ghostrider
07/16/22 12:39 PM
45.51.181.83
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Guess comprehension failed again. The ECM part of it was not the problem with the statement of the Raven. The only newest invention in centuries was. Other mechs were made in the time of the fall of the SL. So the fluff was incorrect.
Still trying to suggest Katherine was not doing so for personal power, and possible pleasure?
The examples you gave, show Victor was not doing so for gaining more power for himself, but to prevent the nation from suffering far more then it was.
Did he gain from it personally? Yes. A safe realm meant he was not having to be dealing with insurrections and such. The clans prevented him from becoming the leader that was needed. Having the clans stopped was the most important thing at the time.
It does not mean he should be promoted to deity status.
Honestly, if it meant saving millions of lives in exchange for one life, guess what is going to happen.
Katherine was a lot like Max Liao. Spending lives to increase their own ego was not even a consideration but required.
It appears you don't understand the command circuit. A series of jumpships is put in place to allow a dropship, or even a simple shuttle, to be handed off to a charge ship that will jump to the next destination. All links have such a ship, so the main down time is the passenger being moved from ship to ship. Not sure where this is a feat of magic.
As his command moves, so does the last couple of jumpships being put in place. A second jumpship is required at the end points, to avoid recharge time, or even hot loading the drives.
This is basic information. The jump calculations would already be done, so once the shuttle is onboard and secured, the jump happens.
Have you finally figured out the way the distance affects the game? And yet, still do not understand the concept of having people in position to make decisions when you can't. U.S. government being the example, the vice president can make choices while the president is away, if it is that important.
WOW! Imagine that. Someone being given the ability to do things while the leader isn't available at that time. Wait. Isn't that what a reagent does?
Actually, the idea that a third entity does not control coms on earth is wrong. Any normal phone goes thru normal commercial carrier companies to reach the other end. And it is possible, and does happen, that those very satelites get jammed from time to time. Even the underwater coms lines in the ocean are susceptible to being cut or hacked. It is why security encryption is used as well.
Yes, there are government controlled coms out there. That does not mean it is completely safe, but more secured then others.
The government would fall if the leaders were the only ones to do it all. There is not enough time in a day to order every last thing to be done by one person. Not sure why this has to be said. Most things in a government or even a company is automated, or ordered by others. Only in emergencies is the leader put into a position to deal with things, and even then, they just tell those with the knowledge in the area to fix it.
Power shortage in one area? Tell the department head to deal with it. If they need an ok to send some from elsewhere, then the leader needs to do something. Otherwise, the energy department has plans to deal with it.
The position of a CEO can be very time consuming. But for most, they have their staff dealing with most of the little crap, so they don't have to be bothered.
And yes. CEOs have purposefully harmed the companies they are running. Not often, and most get away with it, as the company tends to go under afterwards, but it happens. Money is the big reason, with plain stupidity being second.
I make 10 mil a year running a company. I will make 120 mil if the company goes under. Do I want to work for this company for 12 years to make that much? As I can work for others making the same, what incentive is there to keep here? I don't own anything, and selling stock will set off the downfall of the company. Most CEOs don't lose money when the company does. Bad negotiations set up by years of CEOs having the say in things.
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Requiem
07/16/22 09:30 PM
1.125.27.60
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Sorry but not all security forces are able to handle rebellions. If the rebellion is being supplied military grade equipment (by a 3rd party for example) the military will be required. Hence the need to judge on a case-by-case basis.
I would also like to point out that the BattleTech Universe has been at constant war for how many centuries thus the military industrial complex must be churning out weapons like candy – hence shouldn’t there be a mass proliferation of weapons?
Also as law abiding citizens how many would belong to home guard – how many worlds would have a law that every house must be equipped with military grade equipment like certain European countries? – and how many worlds have 2nd Amendment issues giving them access to virtually everything – and how many worlds have underground black market factories that churn out vast amounts of heavy weapons for the Revolution to come?
Reasons for why worlds have heavy weapons can be easily manufactured.
Also destroying a city is once again a war crime.
The problem is that once the statement “every world is an industrial island” is made where imports are for “exclusive goods” only this indicates that the world must have its own military industrial complex. If you then factor in globalization / education principles based upon House security factors then it is clear to see that these worlds would then have a quick uptick on available weapons manufacturing – over time as populations / technology increases EVERY WORLD within said House would be able to manufacture every weapons system available from Warships, Dropships, Jumpships, Space Stations, Lunar Bases, BattleMechs, Power Armour, Aerospace fighters plus every conventional weapon system available for said House ….
What this also indicates is that when dealing with high population / high technology worlds – they can also sustain a permanent military in the hundreds of conventional regiments – Hence the problem the clans arrive on these worlds and if they do no commit the majority of / all their entire Touman they are going to take a pounding – also the loss depletion report for both sides is going to be high – so the questions are where are the clans going to get replacement personnel given the small numbers obtained via a sibko system and where are their logistics to replace consumables required over even a short period of time?
Sorry to say but the games idea as to available military units is somewhat (extremely) lacking once you apply basic logic. Thus, vast navies are required to invade these worlds ….
Yes growth does mean incurring costs – however with entering new markets via a globalization strategy it can also mean that your production costs per unit decrease due to decreasing wages costs (3rd world economy countries that have high education / low wages) hence shipping jobs overseas – it also means that with access to a larger target market sales increases – what it also means is access to raw materials (hence why Tesla placed a factory in China to gain access to Rare Earth Metals) - hence increased profits overall and the reason for globalization strategies.
Have a look at the 20-year update-book – how many Regiments does the CC and the DC have in comparison to FC?
The FC can easily transfer 40 Mech Regiments for the destruction of the CC and still maintain border security with both the DC and the FWL.
Also as demonstrated within my Forum it is possible to neutralize the majority of the CC mercenaries – get MoC / DoA involved as well as certain FWL duchies … hence the carve up of CC circ. 3039 would be relatively simple.
It is quite clear that logic dictates that CC is the only viable target circa. 3039.
As for the Bugeye – miniaturization has always been a par of technological development – so can I ask when the Clans can via their weapons, that’s OK but when the Star League is able to do so via a Jump drive that is not allowed - No Really?
They knew it was foolish to invade the IS – and yet they went ahead with he plan and just like every other Clan ran out of available forces way before reaching Terra.
So let me get this straight – only the SLDF knows how to identify pirate points / has maps to them – and yet the people who remained behind for the last couple of centuries have no idea – they have just been operating these ships as a family business / military operation since the time of Star League … so really?
Isn’t this once again creating a Pax Clan scenario? How many complained with a Pax FC and yet with the Clans it is now OK?
Dropships can have all he weapons they want – the problem is hey cannot have the armour at the same time.
Dropships are all well and good when navies are small – but what happens when the Navies of the IS return to SLDF Numbers i.e. in the thousands …. The idea of armoured dropships becomes obsolete … it is just a question of time.
As for a secret base – the operative word is secret. Hence the hidden world principle.
Specifics as to Taxation is important as the taxation on all other products was dropped by the English – the only one remaining was on the importation of Indian Tea – Thus England parliament heard America’s problem and gave them most of what hey waned – and yet the young Americans wanted everything and over reacted rather than going through proper communication channels – like sending a delegation.
i.e. certain Americans wanted a war thus they picked a fight no matter the cost.
Also remember at the time America was still in the Commonwealth and as such the entire Commonwealth needs to / is supposed to pull together to solve an issue that threatens the Commonwealth (i.e. in this case the Easy India Coy.) … and yet as America has constantly adopted / demonstrated an Isolationist approach to world politics everything went pair shaped (just as it has throughout its entire history).
So Ben’s purpose is belittled because he never saw combat and was in France? Really?????
So Katherine now is what a Sadist? And yet when Victor demonstrates he is equally, if not worse that Katherine he remains as the golden child?
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The examples you gave, show Victor was not doing so for gaining more power for himself, but to prevent the nation from suffering far more then it was.
And this is exactly what Katherine was doing … keeping rogue nobles in line, via different methods, to prevent the nation from suffering under their ineptitude.
This is the problem – Katherines methods of maintaining control are difficult to understand and thus, hence, by extension evil and bad … whereas in all reality they are the perfect means of maintaining control over a self-absorbed nobility.
It meant saving billions of lives from oppression without a shot being fired and without a unit being moved to stress the point.
People should be thanking Katherine for adopting these short term pain for long term gain covert policies not condemning her!
Still did not answer the question - 2 days – how far out can you be to reach the capitol world via a command circuit as this is the maximum distance Victor is allowed to travel – also creating a command circuit how much of a disruption will this cause o normal traffic, so does Victor care he is causing problems to world commerce traffic?
(also when Katherine uses Jumpship transport as a means of keeping her Nobility in line it is evil and bad – and yet when Victor does the same thing because he needs to get home quickly to actually do the job he was born to do (Rule the empire) it is still all good and wonderful!!!!!!!
Isn’t this a bit hypocritical at this point?
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Any normal phone goes thru normal commercial carrier companies to reach the other end.
So do you know which carrier the President of The USA uses whist overseas – and what his plan is ?
Do you know how many committee meetings a president / CEO needs to attend to make the policies that directs all her/his underlings to direct them in the way they are proceed with their designated work?
Ans a very large number given all the varied groups that need to be brought together to get any project up and running.
The CEO still needs to understand all the little issues – as little issues can become big issues if not properly understood – Just remember the Housing Crisis and the Toxic Debt issue – everyone ignored the rating system and as a consequence the world ended up in a recession we did not need to have if certain CEOs had not taken their eyes off the process being utilized (that was identified by a couple of external people who became very rich because they noted the CEOs were unaware of what was going on.)
