Courtesy of Eldoniousrex
Audio courtesy of Nathan and Mike from BungleTech
“Alright, trainees. Today we’re going to discuss survival tactics of the SHD-2H Shadow Hawk, or as I like to call it,” pressing a button on a small remote, SLDF Sergeant Van Munsen activated the projector to display a pilot rocketing away from a burning ‘Mech. “‘Eject, Eject, Eject.'”
There was a slight murmur from the room as prospective MechWarriors looked on with confusion. Finally, one spoke up. “Sir, why is the lesson plan called—”
“Because eject is what you will do in most situations where the integrity of the Shadow Hawk is compromised,” the Sergeant stated bluntly. “If you suffer an armor penetration of the torso, you eject. If you suffer an armor penetration of the legs, you eject. If you suffer a penetration of the cockpit, you eject.”
Sergeant Van Munsen clicked the remote to move onto the next slide, a cutaway diagram of the SHD-2H. “This is the Shadow Hawk‘s internals. As you can see here,” a bright red laser circled the LRM ammo bin in the right torso, “here,” he circled the left torso autocannon bin, “and here,” a brief point to the center torso and its SRM storage, “are the internal magazines. As you can see, the ammunition linkages travel throughout the ‘Mech’s torso, making it possible to cause a sympathetic detonation should your torso integrity become compromised.
“This can happen from any angle,” the Sergeant stressed, staring at the largely blank faces of his cadets. “Any detonation will likely touch off the entire ‘Mech’s ammo stores, leading to a catastrophic loss of structural integrity. There’s even a chance you could lose engine containment.”
Just to ensure the message reached even the thickest cadets in the crowd, the next image showed a Shadow Hawk coming apart in a massive blue explosion. Several students gasped, while another expressed their awe with “woah.”
“I say again: if your torso armor is penetrated and you are under fire, you pull the ejection handle.” The next slide showed the ejection handle just beneath the Shadow Hawk‘s command seat. “Two hands, pull, and out you go.”
The next slide revealed a diagram of the Shadow Hawk‘s lower assembly, with joint actuators and myomer bundles on full display. “Armor plates here,” Van Munsen pointed with his red laser where a human’s quad muscles would be, “and here,” another brief point to the Shadow Hawk‘s ‘calves’, “are also vulnerable spots. Armor penetration here will cause the plates to slide and sever the myomer bundles. Your leg will essentially go dead, more than likely leading to loss of pilot control.”
Another click, and the next slide showcased a somewhat comical image of a Shadow Hawk pitching forward face-first into the dirt. The image after that was less humorous as the students were treated to a graphic display of what was left of the pilot inside the crushed cockpit.
“In a combat situation, you will most likely be maneuvering, and loss of leg control would be catastrophic.” Again, the Sergeant paused for emphasis. “You often have even less time to eject after your leg armor is compromised than when your torso is penetrated.”
A final click brought the Shadow Hawk‘s cockpit into view beside a cutaway schematic of the SRM launcher right next to it. “Head penetration is usually a no-brainer for pilots, but a reminder that—should you survive decompression—the short-range missile launcher is a bare half-meter away from you. A direct hit could cause waiting missiles to detonate. As with everywhere else, penetration of the cockpit should prompt you to eject.”
Sergeant Van Munsen deactivated the projector to bring back the room lights. “Any questions?”
A confused-looking cadet raised a tentative hand. “Sir, this ‘Mech seems like a death trap. Why is the SLDF using this old design?”
“Because they made a lot of them,” Van Munsen said flatly. “Any other questions?”
The same cadet raised his hand again. “Sir, can I switch pilot tracks to something safer? Like a Locust?”
“No, you cannot. Dismissed.”
Mankind has long known the benefits of specialization in warfare, and yet even after centuries, soldiers will always return to a weapons platform that can fulfill the needs of the moment. The Shadow Hawk is just one such platform. Able to fulfill multiple roles from reconnaissance to fire support, the adaptable Shadow Hawk truly exemplifies the old adage, “jack-of-all-trades, master of none.”
Introduced by Lang Industries in 2467, the Shadow Hawk‘s initial SHD-1R configuration had a top speed of 64.8 kph, 14 tons of armor, and mounted a single Autocannon/5 and a medium-class laser. Three jump jets made it one of the most mobile and maneuverable ‘Mechs ever designed (at the time), a trait that future variants would continue. However, the SHD-1R suffered from a design fault in its armor plating that would sever the ‘Mech’s leg myomer following severe damage. This fault, as well as improvements to BattleMech technology over the next century, would lead to a mass recall and redesign in 2550 that would later be dubbed the SHD-2H.
Now featuring a top speed of 86 kph, the new-and-improved Shadow Hawk expanded its weapons complement with a Holly SRM-2 and an LRM-5 launcher to go alongside the 80mm Armstrong J11 AC/5 and Martell medium laser. Advances in armoring not only solved the fault with the leg plating but allowed for an overall reduction in armor mass (to nine and a half tons) without any reduction in protection. Two additional heat sinks ensured the Shadow Hawk would never overheat even when firing all its weapons while jumping, and combined with the legendary Sparrow 300J life support system, most pilots considered the Shadow Hawk to be the most comfortable BattleMech ever designed.
