ghostrider
08/23/21 12:56 AM
45.51.181.83
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Distance is again the factor. To send a captured soldier across a world is not the same and communicating to a world light years away. Unless you are going to send a ship with them, there is no real way to talk to each other. The Comstar blackout would be seen as the HPGs being taken. To suggest they were still in contact would be suspicious at best, accused of helping the clans at worse. And with Comstar being armed, it is unlikely that they would not retake such a facility. They were not as tied down in garrisons to move troops around to do so. The warships were still a secret at this time, so they would not be a deciding factor in this.
And for repeated trips to set one up, the house lords would demand having their own reps aboard as well. If nothing else, to see if their intel people had anything. They would not say this of course.
Time is the key. The Dragoons didn't say anything when the first wave of nukes would be going off. Comstar might advise against it, but couldn't do more without revealing they were already in contact with the invaders. As a side note, the notion they were pirates that found a large SL cache, which may well have been RWR units, would not be able to maintain the warships for long without a steady supply of parts and resources. So this may be why the IS wasn't prioritizing the destruction of those vessels.
For the IS, they would sicken of a total warfare scenario. The clans are a different story. They might be sickened at the waste of resources more then removing the locals of their lives by any means. At least on the Crusader side. The wardens might try to do something, but the fact the war was happening, says they lost the last time they tried to stop it. The wardens would be more likely to claim worlds and challenge the others, but even this might not last. A few nukes may well cause them to realize it was a lost cause. Wether they pull out or respond like the Crusaders would is the question.
Fighting Vehicles did not enter the game until Citytech. TRO 3025 wasn't even out when the boxed game was on the shelf for the first time. Armored infantry may have been as a hold over from Battledriods was the initial game. I don't know that far back. But to have mechs supposed to be so rare, vehicles would have to fill up the spots to actually garrison things along with infantry. The reason for RCTS come down to the fact that mechs don't hold things like cities very well. They don't hold assets very well when they only have a single mech on duty. So they had to add in something that could. Otherwise leaving it unguarded, as that means anyone walking in to do what they want.
The agreement to attack the IS was based on warrior against warrior. Not having entire warship compliments wiped out by nukes and such. Once the first wave hit, the messages sent back to the home worlds would have changed the entire format of the invasion. And this was originally stated that if the clans were set up like the IS. NO sibko bs. No simple bids of forces. Just use everything you can, and have massive reserves that are ready to go, just like the succession wars or the Amaris conflict.
Once the initial nuke fest happened, the clans would have the advantage as I don't know of any shipyards in the 3000 era were built after the SL was around. So the clans could take out those yards, while the IS had no idea where the clans were at. Eventually, only the clans would have jump vessels. It might take a century or more, but this is the most likely result. Comstar being the odd one out. Their choice of joining the clans or the IS being what determines their fate.
Focht may well have been taken out before it got that far. If he seemed to resist her concept, she may well have removed him. It was only after operation Scorpion that he killed her. He did nothing when she was planning on using the clans to take out the IS houses.
One suggestion to the alt, would be design the dropship pocket warships during the SL era and run with it from there. This should remove the issue of them not being around later on. It seems misplaced that this wasn't done in canon. I know TPTB didn't want this, but it is a logical step in naval design. Dropships are cheaper to use and lose then even the smallest warship. You can spread out a fleet of them and cover more area, such as a single Monolith dropping them off in system.
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Requiem
08/23/21 06:44 AM
124.184.134.200
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Yes the ComStar blackout would be seen as the HPG s have been taken – taken however does not mean that they are inoperable.
In times of emergency you look around for ways to communicate – and on hand the only people who can communicate with the Inner Sphere (as far as the Clans know) is their captured ComStar personnel. As only ComStar has access to all the Great Houses – thus making them the only group who can deliver their message.
Or this could even be done in reverse – the Great Houses (after discussing the issue with Wolf’s Dragoons) send multiple messages into Clan Space – thus putting the ball in the Clan’s court.
There really is nothing suspicious about this.
Also warships cannot be secret at this stage as it is post Turtle Bay and the DC have nuked this ship in retaliation – hence the request for a summit to discuss the Rule of War going forward, before a 1st Succession War Nuclear War eventuates.
Both sides would need to determine a neutral place in which to hammer out the accords.
Yes I agree the Dragoons didn’t say anything – however, this is Canon’s black hole of a mistake.
In all reality I believe Rhonda Snord would have informed on the Dragoons – forcing them to now communicate the truth. As she is by far the most pro Inner Sphere and Elvis supporter – “Elvis was an artist, but that didn’t stop him from serving his country in time of war. That’s why he’s the king, and you’re a shmuck! Azrael” (Quote from the film Dogma)
So what will happen ultimately is a trial of grievance between the crusaders and the wardens to determine the fate of the Inner Sphere ….
BattleForce – first published 1986 – Back cover
As commander of a mixed-force regiment, your unit includes a number of BattleMechs, the most awesome weapon ever placed on a battlefield. You've also got every kind of tank, including tracked, wheeled and hovercraft. AeroSpace Fighters and DropShips make up your air support. Then, too, there are the troopers who will be the unsung heroes of your infantry.
CityTech – first published 1986 – Back cover
The city also provides cover for your many enemies. Infantrymen fire at you from windows, while tanks and armored vehicles snipe at you from the alleys and streets.
TRO 3025 – first published 1986
They all came out in 1986 …
Economics and technology are the reasons why there are more vehicles – decreasing ability to manufacture Mechs (making them expensive) whilst at the same time vehicles are cheap and can me manufactured in mass quantities.
Even during the Star League era there were more vehicle regiments than mech regiments within the SLDF.
Sorry but no the clans will not respond to the IS’s use of a nuke with a mass attack – The attacking force won the right to be there and fight for the right to become Il-Clan – the Home Clans lost and are thus relegated to remain on the Home Worlds.
They can only be activated by the Il-Khan …. And for an il-Khan to allow this would mean that he/she has lost control of the situation, there is absolutely no way any il-Khan will recognise a personal failure of this magnitude!
Politically if an il-khan did so it would also be the death knell for that Khan’s clan – they would be seen as incompetent of the highest order – better to initiate a trial of annihilation than risk being contaminated by such a failure!
Suck is the way of the Mongol – In victory strength and prosperity – in defeat destruction at the hands of your fellow Mongol warriors hands!
Also even if all the clans did attack – yes the sibko bs is still there the underlying problem remains!
Also the succession wars and the Amaris conflict involved one united SLDF – here we have multiple Clan cells each with their own political agenda they would want to push.
Question – how many of the Home Clans would like to see those in the IS fail ? my bet nearly all of them – thus how many would be looking long term and considering the possibilities that if these clans can be severely weakened y the IS – they can then either destroy or absorb then via the trial system and then the Home clans can go in for an second time, and this time do it the right way!
Remember this is the POLITICAL age within the Clans I would not put it past some of the clans to consider this the best option rather than attacking the Inner Sphere – they could just as easily say its your problem and has nothing to with us! Just so they can kill off their political Clan enemies or absorb them.
Focht – reminds me of many of the German Generals prior to Valkyrie – plotting in the wings.
As for the dropship pocket warships – Yes I absolutely agree with you - they should have been designed and manufactured as Warships became impossible / difficult to manufacture as a replacement for warships. Thus during the succession wars – as they were already being used as bombers annihilating entire worlds with nukes and chemical / biological weapons so taking them one step further is not beyond the bounds of reality.
They would make excellent guards against a planetary invasion fleet.
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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ghostrider
08/23/21 12:30 PM
45.51.181.83
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Sorry, I forgot to state Comstars warships were secret at this point.
The pocket warships would be far more effective with planetary blockades, as warships are too expensive to just sit around a world while fights go on elsewhere. A single warship, as powerful at it is, will not make an effective blockade force. Ships will launch in numbers and scatter. With the pocket warships, they can at least cover more ground and take down dropships with their capital weapons. It is also a little easier getting a dropship near a world without alerting the defenders.
The basis of the clans being set up like the IS mean no sibko. No real divisions like separate clans. Yes, they will have political divisions in them, just like the IS, but they would not be hampered by the low numbers issue. They would also be ready to send in more forces at a moment's notice. This would include bringing in even more clans and doing the full scale scorched earth policy with the IS. I would also think they would have found new ways of taking out people without destroying structures. Hate to say it be Bio and chemical weapons would be used. I hate it, but that is the logical progress along these lines. With this, the clans would be more likely to have some sort of defense against radiation beyond the normal suits. As the mechs cockpit, and I would think a sealed Elemental suit, should be immune to radiation, they would not be so worried about it. Clean up would be something they should be able to do, especially since terraforming should still be something they can do. This would extend to cleaning up the bio and chemicals used as well. If it takes a few years, well they are not so worried.
It the total war game, the side that sickens first would probably surrender. Given the moral outlook of the clans, it would be the IS. I would think individual worlds would do so first, but in the end the leaders would realize it is just a matter of time.
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Requiem
08/23/21 04:55 PM
124.184.134.200
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The problem with ‘drop-ship pocket warships’ when it comes to battle with a warship is twofold: -
1. drop-ship size now makes it a legitimate target for warships main batteries – with reduced armour.
2. and two its weapons package is severely limited to that of a warship’s main batteries – thus the warship has the potential ability to stand-off and engage them at distance.
As stated above politics will get in the way of any invasion by every clan and if it was to occur, we are now right back to the same issue of a 1st Succession Nuclear War. And yes, the IS will initiate a program to hunt for the Clan Home-Worlds.
Limited resistance to radiation – space suits for example? How about all their vehicles – massive decontamination will now be required – how long will that last in the rad zones. However, nothing will stop the initial explosion – massive energy / heat wave – the same as being thrown into the sun!
