Requiem
07/31/21 01:27 PM
124.184.171.41
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The beginning of the end for Star League ...
“Like all children I believed in the Star League … as Archon I found Lyran space a gilded cage … we have become slaves to the Cameron Court and their edicts …. NO MORE!”
“We will abolish this Treaty one way or another!”
“The situation with the 2650 Edict is a symptom of lager problem - the Star League is dying - and I think it deserves to die!”
“I look on the League with skepticism. I see a society that is in deep denial about itself, we are talking about a society that prides itself on culture, tradition, honor, and integrity”.
“When was the last Commander-in chief of the Star League Defense Force or First Lord you could respect?
Corruption and incompetence at the highest level … We have been willing to accept people who are corrupt, Michael is just the latest in a long line, as the Terran controlled SLDF utilizes stand over tactics like a common thug over all the Great Houses to preserve their power ….”
“First, I am going to demand equality of arms – and then let us see their response …they may attempt to limit our militaries size, but nothing restricts technological advancement.”
“My Generals, no matter what, I want you to initiate new surveys - find me new worlds where we can establish multiple hidden military industrial facilities, research-and-development facilities and training facilities - especially naval warship yards – there we will build and keep our new technologically advanced hidden army in the shadows … and even if it takes hundreds of years or more - when the League cracks we must be in a position to initiate the Anschluss between our shadow army and the regular armed forces that are in the open …. We will take back the Commonwealth from the League … the ground-work of which must begin now.”
“Archon Sarah Steiner-Dinesen whist discussing the Council Edict of 2650 with her General Staff.”
<NT: At this point in time, this scene is being repeated in every Great House and Periphery State throughout the Inner Sphere. Paradoxically Council Edit 2650 as well as the authoritarian way it was introduced, rather than limiting each Houses’ military can be said to be the start of a new arms race and the end of the golden age of the Star League.>
For the Lyran Commonwealth the Anschluss was initiated - shadow units became formally operational as both the War within the Periphery States and the subsequent Amaris’ Coup d’état Campaign was initiated … and with it all hope of retaining the Star League.
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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Requiem
08/01/21 10:26 AM
124.184.171.41
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The Age of War and the Star League
There is not anything particularly new about the convulsions during the age of war. They speak of the primal, more profound truth, of the Great Houses – cultural identity – where multiple ‘communities’ are engaged in a constant struggle to deny each other’s identity.
In truth, regarding the Star League, is that it initially was an agreement between nations concerning economic and national security; The Star League Defense Force was to be established whereby each member state agreed to an active participation and contribution to the defense of any-and-all Inner Sphere member in the event of a crisis through their combined proxy defense force.
The Star League was proposed to be parliament of equals where communities could respect the differences in their cultural identity and to actively seek a less aggressive solutions through communication.
Prior to its birth, however, it was betrayed by Ian Cameron – and subsequently his descendants – as his title as First Lord, ‘primus inter pares’ (first among equals) was never meant to be a representation of a dictator, it was supposed be used ironically by the Great House Lords with a higher status as a form of respect and camaraderie.
The fall of the Star League were due a million small steps in the wrong direction with no one to curtail the growing power of the First Lord and her/his influence over the Star League Defense Force, the Legislature, and the judiciary – as well as the ideological schism that my way is the only way and if you do not support me you are against me – the ideals of coming to a fair and equitable compromise was over!
The end of the Golden age of the Star League refers when the ‘First Lords’ utilized the Star League Defense Force as their personal police force and not for the ideals they were created to represent, but for the petty whims of the Cameron family and the Hegemony who now viewed themselves above that of all others, as the pre-eminent state – in so doing their wish of proving that they, as First Lord and First State, were de jure superior to that of the others was fulfilled!
It also set in motion an inevitability that war was inevitable – the underlying cracks within the Star League Society were now visible due to class discrimination – ‘the tree of liberty must refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants’ (Thomas Jefferson).
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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Karagin
08/01/21 08:39 PM
70.118.172.64
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Wehrmacht = German: “defense power”. So that is what you are calling this Corps? It can also translate as Armed Force or Forces. I doubt very much that word would have changed even in the 3025 settings.
Why not drop it and go with Blitz or Kreig, playing on that word to give it some zap and coolness?
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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ghostrider
08/02/21 02:03 AM
45.51.181.83
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You need to rewrite the history of the LC, as the military was always having issues with the social generals. Renaming crap isn't gonna cut it.
The entire military should be social generals get your families killed. Featuring the famous Atlas driving morons that tell their Steiner scout lance they can take on a full RCT of the enemy without any sort of back up while they go to have diner with the local nobility.
Had the LC kept competent leaders, the succession wars would have been cut short, even to the point of the 3rd war not being necessary, as the LC would have removed a good chunk of the DC, though they might have actually unified the FWL, since they would have been losing as well.
Maybe you could even have had someone other then the Cameron line in charge of the SL, and removed the entire history beyond 2750. But that would mean having to break completely from canon, which seems to be against the Alt history line.
I keep saying this, and yet it never happens.
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Requiem
08/02/21 03:22 AM
124.184.171.41
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Karagin,
Thank you for your suggestion – as this is initially set in 2650, however, – due to the Edict of 2650 – and continues to the start of the Amaris’ Coup d’état Campaign - 2766 to 2767 - I believe the word Wehrmact is apt (defence power) in that the LCAF is being rebuilt (in secret) in the event force is required to evict the SLDF from Lyran space …
Ghostrider,
This is the Alt History: Wehrmact 2766 - it is not the Canon LCAF pre 4th Succession War …
And speaking of Social Generals you do realize that the SLDF was far more guilty of utilizing Social Generals than the LCAF ever were – as demonstrated that despite each army’s size within the Periphery States prior to Amaris’ Coup d’état Campaign nearly every single Army suffered 50% casualties … as well as all Commanders in chief of the SLDF …
Thus indicating a leadership who really do not understand what they are doing …. ie. social generals from the TH ... especially when you consider the size and the equipment of periphery states compared to that of the SLDF and their Royal units!
I would also like to state that calling a unit Royal also indicates as to the pretentious nature of the TH nobility and the First Lord.
As for all other militaries …. Humanity has adopted the principal of professional military and professional commanders for how many centuries by 2766 so the idea that they would take a step back is lunacy of the highest order.
And yet I have already discussed the reanimation of the TH post Amaris war in that of something vastly different when, with the removal of Kerensky, the SLDF remains within the SL
Sorry to say but if anyone wants a long Amaris civil war the only rational thing is to rewrite the Canon – too many black holes for it to be considered a viable history ….
Kerensy should be just another minor character all said and done …
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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ghostrider
08/02/21 12:04 PM
45.51.181.83
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Using history, the example of the Revolutionary war when the U.S. broke free of England, some of the best militaries can be brought down by having their protocols not being able to respond to different tactics.
The concept of stand in a line, fire, then kneel as those behind you fire met up with the hide and shoot from behind trees and walls and such is a prime example.
As the future used far more powerful weapons, it is far easier for someone to blow up an entire barracks, with a bomb or missile, making it more deadly. With things like lasers, sniping people without the sound of the shot should be a thing. Oddly enough, the game really never seems to get away from slug throwers in this regard.
The SLDF was fighting in the periphery against a very fluid force that could strike and retreat as they knew the terrain, while the SLDF didn't.
The fact that the SLDF needed to use local labor for building and such made it easier for the defenders to gain intel data from the SLDF. The occupation roll is a very difficult one to do much with.
On return to the TH, they had to deal with the fact that their own defense buildings were in enemy hands. This does mean the SLDF had some intel on them, but in this case, were made of better materials with better defensive positions.
Now something that seems to be overlooked. The fact that hundreds of worlds possibly thousands in the periphery were all trying to be subdued. So 5000 regiments isn't as much as you might think when dealing with that. And as stated, not all of them were sent to war. You had so much that you HAD to guard, that would have cut deeply into your reserves. The fleet had to guard as many transports in and out of the periphery as well as important worlds in the IS, and the TH. So again, the numbers are not that overwhelming when you consider this.
With invading the TH, even 3 to one odds isn't going to guarantee a victory, especially when Amaris was willing to use nukes to remove the SLDFs numeric advantage. The SLDF had used nukes to dig out the defenders, as any really large group would be a sure fire target for nukes.
And with all of this, any nukes used, meant even if people survived the blast, the radiation they absorbed would probably kill them quickly (if lucky). Amaris would have used any means to try and stop the SLDF from advancing, which would also include Bio and chemical weapons, though I haven't seen a large mention of this in the story line.
Compound this with trying to avoid destroying the entire infrastructure in place made it even harder to advance. The factories would be a large thing you would want to avoid destroying, but in the end, I don't see how they could do more then just trying to limit damage.
But this light touch means lives lost from it. Now add to this research facilities as well as the defenses that were in place to prevent the houses from attacking, and it all leads to the same thing.
So many lives lost.
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Karagin
08/02/21 12:26 PM
70.118.172.64
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I am starting to get the hint that he is posting his stuff so we write his version of things for him.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Requiem
08/02/21 09:01 PM
124.184.171.41
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Quote:
The SLDF was fighting in the periphery against a very fluid force that could strike and retreat as they knew the terrain, while the SLDF didn't.
Problem with this is that
First, the SLDF have Warships in orbit or should have command of the sky or have vehicles (eg. drones) thus making terrain pointless as they can provide detailed topography maps as required …
Second, how long have the SLDF posted their units upon Periphery worlds? - Since the Reunification War – so the idea that the SLDF do not know the terrain sounds a little absurd.
Quote:
The fact that the SLDF needed to use local labor for building and such made it easier for the defenders to gain intel data from the SLDF.
These bases have been there since the Reunification War – also they would have been built by the SLDF engineering units – just as all other hidden bases throughout the IS were created …
Periphery worlds …
Canopus … approximately 80 worlds
consisting of 22 conventional and 108 Mech Regiments and 22 naval vessels
SLDF 17th Army
XLIII Corps – 72 Regiments
XLVIII Corps – 73 Regiments
LXXII Corps – 73 Regiments Total 218 Regiments
Taurian … approximately 75 worlds
Outworlds … approximately 136 worlds
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On return to the TH, they had to deal with the fact that their own defense buildings were in enemy hands.
So? The SLDF would have intimate knowledge of all these bases – if attacked with all alacrity this would diminish any time for Amaris’ forces to modify them …
Then there is the point this is a Blitzkrieg – all that is required is to establish a naval blockage of every world held by Amaris' Forces (secondary and tertiary priority worlds) with the exception of Terra (THE Primary Target) – once Amaris is in custody all other forces can be dealt with one world at a time – force or reason can be used request their surrender at this point.
The idea that you HAVE to clear every world to reach a destination with regards to space warfare is outmoded and illogical – if your fleet can reach it you can attack it - if your fleet is large enough you can blockage the majority or all of the worlds Amaris has forces on - thus forcing his fleet away from Terra if he makes a blunder this great!
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Star_League_Defense_Force
By 2764 The SLDF had over 15,000 regiments and just as many warships, Jumpships and Dropships ….
The Idea that a blockade cannot be established on every world Amaris forces have a presence on – whist driving upon Terra becomes ridiculous.
In addition utilizing a blockade strategy will have the added bonus of reducing lives lost!
The SLDF has close to or if not more than 5,000 warships – they have exited the Periphery and are now attacking the TH en mass so yes there should be available forces to conduct a massive invasion into the TH once all 20 armies reach their jump off points to invade the TH with all due alacrity!
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Rim_Worlds_Army
By April 2765 – Amaris has approximately 270 warships
Even if the SLDF attacked as per this page – 2,250 warships this is still 8:1 so will this guarantee victory?
also this would also require the RWR to now have no warships at all as Amaris has taken every single one to the TH ...
Nukes – again blockading worlds will mean NO nukes on the majority of worlds (no ground invasions) – only Terra as Amaris attempts to defend himself – once Amaris is in custody their reason for fighting is OVER so how many will surrender and how many will keep up the war?
If they use Nukes the SLDF will use orbital bombardment upon all their fortresses!
5 minutes later there wont be any Amaris forces on that world!
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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ghostrider
08/02/21 09:10 PM
45.51.181.83
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I believe that has been true the entire time he was posting the Alt threads. And yet they all seem to continue the logic holes of canon, which it doesn't seem like the Alt wants to move away from. There is no way to rewrite the game history and use the same story that has become the canon line.
The sterilized version just does not have enough in reality to even begin to sound right. I don't like the idea that WMDs are used like they are, but that is something that humans have done their entire history of warfare. Even the midevil ages, WMD such as plague was used in sieges. Sending over disintegrating livestock to sicken the defenders was done. There is much more, but not a good topic.
Saying that a single piece of paper would stop it in the future isn't going to happen. Nukes should have been banned before the TA had started colonizing the stars, and yet nothing. Pirates have always been a bane to all, yet they continue to operate without much of an issue.
A war game will not be able to remove these factors, as they are what drives players to become warriors and try to punish those that use such tactics. Hate to say it, but it is the back bone of all stories. Most deal with treachery that happens to their family or friends.
It was written a long while ago, that understanding of the game wasn't a strong suit. Now, after so long, even the history of the SL was found at fault and had to be rewritten. That was stated a while back, and only now is it being looked into.
So rewrite the game story means starting over from the time the K-F drive was being made is necessary. Then go from there.
And if you really look deep enough into it, before that time is flawed and inconsistent as well.
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ghostrider
08/02/21 09:36 PM
45.51.181.83
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The reconned information screws up the history of the game even more. Drones did not exist when the story was started. Terrain is being used in a larger context then just what you see. Camoflage covers hide a lot as well as tunnels and such.
Also, being briefed on terrain is nothing like knowing it from being there. I know this as being a bus driver for 7 years, when you ask a driver about a route, they tell you to turn at the green building. But they forget to tell you that is at night, so the blue building with a yellow light shining on it means the green building doesn't exist in the day light.
This is not even including having the defenders changing things around, like changing the name of streets, or saying their target is further away, or behind them. Yes, the systems should have a map, and even one that hasn't been modified by the enemy.
We all know the sensors in the game are only a little better then eyeballs. The high tech spy cameras didn't exist in Battletech at that time.
The idea that every single unit is sent out to invade the periphery shows thru again. Those units shown for the SLDF were for the REGION, not what they had available to attack with. They HAD to guard so many things, it would be lucky to get even a third of those forces into the states. But again, you don't believe in guarding anything, so logic fails.
I guess the concept of nukes being planted anywhere the SLDF were going tends to slip your mind, as you seem to think a target as large as say a division would not entice Amaris to nuke them. But then it seems you think in numbers only. I have 20 units, and you have 4. I should win because I have 16 more units then you do. That isn't how war works. Especially when you have suicide troops ready to die for their leader. Which was the case with Amaris's forces.
So sure. Land all your dropships in one location. One swipe and you no longer have them. Same can be said with the warships. A few stolen shuttles or fighters landing inside and detonating their warheads, even the non nukes will take out a warship from the inside. Detonating the ammo inside of a ship will cause major damage to it.
If they use Nukes the SLDF will use orbital bombardment upon all their fortresses!
That statement shows a lack of any comprehension skills. The ENTIRE war was riddled with nukes being used on both sides. The SLDF used nukes back. And no matter what you might think, mining the approach to a world is far easier then a jump point. You know the enemy will be coming from one way, and having a simple thrust pack, or worse, using normal drones, to bring in those items when the fleet approaches.
Having all those ships does not mean you win automatically.
Simple jumping out of system prevents your victory. Yet to get to me, you have to move towards me. It isn't that hard to set up a few traps, like a mine field, and jump out after your first ships enter the field. Then rinse and repeat elsewhere. No one say I have to engage you the way you want me to. Part of why raiding is a major part of the wars in the game. I hit, and prevent you from hitting back. I can hit other places to, as you never guard anything. So I will take your supplies or at least deny you of them, while you chase down what you think it my main forces. Then force you to have to refight the battles on worlds you left behind, from worlds you didn't touch.
I am not a master strategist or tactician, but I do know war is not a straight up line everyone up and fire until one side dies or surrenders. For someone to even suggest this, means I am not as stupid as I think I am.
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Karagin
08/02/21 09:46 PM
70.118.172.64
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I could see if his Point of Departure was set say prior to the entire Amaris affair happening then, maybe his points would be more valid. That is the trouble with Alternate History stories, one needs to fully understand the actual historical moments they are writing about to make their changes actually fit.
Prime example, in the novel Two Georges, the writers include Richard Nixion, not as a politician but as a used car sales and show him as complete scum, they broke the golden rule, if you are going to show a known figure as less than they are in Original Timeline, you need a why.
That seems to be the case here. Requiem doesn't want to get into the minutia of the characters and their reasons for doing what they did, and he gives us NO need for characters to fill for one of the historical characters not being there. I would advise him to read Harry Turtledove or S.M. Stirling, among others, to get an idea of what should be done for alternate history stories.
Even my one going Alternate Take on the Jihad and post Inner Sphere ala NO Dark Age crap, I have to have a reason why things happen and why certain people or events do not end up being what they were in the canon setting. Hence why I recommended, and still do, the Empire Aflames setting for his stuff. It gives him a pretty open-ended ability to have things happen close to how he wants or even to adjust things as far back as the Amaris War and go forward.
Also, every change he wants to make will have ripples, it would mean that even small changes might not cause an operation to happen as written because one of the primary characters doesn't show up or is dead. Things he isn't taking into account are really killing what could be good ideas for stories or a whole new "realm" of play for some players.
It is like being the GM/DM and you know if you let your players make elite characters the secession are going to be a nightmare for you to run and they will have fun up to a point. That is the problem here, we are getting this new version of canon history without any real reason why. If you go back and look at one of my posts, I talk about how earlier on Kurtia should have pushed on New Avalon and instead let other things distract them, and they lost their chance to sunder the FedSuns. I gave my reason why I thought they should have ignored Robinson and other targets and went for the capital, thus breaking the spirit of Suns and weakening their overall morale. Folks countered with logical reasons as to why they (Kurtia) need to take other worlds first and some countered that taking the capital would have been more of a tactical win but stragetic loss in the long run.
Your last paragraph is a good point. The game leaves out a lot that happens between the Terran Alliance rise and fall, yes we have information but it's not detailed and it leaves a lot of room for what if this or that to be applied. That might be his best bet, to start right after the K-F Drives are putting into use, and go forward. Offering a fully reasoned-out timeline, with characters and NPCs and fluff that gives us a universe that either makes sense with the changes, or is different enough to warrant playing. And one thing, unless he nerfs mechs altogether, he is going to have to have them happen either when they did, or sooner, other wise he might want to switch to Traveller or a GURPS setting.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Karagin
08/03/21 12:41 AM
70.118.172.64
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Given that mechs are the elite force of warriors as far as the majority of the Houses are concerned, the idea that tanks even have the role and use they do is because even the most jaded Mechwarrior knows they can't be everywhere and for the bean counters that are politicians and auditors, tanks are cheaper.
Now having said that, the idea of cool is lost on tanks when you have three-plus tall walking tanks. So the glamor and fame are going to go there.
The Lyrans should and I say should, be able to field a huge amount of armor, that's true, but they won't go that route when mechs have proven themselves to be far more adaptive to the terrain than tanks.
Now could they have a larger tank corps, most certainly, but it won't be at levels we are being told or hinted at nor will prestige and honor and glory be there, thus folks getting the job of tanker or armored crewmember if you want the job title correctly, will be the folks who wash out of mech training, recruits from worlds that have no social pull and folks who join to join and the unlucky conscripted guy or gal from Podunk backwater worlds. And they are easily replaced along with their now dead tank, where as that mechs is not so easily replaced.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Karagin
08/03/21 12:46 AM
70.118.172.64
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Now a good breakdown would be to have 4 regiments of mechs, 6 regiments of armor, and mechanized infantry with regimental support battalion and artillery regiments, all would make up one brigade under a general.
Then take two more of these and then you have a division. Boom, they get the best of all worlds. Simple easy and no major re-writes needed.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Requiem
08/03/21 02:03 AM
124.184.171.41
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Quote:
There is no way to rewrite the game history and use the same story that has become the canon line.
Unless you use canon as the basic template from which to launch the Alt History …
Quote:
WMDs - Saying that a single piece of paper would stop it in the future isn't going to happen.
And yet as GM of your own universe all WMDs can be removed. The Ares, or whatever you want to call it, conventions will remain in place.
As stated, many times, once you allow WMDs in the natural extension of this is to create a ship with one function – World Killers (WK) – and as such fleets of such ships can be established and in so doing turn whole areas of space into dead zones! … So unless you want a game where M.A.D. is your aim why go down this track?
Quote:
even the history of the SL was found at fault and had to be rewritten.
How long has BattleTech existed?
The ability to rewrite should not be that difficult as it has already started in many small aspects that I have made note of previously.
The problem lies in many of the lager game’s history and the key players therein - Kerensky is a good example of this … saying he is a great general and yet creating a backstory whereby his military career only went to Captain and thereafter he was in Administration, where he obtained the top job just because he was aide to the last CIC and he happened to believe in prophetic dreams really does not help with the image of a great general … then when you factor in how the Canon war progressed this confirms the fact he is an political appointee, incompetent and a coward!
So, it is either a Canon re-write (and another 50 years) or do it yourself …
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Drones did not exist when the story was started.
Question what is a Boomerang Spotter Vehicle for?
Also Hi-Scout drone carrier?
Camo - how great is it against Satellites or how about U2 technology?
Quote:
The idea that every single unit is sent out to invade the periphery shows thru again.
The SLDF divided the IS into 20 Army Sectors – there was one army each for each periphery state and of that army the commanders lost half their forces to a periphery army that should be somewhere between a quarter to a half the size of the Star League garrison and never had access to the technology a Royal unit has – hence incompetency on the part of the SLDF commanders should be considered.
Quote:
I guess the concept of nukes being planted anywhere the SLDF were going tends to slip your mind,
First – Ground warfare is obsolete when invading the TH during the Amaris campaign except for Terra – only during the mop up phase post terra is a land campaign really required!
Second – Where are the Patriot batteries, aerospace interceptor fighters, naval units whose scanners should be able to detect such weapons etc ?
Third – the moment you open up with a nuclear strike I open up with an orbital bombardment and from that moment on I open up with an orbital bombardment prior to any invasion …. It just goes round and round
So again you want to turn the game into the most boring game out there start throwing around nukes and see how far that gets the game. There will never be another Mech engagement from then on as any concentration of forces and the SLDF decide to sterilize the entire area!
Shuttles – how many code books will be required for this ?
Mines – as stated how many time before they are supposed to not work within the game – despite the fact when actually included in cannon history and have never been allowed for player use!
Then there is the issue of warship speed and the energy shields they have on the front of them …
Quote:
Simple jumping out of system prevents your victory.
Tactical retreat to where? And then my forces move forward to your next line of defence and the battle commences once more … as stated many, many times mines do not work in the game! Where are they within any TRO? and what happens to debris in the path of an incoming Jump-ship the same as any mine within proximity?
Quote:
I do know war is not a straight up line everyone up and fire until one side dies or surrenders.
And yet with warships, within space and a 3D setting, this is the very thing you do – line up ships into a shape that provides multiple overlapping fields of fire – any enemy ship or fleet approaching will be attacked with concentrated fire from multiple ships at the same time – this is repeated until one side or the other flees or is destroyed – consider it an extension of the Bomber formation of WW2 and the overlapping field of fire for the gunners.
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I could see if his Point of Departure was set say prior to the entire Amaris affair happening then, maybe his points would be more valid.
For the past 11 years HPG have been placed within capital fleet ships (especially flag ships) – thus establishing a point of departure as well as an attack timetable is achievable whist moving from Base to front line TH space!
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why
The back story is at the discretion of the writer … sometimes you don’t need to know, you just run with it …
Quote:
Requiem doesn't want to get into the minutia of the characters and their reasons for doing what they did
Then why did I analyse everything I could on all the major characters – put them in their document and then attempt to analyse their psychology? Whist at the same time analysing what is going on around them – their environment (nature or nurture?)
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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Requiem
08/03/21 02:05 AM
124.184.171.41
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And now back to the Wehrmacht!
Amaris’ Coup d’état Campaign - 2767
At the time Stefan Amaris’ Coup d’état, the Anschluss LCAF comprised over <GM Determined> combined arms ground forces regiments, in addition to a fleet of over <GM Determined> capital vessels – whilst in comparison the SLDF consisted of <GM Determined> combined arms ground forces and approximately <GM Determined> capital vessels.
Each Panzer Corps are organized into the following military aspect.
Lyran Corps
HQ CO: Ober-Gruppen-Fuhrer XO: Gruppen-Fuhrer
- 1st Brigade BCO: Leutnant-Gruppen-Fuhrer
- 1st Regimental Combat Team RCO: Standarten-Fuhrer
- 2nd Regimental Combat Team
- 3rd Regimental Combat Team
- 2nd Brigade
- 1st Regimental Combat Team
- 2nd Regimental Combat Team
- 3rd Regimental Combat Team
- 3rd Brigade
- 1st Regimental Combat Team
- 2nd Regimental Combat Team
- 3rd Regimental Combat Team
- Einherjar Detachment CO: Standarten-Fuhrer
- Luftwaffe Detachment CO: Luft-Kommodore
- Support Brigade
HQ multiple semi-autonomous departments – responsibilities include …
- Administration
- Signals and Mapping
- Military Intelligence – Strategies and Tactics
- Judge Advocate General – Commissar
- Logistics, Replacement-Deployment and Quartermaster Command
- Liaison
- Transport
Regimental Combat Team – A large multi-regiment formation that consist of a Regiment of BattleMechs, three Regiments of combat vehicles, five Regiments of infantry, two to five VTOL fighter wings, a Battalion of artillery, and two Attached Luftwaffe Aerospace fighter wings.
Einherjar Detachment – A multi-battalion formation that consisting of BattleMechs, combat vehicles, infantry, VTOLs, together with Luftwaffe aerospace fighters, that can be reduced in size and scope as per individual mission requirements.
Luftwaffe Detachment – On paper considered an individual multi-wing conventional fighter formation – In practice individual wings are assigned to RCT as per projected battle requirements.
Support Brigade – multiple semi-autonomous departments – responsibilities include …
- Medical
- Engineering
- Logistics
- Transport – Logistics, Recovery, Medical etc.
- Maintenance
- Commissary
- Weapons (maintenance) and Ammunition Storage etc.
High Command – Oberkommando des Heeres (OKH; Army High Command)
Under Lyran constitutional law vested in the Articles of Acceptance the command and government of the Lyran armed forces is vested in the Archon and as such he/she holds the highest office in the military chain of command.
As such the Commander-in-Chief (Reichsmarschall) of the Lyran Commonwealth Armed Forces (LCAF) refers to the supreme command authority, a military role vested in the Archon.
The authority to issue orders and give commands to military personnel is delegated by the Archon to her/his commanders in the field, however she/ he does retain the right to issue orders personally.
Defense Services Secretary of the Archon
The DSS is the primary channel of communication between the Archon, in her/his capacity as Commander-in-Chief and the officers and commanders of the LCAF. This office provides the Archon with the information and documentation related to defense affairs that she/he requires to perform her/his military functions and was created as part of the centralization of military affairs into a single defense ministry. The DSS maintains a direct link with the officers and chief of staff of the Army, Navy, and Air (space) Force within the Ministry of Defense.
Ministry of Defense - Military Department - Bundeswehr
The Ministry of Defense is the central command and control instrument for the Archon in exercising her/his function as commander-in-chief of the armed forces and as head of defense administration.
Responsible for providing the military forces needed to deter war and protect the security of the Lyran Commonwealth and their civil administration and procurement authorities.
Regional Commands – Oberbefehlshaber - OB : < Military District – Operational Area > Commander in Chief < Rank, Name >
As of 2750, the Lyran Commonwealth was divided into Military Districts which maintained multiple smaller Operational Areas, each with their own assigned forces and military commander as the primary lines of defense for the Commonwealth, lying along its borders with the Draconis Combine, Free Worlds League, and the Anti-spin-ward Periphery Rim Worlds Republic.
Operational Areas are named after the location of the commanding officer’s headquarters. Their commanders receive the non-hereditary title of Markgraf allowing them to act in the capacity of military commander to protect the people and worlds in their area from invaders, and at the same time protect the Lyran Commonwealth.
Military Regional Command (as at 2750)
Each Corp was provided a numeral name eg. 1st Panzer Corps.
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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ghostrider
08/03/21 02:58 AM
45.51.181.83
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A basic template? Not sure how you can use something that goes one way, then a retcon removes that ability or gives other paths that would have been taken, only to do the same thing later on in real time, but for the story, the new stuff changes the history and future yet again. The entire SDS thing was never seen until the Jihad happened.
The hi scout and boomerang are both manned units. They are not drones. The units the Hi Scout uses are remote controlled units, with goes against the entire bs of the game not allowing remote control until the SDS was needed to prevent the Jihad from being wiped out before it even began.
TPTB changed how the story would have gone with the addition of a few things. The concept of sitting in orbit and looking thru telescopes or the spy cameras of today should let you know if a city is evacuated. That alone should tell you the enemy knows your units are moving in on it. This is because your sensors wouldn't be able to detect anything, as they bite the big one. Until they are needed to find the needle in the haystack.
So you think the periphery, besides Amaris, were playing by the rules?
That is a purely foolish concept. First off, the citizens would be part of the raiders hitting the SLDF. There is a story about how the local ladies would pal up to soldiers, then kill them. This is a full scale freedom fight for the periphery. They will use every dirty tactic they can think of, and come up with more. Even moreso then your concept of what the DC would have done with the clans.
You do understand that a nuke can be about the size of a briefcase? Granted, those ones aren't very powerful, but they are hard to detect. Not sure when Battletech got energy shields, so I don't know how to respond to that one without violating the rules of the board.
But seeing the response here, I think I figured out why you don't want anything but a numbers game. It means you can't beat someone thru being smart. You just have to have more units. Might as well just stand still in your light mechs and let the assault mechs wipe them out.
Tactical retreat to where? ANYWHERE as you have not done anything to secure where I can go. And with that, I can hit your supplies, reinforcements, and even finish off damaged ships that are moving to a repair facility, even possibly taking them.
With each line of defense, you will lose more and more units. I don't even need to have them manned, and you would lose. One spotter and land lines to activate mines, including nukes. You say you can take a world without landing on it.
With the bombardments and nukes, you are doing something worse then just leaving the IS. You are killing those you swore to protect. YOU ARE KILLING THEM.
Might need to actually think before responding. The scenario presented was to jettison or fire off things as you are approaching a fleet before they jump out. Incoming jump wave is not even involved. I know where you are coming from and send out the bombs and such while you head towards me. Pretty simple. And since you are so focused on engagement, you are not going to change course for anything, as you know your ship will kill mine.
You think that space battles have ships just line up and sit in one position?
Movement is life. It is why it is harder to hit a moving target then a sitting one. In space, you will NOT just sit there and fire. Well, you might order you ships to do so.
In a 3D environment, you can be hit from all directions. And that should be utilized. Keep thinking in 2d terms. You will be destroyed rather quickly.
For the past 11 years HPG have been placed within capital fleet ships (especially flag ships) – thus establishing a point of departure as well as an attack timetable is achievable whist moving from Base to front line TH space!
Wow. No comprehension of anything with this one. Point of Departure was used to mean when the story line changed from the canon story to the alt. Not from a point in space for an attack.
There is no analysis of characters that I have seen. It was just put up as you wanted, as the story needed them a certain way for it to go how you wanted it. The only thing you did was try and find loop holes to exploit. The looking glass needs to be cleaned once in a while.
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Requiem
08/03/21 05:23 AM
124.184.171.41
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The entire SDS thing
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Space_Defense_System
The hi scout and boomerang are both manned units.
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Hi-Scout
Mission Scout / Drone Carrier
What is the function of a reconnaissance Drone and that of a Boomerang – conjecture only.
Citizens would be part of the raiders hitting the SLDF
In so doing they relinquish their civilian status and are therefore redesignated as military combatants – some one really should have explained to them what happens when this occurs.
Tactical retreat to where? ANYWHERE
Semantics
The scenario presented was to jettison or fire off things as you are approaching a fleet before they jump out.
Wouldn’t you have a forward screening force including aerospace fighters just in case this was attempted?
In space, you will NOT just sit there and fire.
And just as a bombers fly – warships soar through space – both can maintain a defensive posture to enable their guns to protect each other and to deliver concentrated fire on attacking aircraft / ships.
Point of Departure
This is not what I believed it to be.
There is no analysis of characters that I have seen.
There is no one else putting up their theory based upon all available information – there are multiple Forums that contain analysis of key individuals … yet to see a response to dispute them.
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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Karagin
08/03/21 09:51 AM
70.118.172.64
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Battletech doesn't have an energy shield per se. There is the Blue Shield Dampener system.
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Blue_Shield_Particle_Field_Damper
That only works to stop PPC fire.
I believe he is confusing the "detonator grid" that is found in the Steiner Stadium for his so-called energy shields. It starts to sound more and more like he is cherry-picking what he wants and ignoring everything he hates.
The fact that he doesn't understand my reference regarding what Point of Departure means suggests that he is fully unfamiliar with how alternate histories work.
