User talk:Dmon/Archive 2020

Quintus Allard[edit]

Hi Dmon,

Why do we not consider the head of the espionage of House Davion as an spy?--Pserratv (talk) 08:22, 2 January 2020 (EST)

Because we have no known cases of him acting as a spy. He was a diplomat and then minister of intelligence, they are both roles as a goverment official and who he is and what he does would be matters of public record.--Dmon (talk) 08:32, 2 January 2020 (EST)

MechForce (Video Game)[edit]

Following your decision regarding Titans of Steel, do you feel MechForce (Video Game) should also be dumped? It doesn't appear to be a BT-related game, canon or fanon, and is far from a useful article, as it presently stands.--Revanche (talk|contribs) 11:20, 20 January 2020 (EST)

The article itself suffers pretty badly from the "data dump" that video game articles seem to aquire and as such needs a massive cleanup. I have a suspiccion that the article does belong here but possibly more in the way that we have articles about the Unseen and the ELH copyright case. From what I can tell the game was something similar to what MegaMek is today with the main difference being that CGL/Microsoft allow MegaMek to operate but FASA apparently at very least threatened the creator of MechForce with legal action.
I have a friend who is big into the retro games scene who I have asked to put some feelers out and see if he can dig anything up for us.--Dmon (talk) 11:35, 20 January 2020 (EST)
Excellent. Thank you.--Revanche (talk|contribs) 14:13, 20 January 2020 (EST)

Star Lord notes[edit]

Hiya, wanted to ask why you axed the Notes section in the Star Lord (novel) article? I agree that details on Dawn's future may not be relevant, but I thought the part about "Thomas Marik" in the book being almost certainly the double is worth mentioning. Frabby (talk) 04:59, 21 February 2020 (EST)

Hey Frabby, I removed the note about Dawn pretty much for the reason you stated. The part about using the head to test the DNA of Stefan Amaris VII is interesting but also utter speculation. "Thomas Marik" for the purposes of the story is Thomas Marik with no indication that he is acting in any capacity other than as the ruler of the FWL. In universe the other characters consider him to be Thomas Marik and the revelations about him being a plant are largely another decade off. As such I felt that the note had very little relevance to the book.--Dmon (talk) 09:34, 21 February 2020 (EST)


Thanks for the nomination!! What I would love would be to one day this year if possible write or reddo an article which I really feel is a very good improvement as and stand alone contribution. I have one in mind, complex and that might well spur some interesting "discussions". I'll just need to find the time. My daughter wAS BORN Premature this past year and its being hard, hapyilly hard, but nevertheless hard (the capital letters here are her doing as its helping me write :).--Pserratv (talk) 06:15, 22 February 2020 (EST)

My pleasure PS, you deserve all the nominations for all of the awards :-p. I am really bad at writing articles myself so I totally understand the desire to make a stand alone contribution like that. Kinda why I put so much time into digging out all of the noble families and titles. Over time I think it has started to become something useful to people.
I am so glad your daughter is doing well, my sisters youngest was a month premature so I understand some of the issues you must of faced. Even more respect my friend!--Dmon (talk) 06:45, 22 February 2020 (EST)

House Steiner Family Tree[edit]

My physical of House Steiner family tree from House Steiner and from House Steiner (The Lyran Commonwealth) are very different as we are seeing. Which is the good source?? I do not want to start changing without first asking.--Pserratv (talk) 13:02, 27 February 2020 (EST)

I think it might be a case of checking as many sources as we can and build a tree based on evidence from multiple sources where we can. So I think a good starting point is finding the differences as it will give us an idea just how much we need to check.--Dmon (talk) 13:07, 27 February 2020 (EST)
There's also a pretty clear guideline for cases of directly contradictory information, namely that later sources trump earlier sources - but only if they truly contradict each other, and only in the absence of other rulings or information. Frabby (talk) 16:36, 27 February 2020 (EST)
I started on the House Davion family tree and have run into the same problem right away. It's going to be a deep dive into several books to truly make sense of the inconsistencies. I agree with Frabby, though, newer sources supersede old unless specifically ruled otherwise.--Cache (talk) 10:44, 28 February 2020 (EST)
If you have scans of those family trees, I'd love to get copies of them... BrokenMnemonic (talk) 15:48, 28 February 2020 (EST)

