Pht
08/07/22 12:50 AM
174.131.73.145
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Quote:
Akalabeth
I've never made the claim. But here's your proof:
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Bull_Run
Now go and jump through hoops and tell me why it doesn't count. Tell me why it makes sense for a scottish Highlander regiment to name their dropship after a southern confederate victory.
And after you've jumped through hoops. Go stow your strawman argument and start addressing things that I've actually written.
How is that proof? Proof requires you to make your conclusion necessary. Not probable, but necessary, unavoidable.
All men are mortal
Socrates is a man
Therefore, Socrates is mortal.
^^^ if you accept the premises as true, you are coerced by logic into believing what comes after the therefore. You cannot avoid it. That's what a proof is. If you don't have that force of logic, you don't have a proof.
If you can take
"BLP chose the union name for a civil war battle for a ship in his novel"
and add another premise and get a proof out of that, something like
"therefore blp puts his politics into his novels"
... I would really like to see that, because I genuinely have no idea why you would think what you posted is true.
I'm a conservative and somewhat libertarian and a bible believing christian, meaning I believe the state only has the right to punish certain kinds of moral wrongs, and praise those who do right, and not anything else - and I've been interested in and paying atttention to politics, especially on the conservative side since some time in the 1980s, AND I have read a large percentage (not exact, but somewhere from 75-90%) of the novels ...
And I did not have any idea BLP was conservative. That thought never crossed my mind once.
--------------------------
@Karagin
The person who sent they nasty email was a CGL editor, I haven't heard that he was also associated with fanatics...?
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Karagin
08/07/22 12:55 AM
70.118.172.64
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@Pht
The editor who works for FANATICS, correct?
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Pht
08/07/22 01:41 AM
174.131.73.145
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This guy:
catalystgamelabs.com/team/john-helfers
Quote:
Currently he’s the Executive Editor at Catalyst Game Labs, where he oversees the fiction lines for BattleTech and Shadowrun, publishing more than a million words of original fiction between both IPs every year.
sarna.net/wiki/John_Helfers
Is the one that sent the email calling the book after blue dawn drivel, and that has since been apologized for.
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Akalabeth
08/07/22 02:20 AM
99.199.56.239
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Quote:
A dropship named after a famous battle is your proof? HAHAHA! Wow... wow...
You realize that military vessels are named after famous battles, warriors, and such correct? So it would be impossible for them to pick a name for a ship that a member of the mercenary unit had a distant relation who fought there? Or maybe they captured the vessel and never changed the name?
Hello Bad Faith. You got here quickly I see.
He also named another highlander dropship Stonewall Jackson after a Confederate General. Clearly has a fascination with the Virginia forces that fought on the confederate side, particularly in the battle near where he lives.
He also wrote a short story called "The Heart of Dixie" for Battlecorps.
Also noticed he worked on TRO 2750, where we have guess what, the "Confederate" Dropship. Though no way to know if he actually did that one unless he lay claim to it since there were two other authors.
Quote:
You have claimed that his outside writings being right-wing in nature was the reason, and now you are trying to use the idea that a battlefield near where he lives is proof that he was bringing his politics into the game.
No, I'm not changing my claim. I made my claim about the alt-right novel. You ignored it and asked for proof in Battletech. I gave proof just to humour you, and now you're claiming I'm changing my argument or something? Don't waste my time, you're not clever enough for it.
Edited by Akalabeth (08/07/22 03:34 AM)
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Akalabeth
08/07/22 02:55 AM
99.199.56.239
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Quote:
How is that proof? Proof requires you to make your conclusion necessary. Not probable, but necessary, unavoidable.
You think Karagin cares about proof? You're fooling yourself if that's the case.
Pardoe is a conservative who lives in Virginia.
Conservatism is associated with the southern states, aka, the former-Confederate States.
He wrote a short novel "Heart of Dixie". Dixie is associated with the southern states particularly during and after the civil war.
He also wrote another short story Waylon's War, whose title may be a reference to Waylon Jennings, a country singer who often wrote songs about the civil war and was involved with the Dukes of Hazard which prominently displays a confederate army flag.
He named two scottish mercenary Dropships after confederate theme in Virginia, Stonewall Jackson, after a General, and Bull Run after two battles the Confederates won. And yes Bull Run is the union name for the battle, it's also the more popular, and the confederate name Manassas was already given to a star league warship in Living Legends.
He also wrote for TRO 2750 which has the Confederate Dropship though its unclear which entries he did.
