BattleMechs That Never Worked For You

Have you ever run into BattleMechs that you just don’t get?  Have you heard lots of accolades from other players, but then they never work for you?  They are highly acclaimed in forums and have lots of defenders online, but you’ve always been disappointed from them.

I just don’t understand them.  I’ve tried them, I’ve played with them, and they just never work.  I have a few BattleMechs below that have just never worked for me, no matter how much people might extoll them.  Have they worked for you?

We Built Missile City…

CommandoI get that there are some enthusiasts out there that love their Commandos, with its fast strike capacity and strong weapons payload for a 25 ton unit.   But me?  I’ve never gotten them to work well.  They are too weak in armor, and I’ve always wished they’d be faster, or jump to get a little closer, or to get a little harder to hit.  They can get blasted at range, and they need the right terrain to be feasible.  Commandos – I can’t get them to work.


Pretend the PPC is better than it really is

PantherNope, sorry.  I’d rather have a Wolfhound or a ‘Mech with speed, a big weapon, and some backup weaponry than the PPC on a 4/6 light ‘Mech with one set of SRMs for later.   I can’t ever get the Panther to protect other long range units, it doesn’t have the speed to resist flankers that are coming around, it doesn’t have the short-range weapons to punish interlopers that close, and I’ve just never gotten the annoying little thing to work.  I know that Panthers have a lot of adherents out there, but I’m not one of them.

Just a Bit of Arm Damage Away From Weaponless

WraithNot only is this medium ‘Mech more expensive than some Atlases, but it just never worked for me.  I know, the combination of huge speed and pulse lasers is supposed to give it long game reliably, since it doesn’t worry about ammo, explosions, and the speed helps to keep it from getting it.   I get it.  It’s the annoying fly you can’t kill, and then you die from a thousand cuts.  But I invariably find my Wraiths getting hit too quickly and hurt, or else the pulse lasers are just too far away from useful targets.  Either way, it never really does a lot on the battlefield for me.

Hip to the Hop

GrasshopperI know, it’s time to put on your fightin’ shoes, but the Grasshopper is one ‘Mech I’ve never gotten to work.  Part of its role as a scout hunter has never worked for me with its slower 4/6/4 movement, and it doesn’t have the long range weaponry to compensate.  You have a heavy unit with the arsenal of a medium ‘Mech, No matter how much the fluff of the game may say about its value in flanking or surprising, it’s still just a 4/6/4 unit.  I’ve never been able to get it to work on the battlefield.

Which ‘Mechs never work for you, no matter what others tell you?

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43 thoughts on “BattleMechs That Never Worked For You

  1. Cornelius

    Just a few thoughts:

    Commando needs the right terrain, agreed. But if you get that it’s a mean little machine, just be sure to have an escape route ready.

    Panther is slow – play it so. Not running helps a lot. sometimes standing still is a viable option when rushed, that PPC DOES hurt anything light. Plus min Range 3 ain’t too hard. works for me.

    wraith: stay away with this new stuff – there is no BT after 3025 :P

    Grasshopper has a great rof – but it is NO light hunter, more like a classic brawler. That 4 JJs are only useful in cityfighting. I’m loving the fridge!

    Not working for me are HBK-4G or AS-7D: they rely to much on that AC/20 plus they draw fire. A lot fire.

    Playing MMNet helped me improve on so many Mechs I would never have taken to TT due to their stats.

    1. Abe Sargent Post author

      I’ve played on MMNet here and there too. I like Hunchbacks, even there, for holding a position – you have to respect it’s ability to control the battlefield, and it’s zone of control can change the game, plus it’s durable as all get out.

      You haven;t played any later ‘Mechs? Cause the Wraith is just… minor.

      1. Cornelius

        played some 3050+, just not my cup of tea. Much of the BT flair to me is that LosTech thingy. ;)

        True with the Hunchie and area blocking. I know its mostly me, but I consider that 50t of dead weight.

        Most Mechs have their niche – even the Charger: put it in a lance with juicy targets – it’s BV puts it in Med/Heavy Range – most of your enemies will ignore it and focus on other more dangerous Mechs. Rush in, kick, punch and CHARGE them. It may not be the sturdiest mech around, but its lack of weaponry also means it can do pretty good without arms(just keep kicking) or side torsoes. That charge alone could do up to 56 points of damage – clustered, but that’s still a lot of damage to deal with.

