Talk:Concord of Kapteyn


I was thinking about introducing a new category that would be for laws, treaties, court cases, and other documents. This could include this article as well as others such as Camlann v. Free Worlds League (allowed planets to leave their provinces) and Resolution 288 (Captain-General stayed in power "for the duration of the crisis"). I was thinking about either "Documents" or the more descriptive "Laws, Treaties & Court Cases" for the title. Any and all comments and suggestions welcome. --Scaletail 20:19, 19 January 2008 (CST)

Sounds like a good idea. But how many of these laws, treaties, and court cases are there in BattleTech? I know the agreement between Steiner and Davion was one though I can't remember the name. Haruspex 00:21, 20 January 2008 (CST)

But these documents would have nothing in common besides being documents, which is why I do not think a "Documents" category makes sense to have. Instead I suggest to categorize the signing of a certain document, the passing of an important law etc. among Category:Events if it had sufficient impact on history (usually indicated by an entry in the timeline, i.e. Concord of Kapteyn signed). Frabby 08:12, 20 January 2008 (CST)
Nothing says that they can only be in one category. --Scaletail 08:45, 20 January 2008 (CST)
I concede that point. But I still do not see why anybody would find a "documents" category helpful. Possibly superflous, but certainly not detrimental. Frabby 08:49, 20 January 2008 (CST)
Fair enough. I do eventually plan to create articles for Camlann v. Free Worlds League, Resolution 288, Addendum to the Incorporation, and Home Defense Act (for starters). Would you categorize those as events, or do you think something else should be created for them? --Scaletail 17:47, 20 January 2008 (CST)
I think that "Documents" is potentially too broad a category. Do we expect that it will encompass treaties and legal documents only? What other kinds of documents would we include in this category? If it's just those two things, I would recommend "Legal and Governmental Documents" or something similar. I can't off the top of my head think of other things we might want to include beyond treaties, agreements, and potentially in-game court cases. Bdevoe 17:44, 29 January 2008 (CST)
The name for this potential category is certainly negotiable, but I was going for brevity. --Scaletail 19:05, 29 January 2008 (CST)
I think that having a category for these kinds of things is good. I just commented on the 'peer review' category about the name, so maybe that's just where my mind is these days. To address a point you brought up earlier, I think that the things you listed aren't so much events as paradigm shifts. The Ares Conventions are another of those kinds of things. Yes, they're documents/legal decisions/agreements/treaties, but they represent a change in how humanity viewed itself. I don't know if that would help to categorize some of these things, but it might be interesting to look at the changes in perception over the course of the game's evolution. Bdevoe 13:06, 30 January 2008 (CST)
"Important Documents"? --Scaletail 16:15, 30 January 2008 (CST)
That's pretty fluffy... :) I'll mull it over tonight and see if I can come up with something. Otherwise, I might just have to settle for fluffy categories. :) Bdevoe 16:59, 30 January 2008 (CST)
Don't get me wrong, I am not trying to bug you or something, but coming back to my initial proposal: Isn't "Events" the category you are looking for here? Frabby 02:03, 31 January 2008 (CST)
It might be that Category:Events is the right place for these things. Scaletail - thoughts? Bdevoe 12:13, 31 January 2008 (CST)
Seems like any "documents" could be re-framed into an "event". Locis 14:26, 31 January 2008 (CST)
I fail to see how "Home Defense Act" is an event. It's like saying "Homestead Act of 1826" is an event. I mean, yeah, technically the passage of a law is an event, but the actual law itself and its impact is not--or may not be. What I guess I'm saying is that there is an element in the suggested articles that is an event, but it's more than that, too. I had essentially intended Events to be for wars and battles, but maybe I cast too wide a net with it. --Scaletail 18:35, 31 January 2008 (CST)
There is that, but the passage or enactment of the Home Defense Act is an event. I understand the concern and concur that it seems like it might be pigeon-holing these things into a category that may not be completely appropriate. I still think fundamentally the reason these documents are important is because the signified a paradigm shift and it's the shift that's important, not necessarily the document. As I think about it, though, I kind of see it more as Category:Documents than events... Take, for example, the US Constitution. Not only was the event of ratifying it important and what it signified as a change in world view important, but the document is the token/emblem of that change. I'm back to thinking that Documents is what we should use. :) Bdevoe 20:45, 31 January 2008 (CST)
I can see the argument for a documents category. The Tikonov Accords is a more of a document or agreement then an "event". There seem to be enough documents, accords, treaties, agreements and the like to justify a category like this. Many frame events to come in the BT Universe and those events would certainly then be linked to in the document article. Locis 08:05, 1 February 2008 (CST)

As far as the name of the treaty: Possible? or completely unrelated?

Vaguely possible, for lack of proof of the opposite. There is a Capellan world named "Kapteyn" mentioned in one canonical source (I want to say 1st Ed. MechWarrior RPG) but nowhere else, and it does not appear on any maps. The Concord may have been named after that unmapped world which in turn was presumably named for the astronomer. However, the House Books later established that the Concord was signed on Terra and Herb explicitly said the origin of its name was lost to antiquity, see link in the article. Frabby 08:14, 12 August 2009 (UTC)