These are references. References to events or people which happen to align with his political views. If anything it's subversive, not overt. Is there something more than that? Maybe, possibly, possibly not. I'm not going to read and write and essay about it- I don't want to waste my time.
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Karagin
08/07/22 12:15 PM
70.118.172.64
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Quote:
This guy:
catalystgamelabs.com/team/john-helfers
Quote:
Currently he’s the Executive Editor at Catalyst Game Labs, where he oversees the fiction lines for BattleTech and Shadowrun, publishing more than a million words of original fiction between both IPs every year.
sarna.net/wiki/John_Helfers
Is the one that sent the email calling the book after blue dawn drivel, and that has since been apologized for.
Thanks, from what I saw the other day he was listed as the go between for FANATICS and CGL.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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ZekeCrane
08/07/22 03:40 PM
97.85.24.48
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> rants about Confederate names in BT
Akalabeth, are you going to ask for the Rommel to be renamed as well? Maybe the Saladin for good measure?
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ghostrider
08/07/22 04:10 PM
45.51.181.83
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There are a lot of names used in game that are the same as real life. Several mechs are named after demons and devils, as well as other underworld figures. This is also true for gods as well. Someone using the name Thor, Zeus, Valkyrie and such mean they are worshipping Greek or Roman Gods?
Is the entire science board that names the objects in our solar system the same? They set it up so only certain names can be used to name new moons and such.
I hate the idea of certain politicians looking like they want to take us back to the medieval era where money means you rule and can do what you want. It also looks like they are trying to make the U.S. a country were threats and violence is the only way to live, much like multiples of countries in the world.
But unless Blaine has done something that has specifically shown he is a radical, this whole situation sounds like someone's buddy got hurt and now they are making someone else pay for it.
This does not mean there is no basis for the firing, it just means saying because someone uses names and phrases from old ideologies, does not peg the person as a lover of that idea.
I will reserve judgement until something more concrete is proven.
Also a point that needs to be said.
There are a lot of military bases and some vehicles in the U.S. army that bears names of confederate people and places. Does that mean everyone in the U.S. supports that concept? No. Some of the things are having their name changed.
I do admit, the idea that they believe the 2020 elections were stolen leads to showing his stance.
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Karagin
08/07/22 04:17 PM
70.118.172.64
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What Akalabeth did was go on a fishing expedition, and the thing is, to find something small, it had to be already looked up and bookmarked like it was pre-noted to be used if anyone asked for proof.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Cray
08/07/22 05:03 PM
71.47.208.18
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Quote:
I hate the idea of certain politicians looking like they want to take us back to the medieval era where money means you rule and can do what you want. It also looks like they are trying to make the U.S. a country were threats and violence is the only way to live
....
I do admit, the idea that they believe the 2020 elections were stolen leads to showing his stance.
I understand that Pardoe's response emphasizes politics, but Rule 3 is still applicable. If you want to dissect or debate politics, please take that to an appropriate site.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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Pht
08/07/22 05:14 PM
174.131.72.28
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Quote:
Akalabeth
Quote:
Pht
How is that proof? Proof requires you to make your conclusion necessary. Not probable, but necessary, unavoidable.
You think Karagin cares about proof? You're fooling yourself if that's the case.
I am not karagin. I asked you, he didn't. I asked for myself because I wanted to know.
Quote:
Akalabeth
Pardoe is a conservative who lives in Virginia.
Conservatism is associated with the southern states, aka, the former-Confederate States.
He wrote a short novel "Heart of Dixie". Dixie is associated with the southern states particularly during and after the civil war.
He also wrote another short story Waylon's War, whose title may be a reference to Waylon Jennings, a country singer who often wrote songs about the civil war and was involved with the Dukes of Hazard which prominently displays a confederate army flag.
He named two scottish mercenary Dropships after confederate theme in Virginia, Stonewall Jackson, after a General, and Bull Run after two battles the Confederates won. And yes Bull Run is the union name for the battle, it's also the more popular, and the confederate name Manassas was already given to a star league warship in Living Legends.
He also wrote for TRO 2750 which has the Confederate Dropship though its unclear which entries he did.
These are references. References to events or people which happen to align with his political views. If anything it's subversive, not overt. Is there something more than that? Maybe, possibly, possibly not. I'm not going to read and write and essay about it- I don't want to waste my time.
You're not even answering the question I asked.
If you meant what you posted:
Quote:
Akalabeth
Quote:
karagin
And again, show us the proof that Blaine put his personal politics into any Battletech novel; it's a simple request. Either you can prove that, or you can not.
