Karagin
09/14/21 08:03 PM
70.118.172.64
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Ghostrider: He keeps trying to make his version canon because it makes sense to him, he has expressed his dislike of canon and keeps trying to bring things around to canon. We keep going in circles with him, and it's the same arguments and counters each time.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Requiem
09/15/21 06:41 AM
1.158.137.81
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The jump is too great to be odd research.
In hundreds of research facilities – Universities – Corporations scattered throughout the Inner Sphere. This is a complete proliferation of advanced technology technology, that in turn can only be described as a technological renaissance …
All throughout the Inner Sphere corporations have been seeded with advanced technology, first in civilian areas no one would take notice of though slowly and most deviously this proliferation is spreading to the military sector …
Over a short period of time the complete Inner Sphere has jumped from current to Clan technology in all areas …
As everyone is making Clan Tech at the same time this cannot be “Suspicious”
No one is blinking an eye as everyone considers this advancement in technology be nothing more than normal.
As for Comstar … they would be exasperated in trying to determine a common link to the proliferation of advanced technology ….
As for the Dragoons and their agents – how easy it is to be a tree within the forest.
And this is why it is just accepted as is … no one, except for comstar, could even realise that there has been a major shift in technological advancement.
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Such as the ERPPC reaching another 30 meters, or doing a little more damage IE instead of 10 points doing 11 or maybe 12. 15 is too far out.
How is this obeying your orders to prepare the IS? This is just putting a band-aid over a wound where major surgery should have been considered.
The only way to prepare is technological equality.
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Comstar checking gun footage. IS not getting gun footage.
Problem is that the IS did get the footage – or are how is ComStar going to explain when survivors get out that they sent the images and have the receipt and yet their superiors still have yet to received the footage …
One person gets out who knows the information was sent and the IS have yet to receive it … good luck in trying to explain that away.
All Inner Sphere Houses will know that Comstar is playing games again ….
But this really shouldn’t be a surprise considering all the shadow wars that have occurred between the Houses and Comstar …
Thus more Black Boxes ….
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Phelan figured that out before Comstar did. He sent word for the others in the Kell hounds on the world to take that and get out.
Where does this come from?
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Until the warship does something like fire weapons, there is more belief in it being just a shell that was found and made space worthy, then a fully functional warship.
Can you take the risk?
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So taking out defenders before hitting the main target is not viable? The conflict of going straight in, verses taking out forces from the sides is the issue.
Depends on what is feasible, achievable and practical at the time … what are you trying to achieve? And in what time frame are you trying to achieve it in? And do you have the forces to achieve it?
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Again. Page 15, top right portion of the paragraph. The remaining vessels number about 2,000, an amount that has remained fairly constant for decades. This has been posted before.
Book name?
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Making up numbers then saying canon is wrong is the problem.
Why am I writhing these Alt universe settings …..? This has been stated many times.
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Why do you think they got all their forces out before firing?
Hopefully they were far enough away and did not become collateral damage from a friendly fire mistake due to a bad roll.
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Ghostrider: He keeps trying to make his version canon because it makes sense to him, he has expressed his dislike of canon and keeps trying to bring things around to canon. We keep going in circles with him, and it's the same arguments and counters each time.
Karagin: I have made this clear many times – my Alt universe is NOT there to replace canon!
My Alt universe is for those who wish to consider an alternate setting for their game – it is a means of providing that alternate basis for their setting.
For those who wish to remain with the cannon script … good luck to you.
For those who would like to consider an alternate setting …
Such as
Deep periphery raids against Clan Logistic fleets or attempting to find clan bases in the deep periphery …
Become a renegade Clan Unit made up of free borns who have defected to the Inner Sphere …
Treasure hunting similar to that of Snord’s Irregulars
Or considering different means of defeating the Clans as they continue to wage war within the Inner Sphere
And many other settings that have been provided to help make the game a little more fun, realistic and enjoyable …
Thus providing back stories that can be considered believable so as to understand the new universe for your game setting
So again please note this is for those who want some thing different to the cannon setting.
For those who wish to remain with canon … that is your choice.
