Requiem
07/31/21 01:27 PM
124.184.171.41
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The beginning of the end for Star League ...
“Like all children I believed in the Star League … as Archon I found Lyran space a gilded cage … we have become slaves to the Cameron Court and their edicts …. NO MORE!”
“We will abolish this Treaty one way or another!”
“The situation with the 2650 Edict is a symptom of lager problem - the Star League is dying - and I think it deserves to die!”
“I look on the League with skepticism. I see a society that is in deep denial about itself, we are talking about a society that prides itself on culture, tradition, honor, and integrity”.
“When was the last Commander-in chief of the Star League Defense Force or First Lord you could respect?
Corruption and incompetence at the highest level … We have been willing to accept people who are corrupt, Michael is just the latest in a long line, as the Terran controlled SLDF utilizes stand over tactics like a common thug over all the Great Houses to preserve their power ….”
“First, I am going to demand equality of arms – and then let us see their response …they may attempt to limit our militaries size, but nothing restricts technological advancement.”
“My Generals, no matter what, I want you to initiate new surveys - find me new worlds where we can establish multiple hidden military industrial facilities, research-and-development facilities and training facilities - especially naval warship yards – there we will build and keep our new technologically advanced hidden army in the shadows … and even if it takes hundreds of years or more - when the League cracks we must be in a position to initiate the Anschluss between our shadow army and the regular armed forces that are in the open …. We will take back the Commonwealth from the League … the ground-work of which must begin now.”
“Archon Sarah Steiner-Dinesen whist discussing the Council Edict of 2650 with her General Staff.”
<NT: At this point in time, this scene is being repeated in every Great House and Periphery State throughout the Inner Sphere. Paradoxically Council Edit 2650 as well as the authoritarian way it was introduced, rather than limiting each Houses’ military can be said to be the start of a new arms race and the end of the golden age of the Star League.>
For the Lyran Commonwealth the Anschluss was initiated - shadow units became formally operational as both the War within the Periphery States and the subsequent Amaris’ Coup d’état Campaign was initiated … and with it all hope of retaining the Star League.
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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Requiem
08/01/21 10:26 AM
124.184.171.41
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The Age of War and the Star League
There is not anything particularly new about the convulsions during the age of war. They speak of the primal, more profound truth, of the Great Houses – cultural identity – where multiple ‘communities’ are engaged in a constant struggle to deny each other’s identity.
In truth, regarding the Star League, is that it initially was an agreement between nations concerning economic and national security; The Star League Defense Force was to be established whereby each member state agreed to an active participation and contribution to the defense of any-and-all Inner Sphere member in the event of a crisis through their combined proxy defense force.
The Star League was proposed to be parliament of equals where communities could respect the differences in their cultural identity and to actively seek a less aggressive solutions through communication.
Prior to its birth, however, it was betrayed by Ian Cameron – and subsequently his descendants – as his title as First Lord, ‘primus inter pares’ (first among equals) was never meant to be a representation of a dictator, it was supposed be used ironically by the Great House Lords with a higher status as a form of respect and camaraderie.
The fall of the Star League were due a million small steps in the wrong direction with no one to curtail the growing power of the First Lord and her/his influence over the Star League Defense Force, the Legislature, and the judiciary – as well as the ideological schism that my way is the only way and if you do not support me you are against me – the ideals of coming to a fair and equitable compromise was over!
The end of the Golden age of the Star League refers when the ‘First Lords’ utilized the Star League Defense Force as their personal police force and not for the ideals they were created to represent, but for the petty whims of the Cameron family and the Hegemony who now viewed themselves above that of all others, as the pre-eminent state – in so doing their wish of proving that they, as First Lord and First State, were de jure superior to that of the others was fulfilled!
It also set in motion an inevitability that war was inevitable – the underlying cracks within the Star League Society were now visible due to class discrimination – ‘the tree of liberty must refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants’ (Thomas Jefferson).
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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Karagin
08/01/21 08:39 PM
70.118.172.64
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Wehrmacht = German: “defense power”. So that is what you are calling this Corps? It can also translate as Armed Force or Forces. I doubt very much that word would have changed even in the 3025 settings.
Why not drop it and go with Blitz or Kreig, playing on that word to give it some zap and coolness?
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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ghostrider
08/02/21 02:03 AM
45.51.181.83
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You need to rewrite the history of the LC, as the military was always having issues with the social generals. Renaming crap isn't gonna cut it.
The entire military should be social generals get your families killed. Featuring the famous Atlas driving morons that tell their Steiner scout lance they can take on a full RCT of the enemy without any sort of back up while they go to have diner with the local nobility.
Had the LC kept competent leaders, the succession wars would have been cut short, even to the point of the 3rd war not being necessary, as the LC would have removed a good chunk of the DC, though they might have actually unified the FWL, since they would have been losing as well.
Maybe you could even have had someone other then the Cameron line in charge of the SL, and removed the entire history beyond 2750. But that would mean having to break completely from canon, which seems to be against the Alt history line.
I keep saying this, and yet it never happens.
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Requiem
08/02/21 03:22 AM
124.184.171.41
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Karagin,
Thank you for your suggestion – as this is initially set in 2650, however, – due to the Edict of 2650 – and continues to the start of the Amaris’ Coup d’état Campaign - 2766 to 2767 - I believe the word Wehrmact is apt (defence power) in that the LCAF is being rebuilt (in secret) in the event force is required to evict the SLDF from Lyran space …
Ghostrider,
This is the Alt History: Wehrmact 2766 - it is not the Canon LCAF pre 4th Succession War …
And speaking of Social Generals you do realize that the SLDF was far more guilty of utilizing Social Generals than the LCAF ever were – as demonstrated that despite each army’s size within the Periphery States prior to Amaris’ Coup d’état Campaign nearly every single Army suffered 50% casualties … as well as all Commanders in chief of the SLDF …
Thus indicating a leadership who really do not understand what they are doing …. ie. social generals from the TH ... especially when you consider the size and the equipment of periphery states compared to that of the SLDF and their Royal units!
I would also like to state that calling a unit Royal also indicates as to the pretentious nature of the TH nobility and the First Lord.
As for all other militaries …. Humanity has adopted the principal of professional military and professional commanders for how many centuries by 2766 so the idea that they would take a step back is lunacy of the highest order.
And yet I have already discussed the reanimation of the TH post Amaris war in that of something vastly different when, with the removal of Kerensky, the SLDF remains within the SL
Sorry to say but if anyone wants a long Amaris civil war the only rational thing is to rewrite the Canon – too many black holes for it to be considered a viable history ….
Kerensy should be just another minor character all said and done …
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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ghostrider
08/02/21 12:04 PM
45.51.181.83
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Using history, the example of the Revolutionary war when the U.S. broke free of England, some of the best militaries can be brought down by having their protocols not being able to respond to different tactics.
The concept of stand in a line, fire, then kneel as those behind you fire met up with the hide and shoot from behind trees and walls and such is a prime example.
As the future used far more powerful weapons, it is far easier for someone to blow up an entire barracks, with a bomb or missile, making it more deadly. With things like lasers, sniping people without the sound of the shot should be a thing. Oddly enough, the game really never seems to get away from slug throwers in this regard.
The SLDF was fighting in the periphery against a very fluid force that could strike and retreat as they knew the terrain, while the SLDF didn't.
The fact that the SLDF needed to use local labor for building and such made it easier for the defenders to gain intel data from the SLDF. The occupation roll is a very difficult one to do much with.
On return to the TH, they had to deal with the fact that their own defense buildings were in enemy hands. This does mean the SLDF had some intel on them, but in this case, were made of better materials with better defensive positions.
Now something that seems to be overlooked. The fact that hundreds of worlds possibly thousands in the periphery were all trying to be subdued. So 5000 regiments isn't as much as you might think when dealing with that. And as stated, not all of them were sent to war. You had so much that you HAD to guard, that would have cut deeply into your reserves. The fleet had to guard as many transports in and out of the periphery as well as important worlds in the IS, and the TH. So again, the numbers are not that overwhelming when you consider this.
With invading the TH, even 3 to one odds isn't going to guarantee a victory, especially when Amaris was willing to use nukes to remove the SLDFs numeric advantage. The SLDF had used nukes to dig out the defenders, as any really large group would be a sure fire target for nukes.
And with all of this, any nukes used, meant even if people survived the blast, the radiation they absorbed would probably kill them quickly (if lucky). Amaris would have used any means to try and stop the SLDF from advancing, which would also include Bio and chemical weapons, though I haven't seen a large mention of this in the story line.
Compound this with trying to avoid destroying the entire infrastructure in place made it even harder to advance. The factories would be a large thing you would want to avoid destroying, but in the end, I don't see how they could do more then just trying to limit damage.
