Courtesy of Eldoniousrex
“And the last of the salvageable materials can be viewed here,” Technician Warner motioned to the bottom of the datapad held by Star Captain Bijon Tseng. As the XO of the Second Tyr Assault Cluster, administrative matters such as battlefield recovery and salvage fell to him. The battle for Karston had been well-fought, with the Second Tyr just managing to fight off the invading Hell’s Horses’ Ninth Horde.
With the Horses departed, it was Bijon’s duty to assess the spoils of war. However, he was deeply confused with the report given to him by his chief technician. “Why are there no identifiers for these lines here? They represent many tons of our salvage.”
“They are not identified because we do not know what they are,” Technician Warner replied with a shrug.
“I seem to recall the Horses fielding a new type of combat unit. I did not fight one personally, but our MechWarriors said it was a Quad ‘Mech of some sort, quiaff?”
“That is open to debate, Star Captain,” Warner replied. “Come see for yourself.”
The two walked around several piles of detached ‘Mech limbs and scorched OmniPods until finally coming upon a collection of blasted salvage. The remains clearly had the outline of a BattleMech despite the dangling myomer bundles and cratered armor, but its shape was unlike anything Tseng had ever seen. The legs especially seemed bulkier than necessary, and were those… treads?
Tseng stood there for several moments before turning to Warner. “What in the Great Bear is this monstrosity?”
“Unknown, sir,” Warner took the datapad and brought up a brief assessment that summarized what the salvage techs had learned thus far. “We know that it is some sort of BattleMech thanks to the myomers, but the existence of functional tank treads leads us to believe that it has two modes of locomotion.”
“Two modes?” Tseng brought his head up from the datapad. “I am aware of Land-Air ‘Mechs, but with those, the inefficiency of the conversion equipment is at least offset by the massive tactical advantage of flight. Why would the Horses make the same sacrifice to simply travel overland differently?”
Warner shrugged again. “Hell’s Horses do love their tanks. Perhaps they thought it was a useful backup if they lost their gyro?”
“This thing has a gyro, quineg?”
“Aff sir, see for yourself.” Warner deftly hopped up a jagged piece of half-melted armor while Tseng followed behind more carefully.
Arriving at the blown-out turret-like ‘torso’ of the machine, Tseng noted the tell-tale shards of metal thrown off a catastrophically destabilized gyroscope, but something else caught his eye. “Why are there two cockpits? If this is a ‘Mech, would the two neurosignals not compete?”
“That will require further investigation from our scientists, Star Captain.”
“Aff, it will. Perhaps this explains why some of our MechWarriors described these things as moving erratically,” Tseng said. “I am surprised whoever was piloting this machine did not immediately lose their lunch.”
Warner coughed and pointed at a stain on one of the command couches that did not appear to be blood or sweat. Thankfully, the only detectable odors were the acrid smell of carbonized metal, but Tseng could imagine how terrible it would have been to have thrown up in his neurohelmet before an hours-long trial. “Why would the Horses do this to themselves?”
Warner shrugged a third time. “Only the Great Bear knows.”
Cyllaros History
Clan Hell’s Horses can ascribe much of their success to a longstanding tradition of combined arms that traces its heritage back to the original Star League. However, the advent of the Cyllaros (and indeed, all QuadVees) was such a baffling development to the rest of the Inner Sphere that it remains solely a quirk of the Hell’s Horses touman.
The concept of a convertible BattleMech is nothing new. Land-Air ‘Mechs had existed for centuries, and although technically complex, it certainly remained within the technical means of the Clans to produce. However, Clan culture emphasized specialization, with very few warriors ever going beyond a single vehicle type throughout their careers.
Hell’s Horses culture is markedly different among the Clans, with many warriors encouraged to dabble in different vehicles during training to better understand combined-arms operations. Many potential warriors retest in different roles should they fail their initial Trial of Position. This appreciation for weapons systems other than the almighty BattleMech is perhaps why the Cyllaros was first proposed by Hell’s Horses scientists.
Cyllaros by maggiweber
Intended to combine the best qualities of a standard tracked vehicle and a Quad ‘Mech, the Cyllaros can essentially transform from a tank to a ‘Mech whenever it suits the pilot. Besides being able to pick the best motive option for the terrain, the dual redundancy means that a damaged gyro or track is no longer a mobility kill against the Cyllaros.
However, this slight improvement in resiliency is questionable in light of what the Cyllaros sacrifices. The conversion equipment itself weighs six tons, and carrying treads while in Quad ‘Mech mode is an additional 5.5 tons of dead weight that could have been used for additional speed, armor, or weapons. Whatever resilience gained by having redundant mobility options certainly does not mitigate the lack of armor protecting the Cyllaros’ internal components, leaving both systems vulnerable to incoming fire.