So here are some sites to help him (or anyone out):
https://www.masterclass.com/articles/how-to-write-your-own-alternate-history-novel
https://rogue-skies.com/2019/07/17/changing-history-a-beginners-guide-to-writing-alternate-history/
https://www.standoutbooks.com/writing-alternate-history-fiction/
And the best summary:
3 Essential Tips for Writing Alternate History Fiction
Focus on one specific change to historical events. ...
Do a ton of research that goes beyond the single event you are altering. ...
Remember the same rules of standard fiction writing apply.
So far, we have seen all three of these rules broken, so maybe these sites will help him out. And again, I will suggest he look at the format of Empires Aflame, and it gives him a template to run with for what he wants to do. The setting may not be to his liking, but it's easier to tweak that setting since it doesn't have countless sourcebooks to get in the way; thus, he can adjust things and not be caught in the issues of canon stuff getting in his way.
However, based on his previous comments, I believe he will ignore the advice given and thus continue on this path of wanting his own storyline and ignoring canon to fit his needs.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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ghostrider
08/03/21 12:22 PM
45.51.181.83
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What is the function of a reconnaissance Drone and that of a Boomerang – conjecture only.
Conjecture only is the function of the two? I think you need to really think of your responses as this makes no sense in the context you used them in.
The concept of people living in an area being attacked by a hated nation is not something new. It happens in almost every war. The main difference is the numbers of people that do so. I believe that the statement of any enemy of the U.S. could destroy the military and spend the next few decades fighting the citizens, has merit. The more you kill, the more join in the resistance to remove you. This is the idea of resistance in the periphery.
Gotta love this one:
Tactical retreat to where? ANYWHERE
Semantics
You think that the enemy's ability to retreat to anywhere, as you have not secured the way they can is semantics? Glad you aren't in any sort of command position in the military. You would spend the entire time chasing your tail in a few miles. And getting those under you command killed. Think about it before you start lodging incompetency accusations.
Velocity is life. Warships do the same thing in space as fighters do. You attempt to avoid the enemies incoming fire. You can't do that sitting in one place. As the game says speed 4 is the same for the lightest fighter as it is for the largest warship, it sounds comical to think a warship could attempt the same thing, but that is how they survive. Otherwise, you will constantly have ships being damaged, with some being destroyed. This goes back to the idea of losing 95% of your forces. You would get pounded without returning it in kind. Stationary target concept.
If the Damper is being referred to, then the entire concept falls apart. That is unless he is saying that tech was introduced before the fall of the SL. Timewarping again comes to mind.
And the advice to look into Empires Aflame will be ignored, as the ultimate alt comes from only one mind.
I am against trying to keep canon involved when you change the whole concept of history. The FC would never have come about had the SL lived. There is no practical way for them to join. The TH prevents that from happening.
The LC would NOT gain Defiance, as the SL would not have fallen and left the world to whomever could get it.
More then a few worlds are important to the 3025 era and beyond that is with in the TH. Terra itself is one.
This questions of if WOB would have become a thing if it was still part of the SL?
So no. Without the need for joining, his ultimate goal of making Katherine the first lord for life will not come about. And yet it is pushed in that direction. Katherine would not be alive. The DC would not have almost taken New Avalon in the 1st war. The FWL is tricky. They may have formed a more loyal base, as the Captain-General position would never have become a permanent thing. So the Marik's might have been removed from power by vote. Or they might have finally split up into the smaller states so each 'duke' could rule their lands without interferrence from the Mariks or others.
The CC might well have become an economic powerhouse without the succession wars destroying their industry base faster then the others had.
It is very possible the peace would have lasted far longer then it did, or the houses would have sent in the assassins to remove the Cameron line. It is also possible the houses might be able to remove the heir based succession of the Camerons from ruling the SL.
But this is a war game. No war means no need for new books. No new books means going bankrupt.
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Requiem
08/03/21 11:11 PM
124.184.171.41
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Quote:
BattleTech does not have an energy shield per se.
Please explain what happens to a drop-ship / Jump-ship / Warship travelling at max velocity between the Jump point and the interior world when it is struck by dust particles / small rocks in the absence of an energy shield?
Quote:
The fact that he doesn't understand my reference regarding what Point of Departure means suggests that he is fully unfamiliar with how alternate histories work.
The starting point of a line of thought or course of action; an initial assumption
A navigational check point / jumping off place
Law – when a party quits or departs from the case
How about toxicology ….
Thanks, but no thanks – no assistance required – when studying writing this may have been of assistance – conformity kills creativity / innovation … lack of motivation and stagnation …
Rules for writing – question would you demand of all writers’ adherence to all rules no matter what – thus restricting their creative style of writing?
Again, Empire Aflame is not required …
Velocity is life … energy weapons are at what speed compared to the velocity of any ship? … range to target?
Again, Cannon is not required … the individual should be allowed to choose their history … any individual should be allowed to create their version … and present it …
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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ghostrider
08/04/21 01:30 AM
45.51.181.83
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The game doesn't deal with real life effects like smashing into any object while moving at speed in space. And don't forget that dropships can go much faster, if they want/need to. The travel speeds/time is for a normal limited burn.
The armor is implied to deal with such issues, but the game doesn't want to deal with fine details for aerospace. This is a land battle game, not Robotech or Star Wars.
Some sort of energy shield, besides the Steiner Arena isn't in the game. The Blueshield Karagin was talking about is more of a dampener then a shield. And honestly, it's tech path leads to a dark path.
Did you read what Karagin said about Empires Aflame?
conformity kills creativity / innovation … lack of motivation and stagnation …
That response suggests either you didn't or you don't comprehend the reference to using it as a base for the changes you want. He did not say you needed to use the entire thing as is. He said to springboard off it. He even said to change it to fit your vision. No where did it state it had to stand as is.
When writing anything, you have to stick to the rules of what you are writing about. If you feel it restricts creativity, then you don't accept the job to write about it. I don't seen encyclopedias having statement that aren't facts about the things they are describing. If you are writing a fiction story based on a game, then you should follow the game rules, otherwise you distort the game itself. If I wrote about the civil wars or even world wars, and said the energy shields used by one side would mean a complete breakdown as some people would view that as the accurate fact of the fighting.
If energy weapons, which also include PPCs which don't instantly hit the target like Lasers do, were soo good, why don't they have a bonus to hit anything? I do agree that lasers should hit more often then ballistic, and game missiles as most are unguided according to their own definition. PPCs are not instant transmission weapons.
I could use TPTB's excuse and say the laser needs time to focus damage in order to work, but that is a cop out. Their own fluff says the armor runs like molten metal when it hits and doesn't say anything about having to remain focused on a single spot for long. Just grazing is supposed to do the damage.
Again, Cannon is not required … the individual should be allowed to choose their history … any individual should be allowed to create their version … and present it …
The statement that doesn't work for you. You are trying to warp canon to fit your vision. The alt should not follow canon as it constantly does with the alt. Changing a few things changes the ENTIRE future of a story line. Things that happen in 3025 would not happen without the fall of the SL.
Saying no WMD are used means less dead worlds and more intact factories. So instead of using a company or even a lance to attack a world, you have to have a flotilla of RCTs to do anything. It doesn't make the game any more fun when you have 1000 units to kill verses having only 12. Most people don't want to play Battlespace with a few dozen ships in order to get to the ground and fight lance on lance. The presented way of the alt suggests you can't do anything smaller then an RCT at a time, as there is far to many units to bring in less. It also means far more worlds you have to deal with.
In the end, your actions mean nothing to winning the battle for your side. Mercs wouldn't really be necessary, as you have dozens of RCTs ready to go to war. Mercs work only when there is a lack of available units, or they are too stupid to realize they were hired to soak up bullets.
But canon not required. Stop trying to run with canon with all the changes. It doesn't work.
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Requiem
08/04/21 04:43 AM
124.184.171.41
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Quote:
When writing anything, you have to stick to the rules of what you are writing about.
Now is the winter of our discontent
Made glorious summer by this daughter of Tharkad
The game’s afoot:
Follow your spirit, and upon this charge
Cry ‘God for Katherine, Lyran Alliance and Valkyrie Sigrun!
(Archon Katherine act 3 scene 1)
If transferred to Shakespeare must we use go down this path?
Nay I say Nay again winters chill and poor conformity
to the dirge of failure brought forth by entrapping verse and soul
Quote:
If energy weapons, which also include PPCs which don't instantly hit the target like Lasers do, were soo good, why don't they have a bonus to hit anything?
Quote:
The game doesn't deal with real life effects
So what is so wrong utilizing cannon – you just use - larva - transposed and characters and locations and weave them in – then let the universe undergo chrysalis … and emerge the butterfly!
Quote:
Changing a few things changes the ENTIRE future of a story line.
We are the dreamers and we manufacture the dream as we see fit … if we just wish to amend a section for the sake of that section alone that is the prerogative the party in the game! … if we want to amend it all that to is at the discretion of the party involved … freedom allows the individual to choose
Is fate set in stone, inevitable, or is it able to change with the whims of individuals …. Dr Who puts this to the test! And in my writing, I will choose …
It is the gamers and their GM who decide if they face a Corps or a lance … or to face a fleet of warships or none at all ….
Again and again conforming the mind to a single realm dulls the game … expand the horizon create one offs - Create new and exiting worlds by transposing villains to heroes and heroes to villains …
The game world should never be set in stone! It is there to have fun so have fun create the world that will provide the greatest excitement …. Be free …
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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Requiem
08/04/21 06:16 AM
124.184.171.41
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And now back to the Wehrmacht!
Military Regional Command (as at 2750)
Each Corp was provided a numeral name eg. 1st Panzer Corps.
Donegal Province
OB Tharkad – Capital world of the Lyran Commonwealth – SLDF Space Station – Homeport 8th Fleet.
OB Donegal – Capital world of the Donegal Province.
Alarion Province
OB Alarion – Capital world of the Alarion Province – Port Sydney Naval Shipyards.
Furillo Province
OB Furillo – Capital world of the Furillo Province – Defiance Industries.
Federation of Skye
OB New Kyoto – Regional capital of the Rahneshire Region of the Federation of Skye – Kyoto College (Myomers), Doering Electronics, & RAMTech Industries.
OB Alexandria – Federation of Skye cultural haven.
OB Skye – Capital world of the Federation of Skye – Major commercial hub including Drop-ships and Warships, SLDF Sanglamore Academy.
OB Kannon – Regional capital of the Kannon Shire of the Federation of Skye.
Tamar Pact Province
OB Camlann – Administrative capital of the Camlannshire Region of the Tamar Pact Province.
OB Tamar – Capital world of the Tamar Pact – SLDF HQ of the XLII Corps – Bolson-Tamar Shipyards
OB Twycross – Administrative capital of the Twycross Region of the Tamar Pact Province – Trellshire Heavy Industries – SLDF Garrison.
Coventry Province
OB Coventry – Administrative capital of the Coventry Province – Industrial and agricultural – Coventry Metal Works – Coventry Military Academy – SLDF Garrison.
Post Absorption of the Rim Worlds Republic into the Lyran Commonwealth (as at 2773)
Rim Worlds Province
OB Apollo – Former capital of the Rim Worlds Republic – Roe Weapon Systems (Aerospace Fighter) – United Mechanics LLC
OB Finmark – Provincial capital of the Finmark Province – Roe Weapon Systems Shipyard (Warships)
Roe Weapon Systems Shipyard (Warships) – Finmark Air & Space Academy
OB Timbuktu – Provincial capital of the Timbuktu Province – Diplass Technologies (BattleMech)
OB Erdvynn – Provincial capital of the Erdvynn Province – Diplass Technologies (BattleMech)
Commonwealth Military Bundeswehr – Sub-agencies
Army Department
Navy Department
Aerospace Force Department
Signals Defense
Defense Acquisition
Defense Criminal Investigative Service
National Security Agency
Defense Information Systems
Defense Investigative-Intelligence Service
Defense Logistics
Defense Mapping and Stellar Cartography
Defense Special Weapons and Services
Defense Research and Development
Engineering
Defense Services Education and University
Defense Health and Welfare
House Forces Liaison Department.
Defense Mercenary Relations (Liaison Branch)
Commonwealth Heer (Army)
The Land based combat arm of the Lyran military encompassing all regular and reserve ground forces.
The Heer is composed of a numerous corps, sub-commands, mercenaries and reserve units: Sub-agencies include …
Combat Arms Branches
• BattleMech – all BattleMech vehicles.
• Armored – all combat vehicles.
• VTOL and Aviation – all VTOL and Aviation combat and non-combat vehicles.
• Infantry – all regular infantries.
• Special Forces – all special forces infantries.
• Air Defense – air defense vehicles and Radar.
• Field Artillery – all artillery.
• Combat Engineers.
BattleMech – Ground units of the LCAF were classified and equipped depending upon their role.
Uhlans
A main assault Regiment – a single assault battalion with the remaining two battalions consists of heavy-to-assault.
Grenadiers
Composed of heavy-to-assault – primary purpose, engages well equipped enemies.
Fusiliers
The core of most Corps – consisting of medium-to-heavy.
Dragoons (Cavalry)
Composed of Medium – primary purpose rapid advance and break through formations.
Hussars
Composed of light-to-medium – primary purpose rapid support (majority – missile support).
Lancers
Composed of light-to-medium – rapid penetration (majority – Laser).
Light Horse
Composed of light – primary reconnaissance.
Armored – Ground units of the LCAF were classified and equipped depending upon their role.
Tank Classifications
JagdCheetah – Reconnaissance Vehicles
JagdLeopard – Cavalry Vehicles
JagdJaguar – Infantry APC Vehicles
JagdPanther ¬– Infantry Support Vehicles
JagdPanzer – Support Combat Vehicles
JagdTiger – Main Combat Vehicles
Specialist – eg. Engineers – Armored recovery vehicles, Armored Vehicle Launched Bridge etc
Artillery – Ground units of the LCAF were classified and equipped depending upon their role.
Artillery Classifications
SRM Artillery
LRM Artillery
Anti-Aircraft Guns
Self-propelled Artillery
Howitzer Artillery
Siege Artillery
VTOL – Ground units of the LCAF were classified and equipped depending upon their role.
VTOL Classifications
Alruna Class – Multi-role Combat – eg Apache
Eir Class – Utility – eg Black Hawk (Combat & MASH)
Geiravor Class – Multi-mission Tiltrotor – eg. Osprey
Gondul Class – Heavy lift –eg Chinook
Herja Class – Combat Conventional Fighter –eg Harrier
Infantry – Ground units of the LCAF were classified and equipped depending upon their role.
Infantry Classifications
Reconnaissance
Commando
Ranger
Infantry
Heavy Infantry
Jump Infantry
Forest Infantry
Desert Infantry
Alpine Infantry
Mechanized Infantry
Motorized Infantry
Multi-purpose canine (MPC)
Mounted Infantry
Military Police (MP)
Urban Security
Marines
Engineers – Demolition etc.
Commonwealth Luftwaffe (Aerospace and Conventional)
The aerospace and conventional combat arm of the Lyran military encompassing …
Combat Arms
• Attack – Close air support and ground attack.
• Bomber – Long range strike missions.
• Special Electronic – Early Warning and Control Information Environment – electronic warfare and jamming, psychological operations and communications, airborne command post, ground targeting radar, range control, communications relay ….
• Fighter – small, fast and maneuverable craft used for aerospace-to-aerospace combat (aerospace superiority) + dual-role as fighter-bombers.
• Reconnaissance – planetary reconnaissance – monitoring enemy activity …
• Observation – close reconnaissance – report tactical information concerning composition and disposition of forces.
Combat Support
• Transport – Deliver military equipment and infantry.
• Search and Rescue – in or out of combat operations.
• Multi-mission – special support for ‘global’ special operations – infiltration, exfiltration, resupply ….
• Trainer – used to train pilots, combat systems, aircrew personnel …
• Utility – conventional craft used for what is required at the time …
• VIP Staff Transport – craft used for the transportation of VIPs.
Special Services
• Planetary Defense – systems utilized for planetary defense against an approaching enemy fleet …
Luftwaffe units are assigned to a specific combat team, naval vessel, or act within their own specialist units as required.
Commonwealth Military – Kampfdienste (Combat Services)
The other branches of the Lyran military encompassing …
Combat Support Branches
• Signals – Responsible for reliability of battlefield communication.
• Intelligence – Responsible for all Intelligence.
• Mapping – Topography and Stellar Cartography services.
• Security – Responsible for security, Military Police, Commissars.
Combat Service Support
• Base Establishment – facilities on land, or in space.
• Adjutant General’s – serve at an organizational level to plan, develop, and operate the personnel management support systems – life cycle functions – personnel requisition, reassignment, evaluation, promotion, awards and decorations, reenlistment, casualty reporting, strength accounting, replacement operations, and Mercenary Relations.
• Finance – Responsible for Unit Finance
• Ordinance - munitions.
• Quartermaster - Supply Service / Transport Command – Overseas organization and assignment of supplies
• Transportation Service / Transport Command – oversees the organization and assignment of Jump-Ships and Drop-Ships assigned to ground forces.
Special Services
• Criminal Investigation, Judge Advocate General.
• Medical – Responsible for Battlefield triage – and after battle care – veterinary, dental, nursing, etc …
• Education – Responsible for education requirements.
• Chaplain – All recognized religions.
Commonwealth Kriegsmarine (Navy)
The Space based combat arm of the Lyran military encompassing all fleet and merchantman forces.
Prior to the SLDF Amaris Coup d’état Campaign secret construction facilities were maintained throughout the Lyran Commonwealth as repair facilities – the true scope of Kriegsmarine remains a national security issue.
Combat Arms Branches
• Warships – all warships.
• Jump-ships – all merchantman jump-ships.
• Drop-ships – all combat and merchantman drop-ships.
• Space-stations – all military space stations.
• VIP Staff Transport – Dropships used for the transportation of VIPs.
• Aviation – all fighter and reconnaissance aerospace.
• Marines – all regular combat marine infantry.
• Special Forces – all Naval special forces.
• Combat Engineers.
Navy – Squadron / Fleet
Line
Primary offensive formation – Carrier and two battleships protected by multiple cruisers and frigates
Pursuit
Rapid formation – primarily fast jeep-carriers, battlecruisers, and cruisers.
Escort
Achieve space superiority whilst attached to army transport / logistics fleets - primarily frigates and destroyers
Reconnaissance
Intelligence gathering - primarily frigates and destroyers (with the occasional cruiser) equipped with the most advanced sensory equipment and reconnaissance aerospace assets.
Transport
Dedicated to mass transport – logistics and ground forces.
Exploration / Survey
Discovering new ship routes / worlds – large cruiser equipped with multiple dropships, advanced sensory equipment, and reconnaissance aerospace assets - designed to undertake missions lasting months or years if necessary.
Doctrine
The LCAF operational doctrine focuses on achieving high combat performance. It emphasizes adaptability, flexibility and decentralized decision making.
Officers and NCOs were selected based on character and trained towards decisive combat leadership. Positive combat performance and efficiency is desired (A high combat efficiency score).
Tactics
The military strength of the LCAF is managed through mission-based tactics (Fuhren mit Auftrag) (“leading by mission”), and an almost proverbial discipline.
Where the emphasis is on the outcome of a mission rather than the specific means of achieving it
Once an operation begins, whether offensive or defensive, speed in response to changing circumstances is considered more important than careful planning and coordination of new plans.
The LCAF military is seen as a high-tech army since new technologies that were introduced influences its development of tactical doctrine.
Organization
Front-line Regular Forces
Regional Reserve – Assigned to a given defensive zone (or Verteidigungzone) of several worlds, a Regional Reserve is under the direct command of the provincial or theatre commander. Regional Reserves mimic the structure of an Regimental Combat Team. They also, generally, have their own Dropships.
Planetary Reserve – generally garrison forces, are almost conventional armor, VTOL, fighters, infantry and artillery regiments. Though influential and wealthy planets may supplement these with ‘Mech forces.
All reserve forces are required to answer to the LCAF.
Noble families – Are allowed to maintain their own private forces and are subject to strict control by the House Forces Liaison Department.
Military Academy Training Units – Tied to a specific military academy, these units are designed to provide their Corps of Cadets battlefield experience before transferring to a front-line unit. Equipment for these units is procured through the Academy.
Mercenary Forces – Hired to supplement existing forces as and when required. Liaison will be required to assist in integrating the unit into the LCAF and to provide some level of control.
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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Karagin
08/04/21 10:15 AM
70.118.172.64
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I even offered up the advice from three different websites on how to write good or less pit-felled alternate history, he doesn't want to hear anything other than how great his stuff is and while some things could maybe be useful for plot ideas, the rest is a mess that he doesn't want to see or be told.
I am all for someone defending their ideas, but eventually one has to see that if the same issues are coming up with each take or idea then that should tell you that you need to rethink things or flesh them out more.
Again, highly recommend Requiem that you read the information on the websites I posted, they will help you out a lot. I can attest to that, the information is very well presented. Also, you need to understand the basics of alternate history. You can make changes, BUT once you make a change everything going forward changes.
The Empire Aflame setting offers you a new canvas, it also gives you the part that you have brought up, about the SLDF not leaving, so right there you can scrap everything else plug in your stuff, then you have a chance to go forward without all the baggage of Clans and Succession Wars, since the setting is already done to support the SLDF staying. All you would be changing is every forward from 2784 forward who be new cloth and thus your version of events can be used.
Then all the minor things you feel need to be changed can be changed and done with plot devices, like amazing breakthroughs in technology, etc...
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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ghostrider
08/04/21 11:46 AM
45.51.181.83
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Comparing someone writing their own independent story, and someone writing for an established story is foolish.
Freestyle writing means you create the universe of it's own accord, not take one and throw in what you feel is the only viable solution, and try to continue with that universes past/future. Use what you want, but don't continue with what is canon afterwards. Events that lead up to the future are not there anymore.
These changes create new events, so the LC for instance, may well be a new nation. But yet, the reality of this has not set in. The SL would NOT give up Defiance, which is the LCs main source of mechs. The SL doesn't fall, then the LC would not get Defiance. So their entire history/future is changed beyond trying to hold to canon. If the LC takes Defiance, there will be war as well as the LC having a MAJOR advantage over the other houses.
Also, with their economic might, which may change do to changes in the story, why wouldn't they have build far more factories if they didn't experience the devastation of the 1st war?
Trying to say the canon story line, including the names of the major characters, while changing the way things went up to that point is the issue. Create a new line of leaders. Victor, Katherine, Yvonne, Peter, and Arthur Steiner-Davion would never have existed without specific chain of events. Hanse would probably have never been born. Worlds and even the nations of the IS would probably never have been born. The abundance of military units would have had those independent nations resist far longer and may well still be separate in 3025 and beyond.
With the SL alive, Skye may well have had the ability to break off as the SL would have backed their claim to independence. The DC may well have had the same thing happen. Internal issues verses separation of nations has major issues.
Stick lipstick on a pig and calling it a super model doesn't work.
It is the GM and gamers that decide how many forces they fight. This is true, but does not follow the real logic in the land of abundance. Your unit will not just fact one similar sized unit in a fight between RCTs. It is more likely that those units on your flanks will bring their battle into your area, just trying to outmaneuver each other. And fighter runs on ground targets? They don't just appear over the target area. They also don't just disapper after the run.
You keep wanted logic in the game and story, yet keep removing it from both.
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ghostrider
08/04/21 12:04 PM
45.51.181.83
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A couple of points that have come to mind.
Partisan units are normally citizens that come together to resist invaders. They normally have someone that was part of the military, but not active soldiers. You pushed them for the DC during the clan invasion, yet seemed to forget them while dealing with the periphery war.
The SLDF had to watch just how badly they destroyed the periphery during that war. They could not afford to have atrocities upon atrocities being linked to their actions. They were supposed to be bringing the periphery back into the union. Each time you nuked a city or planet, that makes those you are fighting more fanatical as well as increasing discord back in the TH and other houses. And each house opposite of the IS would use that as a means to force more concessions from the TH. How could say the LC, DC stand by while the SLDF was causing the Turan Concordat into a glowing ember? Politics would demand they allow the TC to threaten the CC, FS at the time. It also gave then more power to push for large militaries, as they could not in good faith have the low count when the SLDF was so eager to just destroy a nation.
A simple party of the brass for the local invaders that has a few of the local ladies show up, and by the end of the night, they kill even just one officer. How much different would the local SLDF forces do things? Say they took out Kerensky, or DeChavilier? Even having the information that the officers were cheating on their spouses would destroy some offensives. Blackmail would help stop a lot of issues as well.
The lady may well be looking for revenge from having her family, maybe children, being killed by the local officers.
So by saying that you would just attack civilians that struck out against your invasion shows how little you really though thru the scenario. And with it, you show the basis of the clans thinking. Wipe it all out if they resist. At least the clans gave people the ability to challenge them back. Not much hope, but better then an invader just mowing people down.
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Requiem
08/04/21 09:26 PM
124.184.171.41
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Karagin, you have offed advice as to these three websites and yet I am highly sceptical – an individual’s writing style is similar to a fingerprint – unique.
After writing vast documents for academia this may have impacted my style …
So can you please show me the error of my ways. I have created a forum - Alt History: Events regarding the Amaris Coup d’état Campaign, can you use these rules, re-write, and prove to me these rules can produce a superior document.
Show me how my ideas need to flesh them out more through this document please.
Ghostrider,
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but don't continue with what is canon afterwards. Events that led up to the future are not there anymore.
Can one drop in the river change the course of the river – or is the river set to travel a set path … ?
Sorry but acquiescence to what I can and cannot do – conformity to others views – when I am the dreamer writing the dream, is this acceptable?
Consider Star Treck DS9 – Far Beyond the Stars Episode – Should Sisko have conformed in his writing?
Time can still be linier it does not have to produce a hard tangent just because the butterfly in the Amazon changed the beat of its wings … as the writer it is my choice to choose – tangent or no tangent to creating a chain of events at a macro vs micro as to direction of the world can create two events at the same time – people, changing friendships, and circumstances can affect people to change your key character individuals – the world around them, however, can still go on the same or vice versa
It is the freedom of the writer to choose their story – logic in the story is important – and yet the battle could equally move in another direction rather than disappearing so the battle on your flank never occurred – it is at the discretion of the GM / players as to the parameters they want.
In all war settings there will be partisans and there will be militias – the aim however is when to include them in the story and when to exclude them. Most civilians playing soldier are just going to cause an incident that will end in tragedy, the question is does their inclusion within your story add value to the story of your main characters – can it prove a pivotal point in their development (plot Vs sub-plot), which again is at the discretion of the writer / GM.
Canon SLDF … atrocities and who performed them is an interesting concept, and yet just saying the enemy performed such actions is a complete over simplification … consider the bombing of WW2, especially at the end with Dresden – was this really necessary? Then there are stories that are covered up US soldiers during the battle of the bulge were not only being having war crimes committed upon them (Germans killing GI POWs) at the same time US soldiers were committing war crimes (US GIs Killing German POWs) –
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chenogne_massacre#:~:text=According%20to%20his%20sources%2C%20US,odd%20German%20med%20%5Bsic%5D.
consider the entry in Patton’s war diary – January 4, 1945.
As the writer such actions by both sides needs to be considered – Amaris’ forces killed off 95% of the entire SLDF …. https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Star_League_Defense_Force “At its height the SLDF was the largest military force known to man, composed of over 100 million soldiers”, that’s just 95 million soldiers … the carnage wrought by both sides must have been beyond all description, both sides must have accepted M.A.D. last man standing rule, industrializes slaughter, as the only way to win …
This is at the prerogative of the writer to include or exclude … to follow cannon or to abandon it altogether.
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A simple party of the brass
This is at the whim of the GM / Writer – Kerensky of De Chavilier may be dead, but they can be replaced by another person and the war can still have the same outcome. History will now just use this new character to direct the flow of time along the same path … or yes you can choose to move it in a completely different direction … again this is at the whim of the GM / writer
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So by saying that you would just attack civilians that struck out against your invasion shows how little you really though thru the scenario.
No, not so, does this scenario add value to the story or not? This again is at the discretion of the GM / writer …. That is unless you want a choose your own adventure book where after a turn of events you can choose to go to either page 53 or 74 based upon what you, the reader, believe should happen next.
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you show the basis of the clans thinking. Wipe it all out if they resist.
Then may I suggest you write your own version or just accept cannon can never change and no matter what your group achieves in your game the wider world will always be the same – and if you end up in a historical battle you are fated to end up just as history predicts – no changes allowed.
As a writer cannot I create my history as I desire it to be? How would many authors books would have evolved the way they did if they had to conform to the desires of their readers as to the direction of the plot every time?
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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ghostrider
08/05/21 12:14 AM
45.51.181.83
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Yes. One drop in a river can change the flow. Something as small as a non important person, like a janitor that survives a nuke that destroys a town, but dies later will do nothing. A huge drop, like removing nukes in general will change the course of the river dramatically. The story is made so the SL dies because of events leading up to the Amaris war, and afterwards. To change any of those events will change what happens. It may delay or hasten the destruction of the SL. Amaris may well be left out of history as the war starts sooner or removes him from being in the position to do what he did.
With the alt, you are not changing weither the First lord wore blue or red. You are changing the entire chain of events so the canon outcome is not possible. You pretty much caused an avalanche and blocked the entire river. Broken the banks so the river changes where it goes. Spin it all you want, the end result is the same. Logic does not follow canon afterwards.
It is the freedom of the writer to choose their story
And yet you continue to bag on the canon writers as you say their story is wrong? This is another basis of why things don't work. I don't like the way some things turned out in the canon story, but I am not demanding things be changed to my views.
So partisans would never be allowed to fight against the SLDF in anyway they could, but the DC can? That is inconsistent logic at it's finest. And you missed the point. Partisans are normally not active military. I really believe you need to stop skimming the materials and actually read the context presented. It is becoming more and more clear that you aren't bothering with the actual content of statements.
The changes presented will not allow the world to continue on in the original storyline after they happen. Not killing RIchard would negate the entire reason Kerensky did what he did. Can is only set up when things are not that huge. Having an argument between the two might well let the world continue on, but say Richard fires Kerensky? Not going to keep going along the story line. The logic and reasons change. To even attempt it would open up more logic holes, which is what you continue to use in order to change the story.
atrocities and who performed them is an interesting concept, and yet just saying the enemy performed such actions is a complete over simplification
Again, a lack of reading and comprehension of what is actually said is showing thru. I said both sides continued to do crap. The thing I did say is the SLDF needs to avoid looking like the ravaging hordes, as they have to answer to the TH and houses. Following the laws as much as possible is where they are at a disadvantage. Their own high moral grounds did not stop them from using nukes against the periphery or Amaris. And they did have a piece of paper saying that nuking things was illegal. So that point doesn't hold up in the logic of the game.
Funny how war crimes is coming up, yet you want to sterilize the entire game of such things. Battles will almost always have someone doing something bad. Mechs stepping on people, as well as infantry using flame throwers and such. I would suggest a real sit down and think about that before suggesting the Batchall fighting style that would be needed to remove all of these. We know more then a few leaders would ignore the rules of the challenge.
You think that if Kerensky was replaced the SLDF would still have gone in tooth and nail against Amaris? You think the same tactics would be used? I seriously doubt that. It may well have stopped the brutal invasion of the periphery before Amaris had the chance to make his move. Or it may well have caused it to get far worse. To suggest the same outcome would happen no matter who was in charge is failing to adhere to logic. The event may well have caused the entire SLDF to go into a civil war on it's own, as commanders would fight for position in the new chain of command.
This is especially true if you want Kerensky to be a social general.
The thread posted have not shown the alt to be anything other then saying canon is wrong because you don't like it, and your vision is the only viable solution.
I agree with more then a few things about changing it, I just do not agree that having canon remain in anything is viable or logical.
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Karagin
08/05/21 12:37 AM
70.118.172.64
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If you make changes to canon then you can not have the same outcomes as what the powers that be have told us is canon.
Prime Example, the scenario pack for the BATTLE OF TYWCROSS allows you to play out the events of the Great Gash, including having Kai Allard on the battlefield.
So back in the late 90s a bunch of us ran this battle. The Clan players did something we didn't expect, they didn't cheat, they used the scenario rules to get them a win. What they did was move along the entire right side edge of the map for them, my team left. The game was over in like 6 turns because we aka the Inner Sphere side, weren't able to move to stop them. Why? Because we thought they would come out and fighting like drunken brawlers who think they are best in the word etc...no, the players used a better plan than we had.
So we tried it again, this time NO moving along with the edge hexes. Fast forward, the battle is really close, things are about even as far as points and such for killed mechs and battlearmor, etc...then the person running the Hatchetman with Allard in gets hit center torso, now we have always played with the floating critical for that magical hit location of snake eyes aka a 2.
No issue, the Clan player rolls and gets the crit in the head. Okay, not a big deal, location is rolled, and...boom cockpit is hit. So Kia is now dead. Or is he?
If I was writing the events out BASED on the gameplay then yeah he's dead and all that we know about him doing all the super cool stuff in the rest of canon is now gone.
But let's say he is only wounded, loses both his legs, doesn't mean he can't still help Victor but again the changes to his nature, his abilities, and what he pushes himself to do are not going to be the same Kia Allard canon tell us about. That is what you need to understand. Anything you change that is a big picture change causes other things to change.
Go read the BRING THE JUBILEE and you will see what I am talking about Or go read FOR WANT OF A NAIL, they both show you what happens when the minor at the time but major changes can do to things down the road.