        The good thing with underachievers is: they are not taken serious. Play this to your advantage and you’ll do fine with most Mechs.

        Had a fight (TT) once where a mate stood(!) with an RFL-3N facing a BNC-S. He alphad. Twice. Passed all his saving throws. Guy was lucky as hell but dished out some pretty hefty damage – for a Rifleman that is.

        sure most Mechs could be improved by changing the loadout a bit or adding armor or stuff. But that works for all mechs.

        Back to Topic:
        Urbanmech- it’s just too slow
        Valkyrie – that LRM 10 is a bad joke
        Vulcan – basic loadout is just too mixed
        Dragon-1N – AC/5 is too weak => Grand Dragon way better
        Goliath – just not enough punch for 80 tons
        Cyclops – big “shoot-me-please-I-got-no-armor” sign
        LGB-0W – armor… well no armor
        BNC-3E – weapons? what weapons?

        1. Sam Crosbie

          Ever get punched in the head by an OG Banshee? >.> Nah, all things considered, I agreed with all but two of your choices. The Vulcan was designed as an anti-infantry mech, pure and simple. And it excels at that roll. The AC/2 is perfect for annoying ICVs and light tanks. Sure, 2 pips isn’t much, but the chance for an immobilizing crit, or a turret freeze is worth it. As is plinking an infantry mob out in the open. >.> The Valkyrie…ahhh she’s a beaut. IF used correctly. The Val is designed as a penultimate light mech killer. And it succeeds. If the mech is 20 tons or so. ANYTHING heavier, you have issues. Which is what makes the later-version valkyries so nice. LRM-15 anyone?

  2. Carlos Curiel

    The Clan Nova Omni-mech, lots and lots of medium clan lasers and not even the heat dissipation capability to use half of them, also all its weapons are on the arms, no FF or endo-steel, it is the only omnimech that was build with old technology, never understood why.
    Any ‘Mech with MASC, 2 times I activated the darn thing and got a 2 on the dice, talking about making insta-scrap in the middle of the board.
    And finally, the Charger, 80 tons and only 5 small lasers, what a waste of design, I understand this is an anti-scout mech but that make it useless in battle, may as well just charge from enemy to enemy as the name intended, otherwise a waste of resourses.

    1. Abe Sargent Post author

      I agree on the Charger. I think we are all seriously wondering what happened there.

      1. Alex Ward

        I suspect the Charger is the same design process that led to the Hollander and the Locust. ie, we have a set number of variables (weapons, speed, tonnage, armor) and the best designs will fall in a certain range. What happens when we go to an extreme? Can we make an assault mech fast and find a role for it, or a light mech absurdly fast and still make it some kind of threat? Or I guess to put it simply, is there an answer for a question that no one will ever ask?

  3. Raymond

    I’ve only ever seen a Grasshopper really do well as a front-line brawler; Getting in close and using its fists to punch people and torso lasers to melt face.

    Everything else on this list I’ve only ever seen perform poorly.

    1. Abe Sargent Post author

      Yeah, and that’s true of other “bad design” heavier ‘Mehchs, like the Charger. But I know a lot of folks that really love the Grasshopper, and despite running it, I’ve never seen it.

      Maybe I’m missing something :)

  4. Andy Hasara

    The Panther is a niche ‘Mech. It works best in 3025 as defense for a medium support lance. The advantage of its maxed out armor and big-hole generating PPC combined with the ability to run and fire every time is good, but it’s slow speed means that it should not stray far from it’s lancemates. It was strongest in a time when games were balanced by tonnage of the ‘Mechs: it has a Medium mech’s firepower, armor and movement for a light ‘Mech’s tonnage. It’s advantage is best seen when stock 3025 scout ‘Mech meet the Panther in an ambush.

    1. Abe Sargent Post author

      I hear ya. And if a Panther is, say, guarding a set position, or only dealing with lighter ‘Mechs in a battlefield where they can’t flank it, then sure. But at that point, you basically have turned the Panther into a mobile turret in order to make it work. To my mind, after trying it a few times, I’ve never really gotten useful results.