Worse yet is the two-person crew—a pilot and a gunner. This shared responsibility requires significant training to ensure both crewmembers work in sync, with communication being key to determining firing solutions while on the move. Early models made communication especially difficult by separating the two command couches with a metal divider, although this was rectified in later models.
Cyllaros by maggiweber
Pilot survivability was another mark against the Cyllaros thanks to a total lack of an ejection system. The non-standard cockpit design prevented Horse technicians from installing existing ejection seats, so Horse technicians elected to have Cyllaros pilots scurry from open hatches should the QuadVee suffer catastrophic damage. CASE protects the internal ammo bays, but it was almost impossible for the pilots to quickly exit the Cyllaros due to its height, unlike its purely vehicular cousins.
The final mark against the Cyllaros was its terrible readiness ratings. Its unique design meant that most of the Cyllaros‘ components were nonstandard and could not be replaced using existing parts from either BattleMechs, OmniMechs, or armored vehicles. The Cyllaros‘ laser heat sinks are a prime example of how the QuadVee quickly becomes a logistical nightmare.
One notable (and dubious) benefit of the Cyllaros falling between the categories of ‘Mech and a tank relates specifically to Clan bidding rules. A slightly unscrupulous commander could bid 10 Cyllaros as a single Star of “tanks,” only for those apparent vehicles to transform into Quad ‘Mechs during a Trial.
Cyllaros by maggiweber
This did not occur during the Cyllaros’ first combat deployment, however. During a Trial of Possession on the planet Derf in 3136, the Horses bid a full Binary including a Star of QuadVees—two of which were Cyarllos. As is often the case with new designs, the QuadVees all fared relatively poorly, with four of the five ‘Mechs being destroyed. The single surviving Cyllaros managed to get one kill against a damaged Jade Falcon Cougar. Had it not been for this sole success, it’s rumored the Horses would have scrapped the entire QuadVee program.
The Cyllaros would not see combat again until 3138 when it was deployed with Epsilon Galaxy to take former Clan Wolf holdings. Then in full production with years of training for its crews, the Cyllaros fared adequately against the Wolves. Epsilon was then tasked with invading the Rasalhague Dominion where its shortcomings became more apparent. As it stands, the Horses have deployed the Cyllaros to fill out second-line and garrison Galaxies.
Because of the weight-expensive conversion equipment, the Cyllaros is generally considered to be under-armored and under-gunned compared to either a true ‘Mech or a tank of the same size—55 tons. With just 7.5 tons of ferro-fibrous armor, the Cyllaros is unable to withstand a prolonged firefight. A single LRM-15, twin Improved Heavy Medium Lasers, and two AP Gauss Rifles often leave the Cyllaros outgunned against even light OmniMechs, which are also usually faster than the QuadVee’s 86 kph. ECM provides some additional protection, but it’s hardly enough to overcome the Cyllaros‘ many shortcomings.
Cyllaros as it appears in RogueTech
In the ilClan Era, QuadVees such as the Cyllaros are only seen in the Hell’s Horses touman. Although the design is known to other Clans and a few Inner Sphere nations, none have attempted their own take on the concept, and for good reason. QuadVees are woefully inefficient, offering little benefit over a standard Quad ‘Mech or tank. One could even call the Cyllaros a waste of resources if one were willing to risk a Trial of Grievance from a Hell’s Horses commander.
And as always, MechWarriors: Stay Syrupy.
At no point do you actually say why this is the worst Quadvee of the lot. It’s not amazing (or even close to good inside of the Clan tech base), but it’s still better than the Arion. Half the article is fluff, 45% is regurgitating the TRO entry, and the rest is telling us the MUL entry. At least try to fulfill the premise of your clickbaity headlines for these things, man. Explain how it’s not useful as compared to comparable Clan mechs, or even mechs lighter than it, rather than goading us to look at commissioned art and read your fanfic.
Likely the Cyllaros was chosen because it was the first production-ready QuadVee. They’re all pretty terrible.
The Notos is fairly good, but its advantages are more at the strategic level which is rarely played. It gets a speed boost for being wheeled, and an additional increase on pavement. That makes it good for shutting between battlefields.
Sure, if you ignore the parts of the article that mention the downsides of wasting weight on conversion equipment and crew fatality rates, and the two paragraphs where it outlines the logical inference that the statistical offerings are also poor and how the concept’s stagnation implies its failure.
