Courtesy of Eldoniousrex
“Ma’am? There’s a call for you,” said the inflight attendant as he offered a small headset. Dhriti Puri had only just sat down aboard the Princess-class luxury liner Endless Self-Indulgence. She was honestly surprised it had taken the idiots at Vinning Engineering and Salvage Team this long to interrupt her vacation.
Dhriti held her breath so she could audibly sigh into the headset microphone after placing it on her head. “This had better be important. I’m off the clock.”
“Dhriti? It’s Benson,” the audio quality was poor—likely due to the electromagnetic interference in VEST’s lab—but Dhriti could still make out the panic in the man’s voice. “We’ve got a problem. The Grand Titan, it… the numbers just don’t add up. Can you get back to the lab? Please?”
“No,” Dhriti said with dramatic emphasis. “Anyway, the DropShip is in final checks. I couldn’t get off even if I wanted to, which I most certainly do not. I’m on vacation—heading to Canopus IV for a month of sun, fun, and…” Dhriti trailed off as she remembered the carnal delights that overtook Canopus every June. “…more fun.”
“You don’t understand, ma’am—the engine! We’ve never dealt with anything of this size before. It’s overloading every actuator we try!” In the background, Dhriti heard the telltale squeal of an actuator stressed past its tolerances followed by the bang of an electrical discharge. Her audio cut out before Benson returned, “—and if we can’t figure out why the chassis keeps collapsing, Earthwerks will terminate our contract.”
Dhriti rubbed the bridge of her nose and looked around the passenger deck. As a luxury liner heading from Solaris to one of the Sphere’s premiere vacation destinations, the Endless Self-Indulgence was packed with upper-class elites who probably didn’t want to hear an engineer argue with her underlings just before a month-long vacation.
“Did you remove the Streak-SRM launchers?” Dhriti asked, hoping her rising annoyance didn’t transfer through the connection. She needn’t have worried.
“The what?!” Benson shouted over the sound of an explosion, and then Dhriti heard a muted cry to get the fire extinguishers.
“The Streak launchers. I did leave you a memo before I left.” Dhriti reached into her bag for her noteputer to double-check that she had indeed left that very important memo, and was relieved to see it in her ‘sent’ box. “They were overburdening the chassis.”
“Um, no, I don’t think we did—” another explosion “—I said put those fires out! Sorry, not you, ma’am.”
“Of course,” Dhriti replied sweetly, hoping to placate the increasingly irritated passengers nearby. “And the missile bays were overloaded without any cellular storage to protect the pilot.”
“Yes, we’re dealing with that now,” Benson replied over the roar of flames that were becoming worryingly loud.
“Very good. Then all you need to do is take off the launchers, remove some excess missiles, and then install the cellular ammo bays.” Dhriti shot a nasty look at a child who’d crept in to see what all the fuss was about. “I’ll check it all over in a month when I get back.”
“Yes ma’am,” Benson sounded defeated. Dhriti couldn’t tell whether it was because of the cold finality in her voice or because he was about to die in a fire. “Are you sure you can’t—”
“Very sure,” Dhriti said over the cacophony of warning klaxons at VEST labs. “Goodbye, see you in a month.”
Dhriti terminated the call and sighed again, handing the headset to a passing attendant. She then reached into her bag to pull out a Grand Titan plush toy, holding a rainbow flag (VEST’s marketing department was always early in producing promotional materials), and handed it to the curious boy. He snatched it up and scurried away with a delighted shriek as the DropShip captain informed all passengers to prepare for liftoff.
Narration courtesy of BungleTech
Grand Titan History
Rare is a BattleMech’s birth completely without incident. As one would expect from the famously eccentric Vinning Engineering and Salvage Team, the Grand Titan‘s birth was more eventful than most.
As the follow-up to VEST’s wildly successful Jackal, the Grand Titan was the company’s first foray into assault-class BattleMechs with the wildly ambitious goal of being able to defeat all opponents—both Inner Sphere and Clan. To meet this objective, the engineers at VEST envisioned a 100-ton assault ‘Mech armed with then state-of-the-art weaponry and equipment, powered by the largest ‘Mech-scale fusion engine known to man.
Problems arose almost immediately as VEST technicians struggled to calibrate the massive 400 LTV Extralight engine chosen to power the machine. Although initially presented as a wholly unique design, it would later be revealed that VEST engineers had used blueprints for a prototype Star League design to accelerate the Grand Titan‘s development. Unfortunately, the original Titan (as the Star League had called it) was never designed to fit such a large engine, leading to cascading failures from power management to actuator overstress.
