Karagin
08/08/22 06:01 PM
70.118.172.64
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Seems like we are back to square one. They have to bring the level of dislike against Blaine, and by reach, I mean dig so deep and then create issues where there are none. This also sounds like someone directed Akalabeth to these entries and such because the majority of readers don't put the same level of recognition on things.
CGL has given themselves a PR nightmare with their poor handling of this; thus, they will have to deal with the fallout.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Akalabeth
08/08/22 06:11 PM
64.251.81.66
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Quote:
This also sounds like someone directed Akalabeth to these entries and such because the majority of readers don't put the same level of recognition on things.
Oh am I part of a conspiracy now? Oh goodie! I've never been a conspirator before. Who's my puppet master?
But nah, sorry to disappoint, I'm talking about it here because it's the only place you CAN talk about it. Pretty sure that on the official forums and reddit it's forbidden at the moment.
Which makes me question how you're assessing this story as a "PR nightmare". Where exactly is your evidence in support of that? Disallowing discussion doesn't prove public sentiment one way or the other.
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Pht
08/08/22 07:45 PM
98.22.104.129
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Quote:
Seems like we are back to square one. They have to bring the level of dislike against Blaine, and by reach, I mean dig so deep and then create issues where there are none. This also sounds like someone directed Akalabeth to these entries and such because the majority of readers don't put the same level of recognition on things.
CGL has given themselves a PR nightmare with their poor handling of this; thus, they will have to deal with the fallout.
No conspiracy or direction is needed. People who think alke about a thing will act like with no outside interaction.
I just got done looking for any response or update on this mess and came up snakeyes.
Edited by Pht (08/08/22 07:46 PM)
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Pht
08/08/22 08:01 PM
98.22.104.129
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Quote:
Akalabeth
Which makes me question how you're assessing this story as a "PR nightmare". Where exactly is your evidence in support of that? Disallowing discussion doesn't prove public sentiment one way or the other.
I can't speak for him but I will speak for myself. Given the evidence that I have been able to find, CGL fired BLP for no good reason at all - because he was being attacked by people on the internet. "Make the complainers go away."
Nothing that I have seen comes remotely close to reasons to fire people. Yes, I've seen the picture of allegedly his tweets, and they aren't fireable offenses; And at least one of the screencaps looks like it was either assembled or otherwise positioned and cropped to be falsely attributing something to him, if not two of them.
Specifically, the one about the shoe sale and the other one about the vp.
EDIT: Still waiting to hear the other side of the story and looking to see if it's PR or open and honest, and most importantly, verifiable.
Edited by Pht (08/08/22 08:04 PM)
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Karagin
08/08/22 09:04 PM
70.118.172.64
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Quote:
Quote:
Seems like we are back to square one. They have to bring the level of dislike against Blaine, and by reach, I mean dig so deep and then create issues where there are none. This also sounds like someone directed Akalabeth to these entries and such because the majority of readers don't put the same level of recognition on things.
CGL has given themselves a PR nightmare with their poor handling of this; thus, they will have to deal with the fallout.
No conspiracy or direction is needed. People who think alke about a thing will act like with no outside interaction.
I just got done looking for any response or update on this mess and came up snakeyes.
I, too, have seen nothing from them on this. Again the less they deal with, the more the issue feasters.
Not saying anything about conspiracies, just saying that it's odd how far down the rabbit hole they have gone to dig up things that have no context unless one applies the context of the "made-up" persona was pushing to them. Which, in this case, has been done so,
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Karagin
08/08/22 09:11 PM
70.118.172.64
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Quote:
I can't speak for him but I will speak for myself. Given the evidence that I have been able to find, CGL fired BLP for no good reason at all - because he was being attacked by people on the internet. "Make the complainers go away."
Nothing that I have seen comes remotely close to reasons to fire people. Yes, I've seen the picture of allegedly his tweets, and they aren't fireable offenses; And at least one of the screencaps looks like it was either assembled or otherwise positioned and cropped to be falsely attributing something to him, if not two of them.
Specifically, the one about the shoe sale and the other one about the vp.