We all have our own ideas on how the backstory could be better or tweaked to make more sense and some things that they say happened even with retcons still don't make a lot of sense. IMVHO believe with the forced Jihad craptastic storyline and Dark Age monster, the PTB at the time tried too hard to tie up every loose plot thread or thrown away line to keep folks from asking for things about those fluff points. And that backfired in their faces badly. Having throw-away lines or fluff points are things that made Battletech different. Not everything needed an official answer or reason.
That left stuff up to the players and their groups to come up with. As said before, the background story has bugs, it's not perfect, but it does offer a lot of things for folks to use. So, if things are what you want, fine, make changes, but understand that those changes will affect what happens from that point forward.
IF the SLDF doesn't leave the Inner Sphere or does leave but is three times smaller than what it was in canon, that means the Clans won't be the invaders in 3048-3050. Now it doesn't mean there won't be a war or an invader, it means the forces will not be the Clans. This is just an example.
We keep trying to help you get a better understanding of this stuff and I agree with Ghostrider, you need to read the material in the canon books and understand it so when you make the changes you know what is going away and the why can be explained so it makes sense. What is so hard for you to grasp about this part?
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Karagin
08/05/21 12:45 AM
70.118.172.64
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Requiem, here is a thread, https://www.sarna.net/forums/showflat.php?Number=53054 , that we aka the folks that post here or did at one point talk about what we would like to see or offer better ideas for future events of the BT universe. All offer things, and if you skip over the side remarks, you will see that each of us had similar ideas or at least ones that were close and some had far out in left field ideas. What we did was offer things that made sense or at least kept things on the playing field in side the ballpark.
A lot of my ideas for my Terran Rebellion and no ROTS ideas grew out of these threads and talks with many of the posters. Take the advice of someone who has fought the battles here and seen that the majority of the folks will offer good ideas and things to help you get your ideas out better and logcial and make sense.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Requiem
08/05/21 02:05 AM
124.184.171.41
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A huge drop, like removing nukes in general will change the course of the river dramatically.
An inundation is far removed from a drop.
Changing events just by removing WMDs does not have to change events – and now conventional warfare determines battles not who utilizes the most WMDs.
The battle goes on.
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To change any of those events will change what happens.
Alt History: Events regarding the Amaris Coup d’état Campaign – proves otherwise.
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And yet you continue to bag on the canon writers as you say their story is wrong?
Limited in their scope, depth and options available – also cheating comes to mind, when you write a rule / cultural aspect / character psychology / previous tactic used then ignored / previous ability to move units / remove whole units altogether etc etc towards your characters and then change them just so the pet clan units can be preserved – when they should have died proves that we are back to the same problem as the war of 3039.
Poor writing.
Thus at this point I use my freedom and express my disappointment – I then write my alternate view so that others can consider options.
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So partisans would never be allowed to fight against the SLDF in anyway they could
What is happening within all Periphery States – also what are some pirate units up to?
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The changes presented will not allow the world to continue on in the original storyline after they happen.
And yet Alt History: Events regarding the Amaris Coup d’état Campaign – proves otherwise.
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So that point doesn't hold up in the logic of the game.
Legal Law of War – https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_war#:~:text=The%20law%20of%20war%20is,critical%20terms%20of%20international%20law.
Once WMDs are initiated they cannot be stopped – so just remove them from the game – simple no logic problems if there are no WMDs to begin with.
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You think that if Kerensky was replaced the SLDF would still have gone in tooth and nail against Amaris?
If this is the desire of the writer, then yes. It is possible to get the same outcome if so desired.
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BATTLE OF TYWCROSS
So I have no choice but to use exactly what they say I am allowed to use ?
Am I allowed to bring in a custom unit?
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then yeah he's dead and all that we know about him doing all the super cool stuff in the rest of canon is now gone.
So? Write in a new character to take his place.
The depth and scope of the change is up to desire of the writer.
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IF the SLDF doesn't leave the Inner Sphere or does leave but is three times smaller than what it was in canon, that means the Clans won't be the invaders in 3048-3050.
Or the Clans could be the descendants of Amaris … or they could be a complete unknown tribe of humanity that was lost and have now returned ….
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is so hard for you to grasp about this part?
That I am very content on the way I write.
After reading thread, https://www.sarna.net/forums/showflat.php?Number=53054 , what is the difference than what I am doing as I really cannot see the difference … how many logical issues have I brough up, then backed them with vast amounts of documentary evidence to prove the point, only to be told no and with no explanation as to why other than saying it is wrong.
So this means no to my alternate Amaris Kerensky civil war?
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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Requiem
08/05/21 03:20 AM
124.184.171.41
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Ranks
The Brandenberg Edicts of 2413 established the rank system for the LCAF, issued by Archon Katherine Steiner, they were adapted from those used within the 20th Century (with a few changes).
Mannschaften (Personnel) Military Ranks – Wehrmacht (defense power) – primary branches are:
• Heer (Army) (H)
• Kriegsmarine (Navy) (K)
• Luftwaffe (Aerospace) (L)
Enlisted Ranks
Recruit – H – Soldaten – K – Matrose – L – Flieger
Private / Seaman Apprentice – Gefreiter
Private / Seaman – Obergefreiter
Private / Seaman – Huptgefreiter
Lance Corporal / Petty Officer – Stabsgefreiter
Corporal / Petty Officer – Oberstabsgefreiter
Non-Commissioned Ranks
Sergeant / Petty Officer – H/L – Unteroffizier – K – Maat
Sergeant / Petty Officer – H/L – Stabsunteroffizier – K – Obermaat
Staff Sergeant / Petty Officer – H/L – Feldwebel – K – Bootsmann
Staff Sergeant / Petty Officer – H/L– Oberfeldwebel – K – Oberbootsmann
Master Sergeant / Chief Petty Officer – H/L – Hauptfeldwebel – K – Hauptbootsmann
Master Sergeant / Senior Chief Petty Officer – H/L – Stabsfeldwebel – K – Stabsbootsman
Senior Master Sergeant / Master Chief Petty Officer – H/L – Oberstabsfeldwebel – K – Oberstabsbootsmann
Officer Aspirant / Cadet Ranks
OC – Sergeant / Petty Officer – H/L – Fahnenjunker – K – Seekadett
OC – Staff Sergeant / Petty Officer – H/L – Fahnrich – K – Fahnrich zur See
OC – Master Sergeant / Senior Chief Petty Officer – H/L – Oberfahnrich – K – Oberfahnrich zur See
Offiziere – Junior Officer Ranks
Second Lieutenant / Ensign – H/L – Leutnant – K – Leutnant zur See
First Lieutenant / Lieutenant JG – H/L – Oberleutnant – K – Oberleutnant zur See
Captain / Lieutenant – H/L – Hauptmann – K – Kapitanleutnant
Stabsoffiziere – Senior Officer Ranks
Major / Lieutenant Commander / Squadron Leader – H/L – Kommandant – K – Korvettenkapitan
Lieutenant Colonel / Commander / Wing Commander – H/L – Oberstleutnant – K – Fragattenkapitan
Colonel / Captain / Group Captain – H/L – Oberst – K – Kapitan zur See
General & Flag Officer Ranks
Brigadier / Commodore / Air Commodore – H – Standarten-Fuhrer – K – Flottillenadmiral
– L – Luftkommodore
Lieutenant General / Rear Admiral / Air Vice Marshal – H – Generalleutnant – K – Konteradmiral
– L – Flugdienstleiter
Major General / Vice Admiral / Air Marshal – H – Gruppenfuhrer – K – Vizeadmiral – L – Fluglotse
General / Admiral / Marshal – H – Obergruppenfuhrer – K – Admiral – L – Marschall
Field Marshall / Fleet Admiral / Marshal Air Force – H – Feldmarschall – K – Flottenadmiral
– L – Marschall Luftwaffe
General of the Armies – Archon Reichsmarschall
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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ghostrider
08/05/21 01:19 PM
45.51.181.83
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Nukes made the history of the storyline the way it was. Without it, there are far more worlds accessible to the game as well as changing the outcome of more then a few battles.
The Sea Skimmer fluff in TRO 3025 had used a tactical nuke to destroy a damn on Skye to prevent the DC from taking the world.
The entire history of the Terra would be changes as removing nukes also means removing power generators, as someone will use that as a bomb.
The concept of the story being a river doesn't apply when you are talking about changing some of the necessary things. You might as well remove mechs. Or nerf them. Or empower the to be real kings of the battlefield. Remove warships as you wanted to. Does the same thing. It destroys the entire game, as the entire space battle scenes for the SL change.
Really?
Alt History: Events regarding the Amaris Coup d’état Campaign – proves otherwise.
Your fiction is being used to prove that events in the Battletech storyline can be altered, yet end up with the same result. I can make up a story where the SLDF nukes the house lords into oblivion, and the people love them for it. It does not change the fact that the entire future afterwards is changed completely.
Get really creative and make new names for leaders, maybe even changing the names of the nations as well as other things. So far, changing a few things to tilt the outcome towards your favorite canon characters and nations is alls that has been put up. You don't want to admit you can't get away from canon, as it means the entire reason for ripping the game disappears.
The entire history of Terra is forever changed without the WMDs. Without the nuclear bomb, nuclear reactors would not have come about. There would not have been a race to make the bomb, so finding out you could use it for normal power generation would have been unlikely. Having Biological and Chemical warfare removed would have prevented a lot of medical breakthrus as well. This is also removing the rage moments of the world, as they would not have been there. Germany concentration camps used those items. Horrible as it is, removing this means Isreal would not have been formed. So already things are changed beyond just a footnote.
So your complaints about the logic holes in the game were fake? Saying logic doesn't support the story lines actions, but yet you just said that logic doesn't matter. You are saying everyone in the SLDF believed the same thing Kerensky did? The lure of becoming the head of the SLDF if Kerensky died, and risking that to attack the defenses you know are there as they were once your own wouldn't cause a change of tactics or even just ignoring it until the houses decided to finally figure out they were next if Amaris stayed?
What is an adventure pack? A recreation of the battle that happened in the game. Bringing in your own custom units, or changing the rules means you are not fighting a battle that happened. It becomes another death match using someone elses design. At this point, why bother with even trying to play an historic battle?
So? Write in a new character to take his place.
So now magic comes out yet again. A main character dies, so you simply spring in a new one. Major logic fail here, as the son of Justin and Candace was there to do specific things, yet now you suggest some new character can just walk in and not change the entire chain of events? Maybe you forgot Kai was part of the force the fought against comstar when it initiated operation Scorpion, as well as gained respect in the Falcons Elementals. Now you suggest someone else will become Victor's friend and just do this. How is the story line consistent?
The war can be changed, but the future beyond it can not run in canon. The events that lead to specific things, like Kerensky taking the SLDF out of the IS, and that also means Nicholas does not have the events that causes him to even make the clans, doesn't come about. Trying to force other events to push it back on course is doing the same thing you accuse the writers of.
In the end, you are doing what you accuse them of. Pushing things so your favored faction/character wins, by changing the past.
Show an Alt. Create a new future. Continuing to say canon bites yet not getting rid of it suggest you are writing a story that bites because it IS based on canon.
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Karagin
08/05/21 01:55 PM
70.118.172.64
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If all he wants to do is tell us that BT canon has issues and problems, then he is talking to the echo chamber, we already know that.
Removing WMDs and warships does nerf the game. Those two things are the bigger stick and while warships in the hands of the players are not the end-all of things, they can be if abused however, so can custom mechs, but allowing players to have the ability to toss a nuke or a hundred around is a bad idea and it was a mistake of CGL to ever give rules for their use.
The issue is Requiem doesn't seem to understand alternate history. He continues to think that he can make his changes and the end is still going to be the same. Not how it works. Even minor changes will cause ripples and the idea that the story or history is a river is the worse analogy I heard to date. We can look back at events and see where a simple pause could have stopped certain events, or if someone had not gotten involved with a certain faction or someone was not saved from slipping in the shower, all of that means the outcome of events going forward will be different. Yes, the war will likely happen but for example, if the arrow had missed Harlod that day then William and his Normans would have been harder pressed in the fight to take England. Would they have eventually done so? Maybe, but it would not have been the victory we know from our current history. It would also mean that the character of England what happens going forward would be different. Just different enough that minor things stand out and that is what makes alternate histories interesting.
The TV show SLIDERS did pretty well at that, not always but most of the time, and that allowed the show to be popular and offer a nice series of what if's. I have listed several authors who do a good job at showing alternate histories and if Requiem would read the books/series he would find that the characters are fleshed out to deal with the events of the times that happen AFTER the POINT OF DEPARTURE, and again Requiem, a POD is where the alternate history makes it turn AWAY from the known historical outcome and then goes forward to show what changed and how that plays out. This is something you need to really grasp and so far all you have done is continues to show that you will not take heed of it or understand the concept.
Plenty of folks here on Sarna have shared their ideas for Alternate BT universes or events, and all of them have enough changes that while events are similar they are different enough the entire outcome of the future history of the game would be vastly different from what we know. Which is the point. You want things to be different, okay, yet you always want the same canon events to happen but only by your way of thinking, not how it works. If you add in a new character or event chain to the history of the universe the is Battletech changes will ripple outward. My examples about Allard are good points of departure for someone to run with. Things would have been totally different for Victor and the FedCom military if Allard was out of the picture as a warrior fighting alongside them. That would then affect how the outcome of the invasion corridors go for the Falcons and the Wolves and possible it would mean they don't have a harder time against the FedCom because Victor doesn't have Allard there to be that voice of reason and logic. It also means that the issues between the Allards and the Laios would also play out differently, because now the rising star is a cripple (or dead) and thus the other siblings of Kia's aren't the same caliber, thus no real threat to the Celestial Throne. Thus no assassins in the middle of the night killing Justin, and possibly no real change for House Laio overall. Maybe.
So right there you have a cause and effect chain, one that can be adjusted or modified to make it far worse or slightly better or even over the top, but things will have changed across the board. That is the part you keep ignoring.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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ghostrider
08/05/21 03:37 PM
45.51.181.83
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The example of this thread shows canon story line can not be maintained when events are changed.
To increase the military size, would mean there would be no reason for the SL to send so many of it's own troops to put down the Periphery rebellion that Amaris would not have gotten his shot. If agreed upon, the houses would have had to send more to deal with the periphery.
Saying the tech level increases in the houses, then there would come a time where they would not need the SL. The fact that all the houses would expand their armies with higher tech would have made the SL war come sooner, as the houses would have ignored any directive to stop such an action. The Periphery Rebellion would have ended the SL before Amaris could do anything. The fact the 1st succession wars would probably have started sooner, and the houses would have found the SL didn't have enough pull to keep the houses from demanding the Cameron line step down as first lord so one of them could take over.
It is also likely the houses would have went after the periphery on their own. Or started annexing worlds as they had the power to do so. If any opposing house said anything, then they would have their own examples brought out. ALL the iS houses would be doing this to the periphery realms. The houses would have struck the SLDF immediately after the Amaris war (if that still happened) with the idea that their military would allow them to remain on the throne.
As the first lord would not allow the tech to be let out, he would have had to really start more unpopular actions, possibly including arresting scientists and such that were working on forbidden tech. There would also be strikes to obtain that tech from the other houses as well, lest they be left being conquered from not having it.
Simple logic comes into play.
Double sinks would allow one house to dominate their neighbors within a few years of it being produced. This is especially true for the navy. Half the sinks means more weapons and armor can be put on those ships. This also allows better space defense weapon platforms.
The idea of the Starwars defense laser system comes to mind. I can strike out, but you can't do anything back mindset comes about.
This also means the SL would have to advance their tech faster to keep ahead. Or worse, one of the houses gain something approaching clan tech before the SL break up. The Blackbox being made by one of the houses over the SL, meaning they could sidestep the SL intel services even more.
Look at what the single raid the LC did against Defiance before they gained control of the assets. They stole the tech to making mechs. This changed the entire future from what it would be without it. As it was plot armor, it was always meant to be, but once out, it changed the balance of power.
But the logic that comes from such a change is ignored, as it removes the advantage for the favored house. Better tech before the 1st war means the outcome in 3025 is different, as the higher level tech isn't likely to have been forgotten. If the SL was the only one that could produce it, that makes it more likely to be lost when the SL worlds were destroyed.
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Karagin
08/05/21 04:26 PM
70.118.172.64
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How is the tech going to increase? The Terrans kept the good stuff for themselves and while we know the Houses were working on their own cool high-tech wonder toys, that means for the most part the high-tech isn't getting to the House militaries or the citizens.
A real-world example, the US Army has tons of high-tech things in its arsenal, it's an open secret that the majority of this stuff NEVER makes to the main body of troops. And by the time it does make it down to all the other units, it's already been replaced by something new. I doubt very much if that will change in the future.
The idea of the high-tech wonder stuff is important is that the Terrans can use the stuff as part of trade agreements and favored nation status, plus it also means the spare parts and such ONLY come from Terran factories, thus a stranglehold on things. So that alone would keep the high-tech OUT of the Houses hands. Money talks.
If the SLDF doesn't go fight FULLY aka en-masse in the Periphery, then there is NO WAY IN HELL Amaris is going to be able to pull off his coup. Not sure what is so hard for him to understand hat.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Requiem
08/05/21 08:10 PM
124.184.171.41
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Quote:
Nukes
Nukes are just a flashy prop!
Worlds can be come inaccessible through environmental conditions, economics the mines runs out, depopulation due to a gold rush on adjacent world and the major corporations decide to pull up stakes and leave …
Battles do not have to include WMDs – conventional vehicles only – and still get the same result.
Do you miss when Battletech first started and there were no WMDs at all … or do you believe the game has been improved by just Nuking everyone and everything off the table when you want to act like a petulant child?
With dams, if just a modicum of research was undertaken, engineers build into the structure a means of demolishing the structure through conventional explosives if they are placed in the correct locations. Then the force of the water behind the dam will cause it to fracture. Then the dam busters, No. 617 Squadron RAF, Operation Chastise – Fact, this is a true story! … they did attack the Mohne, Eder, and Sorpe dams in Nazi Germany with Barnes Wallis’s bouncing bomb. Conventional Explosives at the back wall with the water at a certain depth .. the water then does all the work!
As for nuclear generators … why does any world need them at all? … the game uses Fusion Engines that lasts for decades, runs on “light” hydrogen – no waste products that need long term storage … they can be used in place of a centuries old energy system that has been proven to be detrimental … and they are made on mass for all shipping so really what is the point of re-creating nuclear when your worlds are engaging in mass and constant warfare – if a Fusion power plant is damaged does it affect the world? – if a nuclear power plant, however, is hit you have a massive clean-up problem … REALLY? Why would anyone knowingly create such a powerplant on any world where they know they are going to be constantly attacked? Then there is the economic issue … Fusion Engines are manufactured en mass for the game … thus costs are low …. How much does a Nuclear reactor cost – and how about the fuel – cost / transport safety etc …Very high cost … so again what is the point of establishing a financial black hole on any world that is also toxic to the environment … then there is also the fact that Fusion Engines can be moved from one world to another (transportability) … can this be said with Nuclear?
Quote:
story being a river
Once you allow Warship WMDs into the game the idea of having Mechs in the game at all becomes ridiculous ….
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Palmyra_Disaster
Really? warships raining death and destruction on any world – all military forces can be easily identified using advanced detection equipment and then sterilized from the world; fleet numbers are now way more important than regiment of Mechs numbers or an Ayres convention where they are not allowed anywhere near the world and a return to Mechs it also still allows for space warship battles – please choose?
Quote:
ripping the cannon
Creating new individuals is a way to create new dynamics / plot lines within the story line – you can make it as flashy or as benign as you want … freedom of being the author.
You can stick with or move away from canon … freedom of being the author.
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Without the nuclear bomb, nuclear reactors would not have come about
Within the 20th Century yes …. But where are we in the BattleTech universe and what era are we in? They are superfluous, it would be like saying we need horse and carts brought back en mass …
Pharmaceutical research is now involving biological warfare? Really? Again all of this occurred in the past We are discussing the far future .. where in all likelihood they do not exist, that is unless you want every terrorist group within the IS running around with WMDs – nuclear, biological, chemical as it has now become incredibly easy to manufacture in the distant future! Wow, this is going to be such a great game to play now that is has devolved down to whom can kill of the other with WMDs the quickest! (Satire)
Quote:
logic
Is it believable … is it credible … is there another way … can engineering / R&D find a way forward (where the game says it cannot) … is there a tactic / strategy that should be considered that wasn’t used …. has Cannon killed off strategies / units that were used previously … did cannon even consider the idea (logistics – tyranny of distance …) … and the list goes on and on
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adventure pack
Staying with the same tired version of events that is.
If you want to go down this track … fine, if this is what you want. It is just not for me.
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character change – how is the story line consistent
Its not he same – as the writer you can use this – so Kai dies, how about bringing in a sanitized or not so sanitized Kali Liao (likes it rough) … again at the discretion of the writer … and would make for an interesting plot twist Kali Vs. Omika for Victor if you wanted to add way more spice to the human side of the game.
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The war can be changed, but the future beyond it cannot run in canon.
This is at the discretion of GM / writer … plot twists …. If they want to go with canon or deviate …. Nicholas does not have to be the sole creator of the Clans … Amaris’s children could have … other exiles from other time-lines could have …. Just create a credible back story …
So, the conversation is now about me, not with me!
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Those two things are the bigger stick
If they are in the game … then the players must have access to them. Or are we going back to Turtle Bay .. the Clans are allowed sole use of all WMDs and the IS are told by canon - NO you are not allowed anything as a counter measure to any Clan Warship scenario other than conventional aerospace fighters?
Great game (satire)
Ever considered there could have been multiple Battle of Hastings spread over years that could have resulted in the same outcome?
Question – If the past is fixed and cannot be changed, and the future is fluid, does this mean the future is not there until we arrive to make it happen; or is it there waiting for us to change it? As defined by trillions of variables all occurring at random time intervals …
Question – when discussing Alternatives to the Clan Invasion war of 3050 I was told that it was too deviant from canon to be considered a reality and every major plot twist taking the story far away from canon was wrong. Now I am told I am too similar … which is it?
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Saying the tech level increases in the houses, then there would come a time where they would not need the SL.
The Star League is supposed to be the Camelot of its day … if it was run by a dysfunctional family who believed in reading the entrails of offering to the gods that is … it was only partially to do with technology, it was supposed to be about morality, human rights, ethics etc …. it also includes treachery ….
Sorry to burst your bubble but the first Lord of the Star League was based upon how many promises regarding trade and economics and where the SLDF was only to be peacekeepers like the UN has now - guards to preserve the borders and to protect humanitarian efforts …. In order to for each house to sign onto the accords how many promises were made with regards to technology and free trade economics?
Treaty of Geneva – combined economics / single currency – allow the export of some advanced technology
New Avalon Accords – Security Peacekeepers
New Avalon Accords – Security Peacekeepers
Treaty of Vega – following many concessions (which were never elaborated upon)
All this would have to be made public with the final document The Star League Accords …
Economics – Single Currency – export of advanced technology
SLDF - Security Peacekeepers
Each House is to supply the SLDF a quota of soldiers and Military Technology to the SLDF each year …
So each house is required to reduce their own military production by assisting with the establishment and the future increasing of the size of the SLDF (where as the 2650 accord restricted their own military size)
And what were each House to get out of this, please do remind me?
Where is the logic in any House joining a Star League where it is clear to see all they are going to get is a good <BLEEEP>.
Technological disparity has been in existence for how long now? And how many use it as a bully pulpit?
Research and Development of military equipment – any house could have easily surpassed the TH – why the TH was superior all the time suggests more of ComStar tactics in reducing technological advancement …
Quote:
LC Defiance Raid
Really? Question – how long would it have taken the LC to R&D their own Mech rather than stealing it? 1-2, 5 years more R&D before they were able to establish their own ….
Example – Nuclear proliferation – how many countries had access to Trinity and how many didn’t and yet now they have the bomb.
LC may not have needed to steal the blueprints whatsoever – they could have had their own ready to go and it was merely just an information fact finding mission ….
The same with all other houses, how long until their R&D should be able to create their own version of the Mech?
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How is the tech going to increase?
And yet how many times within the game have House units made a side deal for tech and how many times should reverse engineering of new equipment on the Terran market assisted House markets …. Copyright law is a major problem now … now so in the far future when you can smuggle out tech so that it can be reverse engineered?
Why have advanced military tech if you are not going deploy it … train with it and get it ready for combat operations? … yes this makes absolute sense (satire)
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thus a stranglehold on things.
And yet if you change one thing in the machine it is no longer covered by copyright the House can make their own via reverse engineering and they can mass produce within their own factories thus profits and kept internal (rather than paying a licensing fee) … yes money and internal security procedures does talk.
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Coup
And how many exercises are conducted outside the TH? And how many coups involved officers within the chain of command and not external to it? If Amaris had a daughter, he could have even married her to Richard …
There is more than one way to start a Coup than starting a war within the periphery.
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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ghostrider
08/05/21 09:41 PM
45.51.181.83
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Do you miss when Battletech first started and there were no WMDs at all
Actually, there were WMD, just not something the player had access to. The idea that planets were nuked, and even some scenarios suggesting areas of worlds were still radioactive where there. When the first rules came out, radioactive materials were needed to build reactors, which got pulled out after a while, making the whole need for the reactors shielding to be unnecessary for dealing with a leaking radioactive reactor.
There were other instances that had bio and chemical weapons referenced as well. The entire back story of the SLDF being hit by and using them was there.
Yes, you can destroy dams without nukes. The fluff was using nukes to stop the DC from taking Skye without using them against the DC troops directly.
With saying you can't stop using WMDs if you start using them, then you would have to remove them from ALL of history. Meaning the time frame of WWII. So which is it? Remove them, or just don't use them?
I had a lot more done up, but timed out, and don't really have time to re address the rest at the moment.
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Karagin
08/05/21 10:16 PM
70.118.172.64
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Having WMDs in the story is fine, but not for players to use. They should be completely in the hands of the PTB.
Every power in the Inner Sphere has used WMD. Be it nukes or bio or chemical weapons, they have all used them and if pushed too far, will use them again.
There is a point where they stop using them, when they run out of targets for them.
The use of that tactical nuke was I believe after a conventional attack had failed to blow the dam up.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Requiem
08/05/21 10:53 PM
124.184.171.41
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Quote:
just not something the player had access to
And therefore, a prop, that was never really thought through - and as the player now does have access?
Reactors that in all reality were never required … therefore no radioactive materials … therefore no bombs.
The entire WMD being included into the game was a mistake that we are paying for now
The Jihad era and beyond – the game is devolving – it’s canon history has become less agreeable to the point I must create my own to restore some sanity …
YES! Remove them all from a point in history say here and no further! There should be a point where humanity becomes so revolted by them that the concept can no longer be tolerated by anyone.
The use of any of them within the game is removed once and for all!
If you want to extend logical thought through to its end then what do you get if you allow WMDs into the game? M.A.D. is the end-by-product – all inhabited worlds will be destroyed by armadas of ships who’s one solitary purpose is to eliminate all life from an enemy world – Palmyra is the fist step towards this reality!
Fleets of ships are now king of he Battlefield – BattleMechs are no longer required at all as we have the orbital bombardment to keep worlds in line – this is what would be said about Palmyra … it is the World War I of it day, as not only did it cause an immediate successor, WWII, but it has directly or indirectly served as a background for everything since ….the only issue is that the canon writers stopped … where is Palmyra II and III each increasing in the intensity of world destruction via fleets to a single ship?
Losses in each of these tragedies will be unprecedented in all of BattleTech’s canon history, and will not stop the wars to come … they will go on and on …
This is why you have your Battle of Marne! And as a consequence locked into an endless morass of WMD wars ….
The choice, therefore, should have been made prior to Jihad -from the ashes of Turtle Bay – A new Clan / IS Ayres treaty the total and utter extinction of WMDs within the game. But that time now is lost and now we have to contend with the Jihad and Palmyra.
So the choice is, for me at least, create an Inner Spere where all WMDs are no more – where I can change history to create more and more dynamic scenarios – where I can create wars / adventures that allow your team to venture far beyond the stand game as is?
This is my choice – revealing the story as conflict and politics and the common woman / man tells us create spice and transformation …
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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ghostrider
08/06/21 03:19 AM
45.51.181.83
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It is human nature that some will always turn towards WMD to at least extort others into doing their bidding, while others have the idea of destroying them all. Players should NEVER get these weapons, though technically, any sort of military vehicle could become such a thing.
The radiation issue was that the fusion engine was originally said to have radioactive materials in them, which is why they needed shielding not only in the reactor area, but also in vehicles. This part was removed rather quickly. Nuclear reactors are always radioactive in nature. It is part of how they produce power. To be honest, nuclear energy is far more efficient then coal and gas power. Given the future does have ships they can reach outer space easily, with some ships actually going to a star to scoop up fuel, it would be very easy to dump off the waste materials in those stars.
The Jihad era looks to be very lazy writing, as there wasn't a boogie man they could come up with to challenge the houses. The clans were their last real shot of something other then each house going after each other. Now the clans are part of the IS, which kind of allows conflict there, but the whole thing falls apart with the lack of building clan equipment.
But the RoTS and Jihad would not exist if something was altered in the past. But oh well.
Fleets of ships were never a problem. Naval weapons on ships that could use them is. And the lack of naval weapons used in ground batteries to destroy those very ships, except as part of the SDS shows retcons do not work most of the time. Had they had such things, New Avalon would not have been taken by the DC in the later story lines.
But again, the cycle goes back to if no one can land forces on worlds, then the game dies. As stated before, warships should have remained dead.
Again, nukes were a deterrent for war. They are not bad in their own way, but the fact there will always be someone willing to use them. For the most part, no one uses them as they know they will not get away scott free if they use them. And there is also the reason why resources have to be rather scarce. No one wants to nuke them, as they need them as much as the enemy does. If they can get them elsewhere, well nukes will fall like rain. Stupid, but then humanity was never good about greedy people trying to extort and threaten everyone. Power corrupts sentiment.
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ghostrider
08/06/21 03:33 AM
45.51.181.83
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The issue with sticking with canon after trying to alter events shows the complaint that canon is built on faulty logic doesn't work. A simple change this part doesn't fix the issue, and most of the time creates more issues. Something that seems to not register. I have not seen anything that fixes the issue like you think.
Is it believable … is it credible
The answer comes out to be no for the most part. This is not about some galaxy far away. It is set in the future of humans from Terra. Having something like the Star League not falling means the events of 3025 are not credible if they follow anything close to canon. So much would have changed, and this fact is completely being ignored with the story line. There is no real way to spin this and be believable or credible.
Adventure packs are set up so you can fight the 'historic' battles of the game. It is highly unlikely it will play out as the storyline has going. But it does give you the chance to do so. Having the rules in place helps keep the scenario close to the 'actual' battle as described. There will always be flukes that come about, such as the head shots killing the person that is supposed to survive. Even just a bad die roll, like falling down and landing on the head killing someone has happened. But changing the rules means you change the potential outcome. The concept of say not being able to travel along a side of the map for one group would suggest that they would not even try, as they were trying to do their job, and avoid being stuck behind enemy lines.
Pilots don't want to die most of the time. So standing in the middle of the enemy column isn't a bright idea.
The idea of RWR forces becoming the clans is possible, but they would not come out the same as Kerensky's clans. The entire basis of them would be far different then Nicholas. It is doubtful the clans would put a restriction on the number of warriors in each force, as well as doubtful they would have waited so long. They would be more likely to try and conquer the IS just as the 2nd war started to end. There would be no guardian aspect in their mindset. They would be out for payback.
This is why logic says there is no way to use canon by changing things like this.
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ghostrider
08/06/21 03:43 AM
45.51.181.83
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The difference between companies today and something like the SL is how things would be handled. The SL would not stop and wait years for a trial for someone stealing their tech. They would go and kill all involved in such an action, while today would have the affair tied up in the courts for years. There is only one nation that produces certain items. You coming out with something like it means it is probably stolen, and they will investigate it. If true, then people will die. But until then, any production of the item will be found as a guilty verdict and stopped with force.
You keep showing the very facts of humanity, yet want to suggest that corporations and people in power won't do nasty things to stay there. There will always be someone using their power to prevent others from gaining on them. Leaving politics out of it, there are so many greedy people in corporations that do just that. Generic drugs are prevented from being made for 5 years after the name brand comes out. Yet the corporations make sure that they tie the generic versions up in court so they can extend the lack of competition to 12 and even 20 years. Something like a weapon would definitely be keep in the hands of the specific few for as long as they could.
As mechs came about due to the myomer breakthru, it is very possible the houses would never have gotten mechs if not stolen from the SL. That is not saying it would be impossible for them to research it. But the thing comstar did with HPG research would be done by the SL and other houses, though the other houses would try and steal the research while trying to deny it to another house.
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Requiem
08/06/21 06:04 AM
124.184.171.41
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Quote:
It is human nature that some will always turn towards WMD to at least extort others into doing their bidding
Completely and utterly disagree!
Though it is your Inner Sphere not mine … if this is the track you want to take and your group is happy with it, enjoy.
Question – what happens if your next assignment is to run a clan / IS warship blockade and your side doesn’t have any warships to protect them? Or your era is early clan invasion – what then?
Just going to ignore the fact that your side’s only hope is Nukes or a Kamikaze run on the bridge of the ship by one of your aerospace fighters?
