where temperature decreases to low levels – issues with mobility – unbale to even start …
Then there is the issue what happens on a world where they have to import their food?
Then there is the issue that this is a science fiction story and the protagonists have to make Hooch to run their vehicles???? Really?
Medic? …. Any major issue and your population is going to be dead - don’t worry the medic is here for all the minor issues! Sorry but any sane and serious colony is going to include a complete medical team.
Movies are just that … established for entertainment … reality is far different!
Being dropped off by a shuttle is not an outpost / colony it is being marooned.
Corporations … HR want their workers happy – increased production! Plus, how long are they out there before their rotation back to the world?
It makes for better PR if the company considers humanitarian issues rather than just the bottom-line profit initiative.
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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ghostrider
07/13/21 05:11 PM
45.51.181.83
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Who said anything about the military using moonshine? There are things you can add do the fuel to make it run better, that doesn't require extremely costly things.
How did the military use ICE before and during the SL? More things ran with ICE then fusion. Even military vehicles. Mechs were the main things that almost required fusion, and even then, that was not always needed.
The end result here is that using fossil fuels, or anything an ICE will run on, is easier and cheaper to produce then equipping everything with fusion.
Might need to recheck the game rules on ICE. Engines run normally on fossil fuels. The Neptune sub in TRO 3026 shows that other fuel sources can be used, and it does say it degrades performance when using the alt fuel. Not sure why military vehicles are stuck in your mind, as the colony represents so much more then military units. Yes, it is cleaner to run a fusion plant to power everything you can, but it costs far to much in the beginning. Civilian vehicles, including work trucks and semis run on fossil fuel or alternatives. It would cost far to much to run them all on their own fusion engines. Even electric motors would not cover it, even if the game actually dealt with it. Range and power is an issue.
Octane boosters, and even gas at the pumps have things added into them to increase their potency. It is much easier to ship 1000 cases of booster, then to send the fuel with it, when it can be made at the site.
The low temperature affects ALL mechanical units, not just fueled ones. What do they do right now with units in the arctic/antarctic? Oh yeah. Block heaters and even some form of heat to keep the fuel liquid. Alcohol doesn't freeze. It is why it is used in anitfreeze.
Importing food has it's own challenges. But where does it say that there isn't any plants or even algae on the world? Most are poisonous to human life, but can be refined into fuel.
How many doctors came over on the Mayflower to establish colonies in the U.S.? Or any other colony in human history? Even outposts for the great empires of earth? They were sent after the colony was up and running.
How do you think a lot of the colonies were formed when the first exodus from Terra was done? People were fleeing from the Terran Alliance, and to be left alone, you did NOT advertise where you were going. There may have been a few traders that did keep in contact, but for the most part, you took what you could and made do. You did NOT just land a dropship and use it for the beginning of the base, for the most part.
HR wants happy workers. Executive boards and stock holders wants lots of money. Guess who wins when the workers are out of contact with everyone else.
A colony in space is far more dangerous then just forming a new city on an established world. And this is stay the colony is established to form a new world, not just some outpost to gather resources.
Everyone that joins up to do so, knows the risks. Well how do you send news of a bad condition if only the company knows you are even there? And worse, most companies will destroy any trying to get into their area.
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Requiem
07/14/21 12:00 AM
1.158.227.122
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Quote:
Who said anything about the military using moonshine?
As noted above - If you have the ability to cook food, you have the ability to make fuel for ICE.
The issue with ICE is that over time they (all chemical fuel) should become obsolete and thought of as a museum piece. In all reality a more advanced ‘electric engine’ should become the standard engine within the game. All fuel can therefore be sourced through any electric generation system.
Bringing in any chemical fuel to the game will also bring in massive complications to the game – range, velocity, torque etc also the issue of storage – refuelling stations etc.
Logistics and accountancy will take over the game …
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How do you think a lot of the colonies were formed when the first exodus from Terra was done?
There was a forum established by me that went through this topic in detail.
In fleeing the Terran Alliance where did you get the ships from?
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Guess who wins when the workers are out of contact with everyone else.
The Union! – coming from an organization with 95% signed up.
Human Resource Management has found that if you produce a happy workforce productivity increases – and, as a consequence profit increases as people become invested in what they are working on and they are more likely to make suggestions as how to improve the product – thus in making a better product – more profit!
When signing up for a colony within the game you usually receive a report from the explorers who found the planet – thus you have an idea of what you are walking into!