As for cleaning a world post nuclear war – simple evacuate the planet and scratch it off the map for the next couple thousand years as terraforming cannot clean up a world post nuclear war.
Sorry to say but once this type of war commences it will only finish with the genocide of one side or the other – there will be no middle ground. Thus, the BattleTech story will devolve quickly into a horror story of involving multiple atrocities committed by both sides – who both believe they are in the right. This is not the path that I would consider as a worthwhile game, as it would now make the Jihad look rational by comparison. Also, if the Clans did go down such a path this is undeniable proof that they are no longer the descendants of the SLDF they are now undeniably the descendants of Amaris.
So yes, this is a possible direction the war could take – but why? Every world where this war touched would now be like a periphery Mad Max type World of anarchy with little to no law and high death count due to sickness and everything being poisoned – is this really the type of game anyone would want?
Not for me thank you. I like a little sanity in the game.
So again, either the IS has naval vessels when the clans come in or limited nuclear strike followed by a summit to hammer out the rules of war and the Home Clans stay out of the IS.
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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ghostrider
08/23/21 05:20 PM
45.51.181.83
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The naval weapon equipped dropships was not so much to attack warships, though they would if needed, but to guard areas against dropships that are unauthorized in the area. Normal weapons aren't that scary to a dropship captain. Put on a weapon that can out range and do more damage then everything on the other dropship, and things change. Even scarier is when the dropship is a fighter carrier as well. Now you have naval weapons and fighters to deal with.
Also, having the pocket warships would allow some warships to actually have a chance against others. The added firepower and extra targets would help even or increase the odds of success.
In the extreme cases, the dropships would engage a warship without the assistance of other warships.
As this is a future sci fi game, why couldn't nuclear waste be cleaned up after shots were fired? It is possible to remove bio matter as well as chemical matter, what makes nuclear matter impossible? It is possible in the SL tech era to create drones that can seek out actual radioactive material on the surface and in the air, and remove it. That will dramatically reduce the radiation in the air. Scrubbing the air to remove radiation itself should be something that can be done. It will not be done in a few hours. It may take tens of years. But much shorter then thousands.
As a nuclear war of this sort may not reduce the entire world to a glowing ember, but that depends on where the military is hiding at. If they are in the cities when using such weapons, then you will have to destroy the cities. Being an invader, you do have the option of mass drivers to take out planets without the nuclear fall out. It would even help if the asteroids used were things that could be mined once the asteroid is planetside.
Also, if the Clans did go down such a path this is undeniable proof that they are no longer the descendants of the SLDF they are now undeniably the descendants of Amaris.
I love this one. The SL did this very thing in the periphery strikes as well as hitting Amaris. Tactical/strategic strikes can be used without destroying the whole world. Granted, clan thinking might just wipe it all out.
Take a step backward now. Who was the first to start using nukes like candy? Not the clans, but the IS. So the IS would be shown as taking up Amaris's concepts of war. That would cause the clans to respond to remove such a taint from paradise.
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Karagin
08/23/21 05:42 PM
70.118.172.64
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So we are removing the Exodus Civil War from the whole thing?
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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ghostrider
08/24/21 02:14 AM
45.51.181.83
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As stated before, it would be far easier to just dump canon for the alt. So much would have to change to fit the narrative, that there is no plausible way the future could be the same. If the statement of getting away from canon is true, then a lot of things would not be reliant on specific events.
The nukes used in WWII could have been defective, making the nuclear bomb get pushed back from being deployed. It could still lead to nuclear energy, but the concept of the bomb might well be lessened. It would be fixed for certain, but leave a bad taste in the mouths of warmongers. Bio and chemical could be shelved with a few mistakes made. This would definitely change the story of the game, so there is no way it could be close to canon. The terran alliance used chemical weapons on protesters before the main exodus from earth.
There is no way Requiem would remove the nukes from the clan history, otherwise his favorite clan, the Wolverines, would never have been chased out. No nuke, no depository destruction.
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Requiem
08/24/21 05:08 AM
124.184.134.200
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The naval weapon equipped dropships was not so much to attack warships
Correct, even though they have been given the nom de plume of ‘pocket warship class’ this is in fact a complete misnomer – they are in fact no more than patrol torpedo boat (PT boat) class. The main problem with many of them within Canon is their speed – for PTs to be effective they MUST be very fast.
Which again shows a lack of military knowledge.
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why couldn't nuclear waste be cleaned up after shots were fired?
First, Half-year life of the explosive.
Depends upon the material used to manufacture the warhead.
https://www.atomicarchive.com/resources/documents/effects/wenw/chapter-2.html
Second, once it is within all aspects of the food chain how do you fix this?
Third, cost – who is going to pay for a dead world to be brought back to life?
Fourth, opportunity cost – rather than bringing a dead world back to life can we consider what we could use this money and resources for other than bringing a dead world back to life? Hospitals, Schools, …. Weapon systems for the next war ….
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mass drivers
Er … what happened to the dinosaurs when hit? Mass extinction event due to the destruction of the ecosystem (winter due to particles in the upper atmosphere caused by the explosion).
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Who was the first to start using nukes like candy?
Now take a step back, who was the first to start using orbital bombardment and who threatened to used an orbital bombardment for the second time?
Thus leaving all IS Great House Leaders with the only option available as they did not have any other weapon system to contend with a Warship – the nuclear option.
TPTB have painted the IS Great Houses into a corner their one and only response for an orbital bombardment is a nuclear strike!
So again who is using the only weapon and the only choice war by any means necessary to that they can remain free of a despot government ? sounds more like canon’s Kerensky and not Amaris !
If the clans then invaded en mass with genocide – this is most definitely Amaris !
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the Wolverines, would never have been chased out. No nuke, no depository destruction.
That is unless you use an orbital bombardment or an errant aerospace fighter laden with bombs rammed into it or if the building had an external fuel supply tank that was hit by an errant shot, exploded and took out the majority of the building – the fire then wiped out the remaining building …
Again, I would like to reiterate that nukes are just props in the game – used to create dynamic events and to cause shock and horror …. In my opinion it would be for the best just to get rid of them and all WMDs as they just ruin the story !
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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Karagin
08/24/21 09:22 AM
70.118.172.64
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I am asking because their Civil War set the grounds for what the Clans became. So if he wants them around in some shape or fashion he needs their civil war or something similar.
As for the Wolverines, there is more to them than just their fighting as they left Clan space. Again the Exodus Civil War was the forge that gave us the Clans.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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ghostrider
08/24/21 10:55 AM
45.51.181.83
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The question then comes to why even bother with terraforming any world? It is the same thing. Removing harmful to humans things from an environment and making the air breathable. This include things like changing out plant life and such to allow humans to eat and drink the local food and water.
The effect of mass drivers is to wipe out life on a world, and not having it glow in the dark afterwards. The impacts are the main thing to do the initial destruction. This is far easier to fix then nukes, and still does the removal of life.
The SL was the first to use nukes enmasse. They used them during the periphery wars, twice, as well as against their own worlds with Amaris. This also included orbital bombardment.
Now saying the clans are Amaris descendants while the IS would be the first to start the use of nukes and they would do orbital bombardments once they regained building warships is off.
The history of the IS during the succession wars shows they are willing to do so again. And given the fact none of them protested the use of these tactics used by the SLDF during those wars, it brings into question not if, but when the IS would use them against the clans.
Where in the story line did the clans keep using orbital bombardment as their main means of attack. They destroyed Turtle Bay, and that was it. The talk of making a story exciting, then removing a major threat from a story line sounds backwards. Might as well nerf the clans back into the time before humans left Terra. That would make it more exciting...
The repositories where not something like apartment buildings. They were made with things as close to indestructible as possible, so a simple fuel tank explosion would not destroy it, if the clans were stupid enough to have one there. A missed shot from orbit would be found out to be from another clan, not the Wolverines. Simple review of a battle would show this. As not enough information is given, the chance that a warship was fighting over the area was too small to even try. If tried, it is more likely the clans would have seen Nicholas's duplicity in it and started to question everything about his plans.
It is very true the clan civil war made the people agree to forming the clans, but remember that the alt wants to do away with them entirely. Or change them from the SLDF to the RWR. But this isn't an issue really if the statement of getting away from canon entirely is accurate. Sadly, I think we will see the same names come up with a slightly different set of circumstances, instead of an actual new slate.
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Karagin
08/24/21 11:47 AM
70.118.172.64
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Orbital Bombardment is not the same as the use of nukes. You can target a bombardment of naval weapons, whereas a nuke is a one-way area target weapon, not a pinpoint deal.
If he wants them gone, then changes need to happen BEFORE the SLDF takes back Terra. Something needs to be there to convince Kerensky and the other senior officers that they are the ones to take control vs running.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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ghostrider
08/24/21 12:09 PM
45.51.181.83
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You could help stop the nuke with the simple concept of not abandoning the Ares Conventions. That changes the history of the story line, though it means something has to give in the periphery wars, both reunification and rebellion.
I was thinking of suggesting the nukes used in WWII didn't work for some reason, such as the bomb design was flawed, or the right detonation cap wasn't used.
But any change requires a full change of the future/past of the story line. Some events can not happen, while others would come about that didn't. The destruction of all the wars would be changed, so radiation would not be why colonies were abandoned. Certain medical procedures would have to be changed. Even power production would have to be changed.
It can be done, but not easily.
But the simple thing way to deal with it, is keep it as a back ground threat, without using it often. The anger against those using nukes does motivate most people into wanting to stop those that do. Only the more sinister WMD garner more anger.
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Karagin
08/24/21 12:45 PM
70.118.172.64
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A simple overuse prior to the Ares Convention coming about, aka the POINT of the Convention, and thus the idea that using them is abhorrent and wrong. That could be the reason they aren't used anymore by anyone. Anyone who does use them, well it would be criminal and thus making them a pariah across known space.