However, the SHD-2H was not without its faults. With ammunition stored throughout the ‘Mech thanks to its varied ammo-dependent weapons, penetration of the torso armor left the Shadow Hawk vulnerable to sympathetic detonation. SLDF pilots were trained to use the Shadow Hawk‘s hands to cover any holes in the torso armor, giving a very human-like pose to damaged ‘Mechs. If battle damage rendered the Shadow Hawk‘s arms unable to physically cover holes in the torso armor, pilots were instructed to eject lest they lose the machine (and their lives) to an ammo explosion.
Besides its reliance on ammo-dependent weapons, the core complaint against the Shadow Hawk was its lack of firepower. Variety gave the Shadow Hawk flexibility, but it lacked the stopping power of a Griffin‘s PPC or a Centurion‘s Luxor D-Series autocannon. The SLDF royal upgrade, introduced in 2752 and designated the SHD-2Hb, replaced the Armstrong J11 with an LB 10-X autocannon, replaced the missile launchers with twin Streak SRM-2s, and added a second Martell medium-class laser. It also upgraded the heat sinks to double-strength models and hardened the ammunition bins with CASE. endo steel and ferro-fibrous armor allowed for the additional equipment without increasing the overall weight of the chassis.
Following the fall of the Star League and the destruction of Lang Industries’ factories, the Great Houses looked to upgrade their stores of Shadow Hawks without the benefit of Lostech. The Davions introduced the SHD-2D in 2796, giving the Shadow Hawk a second SRM-2 launcher, an additional medium laser, and an additional ton of SRM ammo at the cost of five tons of armor protection, making the ‘Mech extremely vulnerable to fire. The Kuritans, meanwhile, replaced the medium laser, autocannon, and SRM launcher with a Donal PPC and five extra heat sinks. Dubbed the “Griffin knockoff” by Lyran MechWarriors, the SHD-2K would go on to be one of the Draconis Combine’s more successful Succession War-era redesigns.
It wasn’t until 3048 that the Shadow Hawk received as significant a technological upgrade as the SHD-2Hb thanks to the discovery of the Helm Memory Core. Now produced by Earthwerks Incorporated, the SHD-5M first arrived in the year 3048. An Extralight Hermes 275 engine and endo steel chassis allowed for the installation of two additional jump jets, a Doombud LRM-20 instead of the LRM-5, a Hovertec Streak SRM-2 in place of the regular launcher, and an Imperator Ultra Autocannon/5 in place of the old Armstrong J11. The medium laser was retained, CASE protection was installed, and the heat sinks were upgraded to doubles.
The Shadow Hawk would continue to proliferate throughout the 31st century and be produced by no fewer than eight interstellar conglomerates. Some, such as the SHD-5D from Kallon Industries, would radically redesign the visual aesthetic of the Shadow Hawk while installing then state-of-the-art weaponry. This particular model would also install a Full-Head Ejection System, further improving both pilot comfort and survivability.
The most recent SHD-6D model, also from Kallon Industries, seeks to solve the original’s overreliance on ammunition-based weapons while also defeating modern defensive systems. A Medium and Large Re-engineered lasers replace the original AC/5 and laser—both of which bypass modern Reflective armor—while an MML-5 system replaces the LRM-5 to offer far greater battlefield flexibility. The Streak SRM-2 one-shot launcher provides on-demand anti-infantry fire, and CASE II protects the ‘Mech’s only ammunition bin located on the right shoulder.
Rarely is the Shadow Hawk the best ‘Mech for the task, but it is often the best ‘Mech on hand. Now fielded by every major military, most minor militaries, and many mercenary companies across the Inner Sphere, the Shadow Hawk has proliferated to the point where its initial mediocrity has long since been forgotten. Perhaps the most noteworthy improvement—certainly for Shadow Hawk pilots—is that it’s finally safer to be inside a Shadow Hawk rather than outside of one.
And as always, MechWarriors: Stay Syrupy.
The only way I’ve found the 2H remotely usable is by using the rapid-fire AC rules and alternate munitions. I’d take it over a SHD-2D as the 2D’s weak armor keeps the ‘mech from closing to physical attack range, one of the Shadow Hawk’s best ways to attack.
Ah the Shadow Hawk, alone it’s underwhelming, but it can buddy up with dang near anything.
My brother has been enjoying the flexibility a pair them gives used alongside a Wolverine and Griffin.
Ah, the Shadow Hawk… it may have plinking damage, but it’s RELIABLY plinking damage. The SHD-6M’s combo of Reengineered Lasers and MMLs appeal to me, though.
(Personally, when it comes to the base model, I like to swap out the LRM-5 for extra SRMs.)
Sooo you just make a Wolverine? I think that says everything that needs said about the ol’ Shadowhawk.
Literally every time someone “improves” on the Shadow Hawk, it’s basically a different ‘mech. Take the SHD-2K. You’re gonna tell me that’s not just a funky looking Griffin? It manages heat better than the Griffin, though.
The SHD-2D? That’s just a really fat Commando that wanted to have a gun. It is decent for light duty against infantry and vehicles, though.
Yep, that’s why a fun “modern” upgrade may be to lean in to the ‘scattershot’ light weapons idea. 55 tons endo steel DHS 5/8/5 gives you 17.5 tons:
RAC/2 – 2 ammo, SRM-4 – 1 ammo, LRM-5 – 1 ammo, 1 ER ML, CASE.
No “piercing knockout” weapons so this is still a companion mech, like a Crusader. Crit-seeking from medium to long ranges with a couple additional weapons for in-close. Proper movement with proper armor (11 tons). Put all the ammo in one place with CASE so you can ‘survive’ the hit. The LRM and AC could hit 6 locations at 18 hexes, which has an ok chance at head damage.