I've never made the claim. But here's your proof:
.sarna.net/wiki/Bull_Run
That the reference to that name in that BT book is putting personal politics into the book.
IF that's too much to ask, than can you answer the shortened question: how is the act of making reference to the name of something in a novel "putting your politics" into it?
Can you answer that? The meaning of the text of your post that I quoted above is that if you refer to something, you support it.
You just made a bunch of references to confederate things and etc., should I apply what appears to be your standard to you and say you support the confederacy?
Edited by Pht (08/07/22 05:29 PM)
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Pht
08/07/22 05:32 PM
174.131.72.28
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Quote:
Quote:
I hate the idea of certain politicians looking like they want to take us back to the medieval era where money means you rule and can do what you want. It also looks like they are trying to make the U.S. a country were threats and violence is the only way to live
....
I do admit, the idea that they believe the 2020 elections were stolen leads to showing his stance.
I understand that Pardoe's response emphasizes politics, but Rule 3 is still applicable. If you want to dissect or debate politics, please take that to an appropriate site.
I guessed as much and that's why I avoided going below the surface on politics.
@Cray
Couldn't find the COC for the forums ... link?
I've gotten used to the fact that there's functionally nowhere to have open not-one-sided and civil discussion about these things, I'd really like to find something like that for BT, but I don't think it exists.
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Pht
08/07/22 05:34 PM
174.131.72.28
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Quote:
Quote:
This guy:
catalystgamelabs.com/team/john-helfers
Quote:
Currently he’s the Executive Editor at Catalyst Game Labs, where he oversees the fiction lines for BattleTech and Shadowrun, publishing more than a million words of original fiction between both IPs every year.
sarna.net/wiki/John_Helfers
Is the one that sent the email calling the book after blue dawn drivel, and that has since been apologized for.
Thanks, from what I saw the other day he was listed as the go between for FANATICS and CGL.
I hadn't head he was their go between, have to remember that. If you run across the source for that again, it'd be interesting to see.
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Karagin
08/07/22 05:53 PM
70.118.172.64
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Everything that is posted to answer my question is strawman arguments. The reaching is very clear. We have Union Class Dropship, so we can't have one call a Confederate? It is as if these "points" are prechecked and ready to throw out if someone asks.
Again, this also shows the lack of understanding of how ship classes are named. Something not likely to change. Famous people and battles are normally how the ships get their names.
And yes, I want proof, but so far, there is no proof. So what we have gotten is a poor attempt to slander Blaine, yet again.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Karagin
08/07/22 05:54 PM
70.118.172.64
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@Pht
https://www.sarna.net/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/154790/an/0/page/0#154790
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Pht
08/07/22 06:33 PM
174.131.72.28
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Quote:
Karagin
Everything that is posted to answer my question is strawman arguments. The reaching is very clear. We have Union Class Dropship, so we can't have one call a Confederate? It is as if these "points" are prechecked and ready to throw out if someone asks.
Again, this also shows the lack of understanding of how ship classes are named. Something not likely to change. Famous people and battles are normally how the ships get their names.
And yes, I want proof, but so far, there is no proof. So what we have gotten is a poor attempt to slander Blaine, yet again.
Karagin
The annoying thing to me is, I don't even care if it's a "gotcha, you were wrong" - it's good when people realize they made a mistake and try to avoid that in the future (re the proof thing), but that's not what I'm interested in.
What I really want is to understand why anyone could think making references like that amounted to exhorting others to live the way you want them to live (that's what "putting your politics in" means).
I don't know how the mere reference to the union name for a civil war battles is, in and of itself, an exhibition of "you should/shouldn't do (whatever)."
I've seen others use the same kind of reasoning (whatever it is). So i asked, so I could start to understand why anyone would or could think that way.
Thanks for the link to the COC, btw.
Edited by Pht (08/07/22 06:40 PM)
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Karagin
08/07/22 06:59 PM
70.118.172.64
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The idea that they are going to this level of nitpicking shows that they don't have a case. They are looking for anything to latch on to. Most folks who say they don't like Blaine would be saying the same thing if this had been Keiths or other authors. It's the current trend thing; thus, they want to be seen supporting it.
It's not the references; it's the current thing in politics of the day, which is a hotbed topic and one we can't talk about here since, as Cray pointed out, knowing that issue is at the core of things is going to be used to shut down any actual real conversation on the matter, thus handing the win to those who use things like a board or forums rules to their advantage on specific topics.