Also, NO player should be tossing them around, thus background lost to history kind of thing.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Requiem
08/24/21 02:13 PM
124.184.134.200
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So if he wants them around in some shape or fashion he needs their civil war or something similar.
If you must know.
I find the Canon Clans irredeemable, reprehensible, and totally unrealistic.
To believe the ‘paladins’ of the SLDF fall so low within in the same generation that they departed the Inner Sphere is very hard to believe usually it is a very gradual process one small step, then another, and one day you find yourself a member of a totalitarian regime … due to both internal and external forces.
So lets get a few things understood …the entire Kerensky exodus is an absolute and utter shower of the highest magnitude! This is something you would expect of governments, not military - who usually require a plan, would also like to know where they are headed and why and would also appreciate an exit strategy ….
First, the military commanders of the SLDF are supposed to be some of the most intelligent from many different fields …
Second, they left the IS to preserve the values of the Star League and the SLDF as well as to reject the partisan values of the Great Houses – what this means is that the idea of succession by birth is now abhorrent to them (Thus the idea of Nicky becoming the successor to the Commander of the SLDF by birth and not ability is now ridiculous)
Third, the idea that the SLDF didn’t go into the exodus with eyes wide open is again ridiculous (when you are going to establish a whole new society within multiple new systems you will have to realize that 99% of the military will need to cash out of the military and take up civilian positions … this is a given … you cannot all remain in the military thus the majority will be in engineering civil construction and agriculture … the whole Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs must be understood by all going into this exodus …
Top to bottom …
Self-actualization – achieving one’s full potential including creative activities.
Esteem needs – prestige and feeling of accomplishment
Belongingness and love needs – intimate relationships, friends
Safety needs – security, safety
Physiological needs – food, water, warmth, rest (the whole - food, shelter, clothing bit etc)
Fourth, the idea that a new society on a new worlds requires all the military equipment they had whist being the SLDF becomes ridiculous – the majority of this will be needed to swapped over for civilian equipment as well as agricultural supplies etc …. ie. everything that an exodus fleet would have taken and more when they departed Terra to set up a new colony world.
Fifth, if this is going to go ahead ‘in secret’, then it will take time, years in fact to establish all the equipment necessary – dummy corporations will be needed to be set up, transport and warehousing of supplies (food and water for example will take up a massive amount of space) and will be necessary etc Also if animals are along for the ride this will also complicate matters…
Sixth, where are all the funds for these massive civilian purchases coming from?
Seventh, civilian experts will be required – civilian contractors, medical, farming, teaching etc …. Thus this little joint across space cannot be open to just SLDF personnel and their families it now must be open to others who may want to come along – thus the idea of a security leak now becomes a possibility!
Eighth, if the SLDF are going to look for new worlds it might be handy to take with them company explorers (and their ships) who’s employment is to find resource rich worlds that can sustain human habitation without the need for terraforming – as terraforming takes way too long and being stuck in a tin can for multiple years is again a ridiculous concept due to muscle and bone density fatigue, food and water etc – too many people and not enough gravity wheels etc on board ships.
Thus rather than marginally habitable worlds – what we are looking for are extremely habitable worlds – this also begs the question water is constantly required to be replenished (as per Operation Serpent) – so if Kerensky found an extremely habitable world why didn’t he settle for this than continuing on his voyage of the dammed? Was he that scared his people would run back to the IS unless they were so far distant that they had no choice but to remain – imprisoned by the tyranny of distance as well as ensuring all navigational logs were destroyed. This really speaks to canon’s Kerensky’s tyrannical nature towards the end of his life – as also shown in the Prinz Eugen incident! So how can a dictator establish a new colony and not expect it to go off the rails in a civil war down the track?
Thus in all reality it may be prudent to not act like some governments and run head long into a venture with no real plan, no achievable goals and no real and quantifiable exit strategy. (as demonstrated by some current governments and the crisis they find themselves in). In all reality therefore a secret space station within the deep periphery will be needed to be established with multiple explorer ships and HPG buoys to explore in advance of the main fleet to actually find an adequate destination prior to leaving the IS (thus you can quantify food requirements etc and not leaving it up to chance as per Kerensky’s trip to hell and back – mutiny and martial law during the voyage indicate a complete and utter failure …no idea how long the voyage would last so how do you plan for food and war needs for how many millions of people? ie a complete and utter logistical failure that should have added starvation and dehydration to the list of failures …)
Nineth, if the fleet is going to be as large as canon suggests it might be prudent to have as many mobile ship / dropship repair yard Vessels as possible – suggest expediting construction of as many of these vessels as possible
Tenth, you will want to take as much as you can with you thus you will require as many of the largest drop-ship Classes and jump-ship transport Classes as you can find to be included in the fleet.
Eleventh, if you are going to set up a new society, wouldn’t it be a good idea to determine how this is going to operate before you leave the IS and not just impose martial law throughout the voyage and afterwards – forcing people to test out and become farmers when they absolutely never had any intention of becoming a famer when they left the IS is a great way to start a civil war. That is, surely if you are leaving for a new life you actually know what that new life will be when you get there …
And there are more points to consider
In a nutshell just winging it whist taking a massive amount of military hardware, as it appears in the Kerensky canon story, is a great way you are going to end in a farcical tragedy! And was shown to have actually happened!
Then there is the society you are attempting to build … this should have been determined prior to leaving the IS as everyone would want to know what they are on this voyage for … why are they suffering this trip for … what is the goal at the end of the rainbow?
From the get go, you have rejected the idea of anything Inner Sphere like – So no to the idea of …
Nobility rank
Succession based upon birth rather than achievement (thus Nicky becoming the next leader is now impossible, unless he actually works for it over a very long period of time – demonstrating his ability not his name!)
A multicultural society that values diversification and abhors the sectarianism of the Great Houses – ie I am not from a Great House – I am of the Star League!
Everyone working together to form and work for a collective goal.
Then you have to ask will they reject the idea of currency in any form – people work for and are looked after, in all things, by the state?
So from there you have to make a choice and create your new society – give it values etc and breathe life into it with a rich and dynamic history – you also have to ask why they became militaristic.
Then you have to ask what system would best represent these values? Could be either a form of communism or democracy or something even older such as the Greek Spartans (minus the helots and way more egalitarian in values - such as those of the French Revolution mixed in).
At this stage a lot of care must be taken, in creating the new model SLDF society.
From there you work on your new society as best you can.
So, in the end you are as far removed from the canon clans as you can get!
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Removing harmful to humans things from an environment and making the air breathable. This include things like changing out plant life and such to allow humans to eat and drink the local food and water.
Who is going to do all this work, how much is it going to cost, and what is timeline years or decades?
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mass drivers … This is far easier to fix then nukes, and still does the removal of life.
How is fixing an ice age imposed by too much particles in the upper atmosphere – blocking the sun – easier to fix?
Also the SLDF went through a nuclear hell during the Amaris War – so wouldn’t their values be against their use ?
So wouldn’t they recognise that they have painted the Great Houses into a corner by utilizing an orbital bombardment – thus the best way to ensure this does not progress any further is to have a summit?
You cannot use your fists every time and expect people to listen! There are times when diplomacy is the only option.
They are Amaris descendants if they start geocoding people – which some of the clans already did during their long history – for their slaves revolting or for genetic purity!
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it brings into question not if, but when the IS would use them against the clans.
Problem is that recent history of warfare within the IS has explicitly removed the nuke and all chemical / biological weapons from war … so the question is what would drive the IS to re-using a weapon they themselves had expressly forbidden to use ever again?
Who and why would someone push them into a corner where they have no choice but to use it?
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They destroyed Turtle Bay, and that was it.
Problem is that the Jade Falcons threatened a RCT with an orbital strike if they did not immediately surrender. So now we have two clans and two separate incidents.
How many more possible incidents of orbital bombardment are the IS going to take before they strike back?
Currently the rule is even one use of an atomic weapon on any allied nation and the response is a complete release of ALL nuclear assets – Russia, China, America, Israel, Pakistan, India …
Each situation must be analysed due to its current historical effects on the individuals in which it affects as well as its broader societal effects …
Turtle Bay … the Coordinators Son … A Samurai Culture … House Honour …. The main people involved …… how their action will be perceived by their people and by their enemies … there is but one logical course of action post Turtle Bay – Nuking the warship out of space! This is the ONLY weapon system the DCMS has as a response to which the Clans will get the point – do this again and watch out!
Remember this is how the Coordinator of the DCMS talks to the Clans – though their actions. (13 day Cuban Missile Crisis proved this point!!!!!)
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The repositories where not something like apartment buildings. They were made with things as close to indestructible as possible
Why? This is a wase of materials as no one believed prior to the incident that such an act could ever occur. After the act – this is when they are placed in massive bunkers to protect them.
Also, there is absolutely nothing that man makes that man cannot destroy also!
As for the fuel tank explosion – what happens if a structural weakness is established and all that concrete is now bearing down on it? Same as a dam and the water bearing down on it – propagation cracks are established which finally leads to structural failure – the building falls over due to its own immense size and weight when they manufactured an indestructible as possible building.
As for the shot from orbit – please read the novel – Wolverine warships were in orbit. As for Nicky he has effectively whipped all the remaining Khans into his obedient house pets – loyal to him alone due to fear. Which really shows how far the SLDF has fallen when they refuse to speak up when it is clear an injustice is being done! Only one Khan is said to have had any remorse.
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the alt wants to do away with them entirely.
Yep, they are gone! – completely new slate – majority will change for the better!