EDIT: Still waiting to hear the other side of the story and looking to see if it's PR or open and honest, and most importantly, verifiable.
[/qoute]
We have seen what many have said is a fake tweet from Coleman since it can be found on his Twitter feed or even deleted from said feed, so that is playing badly for them. One has to wonder if they are claiming to be professional, that Loren would put up something rife with typos and such to start with.
Then to allow this drop right before GenCon, and then nothing for the last week from them on the matter nor anything today is showing that they are either not concerned with the fans, or they believe it will blow over and so aren't going to be bothered to be honest and upfront with their fan base. Either way, it's terrible PR and shows that they are more worried about themselves than anyone working for them who isn't part of the inner circle, and even then, that circle might be really small in number. Mileage will vary.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Akalabeth
08/08/22 10:39 PM
64.251.81.66
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Quote:
Quote:
Akalabeth
Which makes me question how you're assessing this story as a "PR nightmare". Where exactly is your evidence in support of that? Disallowing discussion doesn't prove public sentiment one way or the other.
I can't speak for him but I will speak for myself.
I don't want you to speak for yourself, I want evidence that there is large, widespread dissent in the online player community against this decision. Hence "Public Relations Nightmare"
Because if it's just a few who disagree, it's not a nightmare. It's a blip on the radar.
All I've seen is a few people speaking support and against it on reddit, here and MWO. There are also voices of support on his blog and youtube interview, but those are captive audiences already and negative comments are likely deleted so they're not a useful measure. I have not seen universal or near universal dissent with the decision, if anything the majority of people are in favour 2:1. I have also not seen review bombing of their products on amazon, kickstarter or BGG either.
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Cray
08/09/22 10:16 AM
136.226.19.182
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Folks, is this discussion going anywhere constructive? You've locked yourself into "for" and "against" camps, and now discussion is sliding toward violating posting rules.
Perhaps you could find something else to talk about, like review or post some 'Mech designs.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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Karagin
08/09/22 10:28 AM
70.118.172.64
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Odd how I pointed that out, Cray, that this is what we would have given that CGL already picked a side when they fired Blaine. Yet, you are right. We are divided on this,
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Pht
08/11/22 12:19 AM
98.21.88.138
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Quote:
Akalabeth
I don't want you to speak for yourself, I want evidence that there is large, widespread dissent in the online player community against this decision. Hence "Public Relations Nightmare"
Because if it's just a few who disagree, it's not a nightmare. It's a blip on the radar.
All I've seen is a few people speaking support and against it on reddit, here and MWO. There are also voices of support on his blog and youtube interview, but those are captive audiences already and negative comments are likely deleted so they're not a useful measure. I have not seen universal or near universal dissent with the decision, if anything the majority of people are in favour 2:1. I have also not seen review bombing of their products on amazon, kickstarter or BGG either.
When I say this is a PR nightmare, I'm saying it because based off the evidence we have, cgl has done some incredibly dirty underhanded stuff. It's some borderline nightmare level stuff.
*If* it turns out to be true, or if we are never given any more meaningful evidence, I don't see how in good conscience I (or others) can support cgl. People will obviously do whatever they do, but counting noses is rarely a worthwhile way to determine things.
Quote:
Cray
Folks, is this discussion going anywhere constructive? You've locked yourself into "for" and "against" camps, and now discussion is sliding toward violating posting rules.
Perhaps you could find something else to talk about, like review or post some 'Mech designs.
That's why I left the thread for a day or so and I don't see much reason to come back until we get the other side of the story in some useful way.
Last thing I want is to have one of the few places this can be discussed among others with shared interest in BT to get clamped shut.
Frankly CGL needs to have a finger poked in their eye with the accompanying exhortation "this stays there till you release the rest of the story and squash the pr spin reflexes." If things work the way they usually do in life, it would be stupid for me to hold my breath and wait. 
Edited by Pht (08/11/22 12:20 AM)
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Patooka
08/15/22 05:40 AM
220.253.249.228
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Frankly CGL needs to have a finger poked in their eye with the accompanying exhortation "this stays there till you release the rest of the story"
Any company with more than 10 employees seeks legal advice before terminating someone. The advice is the same - do not disclose the reasons the person was fired. It opens up a company to some very damaging lawsuits if they do.