I love how the original write-up of the 5M in TRO 3050 just mentioned the UAC, the Streak SRM, and the CASE along with the XL engine, but didn’t bring up the fact they went from a LRM 5 to LRM 20, suddenly turning it into a missile boat.
True enough, but they also saw fit to give that LRM 20 a single ton of ammo–that’s six shots. Say what you will about the -2H’s popgun armament, but one thing it does have for its day and age is ammo endurance (although that’s very much a 2-edged sword in 3025 play). With the -5M, you’ve got to be very judicious about how and when you fire your LRMs. Same with the UAC/5–you really have to use your judgment on how often you want to double-fire it, both to conserve ammo and reduce the risk of jamming.
I’ve played with the SHD-7CS. That’s a decent variant with adequate ammo (though the caveat about the UAC still applies).
Lore has it a walking bomb, but it’s still a decent mech on the board. Not a great one, but a decent one.
Why is this part of a series of bad mechs, when there isn’t really anything about how the Shadow Hawk is a bad mech either mechanically or fluff wise? In 3025, outside of not being as good as its contemporaries in the form of “doesn’t have a PPC or AC/10”, it’s a decent, if not exciting mech. The article just glides over how the -5M is an exceptionally under ammo’d mech (especially for the era) to just cover the armament as an upgrade, and the RAC Hawk gets at best no real explanation, only to end up doing the same “here’s the guns” for the -6D in all its WYSIWYG glory in the post Dark Age environment, when I’d say that’s the real bad mech of the lot. At least explain WHY the mech is bad rather than just laying out the stats for people to guess why we’re supposed to think it’s bad.
The article clearly states:
“However, the SHD-1R suffered from a design fault in its armor plating that would sever the ‘Mech’s leg myomer following severe damage. This fault, as well as improvements to BattleMech technology over the next century, would lead to a mass recall and redesign in 2550 that would later be dubbed the SHD-2H.”
The armour fault was actually part of the original fluff in TRO:3025 but was later retconned to apply to the primitive SHD-1R.
The article continues:
“Besides its reliance on ammo-dependent weapons, the core complaint against the Shadow Hawk was its lack of firepower. Variety gave the Shadow Hawk flexibility, but it lacked the stopping power of a Griffin‘s PPC or a Centurion‘s Luxor D-Series autocannon.”
The SHD-2H’s true badness lies not just in not having a big gun, it’s that for all the guns it has, it still has popgun firepower at every range band.
So the issue with the Shadow Hawk is that it’s not a Centurion? That’s hardly enough to warrant it being a Bad ‘Mech.
I think mentioning the leg issue makes sense. The SLDF had that problem a long time ago with its 1Rs and now the 2H is expected to have the same issue. Even if it doesn’t show up in battle reports.
Much like the Blackjack and its brittle armour its badness became mythical.
Mechanically, it’s a bad mech because all three torso locations are full of ammo. The article is very clear about that. The main issue with filling it with that much ammo is that all those small weapon systems are pretty ammo-efficient, so it’s not like a Crusader or Catapult that can lob all its LRM ammo into the enemy, then close in once it’s eliminated that particular ammo explosion risk.
The armament is a bit more subjective but can very easily be argued that it’s bad as well from a mechanical perspective, but I don’t necessarily agree with that. It’s poorly optimized, but none of its weapons are inherently “bad”. If there were two Shadow Hawk variants, one that trades the SRM2 and ammo for a second LRM5, and the other that drops the LRM5 and upgrades to an SRM6, I don’t think folks would rag on the design nearly as much. In fact, the latter is basically a Wolverine, which is pretty well-regarded.
“Bad Mech” does not mean “does not come stock with max armour, DHS, and CERPPCs.”
No, but there’s a wide gulf between ‘bad’ and ‘optimized bullshit’ and the Shadow Hawk is unfortunately on the wrong end of it.
The baseline Shadow Hawk has three different weapons that require ammo, and it’s decided to split those ammo bins into all three torso bays.
More importantly it’s using at least three tons on ammo that don’t really DO much in the end. Am AC/5, LRM5 and a SRM2 plus the one Medium Lasers don’t just really make for a viable threat at any range. At long range, you do an average of 7-8 damage if you hit with everything. Both those guns have a minimum range so when an enemy gets up close, you fall back on your medium laser and am SRM2, functionally turning you into a 55-ton Wasp.
Furthermore it’s over sinked. You have 12 heat sinks on a load out that can push out 10 heat if you alpha, and you’re never going to alpha with this loadout.
If the AC/5 was a decent weapon, it’d be okay.
If you ripped out those extra heat sinks and say, upgraded the SRM2 into a 4 and threw in a second medium laser, it’d be okay.
Now it’s just.. mediocre.
It blows up real good though, so it makes for a good mook mech in a campaign. It can annoy your PCs at any range without being REALLY too threatening, and it’s got enough armor to take a couple of hits before it takes a torso crit and turns into a rapidly expanding cloud of spare parts, making it feel REAL satisfying when your hero finally nails it.
Yes. It’s a ‘Mech designed for the world of the game, not the game itself, and in lore it’s a workhorse ‘Mech that is useful in literally every situation. And in-game, it’s still an incredibly useful ‘Mech for under 1100 BV.