But this light touch means lives lost from it. Now add to this research facilities as well as the defenses that were in place to prevent the houses from attacking, and it all leads to the same thing.
So many lives lost.
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Karagin
08/02/21 12:26 PM
70.118.172.64
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I am starting to get the hint that he is posting his stuff so we write his version of things for him.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Requiem
08/02/21 09:01 PM
124.184.171.41
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Quote:
The SLDF was fighting in the periphery against a very fluid force that could strike and retreat as they knew the terrain, while the SLDF didn't.
Problem with this is that
First, the SLDF have Warships in orbit or should have command of the sky or have vehicles (eg. drones) thus making terrain pointless as they can provide detailed topography maps as required …
Second, how long have the SLDF posted their units upon Periphery worlds? - Since the Reunification War – so the idea that the SLDF do not know the terrain sounds a little absurd.
Quote:
The fact that the SLDF needed to use local labor for building and such made it easier for the defenders to gain intel data from the SLDF.
These bases have been there since the Reunification War – also they would have been built by the SLDF engineering units – just as all other hidden bases throughout the IS were created …
Periphery worlds …
Canopus … approximately 80 worlds
consisting of 22 conventional and 108 Mech Regiments and 22 naval vessels
SLDF 17th Army
XLIII Corps – 72 Regiments
XLVIII Corps – 73 Regiments
LXXII Corps – 73 Regiments Total 218 Regiments
Taurian … approximately 75 worlds
Outworlds … approximately 136 worlds
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On return to the TH, they had to deal with the fact that their own defense buildings were in enemy hands.
So? The SLDF would have intimate knowledge of all these bases – if attacked with all alacrity this would diminish any time for Amaris’ forces to modify them …
Then there is the point this is a Blitzkrieg – all that is required is to establish a naval blockage of every world held by Amaris' Forces (secondary and tertiary priority worlds) with the exception of Terra (THE Primary Target) – once Amaris is in custody all other forces can be dealt with one world at a time – force or reason can be used request their surrender at this point.
The idea that you HAVE to clear every world to reach a destination with regards to space warfare is outmoded and illogical – if your fleet can reach it you can attack it - if your fleet is large enough you can blockage the majority or all of the worlds Amaris has forces on - thus forcing his fleet away from Terra if he makes a blunder this great!
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Star_League_Defense_Force
By 2764 The SLDF had over 15,000 regiments and just as many warships, Jumpships and Dropships ….
The Idea that a blockade cannot be established on every world Amaris forces have a presence on – whist driving upon Terra becomes ridiculous.
In addition utilizing a blockade strategy will have the added bonus of reducing lives lost!
The SLDF has close to or if not more than 5,000 warships – they have exited the Periphery and are now attacking the TH en mass so yes there should be available forces to conduct a massive invasion into the TH once all 20 armies reach their jump off points to invade the TH with all due alacrity!
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Rim_Worlds_Army
By April 2765 – Amaris has approximately 270 warships
Even if the SLDF attacked as per this page – 2,250 warships this is still 8:1 so will this guarantee victory?
also this would also require the RWR to now have no warships at all as Amaris has taken every single one to the TH ...
Nukes – again blockading worlds will mean NO nukes on the majority of worlds (no ground invasions) – only Terra as Amaris attempts to defend himself – once Amaris is in custody their reason for fighting is OVER so how many will surrender and how many will keep up the war?
If they use Nukes the SLDF will use orbital bombardment upon all their fortresses!
5 minutes later there wont be any Amaris forces on that world!
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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ghostrider
08/02/21 09:10 PM
45.51.181.83
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I believe that has been true the entire time he was posting the Alt threads. And yet they all seem to continue the logic holes of canon, which it doesn't seem like the Alt wants to move away from. There is no way to rewrite the game history and use the same story that has become the canon line.
The sterilized version just does not have enough in reality to even begin to sound right. I don't like the idea that WMDs are used like they are, but that is something that humans have done their entire history of warfare. Even the midevil ages, WMD such as plague was used in sieges. Sending over disintegrating livestock to sicken the defenders was done. There is much more, but not a good topic.
Saying that a single piece of paper would stop it in the future isn't going to happen. Nukes should have been banned before the TA had started colonizing the stars, and yet nothing. Pirates have always been a bane to all, yet they continue to operate without much of an issue.
A war game will not be able to remove these factors, as they are what drives players to become warriors and try to punish those that use such tactics. Hate to say it, but it is the back bone of all stories. Most deal with treachery that happens to their family or friends.
It was written a long while ago, that understanding of the game wasn't a strong suit. Now, after so long, even the history of the SL was found at fault and had to be rewritten. That was stated a while back, and only now is it being looked into.
So rewrite the game story means starting over from the time the K-F drive was being made is necessary. Then go from there.
And if you really look deep enough into it, before that time is flawed and inconsistent as well.
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ghostrider
08/02/21 09:36 PM
45.51.181.83
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The reconned information screws up the history of the game even more. Drones did not exist when the story was started. Terrain is being used in a larger context then just what you see. Camoflage covers hide a lot as well as tunnels and such.
Also, being briefed on terrain is nothing like knowing it from being there. I know this as being a bus driver for 7 years, when you ask a driver about a route, they tell you to turn at the green building. But they forget to tell you that is at night, so the blue building with a yellow light shining on it means the green building doesn't exist in the day light.
This is not even including having the defenders changing things around, like changing the name of streets, or saying their target is further away, or behind them. Yes, the systems should have a map, and even one that hasn't been modified by the enemy.
We all know the sensors in the game are only a little better then eyeballs. The high tech spy cameras didn't exist in Battletech at that time.
The idea that every single unit is sent out to invade the periphery shows thru again. Those units shown for the SLDF were for the REGION, not what they had available to attack with. They HAD to guard so many things, it would be lucky to get even a third of those forces into the states. But again, you don't believe in guarding anything, so logic fails.
I guess the concept of nukes being planted anywhere the SLDF were going tends to slip your mind, as you seem to think a target as large as say a division would not entice Amaris to nuke them. But then it seems you think in numbers only. I have 20 units, and you have 4. I should win because I have 16 more units then you do. That isn't how war works. Especially when you have suicide troops ready to die for their leader. Which was the case with Amaris's forces.
So sure. Land all your dropships in one location. One swipe and you no longer have them. Same can be said with the warships. A few stolen shuttles or fighters landing inside and detonating their warheads, even the non nukes will take out a warship from the inside. Detonating the ammo inside of a ship will cause major damage to it.
If they use Nukes the SLDF will use orbital bombardment upon all their fortresses!
That statement shows a lack of any comprehension skills. The ENTIRE war was riddled with nukes being used on both sides. The SLDF used nukes back. And no matter what you might think, mining the approach to a world is far easier then a jump point. You know the enemy will be coming from one way, and having a simple thrust pack, or worse, using normal drones, to bring in those items when the fleet approaches.
Having all those ships does not mean you win automatically.
Simple jumping out of system prevents your victory. Yet to get to me, you have to move towards me. It isn't that hard to set up a few traps, like a mine field, and jump out after your first ships enter the field. Then rinse and repeat elsewhere. No one say I have to engage you the way you want me to. Part of why raiding is a major part of the wars in the game. I hit, and prevent you from hitting back. I can hit other places to, as you never guard anything. So I will take your supplies or at least deny you of them, while you chase down what you think it my main forces. Then force you to have to refight the battles on worlds you left behind, from worlds you didn't touch.
I am not a master strategist or tactician, but I do know war is not a straight up line everyone up and fire until one side dies or surrenders. For someone to even suggest this, means I am not as stupid as I think I am.
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Karagin
08/02/21 09:46 PM
70.118.172.64
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I could see if his Point of Departure was set say prior to the entire Amaris affair happening then, maybe his points would be more valid. That is the trouble with Alternate History stories, one needs to fully understand the actual historical moments they are writing about to make their changes actually fit.
Prime example, in the novel Two Georges, the writers include Richard Nixion, not as a politician but as a used car sales and show him as complete scum, they broke the golden rule, if you are going to show a known figure as less than they are in Original Timeline, you need a why.
That seems to be the case here. Requiem doesn't want to get into the minutia of the characters and their reasons for doing what they did, and he gives us NO need for characters to fill for one of the historical characters not being there. I would advise him to read Harry Turtledove or S.M. Stirling, among others, to get an idea of what should be done for alternate history stories.
Even my one going Alternate Take on the Jihad and post Inner Sphere ala NO Dark Age crap, I have to have a reason why things happen and why certain people or events do not end up being what they were in the canon setting. Hence why I recommended, and still do, the Empire Aflames setting for his stuff. It gives him a pretty open-ended ability to have things happen close to how he wants or even to adjust things as far back as the Amaris War and go forward.