Of particular note during the Grand Titan‘s early development was how initial prototypes were so overladen that engineers were forced to strip nearly ten tons of weapons and munitions. In attempting to utilize every new technology available, the Grand Titan was slotted with several Streak missile launchers, although even then engineers must have known they’d overtax the ‘Mech’s chassis as none of the launchers had onboard ammo bays. Once those launchers were removed alongside several tons of ammunition for the Grand Titan‘s remaining launchers, the chassis passed certification.
VEST’s clearly rushed development of the Grand Titan did eventually produce a functioning prototype that was deadly enough to defeat an Atlas after a staged 10-minute battle. The footage was used in promotional materials that would lead to a contract with Earthwerks Incorporated. Mass production saw the design sold to every major House military, but the Grand Titan‘s phenomenal price tag—three times that of the AS7-D Atlas it had defeated—meant that only the most successful mercenary units could afford it.
The production model T-IT-N10M Grand Titan came armed with Diverse Optics-branded two large pulse lasers in the right arm, one medium pulse laser in each shoulder, and two small pulse lasers firing aft to protect the ‘Mech’s rear ark. This was supplemented by a Holly LRM-15 launcher in the right arm and two Holly SRM-6 launchers in the chest, all of which were augmented with Artemis IV fire control. A McArthur anti-missile system mounted centrally protected the ‘Mech from missiles and enhanced its overall endurance.
Certainly impressive when the Grand Titan rolled off Earthwerks assembly lines in 3054, combat testing revealed several flaws. Although the 18 tons of standard armor was substantial, the Grand Titan‘s oversized engine meant penetration of either side torso could inflict critical damage to the reactor shielding and institute an emergency shutdown. The Grand Titan‘s 12 double heat sinks also proved woefully insufficient when enemies closed range; pilots were forced to stagger their fire or risk an equally problematic heat-induced shutdown.
But most curious was the Grand Titan‘s complete lack of Cellular Ammunition Storage Equipment, a pilot-saving technology that was quickly becoming standard across the Inner Sphere. This strange omission (likely due to the ‘Mech’s rushed development) meant that the Grand Titan was often reserved for high-ranking officers assigned far from the front lines.
As new technology arrived, Earthwerks upgraded the Grand Titan to keep pace. The T-IT-N11M leveraged the Light Gauss Rifle and ER PPC for extended-range punch. Four medium pulse lasers and two four-pack Streak SRM launchers provided offense at short range, although the same 12 double heat sinks again prevented the Grand Titan from repeatedly unleashing its full firepower. A Guardian ECM protects from emerging electronic threats at the cost of the anti-missile system.
The only other model produced by Earthwerks was the Dark Age refit, the T-IT-N13M. This variant of the Grand Titan emphasized overall survivability. The cockpit, actuators, gyro, and engine all had reinforced armor, while the heavy-duty gyro could withstand significantly more abuse than standard models. Triple Strength Myomer propelled the N13M at the same speed as the base model once it reached a certain heat threshold, which was easily achieved thanks to an array of lasers and a Heavy PPC.
A final Grand Titan refit is only whispered in hushed tones. Developed by the Principality of Regulus during the dark days of the Jihad, the T-IT-N14R also emphasized protection, but only because of its nuclear payload. A Thumper Artillery Piece launched tactical nuclear warheads, which meant that the pilot was often uncomfortably close to ground zero. Armored components, Hardened Armor, and a Full-Head Ejection System gave the pilot some hope of surviving its own blast radius. All known models were confirmed scrapped, although rumors of Word of Blake sleeper cells armed with such terrifying weapons persist even to this day.
In the modern era, the Grand Titan is primarily seen in the FWLM and several periphery nations; its exorbitant price and difficult maintenance make it a hangar queen. Still, Earthwerks continues to produce this visually striking ‘Mech in limited quantity for the Free Worlds League and any mercenary outfit that can afford it.
And as always, MechWarriors: Stay Syrupy.
Okay Sean, I admit it. You and Eldonius got me square in the dark comedy funny bone with this week’s pic. The reasonably accurate Autobots helped that part. Even got the wound more or less right.
One small correction. The 11M Grand Titan has 16 DHS, which is more then enough for most fights. It and the 13 redeem the 10, but a ilClan era version with Clan Large Pulse , more DHS, and those god awful rear firing small pulse lasers removed and replaced with CASE II would be awesome.
no machine wasting that many tons on a mech sword redeems anything.