  5. Rich Silk

    The Nova (“Black Hawk”) Prime is super heat inefficient.

    Panthers can be useful with the right tactics. Use them to supplement Warhammers, Marauders, etc.

    My definition of useless mechs are:
    -Any Light mech that goes less than 6/9/6 (Yeah, I know, right after I defended Panthers)
    -Any Assault machine w/ less than 60% possible armor.

  6. Aemielius

    Sometimes you have to consider the name of the ‘Mech as a clue as to how it should be used.
    A traditional commando (human) is a fast moving, deep infiltration, quick strike type of soldier. Terrain may impose a few limits but nothing that cannot be overcome.
    So for your Commando ‘Mech, reconfigure: Lose the missile launcher in the Center Torso, mount 4 Med Lasers & move what you can to the Center Torso, maximize armour, and use any remain weight allowance for extra heat sinks or a larger engine if you can shoehorn it in. The added speed helps overcome the terrain factor
    This takes away the potential of ammo cooking of under you cockpit and effectively turns the arms into another layer of armour, while protecting your weapons. If you insist on keeping the missiles, move them to the arms and store your ammo there as well.

    A Panther is a big, heavy, hunting cat that most often hunts from ambush, using its size and weight to drive its prey to the ground.
    Same thing with ‘Mech version. Use that big, heavy PPC from ambush, take a couple of quick shots and slip back under cover and move to a new ambush site.

    Never played in a Wraith…not a fan of Capellan designs.

    Chassis I have been killed in the most is the Clan Hellbringer. Seems like no matter how I configure it, heat is always an issue and no matter how I paint it there is a target dead in the middle of my back, it is like every shot in a 5km radius is attracted to the Hellbringer.

    1. Abe Sargent Post author

      While it’s certainly true that you could swap the weapons for the Commando to improve it at what it does, you can do that with anything. Move the ammo in the torso for the Marauder. Move the weapons of the hatchet arm for a unit that has them there. That sort of thing. But as is I have never found the Commando to be useful given its stated role.

  7. Rayne Vickers

    Oddly enough,

    This list holds true for MWO (Mechwarrior Online) as much as it does Tabletop. We don’t have the Wraith, is the only exception. I’m sure it would suck if we did.

  8. Grey Griffin

    The Panther really lives in the Battletech universe more than it lives in the typical game. In a situation where you are facing mostly light and medium ‘mechs that are less than State of the Art, the Panther has a strong role to play. A PPC is a big deal in games with low tons and low tech.

  9. Nightsong

    I’m not huge on the standard Grasshopper, but the -5N is a flashbulb nightmare that is actually rather oversinked for a ’25-level ‘Mech. PPC, 5 MLs and 22 heat sinks make it a brute in the vein of what is essentially a jump capable and slightly lighter Battlemaster.

  10. Warsong

    I think, that you have to understand especially the Mechs from 3025 in the LosTech szenario.
    Other than in today’s usual games or stories you normally encounter around 45% of light Mechs, 30% to 35% of Mediums, 20% of Heavies and the rest Assaults. I have to had if there are even Mechs…
    And if you put on your “RPG-Glasses” then many Mechs become more logical. For example: I played in a RPG/BT Campaign a Character with a Stinger-FLUM. Obviously not that mean mech or fighter but in a RPG the flexibility of the design ruled (as long as nobody manged a hit..)!

    The Panther is good example.
    In that era many of the new Mechs the Dracs are producing are Panthers. So you sometimes have whole units that entirelly consist of Panthers. And have a look at the Lights. How many are there with a little reach on the Battlefield? Not too many.
    And 4 PPCs from a Lance are hurting another light formation a lot.

    Just my 5 Cents

  11. Jason Weiser

    Enforcer- As a Davion player, I love Autocannons, love, love, love them. Problem with the Enforcer? It is really hard to do much more than snipe with it, and even that, you won’t do a whole lot of damage. The Gauss Rifle variant with the TC, now that is an inspired idea! I have played that and what a difference! Whoever designed the 5D? They should be shot as a traitor to the realm. Only way an Enforcer works IMO is in pairs.

    Valkyire – Too slow to catch any light mechs, and the LRM 10 really isn’t a great weapon for scout killer. It works well as a light fire support mech…lots of people misuse it based on the 3025 fluff.