This goes back to my point earlier; Cray alludes to knowing more but then hides behind his NDA, those muddying the waters but allowing nothing to be said. Then we get that very poorly worded supposed Tweet from Coleman with all the glorious typos and such, which many are saying is a fake and others are saying is accurate. The whole week and a half have gone by with nothing said by them because GenCon is more important than an ongoing PR disaster.
We will see what they (CGL) say tomorrow or Tuesday if they say anything at all.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Akalabeth
08/07/22 07:39 PM
99.199.56.239
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Quote:
> rants about Confederate names in BT
Akalabeth, are you going to ask for the Rommel to be renamed as well? Maybe the Saladin for good measure?
I never asked for anything to be renamed. Not sure what you’re on about
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Akalabeth
08/07/22 07:45 PM
99.199.56.239
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Quote:
IF that's too much to ask, than can you answer the shortened question: how is the act of making reference to the name of something in a novel "putting your politics" into it?
Can you answer that? The meaning of the text of your post that I quoted above is that if you refer to something, you support it.
You just made a bunch of references to confederate things and etc., should I apply what appears to be your standard to you and say you support the confederacy?
What, you don't understand that associating your fictional heroes with real-world references implies those references are heroic by association? You don’t understand that the uncritical perpetuation of ideas is the support of those same ideas?
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Akalabeth
08/07/22 07:46 PM
99.199.56.239
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Quote:
The idea that they are going to this level of nitpicking shows that they don't have a case.
There is no public case. There is a verdict. It's been passed and the sentence given.
And you're railing against it without knowing most of the evidence.
And please stop feigning open mindedness about the case when your conduct in other regards has been compeltely closed-minded, such as my association. If you were actually open minded, and cared about the case, you would stop replying here and go and research every side of the case, Pardoe, Faith, CGL, everything. Do as Cray said and talk to other writers, etcetera. And then based on that, draw a conclusion, and if after that, you don't know enough- then draw no conclusion and move on.
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ghostrider
08/07/22 10:51 PM
45.51.181.83
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I believe the statement: What, you don't understand that associating your fictional heroes with real-world references implies those references are heroic by association?: is a bit much, and incorrect.
This concept would mean anyone using names like Adolf, Robert, Lee, and others would be categorized under this umbrella.
Ship names follow historic figures, and sometimes they are not the winning side. For some, Churchill is a bad name.
Would you think some names should be banned from every being used again? Oppenheimer helped create one of the worse weapons of war. Does this mean someone using that in a story, or naming even a pet after him means they want to use a nuke?
As I said. If they actually speak in support of the bad things, then the statement of they are associated with a bad concept works.
As I was not there, nor have direct information of what happened, I can be sure one way or the other. I do support that there are three sides to every story. Theirs, yours, and the truth. Information tends to be missing, false, or spun in a way to make someone look like a saint, while the other is a hell spawn.
Normally, both have valid points and both are not able to walk on water.
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Akalabeth
08/08/22 01:16 AM
99.199.56.239
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Quote:
I believe the statement: What, you don't understand that associating your fictional heroes with real-world references implies those references are heroic by association?: is a bit much, and incorrect.
This concept would mean anyone using names like Adolf, Robert, Lee, and others would be categorized under this umbrella.
No, it wouldn't, because on their own those names don't resonate with history. Adolph could be read into, but it's still a very common name. If the names were used in concert it's of course another matter.
Quote:
Would you think some names should be banned from every being used again?
Individuals are free to use whatever name they want. But there's little value for popular media or the public to celebrate people on the wrong side of history, some would even say it's a detriment.
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Akalabeth
08/08/22 01:36 AM
99.199.56.239
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Quote:
Again, this also shows the lack of understanding of how ship classes are named. Something not likely to change. Famous people and battles are normally how the ships get their names.
People name ships after famous people and battles that are relevant to THEM. How is the american civil war or confederate states relevant to the highlanders?
You know what's a good name for a Highlander dropship?
William Wallace
Rob Roy
Walter Scott
John Moore
Hector MacDonald
Bannockburn
Falkirk
Culloden
Stirling Bridge
Even if those ship, the Bull run and Stonewall Jackson were captured, as you suggested, they would have been renamed. Renaming captured ships is standard practice..
So what reason do the highlanders have to use those names? What Highlander characters associates with the civil war or the confederate states?
Edited by Akalabeth (08/08/22 01:38 AM)
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Pht
08/08/22 03:31 PM
174.131.72.28
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Quote:
Quote:
IF that's too much to ask, than can you answer the shortened question: how is the act of making reference to the name of something in a novel "putting your politics" into it?