Character Articles[edit]

Hi Dmon,

I'm a bit slow these days, but I just noticed when digging out a minor character article I'd put in (to use as a template for the next) that where I've been listing people's professions (MechWarrior, military officer, etc) you've been swapping them instead to their most recent rank. I just wanted to check the reasoning, because I'm a little nonplussed - to me, a rank isn't a profession or an occupation. In my line of work, a General's profession isn't being a General, it's being an Army officer - being a General is just one particular moment in their overall career. In theory, where we've got people mentioned in multiple sources over the course of their career, if I'm to list their current rank as their profession, the articles run the risk of being out of date. Gavilán Camacho is a Major in the novel I'm data-mining at the moment, but I know from other articles on Sarna that he later becomes a Lieutenant Colonel, and then a full Colonel. To me, his profession is the same - he's a mercenary officer - but his rank changes with each source, so it makes more sense to me to keep his profession as mercenary officer. What're your thoughts? BrokenMnemonic (talk) 07:55, 2 March 2020 (EST)

Hey BM,
The short answer to the question is that I use the characters highers rank / position or what ever their career high point mostly out of personal preference. Longer answer is that the character infobox needs updating to include titles, ranks and positions because profession on it's own is borderline redundant when boiled down to things like Noble, Military officer, mercenary, politician and Mechwarrior. Due to the nature of the BT universe we could probably use the Mechwarrior profession on 95% of all character articles, I do not think that would be of any use to anybody. At the same time updating the infobox for every character article would be a titanic task and would likely be quite time consuming. So instead I have chosen to take the attitude that the content of the profession listing is a flexible thing.--Dmon (talk) 19:46, 2 March 2020 (EST)
I'm personally not all that bothered by so many MechWarriors appear on here (although, if we ever do actually generate an article for every character ever mentioned, there should be a fair number of nobles, pilots et al to go with them) … in part, I'm not bothered, because worrying about lots of 'Mech jocks being listed on a wiki that's predominantly all about 'Mechs feels a little like worrying that a wiki about plumbing mentions a lot of plumbers, tap-fitters and sanitation engineers... Wink.gif BrokenMnemonic (talk) 15:33, 6 March 2020 (EST)

Thanks for deleting what I detect from time to time[edit]

Just that.--Pserratv (talk) 06:07, 2 April 2020 (EDT)

The wiki is a team effort man, helping each other out is what it is all about! Wink.gif--Dmon (talk) 07:29, 2 April 2020 (EDT)

Planets Category[edit]

Hi Dmon - I just wanted to ask, is it worth asking Nic if he can run a bot to replace Category: Planets with Category: Systems in all the planets articles, rather than doing them all manually? It might save a bit of time... BrokenMnemonic (talk) 03:02, 3 April 2020 (EDT)

It certainly is. But then there's the faction categories which still go for "planet" instead of "system" - the idea of automating the process is one of the reasons I had raised the point. I don't see how we can automate the updating of some 157 sub-categories. Many (most?) of these will be smallish categories that could be done manually, but combined it's a big workload. And more importantly, there are significant overlaps, so when manually doing a system article you can fix all its categories. Not sure if that's easily possible with a bot. But that's for Nic to answer. Frabby (talk) 04:35, 3 April 2020 (EDT)
I was thinking about asking him but have realised that we likely have no way of getting a bot to do the planet redirects with roman numerals so it would partially render the change pointless. I am ok to do it manually as long as people don't mind me doing it at the rate of a few a day rather than trying to do it in one go and losing my sanity!--Dmon (talk) 06:45, 3 April 2020 (EDT)
Np, I'll check the double redirects as I've taken this as my personal control zone trying to avoid them. Good luck and patience.--Pserratv (talk) 10:16, 3 April 2020 (EDT)

Clan Engines[edit]

I have been thinking on how to tackle Clan Engines. Most of the time they are not branded, so for example 305 XL, but there are a few cases were they are branded... and of course without any kind of rule or logic that I can see. How would you do this for the Engines project.--Pserratv (talk) 07:42, 15 May 2020 (EDT)

Hey PS, at the moment I think any unbranded engine Clan or IS would be ok to simply link to for example 250 Extralight Fusion Engine rather than the branded Magna 250 XL sub-section. At some point I do intend to create an engine specific infobox that will have details of IS and Clan versions. I just need to sit down and figure out the best way to make it work.--Dmon (talk) 08:21, 15 May 2020 (EDT)