    1. Cornelius

      Enforcers work! Range profile matches – perfect.

      Again I advise using it as Brawler not as Sniper – it can hold itself a while against a TDR so not that bad. just try to stay in 4-5 hexes. JJs help there.

  12. Mikeintheqtr

    The Panther needs to be taken in the context (3025) in which it was designed – like the Vindicator, another light ‘mech with a PPC. Before XL engines and endo-steel, these two designs were killers. Slow, especially for the weight, I know. Heck, once you throw later tech in, especially Clan designs, even the Battlemaster with its single PPC, SRM-6 and 4 forward facing medium lasers, is woefully underpowered for an 85 ton ‘mech.

    How about the Wolverine? Or it’s similarly weak brother, the Shadow Hawk? AC/5, SRM-6/LRM-5+SRM-2, medium laser, 5/8/5 for a 55 ton mech. It’s maneuverable enough to avoid getting pounded by assault mechs, but anything heavy with range or lighter with better weaponry, especially post-3025 designs, can give either of these two classics a rough time. They’re best at plinking 5 points of armor off weakly armored light designs at range – but what 55 ton ‘mech
    can’t turn a Wasp to scrap?

    The Rifleman is another design that needs to be employed properly – it’s too slow to escape and way too lightly armored to stand up to anything around its weight class. (Well, except a Wolverine or Shadow Hawk, snark)

    And the Charger, even though it wasn’t included in the article but instead in the comments, was included in 3025 as a more or less useless design – it pretty much said so in the Tech Readout. A heavily armored 5/8 “scout” with firepower that barely exceeds a Locust’s. No one could make lemonade from that pile of dung. The only reason to shoot at the thing, for an opposing player, is that if you let it get to close, it still IS an 80 ton mech and can dish out serious physical attack damage – and can close quick, for something that size, at 5/8. Maybe there’s an ounce or two of lemonade, after all. Not much, though.

    1. Abe Sargent Post author

      I think context matters a lot too, but I still haven’t got a lot of value from a Panther in the 3025 era either.

  13. Chris Price

    For me, it’s the Panther. The 3050 Panther is “Useless-plus”… it has endo-steel frame, Artemis-IV on its SRMs, an ER PPC that kicks out 15 heat a shot… and single heat sinks. So even if it stands still, it builds heat with each shot, and it still doesn’t do any more damage than the 3025 version.
    The second one that doesn’t work is the Shadow Hawk. It’s got a set of pop-guns that pose no credible threat at any range. Unless your name is Grayson Carlyle…

  14. Stu

    I like being the underdog, and so for my leader I chose the Banshee 3E based on the fluff. And it’s true – it just doesn’t have the sniping weapons to work, and the closer you get to the enemy to use it’s famous physical attacks, the worse they get. That’s all fine, it’s what I expected, but the cost of the mech in both cbills and BV is pretty high, which really surprised me and means that in competitive games I rarely field it.
    On a slight side note, I went Capellan and changed it to a BAN-3Q with an AC20. It makes it a one trick poney (a super Hunchback!) but psychologically people are terrified of it. I use it to dare opponents to close, or charge in break up formations.

  15. Flashfreeze

    I use the listed ‘Mechs in vastly different roles than they tend to be indicated for, with the possible exception of the Grasshopper. I think the other relevant thing to consider is that very rarely is a ‘Mech sent out alone. I always take units in the context of who their wingmen or lancemates will be. At the very least, I try to consider what to ‘Mech will likely be paired with, which often really opens up their potential uses.

    Commando: I see scout and skirmisher as the roles most commonly mentioned for it, but I use the Commando not for its power, but its spread. I employ it primarily for finishing opponents–once another ‘Mech has popped enough holes in a target, I bring the Commando in and start fishing for crits with the SRMs. The Javelin is in a similar boat for me, but buys its higher agility with a much hotter heat curve.

    Panther: Sniper is the way to go, sure, but I use it more as a bully, very similar to the Vindicator. It’s definitely slow, but so are a lot of mediums in 3025, and a lot of people don’t like taking 10-point hits in any era. I usually set up the Panther behind cover or on the edge of forests and use it to lock down the area against light to medium weight elements. I buddy-up Panthers and Whitworths together for just such purpose.