Also, every change he wants to make will have ripples, it would mean that even small changes might not cause an operation to happen as written because one of the primary characters doesn't show up or is dead. Things he isn't taking into account are really killing what could be good ideas for stories or a whole new "realm" of play for some players.
It is like being the GM/DM and you know if you let your players make elite characters the secession are going to be a nightmare for you to run and they will have fun up to a point. That is the problem here, we are getting this new version of canon history without any real reason why. If you go back and look at one of my posts, I talk about how earlier on Kurtia should have pushed on New Avalon and instead let other things distract them, and they lost their chance to sunder the FedSuns. I gave my reason why I thought they should have ignored Robinson and other targets and went for the capital, thus breaking the spirit of Suns and weakening their overall morale. Folks countered with logical reasons as to why they (Kurtia) need to take other worlds first and some countered that taking the capital would have been more of a tactical win but stragetic loss in the long run.
Your last paragraph is a good point. The game leaves out a lot that happens between the Terran Alliance rise and fall, yes we have information but it's not detailed and it leaves a lot of room for what if this or that to be applied. That might be his best bet, to start right after the K-F Drives are putting into use, and go forward. Offering a fully reasoned-out timeline, with characters and NPCs and fluff that gives us a universe that either makes sense with the changes, or is different enough to warrant playing. And one thing, unless he nerfs mechs altogether, he is going to have to have them happen either when they did, or sooner, other wise he might want to switch to Traveller or a GURPS setting.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Karagin
08/03/21 12:41 AM
70.118.172.64
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Given that mechs are the elite force of warriors as far as the majority of the Houses are concerned, the idea that tanks even have the role and use they do is because even the most jaded Mechwarrior knows they can't be everywhere and for the bean counters that are politicians and auditors, tanks are cheaper.
Now having said that, the idea of cool is lost on tanks when you have three-plus tall walking tanks. So the glamor and fame are going to go there.
The Lyrans should and I say should, be able to field a huge amount of armor, that's true, but they won't go that route when mechs have proven themselves to be far more adaptive to the terrain than tanks.
Now could they have a larger tank corps, most certainly, but it won't be at levels we are being told or hinted at nor will prestige and honor and glory be there, thus folks getting the job of tanker or armored crewmember if you want the job title correctly, will be the folks who wash out of mech training, recruits from worlds that have no social pull and folks who join to join and the unlucky conscripted guy or gal from Podunk backwater worlds. And they are easily replaced along with their now dead tank, where as that mechs is not so easily replaced.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Karagin
08/03/21 12:46 AM
70.118.172.64
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Now a good breakdown would be to have 4 regiments of mechs, 6 regiments of armor, and mechanized infantry with regimental support battalion and artillery regiments, all would make up one brigade under a general.
Then take two more of these and then you have a division. Boom, they get the best of all worlds. Simple easy and no major re-writes needed.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Requiem
08/03/21 02:03 AM
124.184.171.41
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Quote:
There is no way to rewrite the game history and use the same story that has become the canon line.
Unless you use canon as the basic template from which to launch the Alt History …
Quote:
WMDs - Saying that a single piece of paper would stop it in the future isn't going to happen.
And yet as GM of your own universe all WMDs can be removed. The Ares, or whatever you want to call it, conventions will remain in place.
As stated, many times, once you allow WMDs in the natural extension of this is to create a ship with one function – World Killers (WK) – and as such fleets of such ships can be established and in so doing turn whole areas of space into dead zones! … So unless you want a game where M.A.D. is your aim why go down this track?
Quote:
even the history of the SL was found at fault and had to be rewritten.
How long has BattleTech existed?
The ability to rewrite should not be that difficult as it has already started in many small aspects that I have made note of previously.
The problem lies in many of the lager game’s history and the key players therein - Kerensky is a good example of this … saying he is a great general and yet creating a backstory whereby his military career only went to Captain and thereafter he was in Administration, where he obtained the top job just because he was aide to the last CIC and he happened to believe in prophetic dreams really does not help with the image of a great general … then when you factor in how the Canon war progressed this confirms the fact he is an political appointee, incompetent and a coward!
So, it is either a Canon re-write (and another 50 years) or do it yourself …
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Drones did not exist when the story was started.
Question what is a Boomerang Spotter Vehicle for?
Also Hi-Scout drone carrier?
Camo - how great is it against Satellites or how about U2 technology?
Quote:
The idea that every single unit is sent out to invade the periphery shows thru again.
The SLDF divided the IS into 20 Army Sectors – there was one army each for each periphery state and of that army the commanders lost half their forces to a periphery army that should be somewhere between a quarter to a half the size of the Star League garrison and never had access to the technology a Royal unit has – hence incompetency on the part of the SLDF commanders should be considered.
Quote:
I guess the concept of nukes being planted anywhere the SLDF were going tends to slip your mind,
First – Ground warfare is obsolete when invading the TH during the Amaris campaign except for Terra – only during the mop up phase post terra is a land campaign really required!
Second – Where are the Patriot batteries, aerospace interceptor fighters, naval units whose scanners should be able to detect such weapons etc ?
Third – the moment you open up with a nuclear strike I open up with an orbital bombardment and from that moment on I open up with an orbital bombardment prior to any invasion …. It just goes round and round
So again you want to turn the game into the most boring game out there start throwing around nukes and see how far that gets the game. There will never be another Mech engagement from then on as any concentration of forces and the SLDF decide to sterilize the entire area!
Shuttles – how many code books will be required for this ?
Mines – as stated how many time before they are supposed to not work within the game – despite the fact when actually included in cannon history and have never been allowed for player use!
Then there is the issue of warship speed and the energy shields they have on the front of them …
Quote:
Simple jumping out of system prevents your victory.
Tactical retreat to where? And then my forces move forward to your next line of defence and the battle commences once more … as stated many, many times mines do not work in the game! Where are they within any TRO? and what happens to debris in the path of an incoming Jump-ship the same as any mine within proximity?
Quote:
I do know war is not a straight up line everyone up and fire until one side dies or surrenders.
And yet with warships, within space and a 3D setting, this is the very thing you do – line up ships into a shape that provides multiple overlapping fields of fire – any enemy ship or fleet approaching will be attacked with concentrated fire from multiple ships at the same time – this is repeated until one side or the other flees or is destroyed – consider it an extension of the Bomber formation of WW2 and the overlapping field of fire for the gunners.
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I could see if his Point of Departure was set say prior to the entire Amaris affair happening then, maybe his points would be more valid.
For the past 11 years HPG have been placed within capital fleet ships (especially flag ships) – thus establishing a point of departure as well as an attack timetable is achievable whist moving from Base to front line TH space!
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why
The back story is at the discretion of the writer … sometimes you don’t need to know, you just run with it …
Quote:
Requiem doesn't want to get into the minutia of the characters and their reasons for doing what they did
Then why did I analyse everything I could on all the major characters – put them in their document and then attempt to analyse their psychology? Whist at the same time analysing what is going on around them – their environment (nature or nurture?)
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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Requiem
08/03/21 02:05 AM
124.184.171.41
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And now back to the Wehrmacht!
Amaris’ Coup d’état Campaign - 2767
At the time Stefan Amaris’ Coup d’état, the Anschluss LCAF comprised over <GM Determined> combined arms ground forces regiments, in addition to a fleet of over <GM Determined> capital vessels – whilst in comparison the SLDF consisted of <GM Determined> combined arms ground forces and approximately <GM Determined> capital vessels.
Each Panzer Corps are organized into the following military aspect.
Lyran Corps
HQ CO: Ober-Gruppen-Fuhrer XO: Gruppen-Fuhrer
- 1st Brigade BCO: Leutnant-Gruppen-Fuhrer
- 1st Regimental Combat Team RCO: Standarten-Fuhrer
- 2nd Regimental Combat Team
- 3rd Regimental Combat Team
- 2nd Brigade
- 1st Regimental Combat Team
- 2nd Regimental Combat Team
- 3rd Regimental Combat Team
- 3rd Brigade
- 1st Regimental Combat Team
- 2nd Regimental Combat Team
- 3rd Regimental Combat Team
- Einherjar Detachment CO: Standarten-Fuhrer
- Luftwaffe Detachment CO: Luft-Kommodore
- Support Brigade
HQ multiple semi-autonomous departments – responsibilities include …
- Administration
- Signals and Mapping
- Military Intelligence – Strategies and Tactics
- Judge Advocate General – Commissar
- Logistics, Replacement-Deployment and Quartermaster Command
- Liaison
- Transport
Regimental Combat Team – A large multi-regiment formation that consist of a Regiment of BattleMechs, three Regiments of combat vehicles, five Regiments of infantry, two to five VTOL fighter wings, a Battalion of artillery, and two Attached Luftwaffe Aerospace fighter wings.