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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ghostrider
08/24/21 03:30 PM
45.51.181.83
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The SLDF had issues with regional loyalties from the troops from the houses before they left.
To suggest Kerensky was a hack, then say the SLDF was supposed to be the top minds around is a bit contradictive.
The concept of the depots around the IS would also include building materials and such. It would be part of the military to have the parts to build a new city almost anywhere, as that is basically what it would take to keep an RCT functioning in hostile territory.
From the sounds of it, the SL DID explore a lot of the galaxy beyond the periphery. Why would Comstar be the only one to do this? Besides looking for the SLDF. The SL would have been looking for resources with no strings attached, IE no one else owned or claimed. Hence hidden bases abound. This would also decrease the houses power, as the TH portion would not be as reliant on them for those resources. Also, looking for hidden assets of the periphery states would force such action.
so the question is what would drive the IS to re-using a weapon they themselves had expressly forbidden to use ever again?
Your answer goes like this. Without warships of their own, the IS would nuke the clans. Not sure why this concept was missed when asking why the IS would start using nukes if they were banned. They used them throughout the succession wars, yet were banned by a treaty all disregarded. History repeats itself.
For the clans, removing the barbarians was the priority. Worlds were not something they needed at the time. So if it takes a decade, as long as the IS can't live on it, they would be fine. In the end, costs were not much of an issue with the clans other then to limit the clans from having more then they could use. And in their minds, sending a bunch of freeborns to clean up a world would have been a good thing, as it removes some of them from the home worlds. If they died, well there are more freeborns then can send.
And yes. Removing the crap from the air is easier to fix the nuclear fall out. Not sure why this was necessary to re-state.
Still don't get the fact that threats in war is normal. There is only one instance of warships being used to destroy something in the invasion. The DC used threats from the time they were formed into the future. Submit or die is the main concept of war. And what do you know, the DC used warships to wipe out a chunk of the FS forces in the future. OOOOOPPS!
Funny thing about the nuclear powers of the world. It is someone like North Korea that will start the end, not the big ones.
The Coordinator of the DC proved the clans would destroy him as he followed the old ways. The clans were far better at one on one then the DCMS was. Equipment was only part of why. Theodore was the one to turn the DC around, and finally started getting the DCMS out of the rut of some of the outdates parts of the old way. The DC had a lot in common with the clans. Disdain for anything that wasn't a mech being one. So yeah. Takashi told the clans that they would lose if he kept running the DC.
The genetic materials were worth more then almost everything else. To lose it meant the death of the clan. This is almost like asking why you put your HQ in an underground hardened bunker.
So where other warships. The fact that the flight with the nuke was engaged by Wolverine forces is where the truth was muddled. In orbit with all those ships watching, the Wolverines would not have fired making the story that much easier to disprove. To even try to use the nuke, the Ravens had to limit who knew what. So no one could be called to lie on the witness stand in court. This is how Nicolas was able to twist the truth.
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Requiem
08/24/21 08:50 PM
124.184.134.200
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To suggest Kerensky was a hack, then say the SLDF was supposed to be the top minds around is a bit contradictive.
Really? Remember he is a political appointee – Prior to taking the top job - half his career - the highest rank he achieved in the field is Captain – the other half of his career is within the Commander in Chief’s office as her aide.
How many people in the top job in the government are incompetent whist all around them they have all the smartest men in the room – and they still make an absolute wreck out of the job?
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the SL DID explore a lot of the galaxy beyond the periphery.
From the maps it would appear to be within the IS looking for new systems with no strings attached (for every known system there is potentially thousands of systems around it that have not been explored) – not beyond the periphery. It appears as the Periphery States / independent contractors / company explorers were the ones actively seeking new systems beyond the periphery.
Yes, the SLDF has access to civil engineering equipment – to a point as well as food and water. They do not, however, have access to farming / agriculture / viticulture / horticulture / aquaculture etc They also do not have access to civilian textiles. They also need many civilian businesses infrastructure, to establish a new society …
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Your answer goes like this. Without warships of their own, the IS would nuke the clans. Not sure why this concept was missed when asking why the IS would start using nukes if they were banned.
Not banned – an agreement not to use them – and what I have been saying all along – is nuke the warships first …. Not an all-out atomic war on every base and every ship and every planetary invasion …
This is a proportional strike – how many films / series regarding the President of the US have him / her ordering a proportional strike against some terrorist base because they bombed some US base / Embassy etc? This is the same plot development here – the Clans destroy a city via orbital bombardment and so the DC retaliate as – using a proportionate response – and nuke their ship.
This is the DC talking to the Clans – there are consequences!
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For the clans, removing the barbarians was the priority.
Yes removing the Clan barbarians is a priority – this is why you have psy-ops groups working on the free-born and the use of freeborn units for garrison duty – the absolute contempt the true born have for freeborn is a wedge that must be exploited.
If your team was sent to a nuclear contaminated world and you had an out by defecting do you really believe they would die for a regime that held them in such contempt?
Theis is the problem what happens to a clan if the majority of its free-born decide one day they have had enough and the IS assists them with a massive coup?
My bet is that Clan within the IS is now dead!
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And what do you know, the DC used warships to wipe out a chunk of the FS forces in the future. OOOOOPPS!
And what does this postulate for the majority of all future warfare within the IS – every house and clan uses warships to wipe out a chunk of their enemies forces in the future. OOOOOPPS! The TPTB have now shifted the game it is now no longer about Mech warfare it is now about using naval warships to obliterate your enemies ground forces whist still on the ground!
Can anyone explain why you would put 20% of all your forces on one planet at the same time?
Also it was clear the First Price was deranged so why keep him in power?
Sorry this story arc has all the believability of a cat flap in a nuclear submarine!
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The Coordinator of the DC proved the clans would destroy him as he followed the old ways.
Er no … as stated … Takashi followed the old ways … Theodore has initiated reforms … as seen during the conquest of Wolcott where the Smoke Jaguars LOST!
And can anyone explain why only one Clan was targeted – as stated many times this is one of the most ridiculous actions I have ever read – and BattleTech has more than a few that defy all reason!
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The genetic materials were worth more then almost everything else. To lose it meant the death of the clan.
And prior to the Wolverine incident did anyone believe that another clan would ever consider destroying another clan’s repository – especially when the new rules clearly define the areas where you fight (circles of equals) – which would be far removed from a genetic repository in order to limit the damage.
Again, there is absolutely no reason to waste materials
Also, because the clans no longer fight the same way as the Inner Sphere what is the point of putting your HQ in an underground hardened bunker as it is expected that the Khan and the sa-khan are to be out in the field with the troops fighting from their cockpit? Again, they are not inner sphere military commanders.
As for the wolverines – please read the book.
One further point – no additional questions regarding the new exodus other than using explorer ships to find a new world(s) for them – as they really do not want a world that is already on the map.
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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ghostrider
08/25/21 12:35 AM
45.51.181.83
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The SL would have been exploring systems around the IS and periphery, as that is part of what they did. Searching for pirates is but a small reason why they would do so. Failure to do so would mean more of what happened with the RWR would have happened. Secret worlds would be made by the Periphery and others, including the house lords. And we know the SL made such bases as well.
I would suggest looking at the Invader jumpship before saying the SL did not have access to hydroponics. The fact that any world that did not have a breathable atmosphere would have had such equipment installed, and this would also mean secret space stations. Civilians would not be allowed on those at all. The fact the the combat engineers would be required to set up such facilities, including Terraforming, would also suggest they had to have it. It is also required for assisting in finding cures for diseases as well as finding out what caused them.
You seem to fail to understand human thought patterns. What you consider appropriate would be considered weak or overblown by another person. Using a nuke against the clan warships would signify that you would not fight them honorably, so you should be treated in kind. Doesn't matter if the clans started it first. In their eyes, the IS was theirs to take when ever they wanted. Now someone decides to use force that is shunned by their standards. Do you not see the cycle of logic in this?
This also goes to say that Comstar knew how to make warships and did nothing to even suggest this to the IS, nor did they even fight against the clans with such measures until operation bulldog and task force serpent. Yet you suggest the SL was to give away all their tech to the houses?
What out is possible when the only thing that can get you out of system is a clan ship? The IS would be losing the war from all their jump capable vessels being destroyed along with anyplace that can make them. Until found, the clans homeworlds can pump those out making the attrition war theirs due to this fact. Once the nukes start, there is no turning back. The clans will wipe out all access to interstellar travel, and slowly take worlds at their leisure. Warships are theirs to use when they want. No need to nuke everything after there is little worry of the IS getting jump vessels. In system vessels are possible, but only on certain worlds. And that will not stop the clans from hitting them. It just means they will be ready for any attempts. Ion-Lithium battery trick will see to that. Pop in, see what is there, possibly launch shots against the enemy, and jump out before anything can hit them back.
Er no … as stated … Takashi followed the old ways … Theodore has initiated reforms
When did Theodore become the Coordinator? After Takashi was dead. So the statement was very valid. The Coordinator of the DC was showing that the clans had him beat. Again, this makes me wonder if you even know what the canon story is. It seems to be confused often with false facts or the alt.
And can anyone explain why only one Clan was targeted
This was explained a few times. You choose not to accept those explanations. And with this question being asked several times, it shows there is no comprehension of the canon story line.
Given the clans were started because of the civil war on the home worlds, why wouldn't you expect someone to try and kill off your clan before it even gets started? The honor road for them was not there. The events of the using of a nuke says that. People were still trying to see if the clans would work. The repository was their legacy. As stated, it was the most important thing at the time to preserve. Even tech was second to it. Given this comes from the Wolverines story, I don't see why this has to be explained yet again. You suggest the clans were afraid of Kerensky, yet that means the fact that all the others would not be concerned about the repositories being targeted.