    Wraith: You’ll hear “flanker” and “scout hunter,” but have you considered employing it against battle armor? It isn’t as efficient at it as the Komodo and a lot more expensive than needed, certainly, but I’ve had great success in sending the Wraith to chew up multiple points of Elementals. Its armor is just thick enough to hold off repeated SRM hits, and I find that its weapons still outrange standard Elementals with ease.

    Grasshopper: Ah yes, in the brawler role, that I’ll agree with. I’m probably like most people there in that regard. Run close, fire all lasers, kick. Rather like the Guillotine in that regard. The other use I have for it is hunting 3025 mediums. With its armor, weaponry, and the fact that a surprising number of mediums are 4/6/* the Grasshopper can really put some hurt on the stock 55-ton trio and most stock 50-tonners as well.

    My trouble ‘Mechs are kind of an eclectic bunch, but here goes.

    Spider: The 3025 era variants and I have never gotten along. It’s fast, but you usually have to stay moving, often with jump on full to keep it alive. This tends to ruins the to-hits with its MLs, meaning that it’s little more than a poking stick in a fight. It can threaten a rear, but you usually have to get a lot nearer than is healthy for it. I do better with the later C3-enabled versions, because few things are quite as funny as turning what should be a hail-mary across 20 hexes into an easy 7 hex shot for a friendly missile boat.

    Assassin: I want to like it, I really do, but the stock armor counts so heavilly against it that I just can’t bring myself to enjoy it as anything more than an underdog. Not a bad scout, but even when I put them in cover, they just lose legs too often for me to feel comfortable with it. I try to pair them with Jenners to keep them honest, but the same argument applies there too: 6 armor on a leg is just not enough for these guys.

    Bombardier: I think my complaint is the same as everyone else’s, in that it has far too little ammo for its LRMs. Having twelve total shots is almost criminal, and I honestly would have preferred to trade everything else it has for more ammo. Even the SRMs could be another 18 shots, or 12 additional shots plus a heat sink or medium laser. I’ve never found myself in a situation where the stock Bombardier was a good choice. Most of the time I just find myself wishing for an Archer or even a Crusader or Catapult instead.

    Kit Fox: 6/9/0 and about 4 tons of armor is just not the sort of thing that should be carrying that much firepower, especially at over 1000 BV each. It’s just big enough to start taking a lot of PPC and large laser hits, and just small enough for any of those hits to be a serious problem. My response is to take the D variant and throw LRMs til the cows come home, but that still draws fire like no one’s business.

    Goliath: I never got along with any Goliath, but especially not the 3M. One of TRO 3050’s most notorious stinkers and an elephantine death-trap on feet. I don’t think that much more needs to be said.

    Shogun: Undersinked and overhyped as Dragoons tech. The 2E is sighingly tolerable, but the 2F is kind of a mess that I could never seem to use effectively. Not enough ammo for the LRMs, again, as well as the high crime of an ER PPC but no double heat sinks. Together, this brings its average damage way down below what I think is really acceptable for something that weighs 85 tons with a BV2 rating just over 1800.

    1. Abe Sargent Post author

      I adore that you really spent some time fleshing out your post and answers – thanks! I’m honored that my lil’ ol’ post got you thinking and I really appreciate that you took the time for a measured and thoughtful response. Thanks!

      I try not to judge quad mechs to the same standards because I want to be fair, so I skipped Scorpion/Goliath in my head for that reason, but the Goliath is certainly nothing to write home about.

      I’ve also never been a fan of ‘Mechs that are one weight class heavier than another being designed to hunt down lower ones. So what if your 70 ton Grasshopper can take out a 50 ton mech? Shouldn’t it already? So does my Warhmammer or Guillotine and those aren’t specially designed to hunt down those folks either, you know?

      Anyways, enough on that. Shogun and Assassin, sure sure. Although I think the Spider is really good and I adore it. I want to have it’s babies. The 3025 one is great.

      1. Flashfreeze

        You’re welcome. I really enjoy thinking about this sort of thing, because I’m honestly a fan of exploring concepts and things people sometimes take for granted–equal parts rooting for the underdog and mild schadenfreude when they work and catch someone by surprise.