Can you answer that? The meaning of the text of your post that I quoted above is that if you refer to something, you support it.
You just made a bunch of references to confederate things and etc., should I apply what appears to be your standard to you and say you support the confederacy?
What, you don't understand that associating your fictional heroes with real-world references implies those references are heroic by association? You don’t understand that the uncritical perpetuation of ideas is the support of those same ideas?
You have utterly avoided even the slightest attempt at answering what I've asked you.
It's not death to admit you don't know something on the internet, or that you did something wrong. Sometimes it even makes you look better.
----------------------------------------------------------
Last I checked, the ship "bull run" is not a hero in the novel. Beyond that, even if he named a hero in one of his books "nathan bedford forrest" that would not perpetuate the idea that nbf was a hero.
You have to presume (for no good reason) that the only answer to "why did you name them that" is "you're trying to lionize the person/thing referred to by the name."
This is basic relational due-process, aka how to not treat people like crap for no good reason. It would be wrong if I did it to you, it would be wrong if you did it to anyone else. In the absence of evidence, we don't just guess. You have to ask "why," or you're just presuming. Which is where proofs come in, and if you can't prove it, you don't act like you have.
I also very highly doubt you apply the standard you are using equally everywhere it applies; because as a standard it is destructive.
EDIT: This:
Quote:
Pht
What I really want is to understand why anyone could think making references like that amounted to exhorting others to live the way you want them to live (that's what "putting your politics in" means).
I don't know how the mere reference to the union name for a civil war battles is, in and of itself, an exhibition of "you should/shouldn't do (whatever)."
I've seen others use the same kind of reasoning (whatever it is). So i asked, so I could start to understand why anyone would or could think that way.
Was not a lark. I really do want to know these things.
Edited by Pht (08/08/22 03:35 PM)
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Akalabeth
08/08/22 03:54 PM
64.251.81.66
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Quote:
Quote:
What, you don't understand that associating your fictional heroes with real-world references implies those references are heroic by association? You don’t understand that the uncritical perpetuation of ideas is the support of those same ideas?
You have utterly avoided even the slightest attempt at answering what I've asked you.
----------------------------------------------------------
Last I checked, the ship "bull run" is not a hero in the novel. Beyond that, even if he named a hero in one of his books "nathan bedford forrest" that would not perpetuate the idea that nbf was a hero.
Thank you for condemning yourself so completely as a bad faith actor.
Saves me time.
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Pht
08/08/22 04:14 PM
174.131.72.28
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
What, you don't understand that associating your fictional heroes with real-world references implies those references are heroic by association? You don’t understand that the uncritical perpetuation of ideas is the support of those same ideas?
You have utterly avoided even the slightest attempt at answering what I've asked you.
----------------------------------------------------------
Last I checked, the ship "bull run" is not a hero in the novel. Beyond that, even if he named a hero in one of his books "nathan bedford forrest" that would not perpetuate the idea that nbf was a hero.
Thank you for condemning yourself so completely as a bad faith actor.
Saves me time.
So you are refusing to answer the question, and now you're lying about me for no good reason.
Somehow, I'm a "bad faith actor" when I want to know why you said something and why you think that way and I have been trying to get an honest answer.
I suspect you can't think of a good answer to any of the things I have asked and the only thing you could come up with is "call him names." "bad faith actor" is supposed to be a magic phrase to make me shut up and go away.
Edit: will you shoot the thread down by doing stuff you know will get it closed if you don't get me to shut up?
Edit 2: Yes, I noticed that you left off more than half my post in your quote, and the half you left off contained the reason why I said what I said.
Quote:
Bad faith refers to dishonesty or fraud in a transaction. Depending on the exact setting, bad faith may mean a dishonest belief or purpose, untrustworthy performance of duties, neglect of fair dealing standards, or a fraudulent intent.
^^^ I've said exactly why I was asking you these things. More than once now. There is nothing in the content of my posts that evidences anything otherwise. Youv'e just called me either a liar, a deciever, or both - for (as far as I can tell) not agreeing with your idea that the only reason you can pick a name for a hero or a thing in your story is if you want to lionize the thing the name came from.
Edited by Pht (08/08/22 04:23 PM)
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Akalabeth
08/08/22 04:40 PM
64.251.81.66
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Quote:
Somehow, I'm a "bad faith actor" when I want to know why you said something and why you think that way and I have been trying to get an honest answer.