Or just create scenarios where this type of event can never occur to your unit? And in so doing sensitize the games dynamics because of nukes …..
There really is no good answer … the game devolves all because of the need to have a limited game by limiting the response of one side versus the other – and makes a complete mockery out the idea that combat engineers / civilian engineers can make a short-term gap … ie the PT attack dropship!
Question – what happens if your group rebels and states that they want nukes etc – even if it means replacing the GM?
Quote:
it would be very easy to dump off the waste materials in those stars
If there are no nuclear powerplants there are no problems …
Problems –
Transport to the power plant
Storage in the power-plant
Nuclear melt down
Waste product storage
Waste product transport – especially within dropship – explosion in atmosphere!
Transport in space – pirates stealing the cargo – dirty bomb!
Then there is the issue of cost for all of this versus a fusion power plant where it can run on water!
Really, having a nuclear power plant it is not wort the hassle.
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jihad era
Massive error … as stated previously … kick out all the clans from the IS (that do not defect), then Rave round 2 with the Clans within the Deep periphery (as can anyone explain how you are expected to live next door to a Mongol warrior in peace?)… new house could emerge, new challenges etc
As for the IS low level wars for the time being and after a couple hundred years the SL Mk 2 can fall over in another spectacular war or the reformed Clans from their own Star League with the new Houses and it is war between the two variants of star leagues … there are many concepts other than the Jihad era (Flop of a history!)
Quote:
warships
Too late just like all WMDs Warships have returned - thus another option has to be created, or the point of having Mechs at all flies out the window – then there is the point of armed merchantmen where are they in the game if you can still make Naval weapons?
So there really is only one solution – Ayres rules of war! Or change the game to Naval as Mechs have been completely superseded!
And New Avalon has been taken! And just like before all clergy were executed!
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There is no real way to spin this and be believable or credible
Then please provide reasons why.
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Having something like the Star League not falling means the events of 3025 are not credible …
Comes down to semantics – the Terran Hegemony and ‘others’ may have survived retaining a smaller Star League – whilst others are off on their own (attempting to take over the remining Star League so as to become the new First Lord … thus the Lyran Commonwealth and Federated Suns Team up to take over the remaining Terran Hegemony … and become the Federated Commonwealth in the process …
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Adventure games
To fight warts and all …
Not my idea of fun using another person’s Mechs and People
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they would not come out the same as Kerensky’s clans
Lets hope not! Deranged is not a good idea …
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how they would handle it
Mercenaries is always a good idea …
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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ghostrider
08/06/21 11:52 AM
45.51.181.83
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The tactic of hit and run in order to draw out a defender with large groups of smaller units has been effective in the past. Most clan warships did not have fighter escorts built in, and normally didn't have that much when carrying fighter carriers.
This is much like a raid. This is not saying there will not be losses, or that the entire group won't get wiped out. Given the higher to hit numbers, it is very possible for smaller ships to do some major damage to a warship and survive, This does tend to have issues with the game suggesting dropships are not as numerous as you would want to even try this.
Actually there is no NEED for nukes or Kamikaze runs. Simply focusing attacks on sections would work. As stated in one of the novels, ships focus their attacks on the engines to slow a warship down, then hit the nose/bridge area. Without a fighter escort, clan warships were weak to fighter attacks. The naval grade weapons don't target them. The game does not seem to have any rules for special targeting of things, like a shut down mech can have against it. It also doesn't seem to allow a fighter to basically hover or even just grapple with a warship to focus it's shots on a single location. The only issue with warships is when they were first brought back, no one in the IS would know where the bridge is. After that, it would be the main focus even before the engines, as it doesn't seem the bridge is well protected. Non nuclear bombs and large missiles, such as Arrow IV, should be used to target such locations. This is even before naval missiles were used.
Most of the examples explain why the canon line can not be maintained with most of the changes. The FC would not come about with a large hostile nation sitting in between the two states. In fact the LC would be hurting in the economics department, as the SL would prevent regular trade between the LC and the FS/CC. They would be limited to the DC/FWL/TH for the most part. During times of peace, they could trade better, but in order for the FC to work, they would have to destroy the TH. Since the TH would not become part of it, that is not going to happen.
The treaty between the DC/FWL/CC during the 4th war only happened because Comstar made it happen.
Which also brings up the question on if Comstar would have even come about if the SL lived? There is a whole slew of issues with that one.
Not my idea of fun using another person’s Mechs and People
The fun in the game is playing. Not having munchy units and over powered characters means you actually have to use tactics and think to win.
But beyond this, the statement shows why you believe you can change important chunks of the story and still return to canon afterwards. It would be like saying Katrina was captured by her uncle and put to death, but the FC was still formed. You just added in a new Steiner to take the LC from the uncle to make it? Doesn't have believability to it, nor is it credible. But these concepts still don't seem to sink in.
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Karagin
08/06/21 05:41 PM
70.118.172.64
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The big issue here, besides Requiem's not wanting to listen to advice, is that IF we go with his idea that the Terran Hegemony stays, aka the SLDF pull into its borders and defends it against the now hostile House Lords, then EVERYTHING changes from that point forward.
Nothing would be remotely like the canon we know, tech would not fall, worlds would not be in any better shape, but some may not see the horrors of the WMD use but others will. The Houses will be fighting on multiple fronts as would the Terrans, and really who is going to gang up on who? The whole concept means only one group would be the logical target and that's the Terrans...
So there is no logical need for a Lyran-Federated Alliance. Now a Mairk-Lyran Alliance that could be logical in this Requiemesquest universe. Or a Capellan-Mairk Alliance or a Capellan-Suns Alliance or maybe a Terran-Combine Alliance.
If it's not fun to use someone else's mechs and people to play then how do you play Battletech?
The cool thing about player-made mechs, rules state folks have to agree to use them in a game. Cool, so I guess that's one way to play, no homemade mechs. Or the player-made mechs are allowed for all players to use since the design would eventually spread all over the Inner Sphere.
As for another person's people...if you are talking about characters and such aka NPC, who said you had to use them? I don't like half the characters we have in the canon universe, I find many to be shallow and badly written, but then again I don't play canon-based settings. My group has pretty much run its own twist on things, and since normally we are not dealing with world-changing events the canon characters aren't an issue. IF we need to bump up against a canon event or setting, then we adjust things to allow our staff to work for us.
I am really starting to believe that many of you think folks play canon as if every battle has to be fought on a world that is being attacked by X or Y group and your forces are part of those canon units, while that might appeal to you, that's not how the majority play.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Requiem
08/06/21 07:19 PM
124.184.171.41
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Quote:
Warships
After fighting warship engagements for how many centuries no one has come up with a way of protecting the engines from aerospace fighter attack?
And after the first attack run no one learns from how the Inner Sphere wages war and decides to implement counter measures?
Also considering when the first Arrow IV Anti-ship missile was introduced – 3071 – Really?
Bring in Clan Warships and don’t ever provide the IS with an effective counter measure – What the ? Not even Nukes!!!!
Treating the players of the IS as the enemy is a great way to lose people to other games!!!!
As for damage between capital and standard – isn’t this very low when considering the sheer size and armour of a warship?
This is why everyone, in my opinion, needs to bring in house rules and dump the canon rules as to what is and what is not allowed in …
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Most Clan Warships did not have fighter escorts built in
Conqueror – 100 Fighters
McKenna – 50 Fighters
York – 50 Fighters
Texas – 40 Fighters
Liberator – 30 Fighters
Aegis – 20 Fighters
Cameron – 20 Fighters
Corone – 20 Fighters
Fredasa – 20 Fighters
Molniya – 20 Fighters
Nightlord – 20 Fighters
Sovetskii Soyuz – 20 Fighters
Black Lion – 18 Fighters
Peregrine – 10 Fighters
Whirlwind – 10 Fighters
Vincent – 10 or 6 Fighters
Congress – 6 Fighters
Essex – 6 Fighters
Lola III – 6 Fighters
Volga – 2 Fighters
Carrack - Nil
Potemkin – Nil
As for the bridge – haven’t many of the ships pictured have a large span on glass on the upper hull that would be illuminated by the light within? Also, Airlocks and Bay Doors – would they have markings on them to identify their locations?
Also, wouldn’t every House have records of warships (including schematics) from the time of the Star League or even pictures of them from tours on board – people serving on them – etc etc?
So the idea there is no information on them is a complete and utter improbability – just the same as the loss of all information on all specialist topics is sooooo ever believable !!!!!!
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The FC would not come about with a large hostile nation sitting in between the two states
Conjecture only.
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the LC would be hurting in the economics department, as the SL would prevent regular trade between the LC and the FS/CC.
No, as proven above with the signing of all treaties the original star league was primarily there for economic (free trade) and UN border security details only! It only morphed into the despot Overlord with a massive army / navy later.
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but in order for the FC to work, they would have to destroy the TH.
Unless they go around the TH – through the DC or CC and FWL.
Or the TH provides a treaty and allows the FC to transport their military with no consequences.
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the DC/FWL/CC during the 4th war only happened because Comstar made it happen.
Really? – The biggest Army and the Biggest economy have just stated their intention to become one state and no one says hey, maybe we should form our own group to protect ourselves from the next succession war?
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the question on if Comstar would have even come about if the SL lived
Yes but as a corporation(s) not as a quasi religious group.
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The fun in the game is playing. Not having munchy units and over powered characters means you actually have to use tactics and think to win.
And I don’t use tactics in my games?
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why you believe you can change important chunks of the story and still return to canon afterwards
Quote:
then EVERYTHING changes from that point forward.
What is important is the machine not the hand on the crank
Topics – Star League era – Amaris Coup – succession wars – FC birth - 4th succession war – 3039 war – clan invasion can all be recreated as main topics as desired – new names can very easily be inserted with new plot twists thrown in – it is a very simple exercise in logic and can still be very credible.
Also, all technology can be retained and expanded upon if this is the way the writer wants to go …. Very easy!
Sorry but no - everything does not have to change ! I change certain settings but still the underlying play does not change.
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then how do you play Battletech?
My own unit, with the characters I have created - running long term scenarios ….
Edited by Requiem (08/06/21 07:23 PM)
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ghostrider
08/06/21 08:53 PM
45.51.181.83
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First off, the reintroduction of warships were mainly based on SL versions. The clans used fighters, but it seems they were not normally used in space, but in atmospheres. This makes sense as the clans disliked vehicles for fighting. So instead of normal Vtols and fixed wings, they used Aerofighters.
Second off, where, other then the clans, did centuries of figthing warships come from after the SL fell?
The argument of effective counters to warships is only valid AFTER the IS got up to speed with naval weapons. But then the concept of no advanced weapons until the helm core would be a better argument. Even with Comstar trying to keep normal SL tech out of the hands of the IS, there had to be plenty of examples that should have been retroengineered, but wasn't.
The clans did not use fighters like the IS did, so replacing their bays with other things, like additional weapons or space for mechs would be normal.
Funny that the Bring in Clan Warships and don’t ever provide the IS with an effective counter measure statement is false. The IS DID get effective counter measures, though the use of them was not against the clans so much as other houses. The IS did get to build warships. Timing is the key.
One point about the location of the bridges. The IS finally got blueprints of old SLDF ships from the helm core. Otherwise they would not be in the books. This subject was brought up in other threads about having the bridge on the outside with all that glass. They should be close to the jump core to prevent such a strike from wiping out control of a warship.
No, as proven above with the signing of all treaties the original star league was primarily there for economic (free trade) and UN border security details only! It only morphed into the despot Overlord with a massive army / navy later.
Did you not say the SL would become a hostile state as the only thing left would be the TH portion of it? Once this happens war would start wiping out or capturing trade ships going thru the TH. Or did war change?
The TH/SL would not allow trade ships to move thru their areas if they were connected to hostile nations. Again, I have to question weither you understand warfare. The FC would not happen if the TH was still a state, especially if they were attacked by either the FS or the LC.
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ghostrider
08/06/21 09:08 PM
45.51.181.83
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Think before responding.
Really? – The biggest Army and the Biggest economy have just stated their intention to become one state and no one says hey, maybe we should form our own group to protect ourselves from the next succession war?
If Comstar had remained neutral like it was supposed to, the communications would have been denied setting this up, of force the FC to shut down the HPG between the DC and FWL/CC, they would have had to do it the old fashion way, and use jumpships to send communications. Simple facts.
No secured instant coms. Jumpships being seized as they would have to jump thru war zones in order to get to one another. Or did stopping the enemies from communicating with each other get dropped from wars?
Comstar was formed to keep the HPG network alive. If the SLDF didn't leave, why would this be necessary? It would remain as part of the SL, not become their own company. And Blake would not be in charge at any rate. IF and that is a big IF, they were spun off into a 'neutral' company, someone loyal to the person in charge would be appointed, not Blake.
And I don’t use tactics in my games?
From a lot of the responses in the forums, it is questionable about how much, other then dropping your full forces on everything, that is done in tactics. Always hear how everything comes from one base, and you send everything you have. SO brute force seems to be the main, if not only, option you use. The posts are what we have to go by.
The TH being in existence, even in a shrunken state, would have prevented a lot of worlds from falling into the hands of the houses. Some of those worlds do have mech factories on them that the houses used to create their armies. Not just defiance but others. As stated before, Dieron was part of the TH. That would mean the DC would not have the DIeron district.
As the SLDF had the major facilites to product warships, how long do you think the houses could withstand them or even try to attack TH worlds?
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Requiem
08/07/21 05:50 AM
124.184.171.41
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How many times did the IS ascertained themselves to be a threat to a warship?
Battle of Radstadt
The Flying Drakons, Tyra Miraborg, and the Dire Wolf is about the only one I can remember and that involved 24 IS aerospace fighters and 5 combat dropships Vs. the Dire Wolf (Sovetskii Soyuz Class Warship) – 4 Overlord class Drop-ships and 10 aerospace fighters.
Which again shows how the IS were hobbled against when fighting the Clans!
The Drakons should have been an 108 aerospace strong force; No aerospace ship killer missiles; Nothing resembling that they should have been prepared in advance for contact against warships, after all it was common knowledge that the Clans possesses them and they were escorting the Norseman and Haakon Magnusson. So where were any real defences against a clan warship - why were they not prepared for the unexpected? In my opinion they should have at least a couple of nukes on board when you consider the number of nukes that were flung around during the Jihad era! (Did no one raid the nuclear vault!)
During the age of war and the Star League Era how many warship battles occurred?
The argument of effective counters to warships is therefore valid – where are the documents regarding tactics? Didn’t anyone ever decide to look in the library and dig them out once reports came in that they had identified Star League Era Warships on the Battlefield? What were the records department of the military as well as civilians who researched them as a hobby doing (just like those today like to research fleet ships / historical military information / or even information held within the audio-visual vaults doing? Taking a nap?
The idea that all knowledge has been expunged and included this as well now shows how absurd the hypothesis is as to Comstars ability to expunge information from all Houses!
So where is any preparation by any house as to how to engage a warship? where and when are IS aerospace fighters conducting mock attack drills – the Mechwarriors have simulators don’t they? So where are the aerospace versions and how hard would it be to create training programs based upon historical information?
Really the Clan invasion is a mass of problems that were never though through at all!!!!!
Quote:
Timing is the key
Really???????? - The first Arrow IV Anti-ship missile was introduced – 3071 – 21 years AFTER the Clans invaded. So, Yes the timing is perfect (Satire!!!!)
Quote:
The IS finally got blueprints of old SLDF ships from the helm core.
And again, what were the department of records etc doing?? Taking another nap or tea with bickies this time?
Quote:
threads about having the bridge on the outside with all that glass
Problem with this is what did Tyra Miraborg do when she rammed her ship into the Dire Wolf? And whom did she kill? And why were they standing there? Etc….
Quote:
Did you not say the SL would become a hostile state as the only thing left would be the TH portion of it? Once this happens war would start wiping out or capturing trade ships going thru the TH. Or did war change?
You do realize that you are discussing two completely different times here?
At the start of the Star League – economic (free trade ) + UN security Force
Some-time later on in the middle and at the end of the Star League – very hostile the First Lord begins to use the SLDF as her/his “personal” attack dogs against the Great Houses as a political weapon.
None of the Great Houses are in a position militarily to fight the SLDF – as all of the houses have contributed together to create a Vast military force for the First Lord – and he has decided that all of the Great Houses must also be limited in their scope – so really what are they going to do? Fight a war they have absolutely no chance of winning – OR – build a second army in secret for the day when they can take on the First Lord and the SLDF?
Quote:
The FC would not happen if the TH was still a state, especially if they were attacked by either the FS or the LC.
Conjecture – Not facts!
Quote:
If Comstar had remained neutral like it was supposed to, the communications would have been denied setting this up
Question – what is the diplomatic corps for? Such as relaying messages from one house leader to another.
Comstar is not the only means of communication.
Quote:
Comstar was formed to keep the HPG network alive
And every house didn’t have the same desire to keep the HPG network alive – and they too realized the necessity of such - military, civilian etc?
Start killing them off and everyone will be left blind and dumb to attacks and it is back to the pony express which really does not serve anyone – it is in the best interest of every house to establish a non-attack clause when it comes to a HPG.
Quote:
And I don’t use tactics in my games?
How many times have I discussed a complex military attack / defence strategy or battle for that matter? Eg. From the Roman Empire Second Punic Cannae all the way through to WW1 / WW2 and beyond … then using them as examples …
For example – why did I suggest utilizing psychological warfare upon true born – why did I suggest attacking the Clans Logistics chain within the periphery and the effect this would have to their front line forces – especially when it comes to reinforcement via a sibko system – why did I suggest creating hunter killer teams on clan held worlds with one purpose to kill off the garrison then escape with everything and everyone else – then there are so many other strategies that were incorporated ….
Quote:
That would mean the DC would not have the Dieron district.
So? Ever considered that the Great Houses would have other facilities in hiding or they could even manufacture new facilities on other worlds to compensate?
Quote:
As the SLDF had the major facilities to product warships, how long do you think the houses could withstand them or even try to attack TH worlds?
Question – how many of these facilities survived the Amaris / Kerensky War? So how long is it going to take to rebuild them then start rebuilding ships.
Also again how many hidden shipyards should each of the Great Houses have if they have all implemented a plan to create hidden army / navy to one day fight against the SLDF? The Taurians and the Rim World were able to pull it off so why not the Great Houses?
Also consider –
The Seven Samurai – The Magnificent Seven – Battle Beyond the Stars – and even an anime version ….
The medium (or era or the cast of the story) is not what is important
What is important is the underlying story that provides the narrative from A to B …
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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ghostrider
08/07/21 11:35 AM
45.51.181.83
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The IS was hobbled against the clans?
Have you not heard the entire thing of the IS not having vast amounts of resources like ships?
The group the encountered the Dire Wolf was running from another battle, doing the uninhabited system jumps to get away from their earlier fight. Oh yeah. Fleets don't scatter, nor does a single ship flee when they have the leader of a realm aboard when they are losing a fight.
The encounter is pretty normal with the exception of the clans having the warship. I don't hear you saying the CC was hobbled during the 4th war. Nor did you say anything of the Periphery being hobbled fighting the SL
Another point is the large ship missiles did not exist through out the game until 2750 came out. Had they existed, then planetary invasions would have been far harder to do, as dropships would be wiped out far faster then they were. The 4th war, hell, almost every war that the anti ship missiles would have been in would have not had a ground battle.
So they put out the missiles to help fight against the warships. Hmmm...
(Did no one raid the nuclear vault!)
Counter question. Did no one know of the hidden worlds to even attempt to raid the vaults?
The entire game has issues with the history. The biggest issue seems to be a lack of continuity and play testing where the testers try to cheat with things, such as the pulse/TC issue. The RIfleman IIC being a prime example.
Oh? The first warship was after 3071? I thought they started coming on line in 3055. And that would have been earlier if not for Comstar delaying engine part delivery to the FS. Capital ship weapons were coming on line before then as well, otherwise the FOX would not have been armed.
The issue of having the blueprints and being able to accurately hit the area in aerospace is a problem with the rules. There is no specific targeting of a spot in aerotech. At least in the books I have. That might have come out in Battlespace and beyond.
Tyra ramming the ship, penetrating the armor at just the right time when all the people where there is no fluke or accident. It was plot armor. As the Dire Wolf was about to hold a meeting, it was the most likely place to have it with the Ilkhan. Clans are not known to have ballrooms on their warships. And go read the thread about the placement of bridges when on a starship. The only reason to do so is because someone wants to look outside of a window to see. Everything else is capable of running from inside the core of the ship.
You do realize that you are discussing two completely different times here?
I love this one. You obviously lost comprehending this. The FC started forming in 3019 or so, with the end result coming in 3030 or so. The SL was supposed to have fallen over 200 years in the past. With the alt, it did not die, but moved back to being just the TH. During this time, it would have been at war with the other houses. So explain how this would be different times when it comes to stopping the enemy houses from contact? Or taking out trading vessels, diplomatic ships and the like? Preventing enemy ships from just using their territory to go thru? They would not be just Terra, and it would be very likely the DC/FWL/CC would not allow ships thru their area either.
Another fact that seems to have slipped your mind is the SL suffered from the Amaris war, but instead of leaving the SLDF stayed. It is funny that at 95% losses, they were still larger then any house fleet, but yet were having issues dealing with the Perihpery before Amaris struck. But when the 1st war breaks out, do you think the houses would not combine to hit the SL worlds? Even without cooperating, they would do so. The LC HAS to take Defiance. Otherwise, they would have lost far more then they did. Hell, they might be like the CC in terms of territory they have if they don't take Defiance.
Conjecture – Not facts!
Based on facts, the FC would not have come about if the SL survived. The conjecture is saying the FC would form. Having a hostile TH between them, would prevent most of any efforts to even talk, much less organize. The TH would retain control of the HPG, which means transmissions will always be suspect.
From the looks of the map of the TH from 2764, a large chunk of the FS was part of the SL. More then a quick double jump. So even keeping half of that would mean the diplomats would have to be in TH space for a few weeks to months. No command routes as this is hostile territory. And that is just to set it up.
Look up the TH map. It shows that the houses would not have gained the mech factories that they relied upon in order to fight the succession wars. The situation in 3025 would be no where close to what is was in canon if the SL survived.
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Karagin
08/07/21 11:50 AM
70.118.172.64
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Clearly, Requiem is not listening to anything said, he has made his mind up that even with major changes to past events the future of BT (aka what we know happened as canon) will still happen as written just because he thinks it will.
Every point we have countered with, from showing him how Alternate History actually works when writing it to logical points about how the still existing Terran Hegemony would be in the way of and would be against the FC forming is not going to be seen by him, because as he said, he doesn't want to play with other people's mechs and characters.
So seeing that we are getting nowhere with him, I believe it might be time to stop interacting with on these Alts and move on to other things.
I am all for someone defending their ideas, but even I am willing to listen to the counter idea, might not agree with them but willing to listen, and for every counter point we have given to show why none of this works as he wants, all he keeps doing is restating the same things. Reminds me of those who defended the Jihad storyline and how great it was for the game. Yeah, that didn't end as folks thought it would for sales and status of the game, but that's a different thread and topic and we have beat it to death around here.
If Requiem wants to believe that he can still make canon events happen even after he changes past events in major ways then he is playing with Alien Space Bats and falls into the trap those things bring into play.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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ghostrider
08/07/21 12:09 PM
45.51.181.83
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Comstar was allowed to take over the HPG network as the SL was the one to maintain it before hand. So basically it went from something like the communications department in SL to a company that was sponsored to run it, with all the people that were working on it staying in their place. The idea that the houses ran the ones in their borders seems to be incorrect, though understandable that one would think this the case. If it was, then transmissions running thru it could not be trusted for say someone trying to contact their home nation while on a mission or even just setting up some trades.
Now with the SL remaining, the neutrality would be shattered. The SL would be an enemy nation. This would lead to fights and expelling the techs that work on the HPG network. To avoid doing so is leaving a huge number of potential spies in charge of your coms. Simple fact.
it is in the best interest of every house to establish a non-attack clause when it comes to a HPG.
It is in the best interest of every house to establish a ban on nukes. What happened to that one? How about attacks on jumpships? WMD? This will always be broken when someone feels the end result is worth the risk. Taking out the power generators for an HPG is a smart idea when you want to isolate the world. Then when you take the world and the enemy can't do anything about it, you rebuild the generator. Unlike some of the video games, you do NOT take out the dish or other parts of the transmission sections. It is also likely that since the SL didn't fall, there was no monopoly on WHO could build an HPG network. Remember all those little things like the Mobile HPG vehicles? They would still be in production.
For example – why did I suggest utilizing psychological warfare upon true born – why did I suggest attacking the Clans Logistics chain within the periphery and the effect this would have to their front line forces – especially when it comes to reinforcement via a sibko system – why did I suggest creating hunter killer teams on clan held worlds with one purpose to kill off the garrison then escape with everything and everyone else – then there are so many other strategies that were incorporated ….
This is strategy, not tactics. Most make a mistake of thinking they are tactics. Tactics is using what you have on the field to best advantage. Also, these concepts you put up are tried and true things done in the past. Something you love to quote. I could say win at all costs. Is that really a tactic? Not really.
Relooked at the TH map with writing the responses. Not sure how this: So? Ever considered that the Great Houses would have other facilities in hiding or they could even manufacture new facilities on other worlds to compensate? Fits with the DC not having their district capital, but there lies an issue with after the Amaris war. In canon, once the SL was disbanded, the DC attacked the FS starting the first war. Unless something major has changed, that would not give the houses time to construct new facilites before the war. Seeing the map, I can understand why the FS was in such a bad position. All the worlds in the TH region they picked up would have spread their forces out pretty thin. The FS would have been hurting if they didn't get some of the factories they did at the start of the 1st war.
Given the resentment towards the DC for helping Amaris, the SLDF may well have hit into the DC to prevent them from becoming a major threat. A lot of this also depends on if Kerensky himself took the throne to run the TH. It is possible some of the house worlds would have defected to the SL. More then a few would see they either defect or become the vassel of an enemy house.
So again the great alt story line needs to be change in order to bring about the increased production to even begin to compete with the SL. It isn't even done and yet needs another rewrite. Hmmm. Sounds like canon and each time they retcon something?
And this might actually drive home the point that the events in the past had to be changed before you could even work on the 'current' timeline, or even 3050. The blackhole of logic is so large, the future is so fragile that it falls apart with a few simple questions.
This is not saying I have thought of everything, as more things come to mind each time I think about it.
Where do I get a copy of Alien Space Bats? Sounds like fun.
Edited by ghostrider (08/07/21 12:11 PM)
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Karagin
08/07/21 12:34 PM
70.118.172.64
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"Alien space bats" ("ASBs") is a neologism for plot devices used in an alternate history to mean an implausible point of divergence. Or Departure.
They aren't fun. Writers often fall into the trap because they want things to pan out only one way and forget the golden rule; one change will cause other changes, etc... Then they write this cool story that is almost believable right up to the point that their hero(es) are doing the most insane stuff, and you are right where things, in reality, ended up with no real reason.
For Reqiuem, it's the idea that he still wants canon history to happen as it does, but with his ideas still, workable historical moments and the thinking that those changes won't affect the timeline is crazy.
He has shown that he confuses, as you pointed out, strategy with tactics. Even though you did a good job of explaining it each time, he still doesn't understand that the two are different.
I can have the strategy that I want to win the next BT game I play, and I can think about how to make it happen, with mech choices and thinking about what maps to use, etc...that is all strategy, but once the first dice are rolled for initiative, then starts the tactical part. Okay, so the other guy moved his Warhammer into those light woods, and his two Jenners are moving to my left flank while the Wardog is moving over to support the Warhammer, all right so I need to stop the Jenners; I will move to cut them off with ALL four of my mechs, let's see a move to the heavy woods anchor there, then move two mechs to the hill on the left flank and fire as I can.
Maybe that will help him...maybe?
Whether Kerensky or one of his Generals being in charge of the TH, the Houses would not be thrilled since they would still be in the same predicament that they faced before the SL was formed. Who is the bigger threat in both the short term and long term?
Could the Suns crush the Capelleans in a similar way as the Fourth SW showed us? Even with the TH still there and both them and the Combine breathing heavily at the border looking for signs of weakness?
Sure, the Suns COULD go all in and try to crush the Capelleans, even doing it, so it wasn't noticed at first in the same manner as the original take on this, BUT the difference would be they would still get NO corridor to the Lyrans, so that FC idea is dead in the water still. They would then exchange a single border shared with just the Capelleans to one now facing not only what's left of the Capelleans, but now they would be facing the Free Worlds and their military, (doubt the MIIO would be string up trouble like they were in the canon line and if they were, it would not be on the same scale) along with still having the Terrans and the Combine to face, not counting the Periphery powers.
Also, who says they will even be as successful as the canon version of this event? Does this invasion happen in, say, 2800 or in 3025? Who is leading it? Who isn't? Are the FedSuns having internal issues? What are their plans to counter a Terran attack or a Combine attack? All of that needs answering, and yet Requiem ignores all of that.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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ghostrider
08/07/21 05:33 PM
45.51.181.83
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You mean heroes having the deathstar as a frigate in a fleet with even more powerful weapons isn't good? I like wiping out entire galaxies that get me upset with a single thought.
I was hoping the Alien Space Bats was a mindless blast them up game, like Galaga or Galaxian. I guess pulling out Rampage and playing that a while might help me pass some time.
As for the changing of history, who is to say that the DC does invade the FS to start the 1st war. Given the fact that they helped the RWR with their plans to take out the Cameron line, as well as provided war materials to the RWR, I would think the SLDF would be very eager to pay them back for the Amaris conflict. Maybe even to the point of invading the DC themselves.
As the FS would also NOT have acquired a huge chunk of space, the concentrated forces may well have been able to stall the invasion. As I said, looking over the TH map, about a fifth of the FS came from the TH as the 1st war started. The down side is a few mech factories were taken after the start of the 1st war.
As stated, I doubt the SL would give up Defiance, so the Lyran stranglehold on assault mechs would not be there. The DC may well have went after them in order to gain territory. Another possible thing is Rasslehauge. That might have risen to cede from the DC, and gotten the backing of the SL. Again, possible, but not as likely as other things.
As stated, to take advantage of a lot of things, the houses would have had to institute a number of things before the Amaris war started. The building of warships would have needed more support facilities pumping out items such as engine drives and even jump cores.
Another aspect that seems to be missed, is the hidden SL bases. Camelot Command for instance. If the SL decided to use that to strike the LC, how fast would the LC crumble? They could well control the old RWR area from here as well. There should be others scattered around the rest of the IS as well.
Also as stated, how many worlds would have joined the SL after the houses attacked it?
More what ifs come up as well. Would the SL have advanced tech to equal or exceed the clans? The idea of the SL shrinking is erroneous as the SL needed resources. That was a big reason why the TH even came up with the idea for the SL. They had to strike out to seize those resources when the SL fell apart.
A chunk of the Skye region, including Summer, was part of the SL. So that would change the future as well. The likelihood of the LC taking the RWR areas like they did would have dropped dramatically. They would have to deal with the SL removing the Skye region if they didn't reinforce it.
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Requiem
08/07/21 08:16 PM
124.184.171.41
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The IS was hobbled against the clans?
Then what happened to many FC units between the 20 year update and the second House Book?
Why were the IS not allowed to create PT Vessels to counter warships?
Why was the DC never allowed to act as samurai and attack the Jaguars for Turtle Bay – ie. Kamikaze with nukes?
Why was Hanse Davion, Morgan Hasek-Davion, Takashi Kurita, Theodore Kurita and Melissa Steiner not allowed to be themselves during the Clan Invasion?
Why were the AFFC not allowed to act as they did during the 4th Succession War?
Why was the AFFFC and the DCMS hobbled by not allowing to attack the Clans Logistics?
Why were the Clans allowed to continually act at peak efficiently when it is clear that the Sibko system is incredibly detrimental?
Why was the AFFC not allowed to kill off both the Wolves and the Falcons post war between the two of them?
Why were the Wolves and the Falcons allowed to undertake reaving within the Clan Home worlds when the correct clan cultural act would have been either their absorption or destruction?
How about creating a mobile infantry anti-elemental weapon – sneak suits etc?
How about Huntress – why was the IS never allowed to remove all Clan Tech and incorporate it on their return to the IS?
How about prior to this when it was possible to reverse engineer most Clan weapon tech – and they said the only thing stopping it was the high cost?
How about introducing Total War economy as per WW2?
How about 15 years of truce and how limiting this was to creating a true army to fight off ALL THE CLANS?
How about the 1 year period of truce – why didn’t the IS prepare their defences as per Italy WW2?
How about the majority of TROs past 3050 – in all reality ALL new IS designs MUST be OMNI not the ridiculous designs provided – in all reality the WOB Angel series should have been what all the IS military forces should have designed and manufactured (a variant there of for each house)?
Why attack the clans with Serpent / Bulldog when they did - it would have been more beneficial to use this time to amass a vast NEW army / navy and attack on the 14th Year.
Where were the Black Boxes not mass produced for partisan activities within the clans rear captured worlds + anti logistics fighting within the deep periphery.
Katherine killing off her mother when it is not necessary at all – Victor is the only person she needs to kill to take the throne! … and in my opinion she would have been correct in trying to kill Victor – playing soldier is no way to rule the FC.