        In regards to bigger units efficiently destroying smaller ones, you’re right in that any respectable 3025 heavy can kill any given medum, but I think the deciding factor for me is how long they can sustain the hunt. In my time with them, I’ve found a Grasshopper or Guillotine (the two are effectively interchangable in how I play them) can fight and kill mid to topweight mediums without retreating for longer than a Warhammer or Marauder due to their better heat curves, higher mobility, and overall thicker armor than their Unseen peers. This goes double once melee attacks are factored in too, since the Grasshopper or Guillotine’s loadouts are well suited for engaging at knife-fighting range.

        I feel it’s proper to call the Grasshopper and Guillotine medium-hunters as well as skirmishers because they can keep up the pressure longer by maintaining constant engagement (where the Marauder may need to cool off or the Warhammer’s armor might not hold as well) and thus disable larger numbers of mediums to thin the opponent’s ranks. Even its CCG page on the wiki here calls it a ‘high intensity fighter,’ which I think sums it up nicely–its intensity is more than even the better 3025 mediums can handle for long, which allows the Grasshopper to hunt down multiple mediums in succession. Obviously all bets are off if it gets ganged up on, but to be fair that’s true for most ‘Mechs I think.

        How do you deploy the Spider that makes it so useful to you? I’m genuinely curious, because my attempts to backstab with it tend to result in it getting shot down far too often for my tastes, and I’m not particularly fond of indirect LRM fire. This is why I ended up preferring its C3 variants, which simply need to have good positioning to be an abominable pest, a task that I find the Spider has no problems with at all. (I will also say that I am absurdly fond of the Jihad-era SDR-8X, for very similar, 12-hexes-of-jumping-related reasons.)

        1. Abe Sargent Post author

          I like the Spider a lot in 3025 era, when the speed is really unfettered. The double mediums do yeoman’s work for that time too. Depending on the terrain and my lancemates, I like to use it to force opposing units to play honest by respecting the potential for a back attack and punches. Don’t forget to pick up a tree to smash someone with occasionally. I love to use it to hunt down fast lightly armored hovercraft, it can winnow down folks, and you get a very-hard-to-hit +4 to move when you jump 7 or 8, then add in terrain and Spiders are basically really hard to hit like a durable VTOL. I get a lot of value from them on MMNet, real life, and more. Anyways, that’s my .10

          1. CarcerKango

            Spiders make for funny commanding units for light lances. Just run, sprint, or jump constantly and you’re holding onto that victory condition.

  16. Andrew Schupska

    For me, it’s the Loki/Hellbringer.

    It doesn’t really have the maneuverability to avoid being hit, and there are Inner Sphere Medium-weight mechs with better armor protection. The primary configuration has some value as a sniper, but if anything is returning fire, the Loki will be sporting two engine criticals in the second round of combat.

  17. L1011Widebody

    Surprised the Hellbringer (Loki) is not getting more mention… what in gods name is the point of having nearly half your weight in pod space if you’ve got the armor of a ‘Mech half its tonnage? It’s got 20% less armor than the five-tons lighter Mad Dog, and that’s a fire support Omnimech with an armor load that still makes me slightly nervous.

    All agreed on the Nova, why would you put Jump Jets on something that can’t even use half its weapons without generating excess heat? Five tons more and you can get the more-maneuverable and heavier armed Stormcrow Omnimech.

    Another ‘Mech of limited use for me is the Fire Moth. For one thing it wastes an entire ton on that useless MASC system that cripples your ‘Mech seemingly half the time, and for another, why in bloody blazes do you need MASC on a 10/15 chassis in the first place? The thing can out-run and outgun a Hussar as is, why not drop the MASC and add more armor? Sure it’s hard to hit but all you need is one shot and its already holed. Of course, when the *other* player is using it you never seem to be able to hit it…

    Also agreed on the Kit Fox. The primary configuration has a mix of weapons of discordant range envelopes… sure, the Large Pulse is nice to have on a ‘Mech that size, but if you’re engaging other Clan units, they’ll almost certainly have something with a range long enough to strike back. And if you’re engaging IS units, a 6/9 movement rate on a 30 ton ‘Mech is probably not going to keep you out of the enemy’s firing range. You’d need to get to medium range to make the LB-10X even remotely worth using, and at that point, you’ve just about opened yourself up to the IS’s Medium Laser, and that’ll poke holes in a Kit Fox in no time.