Also look into time value of money calculations …
And at the same time the law of what happens when a company goes bad and the directors can be identified as causing it …. Personal law suits / time in the clink ….
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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ghostrider
07/16/22 10:54 PM
45.51.181.83
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There is an issue with some of the logic. Even in wartorn areas, military equipment is not something every citizen should have. I say citizen, not militia or military or even security forces. And I do agree not all security forces are equipped to deal with certain threats. There are full military units that are not equipped to deal with certain threats. But on average, given the right training and proper equipment, that doesn't mean mini nukes, can handle most things. That is part of why you have a national guard to increase law enforcement when needed. Having a million man army isn't really required unless there is a known threat. As stated, this is not for border worlds.
Some nations do require some time in the military for all that can serve, with the exception of the rich and powerful. For some, it isn't required past registering for duty if needed. There seems to always be an exception.
The entire succession war is full of war crimes that were never even called out, much less prosecuted. As each nation could not really punish another, it was up to the nation that did it to do things, and in most cases those that did commit it were rewarded by their nation. One of the biggest is the Kentares Massacre.
There is a major issue with the game. All the equipment made, it seems mechs are always limited.
And industrial island is not the same thing as a military excess. You can mass produce a whole lot of things, and not produce a single military item. You might even create most of the parts for things, just not assemble in the area. This would be the case in an area that is prone to revolts. Some cases are there due to the locals not wanting the attention places get for making weapons. The factories outside of Defiance supports this notion. They make part for weapons, but not the weapons themselves.
Back on the everyone should produce weapons of mass destruction again? That can cover mechs in the game as well. You do not want everyone under the sun having access to such weapons. You talk about losing your leadership powers, having everyone produce this stuff is the quickest way to do so.
The only real need for massive navy is moving troops. Most of the worlds in the game are barely defended from invasion forces in space or even atmosphere. Ground based combat is the main fighting. This is part of why recovering warships was not a top priority until the clans showed up. As stated before, there would not be a ground game if you can't reach worlds to invade. I know defending a world without space based defenses isn't logical, but you need to land in order to fight ground combat. Necessary evil comes to mind.
Given the example, moving 40 regiments and hitting the DC with them would remove a huge chunk of the DC threat. This would allow you to take your time removing the smaller threats. It also allows you to secure those worlds better. The quick take and move on means leaving you back open to strikes from partisan units. Removing even 10 regiments from the DC would reduce their strikes on your borders, and create an issue where they have to spread out the remaining units even thinner. Once large assault, followed by several waves of assaults would deal a major blow to the DC.
As the FC could continue this for a while, the DC would be pushed back and have their forces hurting badly. Repairing units isn't that quick, and replacing lost units is that much harder, supposedly. The developers seem to go back and forth on just how many units can be made.
And again, so far only you seem to think the CC is the only logical choice.
The Bugeye was removed because it was illegal to game rules. The miniturizing of components doesn't seem to factor into the game. Warships can use the smaller jump drives, but you can't put one in a jump ship and carry more for less drive.
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ghostrider
07/16/22 11:19 PM
45.51.181.83
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Most of the clan leaders did not view the invasion as foolish. They honestly believed their own propaganda of the IS not being able to resist them. Again, the brain washing of their forces said that battles were not long running events, so you could reload in between phases. You did not have to hunt down units, as the clans surrendered a fight instead of wasting their forces most of the time. So much like playing paint ball then thinking you can go into a real battle, they were not trained properly for the IS style of battle.
As the game has pirate points relatively unknown to those living in the IS, it would appear so. As they are mainly used by criminals, and at times, the military, having a complete list isn't really needed. Going by the novels, only a small few of the current population knows where any are. Now it is possible that this information was lost during the clan civil war, or they just don't think it is necessary, they may not have bothered to look up the information. Clans move to challenge and fight, not sneak attack, at least when they first started the invasion.
The ability to shoot at an enemy and they don't have the range to shoot back, why do you really need that much armor? You have to close to engage with me, and I can keep moving back to keep the distance. You are more likely to die before getting in range. There are ships faster then others, so there is some play here, but you come at me with a ship that moves 4/6 and I have a ship that moves 4/6, I can pepper you while coasting backwards, taking shot after shot before you close to fire your shorter ranged weapons. I hit once or twice and not have to worry about you after that. If you do reach me, your little bb gun needs to hit me multiple times before you can kill me. Not so with the naval weapons. Hence, having them put on dropships before the warships were researched would have been the most logical step.
This is the reason for assault dropships like the Avenger, and Achilles.
Also when both sides have thousands, it cancels out the numbers. All those ships being similarly armed, such as naval weapons on one side, and Peashooters on the other, you are more likely to lose the Peashooters. As the longer range weapons take out the other side, that means less targets are present for those with the naval weapons. So more fire on each target.
Secret bases don't normally stay secret when you have a large flow of ships moving in and out of their area. Comstar had the advantage, as they had the ability to blank out coms about their runs.
Missing some history there. The U.S. did send delegations to England to deal with it. The crown wasn't concerned about yet another of their colonies complaining about supporting their war efforts around the world, as well as giving the rich the funds to increase their coffers.
So someone to tell others to stand up and fight, while never seeing a battle sounds like a coward. His getting France to confront the Brittish was nothing small. Just the irony of the statement is off.
Actions done for ones own pleasure is not the same as actions done to protect the masses. Katherine enjoyed hurting others that didn't agree with her. Victor did not. There were more times that Victor did not punish anyone for disagreeing with him. There are a few that did get punished. But it wasn't a pleasant, desirable thing.
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ghostrider
07/16/22 11:46 PM
45.51.181.83
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Not even close. She killed those that didn't agree with her out of spite. It had nothing to do with the nation, as they resisted others and never were killed for it. A few were starting revolts, but yet she encouraged those very ones when it suited her.
Katherine's actions were not difficult to understand. They were straight forward. Do as I say or die.
Suggesting it was noble shows just how little simple logic eludes you. The oppression was the same under Melissa as it was under Victor, because before her death Melissa was running the FC. Not much changed under Victor either. Oh yeah. He was in the field and the government fell apart, or so you would have us believe. Katherine did what she could to harm the realm to make it look like Victor did it.
It is that simple. Whether it was acceptable for nobles to do so or not, it doesn't change the facts. She did it for herself. Maybe the reason you hate Victor is because he followed his fathers foot steps and didn't go down that path.
There is no real answer to how far out the command circuit can go, as it depends on how many jumpships you can get into the circuit. Guess it would also depend on how quickly they can transfer from one ship to the other. A shuttle would be faster then a dropship. So say and hour for each leg, 48 hours in two days, but have to take some time to actually jump, I would think over 24 jumps, maybe even higher. Not sure of how far, as each jump is not consistent, as shown in another thread. Not all jumps will go a full 30 light years in a straight line.
One point you are missing here. The command circuit does not have to be in effect the entire time he is in the field. It can be set up for say once every three months or so. And there is no information on just how many of these circuits are in effect at any one time. The 4th war had several of them to send and receive orders when Comstar was interfering with things.
Might need to remember the last president of the U.S. He DID use his personal phone for government duties. So I think this is the end of that one.
It can't be that many meetings as there are CEOs that run multiple companies with the example of one saying he was CEO of about 500 or so. The president does not have to deal with all of them either. He does get briefed and sends out general orders when needed. He does NOT sit with each and every department every day. Just 10 minutes of each and there is not enough time in the day to do so. And since they do move about doing other things, it shows this concept of dealing with every department is false.
Some of those CEOs created the issues, so they could increase their profits even more without having to deal with legalities. The housing market is a big one. The energy crisis going on now is a huge one. Over 9000 land leases to put up oil rigs, and the oil companies haven't touched a single one. They are complaining they need more leases. The mortgage insurance companies filed for bankruptcy as soon at the market crashed. The billions they made charging everyone to cover this, disappeared that quickly. And the tax payers had to bail them out.
Do you know what drives inflation? Companies getting greedy, and not having to deal with consequences. Prices go up a little, yet they jack up their prices a lot, saying they have to cover for their expenses. Yet they make billions more in profits afterwards.
Profits are what is left over after everything else is paid. This includes getting the resources, processing them, sending them to market and selling them. It also includes transportation, where appicable. So their price increase is times beyond the extra they are paying to provide the product.
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Requiem
07/17/22 08:39 AM
1.125.22.21
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Though military equipment is not something every citizen should have – if easy to acquire, every citizen can gain access (for the usual reason of home defence).
Logic dictates, however, that …
Having a million man army isn’t really required unless there is a known threat – Let’s see, this is the BattleTech Universe in which your great House has been at war with your neighbouring great Houses for the past how many centuries, and in which, for the most part, these wars have been extremely violent and with a high level of damage to infrastructure – So not having a ‘million man army’ can be considered an invitation to an invasion if your world is highly populated, educated and with highly stable and economically productive.
As stated, this should be for EVERY world within your House – As each Lord has a duty to protect their world as best they can, given their available resources. – This is part of the ‘Lord / Liege contract’ a Lord has with their Liege Lord by providing them with a title and with a world to “govern” – a point that has been in existence since the dark ages.
National Service should be considered a given within the majority of Houses (if not all) given the proliferation and duration of wars within the BattleTech Universe. It is a universe built on the assumption that war will break out at any time over the most trivial of slights – and where corporations use mercenaries to remove the competition.
The entire succession war if full of war crimes that were never called out, much less prosecuted – Sorry to say but yes they were – You nuked my city on “X” world thus in retaliation I will nuke the city on your “Y” world and around and around the reprisals goes, where each Lord blames he other for starting the nuclear strikes and if they would stop you would stop. However, his never seems to occur.
This is exactly the same as in all films where the US is attacked, and the military runs through the reprisal strategies available – i.e. it is a proportionate reprisal Ms. President. So, what are your orders – Strike!