Oh boy, really!? Aren’t you able to put one and one together?
Spending 11,5 tons for this type of conversion mode nullifies all benefits you may gain from it. That’s the short story!
In detail there are benefits like already mentioned:
– remaining operational after one or even two Gyro-Hits by changing into Tankmode (although this is doubtful at best! If adding more armor to it instead of the Treads and conversion equipment endurability would be much better….)
– 360° Turret-Torso ability (this is a nice one)
– two men cockpit (similar benefits as the superheavy Tripod-designs)
But all this pales in comparison of the disadvantages you get:
– woefully under armed and gunned
– Hangarqueen due to non Standard parts (you can’t use spare parts from Mechs or Tanks)
– logistical nightmare….
– other than negating the Gyro-Hits it gains no terrain advantages in Treads over bipedal movement
And light (Clan)Mechs will either outrun or outgun it. Even a Cougar has a fair Chance ro tear it apart.
Well, then it would’ve been better to write a general “Why QuadVees Suck” article than to single out the Cyllaros. This is another case IMO where the badness resides in the Quirks. If those aren’t used then the Cyllaros, like all other QuadVees, gains many of the benefits of both quad ‘Mechs and vehicles in standard tabletop play, albeit at a heavy cost in the weight of the conversion equipment.
Considering when QuadVees were introduced, it may be worth considering how (or even IF) QuadVees fit into the Horses’ original formulation of the Mongol Doctrine, which they were trying to restore after it had been corrupted by Malvina.
Ahora dilo sin llorar y que un adulto te lo explique
Now say it without crying and have an adult explain it to you.
Was there ANY reason for you to couch the handful of useful critiques here in such pointlessly insulting language?
I’d Trial of Civility you, but I doubt you’ve got anything to bid…
I love the concept but am disappointed by the execution.
A “transforming” mini would be pretty dang cool to have
The Nature Documentary caption on the art was an excellent choice
QuadVees overall are pretty bad, although I’ll admit the wheeled variant might have some use when working with vehicle stars or withinin garrison duties. Being able to take advantage of roads for transport, then switch over to mech mode in order to bypass rough areas is decent. Vehicles being faster on the road may lead to pure vehicle stars being able to move faster with QuadVee support. Of course that offers no benefit in combat, but from a strategic point of view it has a few uses for light cavalry.
Otherwise motive crits are so common on vehicles that I don’t see the point of strapping wheels to mechs. You’re more likely to see the wheels become useless than you are a gyro. Quads aren’t super great armour-wise as is, and adding extra unnecessary weight won’t help once combat starts. Even with the extra speed granted by wheels, I suspect that using a faster and lighter mech would still leave you with more guns on field at a lower cost.
Quadvees, within the game rules are actually pretty stellar. Good bv to armor ratio, ability to hide behind lol 1 hills, can ignore gyro hits, 360 torso twist, second pilot if first goes black…..
Notos and boreas are fine. Harpagos and cyllaros are meh, arion awful, but they had to start somewhere.
I think Quadvees do have some potential, it’s just they’ve been saddled with pretty poor loadouts so far. They’re definitely superior to vehicles, and I’d argue they’re also superior to quad mechs due to the whole torso functioning as a turret.
I do agree that wheels seem to be the way to go, mainly for that extra speed on roads. One thing I want to try with a quadvee is hardened armor. I think the -1 to walk would only apply to the mech mode, making the vehicle mode more useful.
Vehicles provide walls of armour and weapons for cheap. You pay for that with high chance of motive crits and explosions. Vehicles are at their best when they’re focused on being cost-effective; the Cyllaros only outperforms very expensive XL-engined vehicles IMO but even then it can’t carry that vehicle’s weapon loadout. Its biggest advantage over vehicles is that it can equip DHS. Its worst is that it has to track heat, including the usually free ballistic/missile weapons on vehicles. Overall I can only see QuadVees making sense with energy-heavy loadouts.
Quad vs QuadVee I’m more ambivalent about. Quads can still go prone and get back up easily so it gains the defensive advantage of a QV, but IMO quads give up too much armour/weapons over a standard Battlemech, so going all in on specialization might be a better trade.
I did a speedy-boi build a couple days ago when this article came out: near full armour, an imp heavy large laser and 2xERML, 8/12 movement in mech mode before super charger. 45 ton wheeled. It doesn’t sound like much but it could make for an extremely fast striker in urban and open environments. Even then a couple hover tanks may still be superior.
Hover tanks are absolutely frightening in Battletech when used as Harassers / Flankers.
THe only real problem with them (or any vehicle) is of course the limited terrain types. On jungle / water worlds they would be even better.