As we all have the choice to fight for who we want to fight for – be in the setting we want to be with – and have those around us that we want in our game – and to have the story that we want to be in … be it canon, mine or your own we all have choices!
Just have fun.
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
Edited by Requiem (09/15/21 06:42 AM)
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ghostrider
09/15/21 10:50 AM
45.51.181.83
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The time frame is 3005 to 3015. WHERE is ANY IS factories putting out clan tech? How about SL tech? All of the sudden a Merc unit starts producing equipment beyond what the SL could. You think this is not suspicious?
With preparing the IS for the clans, putting out something that is the first step towards better things then SL tech, you would put out some steps in order to make it look like research is being done, verses the finished product. With this, the houses could take that tech and research it into better tech. Anyone with some real sense of logic and flow would have seen and understood these simple principles.
Why don't you actually read the books. When Phelan gets captured, as he is fighting Vlad's Timberwolf, he comes up with this when he dodges all of Vlad's shots and tags him with the Wolfhounds weapons and finds out he does NOT take out the CT armor. This shows you have not read as much as you want others to believe.
Do you have a choice in taking the risk when you DON'T have the aerofighters to even attempt to attack the warship? In every battle, there are risks you have to take. As the planets did not have a regiment of fighters on them, wasting them on the attempt is stupid. But then anyone that knows anything about strategy and tactics knows this.
Gee. We are talking about facts about jumpships and have stated in the past what book that fact was in. I guess it must have been TRO 3050, since that is beyond the time we are talking. Use that great comprehension or even reread the past posts that have it in there. So far, the great comprehension skill seems to be just throwing crap in and saying it is the way things are.
You still don't get it. You are saying canon, the developers story line, is wrong, and using your alt figures to try and prove it. Then trying to defend that action by saying the developers didn't give you the numbers that they did use, so your fake numbers are the new canon. Try something new, like stop using the alt to say canon rewrite is needed because your numbers say so. Your numbers are completely wrong in canon.
Again. Most people I know, don't worry about how logical canon is. The play the game. The things they do and come up with, are not canon, but then they do not insist that it become canon. Get the picture. They know canon as that is the basis if you want to play with another group. They do not say that since the took out WOB, that means canon needs to place them in charge of Terra, and remove WOB from the game. For the Jihad, most that I have seen remove that from their game. They do not scream since they did so, it has to be done in canon.
Present the alt without referencing and saying canon is wrong because of your story saying so.
Everyone knows canon has faults. More show up with each retcon. They need to do something as the 'history' was changed too much.
Enough of the crap.
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Requiem
09/15/21 05:40 PM
1.158.137.81
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The time frame is 3005 to 3015.
The Final supply run was 3019-3020 – so planning beings now ….implementation, however, will take time.
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Anyone with some real sense of logic and flow would have seen and understood these simple principles.
Assumptions.
First you lay the foundations for transforming as this is achievable during 4th Succession War 3028-30 as well as with the introduction of the Helm Memory Core 3028 – Rosetta Stone for advanced tech.
With the unlocking of the Memory Core you now have plausible deniability to begin increasing technology at a greater rate than it should have if the Dragoons and their allies did not begin in disseminating technology theory and products into the consumer market, in order to obtain the base technology required when it comes time to increasing military technology.
Thus by the late 30’s advanced military technology begins to resurface … and by mid 40’s you begin to see Clan level technology being constructed …
Also during this period advancements allow for the increased production in ship-yards, slipways and an increase in Jump-ship production throughout the Inner Sphere - and what should have occurred, a return of Inner Sphere Warships to the game.
Thus by the time the clans do enter the fray – Inner Sphere have their first generation Omni Mech and Aerospace Fighter programs well and truly established with production numbers being manufactured in quantity, together with Clan tech. Elite units are about 75% updated with this tech, whist regular forces are at about 25% - 50% updated.
Also, Black Box technology is far further than can would have you believe – as the FC and DC are using these devices with their ground and Naval forces.
Unfortunately, this is as about as far as the Dragoons could reach, they had run out of time.
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This shows you have not read as much as you want others to believe.
This shows I do not remember this from when it was written …
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Do you have a choice in taking the risk when you DON'T have the aerofighters to even attempt to attack the warship?