Given the time of the repositories, the Civil war was still raging when the clans were formed and came out of the cluster. It was the clan fighting that stopped the war. Why wouldn't you have your HQ protected as best you could? Oh yeah. The actual time line screws up the altered facts. If the civil war participants had any clue, they would have struck the clans before they even got off the ground.
Every star in the galaxy would have been mapped out by anyone in charge. As for worlds in those systems, that is another story. This is also why the SLDF was concerned of pursuit. To be attacked before they even started building would be the death of them. To be honest, it would have been a smart idea to have any such map changed so no one knew where habitable worlds were. It would also be a good idea to change coordinates of some, to prevent someone from getting to them.
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Requiem
08/25/21 04:08 AM
124.184.134.200
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SLDF
Exploring unidentified systems with a view to establish ‘hidden’ fortresses / logistics command locations within the IS – Yes., this is very plausible – especially if they are adjacent to (within one jump) of regionally important worlds – based upon numerous criteria.
Exploring unidentified systems with a view to hunting pirates within the deep periphery – in my opinion this will be limited to a very cursory examination of the system for habitable worlds – if found to be a high probability habitat world they may undertake a further investigation – Though in reality as form 2655 my bet is that Mobile HPGs were established as satellites / space buoy with sensors – in the event a spaceship arrives – they send a signal back home the SLDF dispatch a s ship to investigate.
Though prior to 2655 the chance of ‘actually stumbling’ upon a pirate base within the deep periphery is next to nil – so your best bet is trying to analyse their attack patterns and get out in front with a trap.
As for Periphery Lords and House Lords – yes they too will be instituting a plans to establish ‘hidden’ fortresses / logistics command locations / military industrial manufacturing facilities to circumvent the 2650 edict.
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The fact that any world that did not have a breathable atmosphere would have had such equipment installed
Terraforming - Only if it is strategically important – otherwise it is not cost effective.
The number of and scope of combat engineering units must be staggering if all of these facilities, that are suggested being established, are being established.
Also since when did the SLDF have pharmaceutical division specializing in bottony etc in order to find remarkable plants etc ?
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You seem to fail to understand human thought patterns.
No, I do not think so – the appropriate response for a 3050 Samurai is vengeance, due to Turtle Bay and the fact Hohiro Kurita’s involvement – lest the Lord Theodore and his Grandfather Takashi will suffer irredeemable loss of face.
The act of deciding to use a nuclear weapon can only be taken from the point of view of the Kurita DCMS Samurai psychology. The clans have used a WMD upon a civilian city who assisted in Hohiros’ escape as a means of vengeance against them for disobeying them – where the people in their act of assisting Hohiro displayed their duty to the Dragon!
This act of loyalty and deaths to the Dragon MUST be honoured!
There is but one response – the destruction of the ship that brought them low.
So please tell me what weapon system other than a nuke does the DCMS have to take out a warship?
I have stated many books and even videos that will support this assertion.
So, if there is fault, please provide evidence as to why.
There is no way of getting around this, even the House Honour, would demand the DCMS attack and destroy the Sabre Cat.
This is the only logic that exists here!
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ComStar’s secret warship production
Yes ComStar did absolutely nothing to assist the Great Houses during the initial years due to Myndo Waterly’s single minded ambition to ensure Comstar remained ascendant above all others.
However Anastasius Focht is in the wings.
Also you do realize the size of the IS and as such the number os ships involved?
On the fist day one civilian ship is deliberately targeted - 1st succession war nuclear war … Phelan should have made this obvious.
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Once the nukes start, there is no turning back. The clans will wipe out all access to interstellar travel
They can attempt this as in all reality every house and ComStar has multiple hidden ship building facilities – and once more the game shifts from Mechs to Navy!
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Gunji-no-Kanrei (Deputy of Military Affairs)
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Draconis_Combine_Mustered_Soldiery#Gunji-no-Kanrei
“As kanrei, Theodore made a number of reforms, including offering less rigid interpretations of bushido, which angered many old guard officers; his successes during conflicts including the War of 3039 and Clan Invasion helped cement his role and gave his reforms more weight.”
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The Coordinator of the DC was showing that the clans had him beat.
Please actually do some research first! If this was the case then why fight on? – Why even defend Luthien from the Jaguars and Cats?
Sorry but this is not an accurate statement in my opinion.
The old dog fought to his very last – even when Theodore took his head.
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And can anyone explain why only one Clan was targeted
The new SLDF’s initial mission is simple – The restoration of ALL IS WORLDS to their original Great Houses.
The idea that you would only choose one demonstrates a complete lack of understanding of the situation – let me repeat this again – WW2 you decide to liberate Italy only you then decide not to continue the war and you let Germany have France, Poland etc …
This is what TPTB are suggesting here – and it is about time everyone recognised how completely ludicrous this statement is ! The canon story (at this point) has reached an all-time low !
In this war there is but one solution the removal of ALL of the Clans from the IS that have not switched sides.
If you want them to remain then they can establish realms in the Deep Periphery – but the new SLDF does not quit ever (no matter how many hundreds of years this takes) until every belligerent Clan force is expelled from the IS!
There is absolutely no way you can live in peace next to Mongol.
If the new SLDF is going it, to attack the Clans, … they have to deliver a blow that will make it impossible for the Clans military to recover. This is the true aim of Bulldog and Serpent - and this can only be initiated in year 14 of the truce following a massive rearmament process of new IS Omnis – with clan equivalent weapon systems.
What this also means is that the WOB and all of their forces are now a part of the new SLDF.
I would also like to point out that if you want the WOB to be evil this is very easy – once you reach the Clan home worlds let them be the SLDF Einsatzgruppen – tasked with the genocide of every clan’s genetic warrior repository.
So can anyone explain why only one Clan was targeted – as the logic makes absolutely no sense – AGAIN!
Why would you want to comprehend a story line that makes absolutely no sense whatsoever?
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The repository was their legacy. As stated, it was the most important thing at the time to preserve.
From the point of view of the regimes in 984, Brazil, Fahrenheit 451 – dystopian.
Missing the point … they are going along to get along because they are scared and intimidated by what he may order and who may follow that order.
The repositories and Nicky are again apples and oranges.
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Why wouldn't you have your HQ protected as best you could?
Because you were expected to demonstrate your martial prowess at all times – and this can only be done in battle and not cowering in an armoured underground box like a surrat.
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it would have been a smart idea to have any such map changed so no one knew where habitable worlds were.
Problem is how many copies have already been sent out for distribution – thus how many can be used to find them in the future when they actively search for you and they notice discrepancies in the map and the actual?
Thus they know there is something here that is being hidden from them.
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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ghostrider
08/25/21 11:35 AM
45.51.181.83
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Is terraforming ever cost efficient? Even a 'light' terraforming operation is not cheap. And most worlds were not terraformed because of military importance. They were decided for resources and living space for people. As you stated once before. There is no real battle lines in space. You can bypass systems, so choke points don't really exist.
How many times has the military been the one to start major operations to find the cure for a virus? And we don't know how many times it was military operations that gave break thrus for normal research into things as they don't announce it. Given the fact that this game deals with landing on other worlds, civilian doctors are not likely to be with units, means someone has to deal with things that weren't know before. This also include going to worlds that are already inhabited.
Civilian experts come in after the military does the initial work, and they hit a snag.
Please actually do some research first! If this was the case then why fight on? – Why even defend Luthien from the Jaguars and Cats?
I have read the storyline, and didn't add in what ever little bits came to mind with this. The why defend question is really mind blowing. Why do you defend anytime? Fight and die on your feet or live on your knees. The clans had Takashi defeated, and Takashi realized when the clans hit Luthien. He stated straight out he would have lost it all if not for Theodore's plan, and the mercs sent by the FC. Your own instance of having the DC use everything it had to hit the Saber Cat shows this. They would have to do that for ALL the worlds lost to the clans. Had they followed that, then the DCMS would have been destroyed before the clans even hit Luthien. But this is something you refuse to acknowledge. The DC is made up of more then just Japanese descendants. It adopted the Japanese philosophy for the most part.
The restoration of ALL IS WORLDS to their original Great Houses.
That would mean the FRR would return to the DC.
The fact that they only had the forces to hit one clan, along with the fact that if they hit any others would change the focus from the Jaguars being challenged to all the clans being challenged is why they hit only one clan. Not comprehending this simple fact? Thanks to Katherine, the forces of the SL couldn't do that again with other clans. They had to deal with the politics she was using to destroy Victor, which caused the SL to abandon chasing the other clans out.
When did the SL never quit come up? They were not going to throw away lives just because someone demands it. Those in the CC would demand the FC return every world taken since the original, as well as all the other houses. When would they quit on that?
So you want to know why they didn't hit the rest? Blame Katherine.
Learn the time line. Again you say the clans would challenge for the rights to what is in the repositories, yet it was before the honor of doing so was established beyond a doubt. The fact that two clans conspired to use a nuke against a third is more then enough proof that they were not yet trustworthy of such responsibility. There is no second chance to gain access to some, as the people were dead. The mixture of DNA meant the primary DNA was not the original. Nicolas would insist the repositories were strong. His own genes would be put in them, and his ego would make sure nothing happened to them.
As the events that the Wolverines dealt with were very possible to happen to others, securing a safe place was of great importance. This is not 100 years later. It was after the clans hit the civil war forces. No more then even 5 years to start this.
How many updates for maps come out? Simple things like a newly found black hole could change a system from being safe to jump to, and become a hazard to all. Until you actually go, you do not know for certain that the jump point is the standard distance from the star. Some factors will change this as you do need some gravity to pull you from a jump, as described in the jump process. That may well be in a major asteroid field. Yes, the jump is supposed to push things out of the way, but that does not stop moving items from smashing into you after the jump is complete. This is very true if multiple ships jump.