Einherjar Detachment – A multi-battalion formation that consisting of BattleMechs, combat vehicles, infantry, VTOLs, together with Luftwaffe aerospace fighters, that can be reduced in size and scope as per individual mission requirements.
Luftwaffe Detachment – On paper considered an individual multi-wing conventional fighter formation – In practice individual wings are assigned to RCT as per projected battle requirements.
Support Brigade – multiple semi-autonomous departments – responsibilities include …
- Medical
- Engineering
- Logistics
- Transport – Logistics, Recovery, Medical etc.
- Maintenance
- Commissary
- Weapons (maintenance) and Ammunition Storage etc.
High Command – Oberkommando des Heeres (OKH; Army High Command)
Under Lyran constitutional law vested in the Articles of Acceptance the command and government of the Lyran armed forces is vested in the Archon and as such he/she holds the highest office in the military chain of command.
As such the Commander-in-Chief (Reichsmarschall) of the Lyran Commonwealth Armed Forces (LCAF) refers to the supreme command authority, a military role vested in the Archon.
The authority to issue orders and give commands to military personnel is delegated by the Archon to her/his commanders in the field, however she/ he does retain the right to issue orders personally.
Defense Services Secretary of the Archon
The DSS is the primary channel of communication between the Archon, in her/his capacity as Commander-in-Chief and the officers and commanders of the LCAF. This office provides the Archon with the information and documentation related to defense affairs that she/he requires to perform her/his military functions and was created as part of the centralization of military affairs into a single defense ministry. The DSS maintains a direct link with the officers and chief of staff of the Army, Navy, and Air (space) Force within the Ministry of Defense.
Ministry of Defense - Military Department - Bundeswehr
The Ministry of Defense is the central command and control instrument for the Archon in exercising her/his function as commander-in-chief of the armed forces and as head of defense administration.
Responsible for providing the military forces needed to deter war and protect the security of the Lyran Commonwealth and their civil administration and procurement authorities.
Regional Commands – Oberbefehlshaber - OB : < Military District – Operational Area > Commander in Chief < Rank, Name >
As of 2750, the Lyran Commonwealth was divided into Military Districts which maintained multiple smaller Operational Areas, each with their own assigned forces and military commander as the primary lines of defense for the Commonwealth, lying along its borders with the Draconis Combine, Free Worlds League, and the Anti-spin-ward Periphery Rim Worlds Republic.
Operational Areas are named after the location of the commanding officer’s headquarters. Their commanders receive the non-hereditary title of Markgraf allowing them to act in the capacity of military commander to protect the people and worlds in their area from invaders, and at the same time protect the Lyran Commonwealth.
Military Regional Command (as at 2750)
Each Corp was provided a numeral name eg. 1st Panzer Corps.
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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ghostrider
08/03/21 02:58 AM
45.51.181.83
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A basic template? Not sure how you can use something that goes one way, then a retcon removes that ability or gives other paths that would have been taken, only to do the same thing later on in real time, but for the story, the new stuff changes the history and future yet again. The entire SDS thing was never seen until the Jihad happened.
The hi scout and boomerang are both manned units. They are not drones. The units the Hi Scout uses are remote controlled units, with goes against the entire bs of the game not allowing remote control until the SDS was needed to prevent the Jihad from being wiped out before it even began.
TPTB changed how the story would have gone with the addition of a few things. The concept of sitting in orbit and looking thru telescopes or the spy cameras of today should let you know if a city is evacuated. That alone should tell you the enemy knows your units are moving in on it. This is because your sensors wouldn't be able to detect anything, as they bite the big one. Until they are needed to find the needle in the haystack.
So you think the periphery, besides Amaris, were playing by the rules?
That is a purely foolish concept. First off, the citizens would be part of the raiders hitting the SLDF. There is a story about how the local ladies would pal up to soldiers, then kill them. This is a full scale freedom fight for the periphery. They will use every dirty tactic they can think of, and come up with more. Even moreso then your concept of what the DC would have done with the clans.
You do understand that a nuke can be about the size of a briefcase? Granted, those ones aren't very powerful, but they are hard to detect. Not sure when Battletech got energy shields, so I don't know how to respond to that one without violating the rules of the board.
But seeing the response here, I think I figured out why you don't want anything but a numbers game. It means you can't beat someone thru being smart. You just have to have more units. Might as well just stand still in your light mechs and let the assault mechs wipe them out.
Tactical retreat to where? ANYWHERE as you have not done anything to secure where I can go. And with that, I can hit your supplies, reinforcements, and even finish off damaged ships that are moving to a repair facility, even possibly taking them.
With each line of defense, you will lose more and more units. I don't even need to have them manned, and you would lose. One spotter and land lines to activate mines, including nukes. You say you can take a world without landing on it.
With the bombardments and nukes, you are doing something worse then just leaving the IS. You are killing those you swore to protect. YOU ARE KILLING THEM.
Might need to actually think before responding. The scenario presented was to jettison or fire off things as you are approaching a fleet before they jump out. Incoming jump wave is not even involved. I know where you are coming from and send out the bombs and such while you head towards me. Pretty simple. And since you are so focused on engagement, you are not going to change course for anything, as you know your ship will kill mine.
You think that space battles have ships just line up and sit in one position?
Movement is life. It is why it is harder to hit a moving target then a sitting one. In space, you will NOT just sit there and fire. Well, you might order you ships to do so.
In a 3D environment, you can be hit from all directions. And that should be utilized. Keep thinking in 2d terms. You will be destroyed rather quickly.
For the past 11 years HPG have been placed within capital fleet ships (especially flag ships) – thus establishing a point of departure as well as an attack timetable is achievable whist moving from Base to front line TH space!
Wow. No comprehension of anything with this one. Point of Departure was used to mean when the story line changed from the canon story to the alt. Not from a point in space for an attack.
There is no analysis of characters that I have seen. It was just put up as you wanted, as the story needed them a certain way for it to go how you wanted it. The only thing you did was try and find loop holes to exploit. The looking glass needs to be cleaned once in a while.
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Requiem
08/03/21 05:23 AM
124.184.171.41
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The entire SDS thing
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Space_Defense_System
The hi scout and boomerang are both manned units.
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Hi-Scout
Mission Scout / Drone Carrier
What is the function of a reconnaissance Drone and that of a Boomerang – conjecture only.
Citizens would be part of the raiders hitting the SLDF
In so doing they relinquish their civilian status and are therefore redesignated as military combatants – some one really should have explained to them what happens when this occurs.
Tactical retreat to where? ANYWHERE
Semantics
The scenario presented was to jettison or fire off things as you are approaching a fleet before they jump out.
Wouldn’t you have a forward screening force including aerospace fighters just in case this was attempted?
In space, you will NOT just sit there and fire.
And just as a bombers fly – warships soar through space – both can maintain a defensive posture to enable their guns to protect each other and to deliver concentrated fire on attacking aircraft / ships.
Point of Departure
This is not what I believed it to be.
There is no analysis of characters that I have seen.
There is no one else putting up their theory based upon all available information – there are multiple Forums that contain analysis of key individuals … yet to see a response to dispute them.
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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Karagin
08/03/21 09:51 AM
70.118.172.64
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Battletech doesn't have an energy shield per se. There is the Blue Shield Dampener system.
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Blue_Shield_Particle_Field_Damper
That only works to stop PPC fire.
I believe he is confusing the "detonator grid" that is found in the Steiner Stadium for his so-called energy shields. It starts to sound more and more like he is cherry-picking what he wants and ignoring everything he hates.
The fact that he doesn't understand my reference regarding what Point of Departure means suggests that he is fully unfamiliar with how alternate histories work.
So here are some sites to help him (or anyone out):
https://www.masterclass.com/articles/how-to-write-your-own-alternate-history-novel
https://rogue-skies.com/2019/07/17/changing-history-a-beginners-guide-to-writing-alternate-history/
https://www.standoutbooks.com/writing-alternate-history-fiction/
And the best summary:
3 Essential Tips for Writing Alternate History Fiction
Focus on one specific change to historical events. ...
Do a ton of research that goes beyond the single event you are altering. ...
Remember the same rules of standard fiction writing apply.
So far, we have seen all three of these rules broken, so maybe these sites will help him out. And again, I will suggest he look at the format of Empires Aflame, and it gives him a template to run with for what he wants to do. The setting may not be to his liking, but it's easier to tweak that setting since it doesn't have countless sourcebooks to get in the way; thus, he can adjust things and not be caught in the issues of canon stuff getting in his way.
However, based on his previous comments, I believe he will ignore the advice given and thus continue on this path of wanting his own storyline and ignoring canon to fit his needs.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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ghostrider
08/03/21 12:22 PM
45.51.181.83
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What is the function of a reconnaissance Drone and that of a Boomerang – conjecture only.