All the equipment made is limited – This is probably the biggest and darkest black hole within the game!
Once TPTB say that every world is an island until itself – where Jumpships / Dropship imports are exclusively for the elite – there is a massive problem. Then if your House introduces a Government policy of increasing education / globalization strategy of proliferation of high tech businesses then over a period of time if the world is not invaded this world will become able to manufacture every military product available – including Mechs, Power Armour, Aerospace fighters, Dropships, Jump-ships, Warships etc. as well as all conventional military products. They will also be able to create a vast number of Regiments to protect the world.
Thus the idea that there is a limited number of any weapon system becomes ludicrous – the reverse is true all houses over time are able to create vast military forces with vast transport capabilities as well as vast naval capabilities … the idea of minimal militaries can only be considered a misnomer.
The only real need for massive navy is moving troops
- except for protecting shipping routes
- protecting important worlds
- hunting for hidden worlds
- quick strike group to stop / engage a planetary invasion
- reconnaissance in force
- showing the flag
- repair ships for both civilian and military
Etc.
This is part of why recovering warships was not a top priority until the Clans showed up – and this is why TPTB need someone who can inform them when they are making a horrible wrong call based upon all available information – It is a space based game! i.e. a Space based Navy comes with the package!
The only way you don’t have one is if you have just come out of a massive war and every world and every space station etc is incredibly heavily damaged – thus every House is stuck in a rebuilding phase.
And given the statement that every world is now an island makes this point obsolete!
One large assault – except the game says that you don’t have the transport to undertake this one large assault. Where as if you take the CC 1st you gain their merchant navy (as well as their military industrial complex) and then you do have the transport (as well as additional military units) to undertake this one large assault.
Thus, the CC is the only logical choice (in my opinion).
Oh No a Bugeye is illegal! And yet it is in the book – too late once in it is in – thus it is in my Navy!
Just create your own Home Construction Rules for small ships.
And yes you can put one in a jump ship – mobile repair yards – same as in the Jihad era where they stored their drone ships.
Clan Leaders believing their own propaganda – how did that work out for Nazi forces in Russia?
Yes I agree Clans are only geared towards fighting dules in a set area – they are NOT geared to fighting an all out war IS style utilizing a combined arms approach to warfare.
Really what happens to a trinary when long tom artillery, mass LRMs, mass Armour, VTOLs and conventional fighters all unload on them simultaneously as they move into a kill box?
Can we now re-write the entire invasion due to poorly written plots? (again in my opinion)
The ability o shoot at an enemy and they don’t have the range to shoot back, why do you really need that much armour? You have to close to engage with me, and I can keep moving back to keep the distance.
There is a problem here that was never fixed by TPTB – yes you can say the ship moves at 4/6 – however, when you also can say that the ships takes only “X” days from the world to the Jump point the speed of the ship jumps to an exponential velocity. If the ship can then make micro busts of this speed based upon the same speed required to travel to the jump point a ship should be able to close the distance to practically nothing in less than one turn – and if they can unload with their complete arsenal your dropship will be praying they have more armour just before it becomes a clous of vapour and small particles of metal spinning off in all directions.
Secret bases – first you have to find them as they could be who knows how many light years distant from any habitable world. So how long did it take to find the WoB hidden base worlds – or are they still looking?
Who did the US send to the England Parliament and when?
Are you saying Ben is a coward for going to France as a Diplomat?
Katherine enjoyed hurting others – really? where is this written that she was a sadist? Or is this just personal interpretation based upon personal belief.
A few were starting revolts – where is this written?
Sorry, but it is not that simple – and yes Katherine was doing everything correctly to run her empire.
And yes, Victor is an incompetent ruler who has no place as being the ruler of an empire who continually uses people like objects in his half-baked schemes.
Command Circuit – um what is the distance on field that the shock wave damages everything close? 27 Km as per site below
Also remember time in the jump
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/JumpShip
Potemkin-class Warship jumping 30 light years with a full complement of 25 Dropships would require 375 seconds to complete a jump.
Also, can you emerge with pin-point accuracy so as to enable a very quick turn around with the shuttle? Do not think so!
Thus, the idea this can occur this quickly is reduced considerably – I would also like to say if you can move this quickly why didn’t Kerensky do so when he was told of Amaris’ actions on Terra? he could have placed a considerable army on Terra by the end of a week if this is viable – he had the ships to complete such an action. Hus making him even more incompetent than I even considered possible.
So a permanently created command circuit – how does this affect normal traffic? Afterall the arguments about how few ships there are in the IS wouldn’t this cause a strain on any Houses Jump-ship resources?
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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ghostrider
07/17/22 12:39 PM
45.51.181.83
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There is an issue with the million man army. We are not talking about guarding a single country, but and entire world. This is something the game does not deal with. Going by land masses, a million men isn't really enough to guard Asia. Without competing governments on a world, the need for them drops dramatically, so this tally is questionable. This is why security forces are the better answer. You would still have a small standing army, but with reserves and nation guard type unit to increase their number when required. Cost saving being the main reason to do so. Again, this is not for front line worlds, but the safer middle of a nation areas.
It is interesting the change of heart about guarding all a realms worlds. You had initially said all forces in one central location as well as keeping them all in one large group. Hopefully this need to try and guard all will help show why some things are done.
Given the quick strike into the FS from the DC in the 1st war, the DC committed so many war crimes, and yet never really paid for it. The same can be said about the invasion of the CC as well. Not to the same scale, but the FC forces did destroy things as they invaded. Collateral damage always occurs. Some was on purpose, and covered by collateral damage, but you will almost always have one unit do things like sack cities, and other crimes. The use of commandos will always result in some sort of crime. It is just never really stated, as ALL combatants use the same methods. Some just go beyond what is needed to get a job done.
Those trained to actually build such systems is part of the low numbers of high tech weapons is a problem. The tech is something that is limited as well. If you have the plans for a mech on every world, there is no way to keep that information from falling into enemy hands. For the game, it was the lack of things like fusion engines that kept mech production low. Yeah, this was a huge hole in the game, especially when they 'moved' away from radioactive resources needed to build them. The description of the engine says the shielding was needed to keep the pilot safe from radiation, which turns out was removed from the game.
So yes. There are major logic issues here.
How many times do you have to tell your military leaders to strike back? Do you have to sit in the office all day long saying yes, you can strike here or there? General orders is set to use prepared levels of response. Everything from make it glow, to only return fire. Each mission or fight is not necessary for the leader to tell them how to respond. You say my trusted general Warhead is in charge. And he makes the call on things. You get briefed, but don't need to be right there.
Protecting systems is an issue. Front lines require more, while the quiet middle systems, not so much. If the enemy has x amount of ships they can attack with, you don't need to have x times x to guard one system. They have to protect their own systems, so are not going to use everything they have. This is why massed fleets aren't in the game. That, and they don't want to prevent the land combat. For an invasion of any world, the majority of the ship will have to be troop transports, if you intend to take and hold the world. Supplies being needed as well, but space wise, war machines take up more space then most supplies. This is for the actual fighting units. Food and water is always going to be needed, as you can not rely on local sources in a combat situation.
With the navy size, I was thinking during an invasion to hold a world. For a nation, you will need more to just run things. So with that added, you would need a sizable navy. What constitutes a huge navy changes with each nation.
Every world is not an island. Even during the SL time, they were not even close. And if they ever were, the large realms would fall apart. Each world would require nothing to keep in part of someone elses control. The warships died out during the succession wars. Once the tech was recovered, it was not a priority, as other issues required the money and resources the project would need, so they put it on the slow burner. Even after the clans, the houses realized they were huge targets that were a waste of money. Yes, even a century after the last succession war, they were still rebuilding that damage, and had more wars of damage being done. Again the excuse of limited resources comes up, but that got old after the Helm Core find. Multiple companies would have started up to collect resources, unless the nobles and company owners stepped in to prevent this. Regulations and limited places you can actually do things like mine comes to mind.
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ghostrider
07/17/22 01:41 PM
45.51.181.83
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They changed the construction rules for Battlespace if I know right. This is why the Bugeye became illegal.
The Yardships were a retcon to the original game which did what retcons seem to do. Destroy the 'rules' that are in place, and having to introduce rules that were completely contradictory to the old ones. They could not just recall all the copies of the books that had the Bugeye in them, so they just said it is not legal.
The Jihad showed just how much the rules didn't mean much to the developers. They broke so many of their own rules to get that out, but we all seem to agree that this time frame is crap or worse.
Many people have rewritten the game story. So far, only a small few have stated that theirs is the only one that can be possible. Most offer their view on some sort of website so all can read without pushing it. As stated before, most players don't need the backstory to play the game. The dice rolls change even historical scenarios, as well as change in tactics.
So many what if's can happen in a dice game. Hanse defending NAIS during the 4th war. An ac 20 to the head could well have killed him. The thru armor crit could well have taken out any 'hero' unit when they were trying to escape or even during the opening shots of a battle. It may be historical battle, but something like that changes the story line dramatically.
So do you replay it, in order to keep it close to canon? Doubtful, though some would just to try other things.
You have two ships that move the same. With in space, you can move one direction and face another. I have a weapon that shoots 3 times yours. You have to go full thrust in order to try and close the gap quickly, while me facing you means I can not use the thrust, as the thrusters are facing away from you. Which is ok. I will still get several volleys on you before you can even get into your long range. Do you see where this is going? Law of averages, suggests I will hit you at least one with a weapon before you can properly engage. I do not have to come to you.
A land example of this would be I have an Alacorn tank, while you have a Demolisher. For you to fire, you have to be within 9 hexes. I have a range of 25. You are faster then I am, yet you will not close range for a few rounds. What are the chances that I can take you down before you can even fire? To hit rolls do have a lot to play here but then we are talking about weapons that are not instant kill without a crit.