    Back to the Level 1 subject though, someone mentioned the Spider. Whee, 8 jumping points every turn! But you’re still looking at something with only two tons of weapons, and even then with only 10 heat sinks you’re looking at a +4 heat every turn you try and use the Jets and both Medium Lasers. You can’t even fire one weapon and use all the Jets in a turn if you want to lose heat, and those turns of just running and jumping are going to seem really long in a ‘Mech with less armor than the Locust.

  18. James

    The Gladiator Prime, 2 LB-5X autocannons, 2 SRM-6s and an ER Small Laser. Weakest firepower on a Clan assault mech that I’ve ever seen. You’d be lucky to beat a medium let alone something like a heavy or assault mech

  19. Offio

    Panther- Never liked it tabletop. Works like a champ in MW2 Mercs Video game, but that was it.

    Wraith – as built? sucks. Swap the lasers for their Clan counterparts and add a C3 slave? now it will do something, even if that something is only give the fire support mechs better targeting data!

    Nova/Blackhawk, Yeah, prime variant is under heatsinked BADLY. A couple of the variants are good tho.

    I agree with the folks that are saying some of these are only good in 3025-ish era. By 3055 they are deathtraps for the most part.

  20. Wick

    For tactical purposes: Kit Fox. It’s go so much pod space that most configs are based around a big gun (Gauss Rifle, ER PPC, AC10, LL, etc.) in an effort to topple bigger mechs. But big gun + little armor = target. And usually loses the arm the big gun is mounted in too early in the fight to make a difference. Kit Fox is especially bad when put side by side with the equally-weighted Devil, which also mounts a big gun (ER PPC), is much faster (10/15), better armored, and more accurate (targetting computer)

    For luck: Shadow Cat Prime. Just about every damned time I get my gauss rifle shot off or the MASC freezes up. Usually get my RT blown out first, leaving me with only a medium laser (and then the MASC freezes up.) I can’t win with it but its so hard to pass on a fast, jumping gauss slinger.

  21. NinetyNineTails

    The HBK-4G and I don’t get along. It’s such an all-or-nothing ‘mech. I’ve had it hit me on 8+ three turns in a row and devastate me. I’ve also seen it miss two 7+ and a a 6+ three turns running and be completely ineffective.

  22. Donald Paper

    I have always been underwhelmed by the GRF-1N Griffin. It felt like it needed to be 10 tons lighter, or just 10 tons worth of better!

  23. Cokien

    The GRF-1N Griffin.

    Basically, I like the Mech very much. It has decent speed, a sound armor protection, a good medium to long-range weaponry, and, above all, it is quite common in the LCAF.

    However, the Mechs long-range weaponry proofed to be its undoing (for me, it is), since its BV 2.0 is exorbitant high. In fact, a GRF-1N costs almost as much BV 2.0 than a WHM-6R Warhammer. In most fights, I will prefer the Warhammer, though, since it has slightly more armor (even if its not much for a Mech of its weightclass), more medium to longrange firepower, and even a respectable shortrange arsenal. In addition, other 50 to 60t-Mechs are quite similar, but cost less. Thus, I’d prefer a TBT-5N Trebuchet, a DV6-M Dervish, a SHD-2H Shadow Hawk, a WVR-6R Wolverine, or a GRF-1S Griffin to a GRF-1N Griffin alomost every day of the week.

    Btw, I like the COM-2D Commando und the CGR-1A1 Charger very much :)

  24. netcat


    It may well be that I am simply not the fire support guy (and certainly I am not Jaime Wolf or Morgan Kell), but that ‘Mech never worked for me. With the obvious potential of wreaking havoc even on some medium size ‘Mechs and soften up even Assault ‘Mechs, I simply never had the feeling of bringing the Archer-2R to its full potential. I always preferred the CRD-3R: Almost protected as good as the ARC, but much, much more versatile, and the SRMs always worked for me to give the extra punch I needed. Something in which the ARCs failed me miserably. Protecting it against flanking almost always put me into a rather defensive position and I lost my momentum. With the momentum lost and bogeys in close range to

    I know some people will get wild about this, but IMHO this Mech is crap. As someone pointed out in an earlier comment, firepower lacking adequate protection paints a big target mark on the mech. While in theory the Jenner is a serious scout killer, more often than not it was killed in the early stages of a match, and it always was so crippled that it wasn’t of much use.
    The ‘Mech may have some worth in double-blind matches, if played carefully. Which I didn’t do, ending up in a one-on-one with a BLR-1G “Battlemaster” face-to-face in an unlucky turn of events. The “Jenner” was simply kicked to literal pieces.