Oversinking is an issue, absolutely, and I will grant that, (it could stand to have an extra ton of armour and an SRM4 in lieu of the two extra heat sinks) but the ammo placement is not. The reason it’s not an issue is that it mitigates the issue that everyone complains about with Battletech when introducing people to it: Games take too long. An ammo explosion removes it, and that speeds up the game immensely.
“Now it’s just.. mediocre.”
Yes, sure, you could argue that (I would not) but mediocre is not “bad.” The Shadow Hawk is in no way a bad ‘mech. It’s just not optimized BS.
My table plays mostly 3rd Succession War campaign games (including tracking ammo expenditure and any damage that can’t get repaired in time) with a lot of stock or only slightly modified ‘Mechs. No Clan tech, not even Star League tech, and as such, no ER PPCs or Gauss Rifles, no pulse lasers, no Streaks, no targeting computers. Ideal conditions for classic ‘Mechs to prove themselves.
Even by those standards, the Shadow Hawks we’ve encountered ended up with profoundly subpar performance. Honestly, I’d say its greatest hidden weakness is that it’s 5/8/3, and surprisingly easy to outmaneuver as a result. If it can’t move in a straight line, even a 4/6/4 can easily play around it.
Need long range support? Buy a Griffin and learn heat management. Or Buy a Dervish and learn positioning.
Want a brawler? Buy a Wolverine and learn the finer points of smart arm/torso shielding.
Feeling like playing scout? Buy a Phoenix Hawk and learn a whole lot about heat management.
The things that the stock Shadow Hawk tries to do, other 3025-vintage ‘Mechs can do with better focus and oftentimes more power projection in the bargain. I like a generalist jack of all trades design, but that requires the design in question actually reach the adequacy of ‘jack.’
The argument is that a Shadow Hawk has ammo in too many places, so you suggest replacing it with a *Dervish*?
Arms. Ammo.
Torsos. Ammo.
Armor? 16/18/23 on the Shadow Hawk, 10/15/20 on the Dervish.
“Games take too long. An ammo explosion removes it, and that speeds up the game immensely.”
Wait, so you are saying Shadow Hawk are prone to ammo explosion wasn’t bad, because by dieing fast it speed up the game?
In other word, easier to kill are suppose to be the strong point of a ‘mech?
What?
Like seriously, Shadow Hawk have weak defense because of ammo placement. Its armament give it weak firepower at all range. Its maneuverability is ok but not super amazing. So it fail two out of three factors of effectiveness, any only being average on the 3rd one. How is that not qualified for “bad ‘mech”?
“Games take too long. An ammo explosion removes it, and that speeds up the game immensely.”
So… it is a good mech, because it dies quickly?
We wanted the truth, and we got some.
While I’d call the -2H more “aggressively Okay”, I wondered when the Shadow Hawk would get its write-up. It’s bad if you fear Through-Armour Crits like I do, but like most mechs that try to have weapons for all occasions, it needs Standard tech to do it well.
Anything that has small Short & Long-range missile launchers, I feel, could always benefit from an MML.
I feel like these “bad mechs” articles are really just “This mech isn’t a meta S tier front-line fighter, and thus it’s bad.”
Ive seen it survive things other mechs have died from. It’s weapons load isn’t great, but it fills basically every range bracket. It’s fast and has jump jets so it can keep up with heavier scouts. The basic tech is simple,meaning repair and rearm is going to be cheap easy and plentiful when it comes to purchasing parts. But, it’s not a hunchback 4G, or Atlas, or Marauder who excel at front line fighting with heavy damage punches. And that’s okay, but I guess we’re losing ideas for articles so we gotta start throwing every unit we can under the bus lmao
The Shadow Hawk has been called a “well-balanced fighting machine” throughout it’s history, but apparently not! One warrior actually SURVIVED reactor burn-through through his cockpit, and mech was a Shadow Hawk! But it DOES look nice in appearance! Of course, looks don’t win battles….
You’re right that looks don’t win battles.
What *does* win battles is versatility. The Shadow Hawk has that, and makes a great pairing with virtually any other unit out there. That’s not something that can be said about most mechs.
I’ve always had a bit of a dislike of the Shadow Hawk. It just doesn’t hit as hard as a mech its size should be able to. The varied armament gives a degree of versatility, but what you lose is the ability to land a decisive blow at any range. Some of the later variants like the 2Hb go some way to remedying that, but by 3048 there are better alternatives you can field.
As an aside, in Mechwarrior 5, which doesn’t model ammo explosions properly (likely to reduce instances of sudden player-death), the small hitbox for the center torso and the torso-mounted weapons can render this an irritatingly difficult mech to knock out of a fight. That’s quite the contrast from its fluff/tabletop vulnerability once the armor is breached.
Is no one going to comment on how exceptionally great and hilarious the article artwork is?
By referencing Evangelion, it also feels like a nod to the iconic ‘sad destroyed dougram’ image from the opening scene of Fang of the Sun Dougram
You mean the Shinji Chair Meme?
https://www.dailydot.com/memes/shinji-chair-meme/
The Shadow Hawk’s original appearance in TRO:3025 is, of course, pretty much that of the eponymous mecha from Dougram. Ironically, the SHD variant that IMO comes closest to the hero ‘Mech of that show is the SHD-7M, with the Light Gauss Rifle playing the role of the Linear Cannon.