Vurtual twin of Grand Titan – Lyran’s Berserker, waves to you with paddle hatchet.
Even without taking into account how overweight it was at that point, the OS SSRM-2s were a stupid idea. Two OS SSRM-2s way exactly as much as two SSRM-2s plus a ton of ammo. Reading this entry when I first got TRO: 3055 had me seriously questioning my reading comprehension, because I couldn’t believe they’d actually put out a design that dumb.
You’re thinking of the original printing. It’s since been retconned into something slightly less terrible. The Sarna entry has this in the notes at the bottom.
“In the original printing of Technical Readout: 3055, the Grand Titan design statistics had numerous errors that made it overweight. Besides component weight corrections, missile ammunition was reduced and a Streak SRM2 (One-Shot) launcher was removed from each arm. These OS launchers are depicted in the original artwork with the pods still present in the Technical Readout: 3055 Upgrade artwork, though with missile ports essentially removed.”
Yeah, I wasn’t clear enough. I got TRO: 3055 when it first came out. I was referring to how Sean incorporated the out of universe errors into the article as problems with the prototype, as well as talking about my initial reaction back in ’92. The fact that that level of fail didn’t get spotted at any point during the making of the book is just mind-boggling to me.
Blaine Pardoe claimed he designed it by hand on a business trip at FASA’s request, and was promised it would be checked by someone else before being used. It was not.
It’s crap. Pure and simple. A 100-ton pile of walking garbage. So why do I love it? Because if you can win with it, your opponent feels that much more shame. Mwahahahaha!!!!
This is easily the worst bad mech article put up. The grand titan is not bad, it is decidedly mid… which sucks given its price tag. I am sorry, but runs hot and has XL engine rules out half of the IS mechs made between 3050 and 3070. There are literally dozens of assault mechs I would be more disappointed to get from a roll on a RAT.
And why are you ham fistedly throwing a very not subtle pride flag in? This whole article just feels like you don’t have anything of substance to give anymore.
It’s Pride month. Cope and seethe.
Celebrate Men’s mental health month instead!
Jeeebus, it bothers me how bad yall are at reading. I am not expressing frustration that they do pride. They suck at incorporating it.
Also, the mech is not bad. That was the point of my post.
In truth, the Grand Titan is not much different from the AS7-D it defeated in that promotional test fight.
Both of them are dedicated infighters with a single long-range shot. The key differences are that :
1) the GT doesn’t have a single Big Gun O’ Doom, its hits are smaller and more spread out. The twin LPLs are basically the substitute for the Atlas’ AC/20. Less concentrated damage, but more likely to hit the target.
2) the Atlas has sufficient heat dissipation to consistently fire its entire short-range barrage inside the LRM’s minimum range. The same can’t be said of the GT. Do you fire both LPLs, or 1 LPL, the SRM-6s, and maybe the MPLs if close enough? But you can’t use them all together, unless you want to risk cooking the ammo off. Sure, there are bracket fighters, but the GT’s poor heat management makes even that more challenging than it should be.
Another way of looking at it is that the GT, like the Albatross and the Cerberus, should be viewed as more of an overweight heavy than a real assault ‘Mech. It wants to do the same things as an Executioner/Gladiator but the Inner Sphere tech just won’t let it.
And at that price, you’d be better off having SOMETHING to salvage once a side torso gets critted out.
The IS XL engine is bad enough, having the ‘Mech be a total loss in the event of an ammo explosion is near-inexcusable.
In the right hands this thing could be dangerous, 100 tons 4-6 movement is nothing to ignore.
At first glance it’s undergunned but if surrounded on all sides by infantry and vehicles it will defend itself in legendary fashion.
Worst thing? The price.
Is this a pride flag free zone?
I think some people might be so anti woke they see woke in places where there is only doze.
Yeah, did not complain that pride mech is the logo this month or that people celebrate pride in battletech. This was not some anti-woke screed. I pointed out that the pride flag inclusion in the story was hamfisted. It made no sense. The critique was the writing was bad (on top of the mech being not actually “bad”).
Oh, sorry. I misunderstood.
I think the Grand Titan is great visually (DEFINITELY looks a LOT like a certain legendary Autobot leader we all know: “‘Til all are one”, and the homage to his death is absolutely spot on!) In the history, the Grand Titan handed Wolf’s Dragoons some really severe losses during the WOB Jihad, so someone must be doing SOMETHING right with the design, right?