You and I are not entitled to know the full story behind this and we never will know. Considering how quickly Pardoe had a response published and interviews lined up once he got the sack suggests to me that he knew it was coming and knew the reason why. He also knew companies never elaborate publicly on the reasons for the separation so he could get away with saying whatever he wants. Your predictable reply to this will be "Well how do you know?", and I don't - not with absolute certainty. It's definitely the smart way to bet. FOX News never refuted Bill O'Reilly's claims as to why he was sacked either. Pardoe's manner of being fired and his subsequent public tantrum is far from unique.
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Karagin
08/15/22 09:40 AM
70.118.172.64
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And it's not normal for a company to put out a press release before a major convention and then go dark on the matter doing everything to avoid talking about it. And you are correct. We will never know the whole thing because CGL will not be adult enough to come forth with it. That is what folks who bully and attack others count on. They count on companies being more worried about PR and saving face than doing the right thing.
Based on your wording Patooka, it seems that you are not in favor of Blaine defending himself against things, and the use of the word tantrums is key there. I have seen him jumping up and down, what I have seen is him presenting things. Far more than what we have seen CGL do.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Pht
08/15/22 06:11 PM
98.20.185.65
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Quote:
Patooka
Quote:
Pht
Frankly CGL needs to have a finger poked in their eye with the accompanying exhortation "this stays there till you release the rest of the story"
Any company with more than 10 employees seeks legal advice before terminating someone. The advice is the same - do not disclose the reasons the person was fired. It opens up a company to some very damaging lawsuits if they do.
You and I are not entitled to know the full story behind this and we never will know.
I am aware of the fact that lawyers usually manage to take bad situations and make them worse, that's why I finished the sentence you quoted with "and squash the pr spin reflexes.""
Yes, besides the "lawyers screw up everything" effect ... when you did something wrong, if you admit it, you're going to get in trouble. There's nothing new about that.
What's missing: information needed to understand the truth about the situation. People can just do anything they want, and if they don't get crushed, they "got away" with it ...? Is that what we are supposed to strive for? (not saying you meant or want that)
And if they (CGL) didn't do anything wrong? Well great, they're getting treated wrongly. They're going to take some pain either way. They can go the coward's way and say nothing to anybody, and me and people like me who look at what happened will be pissed with them(based on what we know, that fits a social trope that happens again and again).
Quote:
Patooka
Considering how quickly Pardoe had a response published and interviews lined up once he got the sack suggests to me that he knew it was coming and knew the reason why. He also knew companies never elaborate publicly on the reasons for the separation so he could get away with saying whatever he wants. Your predictable reply to this will be "Well how do you know?", and I don't - not with absolute certainty. It's definitely the smart way to bet. FOX News never refuted Bill O'Reilly's claims as to why he was sacked either. Pardoe's manner of being fired and his subsequent public tantrum is far from unique.
You came close, but missed by a few inches.
My reply is: you can't know that; you're guessing.
If we're going to go the route of taking an educated guess: this stuff has been going on for ~6 months. He's self-admittedly been around conservative politics since the 90s, meaning he knows in these things conservatives overwhelmingly get the short end of the stick (deserved or not) and therefore believed he could wind up cancelled. At this point the process is a worn out trope; it's not surprising at all to see someone expect it to happen to them. It's like living during the inquisition and a dominican and some muscle show up and knock on your door. You know what follows that.
"Tantrum" - that's just well poisoning which only holds water if we knew what happened to BLP was deserved or otherwise was appropriate to the situation, and as you yourself have said - we haven't been told CGL's side of the story.
The point is: CGL is going to take some pain regardless. They can take pain for hiding and being quiet or they can take pain for telling the truth - telling the truth is something all sides but the lawyers want.
The tribal back and forth is all well and good, but this situation is borked. We have one side of the story. We don't have the other. It's wrong to try and make people not ask by saying "you're not entitled to know."
Edited by Pht (08/15/22 06:15 PM)
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