The big issue with the supposed long tom batteries being every where is the problem. If there were so many, then normal land battles would not work assaulting any position where they reach. Even smaller artillery is not that common. Yes, another flaw in game logic, but one I can agree with. If artillery was as common as even a jeep is, then assaults on areas would fail far more often. The idea that a ship could land within their range and live long enough to unload their units, much less load them back up, would not happen. The ship would be reduced to smoldering rubble quickly. Hot dropping mechs is possible, but loading them back up requires the ship to land.
There is only so many places you can jump to within range of a jump point. Deep space has to have some things to allow the ship to come out of their jump. That is unless the developers changed that rule. So before the Jihad, 30 light years is max. It might take a while, but you can find it thru normal means. There is only so many things that fit this criteria. Yes, you can use a deep space jump to use to jump to another position. That complicates things.
The WOB crap was magic being used to create a new threat. The fact that Comstar didn't know about those worlds, nor does it seem the RoTS, which had the data from Terra. It is also unlikely those left over from WOB were never caught and interrogated, if the worlds are still hidden. Which in itself is bs. The realms would have been scouring the worlds near Terra to find them. Technological treasure trove would not allow them to ignore it. SO yeah, another logic hole.
I am saying that for someone to extoll people to stand and fight, while they never saw battle sounds like a coward. Ben did what he needed to in order to free the U.S. It just seems hypocritical. As I said earlier there are other ways to support the fight for freedom other then combat itself.
Every time she punished others for defying her wishes, she enjoyed it. The satisfaction of forcing people to bow to her helped fuel her need for power. Deity syndrome.
The Skye region is well known for starting revolts, for one. The FRR when part of the DC was another. The FWL is full of regions that were revolt areas. Even smaller worlds went into revolt, like a few Comstar started during the 4th war. It was suggested the local Comstar rep was at fault, and they moved that person to a new location. The game does not mark all of them with their own story, but does refer to them in passing.
The worlds near the CC had their gangs start revolts. They may not have been large or even popular, but they did happen.
Doing everything correctly? Is that why the huge wave of support for her crushed Victors forces? Oh wait. That didn't happen. So many units remained neutral in the civil war, as well as the population not getting that involved in it.
So no. She did not do things correctly.
Wow. Katherine used people in even worse ways, and yet you say Victor was the demon. Katherine would have done far worse if she was in charge. In fact, she did far worse when she did get control.
So say and hour for each leg, 48 hours in two days, but have to take some time to actually jump,
So again, you didn't read the response. See where I said some time to actually jump. It is there.
Travel time for the shuttle is figured in the estimate as well. Not perfectly, but it is mentioned.
So 7 minutes to jump the Potemkin.
Each space hex is 5k, so 10 minutes to transfer the shuttle is more then enough time. One minute to launch, maybe 2 minutes in flight, with another minute to land, with a little extra thrown in.
The game has constantly implied you can make a pin point jump. Fleets moving together do so, as they do not collide with each other and remain in position during the jumps. Any system with a station is easier to set up as well. The stations position is known, so you can have even more hard data to perform the jump.
Since there isn't much to suggest they can't, I will go with the can.
Really? Why didn't Kerensky use a command circuit to get a fleet of ships to Terra? A single shuttle with the jumpships waiting is one thing, but moving a fleet of ships including warships is entirely different. And if you are going to suggest Kerensky return to earth without his forces, you might as well stop talking.
Scout Jumpships can be used for a command circuit. One dropship. How do you get a considerable force on Terra with that? Think a little before responding.
And do you think Amaris wasn't looking for such a circuit?
So now you see why sending all those FS forces to the clan border was not possible? The 4th war, probably had more ships tied up in the command circuit then actually transporting troops and supplies. Also as stated, and seemed to be ignored, the circuit for Victor did not have to be constant. Simply set up once in a while. Part of why he couldn't make it back for the funeral. The circuit was not ready to go. The circuit could well have been planned for every 3 months.
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Karagin
07/17/22 07:01 PM
70.118.172.64
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See, you should be able to put a warship drive on a civilian ship, or a decommissioned warship will be sold off to someone for use as a merchant vessel at some point, or the same vessel sold to a planet as part of their attempt to keep raiders away.
Pinpoint jumps can happen; the issue becomes how long it will take to recharge and how much of a chance you have of slamming into a planet or other object in the system. Again, BT's idea of jumping into a system vastly differs from other systems. For example, WH40K has fixed jump points or gates; YET, if you are willing to use blood magic and pay a very high price, you can open portals or holes in the elliptical plain and drop in from there. Again there is risk involved, and it might not even work given what you are dealing with in that setting.
Star Wars has some things where if you don't follow the correct route into a system, you might come out of hyperspace in an asteroid belt or, worse, the middle of a star. So for that system, knowing the fixed, well-traveled routes is key, yet smugglers know that some systems have other ways in or out and can use those. Then there is Dune, and you need Spice to do the space travel thing, so that really doesn't apply. Star Trek, they just speed up or slow down as needed, now really effort there. Since we never really see them have an issue with getting a good set of coordinates to go to. I don't recall an episode that they had where they entered XYZ and ended up in the LMN system instead.
Also, each of the above has different ways once in system as where the ships come out at, BT has their ships near the local star, the others have them IN the system, either close to the planet they want to get to, or a few AU away, say at most a week of travel of time. All but BT allow warships or jumpable craft to orbit planets, whereas BT only allows Warships, and even then, that is not always a hard, fast-fixed rule.
Ships like the Bug-Eye sounded great as fluff for TPTB only, same with nukes and other uber tech items, but then players wanted to overuse them or build them in hundreds, and thus the system broke because no one who was original coming up with them thought anyone would be really wanting to use warship or ECM ships. ECM has always been a misunderstood item in the game.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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ghostrider
07/17/22 10:27 PM
45.51.181.83
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Star Wars is even more precise, as the entire fleet comes in without ever hitting another ship. The few times hyperspace was used to ram another ship was just as it was about to enter hyperspace. The one ship bouncing off the ISD in Rogue 1, and the other being the first order ship having a chunk cut off.
The recharge times and even position when using a pirate point is very important. Getting in, does not mean you will be able to get back out. Planets move. It may be a month before the moon around Terra moves back into a position to allow you to jump back out.
If discussing the command circuit, the recharge time is not important, as you are handing off a shuttle to a waiting jumpship. Only if you don't have a charged ship in the destination system does it matter. And yes. Command circuits are a huge waste of jumpships.
I have recently watched some of the videos for Star Wars the the hyper jump lanes. It explains a lot on why ships didn't jump straight to where they were going, and why reinforcements take so long to get to places. It also shows why some systems were necessary to hold, to prevent further issues.
The Bugeye was a problem, as it was smaller then most jumpships. At 6100 tons it is smaller then a few dropships. Which would make people suggest that jump drives should be on dropships as well. Land on worlds, get out far enough and jump. This destroys the need for jumpships to be honest. It also destroys the warships can't land on planets rule. The light naval ppc on it doesn't help the game much either. This is very much a pocket warship, and shows that you can put naval weapons on smaller ships. Given the fluff of a small jump signature, it is possible to jump into systems and they never knew you were there.
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Karagin
07/17/22 10:46 PM
70.118.172.64
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I am all for Jumpdrives on Dropships...but then again, I have never been a big fan of the limited jump tech BT uses since it is never held to the same standards by each author. Certain groups always get plot armor, or certain writers forget how things work in their novels to move along the story.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Karagin
07/17/22 11:11 PM
70.118.172.64
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The Bugeye made sense in that it was a specialized warship, built for a single role, espionage. It mimiced other dropships, so it could enter a system, move around like those vessels do its job of spying, and then when it needs to leave, or wait for an SLDF jumpship to come in the system, beam the information to it or move towards it as any dropship would, and then jump right before or right after the waiting jumpship thus no one knows what happens.
The whole idea is not to be noticed. Thus it's small and right there, but it's not. Is that a fishing trawler, or is it an enemy intel ship listening to coastal naval and shipping traffic and watching how ships come and go from the local naval base, or is it just a harmless trawler? The idea is not a new one; the problem was and is the rules weren't set up for the type of vessel that had been put out in TRO2750.
Now, either the Bugeye was missing a zero or two on its' final weight, and we had a typo from the start, or the weight was correct, and the fluff was correct, and the idea was to have a specialized class of warships that were VERY limited in a role and usage/availability, One that none of the Houses would admit to having and the Star League would deny as well. None of which would have made it through the fighting to take out Amaris so that it would have been a boondoggle-type vessel that was more myth and such than reality. Which is what I think they were going for. However, players being players went, " Oh, look, loophole, and the power games went crazy, " and folks like my ALT is better than canon can't seem to understand that the ship wasn't meant for widespread use. In fact, NONE of the warships were.
We hear about the PTB getting together, and we have seen videos of them on YouTube having their conversations and talking about their planning secessions and such, and I am really starting to believe that things break because some of them want their cake and to eat it as well. Egos and such get in the way.
Could the BugEye work in the game? Sure it can. Can it work as written in TRO2750? No, mot in the current version of Battletech and its current rulesets.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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ghostrider
07/17/22 11:49 PM
45.51.181.83
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The idea of having jump drives on drop ships is something that would make the game more interesting. The problem is it would be a night mare for the developers, as the limited jumpships means you can't just go from one capital to another without sticking with the vulnerable jumpships.
As dropships are not so limited in numbers that can be built, invasions are more likely to happen, and guarding jump points becomes even more of a threat. No longer do ships need to dock/undock to another ship, making them that much more vulnerable during the initial or end phases of an invasion.