Victor – probably one of the most incompetent rulers within the IS – if he wanted to play soldier he should have given up the throne to begin with!
Then the rest of his family – coming from a line of rulers only Katherine showed a spark of being a true leader – the rest are basket cases!
And this is just the beginning of the list …
So yes Hobbled, massively – the entire war from beginning to end is one massive farce! In my opinion!
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Have you not heard the entire thing of the IS not having vast amounts of resources like ships?
Have you not heard of the entire thing that the IS have the capacity to manufacture PT anti warship dropships (however at the whim of the TPTB they were never allowed to do so) as a stop gap measure to producing pocket battleships and aerospace fighter carriers – as well as Big Wing aerospace fighter attack units – then there is the naval anti-ship missile introduced 3071 - get real more like 3051 …
Someone really does not understand a mother loving Naval War!
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Fleets don't scatter, nor does a single ship flee when they have the leader of a realm aboard when they are losing a fight.
Ever heard of the idea of contingency planning? And when it comes to your leader you really believe they would only provide one quarter of a unit for his safety? They wouldn’t have a nuclear locker on board?
At the minimum they could have sent an infantryman out on a jet pack, from one of the dropships, plant and explode the device – just like the LC Loki agents!
Also, where were the rest of the IS – if the FC were so willing to defend the DC capitol where were they now?
Did the dire wolf open up with its main guns during the battle? What a farce!
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Another point is the large ship missiles did not exist through out the game until 2750 came out.
2750? …. They were producing them in 3071 …
Planetary invasions – what were all the aerospace fighters for if not to eliminate dropships? And as Drop-ships are supposed to rare wouldn’t it be SOP to capture not destroy enemy dropships circa 4th Succession War?
And with the Clans arrival, including warships, they are now the biggest threat on the battlefield – don’t you think the IS would want to come up with a means of dealing within them ASAP? Hence the production of anti-ship killer missiles 3051-3052 at the very latest?
USA was afraid Germany would get the Bomb first – hence Trinity – So what is the difference here? Enemy Threat = response to that threat no matter the cost! Or why establish so many R&D teams on making advanced weapons and counter measures – Radar, asdic, V-I, V-II new tank designs and the list goes on and on …. Enigma computer for example.
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Did no one know of the hidden worlds to even attempt to raid the vaults?
So no IS unit had them on hand - no IS state were manufacturing them in the eventuality they were required – eg military engineering purposes - planetary defence (rogue asteroid) for example?
Sorry but this does not make sense at all – Every RCT within the FC and Every DCMS unit would have multiple nuclear weapons storage units for in the eventuality the enemy popped one off. Otherwise where did the Skye military get one to blow the dam with?
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I thought they started coming on line in 3055. And that would have been earlier if not for Comstar delaying engine part delivery to the FS.
So why place ComStar as a military industrial supplier? 5 years into the Clan war and they are still being obstructionist – time to being manufacturing at home what does the Helm Memory Core Say about it?
In a time of war does anyone believe that ComStar would attempt such a blatant act of stupidity?
In playing one side off the other you have to be friend with both parties and do you best for both parties whist in the open – it is the shadows that need to be considered dangerous!
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warship Blueprints
Another massive black hole for aerospace! – did no one look in every military academy library as the LC have SLDF academies that became LC?
Warship Bridge – still does not change the fact she rammed the bridge! Design flaw or in all reality given how vulnerable ships are what’s the point of putting the bridge down below – one good hit by another warship and the ship and all aboard will explode so there is no real point to hiding it away.
You do understand what diplomats are afforded whist in another country?
Cannon – every IS House has only been allowed a 0.2% rating of the SLDF – so when Keresnky survived with 5% of the fleet intact – this still provides him with a massive superiority in warship numbers - enough to threaten all the houses if so required and to patrol the complete TH!
Or do you want the Great houses to start a war with the SLDF when they are supposed to be working out whom the next First Lord is supposed to be? The SLDF is still the biggest stick on the block!
Sorry but no pillaging of fleets until after the SLDF leaves the stage!
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Having a hostile TH between them, would prevent most of any efforts to even talk, much less organize.
And having secret routes though uninhabited systems were never used in the story as well as going around the TH?
This is space after all – you do not need to use exiting held routes for everything!
The TH would remain control of their piece of the HPG – all other states would nationalize their piece of the HPG under their Houses Logo!
Diplomats have what? Diplomatic Amnesty … so no funny business ….
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It shows that the houses would not have gained the mech factories that they relied upon in order to fight the succession wars.
And no one ever though about building more factories on other worlds? Are only those established during the Star League allowed to exist?
This is again another massive black home in the game – the idea that during the entire history of the Great Houses that massive military industrial facilities would have not been established within the centre of the realm where it is supposed to be safe against enemy attack – so why don’t we put them all on the border with out enemy because that wouldn’t make for a tempting target at all! (satire)
Also considering the massive time line – why haven’t there been more shipyards established – in all reality EVERY system should have a small shipyard and as the would increases in value so too does the size of its shipyard!
Again, taking about me, not too me. What would happen if I also posted in a similar fashion?
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If Requiem wants to believe that he can still make canon events happen even after he changes past events in major ways then he is playing with Alien Space Bats and falls into the trap those things bring into play.
Is it the medium used to covey the message or the message itself that is important?
Changes can be made - the route and the vehicle may change, and yet the destination can still be the same.
The Seven Samurai and the Magnificent Seven.
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This would lead to fights and expelling the techs that work on the HPG network.
Unless every House nationalized their part of the HPG network – techs live on these worlds thus they can be considered citizens, so what is the problem? It is not like they work from a depo in TH – and every time the system would goes down they would say we will be there between 6.00am on 3rd to 12.00pm on the 29th please be home other wise you will need to reschedule with HPG TH.
Nukes Vs HPG – semantics - apples and oranges – weapon systems Vs communication systems.
Yes, The only time a HPG can be considered a target is if everyone knows exactly how to make them – and even then why as there will come a point in time when every ship has one - also Black Boxes how prevalent are these going to get? Remember the idea is to take over the world without hacking off the population that lives on the rock, and taking away their HPG is a sure fire way of doing this.
Question – so we are now discussing how individual units are to react - when lances a and b are going to take on star a? you really want to go this far? Who said a battle plan survives contact with the enemy? Concentrated fire, overlapping fields of fire, how using sneak suits and new anti-toad weapon systems to hunt and kill toads – how using ISF and commando to kill garrisons because they do not have an adequate security force …
And here I thought both of you wanted to only discuss the larger issues at play and not get bogged down – I think the Phoenix Hawk should have jumped out of the light woods, in order to out flank the DC Dragon at the Battle of Cannae.
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that would not give the houses time to construct new facilities before the war.
Really? Once Amaris made his declaration and Kerensky his – War – Wasn’t it very obvious to everyone that sooner or later this war could expand “Domino Effect” and in so doing become an Inner Sphere Wide War – just as it did WW1 and WW2 and WW3 … and the age of war ….
So taking precautions as soon as the balloon went up would have been in the best interests of every Great House.
Also the shadow Wars – The SLDF did not help in FS Vs DC to determine the legitimate ruler and again with CC Vs FS border dispute so really why have any military industrial facility so close to the border when it was becoming obvious the SLDF were not going to do their job!
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Given the resentment towards the DC for helping Amaris, the SLDF may well have hit into the DC to prevent them from becoming a major threat.
Do you have proof of this? Other wise it is just conjecture! The DC sat out the war just the same as every Great House – unless proof can be found!
There is also the point of why when politically it would be far more satisfying to use the proof at the council meeting and in the public to crucify House Kurita.
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So again, the great alt story line needs to be change in order to bring about the increased production to even begin to compete with the SL.
The 2650 edict is the point where it can be said that increased production commences with massive secret facilities – so there is absolutely no need for a re-write.
Neologism – a newly coined word or expression
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it's the idea that he still wants canon history to happen as it does
Really? Then why did I go to all the trouble of creating so many alternate gaming scenarios where Canon falls off the wayside?
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they would still get NO corridor to the Lyrans
Except if they went through the CC and the FWL around the TH border – and guess what a corridor!
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and yet Requiem ignores all of that.
Do you really want to go down this rabbit hole?
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so the other guy moved his Warhammer into those light woods,
When was the last time you wanted to discuss actual game play down to this level within any of the previous forums? Haven’t you wanted to discuss the larger issues?
So if you want to go down this track may I suggest a new forum within the Game Board Section.
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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ghostrider
08/07/21 09:08 PM
45.51.181.83
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The developers had to do something to keep people from asking how the FC lost to the DC even with Comstar giving the DC help. And why the war didn't last longer or another happen after it. Even the Skye rebellion wouldn't have kept overwhelming forces from hitting the DC. The DC would have lost worlds as well as the FC keeping theirs.
Reread the Overlord variant with the capital missiles again. The IS DID get some dropships that could fire on warships and do some damage. This has been said before and proven you are wrong. Why are you trying to say this yet again?
Looks like most of your why questions have been answered more then a few times. Why don't you actually read the responses and remember them? The answers don't change.
The only new question in that list is about the Wolves and Falcons not being absorbed. The best guess is the only clans that could possibly have done so, were still reeling from Tukkiyud. It is possible some did try and failed, but it was not printed. It may well be one of the stipulations that the other clans can not do so against the clans invading.
So since the IS didn't have warships, they should have surrendered, as it seems to be the point of naval warfare. Or do nations fight with what ever they have to the best of their ability. Overcome. Adapt. The IS was making naval weapon carrying dropships. Just not the instant the clans showed up. OH wow! You mean it takes time to properly fit ships with new weapon systems? Why didn't the IS houses get on Comstar to use their warships to remove the clans? Oh yeah. They were working with the clans at first.
So you would make it easy to find out where the leader is heading to by making a large fleet follow him? Not understand naval tactics? The enemy is most likely to go after the largest concentration of fleeing vessels, as the assumption that someone would be stupid to have the leader on one of those ships. And you believe all ships carry nukes in storage some wheres? This is from the guy that suggests nukes would never be used, and it would be illegal to use them? The only time they would have nukes is when they intend to use them. Otherwise you are wasting storage space as well as just asking to kill the crew if something happened, like their payload being spilled during a fight.
This is basic thoughts and logic. Why does this have to be explained?
2750 refers to the helm core where the IS, outside of Comstar, started gaining access to naval weapons again. This means the capital missiles. Which once decoded, would have been something to start equipping anything that could launch them. But the developers didn't seem to think that was the logical way to go. This one I will agree was stupid on their part. Important worlds like nation capitals should have done like the DC and put up their capital ship defense satilites. Funny how the DC did but not the FC. Think on that one.
The Skye incident happened during the canon succession wars. Having stockpiles of nukes around, and having them aboard ships is different. Ships would not just carry them around, as explained above. stockpiles would need authorization to get into as the use of them would set off more issues. Something you seem to miss.
Did you even read what happened after the truce? Walterly was holding back the FC from gaining warships until the DC/FWL/CC could catch up. As the truce was in effect, Walterly was bidding her time in order to destroy the FC. She was still thinking she could use the clans and the others to remove the FC, and for her to take over. Operation Scorpion was where she was killed. Hmmmm. Obstruction was there why?
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ghostrider
08/07/21 09:40 PM
45.51.181.83
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You do understand what diplomats are afforded whist in another country?
When at war, very little.
Statements like this: this still provides him with a massive superiority in warship numbers - enough to threaten all the houses if so required and to patrol the complete TH!: is why your views of everything being in one place at one time keep being shown. You do not have the forces to patrol the entire TH. In order to actually guard it all, they would have to be spread out, meaning a raider can hit them and take out ships in a few systems. You don't have enough to have even one per system. The argument of having superior numbers over all verse local superiority. But then you never have any patrols or guards, as shown yet again.
And as you stated, the SL would not be abandoned. The houses would have to deal with the SL threat. But then you have not stated the SL meant ALL houses were still part of it. If true, then no succession wars, which totally changes the game. But the topic was for the LC to begin pulling out of the SL. They would begin an arms race no matter what the SL said.
Why isn't there ports in every coastal city? Why not a car manufacturer in every city? Unnecessary costs is the first answer. Then having to staff and upkeep after building them. This is part of why you send ships for repairs to specific places. Corporate greed is a big one as well. They want the most amount of cash they can get, and if they have excess facilities, they won't get it. Also staffing one location verse a dozen. Economics 103.
This means economics other then military are needed, just like real life.
Nukes Vs HPG – semantics - apples and oranges – weapon systems Vs communication systems.
Comprehend this. A piece of paper is not going to stop someone from doing something just because the paper exists. Semantics, this is not. If you don't understand why this isn't, then you might need to talk to others, besides on line. Agreements can be violated no matter what they are about. If it benefits someone that is desperate, then they will negate the agreement.
When did the succession wars start after the fleet left? Oh yeah. It started before they got out of the IS. So all those factories you wanted to build before the war, well not possible. They would have had to have been done during the Amaris war, or as Kerensky was trying to keep the SL together. So without the ALREADY built factories, the battles in the succession wars would have been far different. So if the SLDF stayed, then the war would have been going on and no factories from the TH portion would have been taken.
Not sure if you know this, but more then a few strategies had to cut off the locals from com networks. People loyal to who you are attacking will relay information as well as any soldiers in the city. This is true even with planet to planet coms.
So you think the SL intel department is that inept? That they could never find shipping documents or even ID codes on the equipment the RWR had? Even the metals used tend to have some clues to where it is made. Part of criminal investigations. But I guess they all died as no one is working outside of the line units.
Oh but a rewrite is necessary. Plans and equipment would have to be gathered up to even begin this, as they would not wait until the declaration got to the first lord. If it was, then the courts would have a field day delaying such a deal until the subject could be taken care of. Which may well include arresting and execution of the Archon for espienage, and other crimes against the SL. This may well come from inside the LC. And how many years would pass before construction began? Oh yeah, breach of contract if the courts didn't clear it first. Maybe even revoking the LC as part of the SL accords. Well thought out.
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ghostrider
08/07/21 09:56 PM
45.51.181.83
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The lance example was showing when tactics comes into effect, and strategy ends. The comprehension of the example is the issue.
The destination is not the same if you change the events leading up to it are not the same.
Hitting Japan with the nukes verses just invading them. The war ends, but the conditions are far different. No nuke sites and a lot more dead soldiers going with the second. That changes more events down the line, as people don't know what nukes can do. So the war ends, but not the same result. This is the concept that seems to be elusive. That also means that in the future, those extra dead will change things even more, as someone isn't there to perform an event they were meant to. If Kerensky dies in the periphery, the SLDF would not have thought of leaving. Someone else takes over and takes out Amaris, but the end conditions are not that same.
Except if they went through the CC and the FWL around the TH border – and guess what a corridor!
You still believe those nations would allow the FS and LC to discuss things if they can prevent it? Just as the TH, they would do what they could to stop it. Neither nations wants their enemies to team up with another nation. And the FWL/CC 'corridor' is even longer then the TH one. It would be easier to go thru the DC, which we know would put an end to that.
All of that needs answering, and yet Requiem ignores all of that.
You left out the context of the statement, as seems to be normal. Had you dealt with the entire thing, you would have seen the:
Also, who says they will even be as successful as the canon version of this event? Does this invasion happen in, say, 2800 or in 3025? Who is leading it? Who isn't? Are the FedSuns having internal issues? What are their plans to counter a Terran attack or a Combine attack?
There are questions to the outcome that seems to be ignored in order to present a believable, viable outcome to events that is your vision. No answers, just saying they work. Yet the logic holes open up in this.
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Requiem
08/08/21 01:41 AM
124.184.171.41
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Reread the Overlord variant with the capital missiles again. The IS DID get some dropships that could fire on warships and do some damage.
Pocket warship classes - https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Category:Pocket_WarShip_classes
Overlord A3 – developed in 3058 – (not available!) thus if I place my order in 3058 how many years will it require until I receive it? And how does this help me in 3050 onwards?
Whereas https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Category:Capital_Missile
Barracuda – year availability 3051
White Shark – year availability 3051
Killer Whale – year availability 3051
So the Capital Missile are there and yet the ships will not be available for another 6 years.
Oh yes this makes absolute sense the answer does not change for the first 8+ years you have the missiles and no ships to use them on (Satire!!!)
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So since the IS didn't have warships, they should have surrendered
All levity aside …
The ONLY IS weapon, capable of attacking a warship circa 3050, is the Aerospace fighter and the Nuke!
That is unless you want to turn a dropship into a Fire Ship.
So the only realistic option is the Big Wing aerospace fighter attack or break rules and build a PT by retro fitting capital missile launchers onto the side of dropships as fast attack craft – torpedo runs.
Also, why do I need to explain this?, The IS did not know about ComStars Fleet they also did not know about Wolfs Dragoons Fleet - so what would happen if they did know about both?
So yes the ONLY overcome – adapt scenario circa 3050 is the fighter and the nuke!
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The best guess is the only clans that could possibly have done so, were still reeling from Tukkiyud.
And what were the home clans doing? Sitting on their hands? Absorb them – absorb their right to enter into the Inner Sphere to become Il Clan! How difficult is this to understand? Both The Wolves and the Falcons have proven themselves to be Weak – The weak die or they are absorbed – This is the way of the MONGOL!
As for stipulations – I demand a Trial to say that is wrong! Really how many would want to keep an idiotic rule when they have a second chance at becoming an invader of the IS and thus the Il Clan!
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So you would make it easy to find out where the leader is heading to by making a large fleet follow him?
And how many dropships do the Flying Drakons have? 5
And how large is space and how small are jump-ships compared to space – thus what is the probability of actually running into another fleet in space unless you jumping to a designated coordinate where there is a habituated world in-system?
Please do let me know which radar system is used to track a ship once it has jumped to its destination?
And you don’t believe all Military Command ships don’t carry nukes in an era when they were used like candy and you have no idea if the enemy is going to re-start using them again?
Contingency planning would say otherwise – or why have subs out there right now with nuclear missiles ready to be used, all it takes is the go code! If we go down your theory all nukes on subs as well as surface vessels – cruise missiles and those for attack fighters etc should all still be back in drydock …
Helm Memory Core - https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Helm_Memory_Core discovered in 3028 Then required how may years to decrypt all the information contained there in? As it was still being decrypted during the 4th Succession War when ComStar Attacked New Avalon to destroy it!
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Having stockpiles of nukes around, and having them aboard ships is different.
No – US, Russia, China etc Naval vessels will have them on board NOW – so what is the difference in the future? NIL – all RCTs will have a nuclear bunker abord their ships!
As for authorisation – Highest officer alive on the battlefield would have direct authorisation to implement as and when they are required!
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Walterly was holding back the FC from gaining warships until the DC/FWL/CC could catch up.
And Focht should have shot her earlier!
Considering the number of shadow wars between FS, LC and FC Vs Comstar why anyone would trust an enemy is beyond understanding! Did the 4th SW interdiction teach them anything?
This is why you build them yourself with the knowledge gained from the Helm Memory Core!
Which is another reason why the game has been so violently hobbled against the IS.
And why the story is getting beyond a joke!
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You do understand what diplomats are afforded whist in another country? When at war, very little.
And the Cuban Missile Crisis means absolutely Nothing? You must keep the back doors of communication open this is why even during war diplomats talk with each other – usually in a neutral country.
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You do not have the forces to patrol the entire TH.
Exodus Fleet comprising only 80% of the Remaining SLDF. - https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Operation_EXODUS
402 Warships – 1,349 Jumpships – over 5,000+ Dropships
Would say otherwise as how many ships would this equate to for the total 100% of the remaining SLDF?
Then there is the issue of Politics – why would you want to antagonise the only person who is supposed to be the kingmaker – and provide the First Lord title?
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Why isn't there ports in every coastal city? Why not a car manufacturer in every city?
You do realis this statement requires adaptation – Why not a car manufacturer on every world with a population over how many million people?
Every world WILL need to have a minimum level of technological development / infrastructure – schools, hospitals, - energy, food etc – and transportation / vehicles for agriculture / transport etc – where are they going to be made in their thousands and tens of thousands – another planet and shipped in via a dropship that has a very finite space available?
This is why every system once it reaches a minimum level of technological and social development must build their own port – it provides transport security for commerce – and in so doing promotes economic development – ie increases peoples wages, standard of living etc and increases the economic development (and standing) of the world
Question How many sea access countries have at least one port for export / import and as you go up the countries wealth ladder how many ports or how sophisticated do these ports become – ans all of them!
The same goes for worlds in space – all MUST have their own Port – not on the ground but in space – a spaceport with a port to fix any jump-ship / dropship as required!
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Comprehend this. A piece of paper is not going to stop someone from doing something just because the paper exists.
Then why write any laws – why have police - why have the court system at all? The world should be one huge temple dedicated to Anarchy – everyone should do whatever they want and there should be no consequences for their action at all. Laws are in place for a reason and the majority of us obey them.
Why have a UN, why have International Law, why have military law, why have any regulations protecting us against pollution for example?
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When did the succession wars start after the fleet left?
You do realise I stated the factories should be started to be built in secret circa 2650 – thus by the time the fleet left they are all up and operational and hidden who knows where throughout each individual house’s territory.
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a few strategies had to cut off the locals from com networks
Canon – HPG unfortunately ComStar will not allow this - Local Telephone is another matter entirely.
Alt History – who ever controls / has access to a substitute HPG can make the call.
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The destination is not the same if you change the events leading up to it are not the same.
Sorry but no – how many alternative world stories have the protagonist going to another reality to stop whatever destroyed his world from happening on the new world he was sent to?
Different people – same destination …
Also as stated many many times – the nukes DID NOT stop WW2 – it was the Russians declaring war on Japan and invading – the Japanese did not want to end up like Germany so they quickly surrendered to the US. The propaganda about the bomb stopping the war is there to alleviate the guilt in being the only country who actually used it.
So no nukes + Russians invading = still equals Japan Surrendering.
Kerensky dead does not mean the war ends with him – it goes on under a new CinC – and the outcome can still be the same – Amaris put down!
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they would do what they could to stop it.
And during the 4th SW did the CC, FWL and DC stop the new FC form creating the corridor?
As for taking the DC route via Alt History – who knows what their military might is compared to the FC ?
As for everything else – this is up to the Writer to work out.
How easy it is to say there will be holes when it is yet to be written.
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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ghostrider
08/08/21 03:14 AM
45.51.181.83
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A full redesign of ships takes time. But as I stated before. Why wasn't there any capital ship batteries placed on/in other things? Simply make a launcher that can be put on a tower to be fired at ships in orbit.
I know the reason and it comes down to the need for ships to be able to land or there is no game.
And how does this help me in 3050 onwards?
Gee. Isn't 3058 beyond 3050?
The ONLY IS weapon, capable of attacking a warship circa 3050, is the Aerospace fighter and the Nuke!
Theatrics which is covering a false statement. You can attack with dropships as well. They don't survive long, but it can be done. Aerofighters have the better chance, as warships are not really designed to deal with them. That is why most had to have fighters.
And your concept of having dropships plopping out of behinds means they had the ability to engage warships enmasse.
Your time skipping is showing that you need to pay attention before posting again. The Drakkons were not in an age where nukes were dropping like candy. So your statement with that is false. The only time nukes would be on board a ship is if they intend to use them. The Periphery war when it started would have the periphery use them, and only after they were used against the SLDF would the SLDF have started stocking them, not before. You wanted the periphery to return to the fold, not glow in the dark.
Let's see. They started getting items from the core and had to build the components to even start production on the brand new(recently unknown) tech. Testing to make sure they work before the put it into mass production, meaning not everything was worked on at once. Now the history lesson. The NAIS was NOT the first or only facility that had a copy of the core. Duke RIcol (if I remember the name right) from the DC was given a copy so the Grey Death Legion could escape helm. So the DC was more likely to start working on it before the LC or FS. So you need to fix this logic hiccup. The NAIS was used by the FS/FC because the best talent was there teaching. It was easier to secure as well, being on New Avalon. So when you only have maybe a dozen people that can do anything, and you don't want to have the core self destruct by putting in the wrong password, you tend to take time to do much.
Today, nukes are used as a deterrent. All sides know if one goes off, then nuclear winter is next. In the game, there is no reason to have them, as most of the time you are patrolling your own systems. The Coast Guard is not going to have nukes on their ships, but someone parked off the coast of Russia, or Iran might. Even then, they aren't assured to be on board.
And not all ships would carry them anyways.
The knowledge to build something does not always give you the knowledge to to produce a factory to build it. But I do think the FC would have been working as fast as they could on making a factory to do so. I would also think everyone, including people within the FC that didn't want the leaders to get them were working to sabotage said factories.
And yet again, the developers screwed up by bringing them back to life, with the cost and production issues being the main way they were preventing the widespread deployment of them. Look at what happened with the DC/FS in the future. They destroyed the ground game.
And you believe that diplomat had free access to just walk around and do whatever? They were watched and probably had the watchers have orders to kill them if they did anything that looked like spying. Cuba may well have just had the telephone line to get contact with no one being allowed in the country. And they probably even met in a third country to even discuss having talks.
402 warships to patrol over 600 systems. See the math problem here. As stated, you do not have enough to cover the TH. Supplementing them with combat dropships only goes so far.
The king maker is the very one you said was an inept social general. Now he is the most powerful man in the IS. If the house leaders seen him as you suggested he was, why would they not try to take him out?
Why isn't there ports in every coastal city? Why not a car manufacturer in every city?
Funny. I was talking about the real world today. But the answer you gave is pretty much the one that I gave you back when you said every world would not use livestock for things like plowing fields.
Gonna touch the real world for this next statement.
There are laws against using things like the chemical and biological weapons. There are laws against specifically targeting health care workers. There is laws against just executing people that oppose your ideas. There are laws against launching coupes. Have you seen any of this happen in the last 5 or so years? If not, then I suggest you get off forums like this and look at the news.
How many times has the U.N. actually punished those that have done this?
Now back to the game story.
So is the building new factories running on the old canon story line? Or is it part of where the SLDF and SL stay alive in the IS? This is a major fact that needs to be answered before it can be commented on.
Canon fact. The DC had cut off Wolfs Dragoons from the HPG network with Comstar's blessing just before they left the DC's employ. Comstar cut off contact with worlds the clans invaded. The entire interdiction of the 4th war was yet another example. There were other instances where coms were cut off.
And coms doesn't always mean interstellar. Taking a space station at a jump point to prevent the planets knowing there is a hostile force in system.
And how many of those people going to alternative worlds come back to theirs being right? Their world was still destroyed. So no difference.
The nuke example was not saying it ended the war, but the damage prevented other big wars from happening in the future. There have been wars, but nothing like the WW ones. That is because the big boys with nukes know what will happen. No one gets away without heavy damage.
Again with changing the scenario. The canon story did not have a few jumps worth of enemy forces between the FS and LC. If the SL were still alive, it would cut the access between the two. As Comstar in the canon line was still supplying the HPG services, the other three could still communicate.
The alt would have all coms cut off from each other, as the houses would not allow enemy coms to go thru.
There is holes in the baseline, which needs to be fixed. So the foundation of the alt based on canon has holes in it. Something that doesn't seem to sink in.
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Requiem
08/08/21 07:40 AM
124.184.171.41
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A full redesign of ships takes time.
If any Clan decides to “Palmyra” any world in their path, the reaction is don’t worry we will put them on the ground as anti-warship weapons when any warship can fire their main energy weapons at an oblique angle to the ground from space, and, in all probability, out of range of a capitol missile.
So, for the Eight plus years just remember to sing “Always look on the Bright Side of Life”
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you can attack with a dropship as well
And the next line was “That is unless you want to turn a dropship into a Fire Ship.”
So, yes using dropships was also suggested!
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And your concept of having dropships plopping out of behinds means they had the ability to engage warships en-masse.
And here we go down the same rabbit hole, again!
Vengeance carriers - to which there are absolutely no numbers stating how many are within the IS or any single Great House and how many are built in any once year.
Aerospace fighters from across the entire military Army ect. – including Naval fleet arm. Thus, proving many times over that there are available numbers to conduct big wing attacks ….
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The Drakkons were not in an age where nukes were dropping like candy. So your statement with that is false.
The nuclear navies or earth want to know - as we are in an era where no one are dropping nukes like candy, can they store their nukes at home rather than on their ships?
Also, the merchant marine captains of IS are wanting to know what your plan is to keep them safe from attacking Clan warships is?
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You wanted the periphery to return to the fold, not glow in the dark.
Problem is that’s now what happened.
Taurin Concordat
2581 - Admiral Janissa Franklin ordered an orbital bombardment of Robsart – killing 30,000 civilians.
2584 – scorched earth tactics against Caldwell and Warren.
2565-86 scorched earth tactics against Montour, Sartu and Mavegh
2588-89 New Vandenburg - The SLDF decided to defoliate the entire northern continent.
Torching the countryside …. Etc etc
And in return - New Vandenberg Uprising
Fuel laden cargo ship detonated …
Many SLDF forced back – refused to surrender - wiped out by nuclear bombardment.
2767 Kerensky had lost 140 divisions – nearly 1,000,000 SLDF soldiers dead!
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The NAIS was NOT the first or only facility that had a copy
The real question, however, is NOT who got the Helm Memory Core First. The Real question is who deciphered the Helm Memory Core First! So the DC have the same or better computers than NAIS when it comes to code breaking?
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Helm_Memory_Core
Discovered 1 April 3028
First handed over copies to Free Traders …. The library core thus found its way into every Successior State within a few years … The legion also gave a Core to Duke Richol for aiding their escape.
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/NAIS_College_of_Military_Science
“The NAIS became the most developed and sophisticated military academy in the entirety of the Inner Sphere.”
So no they were the best Hanse could find to decrypt the Core …
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Today, nukes are used as a deterrent. All sides know if one goes off, then nuclear winter is next. In the game, there is no reason to have them
And just as today they are a deterrent … they are also a deterrent in 3050.
And just as the Coast Guard does not have nukes so would small forces … however just like major army / navy bases and key capitol ships … so too would Key RCTs. Etc.
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The knowledge to build something does not always give you the knowledge to to produce a factory to build it. But I do think the FC would have been working as fast as they could on making a factory to do so. I would also think everyone, including people within the FC that didn't want the leaders to get them were working to sabotage said factories.
What widget are we manufacturing here? – that is kept at low production numbers? and is being sabotaged which is highly unlikely as profit comes in mass manufacturing at peak amounts and all military industrial facilities come with a massive security clearance required by everyone – no exceptions!
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and you believe that diplomat had free access to just walk around and do whatever?
And how did you come to this conclusion? When what I said is “You must keep the back doors of communication open this is why even during war diplomats talk with each other – usually in a neutral country.” ie the Outworlds Alliance is the closest thing to a neutral country between the two of them – that is unless they want to go to Terra and discuss it in front of ComStar.
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Terran Hegemony
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Terran_Hegemony
Faction Profile states Controlled Systems: 95+ (Lets say an even 100 when you look at the map)
Also, 80% of remaining warships = 402
Therefore 100% of remaining warships = 503 approximately (rounded up)
So the problem is that you can only put 5 ships in every system in the TH.
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The king maker is the very one you said was an inept social general. Now he is the most powerful man in the IS.
And I have to explain the difference in how Canon views Kerensky to how my Alt (and me personally) view Kerensky?
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why would they not try to take him out?
For exactly the same reasons as why the Allies never initiated their operation to assassinate Hitler.
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How many times has the U.N. actually punished those that have done this?
First, it is not the UN – it is the ICC.
Second, If the ICC is not as effective then why is the US government so scared to sign the accords! Could it be they do not want their people brought before a court they do not have control of?
https://www.icc-cpi.int/about
“There have thus far been 30 cases before the Court, with some cases having more than one suspect.”
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building new factories
As far as canon is concerned only the Periphery States were able to manufacture hidden military industrial facilities during the Star League.
And this is where I laugh at the idea the Great Houses never attempted to establish hidden military industrial facilities of their own as history is becoming even fore farcical.
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Comstar cut off contact with …
So? Comstar only cuts the lines when it is in their best interest to do so, and only when they can get away with it.
Otherwise - Black Boxes – why wasn’t there a section in the Helm Core as to the manufacture and working of HPGs? If they were built into ships during the star league era why can’t they be built into ships during the Clan Invasion era? Or is it just the idea of removing power from Comstar too frightening a concept?
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There have been wars, but nothing like the WW ones. That is because the big boys with nukes know what will happen. No one gets away without heavy damage.
Like the destruction of the HPG network.
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If the SL were still alive, it would cut the access between the two.
Two massive problems with this,
First, Trade – cut the lines and watch your economy go down the drain due to no imports or export contacts.
Second, Spy – cut the lines and you cannot listen in and attempt to use the system to locate enemy spy teams / gather valuable information – also your spy teams in other states will now also be having the same problem of reporting back.
It is in the best interest of everyone to keep communication open otherwise it the Cold War all over again and how did that work out for Russia’s closed economy – and what happened to China after Nixon’s visit and China opened up? They are now no 2 looking at becoming no 1.
So, no I really do not believe that the TH would switch off their coms – not unless they are suicidal.
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There are holes in the baseline, which needs to be fixed. So, the foundation of the alt based on canon has holes in it. Something that doesn't seem to sink in.
Really? Especially when the recent release is a proforma only – and the majority (if not all) of the others deviate widely away from canon.