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Karagin
08/25/21 12:39 PM
70.118.172.64
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Terraforming takes time, it's not an overnight process and to think otherwise really shows that you have been paying attention to the game's history. Also not every world will even take to terraforming. Some planets will fight back at the lowest levels of their ecosystem.
Look how quickly both Mars and Venus reverted (that is IF you believe the ComStar reports), that should be a clue as to how a world will do it's best to go back to it's original state.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Cray
08/25/21 07:28 PM
71.47.151.234
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Terraforming takes time, it's not an overnight process and to think otherwise really shows that you have been paying attention to the game's history.
Absolutely. BattleTech's Projects Lowell and Aphrodite both took over 100 years to nominally make Mars and Venus (respectively) habitable, but Mars and Venus both required centuries of polishing to make them "nice" worlds. Mars received touch-ups in the 31st Century to win the political backing of locals, while Venus's terraforming failed in the same period because of 250 years of neglect by ComStar.
The upcoming Touring the Stars: Kerensky's Vision will look at an "easy" terraforming target planet (estimated 75 years to completion) that ended up requiring centuries and still isn't really complete as of the 32nd Century.
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Look how quickly both Mars and Venus reverted
Mars didn't revert. It actually got a bit nicer in the 3050s and 3060s thanks to some terraforming touchups that raised its atmospheric pressure a bit and dumped more water onto it.
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(that is IF you believe the ComStar reports)
No belief needed. As Mars' and Venus' writer, I'll swear on a stack of House Handbooks that Venus has turned into a super-greenhouse hell by 3076 while Mars remains a frosty but habitable desert.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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Requiem
08/25/21 07:32 PM
1.158.137.81
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Most worlds were terraformed due to economic reasons – what is under ground will eventually pay for the exorbitant cost ie you are making it easier to mine!
So now virologist team is part of the game?
The clans had Takashi defeated - Not by a long shot – TPTB never looked at a military map as to the location of every DCMS force at this stage – if they did anyone would have realised there were still military options available to Takashi. Sorry but this is once again a story arc with many black holes in it. If at this stage the DCMS required assistance this bad then the DC, RR and the FC should have been discussing a military and logistics alliance at this stage – ie WW2 England, USA and Russia. Again, we have a story trying to invoke emotion rather than a story based on cold military logic and diplomatic necessity.
Again – if some-one had just done some research and thought about this it could have been a little more believable!
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Your own instance of having the DC use everything it had to hit the Saber Cat shows this.
Since when is one jump-ship two dropships, eighty fighters and who knows how many nukes everything the DCMS has to kill the Sabre Cat?
If WW1 – WW2 – Korean – Vietnam – and the modern wars would have been studied a little more in depth many of the stories in the game would be far more believable. Also, if someone had just created a map with pins in it indicating the location of all the forces real time (as I have for many of the wars) then you realize there are problems with the writing of the game’s wars.
Have a look at my posts re the CC war I posted recently – the 4th succession war should not have been constructed based on the number of worlds invaded and controlled – the 4th should be regarding those strategically military industrial worlds that enable their military to function – take these few worlds and the CC ceases to exist militarily!
Sorry but again the Clan Invasion Arc was not very well executed or written!
Also the DC has attempted to enforce the Japanese culture upon everyone – also all decisions at the highest level are based upon this view!
That would mean the FRR would return to the FRR.
The fact that they had 15 years to construct the forces to hit every clan is the issue not that they decided to waste how many years go early and totally stuff everything up in the long run!
Again, a very badly written story!
As for Katherine Vs Victor – in all reality if she wanted the throne Victor would be long dead as the assassin would have been sent after him first – or one of his lance mates / Mech technicians would have been paid off and sabotaged his Mech!
Though in all reality Katherine is by far the more suited to govern the civilian side the FC whist Victor should have been placed in command of the Military.
When did the SL never quit come up? Necessity – will the Clans ever quit? So until the Clan quit the IS cannot quit!
Guess who has attrition on their side?
As for the CC they should have been subjugated by the FC either 4th Succession War or 3039 - so they really do not get a voice in the discussion except for the St Ives enclave.
As for the FWL and the WOB – both will need to assist long term – the FWL need the FC and the DC to remain strong so they can absorb all the damage whist the FWL becomes economically strong by supplying all the arms – as well as keeping the clans away from FWL space.
Also it was not Katherine who decided to attack only one clan – go back and re-read – the decision was made in the military discussion group at that time ie by Victor!
Again this totally does not recognise a total war footing by a state as per WW2 which should have been instituted and does not recognise many of the issues that should have been occurring at this time.
Quote:
Nicolas would insist the repositories were strong.
Change strong to safe. The building would be placed in such a location that warfare would not be permitted any-where near the site by law. Remember the clans are only allowed to fight within predesignated areas – circle of equals – they set the prize for the battle at the beginning ie the DNA of a specific blood line so after the battle if it is necessary they can be taken out in the strictest of security and safety for their contents and handed over… no breakages whatsoever, all very civilized.
It is only after the wolverine incident would further security be considered!
Maps
As the game has never actually discussed stellar cartography and the dissemination of information in detail any argument will devolve quickly into personal opinion. That said, each House would have their own department - they would also have treaties during the SL era to disseminate as quickly as possible and stellar navigational hazards locations as quickly as possible as this would make the most sense for an era that involves massive black sea fleets.
Terraforming
Yes I agree – there are issues that need to be worked out.
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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Karagin
08/25/21 09:02 PM
70.118.172.64
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Quote:
Quote:
(that is IF you believe the ComStar reports)
No belief needed. As Mars' and Venus' writer, I'll swear on a stack of House Handbooks that Venus has turned into a super-greenhouse hell by 3076 while Mars remains a frosty but habitable desert.
Looks around for WoB Wraiths and Taus and ROM Agent...are you sure you weren't followed?
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Karagin
08/25/21 09:04 PM
70.118.172.64
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All jokes aside, Terraforming isn't easy or cheap and as I said not all worlds will take it. I am surprised we don't have hellhole worlds where the terraforming and the local flora and fauna went haywire and gave us a living nightmare.
You know, something the WoB MD would feel right at home in.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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ghostrider
08/25/21 10:08 PM
45.51.181.83
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How can you say that you had live updated maps the entire time you played, and yet have no real clue on how many forces they had, nor the amount of jumpships to move them with? Then add in the time it takes to move those units onto dropships, as their forces are not permanently on dropships, then move to the jump points and head out. That is IF intel is accurate to the very second, which it never was. And with all this, your past responses have suggested you don't bother to leave anything for defense of such worlds, which would lead to counter invasions once the enemy found you had moved those forces. The entire thing is slanted towards an unsustainable outcome. This would be coupled by the insistence that everything you needed was at your fingertips the entire time.
The fact that the RCT teams for the FS/FC tended to say 1 mech regiment, 3 armor and 5 infantry does NOT mean they were fully equipped. Quite the contrary.
As you are saying canon did not have a clue, the alt does not apply. Alt is your numbers, not those that wrote the story line. This has been a theme throughout your discussions of canon. Saying the alt does this, and so should canon because they don't know their own numbers.
As a side note, what mercs were used to figure all this out? You have absolutely NO idea of how many mercs there are and where they were at. So your figures are completely off. This is not even including local lords units and corporations. So no. The statement of the pin board is misleading at best.
Your statement: They do not, however, have access to farming / agriculture / viticulture / horticulture / aquaculture etc
This question seems to include virologist as well as others, as they are part of dealing with growing food, and making sure it was fit for human consumptiong. So this: So now virologist team is part of the game? is your response. Why ask when you had questioned where they were?
Have a look at my posts re the CC war I posted recently – the 4th succession war should not have been constructed based on the number of worlds invaded and controlled – the 4th should be regarding those strategically military industrial worlds that enable their military to function
This shows you don't have the real figures on what the canon storyline had, nor where or what they were watching out for. Even how they would move those forces to even begin to take them, as they were not all bunched up in systems that were side by side is missing. YOUR NUMBERS do not matter when talking canon outcomes.
When did the SL never quit come up?
Learn the story line. The SL quit hitting the clans because of things that Katherine was doing. The fact that she was dealing with Vlad and making a mess of the FC is why they quit hitting the clans. She destroyed the ability to challenge each clan for their right to invade. Or did that get deleted from the canon storyline and I didn't know about it?
Remember the clans are only allowed to fight within predesignated areas
The clans were not supposed to resort to nuclear devices for warfare. How did that turn out? They were not supposed to lie about things like who did what, such as have a nuke on a fighter that was shot down. How did that turn out? Oh yeah. The clans were just formed, and everyone was supposed to believe no one would violate the rules. Given they just came off the civil war fight, I don't think anyone believed everyone would follow those rules just yet.
Also it was not Katherine who decided to attack only one clan – go back and re-read – the decision was made in the military discussion group at that time ie by Victor!
The decision was made by ALL the houses thru politics. The FWL and CC would not support freeing FC worlds, so in order to end the invasion they went with the worst of the clans. They happened to be in DC space. If the Bears were the biggest threat, then they would have been hit first. The push to remove all the clans fell apart when they got back to the IS and Katherine was screwing everything up. ALL knew it. Had she not bothered to usurp the throne, it is very likely the LC and FRR would have had liberation campaigns started. But again, this means admitting the truth.
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Requiem
08/26/21 08:42 AM
1.158.137.81
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Maps, units, and locations are available as supplied in House Tomes.
Jump-ships approximated via 4ths Succession war Tomes.
Time it takes to move – can be calculated vis Sarna information on each world.
Defence of each world – as stated many times about responding to the Clan invasion.
Timeline / requirement for the establishment of new SLDF (far earlier than in canon)
Counter invasion by whom? And how is this unsustainable?