In most terrain types tracked is the best as it allows travel over rocks and through forest. Though as a transforming companion it doesn’t offer much improvement over a Battlemech in my opinion. Real waste of engineering / planning.
One thing to note is that a physical attack against a quadvee in vehicle mode will always roll on the punch table, meaning it has a 1 in 6 chance of hitting the head.
It does look really cute, tho! Kinda reminds me of a maned wolf in Mech form, and I get the impression of its transformation looking kinda like a prairie dog popping up to check things out.
Robot Jox called, its lawyers can finally have a response to “you stole your warrior eugenics program from Battletech” by saying “yeah but Battletech stole our terrible transforming robot tank idea”
Other than that this isn’t worth an opinion.
Is this really a Mech?
As much as any of the Land-Air ‘Mechs or non-transforming Quad ‘Mechs are also ‘Mechs, regardless of any statistical qualities of the designs involved.
Revisiting Battletech after 20 years of not reading novels, playing the game etc., what once was interesting is now spread thin like a paste across years of… neglect is the best term. Seeing the social justice crowd move in for the kill is sad but inevitable in a “final chapter” kind of way.
If anything LAMs need to be revisited by separating Aerospace fighters entirely from Mechs instead of crude stand-ins with exactly the same weapons, hex ranges etc. – very terrible mistake.
I hear Aerospace is getting a re-visit? Needs to have its own rules entirely and not just Battlemechs-in-space. Speaking of Robot Jox.
LAMs are just as good as any mech… if used in their intended role. LAMs are not front line fighters. They are scouts, guerrilla fighters, and LRM/Artillery spotters. Put TAG and whatever level of ECM you can on it, and watch it dance around the battlefield bringing artillery pain to the enemy.
I’ve never even HEARD of this Mech(?) until now! Does it and the other Quad_Vees even QUALIFY AS Mechs? Land-Air Mechs at least got their starts with actual Mechs, and are still my fave Mech concept of all time! But Quad-Vees? I’m still trying to figure out their advantages that they have, if any, and WHY the Hell’s Horses would even HAVE them: they favor everything else BUT Mechs for the most part! BUT, the Quad-Vees ARE unique; Land-Air Mechs have usually multiple minis to play with on the game board: do Quad_Vees have that too? I’ve never even played with, let alone SEE Quad-Vees minis until now!
Their main advantage is that during batchalls, 2 vehicles count as even against a single mech. Being a QuadVee, Hell’s Horses can claim they’re vehicles and deploy up to 10 of them vs 5 standard Mechs. Being actual Mechs, however, QuadVees are less crit-prone (motive especially) and can use double heatsinks. For that they carry less armour and weapons than either mechs or vehicles. So while they’re less likely to be crippled by lucky shots, you pay for it by being a lot weaker.
Overall I don’t think most Clanners would dispute that 2 QuadVees equal 1 other mech. They underperform enough that they need numerical advantage to b do anything. And being just as expensive as a normal mech, no other Clan would concern themselves with such an inefficient technology.
Tracked Quadvees don’t really get much advantage over quadmechs or tanks.. they get free torso turrets compared to quads (and the entire torso is a turret and not just one side), and by transformign they gain some mobility through terrain that tracked tanks lack. they only really make sense as part of quadvee technology development.
the wheeled Quadvees have a lot more advantages.. not only the torso twist and expended terrain mobility, but in vehicle mode wheeled quadvees get the wheeled suspension factor, giving them greater ground speed over their quadmech mode. the official designs haven’t really taken advantage of this much yet, but that gives them a stronger niche as cavalry and scouts, since they can gain faster movement much quicker than a regualr mech.. and have much better durability than a normal wheeled tank.
whenever they start deploying hover-quadvees, they’ll have a solid niche as fast movers.
Heavy Gear Loyalists have infilitated.
Im a word, YUCK. Bad Mech indeed. But it is also a vehicle. So only half-bad? Anyhow, my only like for the quad-vees is the dual gauss armed one. And it suffers a lack of ammunition. Just a flawed concept all around.
People crack jokes about Clans Nova Cat and Goliath Scorpion getting high all the time, but they never came up with this kind of nonsense…
Anybody out there see or hear of the Japanese live-action mecha movie, and manga adaption, GUNHED? Great visuals, and the sentient piloted mecha of the movie/manga title could transform into a tank that looks a LOT like Quad-Vees do but it’s a more conventional two-legged mecha than what Quad-Vees are!
Was this it? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWjBPIbJMzY
Such a weird idea for a ‘Mech.