Finally, perhaps the ultimate Bad ‘Mech! Both gimped in the lore AND with a well-established reputation for mediocrity in tabletop play! (at least up to 3048). The -1R and -2H variants are obligate team players. They don’t have enough firepower to force a PSR on their own, but they can be the ones that tip the damage into PSR territory as part of massed fire from a medium lance. As so often noted, the -2H is the ultimate generalist, in that it can do a bit of everything, but nothing well. Only the Dracs came up with a decent Succession Wars variant. Once you start introducing Star League (and more advanced) tech, then the SHD becomes a whole different kettle of fish with more focused roles.
The 2h is just not good. It’s real use if you are using one is a leader for bugs, it sure can scare lights. Nothing it’s got is good but it can slap them around (punches and kicks) out range most (LRM/AC5).
Alt ammo doesn’t seem to help it.
It’s a funny mech because while I love this series, sometimes with due respect, you post mechs that are bad in lore. In lore the shad gets love this guy is a TT only let down. My wording might be off because I’ve had a really crummy day and half awake.
Either way, great write up as normal you brought some cheer to an old mech warrior who’s having a bad day!
Wanna bet when we’ll see “Bad ‘Mechs – Marauder”?
Not to mention that worst of Clan designs, the Timber Wolf…
Frankly, I’m surprised that this series isn’t just retitled to “Bad ‘Mechs – Anything without CLPLs and TarComps as their primary configuration.”
You jest, but the MAD-3R has bad heat management and an ammo bomb in the left torso. It’s tabletop performance comes nowhere near the hype it gets in universe.
Agreed, and with the additional downsides of 17 side torso armor and 18 leg armor, as well as only 16 heat sinks. That’s just asking for a PPC double-punch to four potential frontal locations to make things dicey and not being able to reliably respond in kind.
Ah yes. “Bad ‘Mechs- The Autocannon 5”
And like. They’d atleast be correct at it being bad. Possibly the worst weapon in the game, really.
Hatchets or any physical weapon are worse. The AC/5 can at least put out steady if not spectacular damage to long range for the entire game. Physical weapons are only going to be used a few times, and don’t offer many advantages over the kicks you were already doing for free.
Even if we confine ourselves to guns, I think the heavy machine gun is still worse. Ton for ton, it puts out less damage at shorter ranges in fewer hits than the vanilla version. This means its worse at both anti-personnel and crit seeking, which are the two jobs you want machine guns for, and it gives up range to do it. This is an impressively comprehensive level of failure. The only thing that might possibly put the AC/5 below it is the HMG is light enough it doesn’t ruin your entire ‘Mech the way making space for the 10 ton footprint of the autocannon does.
Props for taking on one of the actual controversial Mechs, one that people actually like. Now get yourself some *real* credibility points and remind everyone that the Urbanmech is not in fact something worthy of praise, despite the memes and mental gymnastics.
BattleTech’s ultimate jack of all trades master of none, adequate at everything and good at nothing. It has both Rugged and Ubiquitous quirks, so keeping one running at 100% even during the Succession Wars era a walk in the park. Used to garrison backwater worlds during the Star League era, low level industry can easily produce the munitions. Useful in mission support and recovery, i.e. dragging downed mechs back to the dropship.
In a long term campaign keeping a SHD-2H in the field is actually pretty easy. There is a reason why they figure prominently in Merc units, garrison units, etc.
They are the ultimate utilitarian mech.
My only experience is in MW:5, so the usual tabletop context is missing, but I agree not a single version of the Shadow Hawk is worth the C-Bills I pay for this thing. They universally suck, I have driven this thing in basic configs, the heroic version, up sinked with double heats skinks, custom loadouts and even custom load outs my friends tried experimentally. There was not a single match where I was happy in a Shadow Hawk. It’s weapons are either a too diverse collection of popguns, A single weapon that’s okay but with not enough secondary weapons to balance out the slow fire rate or small ammo capacity. In the 55 ton mech range just about any other mech is better.
The 2D and 2D2 are my old standby. 3xSRM4+2xMLs. Outdone by the free Kintaro nowadays, but before we got the Bountyhunter missions it was an excellent cheap and durable brawler.
Are you talking in one of the video games? In tabletop play, those are basically death traps, lol. The improved firepower is so minimal, especially since on the 2D, it can’t handle the heat load, and it loses over half its armor. When you make a Phoenix Hawk look well-protected, you’ve got issues! Lol.
Ah the Shadow Hawk. Brings me back to my first real game of classic BT.
four players in a 2v2, team 1 was a Mercury and Sentinel, team 2 was a Locust and a Shadow Hawk, I was the Hawk pilot.
My initial plan was to move into some nearby woods and fire from cover, my team mate in the Locust chose to charge and started getting mauled by both the Mercury and Sentinel. Que me jumping out of the woods and firing everything in range on the Mercury to try and save him. I succeeded in drawing their attention to me, though the Mercury was close enough to get in my rear and crit my ac 5.
Somehow, I managed to stay alive for almost the entire game, and even took out the Sentinel with a crit to the SRM ammo, then I died as my remaining ac ammo got hit in the second to last turn. My team mate, despite his Locust being more structure than armor at this point went on to finish the Merucry off and win the game.
In hindsight, if I had dumped my ac ammo after I lost the cannon, I would have made it to the end.
