Category talk:Clan Goliath Scorpion BattleMechs

I am curious as to how this list was compiled. The Pinion and Spirit do not belong, being exclusive Jade Falcon second line battlemechs and produced by Olivetti Weapons on Sudeten in the Inner Sphere during the 3060s. It's very unlikely that Clan Goliath Scorpion would ever have the opportunity to field these in its Touman. I have a more comprehensive list of Goliath Scorpion omnimechs and battlemechs from the 'Warden Clans' sourcebook, which I will add to this list. -- James Benedict

This is a category list,which is tags essentially to individual articles found on Sarna.Net. Their added by the individual editor or casual poster who cites a source. I'd check out the source, since Sarna doesn't necessary make definitive lists. I agree the Pinion and Spirit aren't part of the Goliath's touaman. They may have been added in error. -- Wrangler (talk) 23:58, 26 April 2019 (EDT)
A lot of mistakes slip in to the 'Mech categories due to the span of centuries covered by the BTU nothing really stays that exclusive. As such in the 3060s the Pinion and Spirit will of been exclusive, but by the 3140s some will of been salvaged, stolen, sold and any other number of methods of ownership change. On the wiki historically there has been a sort of slowmotion turf war over the 'Mech categories being "used by" or "Manufactured by". Personally I take the view that we do not need to try to out MUL the MUL, so the only things that should be in this category (and any specific faction category) are 'Mechs directly manufactured by the faction or for the faction. Saves things that get a lot of use like the Phoenix Hawk showing up in virtually every 'Mech category--Dmon (talk) 00:26, 27 April 2019 (EDT)
I agree that this category should probably include only those mechs that were manufactured by or for, and or else are unique to, specific clans to avoid redundancy and overly long lists. Concerning this particular list for the Goliath Scorpions, I have done a lot of research on the clan over the past year and have its front and second line battlemech tables from the 'Warden Clans Field Manual' (pp. 172-173) and the 'MechWarrior's Guide to the Clans' (pp. 12-13) right here in front of me, which present an interesting mix of familiar and unusual. Generally, it seems, the Goliath Scorpions do not produce very many of their own mechs but either buy them from other clans or take them as isorla following battles or trials of possession. They also use restored Exodus-era battlemechs due to their passion (or obsession) for SLDF history, or upgraded IIC versions thereof, like the Hunchback IIC or Commando IIC. The sourcebook 'The Clans--Warriors of Kerensky' (pp. 81-83) also states that the Scorpions' Touman is "overloaded" with conventional ground forces with fewer mechs than the other clan Toumans and that their nomadic nature has "hampered" their technological and economic development. Consequently, I'll undertake a survey of all my other sourcebooks and try to update this list with mechs that are directly associated with Clan Goliath Scorpion, per Dmon's criteria. In the meantime, I do recommend the removal of the Pinion and the Spirit from this list since there is no source cited for their inclusion, and I see no way in which the Scorpions could have ever acquired them, being abjured in 3079 and then conquering Nueva Castile in 3080 to create the Escorpión Imperio, far away from the Falcons in the Inner Sphere. But, being the new guy here, I'll respectfully leave that for the senior editors to decide.--james benedict (talk) 09:43, 27 April 2019 (EDT)
Just bear in mind, the "Warden" and "Crusader" thing is essentially brief sub-factional thing. Their not so much a factor anymore and mainly during the Clan Invasion Era. -- Wrangler (talk) 10:14, 27 April 2019 (EDT)