I need one of these when I get around to finishing my Regulans. Gotta have that nuke Thumper.
A Grand-Titan-plushy? I want one.
I want to highlight the N13M for a moment. It’s apparently “based on a field refit” (according to Sarna, I don’t own TRO 3145U so I can’t verify that). But it shares so little in common with the other two pre-existing Grand Titan variants that you have to wonder how it got to be that way. It has a new engine type, new engine rating, swaps out all the weapons except for one small pulse laser, adds jump jets and TSM, and armors the majority of its (non-“roll again”) crit locations. It has a completely different battlefield role, too. Field refits are generally small changes, right? I feel like either the phrase “based on” is doing a lot of work here or the term “field refit” is being creatively applied. Either way I really want to know what the intermediate form looked like.
It’s also a very strange mech. It has 27 armored crit slots, which means that it’s very hard to finish off, but it’s also a TSM mech, so things get very messy for it once it starts losing limbs, weapons, and sinks, which works poorly with the whole zombie mech plan.
TRO: 3145 doesn’t have much more, except that the refit was done for John Al-Hawad, of the Battle Corps Legion. Looking them up on Sarna, they seem to be canonized from a bunch of collectively written fanfic on the old BattleCorps forums. So, yeah, it probably came out of something written by someone who didn’t have a firm grasp on what’s reasonable for a Field Refit.
Well, there’s field refits, and there’s “hey, we’ve got a chassis, and a bunch of spare parts that we think we can force to work together ” ‘field refits’. And then there’s Snord’s Irregulars “field” refits.
The Grand Titan would definitely not look out of place in the Gundam or Transfomers universes! But I still have to wonder about the design: missile launchers without CASE, not enough heat sinks, double or otherwise, and other fun design flaws! There are other 100-tonners out there that can do it better, and to be honest, with a little bit of trial and error when it comes to modifying and tinkering, the Grand Titan can definitely become worthy of it’s name, and be DANGEROUS!
Most of those 100 t mechs that can do better have a 3/5 movement profile. Case is 0,5 ton a piece and even if it saves the pilot the mech is down (IS-XL). The back-firing small pulse lasers are just a bad idea.
I wonder how they managed to kill an Atlas 7d with this piece of excrement? Sure, the 7D is a level 1 build, but still.
The Atlas has more armor, heavier long-range firepower (LRM 20 against LRM 15/Artemis), and has in the medium bracket 52 against 42 damage. You need to get into 6 hexes to shoot the medium pulse lasers, getting into minimum LRM range. At 7, 8, and 9 hexes, the firepower difference is even greater, because the LRM-20 can fire, but the two medium pulse lasers cannot.
As a lark, I did an intro-tech downgrade of the GT:
–3/5 movement with 300 std. engine and std. chassis
–2 PPCs, LRM-15, 2 SRM-6, 2 ML, 2 SL (R), 1 MG (replaces the AMS)
–22 single heat sinks
–same armour
BV 2.0: 1888
The stock GT has a BV of 1817.
Yes, with 3025 tech, you can make a conventional assault ‘Mech that is about as effective BV-wise as the version with 3055 bells and whistles.
Heh, even the original ‘BattleTechnology’ version Titan has a BV of 1959, according to Megamek . . .
Congratulations sir! You virtually recreated the Titan TI-1A prototype that the WoB eventually based the Titan II on. Though your version trades in a chunk of the -1A’s SRMs and Medium Lasers for the LRM 15 and other “accessories.” Either way, it shows how the Titan’s design was kinda butchered by trying to force in the XL 400 engine.
Actually, I realized after the fact that it actually has a kind of Imp-ish vibe, just with different weapon placement (PPCs in the arm instead of one in each side torso). And the Imp still does a lot better on heat dissipation.
The LRM 15/A is better than the LRM 20. Per turn, firepower is the same, (15*.8=12=20*.6) but the 15/A uses less heat and has more ammo per ton. Thus, overtime the LRM 15/A will do more damage.
I’d imagine the GT won by using speed and keeping the Atlas at range. At more than 6 hexs out the LPLs should out perform the bulk of the Atlas’ short range firepower and the more ammo efficient LRM 15a will get more damage out of two tons of ammo than the LRM 20. 4/6 may not be fast, but it can more reliably hit the 5 hex threshold to buff its movement modifier and its got a slightly better weapon range profile. I doubt it was a sexy win.
So, I ran some tests in MegaMek to see just how these two would do when repeatedly matched against each other in (nearly) the same conditions.