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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ghostrider
08/08/21 01:53 PM
45.51.181.83
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Last I knew of, which was a while ago, capital missiles out ranged naval energy weapons. Also, the game has it set up so there is no real difference of diagonal shoots, with the exception of being out of a firing arc. I will say I am not sure if you can fire capital missiles like torpedoes and arc them towards a target. So the best thing to do is make the launcher able to face anywhere it can reach, much like a giant SAM site.
You do not have to turn a dropship into a fire ship in order to fight a warship. Suicide runs should only be done when there is no other choice. Limited though they may be, you do have options with dropships in a fight.
Funny how the argument comes out with the same defense and yet the answer still hasn't changed. Stripping the entire nation of forces to send to on location doesn't work. The Vengeance carrier is much like other vessels. They are not a numerous as you would like them to be in canon. In your alt, you could have them stacked up so they can be set end to end and go from Terra to the periphery. And yet you don't see how this changes the game.
Nuclear ships do carry nukes as a deterrent. They are not packed full of them. As the missiles can be fired to anywhere at anytime in response to the use of them elsewhere. Do all ships carry them? No. When they come into port, do they change out what they carry? Highly likely, otherwise you have people looking to target them when they are on their own for a patrol. Otherwise, you will have some organizations attack those vessels to try and seize the ordinance.
And the merchant marines are never safe. Even before warships were reintroduced, the were not safe. Even worse, during war, they are more likely to be targeted by the enemy, as the enemy is more focused on protecting systems, or ports today, then they are protecting a lone supply ship. Part of why convoys happen, and when they get attacked, they are still not safe. How safe was the merchant marines during the Normandy landing? The ones driving the ducks?
They had warship protection.
Even the best can't do like movies and tv shows and just look at the code and break it down. It requires time. Enter the wrong code at the wrong time, and the whole thing will erase itself. Even copying it may not save the data. Then trying to assemble the parts to make a unit, wether weapon, engine, thruster, heatsink, and what not. Also there were other things that were being looked into besides the military aspect of the data. Medical breakthrus as well as construction, possibly more efficient water purifiers, better sensors, even better construction methods. All have to be tested to make sure something wasn't missing or corrupted. Even misread. Try building a house where you don't add water to the concrete. It doesn't work.
Yes. The atrocities did happen. But when the SLDF went into the periphery, as being explained at that point, they were not trying to make it glow. Nukes would be brought in after they realized the war was going to have such devices used against them. If you think all ships would carry an arsenal of nukes, then why didn't they have weapons that were standard on those ships that used them. Nuclear Killer Whale launchers or Nuclear bomb racks? Nothing has that stated on most ships. The nuclear missile ships of our time does. Nothing in the game has such things stated.
Having nukes stored at a base some where is not the same thing as traveling around the IS with them. So your instant teleporting would have those bases send out a load to a ship say 4 jumps from the base as soon as they wanted them. This does not happen. Nukes are send out in the game when they are going to be potentially used. This means they are on the table, sometimes ordered on the table. It does not mean you MIGHT run into something that could use them. As nukes are weapons of last resort, you would not have them scattered across the IS.
You do understand the concept of testing items before mass production? This statement makes me wonder.
What widget are we manufacturing here? – that is kept at low production numbers? and is being sabotaged which is highly unlikely as profit comes in mass manufacturing at peak amounts and all military industrial facilities come with a massive security clearance required by everyone – no exceptions!
For the widget, let's use the focusing lens for lasers to make the ERLL. Until you know it works properly, you are not going to put out 1 million units. And no matter how much security you have, someone seems to be able to get inside that shouldn't be. This does not include someone just flying over head and bombing the facility to dust. A simple 50 k bribe to the right person can have them turn away from their watch area for a quick bathroom run, and let something in that shouldn't be there. And greedy people that don't really care will snap up this chance.
Understanding human nature seems to be a problem. A majority of people would avoid this, but there is alway someone looking for this opportunity.
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ghostrider
08/08/21 02:18 PM
45.51.181.83
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As a side note, when cracking security codes, it helps to know a little about who was part of the programing of it. A simple phrase might well be what helps crack the code. A simple reference like to be or not to be, might lead to understanding the code. If you never dealt with Hamlet, you would miss this.
The movie wargames with the back door password of joshua is a prime example of this.
You must keep the back doors of communication open this is why even during war diplomats talk with each other
This, as well as other information given, makes it look like you think the diplomat is there like it was in a non war setting. That they can do what ever they want. And no. You don't have to keep coms going. It is a smart idea, but it is not necessary.
If the house leaders seen him as you suggested he was
Did you read that part before saying anything in return? Again, the context should have shut down the response of you feelings while showing the fact that the houses wouldn't trust Kerensky.
Now for apples and oranges.
For exactly the same reasons as why the Allies never initiated their operation to assassinate Hitler.
Hitler didn't live past the wars end. Kerensky did. Now Kerensky was in a position to being to tell the houses what to do, and how they would work. Kerensky was a popular figurehead of the IS at this time. Simply making it look like a RWR soldier got to him would suffice. Making it look like another house did the deed and covered it up by making it look like the RWR did it would be even better, as it is likely the SL will find out the RWR didn't do it.
As for the allies and Hitler, with Hitler in command, the war was not going to be a drawn out affair, that would have happened if his generals were freed from his command.
So 30 cases out of thousands. Sounds very effective.
They can not punish those that do not adhere to the agreement. This is something that seems to be missed yet again.
Timeframe is what you are lacking.
Like the destruction of the HPG network.
This happens during the time where only Comstar knows how to deal with it, then it is devastating. When this happens when everyone knows and operates units and don't need the big antenna HPGs, then no. Having the SL survive, the mobile HPGs will be able to bypass the large antenna ones. Now this is not saying that they can do so without changing a whole bunch of coding, as all protocols and security methods.
Wow. The concept of no THRU trade and coms doesn't register? And for the most part, the TH controlled what flowed in and out of the area. They did not require much beyond raw resources, which they would have just taken if the SL fell apart. Much easier then dealing with all sorts of issues with the houses that are now hostile to you.
The TH would still have their programs in the HPG network, so they wouldn't have to just shut down everything to gain intel and such. A simple code that is part of the main coding to run the facitlity so you can't remove it without destroyed the operations of the HPG. Much like adding it into the BIOS of a computer nowadays.
And of all the alts out there, they do NOT suggest that their alts are still based on canon, nor do they demand a rewrite of canon to conform with their alt. When they make theirs, they get away from canon. So by keeping the SL alive, the FC isn't created. The clans don't invade. The jihad doesn't happen. Hmmm. Missed the main point of that?
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Requiem
08/08/21 05:12 PM
124.184.171.41
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Range Capital Missile Vs Naval energy weapons
Barracuda – extreme Range 50
White Shark – extreme Range 48
Killer Whale – extreme range 48
Naval Laser 55 – extreme range 54
Naval Heavy PPC – extreme Range 52
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Dropships
Given that naval weapons can engage a Dropship sized target how likely is it to reach close quarters?
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Funny how the argument comes out with the same defence and yet the answer still hasn't changed.
Especially since I have proven that I am NOT stripping the entire nations aerospace forces.
That all I am suggesting is about 12-14 Vengeance Carriers for both the DC and the FC
And how can the location not work when the Clans are all moving in a straight line?
In addition, I still have not received any tactic / strategy as to how your forces will engage a Clan warship circa 3050-51?
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Otherwise, you will have some organizations attack those vessels to try and seize the ordinance.
Really – and when what the last time Bond was sent in to do this?
Certain ships do carry them – are we ever told which ones – absolutely not though we could guess Carriers and Subs.
The same for RCTs are we told which ones – absolutely not but we could guess FS – Davion Heavy Guards and Davion Assault Guards – DC – certain Sword of Light units …. And maybe Genyosha …
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And the merchant marines are never safe. Even before warships were reintroduced, the were not safe.
And here I thought every House had agreed not to fire weapons at Jump-ships. As it is only with the introduction of the Clans do we see Jump-ships becoming targets of enemy fire once more.
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Even the best can't do like movies and tv shows and just look at the code and break it down. It requires time. Enter the wrong code at the wrong time, and the whole thing will erase itself.
And as demonstrated by ComStars abortive raid upon the New Avalon Institute of Science they were still working on decrypting it … thus no erase function! … especially since the Grey Death Legion proved that you could copy the core as many times as you wanted – As how else did every-one get a copy of it?
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Helm_Memory_Core
also once decrypted “With the Memory Core's information, many half-understood Star League era documents suddenly made sense.” Therefore, no testing required – all information supplied - it does work!
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when the SLDF went into the periphery, as being explained at that point, they were not trying to make it glow.
And yet this is exactly what did happen as how many SLDF Generals decided that since the First Lord had decided the Ayres convention was no longer applicable decided to use nukes en masse? (With the exception of Canopus)
So, when New Vandenberg started the second war it was time for payback and Kerensky lost 140 Regiments!
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Nothing in the game has such things stated.
And yet they get throne around like cady during the Jihad era and a few times even before that – so even though there is nothing in the game to say they are there. There is nothing in the game to say they don’t have them as well.
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This does not happen. Nukes are sent out in the game when they are going to be potentially used.
Since when does any military use a Just-in-time delivery logistical service for nukes?
Can anyone say for certainty that they will definitely be used in the next campaign unless you are going to use it as a first strike weapon – in which the enemy will then need to send off a HPG message to request theirs so that they can then retaliate in kind ….
Sorry but tis all too ridiculous – there will be certain units who will have nuclear ordinance within them 24/7 for every war as there is no getting around contingency planning – just as there is no way or removing nukes from Ballistic missile submarine – they are and always will be a strategic deterrence against the opposing Great House!
Then there would also be bunkers within the Great House that would also maintain a vast amount of nuclear ordinance for shipping at the same time!
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lens for lasers to make the ERLL.
R&D has its own set of variables when it comes to establish the product for mass manufacturing …
Existing widgets - And this is why you would have a quality control system built into the production process … so absolutely no delay when it comes to manufacturing, and you maintain a high level of certainty the product being manufactured is being kept to a high level of quality!
So why would production of lenses be kept at a low number and why would people want to sabotage making them?
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A simple 50 k bribe to the right person
And since when does a military contractor do not have an internal security force + a camera system that would put casinos to shame when it comes to security? … plus checks before you enter and after our leave etc.
Just gaining access would be and incredibly difficult job as it is not like you can just walk up and ask to go in.
Understanding the massive security arrangements that are established to ensure this never occurs seems to be the problem.
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when cracking security codes
And yet there are a massive number of courses on Cryptography. As well as military units who’s sole purpose it is this very function – where the best and brightest are trolled from universities .. as originally seen in the Israeli / China / Russia / US militaries – where now every military is going down this path … and who are attempting to develop very complex programs to complete this task …. Consider the film Sneakers.
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That they can do what-ever they want. And no. You don't have to keep coms going. It is a smart idea, but it is not necessary.
Diplomats are very highly trained and educated individuals – it would be very odd for them o go off book – and yes, it is a ‘very smart idea’ to keep comms open one wrong move and you have Armageddon … Consider the old black and white film Fail Safe as well as man others such as The Sum of all Fears.
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the fact that the houses wouldn't trust Kerensky.
First, it was the mad First Lord’s decision to put him in as Commander over the SLDF. Second, look at the rewards the Great Houses gained from putting him in as an incompetent regent – an incompetent First Lord who was easily swayed, manipulated and quite the paper tiger who is unlikely to go down the military adventurism path – the ability to double their official sizes of all Great House Military Units - greater power for the Council Lords – decreased power for the First Lord … etc … overall initially the House Lords would have been very happy that the Regent didn’t know what he was doing.
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Hitler didn't live past the wars end. Kerensky did.
And both Hitler and Kerensky have one similar trait – by allowing them to live out the war they both instigated policy that would see both of their armies smashed on the rocks, and almost totally destroyed.
By allowing Hitler to remain alive his plans ensured a quicker end to the war – the Allies viewed him as helping to end the war by enacting plans that ultimately reduced the Wehrmacht’s ability to fight defensively as well as initiating plans that reduced their ability to manufacture appropriate weapons for a defensive battle (Tanks are a good example) … and Kerensky, he killed off 95% of his total army! Thus, for the first time in a very long time the House Lord’s armies have the ability (if combined) to wage a war against the SLDF and the other Houses for the title of First Lord / territory.
If a more competent person was in charge? they may have even maintained the core of the SLDF and where would that put the House Lords? Still at the whim of the SLDF and whomever they decide to put on the throne!
So yes, I do believe the House Lords were very happy by ensuring an incompetent remained in charge of the SLDF!
Also post Amaris war he just slinked off – leaving the House Lords to start the First Succession War – so yes again they would have been very happy that they didn’t have to factor in the SLDF for their dreams of conquest.
Thus by allowing him to be Regent provided the Great Houses with massive rewards for their gamble of letting an incompetent remain as the SLDF commander.
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So 30 cases out of thousands. Sounds very effective.
Really? As stated each county has to allow the ICC to operate, and if this is not provided they cannot start the case– so countries like the USA do not ratify and thus their soldiers (and President) is effectively protected from the ICC.
So until all countries sign on there is little that can be done!
That said – what would happen if the ICC was run by ComStar and they actually used their power against anyone who broke the Ayres rules of war… Interdiction of the DC until their Coordinator is handed over for war crimes on Kentares? You would get a more ethical war – probably end all nuclear strikes overnight and ComStar would come away with the people’s admiration for being ethical.
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Timeframe is what you are lacking. Like the destruction of the HPG network. This happens during the time where only Comstar knows how to deal with it, then it is devastating.
No not really – if each house takes control over their section of the HPG then they have the people who know how to run and fix the HPG from the start (as they are not all on Terra) you actually do have people who know how to fix it on site.
Thus they can create a manual and they can understand how it works and they can know how to fix it and keep it working.
Also this gives all Houses the ability to place a massive number of HPGs upon all of their Ships … increased communication in house in the event someone starts destroying on world HPGs.
Quote:
And of all the alts out there, they do NOT suggest that their alts are still based on canon, nor do they demand a rewrite of canon to conform with their alt. When they make theirs, they get away from canon. So by keeping the SL alive, the FC isn't created. The clans don't invade. The jihad doesn't happen. Hmmm. Missed the main point of that?
Problem is that a writer can create a series of events to keep the FC established (how do we know the CC and FWL military are both pushed back time and again during the succession war so that the LA and the FS have a border prior to even discussing forming the FC?) , the new ‘Clans’ arrive (just not SLDF but someone else) The jihad can still happen – this time rather than Comstar and their religion you can create an entire Small House who are devout to one religion or to an important religious figure who actually starts a jihad in the game. As how many areas in space are devout to one type of religion?
So yes, you can deviate from canon and yet still get a similar outcome (or very similar) if so desired by the writer. Anything is plausible if written with style.
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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ghostrider
08/08/21 07:03 PM
45.51.181.83
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Ok. I was wrong on the missiles.
The dropships reaching firing range is dependent on skills of the gunners and dice rolls. Given the target numbers are higher in space fights then on the ground, it is more likely the big guns will be missing a lot. I do understand that the big guns don't need to hit often to destroy the dropships, but there is hope.
Aerospace fighters from across the entire military Army ect. – including Naval fleet arm. Thus, proving many times over that there are available numbers to conduct big wing attacks ….
That sounds like stripping the aerofighters from across the entire army. And with that, dropships and jumpships as well to carry those fighters. And when you remove a warship, invading the worlds they are guarding comes up. That means stripping ground forces. Or does this fly in the face of comprehension of retaking worlds?
Given what was known of the game, the elite units were not sent to deal with the clans, so having them stocked up on nukes doesn't make sense. The units going to fact the clans might, but so far, there has been NO indication anyone had nukes to face the clans. Based on this, nukes were not thought to be the weapon of choice against the clans. You might try it, but again, that changes the conditions of the future.
And here I thought every House had agreed not to fire weapons at Jump-ships. As it is only with the introduction of the Clans do we see Jump-ships becoming targets of enemy fire once more.
This is an outright lie as well. Several times jumpships were destroyed to prevent the enemy from contacting their capitals or other forces. It was done in the Skye rebellion, as well as other sneak attacks in the history. Then we add in pirates, as they try to prevent jumpships from fleeing. The clans did NOT agree to the cease fire on jumpship as well, so that part is only a partial incorrect assumption.
Also the agreement was just an implied one. There is no treaty that states the houses will not fire on them.
Therefore, no testing required – all information supplied - it does work!
Wow. You are easy to fool. The idea that the information might be taken by an enemy of the state, you think they didn't have false information in the files? And you believe to ship out thousands to millions of items without even testing to see if they work? And then add in having to recalibrate all the battle comps that would use them. Hmmm. Programming them to work to top efficiency takes time as well. Extra Coolant flow would be needed as well for things like lasers as the would heat up in spots that weren't properly cooled right. Any concept of what goes into engineering?
I would see all of your research facilities blowing up or melting down from your commands. Even units receiving the items going up in explosions and such.
Yeah. It wasn't expected the TC would use nukes. And what happened? Oh yeah. The nukes had to be shipped out to the SLDF forces for use. And you wonder how the SLDF lost so much when hitting Amaris?
Why would you have nuke launchers on the ships when the SLDF was adamant of keeping the Ares Convention going in their military units? If they were outlawed and your organization supported that, making a permanent thing that would house and launch them makes no sense. That space and weight could be dedicated to things you actually use, like fighter bays.
As for not being written, show me a single ship that has a dedicated launch mechanism devoted to using nukes in specific.
R&D has its own set of variables when it comes to establish the product for mass manufacturing …
Existing widgets - And this is why you would have a quality control system built into the production process … so absolutely no delay when it comes to manufacturing, and you maintain a high level of certainty the product being manufactured is being kept to a high level of quality!
So why would production of lenses be kept at a low number and why would people want to sabotage making them?
This statement makes me wonder why you bothered to even say anything about not testing things and just sending them out to units. It also makes me wonder if you understand WHY sabotage happens. I don't see why it would have to be explained.
You think one access code would allow you to use an entire system? Really? Each security level would have you enter a new code. They may actually have it set up so you couldn't access some parts thru a login code, as each would be separate from each other. Why would someone loading up missiles on a fighter need to know how to fix the fusion engine on a ground vehicle? Some sections would be fanatical in security to keep those from outside their specific field from gaining access.
The memory core was for information across multiple fields. They don't tend to share data on a whim.
And this is not counting the fact that the SL would have more security since the facility was outside the SL.
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ghostrider
08/08/21 07:33 PM
45.51.181.83
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Consider this one simple security concept that would be overlooked. Simple finger print scanner or retina scanner attached to the security protocols. Without one hooked up, the program would automatically wipe the drives. You would not even know that unless it prompts you for it.
it is a ‘very smart idea’ to keep comms open one wrong move and you have Armageddon
This is true when you can reach everywhere in a nation, and there being only one place for the leaders to be in. Now put that into context that you don't have to be on a world with the enemy. They can not reach you quickly. You can be on so many different worlds or even bases within a system. So the threat of Armageddon doesn't have the same threat.
As a side not, there are people on earth that think they can win a nuclear war. They are morons, but are ones that would start the war.
Second, look at the rewards the Great Houses gained from putting him in as an incompetent regent
I said this when you said they should have completely gotten rid of him. How did that go?
The problem that came about is Kerensky had his honor of duty quirk and would not give in to the house lords. He spent two years trying to keep the SL together, and did not fall for any one of their tricks.
Given the fact none of the houses helped with Amaris, I serious doubt Kerensky would have even entertained the idea of expanding the house militaries. He would have pushed for the houses to become reliant on the SLDF so this could not happen again.
Conjecture that Kerensky was the fault for the losses. It is possible that with another overall commander, the SLDF would have lost even more, or have sided with Amaris, destroying the SLDF. That is also a what if.
The 140 regiments lost to the TC shows the fight for Terra was going to be nasty. Amaris executed everyone in the throne room and went after the local units that were loyal to the SL. The defenses put up to protect Terra from invasion was set up to make sure invaders didn't reach Terra. If not for the size of the SLDF, Amaris would not have fallen.
Watch the news and see how many dictators have not been prosecuted for crimes against their people. And this is will be the end of the real world issues on my part dealing with this particular subject.
This happens during the time where only Comstar knows how to deal with it, then it is devastating.
No not really – if each house takes control over their section of the HPG then they have the people who know how to run and fix the HPG from the start
Context of what is written has been ignored once again. See where it says during the time only Comstar knows how to run the network?
See your response of no, not really. If each house takes over their section of the HPG? Then this was said: When this happens when everyone knows and operates units and don't need the big antenna HPGs, then no.
Does this not say what you had to suggest?
Again, read what is written including the context before responding. Comprehension need this.
Also this gives all Houses the ability to place a massive number of HPGs upon all of their Ships. it is said the SL did this, but no where in print that I can find says the houses did the same thing.
(how do we know the CC and FWL military are both pushed back time and again during the succession war so that the LA and the FS have a border prior to even discussing forming the FC?)
You do understand the facts that the CC has a border with the FS, and the FWL has a border with the LC? That would mean coms would be erratic at best since both the FWL and CC would have an interest in keeping them from communicating. As the HPG network would be locally run, they would not allow message to be repeated thru their territory just like the SL would prevent it. It is possible to send jumpships thru, but this would be risky at best as well. The unwritten agreement of not taking out jumpships would probably not be in effect. The nasty fighting of the succession wars would not have been there. Too much risk of the TH taking out forces to annex more territories from the houses.
Then the concept of the need to form the FC comes into question. If they can make the corridor to be in contact, would either or both nations reject the alliance, as they would not be in a position to need it? Or risk the TH hitting both to prevent the shift in power from the SL/TH to the FC?
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ghostrider
08/08/21 07:40 PM
45.51.181.83
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One last thing about the writing of the canon story line.
It fits most stories that the IS(heroes) comes under attack from a powerful and technologicly superior enemy and has to desperately hold them back while their scientists look for ways to stop them. Then someone helping the enemy invade, decides to fight the enemy and ends up saving the IS for a while.
Is this not the standard concept for a good story?
I am not saying there isn't some major flaws in it.
Sacrifice worlds and soldiers to slow them down is standard.
A mad dash to try and gain the tech to even reach the enemies level is standard.
A powerful force rises up to stop the advance is standard.
So complaining that the IS did not have the forces you wanted means you don't understand why a story develops like it does. In all stories, the heroes are always on the down side. If not then they are the evil invaders.
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Requiem
08/09/21 12:38 AM
124.184.171.41
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Quote:
Aerospace fighters from across the entire military Army ect.
Stripping fighters depends upon how the military has been formed – if you are going to use the games set military Units or are you going to recreate / reform the entire military – strip fighters to create big wings – but in my opinion this is the Only thing you can do!
It is interesting to note however - The SLDF uses names Hussar, Lancer etc to designate the unit’s role, and thus the TO&E that is expected with that unit.
All House units and Mercenaries, however, use names Hussars, Lancers etc as just that their names – or to identify where the unit originate from – thus there is no idea as to what the unit’s TO&E may be.
Therefore, I have chosen to re-write all the Houses and all their military – first change the names of their Mechs – as they do not indicate cultural identity (Panther for a Japanese Mech? Come on give it a proper name!) – or a cultural shift towards how each House may views how their military operates at a structural level - and in my opinion the existing military of all Houses does not create / demonstrate what in my opinion would be a professional military …. Thus, the need to fix it!
Consider my Wehrmacht above (or in other Forums the new Japanese, French and even CC versions for possible ideas) – they have a dedicated Luftwaffe Detachment – thus it would be extremely simple to reassign detachments to new force dedicated to a specific task.
However, the RR have dedicate units that are just aerospace fighters, so again it depends on the military / House and how they established their military.
In my opinion the Clan Invasion requires a complete revamp of all House units (if you are using the Canned Units supplied) – As there is now a requirement to form multiple Naval Air Units that were not there originally due to the absence of Warships within the IS. As once warships have been returned so too has carrier tactics and the idea of using aerospace fighters to engage and destroy them.
Which again demonstrates a complete hobbling of the IS to the Clans, in my opinion!
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the elite units were not sent to deal with the clans
And this makes how much sense?
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so having them stocked up on nukes doesn't make sense.
Except for when you factor in Turtle Bay and The Falcons using a warship in Lyran Space – these two events are a game changer – EVERY unit post these two incidents within both the DC and the FC, assigned to the Clan Front, WILL be issued with nukes to deal with the threat of Warships!
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Jumpships as legitimate targets
Ares convention – Appendix B – defined what a valid military target during warfare was.
- Appendix C & D – civilian assets …
Jumpships have always been a no-go target as they are considered lost technology and are extremely precious! Those who did target them – article M through O boards of inquiry and investigative commissions.
If Jumpships are fair game then why hasn’t all trade ceased due to a complete obliteration of certain houses transport capabilities – ie the CC for one.
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The idea that the information might be taken by an enemy of the state, you think they didn't have false information in the files?
And when verified that they are Star League and all of the experts say they are Star League are you still going to dither about using them or are you going to implement them?
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And you wonder how the SLDF lost so much when hitting Amaris?
Easy – Kerensky sitting outside the TH for how many years doing nothing whist Amaris built a new Army, dug in and handed nukes out like party favours – so again incompetence on a level that goes beyond ridiculous.
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Why would you have nuke launchers on the ships when the SLDF was adamant of keeping the Ares Convention going in their military units?
Addendum II 2579 The Star League unilaterally rescinded the Ares Conventions – ie as from 2579 the Ares Conventions no longer exist!
So in all reality the SLDF could have easily have placed nuke launchers wherever they wanted and obliterated whole worlds … however, they were supposed to be the good guys, and killing off Amaris held worlds would tarnish their Rep.
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As for not being written, show me a single ship that has a dedicated launch mechanism devoted to using nukes in specific.
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Nuclear_Weapons
Santa Ana (50Kt) can be mounted on a White shark – so launched from a white shark or AR-10 launcher.
Peacemaker (500Kt) can be mounted on a Killer Whale – and can be launched from an appropriate launcher.
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simple finger print scanner or retina scanner
Suggest having a look at the claims on the web as to how long it takes to hack them.
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So the threat of Armageddon doesn't have the same threat.
Really – consider the movie Fail Safe, then transpose it into the Battle Tech Realm – a single world killer ship has been give the go code – they are now proceeding to kill off multiple worlds along their assigned route – what’s next just let them kill them go (and start a tit for tat retaliation war) or attempt to stop them? And for this you will need the assistance of enemy leader … and their military …
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Kerensky had his honor of duty quirk and would not give in to the house lords. He spent two years trying to keep the SL together, and did not fall for any one of their tricks.
And the trick is they completely ignore everything he has to say on the topic … again shows how silly this getting – how many sub branch Cameron Lines are there in the IS? As per above I demonstrated there is one in the FWL – So you pick someone say here is your new first lord – Matter Closed – if you don’t like it I will obliterate you and your House – How simple is this? Star League Reformed … or you obliterate one house just to get the point across.
This is why you need a realist at the helm of a State not a person that has demonstrated that they have failed at one thing they were supposed to do.
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I serious doubt Kerensky would have even entertained the idea of expanding the house militaries.
And yet during his term as Regent the House Lords conspired to defeat him in Council – which demonstrates that in all reality whist he was regent all political power shifted from the office of First Lord / Regent to the House Lords – so it is a wonder why other more interesting bills were not introduced to ensure this new power dynamic became permanent by permanently removing many of the powers of the First Lord as well as returning military consignments back from the SLDF to the Houses who built then for the SLDF as per the original agreement. Thus expanding the houses military many times over and reducing the SLDF to ?
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That is also a what if.
Yes it is however how many would have mutinied at such a suggestion given the historical belief the common soldier had in the SLDF?
The 140 regiments lost to the TC shows the fight for the TC was going to nasty as the chain of command in the TC resided with the TC and not Amaris.
At that stage no one knew what Amaris was up to.
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The defenses put up to protect Terra from invasion was set up to make sure invaders didn't reach Terra.
The problem is that for the first two years Kerensky sat outside the TH those defences were not operational - so if Kerensky had just blitzkrieg the way forward from the get go lives would have been saved units would have been saved ships would have been saved and in all likelihood given how the SLDF numbers would have come out at the end the Star League could have been saved just under a new Cameron (from a sub branch).
But that would actually require a Kerensky who understood military and political strategies / tactics.
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Context - See where it says during the time only Comstar knows how to run the network?
And before ComStar ever became a reality it was a Star League Department – with Technicians and Operators etc within every HPG site on every world. So if you change their Employer from Star League Department to House Department and you ask then for all previous manuals so that you can learn how to run them / make them … then this becomes a reality. HPG SL becomes HPG FS, DC, LC, FWL, CC and all the periphery states get theirs also – so a conglomerate SL department is broken down by region and run by their House government.
So in the alt universe where comstar never exited – every house can place a HPG on every single ship they own.
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That would mean coms would be erratic at best since both the FWL and CC would have an interest in keeping them from communicating.
To do this they would both have to invade and retake the worlds they have lost from previous wars.
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would either or both nations reject the alliance
Again at the discretion of the person writing the story.
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Is this not the standard concept for a good story?
Depends on the writer and on the readers as to if they like the story.
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So complaining that the IS did not have the forces you wanted means you don't understand why a story develops like it does. In all stories, the heroes are always on the down side. If not then they are the evil invaders.
Depends on the writer and the story – how it is developed from beginning to end.
Stories can have heroes on both sides – they can also have villains on both sides and both at the same time – as both sides believe they are in the right and they will commit who knows what to win – Good example Homer’s iliad and odyssey (the books – not the TV films that completely make a hash of the original story because some actor does not want to be seen a real SOB and gets killed off half way through the book).
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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ghostrider
08/09/21 01:14 AM
45.51.181.83
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Yet again the topic of canon issues is shown to be in error because the alt did something different. Your complaint that canon did not have anything to fight back with was the context, and your statements shown depleting all units of their fighters to fight the clans, and when called on it, the alt was used to explain this.
Stop trying to use the Alt as a defense when talking about canon issues. The alt does NOT change the facts about canon.
Which again demonstrates a complete hobbling of the IS to the Clans, in my opinion!
Story writing aspect. Maybe the developers brought in a superior enemy for the IS to fight with their current forces? The fact that the clans used such a limited amount of forces gives the IS the chance to stop the invasion by numbers? Yeah. Hobble the IS. Might as well say the IS was one big happy nation and they found the clans home worlds by exploring and went in to kill them.
This goes back to using the end knowledge to try and change the beginning and middle of a story.
It makes a lot of sense in the beginning of the invasion. The clans were originally thought as nothing more then some pirates getting ahold of a cache and striking. As the FC and DC did not know how badly the other was hurt, or just how large the invasion was, thanks to Comstar covering it, they kept the wait and see attitude, as the elites were set up to deal with the other houses attacking. IE, you don't have your elites on the pirate border.
So Turtle Bay was why the SL had to carry nukes onboard a ship? That the ships that were patroling before the clans launched their attacks were to be loaded up with nukes? Unlike the reader, the in game characters did not have the end results available to change their defenses before they knew something was up. Timeline is set for a reason. I am guessing this doesn't make sense to you.
The ares convention was basically thrown out in the succession wars, and even during the rebellion and Amaris war. It was not reinstated as a treaty, but just loosely adhered to. If you want to say that means it was in effect all the time then that is your choice. Events prove otherwise.
And when verified that they are Star League and all of the experts say they are Star League are you still going to dither about using them or are you going to implement them?
Just because they were Star League files, doesn't mean the security wasn't trapped. The concept of testing the blueprints before production is where you find out if they are accurate or fakes. But it seems you take everything as harmless. Surprised you haven't had your computer filled with viruses with this outlook. The Niobian prince needs to move money and asks for your bank account number. For use of it, he will give you 50k. Please click here. Sheesh.
Addendum II 2579 The Star League unilaterally rescinded the Ares Conventions – ie as from 2579 the Ares Conventions no longer exist!
Funny how you continue to spout about the ares convention when it was nullified. Don't bother with it from now on. It was ended before the League fell.
Funny. The white shark launcher does not say nuclear launcher. Basically it is a fitted warhead. So again, where is it written there is a dedicated nuclear launcher on SL ships. Read DEDICATED in both responses.
Don't bother responding if you are not going to read the responses.
The whole paragraph: Consider this one simple security concept that would be overlooked. Simple finger print scanner or retina scanner attached to the security protocols. Without one hooked up, the program would automatically wipe the drives. You would not even know that unless it prompts you for it.
You see where it says without one hooked up, the program would automatically wipe the drives. You would not even know that unless it prompts you for it.
Your response: Suggest having a look at the claims on the web as to how long it takes to hack them.
Comprehension completely lost? Or just not bothering to read what is there?
Now we are back to casting wish spells? As now planet killers are in the game, and can wipe out worlds with a single shot? The threat of being destroyed by nuclear fire lessens as you add in more worlds. The Jihad was complete bs with their actions, as they had used magic jumpships to jump the nukes to worlds beyond their reach.
But you know what. The lack of actual reading and comprehension of responses have finally got me to the point of ignoring this garbage.
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Requiem
08/09/21 05:37 AM
124.184.171.41
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Quote:
Timeline is set for a reason. I am guessing this doesn't make sense to you.
Erroneous statement based upon projecting an incorrect assumption.
Quote:
The alt does NOT change the facts about canon.
Yet again the topic of canon issues is shown to be in error because it did … yes what did canon do when it came to the issue the ISs response to that of Warships?