Claim jumping in space – this is why there is a military police force …. And a central government office where claims are maintained …
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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ghostrider
07/14/21 01:11 AM
45.51.181.83
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Do you understand what ICEs run off of?
This statement: The issue with ICE is that over time they (all chemical fuel) should become obsolete and thought of as a museum piece.
This suggests you don't.
And even worse, the Fuel Cell engine is just that. Using things other then oil/gas as a fuel source. The fuel cell is the closest thing to an electric motor the game uses.
Transmissions help give a vehicle the torque, power, speed and fuel millage needed. It is not perfect however. But the game already has this figured out with the speed/tonnage of unit. Overweight, and it drops the movement points of the vehicle. Land vehicles that is. Vtols and fixed wings are a little different.
Most of those leaving Terran space rented room aboard ships. Some jumped ships as they were leaving. A few large groups that could afford them, bought them. Then again more then a few colonies started out as people exploring worlds for others, and just stayed.
Your analysis for colonies had a few parts that left out facts on how things work. That was said in that forum.
The union can NOT do much if they can't be contacted, or even worse, working for the company. They will worry about those people that are in the publics eye, and leave the fight for those that everyone forgot alone. They have to pick which battles to fight, as they all can not win.
For some companies, the unions are put down by the governments. If they need titanium, or even normal iron, they will look the other way in order to get it. Even food will have most ignoring some issues. Without contact, prove otherwise.
It is true that you have some information, as long as whoever sent the scouts tells you this. But even with that, the scouts did NOT explore the whole world, nor did they find every last thing on it. And with this, if the explorer themselves are hosting the colony, they may well have left out things just to get people to go. OOOOOPS! Did I forget to mention the large tiger looking animals that attack any that go outside of this area. Just stay near the village and your fine.
And some things are seasonal, or you may have caught the best season to do the exploring. Others were formed from people just running, and got stuck on a world.
So where is the local claims office to log a deed to a location on a world? 3 months in space, jumping back to the Terran Government? And you think they will have the correct data or not allow someone else to claim the prize? Again, if they need things there, or even just get paid well, you don't have a chance to even attempt to enforce a claim. Some companies today are claiming spots on the moon and beyond, even though we can't reach it. Do you think that won't happen once you start getting to other systems? Especially when valuable resources are found?
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Requiem
07/14/21 09:41 AM
1.158.227.122
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Understand in an Electric Vehicle there is no combustion engine, fuel tank, or fuel pumps …
https://www.ubs.com/global/en/collection...-transport.html
As predicted by UBS Global … 2025 – 20% of all new cars globally will be electric, 40% by 2030, and by 2040 virtually every new car sold globally will be electric …
Thus how long after 2040 will all ICE become obsolete?
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Most of those leaving Terran space rented room aboard ships.
Sorry but no …. As stated there need to be a new class of ship for the entire exodus premise to be considered viable.
Unions – and how does management stay in contact?
When building a colony contingencies mut be built in …
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So where is the local claims office to log a deed to a location on a world?
It is under come the planets historical information … explorers went out into the void and researched planets then returned to Terra … colonists would then buy the info from the explorers and the planet and be provided a claim form … they would then leave Terra and take up residence on their new world …
Caveat Emptor – let the buyer beware!
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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ghostrider
07/14/21 12:30 PM
45.51.181.83
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Nice wishful thinking by the UBS Global you quoted. For that to happen around the globe, there will have to be electric lines scattered around the poor countries in remote areas. This still isn't the case in the U.S.
And who pays for these lines to be put in? Electric companies are having fits spending money on maintaining the lines they have.
Also, there are more then a few people that will NOT give up their gas cars.
Sorry but no …. As stated there need to be a new class of ship for the entire exodus premise to be considered viable.
That statement shows a lack of real understanding. Colonists are not going to have the money to buy most dropships, much less jumpships to colonize the stars. Corporations were not as concerned about making colonies as you might believe. They might sponsor some, but they would not be paying for even half of it, much less all of it. They might agree to provide transportation services as well as trading but lock the colonists into contracts. That means they control communications as well. Especially with the Terran Alliance pull back, jumpships were the prime ways of sending messages. The HPG network was only starting to grow with the colonies. They were not in place on a lot of worlds until much later.
Buy the planet? From whom? They were not owned, but claimed. Otherwise they would have been part of the Terran Alliance still. I seriously think the periphery had any claims on file on Terra. People banded together to form NAPs, and then went from there. Most NAPs were not planned as people were colonizing. They came about when things like Pirates or the Terran Alliance started acting up. Most weapons brought with colonists were more for dealing with wild animals then warfare.