And no everything is not at my fingertips - multiple calculations can approximate a reasonable timeline based on all relevant available data.
How is a RCT not fully equipped? As they are supposed to respond to planetary invasions as well as the possibility of war at any time – so where is each units’ readiness reports located on a yearly basis as well as a report indicating their logistical requirements?
Sorry, but I said the canon story was implausible given available parameters supplied.
The canon story stars as per information supplied – you can then track what is occurring as per information supplied by canon.
Mercs can also be tracked by canon information supplied – as these were also included in the Clan Invasion Tomes.
Question -Local Lord’s Units are usually not that large or are incorporated into reserve / guards unite per world – also why would you dispatch reserve units against the Clans? Also Corporations how many have a permanent Mech unit? And how many hire Mercs? So why would you send small units against the Clans?
For example - 5th Sword of Light – 3050 Dieron …. Could have been moved …
What we are tracking on the pin board is the larger Regular units as well as the Larger Mercenary forces based upon all available data - so yes you can, with a little effort, approximate a reasonable timeline. Otherwise then every game designed by everyone (except those sanctioned by TPTB) is now questionable and by extension no longer worth considering.
Definition as per google - Virologists are medical doctors that oversee the diagnosis, management and prevention of infection. They're also scientists, who may drive research on various aspects of viruses. A virologist may be both a scientist and a physician.
Question how does an analysis of the assignment of CC target worlds during the 4th Succession War - as to the identification of primary targets based on military industrial capabilities – rather than geographical targets have anything to do with the Clan Invasion?
The IS stopped attacking the Clans due to Victors and the entire new SLDF short-sightedness - they returned from Huntress declared Victory on Luthien and promptly disbanded – They had just recaptured from the Jaguars the DC worlds but didn’t care at all for those in the LA (Where Victor grew up – thus indicating how great a leader Victor is) – so Victor just quit the SLDF. Thus this has absolutely nothing to do with Katherine and everything to do with Victor having ‘no desire for war’ and having a desire to remain with Omika in her garden.
So, rather than actually doing their jobs as the leaders of the Inner Sphere they decided to cede all remaining worlds taken by the remaining Clans to them rather than actually attempting to get them back.
The Clan Khans agreed to a set of principles – every clan was obeying them there was absolutely no sign of mendacity until Nicky decided to crack the whip – thus there was absolutely no reason to stick the repository in a bunker.
The decision was made by ALL the houses thru politics.
And what a great (sarcasm) decision that was – was any thought even given to spend time to build a larger military? No – the decision was made on the premise of what was available at the time!
Also how is ending the invasion when the decision is made to only remove one of the Clans that is within the IS? This does NOT end anything – To END the Clan threat is to remove ALL of the Clans within the IS that have not switched sides.
Also, again Katherine did not screw everything up as she was not in the military session – whereas Victor was – when it became apparent that she did not have the votes for the Jade Falcons she switched her vote for Jag’s thus she can be seen as being a reasonable ruler by acting in the best interest of the IS and not her own petty interests …
So again, she comes out of this situation by looking like a true leader whereas Victor comes out of this as the man who said ‘who cares about FC and FRR worlds captured by the Clans, lets just use the new SLDF to assist the DC only!’ through his actions.
Why is the LC trying to liberate itself against their ruler that they love? And why would the FWL want to remove Katherine when it is Victor he has an issue with due to the death of ‘his’ son and the plant of a double? Wouldn’t it be more plausible to suggest the FWL would want to remove Victor and help Katherine to the complete throne of the FC?
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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ghostrider
08/26/21 12:21 PM
45.51.181.83
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You don't understand that damage and losses of units such as mechs don't get magically replaced the moment they are in that condition? It is extremely easy to lose things like jeeps. Replacements are normally lighter units. Repairs take time. Going by game rules, you can do a partial repair, like internal structure, yet that means you lose 1-4 points of armor permanently on that unit. For light mechs, that may well mean all armor off a limb. Unlike the rosy picture you like to portrait, you probably do not have an arm in stock for that unit, and it does not magically replace the one on the mech.
Mech units are lucky to have a full tech contingent, and those normally mean normal maintenance with only a little extra to do major repairs.
There are also forces that are part of the unit that aren't available at the time to move out.
There is always the issue of not having the ships to move them including Jumpships. Conscription is not something the governments like to do. Even break downs in the ships prevents full deployment.
You still don't believe pirates are a threat? They don't care about the clans, except that they distract the militaries, given them a chance to take even more things without worry about getting hit. And this doesn't touch the periphery deciding to take a few things. No matter what you think, they will do such things.
Track things as information is supplied by canon. Yet we all know canon does not supply all the information that you need. Canon says unit x is on planet y, but that is only where the HQ for the large unit is. The unit itself is spread out over a few locations, including other systems. Canon does NOT supply you with a list of other units like the smaller mercs or pirates and such. Canon does not supply you with the ships that are available in a region or even system. It does not tell you that 2 battalions are waiting for repairs or replacements at they just went thru a nasty combat. It takes a while for forces on a single world to get back to HQ in order to even attempt to load up on dropships, as they are not going to be picked up by those very dropships unless the unit is that special.
You do know some of the RCTs are personal units of march lords? Or did you not read that?
So why would you send small units against the Clans?
You do understand that small units are integrated into larger ones, or combined to make a larger one for combat purposes? The whole send company x on the left flank and company y on the right flank can be used? Or z company is off hitting the enemies supplies? This is part of combat. Not the neutered concept of having everything in one large group and go like that. We are not talking a few hundred miles, but entire worlds, and sometime even multiple worlds.
But I think I see why you hate the clans warships. Your huge group can't do much but die in an orbital bombardment against them.
I haven't heard of other games trying to change the entire storyline beyond what can be fixed. They don't become lords of the realms. They may make a small duchy with a few worlds, but they do not stop the clans with a single infantryman with an SRM launcher. They don't change the overall events of the game.
Definition as per google - Virologists are medical doctors that oversee the diagnosis, management and prevention of infection. They're also scientists, who may drive research on various aspects of viruses. A virologist may be both a scientist and a physician.
And what does this have to do with you asking where they were, then suggesting surprise when they were said to be in the game?
The concept of war is not only trying to take targets to make weapons of war, but to secure locations around it to continue to keep ownership of said areas. Hanse knew there was only so much he could take in the first place and wanted to make sure he did not lose it to a counter assault or the FWL. As it was, the occupation troops were not as good as he wanted them to be. He wanted Max broken, but needed the CC to keep distracting the FWL. It was to punish Max, but ended up looking like a land grab to the only people that mattered to the FS. If he had just taking the Tikonov area, and stopped, then it wouldn't have looked so bad. That was just shoring up the contact point with their ally. But it seems any strategy that involves more then pure greed of taking factories is beyond understanding. It is possible to take worlds without a fight. Something Sun Tzu would say is better then destroying it in a fight. Basically a large siege by taking things around it.
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ghostrider
08/26/21 02:50 PM
45.51.181.83
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Yeah. It must have been Victor's fault that no one else was put in charge to lead another foray into the clans. It was Victors fault Katherine decided the usurp the throne and form an agreement with Vlad. It was Victors fault that several important people were assassinated during the flight out to the clan home worlds. It was Victors fault that the others decided that hitting the clans again would be a bad idea, as they needed their forces back in their territories. In fact, it was Victors fault for the entire clan invasion because he was born first. Might even by why the original SL dissolved.
Now the short sighted bs.
The troops that went with Taskforce Serpent were traveling and fighting for over a year. They were tired. To suggest they just jump back into it would have been an utter failure. I know you would love that, as you would say it was Victors fault for doing so. Trying to swap out units wouldn't have worked well because the WHOLE reason to hit the Jaguars was to stop the invasion. If not for other issues, the IS would have started rolling back the clans without trying to sell the need to return to clan space, which would not have been possible.
The Clan Khans agreed to a set of principles – every clan was obeying them there was absolutely no sign of mendacity until Nicky decided to crack the whip – thus there was absolutely no reason to stick the repository in a bunker.
Inaccurate at best. The leaders agreed to it, yet the duo was using a nuke to attack another clans. Really sticking with the agreement. The fact Kerensky was after the Wolverines was their being nice to the other castes. So that was following the agreement. Conspiring to kill a clan thru lies is following the rules.
And this does not even touch what the soldiers would do. It has been done in the past that those UNDER the top leaders did things on their own accord. Nothing new there. So the ability to kill a clan by wiping out their replacement pool would be too good to pass up. And this was BEFORE Kerensky decided to pick a clan to join with. But we know how history doesn't repeat itself, and that the only time bad things like this happen is when a specific writer wants it to.
To END the Clan threat is to remove ALL of the Clans within the IS that have not switched sides.
Funny. This is the very thought of what caused the destruction of the succession wars. The clans only switched sides once the IS got the 2nd SL together. And what happened with the 2nd SL? Each first lord used it to further their nations goals while hampering the rest. But to commit genocide as you are saying they would have to, would show the IS was doing the same thing Amaris was. Oh yeah. Guess that isn't according to plan.
And while Victor was away, she made sure she was in charge of the LC armed forces, so there was no chance to hit another. She would have removed the one person most of the IS was at least respectful of his skills, to replace him with who? Someone that couldn't do the job, or was a toady to Katherine? Nondi was not up to the task, and her handling of the initial invasion showed that. Oh yeah. She was the one guiding the LC/FC response for the invasion. Hmmm. Funny how that is overlooked.
And the very accords Katherine used to pull the LC out of the FC was the same one that allowed Nondi to keep Victor out. So that isn't an excuse.