It would also make communications about invasion fleets that much easier, as any ship in space that sees the invasion fleet could potentially jump out and warn others about it.
Which might actually be something to look at for a campaign. The Argo was bagged on since it could stack a second drop ship on it, imagine what dropships with jump drives would do. I like it.
The lack of resources has been found to be crap as an excuse for the limited numbers of units, something like this would completely ruin that concept. Pirate points form all over a system, can you imagine how much easier it would be to mine asteroids, then jump to a refining station in another system and not have to wait for room on the limited ships with jump drives? If done right, you could jump within a days flight to the world you wanted to, and land at the facility. No more ability to hit supply convoys near a jump point.
All worlds would need heavy defenses from ships, as this would stop the border concept. Ships could jump in basically undetected, and move deeper into enemy territory.
Granted, this becomes a nightmare for all when programmed ships like the SDS are used to send nukes to any world.
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Karagin
07/18/22 12:18 AM
70.118.172.64
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It would change the game's scope and mean that a power like the Star League would need to move forces around more to deal with any threats. The Houses must be ready for attacks all over their controlled space sectors. And it would not be easy to stop invasions.
I think it would have changed the Star League into a separate power outside of the Terran Hegemony's control and into one of its own power base itself. How that would genuinely work, well, I am not sure, but I doubt it would stand for being forced to hold itself in check to the Terran government when the Houses are breaking all the rules, etc...
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Requiem
07/18/22 08:50 AM
1.147.107.173
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Million-man army – first, you do realise that it can be made up of regulars and reservists and second, the term ‘million-man’ is just used to elucidate that it is a ‘sizeable’ military brigade (it is not that every world can and will actually field a million men – some will be more and others less – however all will be of a considerable armed force), and yes the overall size is determined based upon each worlds wealth.
However, I will say that I would postulate this principle should be for ALL WORLDS - this is the BattleTech Universe where deep strikes can occur at any time – hidden worlds should be considered a standard regularity to hold vast raiding forces – every world is an island unto itself, where the leader of your realm should have implemented a policy of education / globalization, creating a world that can manufacture all military requirements – thus turning all worlds into targets.
Sorry but it was never me who postulated to place all forces into one location – perhaps misconstrued about how to defend against the clan invasion – to win by attrition?
ALL combatants use the same methods – sorry but no, not all combatants use the same methods, some are more honourable, who stick to the rules of war.
Depends on the units commander – do they let them off their leash or holds it taught.
Then why build a military industrial complex if your scared of your enemy gaining this knowledge – they too would have an equal number of plants on every world so the point is if you remain scared all that will result in is your side loosing the war! In all reality once he statement all worlds are islands to themselves is adopted – so too every world has the ability to manufacture EVERY piece of military hardware available!
Rules of Engagement and the use of appropriate force have been drilled into all personnel during basic training and for officers and senior officers during to ensure they understand the rules / ethics behind them … Weapons Hold; Weapons Tight; and Weapons Free.
Warships
Important worlds maintain a permanent navy garrison
Others usually have a ready reaction group that can be called upon to jump at a moments notice to protect multiple worlds
Those on the front lines will also incorporate patrol vessels / reconnaissance vessels etc
Also, I highly dispute the idea that warships could ever die out – in a space warfare system it should be SOP to hide your large warship production and R&D facilities in very secure hidden systems … after all in a space opera the warship is the King of the battlefield and must be treated as such.
Every world is NOT an island – and yet I remember in one of Cray’s recent responses to us he stated as much. Thus, once stated logic dictates that everything that went before in the game is now in a massive black hole.
Not to mention that many of the dropship classes need to be re-evaluated and to be assigned to specialist roles.
Yes every navy with regards to every house should be different – all houses should also adopt their own basic design different form others based upon what they view a navy vessel to represent.
Bugeye – they may say it is illegal, yet I will keep it in my game … once the developers change the rules for themselves why should I keep to their rules? If WoB are allowed massive new R&D why cant all the houses also have massive new R&D equipment?
Artillery – why would any military purposely restrict the numbers manufactured? Also where are the ground based naval weapons to defend important cities / facilities from an orbital attack.
Logic seems o have taken a detour many times throughout the game.
She enjoyed it – sorry I did not read this when I read all the civil war books … I have a different interpretation.
In the running of her government – I still say she did everything correctly – many Lords require a firm hand to ensure they are doing their job.
She did far worse when she did get control – um, Victor started a war with the FWL, what was worse than this?
Command circuit – OK if I agree can someone still explain why Kerensky didn’t use this method to get back to Terra and Invade with a massive navy and land force asap – as this was his job after all?
All he had to do was place his ships along multiple command circuits from all Great Great Houses then transfer the best units from one ship to another then jump – really how hard would this have been? He could then order all ships to jump after they had recharged thus reinforcements can be calculated to arrive along a designated time frame to continually fight against Amaris on Terra utilizing a war of attrition approach
- How hard is it to create and execute this?
Sorry but if you can use all the forces during the 4th War then you can most definitely use all these forces and more and send them to the clan front – some with command circuits and others with normal time jumps.
This is why I still state that the IS could have created a war similar to the Italian WW2 campaign.
Yes I agree old warship ships, when decommissioned, should be retrofitted – however I would go with cruise liners if I had a choice.
Bug-eye in the hundreds – yes there should be, why? pre HPG communication can only be completed by ship – thus having small communication ships that jump from one system to the next to deliver the mail as it were must be a given when you consider the size of IS at this point in time – the question is post HPG what happened to all these ships – my bet the rich and powerful purchased many – pirates / smugglers who deliver small yet highly portable goods pinched a few, many could have ended up in naval academies and that is just a few locations that should be considered.
For me Jump Ships should be much, much, much bigger than those in the game – as the ships need to be massive in order to explain the colonization of space – sorry but the dinky toys the TPTB suggest just don’t work when colonization of planets are being completed by billions of people, animals and cargo for them all …
As for us ALT people – we recognise that this is a space opera – hence warships are mandatory not optional.
Problem – attacking a world should be incredibly difficult and it should require mass fleets with a vast number of regiments to undertake simultaneous attacks all over the planet.
Sorry but this mickey mouse version of a planetary assault just doesn’t work for me.
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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ghostrider
07/18/22 12:13 PM
45.51.181.83
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More then a few posts had no units guarding targets, and all being sent out in large numbers from a central location. But I guess that was forgotten.
The discussion seemed to end when travel time was brought up, and by the time a central location hub could get things into position, any raiders would be at a new one, or another set striking on the other side of the hub.
So not all units use explosive, or just spray shots all over? In a fire fight, there is always some collateral damage. And there will always be someone to claim war crimes. Commanders are not the only ones that can prevent their troops from doing things beyond what is necessary. This starts with each trooper, as at times, the commander is the one that orders the extra destruction. As shown in todays world, that can go up and include the leader of a nation as well.
First off, the assumption that the enemy will have as many complexes as you do is wrong. Some will have more, others less. And the numbers isn't the same thing as total output. Hundreds of small plants making several parts of a weapon isn't better then a few making the entire weapon.
So you need more forces guarding more facilities, to prevent the enemy from learning your new secret weapon, as each plant would have those plans in order to build it. It also means having to send resources to all of them, as you are not going to have them all sitting on iron, copper, cobalt, and other minerals as those ores do not form one huge deposit together.
Several larger complexes has it's own problems. A single large missile strike harms production easier then having to send multiple strikes to spread out facilities.
But in the end, the less numerous but large complexes are a bit easier to protect against sabotage and stolen data then lots of smaller ones.
Not all units are trained the same. Some will be taught to hold fire when approaching a suspected target, while others will be taught to just shoot up the target, with 'suppression' fire. Some are taught not to shoot everyone, while others are taught to shoot anyone that resists. Both real life and the game has this.
First thing is, this is not a space game. So warships should have remained dead.
Second, the use of warships is limited by how many you have.
It is very possible for warships to stop being repaired or produced. Resources and ship yards that can actually make them being heavily damaged or destroyed does this.
Most hidden things are found eventually. When they are, do you pack it up and move it? Or continue to use the facilities?
The responses given suggest you build a new one and stop using the old one.
I don't remember Cray saying anything like 'recent responses to us he stated as much. Thus, once stated logic dictates that everything that went before in the game is now in a massive black hole.'
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ghostrider
07/18/22 12:37 PM
45.51.181.83
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Each house has different dropships they produce, so they have to have a different navy then each other.
As the FS had the RCTs, they used more vehicle carrying dropships then the others. I have not heard much of the CC using vehicle dropships for assaults. They seem to be moving reinforcements. And if I recall, only the DC and CC build the Achilles. The Vengeance is limited as well.
Which make me wonder why the FS did not design a new fighter carrier to help move the fighters of the RCTs, as they only have the Leopard CV and normal space on Unions and Overlord otherwise.
Given the game has 'limited' resources, the houses focused on more mobile items of war. Yes, it is a bit stupid, but artillery positions are a bit easier to destroy, and can't be moved. Things like mounting them in the sides of hills prevents them from firing in other arcs. They are great for slow moving things, but a lance of Locusts are almost impossible to hit if they know artillery is being used. Constant course changes comes to mind. Removing and preventing building such is why raids are so common.
Victor started the war with the FWL? Did you not read where Katherine thought the idea was a good one, though poorly executed? Operation Gemini was always a risk. So are dozens of other operations going on around the IS. This one was found out because it was a plot item. It isn't like Thomas was innocent of anything against the FS/FC. And given what happened, all knew Joshua was not going to live. It was the right choice. The entire idea was to let the 'replacement' pass and tell Marik about the death. Otherwise, the entire refit packs was in danger, which meant the front lines were in danger of losing to the clans. Which is worse? You seem to suggest one child is worth the lives of every world in the path of the clans.