And yet in this scenario you do have the aerospace fighters available – as stated in the Regimental Combat Team TO&E
AFFS-RCT https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Inner_Sphere_Military_Structure#Regimental_Combat_Team
Regiment BattleMechs
Three Regiments Combat Vehicles
Five Regiments Infantry – including Special Forces Units – mechanized
Two Aerospace Wings
Battalion of Artillery
Battalion of Combat Engineers
Proving, therefore, a total of 40 aerospace fighters per RCT.
Continuity of information problem as one source material site states one thing and in others it states another …
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But then anyone that knows anything about strategy and tactics knows this.
Canon forgets that with the arrival of the Clans warfare shifts from Symmetric Warfare to Asymmetric Warfare.
The Clans vastly superior technology must be taken into account with regards to any strategy used.
The Warship MUST be considered a First primary Target due to a number of reasons
Command-and-Control
Reconnaissance Capabilities
Holding the high ground with the biggest WMD Guns / Missiles on the battlefield
Psychological effect its removal would have upon your forces and the enemy combatants – combat morale!
Can you imagine what it would be like to fight a battle knowing the enemy has a warship above you that can unleash Armageddon? Your own forces will not be fighting at their best whist this ship remains in orbit! Your forces Combat Morale will be lowered whist that ship is in orbit!
With its destruction this negative psychological effect will hopefully be then placed upon the enemy – with the destruction of their C-and-C – they will loose morale.
Also YOU DO NOT KNOW if they will use their main armament during the battle – can you take the risk? As in all wars previously (Historicly) from The Age of War, SLDF Reunification War, Amaris-Keresnky and Succession all commanders have used this tactic to win – so again can you really take the risk – do nothing.
Consider Major General John P. Lucas – Anzio – you need to capitalize and strike, otherwise the enemy commander can consolidate their position – with artillery positions that have a clear view of every Inner Sphere position (via orbital bombardment). By the way he was sent home for this …
So as RCTs have 40 fighters it is an even bet that your forces can get one nuke through and kill the ship (as the game rules regarding nukes must be thrown away as being completely useless) – That is unless a naval engagement can settle this …
As stated many times – give me the weapons to take on a warship or I will be forced to use nukes.
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I guess it must have been TRO 3050
Thus can we assume it is a guess as to the number?
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You still don't get it. You are saying canon, the developers story line, is wrong, and using your alt figures to try and prove it.
Heresy! Blasphemy! …. I do not think it should be Blasphemy just for contradicting TPTB … even if they did say ….. and here I should put in the Life of Brian stoning scene to demonstrate how ludicrous it is to be forced into a situation whereby no dissent is allowed – it is the belief that that this can never change, it must never change, and will never be allowed to change … even if it can be proven!
Isn’t taking this “Your numbers are completely wrong in canon.” And forcing others to adopt another’s point of view taking this a little too far? There are no numbers – thus isn’t their massive scope open for interpretation.
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but then they do not insist that it become canon
Even if they do keep asserting that they are not attempting to replace canon …
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everyone knows canon has faults. More show up with each retcon.
And yet I am not allowed to create my own version of events for my game (which is not superseding canon – it is just an alternative for those who wish to consider such an alternative) as that may offend the word of canon and all those who wish to main it?
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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ghostrider
09/15/21 07:33 PM
45.51.181.83
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If you weren't so tied up in your ego stroking, you would have read that the time frame for releasing tech was in 3005 or so. But as you seem unable to read what is typed and just add in what ever the hell you want, you continually put up false facts or try to twist it to meet your desires. I am calling you out on this.
Now. Even if they waited until 3020 to start, the fact that releasing clan tech is still beyond what the SL did, and that fact that SL tech was STILL not available to any but Comstar. So it will raise questions and strikes to gain, and prevent others from getting it.
Gee. I stated the small jumps in releasing the tech, and it was bad, yet now you decide to try and claim that was the goal in the first place. You stated to release clan tech from the start, and it was before the Helm Core was decoded. Get your statements right.