I randomly fell in love with this ‘mech one day. Not entirely sure why, but I did. I know it’s not optimized, but with a good pilot it can be pretty mean in melee with PSRs in play. Ammo explosions are mitigated by dumping ammo, while not ideal, you aren’t using that gun anymore anyways if the torso is open. The AC5 has exposed weapon linkage, as does anything that replaces it from what I understand, so it looses the gun easily meaning its ammo is dumped at range sometimes. Not a great ‘mech, but the changes I tend to do in campaigns are small as well, I usually rip out the LRM and swap for an SRM, leaving the single ton of ammo for each, maybe stuffing in more armour by removing a heat sink. I do find it able to endure if the other team has a group of dedicated flamer units, as it basically doesn’t care about external heat, also kinda makes it useful in high ambient heat situations without DHS. Against its fellow 55 tonners, it seems kinda meh, but I weirdly like it more than most. Also, the ammo bomb thing really applies to the Dervish, I’ve lost every single one to either a TAC or two ‘mechs deciding they hate it.
In hindsight, if you’d dumped your AC ammo after you lost the cannon, that mercury would have been close enough to shoot you in the back and kill you while you stood still to dump that ammo. Dumping ammo only *ever* ‘makes sense’ if you can withstand a full frontal assault that round, *and* nothing can get behind you to take a stab at that open ammo bay.
I was about to bash the Shadow Hawk until I took a look at its loadout. It has 3 torso bombs, but they all are well padded. Chance to-hit on a TAC is 25%, 8%, 17% from Right to Left. Compare that to a Dragon with a similar loadout at 100%, 0%, 66% respectively. The Dragon is a much more effective multi-role mech, however it definitely takes some risk in doing so.
Unfortunately the S.Hawk is still not a good mech. It wastes tonnage on split LRM/SRM which keeps it from being either an effective brawler or fire support. It’s got a Cav-like movement profile, but by missing those 2 JJs it’s eternally slowing down its teammates on any terrain except open. The only real benefit it has is being tanky. Multiple small weapon systems means some can get knocked out while allowing the mech to remain capable. Its heatsinks keep it from overheating except when taking crits; even then with 1 engine crit it doesn’t lose much effectiveness. Even with 2 engine crits it has the capability to run away leading to better long-term durability.
All of that said, it’s not much tankier than a Griffin or a Wolvie which have similar armour. Both the Wolvie and Griffin have less ammo to shoot at (Griffin 33%/0%/0%, Wolverine 0%/0%/33% with 11% on arm) while being much more effective damage-wise. The Shadow Hawk is in a position where almost any change will improve the mech. Taking off the SRM for an extra LRM5 make it into a decent light fire support mech; take off the LRM allows for an SRM 4+ML which makes for a good brawler. Take off a heatsink for 2JJs and now you’re jumping around with the rest of the Cavalry mechs. The Shadow Hawk isn’t a generalist because it can do multiple mission profiles well, but because it fails to do any mission profile effectively.
Except being shot at. It’s pretty decent at getting shot.
Um……how is a one-shot SSRM2 considered anti-infantry? SSRM2s haven’t been able to use infernos, or any specialized ammo type, since FASA was at the helm. That said, yeah, the fluff for Shads has always been funny. I’m actually surprised you didn’t mention the SHD-5S as fixing the Shad’s ammo dependency, as it came out LONG before the 6D. Bold choice picking such a beloved mech for this, lol. As for everyone freaking out, relax, it’s a fun and goofy satire piece. These “Bad Mechs” articles are purely for fun. Sit back and enjoy!’
Unfortunately for the writer, the Shadow Hawk has never been a bad mech. It compares well to anything within 10 tons of it in any sourcebook in which it has appeared, and in the lore has been a reliable and favored machine.
Honestly, I think these articles keep getting written simply because they get community response, and they’re running out of bad mechs… which when you think about it, is kind of a “good problem”.
Just thought of this lance:
Quickdraw
Shadow Hawk
Vulcan
Clint
all in their most common 3025-era variants, of course.
Good heavy
Good Medium
Anti-infantry
Mediocre Medium
Yea, Sean’s hit rock bottom
3025 Quickdraw and Shadow Hawk merged into the 55-ton Quickhawk
15 tons weapons + 12 HS
4 x ML
2 x LRM-5 + 2 ammo
1 x SRM-4 + 1 ammo
Some ammo issues. Slightly less long-rang punch but a lot stronger in-close. And yes those MLs face forward.
I just wanna give a shoutout to the dogshit AC/5 making ‘mechs bad since its inception. Truly a weapon system of all time that surely can’t be hot swapped to a lighter weapon system that does more damage with about the same range but also no minimum range. Wait what do you mean the Large Laser exists?
Precision ammo gives it at least sone utility. I’m not a huge fan of AC or LAC-2s and 5s, but the field gun infantry with 6 LAC5s is pretty terrifying, especially with AP ammo.
Don’t forget one of the worst design features of both the Shadow Hawk AND Griffin: big open-faced canopy cockpits with big windows that can allow an enemy to take out either mech’s pilot: to quote the article that open this piece, who’s going to HAVE time to eject if the Shadow hawk takes a hit in it’s cockpit?
I think ya haven’t read enough of the lore that all mechs’ canopies are only slightly less durable than their armor. 9 pips of armor is quite a lot.
Plus, the Shadow Hawk and the Griffin is from Fang of the Sun Dougram, where BattleTech got their “walking tanks with big canopies” design philosophy came from.