I did answer why Kerensky did not use a command circuit to get warships to Terra. But I guess something needs to be taught. A warship does NOT connect to normal jumpships and has to perform their own jumps. So this method is NOT applicable here. He could have used a command circuit to get some forces into a staging area near Terra, which was probably happening, but the danger of them being hit, once found out was great. Given all that was going on, the question of how many 'spare' jumpships were left that werent' conscripted by the armies.
Dpending on the jumpship type, 1 to 9 dropships per jumpship. And the type wouldn't be consistent. As I have not seen other designs beyond the Monolith, I will stop at 9. So one jump might have a monolith, while the next could only get a scout in position. So 1 dropships goes, while the other 8 wait for another ship. And when you get into the TH area, you can not allow a small force to be sent in every so often, as they will be destroyed, and Amaris would seize the jumpship to prevent another try.
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ghostrider
07/18/22 01:03 PM
45.51.181.83
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As explained with why Kerensky didn't use the command circuit to get forces to Terra quickly, the idea of a command circuit bringing in tons of forces to the clan border is similar. Each jumpship is different. What you propose is sending so many jumpships into the LC portion from the FS, and there is no return trip for them, it would destroy the FS ability to do much in their area.
The CC would definitely use this fact to start raiding at the least, to trying to retake worlds with the TC and others at worst. Until the DC showed it was focused on the clans, you could not remove forces from the DC border. And that did not mean that others in the DCMS would not strike at the FC either. Pirates would have a field day if all the forces you wanted, were moved from the FS. And as pointed out, each nation had their own military operations. The FS sent troops to guard the LC, but yet they were different commands. Nondi did not want more FS troops in the LC. It meant having to actually listen to the FS commanders as well as Hanse.
Problem with the Bugeye being used as a courier. They were a spy ship. The existence being denied. Having a new ship, or even using a scout jumpship would have been a better plan for that. Having the Bugeye exposed to being in an area would really make people nervous and even fire at the ship. It didn't exist according to the governments statements.
You do realize that colonizing worlds was not just uplifting cities worth of people and plopping them down on a new world? A few hundred would go out to start a new colony, while others filtered in with each supply run. It would take decades to get several million onto a world. Also, it is hinted that some of the ships used were grounded and used for parts once there. So a class or two of colony ships was possible where they carried large amounts of people, and were stopped being produced after a while. Imagine a Behemoth set up to transport colonists. The Monarch is a star liner.
Us alt people? You are including everyone that uses an alt.
I know for a fact, more then a few alts don't operate on the space opera theme.
This sort of statement is what causes the rehash of only viable solution statements coming back. The group I play with have several different campaigns with are all considers alts to each other. Warships are NOT the main focus. Most have a small amount, maybe 2 dozen spread among the big houses, and they are barely noticed. They guard the capital worlds and that's about it. The clans pulled their ships back as the home worlds were starting to hit the invading clans.
So no. Alt people do not consider the game a space opera.
The reason why the game does not have thousands of regiments available is to keep the game playable for small groups. You will not be able to run even company on company with large reserves or forces nearby that could influence the players battles. You are assigned to take a town. Forces are fighting around the area. You want to suggest that they stalemate each other all the time? Does the winning forces have reinforcements for your battle? Does the impossible happen, and all forces are so badly damage that HQ recalls them instead of having them help the forces on your battle field? Does this sound like a logic hole?
How often do you play with just vehicles on both sides? As most don't use vehicles as a primary unit, I would think never.
Yet for invading a world, vehicles are the most likely unit to be used. As for a space opera, the winning warships would definitely be used to bombard enemy forces. There is no retreat options for a defender, and I doubt the attacker will admit defeat if they can just blow up the enemy military forces from orbit. Yes, this is the logic that would be used.
With the games set up, it is possible to take a world without having regiments worth of assault troops. Holding one requires a lot of infantry. There is a difference.
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Karagin
07/18/22 05:48 PM
70.118.172.64
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What war with the FWL? Victor didn't start any war with anyone. Is this another case of the ALT trying to be canon? Can we stick to canon, please?
The entire FWL attack on the Fed-Com should never have happened, mainly because the fake Thomas would have known he was on the verge of being exposed and that Victor wasn't doing the exposing should have told him something. Yet, Victor attacked first?
Warships being around should not have affected the game to the point of breaking it, but the idea that everyone could have them did. I can see ComStar has a few, and, in essence, WoB has some, and when I say a few, I am talking like maybe ten or so max. The idea of the Dragoons having them...yeah, as much of a fan of them as I am, no. They should have never had them. Now the pocket battleship, aka the capital weapons armed dropship thing, yeah, I could ALL the Houses and such having those things. And some merc units like the Dragoons have them.
Same issues as above, the warships and how they move in the system are concerned. Most want to treat them as flying mechs, which is how the aerospace fighters were first shown and how it was for the warships. Yet we have how thick of a book of rules just to get a simple space battle done? They went from cool to pointless because of the overly complex rules.
Bovine excrement is the idea of things before a certain real-time or when certain Line Developers took over being a black hole. That is more of certain persons not liking things and what to removed from the game. An example would be myself finding a way to buy the game from TOPPs, (not going to happen) and retconning out the entire Jihad/Dark Age crap. Why? Because I don't like the plot/storyline and thus want it gone.
I personally have run an all-vehicle force to prove that such can bring down an all-mech force. It can, and the other person was shocked. Again, the biggest issue with this game is that many players do not know how to use the mechs, vehicles, or other units correctly. They want to play Rock'em Sock'em Robots, not a tactical wargame. The game is a a tactical wargame, not a WWE game with mechs.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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ghostrider
07/18/22 06:49 PM
45.51.181.83
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The FWL attack on the FC being caused by operation doppleganger is what Requiem is trying to use as the reason the FWL did so. Yet during this time, I did not hear of the refit kits being stopped from being made or sold to the FC. This woul d have been one of the first things to happen if it was a true retaliation. And as stated, all knew Joshua was going to die. It was only a matter of time.
It was plot armor as well. The situation for Katherine to finally make her move to take over the FC.
No matter what someone might think, the regions in the FWL would not all agree to the war. Some, maybe most, would see it as a way to remove Marik from running the FWL, and allow a new family. It is best that the other regions never got a hold of Joshua's DNA, as they would have exposed the deception. Which some how never played out. Favoritism would be what someone would cry.
The big issue with warships is one that hasn't played out yet. They are vulnerable to fighters.
Later versions started to counter this, but they are big expensive targets. They are much like the Death Star. Something to try and inspire fear, but are hard to use, as the damage they do causes all to regret building them.
If the SDS system types were not banned until the Jihad, this would have been a better concept of defending at least specific worlds. Small stations scattered around a world or the main approach, and activated only during that time. They should be left on standby with very low power, so they aren't detected.
Basic capital missile launcher satellites around a world, or in some Lagrange spots. Yes, they are ammo dependent, but you don't need the heatsinks or high power to use them. Even suicide drones full of explosive would work. But again, this is a ground combat game, so they had to be kept out.
Personally I have run vehicles with mech support. I have not completed a pure vehicle run. I tend to use non jumpers, which causes issues at times. Always seem to be one spot out from cover using them. Normally from losing initiative a few times in a row. Go for some woods, and the enemy makes it there first. Or makes it worthless.
I had tried once the pure vehicles, and the crit monster made sure that was pointless. A single LRM taking out a major tank with the first hit, then losing the second one to something similar. After losing a lance like this, I gave up.
That is not saying using mechs were always better. Head shots and losing a gyro or engine thru bad rolls have happened a little too often.
Do I say they need to be pulled? For vehicles I did. That was before I seen the new crit tables.
For mechs? No. There is always a weak spot in the best armor. It bites when it happens to you, but I have won a few tough battles with the same thing. Head hit the nastiest mech on the field, or take out a gyro while they had plenty of armor. Luck of the dice.
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Karagin
07/18/22 09:48 PM
70.118.172.64
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The game also has dropships that can't even land on planets, so they are no better than jumpships or warships. I can see armored space stations or simple weapons platforms at specific points to keep the enemy from taking complete control of a system or even a jump point. Hey, nothing says anti-ship weapon like a capital naval weapon in space in a cheap platform that can spread out on known vectors and fire till destroyed.
What new crit table for vehicles? Can you give me a book and page number, please?
Requiem is still arguing from his ALT. Victor ONLY kept Operation Dopplerganger in place because he knew his military needed the extra conversion kits and mechs. He also knew that many merc units working for the Fed-Com and the Combine were refitting from the same kits being shipped out from Marik factories. It is stated in the novels that he had plans to let the fake Thomas know Jousha had passed and was planning on doing so. It is as if Stackpole deleted or something was edited out of the novel that removed a big change from Marik attacking over the death/doppelganger part and how it was given to us in the novel. It makes one question if the editors didn't cut something and no one caught it in time...then again, this was ROC and FASA so...
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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ghostrider
07/18/22 10:12 PM
45.51.181.83
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The crit table where 1/2 the crits killed vehicles, was changed to something a little less hostile. It was talked about in another thread. I have BMR as the last rule book which still had the engine explosion, crew hit and killed, ammo explosion (crew killed) set up. The 'new' one isn't as hostile. Sorry if this made it sound like something that just came out.
The whole thing with Victor is he hates the fact that Katherine is a major villain in the game, and Victor isn't. It is yet another attempt like Kerensky not rushing in to die right after he found out Amaris killed the Camerons. It almost seems like he wants the worst characters to rule the game universe, while those fighting him are the demons and devils of the story.