Conjecture only is the function of the two? I think you need to really think of your responses as this makes no sense in the context you used them in.
The concept of people living in an area being attacked by a hated nation is not something new. It happens in almost every war. The main difference is the numbers of people that do so. I believe that the statement of any enemy of the U.S. could destroy the military and spend the next few decades fighting the citizens, has merit. The more you kill, the more join in the resistance to remove you. This is the idea of resistance in the periphery.
Gotta love this one:
Tactical retreat to where? ANYWHERE
Semantics
You think that the enemy's ability to retreat to anywhere, as you have not secured the way they can is semantics? Glad you aren't in any sort of command position in the military. You would spend the entire time chasing your tail in a few miles. And getting those under you command killed. Think about it before you start lodging incompetency accusations.
Velocity is life. Warships do the same thing in space as fighters do. You attempt to avoid the enemies incoming fire. You can't do that sitting in one place. As the game says speed 4 is the same for the lightest fighter as it is for the largest warship, it sounds comical to think a warship could attempt the same thing, but that is how they survive. Otherwise, you will constantly have ships being damaged, with some being destroyed. This goes back to the idea of losing 95% of your forces. You would get pounded without returning it in kind. Stationary target concept.
If the Damper is being referred to, then the entire concept falls apart. That is unless he is saying that tech was introduced before the fall of the SL. Timewarping again comes to mind.
And the advice to look into Empires Aflame will be ignored, as the ultimate alt comes from only one mind.
I am against trying to keep canon involved when you change the whole concept of history. The FC would never have come about had the SL lived. There is no practical way for them to join. The TH prevents that from happening.
The LC would NOT gain Defiance, as the SL would not have fallen and left the world to whomever could get it.
More then a few worlds are important to the 3025 era and beyond that is with in the TH. Terra itself is one.
This questions of if WOB would have become a thing if it was still part of the SL?
So no. Without the need for joining, his ultimate goal of making Katherine the first lord for life will not come about. And yet it is pushed in that direction. Katherine would not be alive. The DC would not have almost taken New Avalon in the 1st war. The FWL is tricky. They may have formed a more loyal base, as the Captain-General position would never have become a permanent thing. So the Marik's might have been removed from power by vote. Or they might have finally split up into the smaller states so each 'duke' could rule their lands without interferrence from the Mariks or others.
The CC might well have become an economic powerhouse without the succession wars destroying their industry base faster then the others had.
It is very possible the peace would have lasted far longer then it did, or the houses would have sent in the assassins to remove the Cameron line. It is also possible the houses might be able to remove the heir based succession of the Camerons from ruling the SL.
But this is a war game. No war means no need for new books. No new books means going bankrupt.
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Requiem
08/03/21 11:11 PM
124.184.171.41
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Quote:
BattleTech does not have an energy shield per se.
Please explain what happens to a drop-ship / Jump-ship / Warship travelling at max velocity between the Jump point and the interior world when it is struck by dust particles / small rocks in the absence of an energy shield?
Quote:
The fact that he doesn't understand my reference regarding what Point of Departure means suggests that he is fully unfamiliar with how alternate histories work.
The starting point of a line of thought or course of action; an initial assumption
A navigational check point / jumping off place
Law – when a party quits or departs from the case
How about toxicology ….
Thanks, but no thanks – no assistance required – when studying writing this may have been of assistance – conformity kills creativity / innovation … lack of motivation and stagnation …
Rules for writing – question would you demand of all writers’ adherence to all rules no matter what – thus restricting their creative style of writing?
Again, Empire Aflame is not required …
Velocity is life … energy weapons are at what speed compared to the velocity of any ship? … range to target?
Again, Cannon is not required … the individual should be allowed to choose their history … any individual should be allowed to create their version … and present it …
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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ghostrider
08/04/21 01:30 AM
45.51.181.83
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The game doesn't deal with real life effects like smashing into any object while moving at speed in space. And don't forget that dropships can go much faster, if they want/need to. The travel speeds/time is for a normal limited burn.
The armor is implied to deal with such issues, but the game doesn't want to deal with fine details for aerospace. This is a land battle game, not Robotech or Star Wars.
Some sort of energy shield, besides the Steiner Arena isn't in the game. The Blueshield Karagin was talking about is more of a dampener then a shield. And honestly, it's tech path leads to a dark path.
Did you read what Karagin said about Empires Aflame?
conformity kills creativity / innovation … lack of motivation and stagnation …
That response suggests either you didn't or you don't comprehend the reference to using it as a base for the changes you want. He did not say you needed to use the entire thing as is. He said to springboard off it. He even said to change it to fit your vision. No where did it state it had to stand as is.
When writing anything, you have to stick to the rules of what you are writing about. If you feel it restricts creativity, then you don't accept the job to write about it. I don't seen encyclopedias having statement that aren't facts about the things they are describing. If you are writing a fiction story based on a game, then you should follow the game rules, otherwise you distort the game itself. If I wrote about the civil wars or even world wars, and said the energy shields used by one side would mean a complete breakdown as some people would view that as the accurate fact of the fighting.
If energy weapons, which also include PPCs which don't instantly hit the target like Lasers do, were soo good, why don't they have a bonus to hit anything? I do agree that lasers should hit more often then ballistic, and game missiles as most are unguided according to their own definition. PPCs are not instant transmission weapons.
I could use TPTB's excuse and say the laser needs time to focus damage in order to work, but that is a cop out. Their own fluff says the armor runs like molten metal when it hits and doesn't say anything about having to remain focused on a single spot for long. Just grazing is supposed to do the damage.
Again, Cannon is not required … the individual should be allowed to choose their history … any individual should be allowed to create their version … and present it …
The statement that doesn't work for you. You are trying to warp canon to fit your vision. The alt should not follow canon as it constantly does with the alt. Changing a few things changes the ENTIRE future of a story line. Things that happen in 3025 would not happen without the fall of the SL.
Saying no WMD are used means less dead worlds and more intact factories. So instead of using a company or even a lance to attack a world, you have to have a flotilla of RCTs to do anything. It doesn't make the game any more fun when you have 1000 units to kill verses having only 12. Most people don't want to play Battlespace with a few dozen ships in order to get to the ground and fight lance on lance. The presented way of the alt suggests you can't do anything smaller then an RCT at a time, as there is far to many units to bring in less. It also means far more worlds you have to deal with.
In the end, your actions mean nothing to winning the battle for your side. Mercs wouldn't really be necessary, as you have dozens of RCTs ready to go to war. Mercs work only when there is a lack of available units, or they are too stupid to realize they were hired to soak up bullets.
But canon not required. Stop trying to run with canon with all the changes. It doesn't work.
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Requiem
08/04/21 04:43 AM
124.184.171.41
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Quote:
When writing anything, you have to stick to the rules of what you are writing about.
Now is the winter of our discontent
Made glorious summer by this daughter of Tharkad
The game’s afoot:
Follow your spirit, and upon this charge
Cry ‘God for Katherine, Lyran Alliance and Valkyrie Sigrun!
(Archon Katherine act 3 scene 1)
If transferred to Shakespeare must we use go down this path?
Nay I say Nay again winters chill and poor conformity
to the dirge of failure brought forth by entrapping verse and soul
Quote:
If energy weapons, which also include PPCs which don't instantly hit the target like Lasers do, were soo good, why don't they have a bonus to hit anything?
Quote:
The game doesn't deal with real life effects
So what is so wrong utilizing cannon – you just use - larva - transposed and characters and locations and weave them in – then let the universe undergo chrysalis … and emerge the butterfly!
Quote:
Changing a few things changes the ENTIRE future of a story line.
We are the dreamers and we manufacture the dream as we see fit … if we just wish to amend a section for the sake of that section alone that is the prerogative the party in the game! … if we want to amend it all that to is at the discretion of the party involved … freedom allows the individual to choose
Is fate set in stone, inevitable, or is it able to change with the whims of individuals …. Dr Who puts this to the test! And in my writing, I will choose …
It is the gamers and their GM who decide if they face a Corps or a lance … or to face a fleet of warships or none at all ….
Again and again conforming the mind to a single realm dulls the game … expand the horizon create one offs - Create new and exiting worlds by transposing villains to heroes and heroes to villains …
The game world should never be set in stone! It is there to have fun so have fun create the world that will provide the greatest excitement …. Be free …
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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Requiem
08/04/21 06:16 AM
124.184.171.41
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And now back to the Wehrmacht!
Military Regional Command (as at 2750)
Each Corp was provided a numeral name eg. 1st Panzer Corps.
Donegal Province
OB Tharkad – Capital world of the Lyran Commonwealth – SLDF Space Station – Homeport 8th Fleet.