    To me, the “Jenner” is an under protected Scout Hunter with a big target mark on it, being the primary candidate for each and every long range weapon, preventing the “Jenner” from fulfilling its primary role. When crippled, it’s lack of medium and long range weapons make it more or less a sitting duck or outright useless.

    I have not been able to overcome this problem, and tended to use heavier ‘Mechs like the ENF-4R or the SHD-2H to hunt down scouts. I always chose ‘Mechs for that role which would be able to support the other ‘Mechs in the unit after the scouts were dealt with. I use light Mechs for other roles, like long range harrasing (VLK-QA) or electronic warfare (RVN-3L, of course).

    To make a long story short: I think the Jenner is crap for its intended role unless played against a brain dead, and can’t be used properly in alternate roles.

    Dire Wolf

    Granted, this boy packs a massive punch into a frame which is able to take severe punishment. But it never worked for me, since even in Clan vs IS it can be easily outmaneuvered, not to mention Clan vs Clan. The lack of mobility effectively halves the weapon load out the “Dire Wolf” can bring into the game against enemies. Another easy tactic is to use mobility advantages to fall back fast enough so the “Dire Wolf” can not keep up, some sort of “divide et impera”. Zellbrigen practically eliminates the possibility that someone will help the outmaneuvered ‘Mech, as it would be standard procedure for IS units.

    Because of this mobility issues, I was never able to use the “Dire Wolf” efficiently against any opponent. Why should I use a “Dire Wolf” when I can have an “Warhawk” or even an “Executioner” (which – to remind you – is an Assault ‘Mech which is next to impossible to outmaneuver over extended periods of time), with less tonnage, but much better thought out.

  25. Pat Rich

    The one mech I seem to have horrible luck with is the Marauder, every time I try to use one, it’s destroyed early in the game, and the one time I ever lost to the computer in Megamek was when I fielded a lance of MADs against a Grasshopper and Nightstar backed by vehicles with AC/2s. (Lost half of my lance and their pilots just trying to cross a body of shallow water.)

    1. netcat

      I am not a fan of the MAD either, especially not in pure lances. While MAD surely can fight on its own, I have always made the experience that it performs best in a unit of mixed capabilities.

      IMHO, the lance put against you was cleverly selected: the AC/2s can put a lot of ammo in the air to soften you up, the Nighstar can give you severe beating while you close in (which you have to do, since otherwise the AC/2s will get really annoying) and the highly mobile Grasshopper to mop up everything that managed to make it to your optimal range. Additionally, all those units are pretty heat efficient, able to keep up (almost) constant fire with all weapons, whereas your MADs… …well, not so much.
      Forcing you to cross a river, which makes it more likely that your upper section (read: your main weapons) get hit with the Gauss Rifles or the ER-PPC was a good move by your opponent, to. Just from what you wrote, I am not sure weather this could be blamed on the MAD, but on the situation. Sure, being smart afterwards is always easy, but exchanging one of your MADs for some Savannah Masters (6 for BV2.0) would most likely have turned the tide: your Masters could have simply rushed the AC/2s (hovering across the river), taking away the opponents possibility to fill the air with ammo cheaply. After the AC/2s are taken out, your MADs (presumably of the 2R variant) field 6 ER-PPCs and 3 AC/5s in three different targets against 2 Gauss Rifles and an ER-PPC in a sitting duck, so you could initiate a long range battle here. The opponents only choice to keep momentum is to use the Grasshopper to harass you and provide fire support with the Nighstar, a situation you should be able to deal with.

      Maybe it is a good idea in general if people for which a mech doesn’t work explain how they use it and others help with their opinion.


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