I agree and have stated that Victor was going to tell Thomas about Joshua, but needed time to keep his people safe. Had he not done so, then he would be chastised for not keeping his people safe, and praising Katherine that way. This is following his posts, not speculation like he would try to argue. But sounding like the game does not point this out, confuses people into thinking the way he wants. But trying to say keep the alt out of this has an issue. It was started by him and he did it from the alt point of view. As much as he needs to put up or shut up, the topic does contain the alt.
The Behemoth is the only dropship I know of that doesn't have the thrust to get back into space if it lands. The rest are just not built to be able to, that can't. Unless I missed something.
I honestly think fighter carriers should have jump drives on them. They can't land, and would be needed far more often to defend a world then mechs or vehicles. The reason is if you can prevent anything from landing, you don't need more troops on world.
The concept of remote weapons platforms is probably a big reason why the developers don't want remote control to be in the game. It reduces the small group raiders and such.
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Karagin
07/18/22 11:29 PM
70.118.172.64
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I just checked Total Warfare, and it's not improved at all for vehicles; they are still nerfed when hit. Hell, it got worse with the Motive System Hit Damage Table. p193/194 for ground vehicles, and then they give you new charts for VTOLs on the next couple of pages. So they didn't make it any better.
I thought there were two dropships, the Behemoth and the Mammoth, that could not re-enter orbit if they landed. I need to recheck the books.
Katherine was there a foil for Victor since Phelan had Vlad; Victor had to have someone who wasn't the newly favored Combine and CapCon, since both had been beaten on in the run-up to the Clan Invasion. He can dislike it all he wants, it's not going to change things. Just like my dislike of the entire Jihad/Dark Age storyline means nothing to TPTB since they don't give a damn about what the fans want. I dare any of them to prove me wrong on that. Because if they did, certain folks would have dealt with back in the late 90s early 00s who were buddies of the TPTB at the time, but friendships and all that won out. And we all have heard about the comments made by Stackpole over the fans not being happy about the Jaguars. I could go on, but that horse has been beaten to death. He needs to get over his issue with Katherine being a villain.
Remote weapons in space would not be a game-breaking item. They would be a counter to things like warships and their overuse of them. No different than the SDS stuff. Given how I have seen the "drone" mechs used in the fiction of late, as battering rams to go after other mechs, the game is going right back into the crapper of Rock'em Smash'em Robots.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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ghostrider
07/19/22 12:31 AM
45.51.181.83
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The Behemoths thrust is the issue, though the fluff says it just can't. As the rule is minimum 3 regular thrust is needed to achieve orbit should be enough. The 3 thrust may well have been changed in later rule books, which might include Battlespace or aerotech 2. I don't have either of those books.
The Mammoth in the wiki doesn't say it can't land. But things have been changed and not updated.
All dedicated fighter carriers of the IS, as well as the Achilles can not land. No wings on the aerodyne form. This is not counting those ships that are changed over from others.
Just looked it up. The Okinawa is a spheroid fighter carrier that can land. Part of the TRO 3057 release.
Remote weapons for anti ship duty, could be an issue if warships are not in play. They can target dropships, which means not landing forces for the ground battle. It could be added that they can not target the dropships but that is pushing it a bit.
A weapon that might be interesting to be developed would be the EMP to knock out power to ships. Maybe a large missile like a Killer whale size in order to work properly. Not permanently, and with something like a warship, just a section, as they have the different power nodes. Might make warships less likely to be used, as it would help whomever uses it the chance to board it without return fire for a short while. Or even just make the ship defenseless as no return fire or defensive measures could happen on the section hit. Yeah, should be in the design section, but thought about it here, and too lazy to do it there.
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Cray
07/19/22 07:56 AM
136.226.19.182
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Quote:
The Mammoth in the wiki doesn't say it can't land. But things have been changed and not updated.
The Mammoth can land. The Behemoth's inability to land is a class-specific quirk; you could build a 100,000-ton DropShip with 3/5 thrust (or higher) that could land.
Quote:
All dedicated fighter carriers of the IS, as well as the Achilles can not land.
The Inner Sphere's Leopard CV, Titan, Gorgon, and Okinawa fighter carriers are able to land, as can the Clans' Miraborg.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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Requiem
07/19/22 09:14 AM
1.147.89.229
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… being sent out in large numbers from a central location … sorry but I don’t remember this., when discussing hub and spoke arrangements I thought I was discussing colonization from a central hub planet to those planets withing a spoke arrangement surrounding it. Though (in my opinion) this can also apply to a naval garrison complemented with multiple rapid strike squadrons.
In a fire fight there is always some collateral damage … er, no, depends on location of the ambush – i.e. in an ambush your survivability depends upon the inadequacy of your attackers.
Given the number of camera’s that are on the Battlefield you would think individual war crimes would be minimalized – i.e. gun camera, drone camera, individual soldier camera (Aliens)
Number of military industrial complexes on a world-to-world basis is dependent upon each world’s … population, education, technology base, economic level etc.
All of which will also determine the size and complexity of the military (available weapon systems) on that world.
And the distribution of the military upon that world.
I would also like to point out that given this is a space opera you would assume that ‘the majority of’ military industrial complexes would be located far below the ground.
As for sabotage, this is dependent upon each military industrial complexes security procedures – and again given that most of the Houses have been at war for hundred’s of years you would think they have the ability to create a highly effective security system and team.
Yes, I agree not all units are trained the same – dependent upon their designated role within battle.
This is not a space game … sorry but if war is conducted upon hundreds of worlds where units have to travel via space craft from A to B how can this not be a space opera? Thus Naval craft have no choice but to be included.
I don’t remember Cray saying anything like ….
Forum Title: QUESTION: The Effects of Economic Isolation on Clan Territories
Date: 10/14/21 06:21 AM
“The important remaining interstellar trade were vital, small quantity goods like ‘Mech parts. Otherwise, planets mostly stood alone.”
Q.E.D. If a planet sands alone, with no real importation, they must be totally self-sufficient for everything.
Then once you factor in a government that includes a policy of education and industrial globalization each world has the ability to manufacture a vast array of military capabilities.
Sorry to say but I find each houses Dropships capabilities – Lacking especially with regards to the Vengeance.
Artillery positions are a bit easier to destroy – not so – even during WW2 they had a security force surrounding them – now they have high mobility and are deep behind your lines – only air superiority is a danger.
Yes, I agree these slow-moving artillery pieces are thing of a by-gone age.
Where is it written that Katherine agreed with Victor that the Marik child should remain in the hospital and that a double should be used? When you read her bio it is clear that she only took advantage of the situation and never had any insight as to Victor’s actions.
So, the statement holds – Victor instituted two Wars as his crimes most terrible – one over the death of the Marik child and the second by insinuating that his sister murdered their brother …
Both of which are on his hands the blood so deep …
And yet this cannot be said of Katherine, she never instituted a wars so vial.
So who is the real villain of the story?
And yes this one child is a nexus from which great tyranny and misfortune beget the entire of the IS. If only Victor had demonstrated greater compassion as a human the IS would not be in such a mess it is in the far future. Thus demonstrating that he is quite incompetent.
As a mental exercise consider – what would change if Victor had ordered a command circuit once informed and attempted to return the child as quickly as possible – How would the IS change?
Kerensky’s Command Circuit
First the command circuit is for the most experienced military units within the SLDF (in close proximity to Terra). These will be backed up by all available warships within close proximity.
Then other units can be quickly forwarded to the front by other Command Circuits and they too can be sent in to the fray as naval reinforcements arrive for their wave upon Terra
Then this can occur again and again – and a war of attrition upon Terra can commence in which over time Amaris’ forces would succumb as they do not have the forces to continually defend against wave after wave of forces that have been quickly brought to bear by their own command circuits within all the Great Houses
It is not that hard to imagine and to execute – thus demonstrating once again Kerensky’s ineptitude.
Bug-eye – yes military variants are spy ships and like all ships they can also be civilian variants that act as couriers – it is not hard to believe that ship class can be retrofitted for both civilian and military use by their manufacturing corporation as a means of diversifying their production base to increase their target market and thus increase their profit margins.
Colonizing worlds via the principle of a few hundred is both ludicrous and imbecilic – as the number of ships required would be incredibly vast indeed – especially when you consider the vast number of materials involved, the amount of seeds required as well as the number of animals required – in close proximity to humans good luck in maintaining the health of the crew.
Sorry to say but the small dropships – they do not work when considering the question of mass exodus from Terra to the Stars.
Behemoth – Production Year 2782 – The Star League has just fallen and Blake is attempting to reconstruct Terra … just a bit late for an exodus from Terra!
So No. Alt people do not consider the game a space opera. You bemoan my statement “Us Alt People” and yet when you use an absolute also it is all correct and above board – shouldn’t the statements be ‘Some’ Alt people do not consider? As I believe in the Alt and I believe in the Space Opera …
Keep the game playable for small groups – This is still very easy to do even though the backdrop may be within a vast war – I have been in and run many a D&D campaign with this premise – I can also be done with Warhammer 40K and I would surmise with other games …
This is why I consider the game, In my opinion, far more superior when you have a game with hundreds of regiments – you could have a dozen units on the planet and you can run each separately and depending on their outcomes this could affect other battles located throughout the world ….
You could have a unit of LAMS attacking a ground based naval canon with command marines as support …
A reconnaissance unit
A main battle unit
And many others all over the world fighting simultaneously
To me this sounds far more exiting than that of one unit going up against one other unit and who ever wins gets the planet, and the people of that planet do not even care to create heir own military force to defend their world.
Quote:
What War with the FWL? Victor didn’t start any war with anyone. Is this another case of the ALT trying to be canon? Can we stick to canon, please?