My complaint is valid! … canon failed to produce any strategic / tactical response to the introduction of Clan Warships. The warship by its very existence now the biggest threat on the battlefield, by doing nothing the story by its very nature, now flawed.
It is the right of any player to create alternatives, if they desire, to rectify this! The alt by its very nature my attempt to rectify, what I perceive to be, a flawed and boring narrative.
This goes back to understanding the reality of a naval war when canon refuses to provide the IS with any other tactical / strategic response.
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they kept the wait and see attitude, as the elites were set up to deal with the other houses attacking.
And again demonstrating how woefully the narrative is going … This is Hanse Davion, Morgan Hasek Davion, Takashi Kurita and Theodore Kurita at the helm of these two realms …. Thus the Elites are being dispatched!
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That the ships that were patrolling before the clans launched their attacks were to be loaded up with nukes?
Those on the Periphery boarder – In all likelihood, no.
Quote:
Turtle Bay was why the SL had to carry nukes onboard a ship
Yes, The Clans have now demonstrated their ability to use Warships against civilians.
There is also that pesky issue regarding a Samurai’s honour and duty ….
Quote:
The Ares Convention
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Ares_Conventions
“ … Sheer necessity caused the development of an informal code called "Honors of War" during the Third Succession War. This code, based on the Ares Conventions, was created in an age of ever-decreasing technological knowledge and manufacturing capability, necessitating a code of conduct which would ensure the survival of both knowledge and the increasingly irreplaceable 'Mechs and JumpShips …”
Quote:
and all of the experts say they are Star League
Ie they have been proven to be authentic, that means tested to prove to work!
So does that mean we have to send them to a second and third lab because there is still no trust the information and that will just mean another who knows months testing it to prove what the first lab stated its all good ….
As time wasted on providing what the first lab stated will not matter at all in the scheme of things!
Quote:
anon - Addendum II 2579 The Star League unilaterally rescinded the Ares Conventions – ie as from 2579 the Ares Conventions no longer exist!
Alt – in full effect! Why it is the only way to keep the game civilized!
Quote:
Read DEDICATED in both responses.
FITTED WARHEAD!
Quote:
the program would automatically wipe the drives.
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Gray_Death_Legion
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Helm_Memory_Core
You see where it says “… the Legion produced several copies of the library and spread them to the best of their abilities …”
Therefore no finger print scanner or retina scanner attached to the security protocols of the Helm Memory Core as copies can be manufactured with ease!
Your response: Suggest having a look at the claims on the web as to how long it takes to hack them. Comprehension completely lost? Or just not bothering to read what is there?
Really? …
As now planet killers are in the game as a means of providing an extrapolation of the Film Fail Safe into the BattleTech Universe as a means of attempting to explain why channels of communication should be kept open … too adroit?
Still does not change my belief, the cannon story is incredibly flawed and that I highly prefer my version of events as it provides all parties involves with more challenging and fun scenarios and the story has far more interesting characters who actually live up to their past deeds.
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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Requiem
02/23/23 06:01 AM
1.158.193.188
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Lyranische konstitutionelle Monarchie
(‘Lyran Constitutional Monarchy – Das Reich’)
Einigkeit und Recht und Freiheit
(‘Unity and Justice and Freedom’)
Time period: 2341 – present
Capital World: Saxony (Tharkad)
Ruler: Kaiser(in)
Military: Reich Wehrmacht (RW) : Gott mit uns (‘God with us’)
Armed Forces High
Command: Oberkommando der Wehrmacht. (OKW)
Intelligence Agency: Sicherheitsdienst (SD) (‘Security Service’)
Origin:
Originally the Von-Steiner’s home-world was located on Vega, within the Lyran Constellation. A multi-cultural world with individuals from Terra – Asiatic and Europe (primarily Scandinavian).
In the late 23rd Century an invasion led by the expansionist military forces of Ryuujin no Teikoku (Empire of the Dragon King) engaged in a war of liberation of Vega. Their once peaceful and idealistic world became a battleground of survival – though when their neighbouring worlds defected, siding with Ryuujin no Teikoku, this imposed a single punitive course of action. They, therefore, became refugees, fleeing as best they could and the few surviving families began their forced emigration, including the Von-Steiner family and the other original German colonist families.
Over time they emigrated to the new colony world of Saxony where they began forming a new national state. Where resentment for the loss of Vega has in turn created a long-held wish of the Princely House of Von-Steiner, the military, and the citizens to reclaim this world they lost and to exact revenge on Ryuujin no Teikoku by Das Reich.
Monoculturalism:
Muti-culturalism has been deemed a failure by Das Reich. By tolerating cultural diversity through institutionalised legislation in the past has been determined a failure due to the high rate of social anxiety. It was therefore decided that only in a mono-culturist society can an empire remain strong in the face of overwhelming aggression by external sovereign states.
To this end pressure was originally exerted throughout society to conform to the single Germanic culture, – where authorities implemented a Germanisation policy - to demonstrate their Patriotism to Das Reich. Over time, however, this pressure has been relaxed as ultranationalism pride by the population has established a strong regimentation within society ie. a monocultural society has become normalized throughout Das Reich.
Socio-Political Structure
The only waring sovereign state to be nearly surrounded by multiple other waring sovereign states - Ryuujin no Teikoku (Empire of the Dragon King); United Worlds Republic; Ancien – La Cour Du Dauphin(e); The Equinox Alliance; The Canopian Matriarchy; The Andalusian Autonomous Dominion; and lastly the Terran Theocracy.
As a response they have had to institute innovative technological programs and governmental policies to ensure a vast military industrial complex, in order to survive.
The government of the Lyranische konstitutionelle Monarchie (‘Lyran Constitutional Monarchy – Das Reich’) is a stable and remarkably representative government. Its stability is inherent in the strong Steiner Monarchy that allows its citizens personal freedoms despite their ‘martial’ culture.
Despite Das Reich’s dedication to open debate (broader disclosure) the affective atmosphere of the Privy Council, the Estates General and the Bundestag are essentially complicit with intrigue and plots. They will, however, put aside their differences in the event of presenting a united front due to a threat from beyond their borders.
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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Requiem
02/23/23 06:02 AM
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Communication
Functionality: Due to the necessity of communication throughout Das Reich – personal, business, security, and government – a single Hyper-Pulse Generators (HPG) state owned and operated contractor is therefore required to establish a single HPG upon every world (and multiple HPGs upon regional command worlds and those worlds linking them with the Capitol world), to allow for the transmission of communication – Thus it is under the command of the Department of Communication.
It is however a necessity for the Government and Military to allow for instantaneous two-way communication to ensure an efficient communication on a hub and spoke approach between Das Reich’s Capital World and that of the Erzherzog(in)’s – Archduke / Archduchess – Regional Capital World.
For this reason, each of these worlds maintain their own …
Armed Forces High Command: Oberkommando der Wehrmacht. (OKW)
Intelligence Agency: Sicherheitsdienst (SD) (‘Security Service’)
Estates General and Bundestag Facilities.
In so doing this, therefore, reduces the necessity transport time and resources if every dignitary was required to be transported every year to Das Reich’s Capital world – and reduces the time of every dignitary may be absent from their respective world.
Government:
Kaiser(in): Constitutional Hierarchical Monarchy system, in which the reigning monarch – through the Constitution - is the commander in chief of the Wehrmacht as well as authority over all Nobilities forces and their logistics requirements / reserves, thus ensuring the security of the realm, all foreign policies, and affirming war upon foreign realms.
All members of the Kaiser(in)’s family are therefore expected to graduate from a military officer’s college and serve within the Reich Wehrmacht for a minimum period of five years.
The Kaiser(in) has the right of control over all Government Agencies through the appointment of their executive officer. Thus they also have control over the economy as a whole through the Federal Reserve. They also have the ability to veto a Bill / providing the need for substantial alterations, and also affirms a Bill into law and may also provide policy proposals in the social / economic / educational interest of the Reich for their general discussion and opinions.
The Kaiser(in)’s special power is the right to enforce her/his will without consulting the Privy Council, the Estates General or the Bundestag once war has been invoked. Recent Kaiser(in)s, however, have taken to informing them of their intentions, both to gain insight into how these policies will be received and to soothe political egos – by contributing towards the governance of Das Reich.
The Kaiser(in)’s use of her / his absolute power is generally considered acceptable by the citizens of Das Reich in times when swift action is necessary.
The position of Kaiser(in) is open to both sexes and the position of heir-apparent is open to any child of the current Kaiser(in) – identified as the most suitable to be the next Kaiser(in) - and is named Kaiser(in)-Designate.
<The children of the Kaiser(in) therefore must compete to prove their worth and thereby prove their candidacy over their fellow siblings as the most appropriate heir by gaining the support of many of the noble families as possible in order to support their bid for the position of Kaiser(in) – through military prowess – foreign and domestic policies – the establishment of internal alliances. The final decision is therefore determined by the Kaiser(in) in consultation with members of their immediate family, the Reich Chancellor, and the Bundestag may be requested.>
The ruling Von-Steiner family also wields economic power – As they have managed to amassed a vast personal fortune in the form of major landholdings on several key worlds early in the formation of Das Reich and controlling shareholdings in key military and civilian industries.
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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Requiem
02/23/23 06:02 AM
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Royal Court: The Reich’s Royal Court is the extended household and their courtiers. These courtiers include all those who regularly attend the Kaiser(in), including the monarch or noble’s camarilla and retinue, the household, and nobility, bureaucrats, and those with court appointments, bodyguards, emissaries from other Successor / Periphery States or visitors to the court. Foreign princes / princesses and foreign nobility in exile may also seek refuge at court.
Capital Building (et al): The Royal Court has their seat in Hohenzollern Castle upon Saxony, a modern representation of the ancestral home of the imperial family of Germany on Terra. The vast underground castle incorporates myth, literature, grand opera, and Teutonic chivalry in its architectural and decorative palette. The result is a cross between neo-Romanesque and neo-Gothic mixed with fairy tale. The above ground entry buildings include an exuberant concoction of spires, turrets, battlements with what appears to be pitched roofs set atop a massive rocky crag and surrounded by an evergreen forest incorporating mystical pools and waterfalls to provide the appearance of a mystical woodland.
In the event the Royal Court may is required to be mobile, an itinerant court, as and when the required situation demands the Royal Court is therefore transferred to the Royal Flagship - Kriegsschiff der Majestat (KM) Sigrun.
Formal ceremony settings, etiquette and hierarchy flourish in this highly structured court setting during social settings, featuring, for example, Napoleonic Court Uniforms.
Orders of Chivalry have also formed and are currently an important part of court culture since the early 27th Century.
The Royal Household: The function of the Kaiser(in) is styled like a secular stratocracy. It’s overall objective, therefore, is to demonstrate the highest (allerhochste) majesty, dignity, and military aptitude to her / his subjects and to other sovereignties.
The Imperial House: The members of House Von-Steiner are ranked as princes and princesses of the blood imperial, and then with the honorary tile of Erzherzog(in) – Archduke / Archduchess. Their permanent address, marriage and service (career) to the Das Reich must be agreed to by the Kaiser(in).
In the situation of a Morganatic marriage (people of unequal social rank) as the inherited title is non-hereditary neither the lesser status bride / groom or any progeny will not inherit the higher title or privileges / duties associated with this title – they are however allowed entailed succession property / title / duty from their lower ranked parent.
The lesser status bride / groom will however be provided with the informal title of Consort.
The Imperial Court: The Kaiser(in)’s household, her / his personal officers and the premises where they reside are called Hof – court.
The officials managing the Imperial Court, and drawn from among the nobles and common citizens of Das Reich and chosen based upon their aptitude, from the lowest positions to that of the highest positions and include …
Obersthofmeister The Grand Master (Steward) head of the imperial household as Steward / Chamberlain – managing the imperial household, in charge of all court ceremonies and the arrangements for all state ceremonies.
Obersthofmarschall The Grand Marshal, the official who is charge of supervising all its economic and legal affairs.
Oberstkammerer The Grand Chamberlain, the official who is in charge of supervising all its affairs / correspondence with the Privy Council, the Estates General, the Bundestag, and requests for an audience with the Kaiser(in) by the Nobility or by ordinary citizens.
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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Requiem
02/23/23 06:03 AM
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Progeny of the
Kaiser(in): There has been a variety ‘relationships’ between the Kaiser(in) and their children. However as far as society [media] is concerned, they are completely off limits, as the majority of Kaiser(in)s desire to ensure a ‘normal’ as possible childhood / adolescence for them, until they assume their adult position within society.
Their education, however, includes advanced classes to prepare them for their future duties.
Privy Council: A formal body of advisers (agent provocateur) to the Kaiser(in) and a vital part of the government.
Its membership mainly comprises …
The Reich’s Erzherzog(in)s (Archduke / Archduchess).
Armed Forces High Command: The Oberkommando der Wehrmacht. (OKW)
Intelligence Agency: The Sicherheitsdienst (SD) (‘Security Service’)
Senior Politicians from the Bundestag representing each of the Government’s Departments may also be requested to attend when required to present specific information.
The Council has also become the unofficial liaison between the Kaiser(in) and the Estates General (and in reverse when necessary).
It may also perform many of the mundane, yet important, tasks that the Kaiser(in) prefers to delegate.
Nobility: A hereditary peerage / appointment by the Kaiser(in). The Nobility’s role is to act as the Kaiser(in)’s representative and to ensure all Statutes passed by parliament are correctly enforced by their respective planetary government. They also have the right to dismiss their world’s government in the event they fail in their responsibility.
Chivalric Ranks within the Reich Peerage System.
Kaiser(in) – Emperor / Empress.
Kaiser(in)-Designate – Chosen Heir Apparent
Furst(in) – Honorary Title as Prince / Princesses of the Blood Imperial until the Kaiser(in)-Designate is chosen and their ascension is complete. At which time those not chosen will assume the (non-heredity) rank of Erzherzog(in) – Archduke / Archduchess – and thus assume their position / duty in noble society.
Erzherzog(in) – Archduke / Archduchess – has Erzherzog(in) Von preposition before family name and usually are / were a close relative of the current or past Keiser(in) – Provided with a land grant that includes multiple dutchies, called a Bundesland, for which they are responsible to ensure the miliary security force has been established and appropriately equipped upon these multiple dutchy worlds. In addition, they usually are patrons of the arts, universities, hospitals, charities etc.
All other Herzog(in) under the control of a Erzherzog(in) if called to arms in the defence of the Reich – they have no choice but to march to war under their Erzherzog(in)’s Banner.
Herzog(in) – Duke / Duchess – has Herzog(in) Von preposition before family name – Provided with a land grant that includes multiple worlds of importance, called a duchy, for which they are responsible to ensure the miliary security force has been established and appropriately equipped upon these multiple worlds. In addition, they usually are patrons of the arts, universities, hospitals, charities etc.
All other families with Peerage within a duchy are beholden to their Herzog(in) if called to arms in the defence of the Reich – they have no choice but to march to war under their Herzog(in)’s Banner.
Markgraf – Margrave / Marquess – has Markgraf Von preposition before family name – Provided with a land grant that includes a single world of importance for which they are to provide a miliary security force applicable to their status / wealth.
Graf(in) – Count(ess) – intermediate noble rank – has Graf(in) Von preposition before family name – Provided with a land grant that includes a city(s) of importance for which they are to provide a miliary security force applicable to their status / wealth.
Burggraf – Viscount(ess) – has Burggraf Von preposition before family name – Usually provided with a land grant.
Ritter – Knight – Lowest rank within the nobility – has Ritter Von preposition before family name – Usually provided with a small land grant.
Edelfrei – free noble / knight – has Edelfrei Von preposition before family name – A non-hereditary title of a civilian individual, raised from the masses, and placed in a position of responsibility by the Kaiser(in).
des Gewandes – of the robe – eg. Ritter des Gewandes (Knight of the Robe) – If the individual is provided with / has the title of Knight or Vicount(ess) and yet the title does not come with a land grant / or have lost their land grant (world in question has been conquered) they are required to add ‘of the robe’ to their title.
If the individual is a Count(ess) or Margrave / Marquess and they have lost their land grant due to being conquered, they are allowed to form a Mercenary Unit in order to win a new land grant / regain their old land grant from the enemy.
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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Requiem
02/23/23 06:04 AM
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Informal terms of endearment …
Juncherre – young noble – the daughter / son of a count or above – a term of respect to their position.
Halter(in) – Retainer –An individual of lower Chivalric Rank is a vassal to their liege-lord – where the lower ranked individual has been provided with a fief (their own land / or lived with their lord / provided a stipend of money etc.) in return for services to their lord – to protect her/him and to do her /him justice in her/his court.
Different Ranks and different duties can apply here …
The Retainer’s status / duties are liked to their military rank.
Assigned permanently to their Lord’s military as a Knight (Lowest Officer Rank) to that of second in command.
Managing the lord’s manor and its estate (Administrative Position) – including supervising the day-to-day tasks of the Lord’s manor staff.
Attending to her/his Lord, specifically whist court was in session (aide-de-camp).
<Nt. Noble children who will not be inheriting their parent’s title usually attempt to become Retainers within other prestigious noble families in order to gain fame / a title of their own through a successful military operation / career.>
Parliament,
The Estates General: Is the second chamber of the Parliament of the Reich.
Membership is by heredity appointment and includes Das Reich’s …
Herzog(in) – Duke / Duchess
Markgraf – Margrave / Marquess
Graf(in) – Count(ess)
The Estates General scrutinizes bills that have been approved by the Bundestag. It regularly reviews and amends Bills from the Bundestag. While it is able to prevent Bills passing into law, in certain limited circumstances, and it can delay Bills and force the Bundestag to reconsider their decisions, thus acting as a check on the more powerful Bundestag.
The Estates General often requests that the Kaiser(in) takes part in important debates about a proposition and may sometimes request an alteration to a Bill to make it more acceptable. The Kaiser(in) is not obliged to do so because allowing the Estates General to comment on the Bill before it is signed into law is its right.
Bundestag: Is the supreme legislative body of the Reich. It is the only federal representative body that is directly elected by the people of the planet they represent every five years under the first-past-the-post system.
Also, in theory, the Estates General, can de jure depose a ruling Kaiser(in) and choose a suitable replacement from their immediate family in the event they have been found incapable of performing their role or are guilty of State Treason.
A super-majority of 80% of both the Bundestag and the Estates General is required to enforce the ruling.
Leader: Reich Chancellor, the head of the federal government of the Reich, and is elected from the members of the Bundestag
Main Organ: Reich Cabinet, its role is to direct government policy and make decisions about national issues (solving current internal national problems). Cabinet meetings, ministers present bills – proposed laws – prepared by their government departments.
List of main contentious political beliefs …
Military’s Operational Budget vs. other department’s budgets (and all the programs that came with a military Budget – including R&D, and new Naval assets, etc) – some suggest it should be capped at a fixed percentage of GDP.
Wants Das Reich Government to play a greater leading status in offensive / defensive strategy.
More / less military raiding strikes against other sovereign states / rejects military missions abroad altogether.
Transfer monies from military to security to fight against organized crime and terrorism
Challenging <sovereign state>‘s growing influence as a possible military threat / growing human rights violations.
Focus on efficient market tools eg. reduced taxation for increased technical development / personnel – reduced unemployment.
Focus on socialist market tools eg. increased welfare / old age pension – a “guaranteed income” minimum wage – Easing taxes on lower / middle incomes and increases taxes for the wealthy.
Infrastructure Development – industry / rental / housing market numbers.
Stronger / decreased market regulation.
Increasing / decreasing aid to outermost / external sovereign states.
Increase Jump-ship development to promote trade / security.
Increase / decrease climate / environmental reforms.
Commitment to the fundamental right to asylum.
Restrictions on who can apply for asylum.
The ability to deport refugees who have committed criminal offensives whist in Das Reich.
Promotion of counter-culture beliefs and attitudes.
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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Requiem
02/23/23 06:04 AM
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Verfassung: Grundrechte – Fundamental Rights (addendum.)
(Constitution) I. Basic Rights
Citizenship / Nationalisation under a single monoculturalism doctrine - Human rights – Personal freedoms – Equity before the law – Freedom of faith and conscience – Freedom of expression, arts and sciences – Freedom of assembly – Freedom of association – Privacy of correspondence, and telecommunications – Freedom of movement – Occupational Freedom – Compulsory military and alternative civilian service – Inviolability of the home – Marriage, family, children, educational system – Property and Inheritance – Right of asylum – Right of petition, etc.
II. Obligations and Duties of the Citizens, the Nobility and the Kaiser(in) in a State of Defence –
II.A. Citizens
To support their government in preparation and the defense of the state time of war.
Compulsory military service requires all citizens to enrol for three years, usually at age 18 (later for university-level students or four years part time whist obtaining their degree).
II.B. Nobility
To support their government in preparation and the defense of the state time of war.
Nobility Rank confers compulsory military service in the event of a state of Defence.
Defense Assistance with the establishment of a personal reserve force upon their home-world – allowable size applicable with their rank :-
Though not legally required to maintain a personal reserve force the lowest two ranks are allowed to own their own military vehicles, that then can be assimilated into Noble’s (of higher rank) military force …
Ritter – Knight – As pilot of a single BattleMech / Aerospace fighter etc.
Burggraf – Viscount(ess) – As commander of a single BattleMech / Aerospace Fighter Lance etc.
The following Noble ranks, however, are required by law to maintain a reserve force for the defense of their home-world …
Graf(in) – Count(ess) – A Company Combat Group.
Markgraf – Margrave / Marquess – A Battalion Combat Group.
Herzog(in) – Duke / Duchess – A Regiment Combat Group.
Erzherzog(in) – Archduke / Archduchess – A Brigade Combat Group.
II.C. Kaiser(in)
Articles of Acceptance the command and governance of the Wehrmacht is vested in the Kaiser(in).
Declaration of a state of defence / Emergency Provisions, Power of Command of the Kaiser(in), Use of the Military, Rights and Duties of Member Worlds and their Governments, Rank, Duration of Emergency Provisions, Repeal of emergency measures, Peace measures etc
The Kaiser(in), however, is required by law to maintain a personal honour guard …
Kaiser(in) – Emperor / Empress – At a minimum, a Brigade Combat Group.
III. The Privy Council, The Nobility, The Estates General, The Bundestag, and The Reich Chancellor
Election, Convening, Term, Rules of Procedure, Scrutiny, Committees of inquiry / Internal Affairs / External Affairs / Armed Forces, Petitions Committee, Parliamentary Oversight etc.
IV. Legislation and Legislative Procedure
Bills, Procedure, Passage of Laws, Amendment of Laws, Issuance of statutory instruments, Legislative emergency, Certification, Promulgation, Entry into force, etc
V. Administration
VI. The Judiciary
VII. Finance
Official Language: German (most consider High German or Hochdeutsch to be the most ‘official’ version of the language.)
National Anthem: Nationalhymne – Lyranische Erinnerung – (Lyran Remembrance)
Official Currency: Reichsmark.
Religion: United Protestant (Lutheran, Calvinist) 54.64%
Catholic 23.75%
Other 21.42%
Characteristics: Civilian – Single monoculturalism society.
(Sociology) Many see das Reich as deriving from the Germanic Templar Knights – which has become ingrained in their militaristic cultural aspects to promote their virtues.
Time punctuality seen as a high priority (work and social events).
A ‘directness’ in communication – openness and sincerity that avoids polite superficiality.
The people tend to be thrifty, be sensible, and respect one another’s privacy.
They typically respect the structure and laws of society to an above average degree.
There is no place that this sense of order is more apparent than in business culture.
Traditionally, people tie a lot of importance to the notion of family and community.
They therefore include respecting human dignity, the rule of law, the Kaiser(in)’s role as ruler, democracy and the separation of powers, as well as the obligation to support freedom and peace.
Military
A Terran minister, Ursula von der Leyen, once stated that “Only a military identity that is built on the fundamental values of our Basic Law can be a source of meaning and traditions for our Bundeswehr, which is committed to liberal and democratic objectives”.
Professionalism, honour, and duty are the cornerstone of military culture.
Both within and without the military there is a drive for continual technological improvement to improve their society and their military.
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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Requiem
02/23/23 06:05 AM
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(Culture) Single multicultural society with progressive policies.
Culture and people, to a large extent, are about reason and logic.
Residents are expected to respect order and structure as well as the church.
High percentage of population prefer an urban dwelling (close to other family members). Which also propagates urban gardening – even to apartments. Communal gardens are common – known as a schrebergarten.
Commitment towards protecting the environment over business profit.
School and work – ingrained in most people that they should be conscientious and hard working.
Sport is an integral element of society – both in terms of participation and spectating High percentage of population participate / belong to a club).
Take pride in doing a good job.
When not at work they partake in a range of leisure activities and pastimes.
Large array of food and drink, history, and leisure activities that are seen as important aspects of their culture.
(Education) The responsibility of the Department of Education within each Bundesland to adhere to Das Reich’s overall educational policy.
Optional Kindergarten (nursery school) education is provided for all children between one and five years old.
School attendance / school uniforms are thereafter compulsory.
Public schooling is funded by the state and do not charge fees, except for a small one-off semester fee (Semesterbeitrag).
Private schooling individuals required to pay the full fee.
Primary School Grundschule
Age 5 to 9 – Grade 1 to 5 – To prepare the pupil for Lower-Secondary School.
Secondary School Weiterfuhrende Schulen
Lower-Secondary School – Age 10 to 14 – Grades 6 to 10 – To prepare the pupil for Upper-Secondary school.
At the end of the school day most attend club activities / sports activities prior to going home for the day.
Upper-Secondary School – Age 15 to 17 – Grades 11 to 13 – Vast variety of programs …
1. Intensified education stream to prepare pupils for military higher education (Cadet Corp.) – and finishes with the final examination Allgemeine Hochschulereife (Abitur or Abi).
2. Intensified education stream to prepare pupils for civilian higher education – and finishes with the final examination Allgemeine Hochschulereife (Abitur or Abi).
3. A three-year course to provide career-orientated instruction - vocational education and training (VET).
4. A three-year apprenticeship-orientated instruction - vocational education and training (VET).
Military Education General Entry - Compulsory Military Service. In addition to their combat training an individual can also apply to start / continue with their vocational education and training (VET) on completion of basic training. In order to prepare them to enter the workforce as a technician etc upon completion of their compulsory military service or to remain within the military as a career.
Tertiary Education University Admission – minimum Abitur entrance exam qualification score required … where individual, with the pre-requisite score can attend …
Bundeswehr – military university – Officer Corp degree-awarding higher education institution … or
Universitat – university – attending a degree-awarding higher education institution … or
Fachhochschulen – attending a University of Applied Sciences … or
Universitaten – attending a doctorate-awarding higher education institution.
Nt. Compulsory Military Service during or upon completion of degree / doctorate is a legal requirement.
Commercial Planetary
Education As all worlds are technologically self-sufficient Das Reich ensures that any underlying technological development is proliferated to all member worlds as efficiently and effectively as possible. As it does the empire no good to hoard technology within one corporation on one world – thus the Keiser(in) has promoted economic development from one world to multiple worlds and then all worlds of equal technological development by allowing franchises / strategic alignments to be established upon these worlds in exchange for reduced tax rates.
By proliferating technology quickly and efficiently this has established das Reich as the most advanced of all the sovereign states as well as maintaining the most advanced worlds with the most advanced military technology.
Das Reich also maintains the largest Jump-ship fleet of all successor states through establishing a space stations / manufacturing / repair facility within all highly advanced systems – that are also equipped with large naval weapon systems.
Commercial / Military
University Research
and Development Research and innovation drives economic growth, national productivity, and wellbeing within Das Reich. Their research not only leads to new products and new industries, it also improves health and wellbeing and helps solve complex social problems.
<Nt. The military / security agencies conduct missions within other sovereign states to obtain any new technology, in order for it, to be reverse engineered within university R&D facilities to therefore maintain their technological superiority.>
(Food and Drink) One of the few remnants of a once multi-cultural society – good recipes.
Food culture revolves around the preparation of hearty meals – to be eaten as a family unit – at least once a week the entire family (children, parents, grand-parents, aunts and uncles / cousins etc.) may come together for a “Grand-Family-Meal” – to keep the family unit strong. Usually on a Sunday post church or to watch the popular sitcom ‘The Stein-hearts’ together.
Dining out is also popular – most urban dwellings include a vast range of fast-food shops, bakeries, deli outlets and gourmet restaurants – food markets, pop-ups and street food are also popular.
Alcohol consumption is fairly-high and is enjoyed in both bars and at home – Ranked by beer, wine, schnapps, and brandy
Afternoon Tea – ‘kaffee und Kuchen’ – family and friends stop working to come together in the afternoon for coffee and cake.
(Holidays) Passionate about travel – taking holidays is an important part of their lifestyle.
Holidays include (not limited to …) …
Karneval – Carnival – March 1 – full body costumes and masks (wacky regalia), parades, float rides, marching bands, and elaborate dances / costume balls – Women run amuck and are allowed to kiss any unsuspecting man.
Muttertag – Mother’s Day – May 8
Oktoberfest (key tradition) – September 17 to October 3 – beer, sausage, hiking, folk music, traditional dress (Lederhosen (men – knee length set of breeches complete with bracers, worn over a short sleeve shirt) / Dirndl (women – bodice, pinafore, and full skirt).
Volkstrauertag – “Peoples day of mourning” - commemoration two Sundays before the first day of Advent. Commemorates members of the all nations and civilians who died in armed conflict.
Kaisers Geburtstag (Deutsches Kaiserreich) – Emperor’s / Empress’ Birthday – July 22
Christian traditions are observed and celebrated throughout the year.
They take great pride in their motor vehicles – driving is seen as a relaxing pastime.
(Traditions) Schultute – on the first day of school, a traditional gift is provided to the new student.
New Year’s Eve – Fireworks – and using the quote “The same procedure as last year?”, who’s origin / meaning is now long forgotten in time.
In den Geburtstag reinfeiern – the act of celebrating one’s birthday – starts as soon as the clock strikes midnight. That way the Geburtstagkind (‘birthday kid’) is surrounded by her / his loved ones for the first few minutes or hours on her / his birthday.
Tanzverbot – ‘dancing ban’ – dancing on certain Christian Holidays my be forbidden by certain worlds.
The Stein-hearts – a barely fictionalized account of the Von Steiner family – as a foreigner living in the Reich, you can consider yourself truly integrated the first time a friend invites you over to watch The Stein-hearts. Public screenings of the show are often held in bars and people also like to gather at home to watch the weekly episode.
(Economy) The most advanced educational system in the Inner Sphere in which technology is proliferated throughout das Reich has created an impressive economic development - Large and stable (for the most part).
Average working five-day week for 35-40 hours.
At the end of the week many go and have a drink together before going home.
Productivity – high.
Most worlds include an extensive and excellent Autobahn (motorway) network – that includes a lack of national speed limit (reduced insurance as speed increases).
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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Requiem
02/23/23 06:06 AM
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Provinces:
Das Reich, as a sovereign state, consists of sixteen Bundesland (federated) states in which their names are derived from Terra – Germany States or Cities.
Each Bundesland also adopts their Liege Lord’s Heraldry to represent their state, and over the centuries has become unique due to Liege House’s influence …
Examples Include:-
Rhineland Bundesland
Liege Lord: Erzherzog(in) Von Croiztier
Capital World: Azure (Skye)
Duchies: 12
Worlds: 43
Location: Outset – Zenith-Sinistral
Adjacent: Orthodox Papal State, Ryuujin, and Tintagel
House Von Croiztier:
An ambitious and cunning family who desire power for the sake of power – dubious loyalty to House Von Steiner. Assumed leaders of a hidden terrorist separatist group who are attempting to subvert local Wehrmacht Commands to their cause.
Military:
As the Rhineland Bundesland has been one of the most frequent targets of invasions, raids and counterattacks as such they field some of the most elite units within the Reich Wehrmacht.
Austria Bundesland
Liege Lord: Erzherzog(in) Von Reinhardt
Capital World: Augusta (Kannon)
Duchies: 7
Worlds: 21
Location: Outset-Zenith
Adjacent: Ryuujin
House Von Reinhardt:
The Erzherzog(in) Von Reinhardt family are driven by a desire to regain both their former wealth and their former planet-holdings.
Military:
Propensity for aerospace units and naval aerospace carriers as their forward strike unit.
Bavaria Bundesland
Liege Lord: Erzherzog(in) Von Sydow
Capital World: Lindau (Alexandria)
Duchies: 7
Worlds: 25
Location: Outset Zenith-Sinistral
Adjacent: Internal – Rhineland, Austria, and Kiaochau
House Von Sydow:
Characterized as a House of inner strength and ethical beliefs.
The Von Sydow family believe in championing those of the lower-class whilst attempting to reform the status conscious society – this has brought them into conflict with many other status conscious families within the region.
The Von Sydow family, however, are considered strongest supporters of the Kaiser(in) - to the point many consider them to be Zealots.
Military:
The Armed Forces are one of the largest government agencies headed by the Erzherzog(in).
Specifically termed as combat service support Bundesland. The Bavarian military’s unique location enables them to provide combat service support / fire support and operational assistance to combat elements within their adjacent Bundesland – Rhineland, Austria, and Kiaochau – as and when requested by their Erzherzog(in).