OB Donegal – Capital world of the Donegal Province.
Alarion Province
OB Alarion – Capital world of the Alarion Province – Port Sydney Naval Shipyards.
Furillo Province
OB Furillo – Capital world of the Furillo Province – Defiance Industries.
Federation of Skye
OB New Kyoto – Regional capital of the Rahneshire Region of the Federation of Skye – Kyoto College (Myomers), Doering Electronics, & RAMTech Industries.
OB Alexandria – Federation of Skye cultural haven.
OB Skye – Capital world of the Federation of Skye – Major commercial hub including Drop-ships and Warships, SLDF Sanglamore Academy.
OB Kannon – Regional capital of the Kannon Shire of the Federation of Skye.
Tamar Pact Province
OB Camlann – Administrative capital of the Camlannshire Region of the Tamar Pact Province.
OB Tamar – Capital world of the Tamar Pact – SLDF HQ of the XLII Corps – Bolson-Tamar Shipyards
OB Twycross – Administrative capital of the Twycross Region of the Tamar Pact Province – Trellshire Heavy Industries – SLDF Garrison.
Coventry Province
OB Coventry – Administrative capital of the Coventry Province – Industrial and agricultural – Coventry Metal Works – Coventry Military Academy – SLDF Garrison.
Post Absorption of the Rim Worlds Republic into the Lyran Commonwealth (as at 2773)
Rim Worlds Province
OB Apollo – Former capital of the Rim Worlds Republic – Roe Weapon Systems (Aerospace Fighter) – United Mechanics LLC
OB Finmark – Provincial capital of the Finmark Province – Roe Weapon Systems Shipyard (Warships)
Roe Weapon Systems Shipyard (Warships) – Finmark Air & Space Academy
OB Timbuktu – Provincial capital of the Timbuktu Province – Diplass Technologies (BattleMech)
OB Erdvynn – Provincial capital of the Erdvynn Province – Diplass Technologies (BattleMech)
Commonwealth Military Bundeswehr – Sub-agencies
Army Department
Navy Department
Aerospace Force Department
Signals Defense
Defense Acquisition
Defense Criminal Investigative Service
National Security Agency
Defense Information Systems
Defense Investigative-Intelligence Service
Defense Logistics
Defense Mapping and Stellar Cartography
Defense Special Weapons and Services
Defense Research and Development
Engineering
Defense Services Education and University
Defense Health and Welfare
House Forces Liaison Department.
Defense Mercenary Relations (Liaison Branch)
Commonwealth Heer (Army)
The Land based combat arm of the Lyran military encompassing all regular and reserve ground forces.
The Heer is composed of a numerous corps, sub-commands, mercenaries and reserve units: Sub-agencies include …
Combat Arms Branches
• BattleMech – all BattleMech vehicles.
• Armored – all combat vehicles.
• VTOL and Aviation – all VTOL and Aviation combat and non-combat vehicles.
• Infantry – all regular infantries.
• Special Forces – all special forces infantries.
• Air Defense – air defense vehicles and Radar.
• Field Artillery – all artillery.
• Combat Engineers.
BattleMech – Ground units of the LCAF were classified and equipped depending upon their role.
Uhlans
A main assault Regiment – a single assault battalion with the remaining two battalions consists of heavy-to-assault.
Grenadiers
Composed of heavy-to-assault – primary purpose, engages well equipped enemies.
Fusiliers
The core of most Corps – consisting of medium-to-heavy.
Dragoons (Cavalry)
Composed of Medium – primary purpose rapid advance and break through formations.
Hussars
Composed of light-to-medium – primary purpose rapid support (majority – missile support).
Lancers
Composed of light-to-medium – rapid penetration (majority – Laser).
Light Horse
Composed of light – primary reconnaissance.
Armored – Ground units of the LCAF were classified and equipped depending upon their role.
Tank Classifications
JagdCheetah – Reconnaissance Vehicles
JagdLeopard – Cavalry Vehicles
JagdJaguar – Infantry APC Vehicles
JagdPanther ¬– Infantry Support Vehicles
JagdPanzer – Support Combat Vehicles
JagdTiger – Main Combat Vehicles
Specialist – eg. Engineers – Armored recovery vehicles, Armored Vehicle Launched Bridge etc
Artillery – Ground units of the LCAF were classified and equipped depending upon their role.
Artillery Classifications
SRM Artillery
LRM Artillery
Anti-Aircraft Guns
Self-propelled Artillery
Howitzer Artillery
Siege Artillery
VTOL – Ground units of the LCAF were classified and equipped depending upon their role.
VTOL Classifications
Alruna Class – Multi-role Combat – eg Apache
Eir Class – Utility – eg Black Hawk (Combat & MASH)
Geiravor Class – Multi-mission Tiltrotor – eg. Osprey
Gondul Class – Heavy lift –eg Chinook
Herja Class – Combat Conventional Fighter –eg Harrier
Infantry – Ground units of the LCAF were classified and equipped depending upon their role.
Infantry Classifications
Reconnaissance
Commando
Ranger
Infantry
Heavy Infantry
Jump Infantry
Forest Infantry
Desert Infantry
Alpine Infantry
Mechanized Infantry
Motorized Infantry
Multi-purpose canine (MPC)
Mounted Infantry
Military Police (MP)
Urban Security
Marines
Engineers – Demolition etc.
Commonwealth Luftwaffe (Aerospace and Conventional)
The aerospace and conventional combat arm of the Lyran military encompassing …
Combat Arms
• Attack – Close air support and ground attack.
• Bomber – Long range strike missions.
• Special Electronic – Early Warning and Control Information Environment – electronic warfare and jamming, psychological operations and communications, airborne command post, ground targeting radar, range control, communications relay ….
• Fighter – small, fast and maneuverable craft used for aerospace-to-aerospace combat (aerospace superiority) + dual-role as fighter-bombers.
• Reconnaissance – planetary reconnaissance – monitoring enemy activity …
• Observation – close reconnaissance – report tactical information concerning composition and disposition of forces.
Combat Support
• Transport – Deliver military equipment and infantry.
• Search and Rescue – in or out of combat operations.
• Multi-mission – special support for ‘global’ special operations – infiltration, exfiltration, resupply ….
• Trainer – used to train pilots, combat systems, aircrew personnel …
• Utility – conventional craft used for what is required at the time …
• VIP Staff Transport – craft used for the transportation of VIPs.
Special Services
• Planetary Defense – systems utilized for planetary defense against an approaching enemy fleet …
Luftwaffe units are assigned to a specific combat team, naval vessel, or act within their own specialist units as required.
Commonwealth Military – Kampfdienste (Combat Services)
The other branches of the Lyran military encompassing …
Combat Support Branches
• Signals – Responsible for reliability of battlefield communication.
• Intelligence – Responsible for all Intelligence.
• Mapping – Topography and Stellar Cartography services.
• Security – Responsible for security, Military Police, Commissars.
Combat Service Support
• Base Establishment – facilities on land, or in space.
• Adjutant General’s – serve at an organizational level to plan, develop, and operate the personnel management support systems – life cycle functions – personnel requisition, reassignment, evaluation, promotion, awards and decorations, reenlistment, casualty reporting, strength accounting, replacement operations, and Mercenary Relations.
• Finance – Responsible for Unit Finance
• Ordinance - munitions.
• Quartermaster - Supply Service / Transport Command – Overseas organization and assignment of supplies
• Transportation Service / Transport Command – oversees the organization and assignment of Jump-Ships and Drop-Ships assigned to ground forces.
Special Services
• Criminal Investigation, Judge Advocate General.
• Medical – Responsible for Battlefield triage – and after battle care – veterinary, dental, nursing, etc …
• Education – Responsible for education requirements.
• Chaplain – All recognized religions.
Commonwealth Kriegsmarine (Navy)
The Space based combat arm of the Lyran military encompassing all fleet and merchantman forces.
Prior to the SLDF Amaris Coup d’état Campaign secret construction facilities were maintained throughout the Lyran Commonwealth as repair facilities – the true scope of Kriegsmarine remains a national security issue.
Combat Arms Branches
• Warships – all warships.
• Jump-ships – all merchantman jump-ships.
• Drop-ships – all combat and merchantman drop-ships.
• Space-stations – all military space stations.
• VIP Staff Transport – Dropships used for the transportation of VIPs.
• Aviation – all fighter and reconnaissance aerospace.
• Marines – all regular combat marine infantry.
• Special Forces – all Naval special forces.
• Combat Engineers.
Navy – Squadron / Fleet
Line
Primary offensive formation – Carrier and two battleships protected by multiple cruisers and frigates
Pursuit
Rapid formation – primarily fast jeep-carriers, battlecruisers, and cruisers.