MegaMek v0.47
Princess vs. Princess, both set to Berserk
both pilots P4 G3
Map: Rolling Hills 1
Atlas starts in NW, GT starts in SE
MATCH 1
4 turns
Winner: GT
–Atlas killed from repeated head hits
MATCH 2
5 turns
Winner: GT, but pilot died from falling damage to head
–Atlas killed from head blown off crit after repeated head hits
MATCH 3
8 turns
Winner: GT
–Atlas killed from repeated head hits
MATCH 4
33 turns
Winner: Atlas
–GT pilot fled after spending 28 turns unconscious from falling with head, gyro, and CT engine hits
MATCH 5
4 turns
Winner: GT
–Atlas killed by LPL hits to head on consecutive turns
MATCH 6
2 turns
Winner: Atlas
–GT pilot ejected after taking 2 gyro hits from an AC/20 TAC
MATCH 7
8 turns
Winner: GT
–Atlas killed by AC/20 ammo explosion but pilot was already unconscious
MATCH 8
4 turns
Winner: GT
–Atlas killed from LRM20 ammo explosion
MATCH 9
4 turns
Winner: Atlas
–GT pilot ejected after reactor shutdown following 2 engine hits after high-heat strike
MATCH 10
4 turns
Winner: GT
–Atlas pilot ejected after taking 2 gyro hits on a TAC
The verdict? Under these conditions at least, the GT does considerably better than you think.
Some things I noted:
–the GT’s AMS was surprisingly effective at degrading the Atlas’ missile attacks, while the Atlas had no similar response for those of the GT
–with the number of times the Atlas was killed and/or crippled due to repeated head hits and TACs, I understand that the GT’s weapon load is basically set up to crit-bash its opponent to death at short range
–in contrast, the Atlas’ AC/20 wasn’t as effective as you would think. The GT is well-armoured enough to survive at least one AC/20 hit to every forward location (barring TACs), and the Atlas needs to consistently connect with it on the same locations to really have it be the beatstick of doom it’s supposed to be
–4/6 doesn’t seem that much faster than 3/5, but it was enough to more consistently enable the GT to get into more advantageous positions where it could use things like woods and elevation changes to its benefit. The Atlas consistently ended up with worse to-hit numbers as a result.
–surprisingly, in none of these tests did the GT’s XL engine really prove a liability. It was the Atlas that was killed by ammo explosions in 2 out of the 10 tests.
Are these the BEST tests? No, almost certainly not. Different conditions (e.g, using the open terrain maps) might yield a very different outcome. But it’s *something* to actually examine the assertion that the GT’s success against the Atlas in that in-universe promotional fight is just fiction (both IU and OOU). And I, for one, am now convinced that the stock GT is actually a very good matchup for the classic AS7-D.
Note: the 13M was a late Jihad design, not Dark Age. It was the productionised model of a custom done for one Major Al-Hawad of the BattleCorps merc unit, who broke too many Berserkers.
There’s an old saying in aviation, ” If it looks good, it’ll fly good”. In the case of Mechs, it’s, “If it looks good, it’ll fight good”. That seems to fit(?) with the Grand Titan, because it DOES look good! Unfortunately, that’s not the case, sadly….!
Good grief, is this an article to talk about a bad mech or an excuse to virtue signal? Remember a few months ago when several people expressed fatigue at non-Battletech related current event stuff sneaking into Sarna articles? Pepperidge Farm remembers.
With that out of the way, I feel like this is another case where in spite of lore making out the thing to be a lemon, the mech du jour really isn’t THAT bad in my opinion. Subpar for sure but you can do a lot worse. In a way, it reminds me of my favorite Clan mech, the Kingfisher. It’s similar, though inferior. Same speed bracket in the weight class, similar weapon loadout but worse heat efficiency and heavily armored but less durable. Being like the Kingfisher isn’t bad in my book and I think it’s combat drawbacks wouldn’t even qualify it as a bad mech if not for that ungodly price tag. I still think in-universe price should be a factor when evaluating mechs. You want the most bang for your buck. Going back to my Kingfisher comparisons, the GT is basically a worse version of it while being nearly as expensive as a Dire Wolf. That’s more damning than anything.
I think some of the comments are forgetting often these are in lore bad. The grand Titan falls under this. It’s not a great mech IMHO as mentioned before the cost of 4/6 is too much esp on IS tech. If anything be happy they didn’t skimp on armor for guns. To be honest that would be worse.