In the original Mechwarrior PC game, the Shadow Hawk has an advantage over every other Mech: That LRM-5 shoots such slow missiles that you can walk backwards and get 10 or so free hits on the legs of the advancing 4/6 heavies.
Once they’re close you’re of course dead meat. Jump and hope for the best, namely your lance-mates.
Also the enemies are easy to bypass and once you negotiate a contract, you can downgrade to a Locust, run around behind the enemy, and machine-gun them. So that game itself isn’t a good metric haha just the old fun flaws of the 1980s. Also: On the Atari Football game, the defense can run off the filed in the wrong direction and appear ahead of the offense! “Extra Safety!”
The Shadow Hawk is an Assassin with an AC-5. And people say the Assassin sucks! Either one can drop the SRM-2 for either armor or an extra LRM-5 launcher.
Or a light mod for the standard Shadow Hawk is to lose the extra heat sinks for 2 jump jets and upgrade to the quite useful SRM-4. The AC-5 is junk but you can flank, use mobility, and consistently hit with the thing at ranges that ML’s usually miss. It’ll never top LRMs for basic efficiency of course.
Extra heat sinks also may come in handy for fighting infantry with infernos? Spitballing.
DAAAAAAMN! Some hurt feelings going on! Chill! It’s a satire article, not a rating like Goonhammer. Just have a chuckle. I loved the “can I transfer to a safer mech, like a Locust?” Lol. I agree, the Shad is cool, but very mediocre. Even the Succession Wars Kurita variant is just a Griffin with fewer missiles and more heat sinks. Now, post-3050, there are some great variants. I’m a big fan of the 5S and 5D. The 5S is a speedy energy boat and spotter, but it’s just so damn expensive. The 5D, brings the pain with the RAC5. I do wish there was a pre-Jihad C3 variant, though.
oooooh boy, Sean you’ve poked the hornets nest with this one.
everyone KNOWS this mech is good, it’s IN LORE a work horse mech, on the table top it’s a good mech, this is a few steps from calling the Urbie bad, and if that happened the community would be PISSED. Rename the series, I BEG OF YOU, because the moment you make this a series about focusing on less popular mechs, and not “””Bad””” mechs, people will be fine with it.
Update after reading the article:
okay? the biggest issue is the ammo, which if the shadow hawk in it’s normal config is used correctly, shouldn’t be an issue. it’s a sniper mech, able to support it’s allies at longer then normal ranges, and it has the maneuverability to get to those prime sniping spots. if you want a more Front-line based Shadow Hawk, ditch the LRMs and SRMs, slap a shit ton more armor on, put an AC 10 in the AC5’s place and boom. also maybe add another Medium Laser to the other arm. still, I see no issues with this mech beyond Ammo.
“OH! but there jump-jets suck!”… they’re not meant to equal the walking, they’re meant to get the shadow hawk to sniping spots where the close range bruisers can’t get it as easily.
Now speaking: Someone who has been playing *BT*, and running *SH*s, since the 1980s.
Sean’s conclusions *are* correct — the *SH* has far too much ammo onboard (the only losses of *SH*s I’ve ever suffered were from ammo-criticals); it suffers from “two ‘Mechs on one frame” syndrome (the AC and LRM can’t effectively back up the SRM and ML, only cover the Min-Range gaps); and its JJs are only really useful for avoiding bad ground. That said: The Kurita variant, although appallingly weak at infighting, is a much-more-usable model, as it only has the one “ammo bomb”. A slight mod of the -2K which I had great success using, swapped the LRM for a pair of MLs and additional JJs; now it could keep up with other Mediums ( I ran a lance of one *Wolverine*, one *Griffin*, and 2 *SH*s), it could reliably do more damage than the -2H at long range (10, vs. 8-10), it *didn’t* have any ammo to blow up, and the MLs covered the PPC’s Minimum-Range gap (and in a pinch could deliver 5-10 more points to a target up-close).
So I look at the *SH* as an example of “First Edition Problems” — ‘Mech designers didn’t quite know what a ‘Mech could do, so ended up building the JOATMON.
You can’t do it in 3025 of course, but just for shits and giggles, anyone tried to swap out the AC/5 and its ammo for a *light* PPC? Same range characteristics, same damage, but you get rid of one ammo bomb and free up tonnage for other stuff (more JJs, another ML…)
Yes, using a 40-ton frame I’d like to cheaply re-do some 55-tonner classics for the modern (ie. cheap) but nostalgic Battlemech Purchaser.
40 tons, 5/8/5 8 tons armor, endo steel gives you 14 tons pod space. double heat sinks.
Shadow Hawk: LL Right arm, LPPC torso, SRM-2 streak 1 ton ammo, LRM-5 one ton ammo, CASE.
Wolverine: LAC5 2 tons ammo-piercing rounds, SRM-6 one ton ammo, 2x ER MLs, 1x SL, CASE.
Griffin: Heavy PPC, LRM-5 one ton ammo, CASE, small laser (OR) 2 x old=school PPCs in the torso
Screw 55 tons. Waste of money. I know the armor piercing ain’t that great but what the hell – maybe it’ll punch through on those Clanner bastards.
Also you can “fix” the OG Rifleman:
300 engine, endo steel, 12 tons armor, leaves you 20 tons (same as a 55 tonner with 11 tons armor).
2 x LLs, 2 x LPPCs, 4x DHS. Now your weapons make 26 heat and you dissipate 28. Run and fire all you want.