Escort
Achieve space superiority whilst attached to army transport / logistics fleets - primarily frigates and destroyers
Reconnaissance
Intelligence gathering - primarily frigates and destroyers (with the occasional cruiser) equipped with the most advanced sensory equipment and reconnaissance aerospace assets.
Transport
Dedicated to mass transport – logistics and ground forces.
Exploration / Survey
Discovering new ship routes / worlds – large cruiser equipped with multiple dropships, advanced sensory equipment, and reconnaissance aerospace assets - designed to undertake missions lasting months or years if necessary.
Doctrine
The LCAF operational doctrine focuses on achieving high combat performance. It emphasizes adaptability, flexibility and decentralized decision making.
Officers and NCOs were selected based on character and trained towards decisive combat leadership. Positive combat performance and efficiency is desired (A high combat efficiency score).
Tactics
The military strength of the LCAF is managed through mission-based tactics (Fuhren mit Auftrag) (“leading by mission”), and an almost proverbial discipline.
Where the emphasis is on the outcome of a mission rather than the specific means of achieving it
Once an operation begins, whether offensive or defensive, speed in response to changing circumstances is considered more important than careful planning and coordination of new plans.
The LCAF military is seen as a high-tech army since new technologies that were introduced influences its development of tactical doctrine.
Organization
Front-line Regular Forces
Regional Reserve – Assigned to a given defensive zone (or Verteidigungzone) of several worlds, a Regional Reserve is under the direct command of the provincial or theatre commander. Regional Reserves mimic the structure of an Regimental Combat Team. They also, generally, have their own Dropships.
Planetary Reserve – generally garrison forces, are almost conventional armor, VTOL, fighters, infantry and artillery regiments. Though influential and wealthy planets may supplement these with ‘Mech forces.
All reserve forces are required to answer to the LCAF.
Noble families – Are allowed to maintain their own private forces and are subject to strict control by the House Forces Liaison Department.
Military Academy Training Units – Tied to a specific military academy, these units are designed to provide their Corps of Cadets battlefield experience before transferring to a front-line unit. Equipment for these units is procured through the Academy.
Mercenary Forces – Hired to supplement existing forces as and when required. Liaison will be required to assist in integrating the unit into the LCAF and to provide some level of control.
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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Karagin
08/04/21 10:15 AM
70.118.172.64
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I even offered up the advice from three different websites on how to write good or less pit-felled alternate history, he doesn't want to hear anything other than how great his stuff is and while some things could maybe be useful for plot ideas, the rest is a mess that he doesn't want to see or be told.
I am all for someone defending their ideas, but eventually one has to see that if the same issues are coming up with each take or idea then that should tell you that you need to rethink things or flesh them out more.
Again, highly recommend Requiem that you read the information on the websites I posted, they will help you out a lot. I can attest to that, the information is very well presented. Also, you need to understand the basics of alternate history. You can make changes, BUT once you make a change everything going forward changes.
The Empire Aflame setting offers you a new canvas, it also gives you the part that you have brought up, about the SLDF not leaving, so right there you can scrap everything else plug in your stuff, then you have a chance to go forward without all the baggage of Clans and Succession Wars, since the setting is already done to support the SLDF staying. All you would be changing is every forward from 2784 forward who be new cloth and thus your version of events can be used.
Then all the minor things you feel need to be changed can be changed and done with plot devices, like amazing breakthroughs in technology, etc...
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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ghostrider
08/04/21 11:46 AM
45.51.181.83
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Comparing someone writing their own independent story, and someone writing for an established story is foolish.
Freestyle writing means you create the universe of it's own accord, not take one and throw in what you feel is the only viable solution, and try to continue with that universes past/future. Use what you want, but don't continue with what is canon afterwards. Events that lead up to the future are not there anymore.
These changes create new events, so the LC for instance, may well be a new nation. But yet, the reality of this has not set in. The SL would NOT give up Defiance, which is the LCs main source of mechs. The SL doesn't fall, then the LC would not get Defiance. So their entire history/future is changed beyond trying to hold to canon. If the LC takes Defiance, there will be war as well as the LC having a MAJOR advantage over the other houses.
Also, with their economic might, which may change do to changes in the story, why wouldn't they have build far more factories if they didn't experience the devastation of the 1st war?
Trying to say the canon story line, including the names of the major characters, while changing the way things went up to that point is the issue. Create a new line of leaders. Victor, Katherine, Yvonne, Peter, and Arthur Steiner-Davion would never have existed without specific chain of events. Hanse would probably have never been born. Worlds and even the nations of the IS would probably never have been born. The abundance of military units would have had those independent nations resist far longer and may well still be separate in 3025 and beyond.
With the SL alive, Skye may well have had the ability to break off as the SL would have backed their claim to independence. The DC may well have had the same thing happen. Internal issues verses separation of nations has major issues.
Stick lipstick on a pig and calling it a super model doesn't work.
It is the GM and gamers that decide how many forces they fight. This is true, but does not follow the real logic in the land of abundance. Your unit will not just fact one similar sized unit in a fight between RCTs. It is more likely that those units on your flanks will bring their battle into your area, just trying to outmaneuver each other. And fighter runs on ground targets? They don't just appear over the target area. They also don't just disapper after the run.
You keep wanted logic in the game and story, yet keep removing it from both.
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ghostrider
08/04/21 12:04 PM
45.51.181.83
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A couple of points that have come to mind.
Partisan units are normally citizens that come together to resist invaders. They normally have someone that was part of the military, but not active soldiers. You pushed them for the DC during the clan invasion, yet seemed to forget them while dealing with the periphery war.
The SLDF had to watch just how badly they destroyed the periphery during that war. They could not afford to have atrocities upon atrocities being linked to their actions. They were supposed to be bringing the periphery back into the union. Each time you nuked a city or planet, that makes those you are fighting more fanatical as well as increasing discord back in the TH and other houses. And each house opposite of the IS would use that as a means to force more concessions from the TH. How could say the LC, DC stand by while the SLDF was causing the Turan Concordat into a glowing ember? Politics would demand they allow the TC to threaten the CC, FS at the time. It also gave then more power to push for large militaries, as they could not in good faith have the low count when the SLDF was so eager to just destroy a nation.
A simple party of the brass for the local invaders that has a few of the local ladies show up, and by the end of the night, they kill even just one officer. How much different would the local SLDF forces do things? Say they took out Kerensky, or DeChavilier? Even having the information that the officers were cheating on their spouses would destroy some offensives. Blackmail would help stop a lot of issues as well.
The lady may well be looking for revenge from having her family, maybe children, being killed by the local officers.
So by saying that you would just attack civilians that struck out against your invasion shows how little you really though thru the scenario. And with it, you show the basis of the clans thinking. Wipe it all out if they resist. At least the clans gave people the ability to challenge them back. Not much hope, but better then an invader just mowing people down.
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Requiem
08/04/21 09:26 PM
124.184.171.41
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Karagin, you have offed advice as to these three websites and yet I am highly sceptical – an individual’s writing style is similar to a fingerprint – unique.
After writing vast documents for academia this may have impacted my style …
So can you please show me the error of my ways. I have created a forum - Alt History: Events regarding the Amaris Coup d’état Campaign, can you use these rules, re-write, and prove to me these rules can produce a superior document.
Show me how my ideas need to flesh them out more through this document please.
Ghostrider,
Quote:
but don't continue with what is canon afterwards. Events that led up to the future are not there anymore.
Can one drop in the river change the course of the river – or is the river set to travel a set path … ?
Sorry but acquiescence to what I can and cannot do – conformity to others views – when I am the dreamer writing the dream, is this acceptable?
Consider Star Treck DS9 – Far Beyond the Stars Episode – Should Sisko have conformed in his writing?
Time can still be linier it does not have to produce a hard tangent just because the butterfly in the Amazon changed the beat of its wings … as the writer it is my choice to choose – tangent or no tangent to creating a chain of events at a macro vs micro as to direction of the world can create two events at the same time – people, changing friendships, and circumstances can affect people to change your key character individuals – the world around them, however, can still go on the same or vice versa
It is the freedom of the writer to choose their story – logic in the story is important – and yet the battle could equally move in another direction rather than disappearing so the battle on your flank never occurred – it is at the discretion of the GM / players as to the parameters they want.
In all war settings there will be partisans and there will be militias – the aim however is when to include them in the story and when to exclude them. Most civilians playing soldier are just going to cause an incident that will end in tragedy, the question is does their inclusion within your story add value to the story of your main characters – can it prove a pivotal point in their development (plot Vs sub-plot), which again is at the discretion of the writer / GM.