Ciro Ramirez[edit]

I do not own the english version of the Lethal Heritage books, but being spanish I know how we organize our surnames. Ciro Oquendo y Ramirez is indeed a full name, usually meaning Ciro's father's surname is Oquendo and Ramirez being the mother's first surname. I know he is in the 1st Somerset Strikers (sourcebook) named as Ciro Ramirez... but I can tell you that is not the spanish way to build the surnames.--Pserratv (talk) 13:32, 16 May 2020 (EDT)

I did not know surnames where handled differently in spain, so thank you for correcting me. 1st Somerset Strikers does list his full name as Ciro Oquendo y Ramirez in the text of the profile if not the main title. But this does mean that the name becomes quite long and distorts the infobox a bit. So what would be the correct way to shorten a name in spain?--Dmon (talk) 13:39, 16 May 2020 (EDT)
We do not shorten them to be sincere now, but nobles of the past usually highlighted their first surname as in Medieval ages, the male's surname was the most important. The spanish version of the book names Ciro as Ciro Oquendo when reducing his name.
Historically speaking, if the woman was of noble born and her family had money and titles, surnames were linked by the "y" or "-", but this is not even happening now. Indeed now, when your first son/daughter is born you can select the order of his surname. By default is 1st father and then 1st mother, but you can order them the other way around.
Everybody in Spain, and also central and south america has the two surnames.--Pserratv (talk) 14:13, 16 May 2020 (EDT)
Cool info, thanks Pere. May be worth getting an official answer on the BT Forum's Ask The Line Developer section. Frabby (talk) 14:33, 16 May 2020 (EDT)
A ok, so it is essentially the same thing as the British hyphenated name but reversed, the "traditional" way it is handled in england is the womans name first and the males afterwards and any shortened version would just use the male's name as it is mostly taken in order to preserve a family name which would have become extinct due to the absence of male descendants bearing the name, connected to the inheritance of a family estate. Outside nobility such names are unusual.
Also just checked Lethal Heritage and Ciro's name is shortened to Oquendo in the english version too.--Dmon (talk) 15:10, 16 May 2020 (EDT)
Checking his biography, it is a Ramirez who got the medal from Kerenky, so he and his famili would like to make that relevant.Pserratv (talk) 18:13, 16 May 2020 (EDT)

Moratorium Policy[edit]

Regarding the Moratorium Policy, shell entries can be created as long as no narrative information is included, correct? An example being Marotta Kerensky right after the publication of Divided We Fall. Thanks. --Ebakunin (talk|contribs) 20:00, 26 May 2020 (EDT)

The policy itself does not actually say anything about shell aricles beyond creating an article for the product itself. Up until now I had not actually realised that this is not specifically outlined in the policy. I tend not to create them myself for fear of giving the wrong impression to editors who might go onto violate the Moratorium Policy by mistake, but that is just my personal take on this aspect.--Dmon (talk) 20:18, 26 May 2020 (EDT)
Fwiw, I never considered shell articles a problem and even think they're good to have, to show users that yes, we're aware of this issue but refrain from covering it in detail just for a bit. Keep in mind that the Moratorium policy is a self-imposed policy with the goal of not spoiling info from new commercial releases, nothing more, nothing less. Shell articles don't spoil anything. Frabby (talk) 00:58, 27 May 2020 (EDT)

Moratoriums on 'Mechs[edit]

Divided We Fall includes the complete technical readout of the brand new Dominator 'Mech. Are those specs also covered by the moratorium policy? Thanks. --Ebakunin (talk|contribs) 17:09, 31 May 2020 (EDT)

There will be people out there who would buy the book just for those stats so I would say the stats are very much under the moratorium.--Dmon (talk) 17:46, 31 May 2020 (EDT)

First names vs. Last Names?[edit]

Dmon - Did they change the policy regarding using a character's first name as opposed to their last name? Thanks. ClanWolverine101 (talk) 17:14, 31 May 2020 (EDT)