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Operation_GUERRERO
so the war between the FS and the FWL and the CC over the cover up of the death of Joshua Marik by Victor is now an Alt?
and what about Victor’s call to arms over the death of his brother this too is also an Alt and never occurred?
Warships should be the exclusive property of a Government – however if a damaged ship is found and it can be rebuilt then good luck to whomever can pull it off.
They went from cool to pointless because of the overly complex rules – may I suggest looking at other games rules and perhaps incorporating hem into the game in order to simplify everything. i.e. ditching the overly complex for the less complex.
The issue with warships are they are built in too fragile a manner – they should have more turrets etc
Also small ships should only be allowed small naval weapons (very fast)
Medium ships with Md and Sm naval weapons
Heavy Ships with Hv Md and Sm naval weapons etc (not so fast)
Due to the size of the engine output ….
Overall the entice warship system should be scrapped and rewritten in my opinion, and again there needs to be something that neutralizes the nuke less they will always be glorified targets.
Question Karagin – if Victor had not initiated Operation Dopple-ganger and returned his son – would Thomas stop providing extra conversion kits and in so doing ruin the only souse of his economic resurgence within the FWL and at the same time kickstarted a recession within the FWL all because NASIS was unable to cure his son?
The answer is no he would not stop providing Kits – the FWL requires this export to maintain their bull market – if he had even attempted it Parliament would have censured him for being a twat – and he would have lost many friend’s swing voted within parliament.
What this shows is Victors complete naivete when it comes to understanding the FWL political / economic system as well as no understanding what it is to be human.
No I agree Katherine is a villain, and in a good way – and yet this is exactly what the FC realm needs when fighting the Clans. In addition she makes the story more fun. A Machiavellian character will jus add spice to the game. How many leaders in history survive longer, make their country more prosperous, by being and out and out villain to everyone?
Victor on the other hand is bland, boring and quite unrealistic – his entire character needs a major overhaul – and I would also include all his other siblings in this request …
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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Karagin
07/19/22 09:22 AM
70.118.172.64
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Yes, Remote weapons could target dropships, but a dropship is moving far faster than a warship and can change course faster. So the remote weapons platform may not be able to track as fast; that could be worked out as a to hit modifiers and such. Remember that not every system will have remote weapons platforms, and many will only have a few.
Having Jump drives on the carrier dropships like the Titan would be a boon and something that could work. You already said the trade-off is that they can not land, meaning they are only space vessels. That has advantages along with disadvantages and offers a balance.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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ghostrider
07/19/22 12:05 PM
45.51.181.83
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Haven't heard of the Gorgon. For some reason, I thought the Leopard CV wasn't able to land. The Titan was another unknown. Hmmm. It the Okinawa still the only spheroid fighter carrier?
That is something new. Saying 'All of which will also determine the size and complexity of the military (available weapon systems) on that world.' Does this mean not all weapons would be produced on each world as implied by previous responses? That mechs would not be produced on all worlds?
Well that explains why you don't understand the game and story line. You think this is Battlestar Galactica. It isn't. Suggest you take a few months and reread the entire set of books and stop inserting words into them. The game is not a space opera.
You would think there would be heavy security as well as advanced security counter measures, but the game does not do that. You can sneak into most places and look around. The best security tends to be around mechs, while people seem to have the least.
Doesn't matter where the troops are designated to be. Not all troops have the same level of training. The entire training battalion set up shows this for mech warriors. A lot of locally raised militia as not was well trained as academies, while some local militia are better trained then the mainstream military.
Self sufficient does not include making mechs, dropships, jumpships and a more then a few other things. Self sufficient is being able to survive on your own. Saying trade was changed from feeding worlds to just luxury items is not making each an island unto their own, according to your implied definition. Your statements imply that each world would be able to build anything mankind knows to be an island. Most should build rifles, but not things like a gatling gun, much less a mech sizes laser. Some would know how, but not do so.
If all worlds were totally self sufficient, than each would be like a city state, with no large organization binding them to others. That means nothing being NAP or Defense Pacts. There would not be the large realms in the IS.
It was written that she thought the idea was something that could work, but was performed badly. The plot armor exposed it. If not for that, the story would have continued on with the FC being one large unit. Which is funny, as the CC did not have any sort of DNA for both Thomas's. Otherwise, they would have found out the fake.
Katherine stole the throne from Victor while he was removing the clan threat. Then decided to kill all that did not agree with her. She even killed their mother. You are really going to try and say Victor caused the civil war?
The war with the FWL was plot armor. He did not start the war, but was pushed into it, as operation was found out. There was no malice in Victor's actions. He would have told Thomas the truth when he was sure the clans were dealt with. He was NOT replacing the Marik leadership. That is written in the books, not some supposed twist. Ignore the facts and keep putting up suppositions. It doesn't help your case.
Again, the lack of understanding the game and even normal war shows. Air is not the only threat to artillery. Artillery positions are static. You can set up mobile artillery, but they are not normally used to guard cities. Enemy units overrun artillery positions regularly. Part of why there isn't so many of them. As for guards, well there are guards around a lot of things and they don't always hold. For some forces, the destruction of the artillery is the mission, and they ignore the guards until that is done. At all costs I believe the term is.
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Karagin
07/19/22 12:32 PM
70.118.172.64
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One big issue is that many of the writers turn the "heroes" into operators, aka special forces, who can do amazing things outside of their mechs and feats that would take years of training, etc...to master.
Prime example, NO SUBSTITUTE FOR VICTORY, we have bad guys who are nothing but Clan training sbikos doing things that ONLY special forces should be doing, but for the sake of a story, off go the super soldiers to do these amazing things that mechwarriors would not normally be doing. Hijacking mechs would be special operators' jobs, not cadets or normal mechwarriors. I get it; this is a fictional universe, but let's have some realism and keep things grounded in the actual reality of common sense.
This lends to the idea that we have currently with the ALT that is being pushed as canon. The game is not space opera, it's not BSG or SW or ST. The idea of Katherine wanting control of the whole Fed-Com is made very clear, and she is not happy with only having half of it. The novels spell out she expected her sister Yvonne to simply give her the FedSuns throne and be done with it all because she (Katherine) was the older sister thus, it was her's by that right alone. I am starting to question if Reqiuem has even read the novels and the sourcebooks because, unlike the Jihad crap, the lead to up to Fed-Com Civil War was part of the main storyline and fed into the issues Victor was dealing with.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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ghostrider
07/19/22 12:40 PM
45.51.181.83
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Yeah. I guess Victor should have sent Joshua home right after Hanse died. That would have helped the FC and the entire IS defeat the clans. Good call. NOT!
As stated in the books, Joshua would never have survived the stress the jumps would put on his body. Knowing this, it WOULD be murder. Something that seems to have not really been thought out before asking this. Or maybe you skimmed over that part, 'reading' the books. Given the responses in the threads, there is a history of missing information when responding to things here.
Why send your forces piecemeal to the front lines, when your main weapons are going to take time? Bring them in all at once. Why is this so difficult to understand? There is nothing gained from sending in 2 or 3 dropships at a time, except to lose them. This may well be why the SLDF has such horrible losses in the periphery, from doing such a stupid thing. I guess the clans followed that thinking when they only sent a few forces to retake the IS.
You did not read the fluff of the Bugeye, did you? It is a spy ship. It is not a military ship, nor does it have other models It has one job and one job only. Recon of all systems assigned to it, even if it is your own systems.
As stated, the Scout jumpship would be the closest thing to a pony express/command circuit courier in canon.
Colonizing another world is NOT sending an entire nation to it immediately. Get that straight. How many cruiseliner ships were used to colonize north America? None. There were multiple smaller ships carrying people. Yes, there was native life, which changes a few parameters, but the concept of other worlds is the same. A single large cargo ship could be used to bring in the items needed to survive, such as water purifies, and farm equipment, but that also means processing fossil fuels. 20 to maybe 1000 would start construction of buildings and got the field ready to grow. Even corporate colonies would not send every last person needed for running the place. They would be sent in waves. They would be doing things as cheaply as they can. Having tens of thousands on a world to have something like crop failure, or some freak weather destroy the colony is not something they want. SO a small group gets the ball rolling, then add more as you can. Other then trying to get an argument going, what is so difficult to understand about this? Oh yeah, Space opera. Every last person is aboard space ships.
My statement: I know for a fact, more then a few alts don't operate on the space opera theme.
Your statement: You bemoan my statement “Us Alt People” and yet when you use an absolute
More proof of your not reading the statements. Your statement is an outright lie. More then a few alts is not absolutely all people with alts. If you aren't going to actually read and comprehend things you are responding to, then don't respond.
Play a different game if you want to have warships be the main focus. The game Battletech is about ground combat tactics. It includes some space, but that is not the main focus. As this is yet another attempt to just create an argument, it might be time for you to go to another game.
And I suggest Spell Jammer for your D&D space opera. I just seen an article where they have it for 5e. The advanced D&D was fun to play, but took a while to figure out.
The answer is Joshua would have died in transit. The game states that outright. That would have been murder. Given the hostilities between the houses to begin with, Thomas would never have believed the imposter would not be put on the throne. Eventually, Thomas himself would be found out, as succession questions would have demanded blood samples, and that would show Thomas was not part of the Marik family.
And yes. The refits would stop flowing until a new deal was made. It isn't like WOB was going to face off against the clans, so letting them chew on the FC and even DC so the FWL would be the leader of the IS would probably have come about.
If the leader of a realm is absolute in their power, like suggested, how would he be voted down? Also, the FWL should have been expanding their own forces, if for no other reason then to deal with the clans when they broke thru the FC, or to annex parts of the FC in order to 'save' it from clan occupation. Then strike from there adding to the annexed territories that would now be part of the FWL.
So it would be a great win for the FWL, and WOB.
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