Talk:1st Thorin Regiment

Since they're the same unit, I propose that this article be merged into Thorin FTM. --Scaletail 18:09, 4 March 2009 (PST)

IIRC (hard to check at work) Field Manual: Updates list them as the Thorin FTM again too. Cyc 19:46, 4 March 2009 (PST)

The 1st Thorin consists of the original Thorin FTM and various other rebells. Later "Archer's Avengers" spread to two further regiments: the Muphrid-Rangers and the Minutemen.

From what I have heard in a forum, The Muphrid-Rangers and the Minutemen stayed on Twycross after the CJF-incursion, while the 1st Thorin flew back to aid Victor. The Muphrid-Rangers and the Minutemen were destroyed by Clan Diamond Shark when it took over Twycross. The 1st Thorin went back to it's original role of defending Thorin.

Maybe it was renamed to Thorin FTM in that process.

I would keep these two units seperate (at least for now) because I think, it would add additional confusion as long as the articles are not finished. --Detlef 04:28, 5 March 2009 (PST)

The listing in Field Manual: Updates reads "Better known as Archer's Avengers, the Thorin FTM is the only regional militia regarded as a front-line unit by the LAAF, its performance against the Fifteenth Arcturan, Snords' Irregulars and the Jade Falcons earning the unit a solid reputation in the short time of its existence as an independent formation."

The way I understand it, the 1st Thorin Regiment/Thorin Militia became Archer's Avengers during the FCCW so that they could technically be part of a foreign military. Following the end of that war and their reintegration into the LAAF, the unit became the Thorin FTM. --Scaletail 19:02, 5 March 2009 (PST)

First the Thorin FTM was part of the LAAF. Then it went renegade. Then it became part of the 1st Thorin Regiment of the unofficial AFFS (of the then-non-existing FedSun) of Victor during the FedCom Civil War. That means, that after the FCCWar the 1st Thorin re-joined the LAAF and was renamed to Thorin FTM. --Detlef 03:25, 6 March 2009 (PST)

So, we have a Thorin FTM page which mentions all that and a redirect for the 1st Thorin Regiment to that entry, two separate articles is too confusing, especially for a different name that lasted lasted only a tiny amount of time.Cyc 05:16, 6 March 2009 (PST)

Okay, but then we will need 3 separate info-boxes because of the name-change. --Detlef 08:15, 6 March 2009 (PST)

Which raises a question, what is the consensus/policy on such unit name changes? Box for each name/era, or single box detailing unit as of newest year? So far only 21st Centauri Lancers is only one I can find which uses more than one box Cyc 12:07, 6 March 2009 (PST)

The MercInfoBoxes were created to be used in multiple. Black Thorns also uses them that way. They are meant to capture the Field Manual-style "snapshot in time" of the unit. The various names this unit is known by can be explained in the text of the article. --Scaletail 07:55, 7 March 2009 (PST)

What I've been doing is using the latest status of the unit in question. In this case, I'd make "Thorin Freedom Theater Militia" the title of the article, with Archer's Avengers and other names the redirect. Then, as Scaletail said, name changes can be dealt with in the body of the article. Alkemita 15:22, 4 April 2009 (PDT)

Go ahead. I'd like this matter cleared, before I add the infos of the novel "Operation Audacity" (maybe somewhen this month). --Detlef 04:30, 5 April 2009 (PDT)

I'm not sure if that should be done. Archer's Avengers or the 1st Thorin Regiment were considered to be Federated Suns unit. Though the unit was listed again as Lyran unit after FedCom Civil War. It was clear for legal reasons in Measure of a Hero. The unit was acting under command of Prince Victor Steiner-Davion as AFFS, not LAAF so they treated prisoners of war instead of terrorist. Someone may want read and go over Pardoe's Battlecorp story which expanded on what happened later to 1st Thorin when they were involved in landings on New Avalon City in final battle of war. -- Wrangler 16:44, 5 April 2009 (PDT)

1st Thorin/Thorin FTM

I'd like to point out and make clear that the Thorin FTM did not exist prior to September 15th, 3067. On that day the 1st Thorin Regiment, along with the remnants of the 2nd Regiment (Muphrid Rangers) and the 3rd Regiment (The Minutemen) were mustered out of service. Archer Christifori, in his farewell speech, made clear that some officers were given positions in the new Thorin FTM, and others were encouraged to join. This is all per the Battlecorps story by Blaine Lee Pardoe, 'The Longest Road.'

Prior to Christifori's revolt against Katherine Steiner-Davion, the Thorin militia was just a planetary militia like any to be found on the hundreds of worlds in the Lyran Alliance. It mustered no more than a combined-arms battalion. A Theater Militia unit, like its FedSuns March Militia counterpart, would field a mech regiment, 2 armor regiments, an aerospace brigade, and 3 infantry regiments.

So, in conclusion, the articles should be appropriately edited to establish that there was no Thorin FTM prior to 3067, and that the 1st Thorin Regiment was established from a planetary militia. 76.236.180.82 19:59, 16 April 2009 (PDT)

We're back to square one again. There was a Thorin FTM prior to 3067 for decades, during the early stages of the Civil war they rebelled and renamed themselves the 1st Thorin Regiment/Archer's Avengers, and after the Civil War was over most of that unit was renamed the Thorin FTM again. This is the problem, admittedly they had a notable time under another name, but for the majority of their existence they were the Thorin FTM. Cyc 20:07, 16 April 2009 (PDT)

What is your source for that? Because I looked through the old Lyran sourebook on ClassicBattletech.com, and there is no mention of a Thorin FTM. And I looked through Shattered Sphere, and again there is no Thorin FTM. And I re-read Measure of a Hero, and again no Thorin FTM. It was just a regular planetary militia, much like the one's they themselves later faced on Milton, Alcor, and Odessa. 76.235.169.95 17:44, 17 April 2009 (PDT)

Unfortunately I misread their listing in Field Manual: Lyran Alliance, they're just marked as Thorin Milita not Thorin FTM in that. Cyc 20:45, 17 April 2009 (PDT)

Proposed Renaming

I propose that we rename this article from "1st Thorin Regiment" to simply "Archer's Avengers".

Two main reasons:

1. To eliminate the confusion with the Thorin FTM.

2. So that the article can encompass information for all 3 Avenger regiments, not just the 1st.

Thoughts? --99.60.127.184 20:37, 12 March 2010 (UTC)

I can't comment on this, as it is not something I'm knowledgeable about. Hopefully, my posting here will be seen by others who might weigh in, but I'd also recommend you contact any of the Editors who took part in the above discussion.--Revanche ^{(talk|contribs)} 15:00, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

Alright, I registered. I'm going to get on it.Huronwarrior 18:14, 18 March 2010 (UTC)

Not only do I agree, I would propose that all articles relating to A2 be merged into "Archer's Avengers". --Scaletail 03:09, 19 March 2010 (UTC)

I agree that this article should be merged with an "Archer's Avengers" article, and for a redirect to be set up. Obviously, the Thorin Militia was around long before the FC Civil War, but its not like they were doing much that made it into a novel. ;) ClanWolverine101 04:02, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

Twelve Years Later, Consensus?

Alright, looking at the above, it looks like there was consensus to rename this to Archer's Avengers. Does that consensus yet hold? Giving anyone who wants a chance to say "STOP!" before things happen. --Talvin (talk) 13:15, 20 March 2022 (EDT)