Luxembourg Bundesland
Liege Lord: Erzherzog(in) Von Kesselring
Capital World: Vienna (Orkney)
Duchies: 6
Worlds: 25
Location: Median Zenith
Adjacent: Ryuujin
House Von Kesselring
In a similar situation as that of their neighbour, Austria Bundesland, the Erzherzog(in) Von Kesselring family are also driven by a desire to regain both their wealth and their former planet-holdings. To this end, however, the Von Kesselring family have increased construction to the number of underground fortress cities within their Bundesland – thus preparing the most formidable defensive positions fortified with key observation positions, gun-pits, concrete bunkers, turreted BattleMech emplacements, minefields, and flooded areas.
Military:
Wehrmacht units within the Luxembourg Bundesland are experts in defensive strategies, in depth and elastic defence – they are masters in the art of attrition warfare.
Essenheim Bundesland
Liege Lord: Erzherzog(in) Von Rommel
Capital World: Morgen (Tamar)
Duchies: 13
Worlds: 47
Location: Medium / Extreme Zenith
Adjacent: Ryuujin, Dauphine, and Asguard
House Von Rommel
Maintains a reputation for chivalry, apolitical, and brilliant commanders
Military:
Fast-developing mobile battle – Beliefs that included…
- taking the initiative and not allowing the enemy forces to regroup leads to victory.
- taking opponents by surprise and creating uncertainty in their minds is a key approach to offensive warfare.
- be aggressive and direct from the front.
<Nt. Due to the battle prowess of House Von Rommel it has become customary for the Furst(in) / Imperial Kaiser(in)-Designate to be assigned to a military unit (for a designated time) within their Bundesland during their military years of service.>
Stuttgart Bundesland
Liege Lord: Erzherzog(in) Von Wolfe
Capital World: Trier (Trell)
Duchies: 10
Worlds: 34
Location: Extreme Zenith
Adjacent: Dauphine
House Von Wolfe
A prestigious and professional family whose professional duty is to safeguard das Reich by any legal means available to them.
Though their neighbours, House Von Kleber’s good natured teasing towards their appearance of being “too-serious / little-fun” (Snobs) whist the Von Wolfe complain that the Von Kleber’s are too egalitarian (‘Beatniks’) is a source of constant irritation between the two families.
Military:
The Wehrmacht of the Stuttgart Bundesland are noted for their special forces. Assigned the task of setting up the force’s headquarters in a secret facility – codenamed - Wolsschanze (“Wolf’s Sconce (Lair)”) these forces (Codename “Werewolf”) have organized into an elite force, to operate in clandestine operations secretly behind enemy lines.
<Nt. Due to the battle prowess of House Von Wolfe it has become customary for the Furst(in) / Imperial Kaiser(in)-Designate to be assigned to a military unit (for a designated time) within their Bundesland during their military years of service.>
Strassburg Bundesland
Liege Lord: Erzherzog(in) Von Kleber
Capital World: Musica (Adelaide)
Duchies: 10
Worlds: 37
Location: Extreme Zenith-Sinistral
Adjacent: Dauphine
House Von Kleber
Secret members of Pandora.
<Nt. Pandora – Members of a secret fraternity that oppose oppressive policies of the Das Reich Government, whilst maintaining deference to the higher authority of the state (the Keiser(in)) and the larger ‘positive’ framework within which their democracy operates. To this end the members of Pandora’s duty is to ensure freedom and justice.>
The Klebers, however, are known for their love of language, literature, music, art, folklore, cuisine and sport – to this end they consider their neighbours, the Von Wolfe, as mere dilatants requiring guidance / education – and as such the Wolfe / Kleber good natured rivalry continues …
In battle they are masters of the set piece strategy, choosing an advantageous battlefield … they are also known for their determination and valour …
Military:
Experts in Manoeuvre Warfare – a military strategy, which attempts to defeat the enemy by incapacitating their decision-making through shock and disruption.
Key requirement – up-to-date accurate intelligence on the disposition of key enemy command, support, and combat units … must be capable of redeploying key forces quickly and discreetly … either as an insurgency or counter-insurgency strategy.
Thus they aim for rapid, focused and unexpected actions …
<Nt. Due to the battle prowess of House Von Kleber it has also become customary for the Imperial Kaiser(in)-Designate to be assigned to a military unit (for a designated time) within their Bundesland during their military years of service.>
Prussia Bundesland (officially the Grand Duchy of …)
Liege Lord: Erzherzog(in) Von Saxe-Steiner
Capital World: Arzberg (Australia)
Dutchies: 15
Worlds: 64
Location: Extreme / Limitless Zenith-Sinistral
Adjacent: Dauphine
House Von Saxe-Steiner
Originally a “secundogeniture” dependent territory given to a younger daughter of the princely house of Von-Steiner and her descendants, creating a cadet branch in order to avoid a generational division – and at the same time a stake in the stability of Das Reich.
Since its establishment House Von Saxe-Steiner has consistently acquitted themselves in valour – and in Dauphine territory – creating many new Dutchies for Das Reich.
House Saxe-Steiner has rapidly begun to exercise their growing influence over other Houses – and at times mediation between Von Wolfe and Von Kleber.
The Von Saxe-Steiner’s military is synonymous with professionalism within the Reich Wehrmacht, and is equal to that of Keiser(in)’s.
Some see them as politically ambitious others staunch monarchists – the truth however is far from being determinable.
Military:
Through a combination of advanced educational reforms, ‘absolutely relentless’ drilling and manoeuvring, iron discipline and the finest commanders within Das Reich the Von Saxe-Steiner Reich Wehrmacht have been transformed into a relentless / veritable killing machine, unmatched in its manoeuvrability.
The Von Saxe-Steiner’s superiority in the art of war would mean nothing if they were inferior in the art of logistics, which fortunately they provided for in spades.
Their maxim “Armatures talk about strategy and tactics. Professionals talk about logistics and sustainability in warfare”
Ravensberg Bundesland
Liege Lord: Erzherzog(in) Von Ritter
Capital World: Leipzig (Sterling)
Dutchies: 11
Worlds: 36
Location: Extreme / Limitless Zenith-Sinistral
Adjacent: Dauphine and Empty Space
House Von Ritter
Military:
Specialize in Kriegsmarine (Navy) and their Panzerschiff (armoured (war) ship).
The training programs, under the House Von Ritter, includes tactical capability enhanced training …
A.
Basic training as a landsman. After a year, a landsman is usually rated as an ordinary seaman.
B.
Command staff courses on Panzerschiff (down to the rank of Leutnant zur See).
i. Understanding the origins of various space naval warship types, and their meanings within the field of modern naval warfare.
ii. Lectures on foreign warships and their weapons, with constant feedback based on intelligence from abroad.
iii. Lectures on the basic means of maintaining your position within the ship – combat manoeuvrability.
iv. The weaponry, and the organisation of protective measures to counter anti-warship attack.
v. Lectures on attack tactics, backed with experience from previous wars.
vi. Etc.
C.
Training of small groups of serving cadet officers, seamen, and engineering etc within the various ships.
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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Requiem
02/23/23 06:06 AM
1.158.193.188
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Wehrmacht
Since the fall of the Star League and the end of the Wars of Succession the Reich’s Oberkommando der Wehrmacht (Armed Forces High Command) was responsible for the expansion of Prussian Kriegsschulen (War Schools) – notable for their formal selection of its officers, by intelligence and proven merit rather than patronage or wealth, and by the exhaustive and rigorously structured training which its staff officers undertook. Its rise and development gave the Wehrmacht a decisive strategic advantage over their adversaries.
The General Staff also enjoys greater freedom from political control than its contemporaries, and this autonomy was enshrined in law on the unification of the Reich.
In a broader sense, the Oberkommando der Wehrmacht staff corps consisted of those officers who undertake training within the Kriegsschulen (War Schools) and are qualified to perform staff duties. Their exhaustive training was designed not only to remove the less motivated or less able candidates, but also to produce a body of professional military experts with common methods and outlook. General Staff – qualified officers alternated between line and staff duties but remained lifelong members of this special organization. It was now institutionally recognized that not only was command leadership important, but effective staff work was a significant key to success in both pre-war planning and in wartime operations.
Each Lyranisches Panzergrenadier Brigade are organized into the following military aspect – a term used for the several different kinds of military organization.
• 41st Panzergrenadier Brigade (Panzergrenadierbrigade 41)
o Staff and Signal Company 41st Panzergrenadier Brigade
o 113th Einherjar – Special Forces Detachment (Einherjar 113)
o 6th Reconnaissance Battalion (Aufklärungsbataillon 6)
o 401st Panzergrenadier Battalion (Panzergrenadierbataillon 401)
o 411th Panzergrenadier Battalion (Panzergrenadierbataillon 411)
o 413th Jäger Battalion (Jägerbataillon 413)
o 908th Panzergrenadier Battalion (Panzergrenadierbataillon 908)
o 803rd Panzer Engineer Battalion (Panzerpionierbataillon 803)
o 142nd Supply Battalion (Versorgungsbataillon 142)
o 52nd Luftwaffe Wing (Jagdgeschwader (JG) 52)
o 54th Luftwaffe Wing (Jagdgeschwader (JG) 54)
Einherjar Detachment – Special Forces Detachment - A multi-Unit formation that consists of Land Air BattleMechs, BattleMechs, combat vehicles, commando infantry, VTOLs, together with Luftwaffe aerospace fighters, that can be reduced / increased in size and scope as per individual mission requirements.
Valkyrie Detachment – (Float Detachment) – A Marines unit (landing force and / or boarding party), as per attached dropships, assigned to single Naval vessel.
Luftwaffe Detachment – On paper considered an individual multi-wing conventional fighter formation (each wing comprising four Jagdstaffel (plural Jagdstaffeln, abbreviated to Jasta) (fighter Staffel squadrons)) – In practice individual wings are assigned to RCT / Carrier Air Wing as per projected battle requirements.
Support Brigade – multiple semi-autonomous departments – responsibilities include …
- Medical
- Engineering
- Logistics
- Transport – Logistics, Recovery, Medical etc.
- Maintenance
- Commissary
- Weapons (maintenance) and Ammunition Storage etc.
High Command – Oberkommando des Heeres (OKH; Army High Command)
Under the Reich constitutional law vested in the Articles of Acceptance the command and governance of the Wehrmacht is vested in the Kaiser(in) and as such he/she holds the highest office in the military chain of command.
As such the Commander-in-Chief (Reichsmarschall) of the Reich Wehrmacht (RW) - refers to the supreme command authority, a military role vested in the Kaiser(in).
The authority to issue orders and give commands to military personnel is delegated by the Kaiser(in) to her/his commanders in the field, however she/ he does retain the right to issue orders personally.
Defense Services Secretary of the Kaiser(in)
The DSS is the primary channel of communication between the Kaiser(in), in her/his capacity as Commander-in-Chief and the officers and commanders of the Reich Wehrmacht (RW). This office provides the Kaiser(in) with the information and documentation related to defense affairs that she/he requires to perform her/his military functions and was created as part of the centralization of military
affairs into a single defense ministry. The DSS maintains a direct link with the officers and chief of staff of the Army, Navy, and Air (space) Force within the Ministry of Defense.
Ministry of Defense - Military Department - Bundeswehr
The Ministry of Defense is the central command and control instrument for the Kaiser(in) in exercising her/his function as commander-in-chief of the armed forces and as head of defense administration.
Responsible for providing the military forces needed to deter war and protect the security of the Reich and their civil administration and procurement authorities.
Primary Regional Commands for Reich Wehrmacht (RW) – Oberbefehlshaber - OB : < Military District – Operational Area > Commander in Chief < Rank, Name >
As of 2750, the Reich was divided into Military Districts which maintained multiple smaller Operational Areas, each with their own assigned forces and military commander as the primary lines of defense for the Reich, and included those worlds within strategic strike range of any of the major powers…
• The Terran Orthodox Papal State (ComStar) (Terran Hegemony);
• Ryuujin no Teikoku (Empire of the Dragon King) (Draconis Combine);
• Tintagel Union (Free Worlds League);
• Baihu zhi jing (Realm of the White Tiger) (Capellan Confederation);
• The United Confederation of Suns (Federated Suns); and
• Dauphine’, Constitutional Republic of (Rim Worlds Republic).
Operational Areas are named after the location of the commanding officer’s headquarters. Their commanders receive the non-hereditary title of Markgraf allowing them to act in the capacity of military commander to protect the people and worlds in their area from invaders, and at the same time protect the Reich.
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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Requiem
02/23/23 06:08 AM
1.158.193.188
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Defence Logistics Agency
A system designed to ensure it meets with wartime demands, minimising supply risks and ensuring successful execution of combat operations.
Combat support agencies – make decisions about the purchase and positioning of their logistics in an effective manner (not a cost effective – just in time – efficiency sense delivered at minimal cost basis) within each operational area.
In the event of periods of heightened operational requirements. Readiness production, stockpiling and the ultimate distribution system requires an assurance of nil shortfalls. Where an automated inventory algorithm is used to make decisions – all suppliers are required to demonstrate that they ‘are able to’ rapidly ramp up production to meet wartime demand.
Research and Development Agency
Responsible for the development of all emerging military technologies. Who collaborates with academia, industry, and government partners to formulate and execute research and development projects to expand the frontiers of technology and science (often beyond the militaries immediate requirements).
Professional Military Education System
Non-commissioned Officer Academy
– Mission – An accelerated three-month course that provides Officer Aspirant / Cadet Ranks, who can manage and lead units, to advance into the Offiziere – Junior Officer Ranks.
Command-Military Bachelor’s Degree
– Optional Courses – Criminal Justice, Cyber-Operations, Diplomacy and Political Science, Economics, Engineering (all fields), Healthcare, Information Systems, Journalism, Logistics (Business Administration), Military Technology (Research and Development), Philosophy, Psychology, Strategic Intelligence, Theology (etc.)
– Mission – Military Education and training to develop and prepare Junior Officers for the national security environment. Its graduates are prepared for complex Junior positions through the study of military strategy, theatre strategy and plans, and military support to those strategies within the context of national security policies and decision-making.
Command Staff College (CSC)
– Mission – A ten-month program for Stabsoffiziere – Senior Officer Ranks – from all military branches, providing education and training to develop critical thinkers, innovative problem solvers, and ethical leaders to serve as commanders and staff officers in individual units and multi-unit military organizational combat teams (emphasizes a multiservice approach).
Senior Leader Development College (SLDC)
– Mission – A ten-month program for General & Flag Officer Ranks – from all military branches, providing education and training to develop skills necessary for senior leaders within all branches.
Other Programs (non-inclusive)
Basic Military Training (BMT)
– Mission – A four-month initial training preparation towards becoming a soldier.
Career Specialised Training (CST)
– Mission – Specialized training requiring military specific skills (duration varies with education requirements).
Enlisted Professional Military Education – Command Preparation
– Mission – Provide enlisted professionals with progressive educational opportunities to assist with advancement in rank / duties. Includes …
Basic Leader – month long non-commissioned leadership course specializing in promotion to (Corporal / Petty Officer) – Oberstabsgefreiter.
Advanced Leader – three month long non-commissioned leadership course specializing in promotion to H/L – Unteroffizier / Stabsunteroffizier – K – Maat / Obermaat (Sergeant / Staff Sergeant / Petty Officer)
Senior Leader – two month long non-commissioned leadership course specializing in promotion to
(Master Sergeant / Chief Petty Officer / Senior Chief Petty Officer) – H/L – Hauptfeldwebel, Stabsfeldwebel – K – Hauptbootsmann, Stabsbootsman.
Advanced Leader – month long non-commissioned leadership course specializing in promotion to (Senior Master Sergeant / Master Chief Petty Officer) – H/L – Oberstabsfeldwebel – K – Oberstabsbootsmann.
Advanced Warfighting (AW)
– Mission – Develop future commanders to solve, employ, design and execute strategic / tactical / logistical skills for Offiziere – Junior Officer Ranks.
School of Void-Land Task Force Logistics (VLTFL)
– Mission – Provide logistics education for all branches, and to manage the logistics education programs in order to increase the combat effectiveness of all operating Corps / Forces, Reserve Forces, Supporting, Forces, and Headquarters.
Einherjar (Ranger) College
– Mission – A six-month high-intensity / advanced training program, for all military branches, to develop military personnel’s unconventional mission skills whilst engaging the enemy in close combat and direct fire battles. Missions includes direct-action operations, raids, personnel and special equipment recovery, counter terrorism, hostage rescue, direct action, and special reconnaissance in addition to conventional or special operations.
Void-borne (Jump) College
– Mission – A three-month training program to prepare Battle-Mech pilots for void-paratrooper (military void jump) certification.
Strike L.A.M. Fighter Tactics College
– Mission – A three-month training program teaching advanced L.A.M. strike tactics and techniques for Einherjar L.A.M. pilots to enhance combat performance in the air and on the ground, whist engaging primary targets / reconnaissance missions.
Pathfinder College
– Mission – A one-month navigation program to establish and operate a landing zone for all vehicles, conduct logistics offloading operations, and provide air traffic control and navigation assistance within an operational site control zone.
Continuing Field Training Exercises
Usually practice “mini-battles” which provide fairly realistic scenarios and situations based on actual situations and within different environments a unit might face whilst deployed.
Other Military Occupation Specialist Schools
Airborne Campus – Paratrooper / Jumpmaster.
Aviation Campus – Helicopter / Fixed Wing aircraft etc – all aviation requirements.
Chaplain Campus – Spiritual Support Requirements during missions and everyday activities.
Defence Information Campus – Professional organisational communications – radio, audio-visual, editing publications, public affairs, propaganda (culturally specific in any language etc).
Education Campus – Provides all military education requirements.
Medical Campus – Entire range of military medical professions.
Music Campus – Band performances including basic military band marching techniques and movements.
Sapper Campus – A variety of combat engineering duties. E.g. bridge-building, laying or clearing minefields, demolitions, building field defences / buildings / roads / airfield construction and repair.
Military Bundeswehr – Sub-agencies
Adjutant General
Army Department
Navy Department
Aerospace Force Department
Signals Defense
Defense Acquisition
Defense Criminal Investigative Service
Defense Military Intelligence / Psychological Operations
National Security Agency
Defense Information Systems
Defense Investigative-Intelligence Service
Defense Logistics
Defense Mapping and Stellar Cartography
Defense Special Weapons and Services
Defense Research and Development
Engineering
Defense Services Education and University
Defense Health and Welfare
House Forces Liaison Department.
Defense Mercenary Relations (Liaison Branch)
Commonwealth Heer (Army)
The Land based combat arm of the Lyran military encompassing all regular and reserve ground forces.
The Heer is composed of a numerous corps, sub-commands, mercenaries and reserve units: Sub-agencies include …
Combat Arms Branches
• BattleMech – all BattleMech vehicles.
• Armored – all combat vehicles.
• VTOL and Aviation – all VTOL and Aviation combat and non-combat vehicles.
• Infantry – all regular infantries.
• Special Forces – all special forces infantries.
• Air Defense – air defense vehicles and Radar.
• Field Artillery – all artillery.
• Combat Engineers.
BattleMech – Ground units of the LCAF were classified and equipped depending upon their role.
Uhlans
A main assault Regiment – a single assault battalion with the remaining two battalions consists of heavy-to-assault.
Grenadiers
Composed of heavy-to-assault – primary purpose, engages well equipped enemies.
Fusiliers
The core of most Corps – consisting of medium-to-heavy.
Dragoons (Cavalry)
Composed of Medium – primary purpose rapid advance and break through formations.
Hussars
Composed of light-to-medium – primary purpose rapid support (majority – missile support).
Lancers
Composed of light-to-medium – rapid penetration (majority – Laser).
Light Horse
Composed of light – primary reconnaissance.
Armored – Ground units of the LCAF were classified and equipped depending upon their role.
Tank Classifications
JagdCheetah – Reconnaissance Vehicles
JagdLeopard – Cavalry Vehicles
JagdJaguar – Infantry APC Vehicles
JagdPanther ¬– Infantry Support Vehicles
JagdPanzer – Support Combat Vehicles
JagdTiger – Main Combat Vehicles
Specialist – eg. Engineers – Armored recovery vehicles, Armored Vehicle Launched Bridge etc
Artillery – Ground units of the LCAF were classified and equipped depending upon their role.
Artillery Classifications
SRM Artillery
LRM Artillery
Anti-Aircraft Guns
Self-propelled Artillery
Howitzer Artillery
Siege Artillery
VTOL – Ground units of the LCAF were classified and equipped depending upon their role.
VTOL Classifications
Alruna Class – Multi-role Combat – eg Apache
Eir Class – Utility – eg Black Hawk (Combat & MASH)
Geiravor Class – Multi-mission Tiltrotor – eg. Osprey
Gondul Class – Heavy lift –eg Chinook
Herja Class – Combat Conventional Fighter –eg Harrier
Infantry – Ground units of the LCAF were classified and equipped depending upon their role.
Infantry Classifications
Reconnaissance
Commando
Ranger
Infantry
Heavy Infantry
Jump Infantry
Forest Infantry
Desert Infantry
Alpine Infantry
Mechanized Infantry
Motorized Infantry
Multi-purpose canine (MPC)
Mounted Infantry
Military Police (MP)
Urban Security
Marines
Engineers – Demolition etc.
Commonwealth Luftwaffe (Aerospace and Conventional)
The aerospace and conventional combat arm of the Lyran military encompassing …
Combat Arms
• Attack – Close air support and ground attack.
• Bomber – Long range strike missions.
• Special Electronic – Early Warning and Control Information Environment – electronic warfare and jamming, psychological operations and communications, airborne command post, ground targeting radar, range control, communications relay ….
• Fighter – small, fast and manoeuvrable craft used for aerospace-to-aerospace combat (aerospace superiority) + dual-role as fighter-bombers.
• Reconnaissance – planetary reconnaissance – monitoring enemy activity …
• Observation – close reconnaissance – report tactical information concerning composition and disposition of forces.
Combat Support
• Transport – Deliver military equipment and infantry.
• Search and Rescue – in or out of combat operations.
• Multi-mission – special support for ‘global’ special operations – infiltration, exfiltration, resupply ….
• Trainer – used to train pilots, combat systems, aircrew personnel …
• Utility – conventional craft used for what is required at the time …
• VIP Staff Transport – craft used for the transportation of VIPs.
Special Services
• Planetary Defense – systems utilized for planetary defense against an approaching enemy fleet …
Luftwaffe units are assigned to a specific combat team, naval vessel, or act within their own specialist units as required.
Commonwealth Military – Kampfdienste (Combat Services)
The other branches of the Lyran military encompassing …
Combat Support Branches
• Signals – Responsible for reliability of battlefield communication.
• Intelligence – Responsible for all Intelligence.
• Mapping – Topography and Stellar Cartography services.
• Security – Responsible for security, Military Police, Commissars.
Combat Service Support
• Base Establishment – facilities on land, or in space.
• Adjutant General’s – serve at an organizational level to plan, develop, and operate the personnel management support systems – life cycle functions – personnel requisition, reassignment, evaluation, promotion, awards and decorations, reenlistment, casualty reporting, strength accounting, replacement operations, and Mercenary Relations.
• Finance – Responsible for Unit Finance
• Ordinance - munitions.
• Quartermaster - Supply Service / Transport Command – Overseas organization and assignment of supplies
• Transportation Service / Transport Command – oversees the organization and assignment of Jump-Ships and Drop-Ships assigned to ground forces.
Special Services
• Criminal Investigation, Judge Advocate General.
• Medical – Responsible for Battlefield triage – and after battle care – veterinary, dental, nursing, etc …
• Education – Responsible for education requirements.
• Chaplain – All recognized religions.
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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Requiem
02/23/23 06:08 AM
1.158.193.188
|
Commonwealth Kriegsmarine (Navy)
The Space based combat arm of the Lyran military encompassing all fleet and merchantman forces.
Prior to the SLDF Amaris Coup d’état Campaign secret construction facilities were maintained throughout the Lyran Commonwealth as repair facilities – the true scope of Kriegsmarine remains a national security issue.
Combat Arms Branches
• Warships – all warships.
• Jump-ships – all merchantman jump-ships.
• Drop-ships – all combat and merchantman drop-ships.
• Space-stations – all military space stations.
• VIP Staff Transport – Dropships used for the transportation of VIPs.
• Aviation – all fighter and reconnaissance aerospace.
• Marines – all regular combat marine infantry.
• Special Forces – all Naval special forces.
• Combat Engineers.
Navy – Squadron / Fleet
Line
Primary offensive formation – Carrier and two battleships protected by multiple cruisers and frigates
Pursuit
Rapid formation – primarily fast jeep-carriers, battlecruisers, and cruisers.
Escort
Achieve space superiority whilst attached to army transport / logistics fleets - primarily frigates and destroyers
Reconnaissance
Intelligence gathering - primarily frigates and destroyers (with the occasional cruiser) equipped with the most advanced sensory equipment and reconnaissance aerospace assets.
Transport
Dedicated to mass transport – logistics and ground forces.
Exploration / Survey
Discovering new ship routes / worlds – large cruiser equipped with multiple dropships, advanced sensory equipment, and reconnaissance aerospace assets - designed to undertake missions lasting months or years if necessary.
Doctrine
The LCAF operational doctrine focuses on achieving high combat performance. It emphasizes adaptability, flexibility and decentralized decision making.
Officers and NCOs were selected based on character and trained towards decisive combat leadership. Positive combat performance and efficiency is desired (A high combat efficiency score).
Tactics
The military strength of the LCAF is managed through mission-based tactics (Fuhren mit Auftrag) (“leading by mission”), and an almost proverbial discipline.
Where the emphasis is on the outcome of a mission rather than the specific means of achieving it
Once an operation begins, whether offensive or defensive, speed in response to changing circumstances is considered more important than careful planning and coordination of new plans.
The LCAF military is seen as a high-tech army since new technologies that were introduced influences its development of tactical doctrine.
Organization
Front-line Regular Forces
Regional Reserve – Assigned to a given defensive zone (or Verteidigungzone) of several worlds, a Regional Reserve is under the direct command of the provincial or theatre commander. Regional Reserves mimic the structure of an Regimental Combat Team. They also, generally, have their own Dropships.
Planetary Reserve – generally garrison forces, are almost conventional armor, VTOL, fighters, infantry and artillery regiments. Though influential and wealthy planets may supplement these with ‘Mech forces.
All reserve forces are required to answer to the LCAF.
Noble families – Are allowed to maintain their own private forces and are subject to strict control by the House Forces Liaison Department.
Military Academy Training Units – Tied to a specific military academy, these units are designed to provide their Corps of Cadets battlefield experience before transferring to a front-line unit. Equipment for these units is procured through the Academy.
Mercenary Forces – Hired to supplement existing forces as and when required. Liaison will be required to assist in integrating the unit into the LCAF and to provide some level of control.
Ranks
The Brandenberg Edicts of 2413 established the rank system for the LCAF, issued by Archon Katherine Steiner, they were adapted from those used within the 20th Century (with a few changes).
Mannschaften (Personnel) Military Ranks – Wehrmacht (defense power) – primary branches are:
• Heer (Army) (H)
• Kriegsmarine (Navy) (K)
• Luftwaffe (Aerospace) (L)
Enlisted Ranks
Recruit – H – Soldaten – K – Matrose – L – Flieger
Private / Seaman Apprentice – Gefreiter
Private / Seaman – Obergefreiter
Private / Seaman – Huptgefreiter
Lance Corporal / Petty Officer – Stabsgefreiter
Corporal / Petty Officer – Oberstabsgefreiter
Non-Commissioned Ranks
Sergeant / Petty Officer – H/L – Unteroffizier – K – Maat
Sergeant / Petty Officer – H/L – Stabsunteroffizier – K – Obermaat
Staff Sergeant / Petty Officer – H/L – Feldwebel – K – Bootsmann
Staff Sergeant / Petty Officer – H/L– Oberfeldwebel – K – Oberbootsmann
Master Sergeant / Chief Petty Officer – H/L – Hauptfeldwebel – K – Hauptbootsmann
Master Sergeant / Senior Chief Petty Officer – H/L – Stabsfeldwebel – K – Stabsbootsman
Senior Master Sergeant / Master Chief Petty Officer – H/L – Oberstabsfeldwebel – K – Oberstabsbootsmann
Officer Aspirant / Cadet Ranks
OC – Sergeant / Petty Officer – H/L – Fahnenjunker – K – Seekadett
OC – Staff Sergeant / Petty Officer – H/L – Fahnrich – K – Fahnrich zur See
OC – Master Sergeant / Senior Chief Petty Officer – H/L – Oberfahnrich – K – Oberfahnrich zur See
Offiziere – Junior Officer Ranks
Second Lieutenant / Ensign – H/L – Leutnant – K – Leutnant zur See
First Lieutenant / Lieutenant JG – H/L – Oberleutnant – K – Oberleutnant zur See
Captain / Lieutenant – H/L – Hauptmann – K – Kapitanleutnant
Stabsoffiziere – Senior Officer Ranks
Major / Lieutenant Commander / Squadron Leader – H/L – Kommandant – K – Korvettenkapitan
Lieutenant Colonel / Commander / Wing Commander – H/L – Oberstleutnant – K – Fragattenkapitan
Colonel / Captain / Group Captain – H/L – Oberst – K – Kapitan zur See
General & Flag Officer Ranks
Brigadier / Commodore / Air Commodore – H – Standarten-Fuhrer – K – Flottillenadmiral
– L – Luftkommodore
Lieutenant General / Rear Admiral / Air Vice Marshal – H – Generalleutnant – K – Konteradmiral
– L – Flugdienstleiter
Major General / Vice Admiral / Air Marshal – H – Gruppenfuhrer – K – Vizeadmiral – L – Fluglotse
General / Admiral / Marshal – H – Obergruppenfuhrer – K – Admiral – L – Marschall
Field Marshall / Fleet Admiral / Marshal Air Force – H – Feldmarschall – K – Flottenadmiral
– L – Marschall Luftwaffe
General of the Armies –Kaiser(in) Reichsmarschall
Military Awards
The Grand Cross (GC) – Valour in combat beyond the call of duty (All Ranks Eligible).
Knight’s Cross (KC) – Order of chivalry, especially courage, honour, loyalty (Officers Eligible).
Distinguished Service Order (DSO) – Meritorious or distinguished service. Specifically for highly successful command and leadership during active operations (All Ranks Eligible).
Order of the Lyran Crusaders (OLC) – Gallantry in combat (Officers Eligible).
Member of the Order of the Lyran Crusaders (MOLC) – Gallantry in combat (Ratings Eligible).
The higher degrees of the Military Orders – can again be recognized in military valour or successful leadership – and are divided into two additional degrees.
Order of the Red Eagle and …
Order of the Black Eagle
Distinguished Service Medal (DSM) – In recognition of a distinguished act or acts of exemplary service during active operations against the enemy (All Ranks Eligible).
Military Cross (MC) – In recognition of an act or acts or of exemplary gallantry during active operations against the enemy (All Ranks Eligible).
Was divided into two classes and is a progressive award, with second class having to be earned before the first class and so on for the higher degrees.
Military Cross 1st Class (abbreviated MC I)
Military Cross 2nd Class (abbreviated MC II)
The higher degrees of the Military Cross – can again be recognized in military valour or successful leadership – and are divided into three additional degrees.
Cross with Oak Leaves.
Cross with Oak Leaves and Swords.
Cross with Oak Leaves, Swords and Diamonds.
Sabre Combat Medal – Awarded to those who engage in combat for the first time – Whilst assigned to a military unit, for performing their duties, while personally present, and under enemy fire (All Ranks Eligible).
Red Heart Medal – Awarded in the name of Kaiser(in) to those wounded or killed whilst serving in a military action (All Ranks Eligible).
Campaign Medal – Awarded to a member of an armed force who served in a designated military operation, in the shape of a knight’s shield (All Ranks Eligible).
Insignia attached to an appropriate campaign medal:
- Oak Leaf - Mentioned in Dispatches;
- Crossed Swords - Commendation for Brave Conduct;
- Metal Bar – Colour denotes additional award
Green - Military Cross (MC)
Orange - Distinguished Service Medal (DSM)
Indigo - Member of the Order of the Lyran Crusaders (MOLC)
Violet - Order of the Lyran Crusaders (MOLC)
Blue - Distinguished Service Order (DSO)
Red - Knight’s Cross (KC)
Black - The Grand Cross (GC)
Military TO&E – basic vehicles available.
Battle-Mechs
Wasp
Stinger
Valkyrie
Phoenix Hawk
Rifleman
Crusader
Archer
Warhammer
LAMs
Wasp LAM
Stinger LAM
Phoenix Hawk LAM
Aerospace Fighters
Stingray
Lucifer
Stuka
Conventional Fighters
Guardian
Vehicles
Support
Swift Wind Scout Car
Packrat LRPV – Reconnaissance – Ambulance
Skulker Wheeled Scout Tank
Mobile Headquarters
Coolant Vehicle
Ordinance Transport
Mobile Battle-Mech Repair Gantry
Mobile Army Surgical Hospital
Etc.
Wheeled
APC
Tracked
APC
Galleon Light Tank
Patton Tank
Drone
Boomerang Spotter Drone
VTOL
Ferret Light Scout
Warrior H-7
Artillery
Marksman
Mobile Long Tom
Warships
Bug-eye – Reconnaissance
Aviso – Dispatch Ship
Others as required per game.
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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