The thumper one is hilarious all around. It’s not a bad mech just can’t do its job of breaking lines well for a few reasons, namely the breaking part. It’s also faster than most of its lance mates would be.
Running it as a fat heavy is the way to use it or view it. If you have spare BV or cbills.
I kinda liked the angle of the story, I guess I’m in the minority. Either way looking forward to the next write up!
I feel like the grand titan is a victim of it’s own marketing. Nobody wants the GRAND titan to be a ‘just okay’ assault mech. It should be something that makes you say “wow, that’s a cool mech”. The fact that if looks cool and it sounds cool makes the fact that it’s kinda whatever all the more frustrating, and the price tag doesn’t help.
Also, I’d actually like to compliment the way the pride flag was included here. Because of course the Inner Sphere’s all consuming military industrial complex would try to get in on the whole ‘slap a pride flag on a product in June to try to make an extra buck’ business. Especially with something as heavily marketed as the Grand Titan. That kind of thing is probably pretty normalized.
Actually, thinking about that sent me down a rabbit hole of just how much the military industrial complex has probably been normalized and integrated into life and culture in the Inner Sphere. Like, a pride painted MLRS in a modern pride prarade would be considered pretty gross, but if there are pride parades in the Inner sphere then I’ll bet a certain longbow has marched in some of them and people probably thought it was awesome and fun.
Thank you for showing everyone else how to exercise media literacy and critical thinking skills.
Thanks, there’s something to be said for the people in this community who can do all the math required to play this game but never learned basic reading comprehension.
Your take made me laugh because when I read the story I thought of Raytheon slapping a pride flag on a guided missile. I see your analogy, but VEST is not a defense contractor, they are Solaris mech designers. This is less like Raytheon marketing cultural politics and more like like UFC doing it. The audience they market to is less the whole of society and more people who smash beer cans with their foreheads (of which I am guilty from time to time). VEST’s marketing would be a plushie of a Grand Titan holding the ripped off head of an Atlas. Something half drunk dads would high-five each other over having gotten for their kids.
Also, it just dawned on me that the “flight time” from Solaris to Canopus is like 4 months or more. That is a wild distance to go for a month long vacation.
Almost like the the story writer was more concerned about something other than internal consistency and faithfulness to the setting and source material. Funny that.
I get it, Sean is a lib and wants to celebrate something he cares about (that not everyone in BT agrees with him on). So arrange for the June bad mech to be the Eyleuka. I happen to like the Eyleuka, it looks cool. But it certainly is not a top damage dealer. Make the article super gay. Have a Canopian cat-girl sex-party in the write up.
It is not that hard to add a not out of place pride theme in BT. Just plan ahead and stay on topic.
They design war machines that are sold to the government, they’re a defense contractor, although in this case they’re kinda a subcontractor. Point is they are part of the military industrial complex. You’re on Sarna.net, that’s not hard to find out.
Also, the Solaris games aren’t the UFC. It’s one of the most popular international sports in all of inhabited space. The Great Houses directly invest in their arenas and sections of the city. Again,
all of this info is available here on Sarna. Size and scope wise the closest comparison I can think of for the Solaris Games would be a mix between soccer/football and the olympics. And sports equipment companies, which VEST is in this context, do pride promotions.
Ok, a little bit aggressive. Turns out I do know what website I am on. Looking at the sarna.net page for VEST (ok, I won’t keep playing that up) they *designed and produced* a salvage mech, the Valiant, the Volkh, the Jackal, the Aquagladius, the Great Turtle, and the Sasquatch. ALL of these were arena mechs first. Of these mechs, the Valiant and the Jackal were picked for military production. There is no question this is a Solaris VII Gladiator mech design firm. They aren’t corporate dorks putting finger up to measure the winds of Inner Sphere cultural politics. The CEO took his design team to the front lines of the clan invasion to watch the massacre and learn. The only time they did straight up military design was for the the Grand Titan and the Scarabus. They did not *produce* either, they only did the designing for the Mil Ind Complex. It was akin to a consulting gig they picked up on the side.
As for Solaris being like soccer… no. You have completely missed the boat. I chose UFC not because of scale, but because it is the premier fighting league at the moment. It is as close to Roman Gladiators that we have in our culture. People routinely die in Solaris games. It is not like soccer. Scale of the sport is not what is in question, it is the culture of the sport. Solaris sells violence. People don’t tune in to Solaris matches for galatic-national pride like we do for the world cup or for the olympics, they tune in to see Centurion get decapitated by a Hatchetman.