And why would the FWL want to remove Katherine when it is Victor he has an issue with due to the death of ‘his’ son and the plant of a double? Wouldn’t it be more plausible to suggest the FWL would want to remove Victor and help Katherine to the complete throne of the FC?
Victor was seen as the boogie man which would allow Marik to keep the FWL focused on the FC, and not each other. Katherine was more dangerous as she was a media manipulator. Victor did not come up with the double idea, but allowed it to continue. Thomas realized this even though in pain at the time. So using that pain, he could keep things going the way he needed it to. Helping Katherine would be entirely against his main goals, which would be splinter the most powerful nation in the IS. Otherwise, he would have to contend with her crap. Victor was a bit predictable with his military background. He was more honest then Katherine ever was. Otherwise, he would not have been allowed to command the forces given to Taskforce Serpent to begin with.
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Requiem
08/26/21 03:31 PM
1.158.137.81
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This damage and losses, has it been quantified anywhere as to the amount initially received per unit or even per Mech or vehicle?
Is it time-period specific?
Does it take into consideration converting any economy – Military Industrial Complex - shifting from a normal economy to that of a total war out-put as per WW1 and 2?
Do we have an inventory per unit as to their list of spare parts for both the Inner Sphere and the Clans or is it assumed based upon the tonnage available within Dropships and we do not need to factor into the equation the storage of food and water for a long voyage?
Do we know how many tones of equipment are held within each base for all Inner Sphere Garrison Forces – including all consumables?
Is it for the Inner Sphere Units Only, and if so is there any exemptions, or is it applicable to the Clans as well?
Does it take into considering the idea of the length of a logistical chain when it comes to resupply - is there even such a thing a resupply schedule within the game whatsoever for both the Inner Sphere or the Clans?
Also, if you introduce a logistical hunting group within the game has this been quantified as to the amount of impact this will have upon the game for both the Inner Sphere and the Clans?
Also is there a schedule for replacement personnel – for both the Inner Sphere and the Clans?
Do you even have the number of Jump-ships and Drop-ships available and is there a break-down timetable that I can factor in so as to restrict logistics and replacement personnel – for both the Inner Sphere and the Clans?
Do you have all Military Industrial Facilities output numbers so that it can then be sent to a logistical hub for distribution to each individual unit as per their request for spares?
Are we using a just in time logistical schedule or some other system?
Can any of this information be provided prior to or during the Clan Invasion, on a monthly basis, or do I just wing it for the entire clan invasion?
Also is there a massive spreadsheet to which all of this information can be supplied or am I supposed to create this myself – also does it provide options to allow for real time changes due to changes I wish to introduce into the game?
Also do you have exact numbers as to all the pirates, and their TO&Es, where they are located and who engages them first Clan or Inner Sphere? Also is there a special table for pirates for their initial damage per Mech or vehicle also do you have their logistics numbers per pirate band on hand? As we know that Phelan was Pirate Hunting with the Kell Hounds when he was taken so how many others were out there?
Or is it at the discretion of each gaming group to make these decisions as there is absolutely nothing written down?
And you do realise that if a House Lord orders his March Lords to use their units under their command they have no choice but to obey, or do we now facto in the issue of March Lords defying their Liege Lords as I must have missed that in the game? Can you tell me the names of any March Lord who refused and when and the units they refused to send to the front? Or did you not read that?
Can you also supply me with a list of all small units that were integrated with larger units that were not included within any of the Clan Invasion Tomes?
Quote:
But I think I see why you hate the clan’s warships. Your huge group can't do much but die in an orbital bombardment against them.
So, does this mean that I can now use multiple nuclear strikes as the Clans are now using multiple orbital bombardments – does this mean that the war has now shifted to a 1st Succession war Scenario - can I now have revised figures as to all the information requested above?
Quote:
I haven't heard of other games trying to change the entire storyline beyond what can be fixed.
Except for games like D&D that just wing it based upon the DMs whim and the players responses to what they want to do.
It is not as if when you amass a vast amount of experience points and you get into the high levels that you cant affect the region in a massive way.
It is not as if you can become the regional Lord and direct all the forces under their command into massive wars when you become high enough.
It is not as if a single aerospace pilot can kamikaze their fighter into the bridge of a warship and kill the il-khan. They don’t change the overall events of the game or do they?
Virologist – 08/25/21 Post - How many times has the military been the one to start major operations to find the cure for a virus?
The concept of war – also includes Logistics – “the means of strategy and tactics, determines what is practically possible in war. Its nature is expressed in operational choices and decisions, and is fundamental to military preparedness. Therefore, understanding its nature is vital to commanders and institutional leaders.”
Why else was the use of bombers so prevalent during WW2 – what was the main reason for the failure of the Rommel in North Africa, operation Market Garden, Battle of the Bulge – why did every side have mass submarine fleets, what were they trying to achieve?
Taking and holding mass areas of land – why?
What if you take and hold the majority of a realms major Military Industrial Complexes – what effect does this have on their military – and what immediate response id required by the enemy in such a situation?
As shown it is possible for Hanse to invade the majority of the CC’s major Military industrial facilities on day 1 of the war. How long after this until the majority of the CC military units are destroyed – thus the war ends sooner – fewer civilian losses for Hanse to pay in rebuilding efforts post war.
Remember this is a three-dimensional game not two the concept of taking every world is an obsolete concept - it really is not necessary for this war as Hanse could have used this Blitzkrieg strategy just as the Germans did in WW2 all the way to Paris.
And as stated within this strategy – he could have used the MoC, as well as the FWL forces to carve up the CC and keep other CC units on the other side of the realm busy – as the ultimate goal is the destruction of the CC, wanting Max broken was just icing on the top.
Fist the Military Industrial capabilities – then the remaining CC regular forces – then the mop up to secure the land.
This could have been achieved in record time – even ComStar would be left in the dust as to trying to fake an incident on a remote HPG if all the FS / LC Regular forces are on major industrial worlds - who also have very large media contingents.
IT IS ACHIEVABLE – the fall of the CC by the end of the 4th Succession War. Thus, by the 3039 War the FC has way more units than that of Canon to hit the DC with – so how many ghost units is ComStar going to give the DC now for the FRR? Thus, everyone now knows that ComStar has how large an Army at their disposal – and can anyone say why an organisation that is supposed to be dedicated to peace has access to such vehicles and in such quantities and where have they been hiding them all this time?
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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ghostrider
08/26/21 09:09 PM
45.51.181.83
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Get the total warfare economy out of your head. The IS did that for so long, they basically destroyed the economy for so long, that in the 3025 era, they were just barely starting to come back. This is why there were shortages of things like jumpships and the IS only made about 3000 mechs a year, and most of those were replacements for units lost during the year from raids and invasions. Again, your figures in canon do not matter.
Shifting to total war is what nearly destroyed the FS during and after the 4th war. If not for the LC, the FS would have been in far greater problems then it was. A fact you still choose to ignore.
Maybe if you actually played a full strategic game of some warfare, you would understand that raids main function it to wipe out stockpiles when found. So one month, you are riding high on having what you need, to being in the hole as your depots are gone and you used a lot of it shooting at the enemy. The same thing happened to Germany in WWII. They could not keep supplies in the front lines. Once they were falling back the concept of destroying all the bridges kept the Allies back until they could get something going. And with this, isn't the job of the Wolfpack to remove supplies from reaching Europe? Then you have issues with the better units basically demanding the lesser units supplies so the better ones could be closer to full strength. And when you try to play the game, do it without god mode on.
All the items you listed shows why there is no way to track everything on a pin board as you have no clue on what is where. The game is NOT going to list everything everyday. We know not everything was great with the game. Units were constantly short of things, as militias being a big one to not have the items.
How badly hurt was the Northwind Highlanders during their assault on the Smoke Jaguars during the attack towards the home worlds? How many units were destroyed during the invasion? They didn't list the local militias nor how much was lost. It wasn't stated they lost so many dropships and jumpships during the invasion. How about the 3039 war? Not every unit was listed as what damage they had. The fight was not just focused on the small section of the border. They had to deal with keeping forces pinned, which normally meant sending in smaller forces just to make noise. But your everything in one large unit doesn't deal with it. So the concept suggests there is no REALITY involved here. It is all just saying you won and moving on. Your entire base would be wiped out as soon as you left.
Or is it at the discretion of each gaming group to make these decisions as there is absolutely nothing written down?
This is what you don't comprehend. You say canon is wrong because you don't have the information you need to say it is wrong. You assume your numbers are correct and say to everyone that canon is wrong. Your game is your game. Telling everyone else their game is wrong because it follows canon is the issue yet again. This is just another way of saying canon is wrong because your alt says it is. Canon has many issues, but it is the games story line. Use canon facts to say canon is wrong, not made up figures that no one knows anything about. The conclusions posted are inaccurate as it is base on false facts. There is no way you can demand things be a certain way, as you don't know everything.
Even if the developers just said this is the way it is, canon is their storyline. Your numbers don't mean anything to the canon storyline.
The 8th FedCom RCT resists direct orders from Field Marshal George Hasek to transfer from Kathil to Lee.
Yeah. I guess someone didn't read the actual story line.
You want to change the story line to fit what you want, yet suggest that in doing so, you don't destroy the integrity of the future story line. D&D does not have everyone expecting to step into another groups campaign and have everything the same. It is also noteworthy that people are not saying the canon story line is wrong because their campaign says so.
So now you want to use plot armor to suggest the game can be changed? Getting desperate? The story line did NOT change due to this fact as the developers PLANNED this chain of events. Did you suggest that Luke Skywalker blowing up the Deathstar was a fluke? That was the story line. Saying Leah did would be changing the storyline.
The same can be said for Kai or Phelan. They were written to do what they did. It was not some random chance. To remove them would be to destroy the story line with no chance to return. Continuity is gone.
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