Out of the classic 55-ton trio, the Shadow Hawk comes out leagues behind its stable mates. It’s the only one that can’t deal 20 points of damage in a single turn by itself (it can do 19 if all the weapons hit and you max out two missile hit rolls. While the others also require all their weapons to land to cause a PSR, they only need 1 roll on the cluster hits table.), but more than the firepower it’s the jump capacity that lets it down. For some reason, they removed two jump jets, which is a bigger loss than the firepower. 3 jump isn’t useless, but the ability to jump 5 and ensure you always at least break even on TNs is amazing.
But that’s not to say the firepower suite isn’t massively disappointing either.
AC/5: While there is no circumstance where this weapon is “good”, it’s least bad when paired with a heavy energy weapon or LRM battery, providing low-heat augment to firepower at long range. This is not present on the Shadow Hawk.
SRM-2: Again, this is just a terrible weapon. When you account for ammo and the heat sinks needed to fire it, it weighs the same as the medium laser with less damage. The second missile misses more often than not, so it doesn’t even crit seek well.
LRM-5: This is a good weapon, either as a token harrassment or a light augment to heavier long-range guns.
Medium Laser: Again, this is a good weapon, but it can’t carry an upper-end medium by itself. It has to either back up a heavier gun or be mounted en masse.
So what we have here is four backup weapons that don’t even complement each other, and no primary weapon. And it shows with anemic, unfocused firepower. Couple that to the loss of mobility and the SHD-2H is doomed to forever live in the shadow of its cousins of the GRF and WVR series. And it doesn’t even get a good variant like the GRF-1S or the fan favorite WVR-6M. If it had 5 jump jets I’d call the SHD-2K a better sniper than the Griffin because it can maintain a better rate of fire, but again those 5 jump jets are so useful I’d rather put up with the Griffin’s heat issues. Meanwhile, the SHD-2D is an absolute trainwreck that not even Shadow Hawk fans will defend. Let’s remove half the armor to install more short-range popguns! What could possibly go wrong?
I think the biggest issue is the 3:1 ratio of ammo to energy weapons.
Ditch the SRM2 as that’s a death sentence for the pilot, remove the LRM 5 and AC5 and replace them with a Torso mounted PPC, slap on 2 more jump jets, a ML on the right arm, and more heat sinks. suddenly, this machine becomes an energy based sniper along side the Griffin
Oh? you want a front line Trooper?
again, remove the missiles, instead slap an AC 10 on there, jumpjets again, use spare tonnage for Armor because you have 1, maybe 2 MLs that eat the heat alot. keep the Ammo on the center torso, and NOT dispersed around the mech. again, you now have a mech with a real purpose.
The Shadow Hawk is bad in nearly all configurations as its not designed to match good construction setups.
The recurring problem of having too few Jump Jets to match its Walking distance seems to mean its all an intentional joke on the mech.
Its a master of none showed in the best way. Its loaded with more heat sinks than its weapons will overheat. Its got an assortment of weapons but its unable to converge them due to bracketv differences . Its got jump jets but the range is equal to what an Assault mech like the 90ton Highlander has.
I think the core problem is really the shoulder cannon. Its usually a high weight loss that takes away from armor, jump jets, and more light-weight weapons.
I had to play a Shadowhawk for a while in MechForce in the 90s. Yes, I had to because your mech was assigned randomly, which was also the usual way to generate your force back then. You did not choose your mechs, so no one could field a lance of Wolfhounds or something similar (no one would play with you if you did).
So anyway, I played a Shadowhawk in several big battles and racked up quite an amazing kill count because I was completely ignored. As a result, I had an intact mech by the end of the battle, which still had ammunition and did not overheat at all. The low damage of the weapons did not matter much because there were mechs running around with several unarmored locations, and I always had at least one weapon that could shoot at optimal range. The Shadowhawk was excellent at outlasting and then finishing off other mechs in these battles.
You just have to understand that big battles work differently than the usual 10,000 BV deathmatch that people play all the time (I actually find those pretty boring).
If there was any anime universe that established the whole “walking tank” look and feel for the mechs of Battletech/Mechwarrior, it was Fang In The Sun Dougram! The Shadow Hawk, Griffin, Wolverine, Thunderbolt, Battlemaster, Goliath, and Scorpion in their original “unseen/reseen” versions came from it! You feel the dirt and grease on you hands and face with these designs, definitely!
There are options for a Shadow Hawk in 3025.
Yank the heat sinks and the SRM to upgrade the LRM to an LRM-10 and get another medium laser. Yes, you can overheat but you can pretend to be a Griffin at long range and a Wolverine at short range.
Yank the missile weapons for a large laser and you can brawl in the midrange effectively and only worry so much about ammo.
Ah, the Shadow Hawk.
I loathe the thing.
A terrible collection of lousy weapons on a not fast enough, not armored enough clunker.
It doesn’t compare well to similar weighted mechs and it doesn’t to others in specific roles…even the role of an all-rounder.
My favorite encounter with a Shadow Hawk was kicking the head off of one.
Out of the medium mech designs that originally came from Dougram, which is the best in Battletech? The Shadow Hawk? The Griffin? The Wolverine? Which has the best overall record in combat? Hmm?
If you’re talking stock configs, probably the Griffin. If you’re talking canon variants, hard to argue against the Wolverine-M. In fact, I would say that Marik has gotten the Wolverine right every time.
I personally think it’s the Griffin, in all it’s versions and variants! Any other opinions out there?