I will also note, Solaris is the biggest sporting event in the Inner Spere. That does not mean they are the biggest thing on every planet. Infact, you can almost guarantee it is not because most planets do not have Gladiator pits or local arenas. In person sports are then obviously some other kind of event. Baseball could be the top sport on Tharkad, Soccer on New Avalon, Cricket on Regulus, Badminton on Sian, that Aztec game on Atreus, etc. This is where you would see the advertisers pushing any number of cultural things and where advertisers would try to bring in as broad of a viewing base as possible. Pride night would be held at your local planetary sporting events.
And look, Sean could have avoided some of this by making his character someone working for Earthwerks (though he can’t solve the galatic travel time problem). Earthwerks may very well make a whole range of inclusive possible mildly offensive plushies. Like a four armed blue version to promote the mech in the Principality of Regulus. Or a bandito one for the Trinity Worlds. Like Disneyland plushies meet 100 ton death machines. I see your point that Mega Corps would slap a pride flag on it. Vining’s design team ain’t that.
The whole point here is this was not carefully written. Very little thought was put into this besides slapping a pride flag in and hinting at Canopus month long carnal celebrations every June.
My problem here isn’t with defending a free article written by a volunteer, especially since I think the in-universe fiction sections are usually the weakest part of the article. Though in this case I actually like how it incorporates the Grand Titan’s messy development. My problem is with you trying to “um-actually” me with verifiably incorrect information.
People absolutely tune in to the Solaris Games for national pride, I can’t think of a single depiction of them that doesn’t include this aspect. For most of the Games’ history the great houses were at war with each other. They’re an opportunity to watch your guys fight their guys from five camera angles and with color commentary. Justin Allard got a job in the Capellan government in part because he was a flag waving nationalist who beat FedSuns pilots.
I don’t understand your insistence that VEST isn’t part of the military industrial complex. It designs war machines for the military that are built by arms companies. It is part of the process of making war machines.
And unless you think that VEST are a few dozen people and a couple mech bays by the time they are designing the grand titan, then they are going to have a marketing department which is made up of corporate dorks who’s job it is to gauge the current culture and politics, especially on a highly multicultural and politically charged world like Solaris.
This is twice now that you have come out rude. Last time you tried to act like I did not know where I could find BT data. Now you want to say am being a dweeb who pulls out obscure things in a “um actually” way. Stop, chill. I am not your enemy, I am someone who disagrees with you.
It feels a bit like you are putting Sean a pedestal. Sean is not some noble rando volunteer. He is the face of Sarna. He writes these articles and he does the interviews. He gets influence and access to BT things that normies do not. I do not have an axe to grind against Sean, he has written many good articles and done some great interviews. He does good things for the BT community. I actually agree with you that the write up about the super sloppy design process on this mech was good writing on Sean’s part. But, he has political views and they came out hard in this article in a way that did not work. Were I in his shoes, and I hamfisted my libertarian leanings into an article that was meant to have the perspective of a drac, I would deserve criticism. Because, that would not make any sense. This is not a call for Sean to be shunned, only that he do better. If he really wants to do pride, he needs to start from there and find a “bad mech” that enables him to write the article he wants to write.
Regarding Solaris and Nationalism. Some of the top stables have political backers from the great states (plus Andurien, lol, cantankerous little cusses). But the Solaris games are not CC vs FS. On a given night you might have a FS fighter against a CC fighter, but the next night it might be CC vs CC. And there are tons of stables and co-ops that are not affiliated with any national entity. And there are independent fighters with no attachment to nation, stable, co-op, or team. You are trying to pitch this like the Olympics or the World Cup. It is not. Do fan bases of certain stables have nationalistic ties, absolutely. But those fans are not tuning in because they want to root for their nation, they are tuning in for the violence and to root for their favorite warriors. The essential quality of a Solaris match is mech on mech violence (I say that but they also do armor and infantry matches, so really it is just violence). Any nationalism tied to a match is an accidental quality, where as it is the essential quality of an Olympic or WC match. I compared to UFC because like Solaris the matchup might take on nationalistic vibes, but the essential quality is violence.