Just like colonizing on the Earth in the past, the future runs about the same way. Without some sort of alien beings, you don't pack a colony ship with ICBMs and 1000 pound bombs. Hell, most didn't even pack aircraft to even use an air dropped bomb.
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Requiem
07/14/21 04:53 PM
1.158.227.122
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Recharging Stations – suggest you read current media releases as well as individual vehicle manufacturers plans for manufacturing mass recharging stations such as Tesla … they used it for marketing to boost pre manufacture sales - tesla sold the majority of their vehicles online – they did not need showrooms ….
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/03/31/us-ev-ch...cture-plan.html
Once large vehicle manufacturers change the way they do business how long will it take for smaller countries to be pressured into converting over by purchasing it from the lager countries?
In the game world what this would mean is that they can use their portable generator to not only power all their energy weapons – they can also use it to power all their vehicles – increasing range as you do not have to worry about tracking a fuel vehicle – also electric engines are cleaner to work on as a great deal of petrochemical lubricants are no longer required.
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Colonists are not going to have the money to buy most dropships, much less jumpships to colonize the stars.
If any viable colony is required – they will have no choice but to – this is the price of establishing a colony. Large corporations will exist just to transfer all colonists – all their equipment – all their animals – all their seeds etc to the new worlds …. And making massive profits …
Anything else and the premise of mass colonisation falls off a cliff!
Consider the Alliance Grand Survey results - https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Alliance_Grand_Survey
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Buy the planet? From whom? They were not owned
Yes they were … the explores who provided the survey reports claimed them for their company … if the colonists wanted that world they would have to pay.
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Colonization_Procedure_Referendum
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Just like colonizing on the Earth in the past, the future runs about the same way.
Errr … colonization during earth’s past was a very bloody affair in which military as invariably sent - as for the local population …..
You may not pack a nuclear warheads, but you will pack massive amounts of explosives – clearing the land (civil engineering) + commencing and maintaining mining operations … and yes you would pack an aircraft of some sort – reconnaissance of your new home!
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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ghostrider
07/14/21 05:39 PM
45.51.181.83
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You believe that the auto manufacturers will stop making gas vehicles? They will continue to make them no matter what. They would shift jobs to those very countries that would not be able to set up electric.
Now for game purposes, the electric cars was not introduced as it was tech beyond the 80s.
And honestly, it is a smart idea on not having everything run off electric. Knock out the main power generators, and you basically cripple the worlds economy. Yes, there will be smaller generators to power specific communities, but recharging civilian vehicles would be banned. Even military vehicles might have issues.
And last I knew of, electric cars are not immune to EMPs.
I would also think PPCs would cause major issues to any chargers.
Do you understand the concept of not buying this hugely expensive thing like a dropship or jumpship when going on a one way trip?
This statement says you don't understand this: they will have no choice but to – this is the price of establishing a colony.
It is far cheaper to pay a few hundred thousand bucks then several million on just a dropship. Big business will create nexus points, but unless they need specific resources, will not be sponsoring a lot of colonies. Those looking for a life away from their current governments, tend to be the ones to found most colonies. Even those that are light years from 'home'.
Did you think this through? You may not pack a nuclear warheads, but you will pack massive amounts of explosives
Where it is true that it would be far easier to use TNT to remove items, do you really think the government is going to allow you to take potential weapons like that with you? You will be outside of their control, subject to being more likely to revolt, as you have the means to fight back.
No. You will not buy an aircraft to recon your new home. It is far cheaper to do it by walking or using one of the few land vehicles you brought with you. You will buy what items you feel are needed, as money would be limited to most colonists. A couple of jeeps with some fuel, and without the weapons package is most likely to be what you have. Food, tools, heating oil, and things like that. Basic survival. Once you get established then the heavier items would be sent, not before. The one exception is mining companies. But then the dropship would be owned by the company and all vehicle would stay on that dropship when not in use.
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Requiem
07/15/21 01:54 AM
1.158.227.122
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Quote:
You believe that the auto manufacturers will stop making gas vehicles? They will continue to make them no matter what.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phase-out_of_fossil_fuel_vehicles
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for game purposes, the electric cars was not introduced as it was tech beyond the 80s.
As the world recognises the importance of electric it is a wonder why new construction rules have yet to be introduced … how far has technology progressed by 3150?