You remember all sorts of things, yet they all seem to be warped in some way or another. When confronted with the facts, you scream alt. When this is called out you scream it has nothing to do with canon by presenting the alt. Then it magically becomes the alt is the only way forward, so canon has to be rewritten. This has been the constant fact in the alt threads.
You still don't know what you are talking about, and it shows. Two Wings IS NOT an Aerofighter regiment. It is more like 2 battalions. And what scenario are you trying to say is standard for the game? As stated, most worlds do NOT have a regiment of fighters guarding them. They are lucky to have the equivalent of an air company. Which is 6 fighters. So out of 12 attacks from the Falcons only 1 was supposed to have the 2 wings. The rest far less. And your demand is they send them all after a warship. Don't worry about the forces coming in, as normal IS forces that size would take out the defenders rather easily.
And this does not account for the other enemy units in the skies with the warships. Join the military. They will set you right on what is a priority in a fight. Or maybe the rejected you as you don't seem to understand that thought.
Canon forgot that their story was wrong? That they way they wanted to present their story was wrong, as it did not follow your view?
The fact that the clans were more systematic then an IS foe, or pirate ever was is fact. The IS knows guerilla warfare. The ONLY difference in the clan fight is the tech being able to detect them as well as Comstar providing ground intel on the defenders. When Comstar didn't know what was there, the IS did far better. Hmmm. Intel on the enemy being used to good effect have influence on the outcome of a fight. Knowing they way they would retreat and blocking it would have no effect? Just the sheer shock of not facing an enemy running to cover, but standing in the distance hitting your forces at ranges that were beyond anything you seen means nothing? But again. You don't understand the game story, and read in all this crap that isn't there. The response seems to be the IS should have left their emplacements and ran straight into the oncoming forces, and died quicker. But then they should have had multiple RCTs landing the instant the enemy hit the world, because the books tell you everything you need to know, and precognition is every leaders powers.
Where is your spreadsheet when discussing topics that were already discussed? Taking jumpships and dropships might mean the actual book of that name. Now I may have confused you, as the title of the book is actual dropships and Jumpships. But anyone with any real comprehension skills would have known that. It was stated in other posts about the same damned thing. But the only other book that dealt with those ships is 3057. The lack of knowing this means you didn't even bother to look up the information.
This statement is at the very heart of what you are doing with using alt to say canon is wrong and needs to do things the way you present it.
And forcing others to adopt another’s point of view taking this a little too far?
As you did NOTHING to write the canon story, you are trying to force everyone to accept your numbers as law. The presentation of the alt has been nothing but saying canon is wrong. My numbers say they should have done this or that.
It is not that odd that your ego will not let you see the issue.
Canon is wrong. The only viable way to do anything is in the alt. A rewrite is required. The only way forward is the alt. Keep chanting that. Someday, someone else might believe it, other then you.
I do expect to get a ban for being straight forward with this one. This crap has gone on far to long.
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ghostrider
09/16/21 03:08 AM
45.51.181.83
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As of 3055, approximately 3,000 JumpShips were said to operate in the Inner Sphere[24] (up from some 2,000 in 3025[25]). However, this has been dismissed in recent publications[26] as being inadequate to meet the observed shipping of bulk goods in the Inner Sphere, and off by one or two orders of magnitude.
This is in the wiki under jumpships. For someone that does SOOOOO much research it is difficult to believe this was overlooked.
And yes. Unlike someone else, I added in something that would conflict with the numbers as it is IMPORTANT to have all the fact shown, not just what makes the statement look good.
I do admit the jump of 1000 jumpships is too many give the rates that the ships are made, but then I do think the original numbers was too low. Even 3000 sounds low. And for some reason, this wiki entry gives me the feeling of dajavu.
Regiment
Consisting of 2 to 3 Wings of airborne vehicles, including Command Flight.
I was wrong that an aerofighter regiment was always 3 wings. They changed this since I played Aerotech. They still consider the regiment at 54 fighters without command 'lances'. 40 is considered 2 wings or equal to 2 battalions.
Edited by ghostrider (09/16/21 03:13 AM)
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Cray
09/16/21 09:25 AM
136.226.19.182
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Alright, thread's locked for a cooling period. This discussion has ceased to be about the topic and more about the users.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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