Now, this whole side bit tied back into the degree to which a company on Solaris VII that makes custom arena mechs for any willing buyer would advertise with a symbol of a politico-cultural protest movement. In our world, a soccer gear company will gladly advertise pride things because while it may not be popular globally (Russia, Islamic world, most of Africa, large parts of Asia), it is (or was) much more popular in the nations that are disproportionately likely to buy tons of the company’s products for their kids (Europe and North America). Thus, the political advertising is net positive in the sales market. Now, that same dynamic is not true in the BT example. VEST does not sell anything at all to a an actual IS-wide market, they sell things to rich gladiators on Solaris who in turn market themselves all across the IS. VEST’s market does not have a massive market disparity like we currently have in our world. Pride advertising may help VEST may gain some additional priority of focus from warriors from the MoC, TC, and the FWL… but they will certainly lose support from DC and CC stables (protest movements are not well received in totalitarian states). And it is not true that the MOC, TC, and FWL are vastly larger spenders than the lost markets. It is not a clear win and not worth the risk (unless the company is headed by activists who do not care). This is why I said the article might make more sense it was written from an Earthwerks perspective, because pride advertising might garner social capital within the FWL as diversity is more central to FWL identity than any other great power (especially on the large worlds where the “decision makers” tend to live). Moreover, VEST is a small firm. They don’t really need a marketing or lobbying department like Earthwerks does. The very small customer base they have is the warriors/stables that want two things: mechs that win and mechs that THEY can market with swag. VEST does not need advertising. But their mechs need to be marketable to an audience that tunes in for violence. So IF they did marketing materials, it would be to a international IS audience that self selects because of a desire to watch arena matches; IE mech kickassery marketing, not political marketing.
Alright, I think it’s time we bring this conversation to a close. I appreciate that this was certainly a less heated debate than last year, but when I have to read a treatise about why a Solaris boutique ‘Mech manufacturer would never create a Pride-themed merchandising item, it’s time we all go outside and touch some grass.
Everything I write is for fun. I thought it would be fun to do a Pride tie-in for a gay engineer heading to Canopus for a festival. It’s not a political statement. And if you think that a major corporation wouldn’t stick a Pride flag on LITERALLY ANYTHING to make a sale, then count yourself lucky to not be the target of that very specific brand of advertising.
The Grand Titan EXCELLS at close-in fighting! How many Mechs could withstand being pounded by pulse lasers and missile barrages up-close and personal? Even Clan Mechs wouldn’t last long! Of course, with the smaller amount of double heat sinks, say hello to shutdown when trying to do an alpha strike with this thing! “Warning! Warning! Shutdown!”
I remember sering at first glance seeing that the original design is overweight back in the old days. German Hardware Handbuch had no errata from the original TRO 3055.
Errors aside it‘s not so much a bad Mech but at least in my view bad for it’s price tag.
It doesn‘t have the punch of some other 100t assaults while being somewhat fragile due to no case and XL engine. Still can be quite dangerous though.
I‘d personally prefer the Berserker, that at least got AMS and ECM as well as hatchet and MASC. Though i think it‘s better with TSR instead of MASC. Still got the huge XL Engine so drestoying a side torso kills the Mech.
Just remember: there is NO such thing as a “perfect” Mech, and that applies to the Grand Titan as well as all other Mech designs, past, present, and future! Why? Because they’re made by human beings, and nothing human-made is “perfect”, even in the 31st. Century! Even the Clans make mistakes! Look at the Hunchback IIC!
*Hellstar enters the chat*
I’m really disappointed at the number of people in here offended by a solitary mention of a Pride anything. I just assumed we were over all of that. Have fun gaming, I guess.
I don’t understand: what does a warrior’s sexuality have to do with piloting a Mech? Or role-playing for that matter? I don’t see why people are all hot and bothered about the whole pride thing here: this is Battletech, and really big Mechs stomping around blowing up other Mechs and everything else for that matter don’t care about sexuality: here, we are ALL, depending on what we’re role-playing, warriors and targets both!
Reading thru TRO: Jihad, I saw mention of another problem with the N11M variant: Due to poor proofreading, it was marketed as the “Grant” Titan!
Poor Mech: can’t seem to get a break in ANY way! Looks like the “Grand Titan” went belly up right from the start!
One thing I like about the “games” on Solaris 7 is that it’s a bloodsport, pure and simple! People fight AND die routinely, for the pleasure of the crowds, live and broadcast in real-time by HPG! Comstar must make a TON of money doing that service for the pleasure of the masses of the Inner Sphere, and probably the Periphery as well! The Romans would have understood Solaris 7 PERFECTLY: feast and games, bread and circuses! Keep the masses fed and happy, so no one revolts against the government! And what better way to do so than have Mechs against Mechs in arena combat? And as for the UFC, anybody who watches it knows blood IS drawn all the time!