EMP – Proof
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ywNpMkpt34
EMP – Electric and hybrid
Studies are still out on this topic – thus unknown - though if you base includes a built-in faraday cage there is a good chance they will survive. Also discussing vehicles 1000 years into the future so have the Clans / WOB / Comstar produced an electric vehicle that is EMP resistant?
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Do you understand the concept of not buying this hugely expensive thing like a dropship or jumpship when going on a one way trip?
Ever considered renting - transport U-trailer to Dropship?
Building is a massive trillion Bill exercise thus and corporation than can affray costs will be able to amass vast sums of monetary wealth especially if they are also attached to Jump-ships transport company – all in one service …. The government would find this very acceptable.
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do you really think the government is going to allow you to take potential weapons like that with you?
Right now permits allow individuals to purchase explosives for farms, demolition, mining etc … plus how many weapons are restricted currently? And in the future how many arms dealers will be situated at point outside governments control to sell your newly liberated colony who knows what … if you have the money and the contacts then an appointment can be arranged …
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No. You will not buy an aircraft to recon
And yet how many stations that have a vast area have aircraft / VTOL - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14YkfFt6bxY
Sorry but small VTOL craft are NOT that expensive at all …
Please remember the exodus started in the 24th Century … and not in 1700’s …. Availability to efficient and inexpensive technology should be available as well as second-hand vehicles …
Also if your colony has issues with manufacturing a bio fuel source for your vehicles wouldn’t it be safer and more efficient do not have to worry about the manufacture and storage of a bio fuel) to have a generator that can run on water as well as solar power to run all the vehicles, heaters etc?
Question – What are the NASA vehicles going to run on once they get them Mars? And what would be likely choice of vehicle if they discover a way to an earth like planet?
I do believe the answer is electric.
The only chemical engines are still rockets to escape … and yet how long until even that changes?
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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ghostrider
07/15/21 03:10 AM
45.51.181.83
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Guess you don't understand that corporations and groups don't do the same thing? Even a large group will not spend the money to buy a dropship for a one way trip. Corporations will not send a dropship on a one way trip. They will reuse that ship for what ever they need. Even if it does nothing more then run supplies to new colonies. Theirs and others that will pay for it.
As the topic was for canon purposes, if it isn't in the game rules, then it doesn't matter. No matter what, I don't see the use of fuel being removed from vehicles. Cleaner burning fuel should come about in the real future, if the oil companies finally fail to bribe the governments around the world. Part of this is the Fuel Cell Engine.
Cars that are battery operated that can drive thousands of miles on a charge should come about as well.
And how many would see a VTOL worth the cost when you have to buy things like food, water (as you are not sure if all the water on the world is drinkable), clothing, building materials, fuel for electric and heat, medicine, and a whole slew of other things. All this will cost, as well as having limited space on the ship. This is also hoping the ship's crew doesn't just strand you some where and steal all of your stuff. Pocket HPGs are not available. So no. Most colonists will NOT have VTOLs and such with them. Had drones been in the game, then they would be likely.
I will say this again. The game did not have tech in it that wasn't really around in the 80s. The Mars rovers are all electric that are recharged by solar, last I knew of. There are a lot of things that should be in the game but aren't.
Just had a thought. The closest thing they would have like a VTOL would be a Jet Pack. The fuel burning kind like jump infantry have. And even then, it would be one or two. An exoskeleton for moving the heavy crates is possible, but unlikely due to costs.
All atmospheric aircraft burn fuel for propulsion in the game. Even if it is just fusion fuel for thrust. I could even say all vessels do so, but not sure if the fusion propulsion is considered a chemical or not.
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ghostrider
07/16/21 12:43 PM
45.51.181.83
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Anyone else want to discuss the possibility of the SLDF's 'losses' being in part due to 'hiding' units around the known space.
Or that the rebuilding had started making more machines, yet all those caches had stuff in them?
Would the SLDF have left those caches intact when they left?
Ideas include someone 'misplacing' them, so they could make money on them, or have been paid for in advance. Thinking they would go mercenary, and wanted a great start. Another might be a glitch or virus in the quartermasters systems that showed the units being used, yet never left the warehouses.
Another possibility is that the SLDF thought those units were active due to the above glitch and counted them as part of the invasion, yet they were not there.
This is not saying canon is incorrect, just a what if question.
Like the thought that those units in caches were reserve units for the SLDF armies that were left where they were, so they could fit all piloted ones on ships to hit Amaris. As they lost so many people, the machines were not 'needed' and left until they were about to leave, and realized they could not even move them, as they lacked the transports they had before the war.
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