Canon SLDF … atrocities and who performed them is an interesting concept, and yet just saying the enemy performed such actions is a complete over simplification … consider the bombing of WW2, especially at the end with Dresden – was this really necessary? Then there are stories that are covered up US soldiers during the battle of the bulge were not only being having war crimes committed upon them (Germans killing GI POWs) at the same time US soldiers were committing war crimes (US GIs Killing German POWs) –
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chenogne_massacre#:~:text=According%20to%20his%20sources%2C%20US,odd%20German%20med%20%5Bsic%5D.
consider the entry in Patton’s war diary – January 4, 1945.
As the writer such actions by both sides needs to be considered – Amaris’ forces killed off 95% of the entire SLDF …. https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Star_League_Defense_Force “At its height the SLDF was the largest military force known to man, composed of over 100 million soldiers”, that’s just 95 million soldiers … the carnage wrought by both sides must have been beyond all description, both sides must have accepted M.A.D. last man standing rule, industrializes slaughter, as the only way to win …
This is at the prerogative of the writer to include or exclude … to follow cannon or to abandon it altogether.
Quote:
A simple party of the brass
This is at the whim of the GM / Writer – Kerensky of De Chavilier may be dead, but they can be replaced by another person and the war can still have the same outcome. History will now just use this new character to direct the flow of time along the same path … or yes you can choose to move it in a completely different direction … again this is at the whim of the GM / writer
Quote:
So by saying that you would just attack civilians that struck out against your invasion shows how little you really though thru the scenario.
No, not so, does this scenario add value to the story or not? This again is at the discretion of the GM / writer …. That is unless you want a choose your own adventure book where after a turn of events you can choose to go to either page 53 or 74 based upon what you, the reader, believe should happen next.
Quote:
you show the basis of the clans thinking. Wipe it all out if they resist.
Then may I suggest you write your own version or just accept cannon can never change and no matter what your group achieves in your game the wider world will always be the same – and if you end up in a historical battle you are fated to end up just as history predicts – no changes allowed.
As a writer cannot I create my history as I desire it to be? How would many authors books would have evolved the way they did if they had to conform to the desires of their readers as to the direction of the plot every time?
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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ghostrider
08/05/21 12:14 AM
45.51.181.83
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Yes. One drop in a river can change the flow. Something as small as a non important person, like a janitor that survives a nuke that destroys a town, but dies later will do nothing. A huge drop, like removing nukes in general will change the course of the river dramatically. The story is made so the SL dies because of events leading up to the Amaris war, and afterwards. To change any of those events will change what happens. It may delay or hasten the destruction of the SL. Amaris may well be left out of history as the war starts sooner or removes him from being in the position to do what he did.
With the alt, you are not changing weither the First lord wore blue or red. You are changing the entire chain of events so the canon outcome is not possible. You pretty much caused an avalanche and blocked the entire river. Broken the banks so the river changes where it goes. Spin it all you want, the end result is the same. Logic does not follow canon afterwards.
It is the freedom of the writer to choose their story
And yet you continue to bag on the canon writers as you say their story is wrong? This is another basis of why things don't work. I don't like the way some things turned out in the canon story, but I am not demanding things be changed to my views.
So partisans would never be allowed to fight against the SLDF in anyway they could, but the DC can? That is inconsistent logic at it's finest. And you missed the point. Partisans are normally not active military. I really believe you need to stop skimming the materials and actually read the context presented. It is becoming more and more clear that you aren't bothering with the actual content of statements.
The changes presented will not allow the world to continue on in the original storyline after they happen. Not killing RIchard would negate the entire reason Kerensky did what he did. Can is only set up when things are not that huge. Having an argument between the two might well let the world continue on, but say Richard fires Kerensky? Not going to keep going along the story line. The logic and reasons change. To even attempt it would open up more logic holes, which is what you continue to use in order to change the story.
atrocities and who performed them is an interesting concept, and yet just saying the enemy performed such actions is a complete over simplification
Again, a lack of reading and comprehension of what is actually said is showing thru. I said both sides continued to do crap. The thing I did say is the SLDF needs to avoid looking like the ravaging hordes, as they have to answer to the TH and houses. Following the laws as much as possible is where they are at a disadvantage. Their own high moral grounds did not stop them from using nukes against the periphery or Amaris. And they did have a piece of paper saying that nuking things was illegal. So that point doesn't hold up in the logic of the game.
Funny how war crimes is coming up, yet you want to sterilize the entire game of such things. Battles will almost always have someone doing something bad. Mechs stepping on people, as well as infantry using flame throwers and such. I would suggest a real sit down and think about that before suggesting the Batchall fighting style that would be needed to remove all of these. We know more then a few leaders would ignore the rules of the challenge.
You think that if Kerensky was replaced the SLDF would still have gone in tooth and nail against Amaris? You think the same tactics would be used? I seriously doubt that. It may well have stopped the brutal invasion of the periphery before Amaris had the chance to make his move. Or it may well have caused it to get far worse. To suggest the same outcome would happen no matter who was in charge is failing to adhere to logic. The event may well have caused the entire SLDF to go into a civil war on it's own, as commanders would fight for position in the new chain of command.
This is especially true if you want Kerensky to be a social general.
The thread posted have not shown the alt to be anything other then saying canon is wrong because you don't like it, and your vision is the only viable solution.
I agree with more then a few things about changing it, I just do not agree that having canon remain in anything is viable or logical.
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Karagin
08/05/21 12:37 AM
70.118.172.64
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If you make changes to canon then you can not have the same outcomes as what the powers that be have told us is canon.
Prime Example, the scenario pack for the BATTLE OF TYWCROSS allows you to play out the events of the Great Gash, including having Kai Allard on the battlefield.
So back in the late 90s a bunch of us ran this battle. The Clan players did something we didn't expect, they didn't cheat, they used the scenario rules to get them a win. What they did was move along the entire right side edge of the map for them, my team left. The game was over in like 6 turns because we aka the Inner Sphere side, weren't able to move to stop them. Why? Because we thought they would come out and fighting like drunken brawlers who think they are best in the word etc...no, the players used a better plan than we had.
So we tried it again, this time NO moving along with the edge hexes. Fast forward, the battle is really close, things are about even as far as points and such for killed mechs and battlearmor, etc...then the person running the Hatchetman with Allard in gets hit center torso, now we have always played with the floating critical for that magical hit location of snake eyes aka a 2.
No issue, the Clan player rolls and gets the crit in the head. Okay, not a big deal, location is rolled, and...boom cockpit is hit. So Kia is now dead. Or is he?
If I was writing the events out BASED on the gameplay then yeah he's dead and all that we know about him doing all the super cool stuff in the rest of canon is now gone.
But let's say he is only wounded, loses both his legs, doesn't mean he can't still help Victor but again the changes to his nature, his abilities, and what he pushes himself to do are not going to be the same Kia Allard canon tell us about. That is what you need to understand. Anything you change that is a big picture change causes other things to change.
Go read the BRING THE JUBILEE and you will see what I am talking about Or go read FOR WANT OF A NAIL, they both show you what happens when the minor at the time but major changes can do to things down the road.
We all have our own ideas on how the backstory could be better or tweaked to make more sense and some things that they say happened even with retcons still don't make a lot of sense. IMVHO believe with the forced Jihad craptastic storyline and Dark Age monster, the PTB at the time tried too hard to tie up every loose plot thread or thrown away line to keep folks from asking for things about those fluff points. And that backfired in their faces badly. Having throw-away lines or fluff points are things that made Battletech different. Not everything needed an official answer or reason.
That left stuff up to the players and their groups to come up with. As said before, the background story has bugs, it's not perfect, but it does offer a lot of things for folks to use. So, if things are what you want, fine, make changes, but understand that those changes will affect what happens from that point forward.
IF the SLDF doesn't leave the Inner Sphere or does leave but is three times smaller than what it was in canon, that means the Clans won't be the invaders in 3048-3050. Now it doesn't mean there won't be a war or an invader, it means the forces will not be the Clans. This is just an example.
We keep trying to help you get a better understanding of this stuff and I agree with Ghostrider, you need to read the material in the canon books and understand it so when you make the changes you know what is going away and the why can be explained so it makes sense. What is so hard for you to grasp about this part?
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Karagin
08/05/21 12:45 AM
70.118.172.64
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Requiem, here is a thread, https://www.sarna.net/forums/showflat.php?Number=53054 , that we aka the folks that post here or did at one point talk about what we would like to see or offer better ideas for future events of the BT universe. All offer things, and if you skip over the side remarks, you will see that each of us had similar ideas or at least ones that were close and some had far out in left field ideas. What we did was offer things that made sense or at least kept things on the playing field in side the ballpark.
A lot of my ideas for my Terran Rebellion and no ROTS ideas grew out of these threads and talks with many of the posters. Take the advice of someone who has fought the battles here and seen that the majority of the folks will offer good ideas and things to help you get your ideas out better and logcial and make sense.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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