No, you're not trying to get an honest answer.
You claiming that I'm not answering the question while also saying nonsense like this:
Quote:
even if he named a hero in one of his books "nathan bedford forrest" that would not perpetuate the idea that nbf was a hero
If there's a super bad guy from history and you write a story where your hero has the same name as super bad guy, then guess what, you're saying the guy in real life is a hero.
That's why an author who names characters or things from the real world and then bad mouths them in their story can be sued for libel. Because the law understands that that the story isn't just a story, it imparts meaning on things in the world. The reverse is also true.
That's also why war movies that show perspectives from the "wrong" side of history, movies like Stalingrad, The Desert Fox, Das Boot, have the protagonist(s) die in the end. Because they're not "heroes" in the story and the story doesn't want to imply it. These stories don't even use real names, the characters are all completely fictional, but even as generic wrong-side-of-history soldier they still die.
But when your character wins, succeeds, lives to fight another day- gets their happily ever after, they're on the right side of the story then they're heroes. And any real world references associated with them are also implied to be good, right or heroic.
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Pht
08/08/22 05:16 PM
174.131.72.28
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Quote:
AkalabethQuote:
Pht
Somehow, I'm a "bad faith actor" when I want to know why you said something and why you think that way and I have been trying to get an honest answer.
No, you're not trying to get an honest answer.
You cannot prove that and you can't even quote from my posts to show evidence for that. You're just assuming it and using it as a smear.
Quote:
Akalabeth
You claiming that I'm not answering the question...
Yes, I'm claiming you're not answering my questions because you're not.
Quote:
Akalabeth
...while also saying nonsense like this:Quote:
Pht
even if he named a hero in one of his books "nathan bedford forrest" that would not perpetuate the idea that nbf was a hero
If there's a super bad guy from history and you write a story where your hero has the same name as super bad guy, then guess what, you're saying the guy in real life is a hero.
I get that you believe that. I don't. Because that is not the only reason you can choose a name.
Quote:
Akalabeth
That's why an author who names characters or things from the real world and then bad mouths them in their story can be sued for libel. Because the law understands that that the story isn't just a story, it imparts meaning on things in the world. The reverse is also true.
That's also why war movies that show perspectives from the wrong side of history, movies like Stalingrad, The Desert Fox, Das Boot, have the protagonist all DIE in the end. Because they're not "heroes".
... and in that law suit they have to prove exactly what I've been asking you about: why the jury or judge should believe the thing and the person are connected in that way. Meaning (exactly) that they aren't allowed to assume the WHY of why the person chose that name. The entire reason there is a court case is because just that point needs to be examined to find out the reason for the choice of that association/name.
Quote:
Akalabeth
Not sure why I even need to explain this. Oh wait, yes I do know why-
And now, negative insinuations, for no good reason.
Edited by Pht (08/08/22 05:18 PM)
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Akalabeth
08/08/22 05:27 PM
64.251.81.66
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I get that you believe that. I don't. Because that is not the only reason you can choose a name.
Wow, great argument: 'I don't agree because of some reasons I don't mention'.
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.. and in that law suit they have to prove exactly what I've been asking you about: why the jury or judge should believe the thing and the person are connected in that way. Meaning (exactly) that they aren't allowed to assume the WHY of why the person chose that name. The entire reason there is a court case is because just that point needs to be examined to find out the reason for the choice of that association/name.
Completely wrong.
"In libel cases, the burden of proof lies with the defendant (the author or publisher, in writing-example terms) and not the plaintiff. In other words, you must prove that what you write is true. The person you’ve targeted does not have to prove that you’re wrong. This is because libel laws are meant to compensate people for damage done to their reputations — they’re not meant to punish someone for lying."
https://jerichowriters.com/libel-law-for-writers-and-authors-what-you-need-to-know/
If you use the full, proper name for a thing, you wouldn't need to prove they're connected because it's already obvious. The only time you'd likely need to prove that one was related to the other is that if the name was changed, but other aspects of the character or event were still highly recognizable to the average viewer.
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Akalabeth
08/08/22 05:57 PM
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In france a novelist was successfully sued just for saying in the story that one of his poorly-depicted female characters looked like a real person.
https://www.writerswrite.com/scarlett-johansson-wins-libel-case-70720141
In America, the law would of course be different, but giving a character the immediately recognizable name of someone famous and not making the story a parody- the connection is there and the potential for a lawsuit is there. If nothing else they can sue you for using their likeness (name) without permission.
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