I’m biased towards transforming robots as a concept–I blame the 80s–but even I have to concede that the QuadVees are a solution trying very hard to look for a problem to solve. Sadly I don’t think even the Clantech saves it from the same issue that dogs the Land-Air Mechs: there’s just not a specific use case where the QuadVee excels where all others will fall short.
Well, the use case for the LAM is quick planetary raids. You can send them in with externally mounted fuel tanks to attack lightly defended targets, and then you can exfil with their internal fuel. You do that several times, and the enemy is forced to deploy a lot of troops to defend soft targets.
I had actually thought about mentioning exactly that; the few times I’ve used LAMs on the table was as raiders. Get in, transform, grab the objective, and get out while the rest of the team keeps the defenders tied up.
I like to imagine some shrieking bureaucrat being exfiltrated by a Phoenix Hawk LAM as cargo rather than a passenger.
There’s more conversion equipment in a Quad-Vee than in a Land-Air Mech! Does the ability to transform give the Quad-Vee any, if at all, advantages? I mean the Land-Air Mech has the advantage of being flight-mobile, “able to travel vast distances and land anywhere” as well as take-off anywhere, according to the original 3025 technical readout, that is! I’ll bet Clanners as well as Spheroids both scratch their heads when they face a Quad-Vee, wondering, “What IS this thing?”
I think we need to take a moment to appreciate the splendor of Eldonius Rex’ art for this one. I love it.
The very notion of a herd of grazing Hetzers is wonderful, and they look so cuuuute. :)
Sure, QuadVees may not be that good, but they’re just so cool like LAMs and an interesting take on transforming mecha.
I want to one day try using one.
I love this month’s illustration and the caption.
I also love that the predator the Cyllaros has transformed to evade is a Stalker. As much lostech lipstick as you put on that particular laser-pig, the Stalker should belong in a museum by the time the first Cyllaros rolls off the production line, but I know which one I’d pick in a straight-up fight.
Never heard of this one before but I kind of already adore the design just because it reminds me of one of those absurd boss vehicles you’d see in a Metal Slug game. Shame it’s a lemon.
Doesn’t having TWO warriors piloting a Quad-Vee go against Clan ideology and rules? Look at the Evil Twin debacle with Land-Air Mechs with the Jade Falcons on the Smoke Jaguar homeworld of Huntress: those mechs had two pilots each and that was a disaster in combat: the crew of a vehicle, such as a tank in the real world, have to work together in synch to be effective!
Clan ideology posed two roadblocks for LAM dual crew: 1) each of two pilots wanted to be a leader, 2) two pilots trained in different branches (mech and ASF) and Clans say “specialize” so they hardly can help or even understand each other (which also why they didn’t try putting just one guy). Maybe Ghost Bears could deal with these issues (they do practice retraining people who fail one branch, and their “family” offers better cooperation between pilots) but they never tried.
In case of Hell’s Horses, they are already used to multiple people crewing one vehicle and so don’t have problem with one of them being the lead, and they forgoe “specialization” in favor of training with different types of vehicles. Helps that both modes are land based.
Quadmechs are great! By the rules, they are allowed to fit into 50-ton Light Vehicle Bays instead of full-size 150-ton Mech Bays.
If you ever needed a shitty Leopard to poop out from 12 to 18 *technically* BattleMechs, there you go.
Personally I think the Quad-Vees could have been done a LOT better! If you want a transforming Mech that’s right up the Hell’s Horses alley, try the classic Spartas Variable Hovertank from Robotech: The Southern Cross/Robotech Masters! Three modes, an open(!)-to-the-air cockpit in it’s first two modes, which is just asking for trouble for the poor pilot! What more can you ask, right? AND even better, it doesn’t so(dare I say it?)silly?
Look so silly, meant to say, sorry! Not to mention all gangly-looking!
Craig, I just saw your GUNHED clip; yeah, that was it: to be honest, the Manga comic was better art-wise than the live action movie! Thanks for the clip!
The biggest problem with Quad-Vees is that in ANY mode they stick out like a sore thumb as a NICE JUICY TARGET for enemy gunners! The Stalker in question doesn’t even NEED to use it’s weapons: all it has to do is stomp on it and game over for the Quad-vee!
Although I think when it comes to shock-and-awe Quad-Vees do have a value in that area! You’re engaging what you THINK are maybe tanks, but then they reconfigure/transform into quad mechs and you’re like “what the…..?” That could be valuable in combat! What do you think?
If only the Clans could get more armament on these designs, then Quad-Vees COULD be a danger on the battlefield, but they spend the tonnage on just getting the things to MOVE, let alone reconfigure/transform!