I didn't actually know it was a policy, most of the time I have just been doing what feels best as I am writing. I am a pretty weak article writer, I just stitch together little factoids and it can feel a bit odd repeating their name in every one.--Dmon (talk) 17:50, 31 May 2020 (EDT)
For what its worth, i like most of your writing. I was just asking because when i read your articles, it seems to be a lot of first names, which isn't standard on other wikis. ClanWolverine101 (talk) 18:35, 31 May 2020 (EDT)
I shall try to mix it up a bit better in future! Wink.gif--Dmon (talk) 19:52, 31 May 2020 (EDT)

Minsk silhouette Replacement Image[edit]

Hi Dmon, sorry bother you about minor issue. A new editor uploaded Matt Plog's art for the forth coming Minsk to be featured in Technical Readout: Golden Century. Problem is he uploaded over the Silhouette of the Minsk, which as far i'm aware not the place to put it. I hate delete a "new" editors work, would you be able talk to him/her about that's not how we do it. Silhouette was canon allowable image until the image was legally open to use. We've lost / ticked off players by undoing new-editor like moves. I'm nearly semi-retired (let's face it i can't keep up with all rapid-fire editing done now) so it's best for active editor to talk to this person. -- Wrangler (talk) 22:31, 19 June 2020 (EDT) ‎

Realistically speaking, that is not the silhouette of the Minsk. That is the silhouette of the nuSeen Warhammer that was used to represent the Minsk. The real issue is that the artwork currently falls under the moratorium period and needs to be taken down.--Cache (talk) 16:07, 20 June 2020 (EDT)
Of course, after reverting the image, I realize that I was mistaken on the moratorium violation. The image was given out as a free preview on the BT forum, so it does not fall under moratorium. As for the silhouette, do we need to get tied up in labeling a placeholder image as a canon silhouette? Or can we just rename the image to reflect the new artwork?--Cache (talk) 16:18, 20 June 2020 (EDT)
Sorry I have taken all day to get back on this. The image is not under Moratorium but it does need to be named correctly, meaning I do still need to have a word with the initial uploader to let them know we are not deleting their work. I do not think we need to worry about labeling the place holder but I am going to do a fresh upload of the Minsk artwork as the silhouette file has no real relation to the Minsk file. --Dmon (talk) 16:26, 20 June 2020 (EDT)
The Silhouette was used for the Minsk from the Turning Points: Tokasha, which was valid canon image(at the time) so it could use for it. I was aware it was NuSeen Warhammer, but it was the image which was being used at the time as "sneak preview" for the Minsk. I'm not internally sure the NuSeen Warhammer had officially come out at that moment in time. The image can be changed or removed since it will not be needed anymore since I was the one whom uploaded it as the Minsk Silhouette in the first place. The silhouette could be still in use for other things if the Classic Warhammer image isn't entirely wiped out. -- Wrangler (talk) 08:21, 22 June 2020 (EDT)

First Strike Pilots[edit]

Dmon - Quick question - do you think the pilots in the First Strike book are worthy of their own articles? Thanks. ClanWolverine101 (talk) 22:16, 2 July 2020 (EDT)

I do. Something I have learned over my time on the wiki is that the writers of the BT universe spend an enormous amount of effort filling every product with tiny links to the rest of the universe. With the number of characters in First Strike I am almost certain at least some of them will show up in other products.--Dmon (talk) 22:33, 2 July 2020 (EDT)
Fair enough. Thanks. ClanWolverine101 (talk) 22:39, 2 July 2020 (EDT)
Even if they do not. Going through the book I also managed to pin down the death of Colonel Bartholomew Alcàla and close the gap we had in the table of commaning officer of the 1st Free Worlds Guards and add some place names to planet articles so I think the effort is worth it.--Dmon (talk) 22:44, 2 July 2020 (EDT)

Zibler's House undos[edit]

I saw you reverted my changes. Can I ask why? The brother added has the 3 of them market as his family (siblings), so if it is a mistake in the original one, we should correct it right?--Pserratv (talk) 14:57, 18 July 2020 (EDT)

What brother? Heather is the mother.--Dmon (talk) 15:03, 18 July 2020 (EDT)
I'm very tired... 16h working and at least 3 more to go...--Pserratv (talk) 16:55, 18 July 2020 (EDT)
I know the feeling man, In my old job I did 3 years of 70hr working weeks. I didn't know what felt like not to be tired.--Dmon (talk) 17:44, 18 July 2020 (EDT)
This has been my latest months, from Monday to Sunday... --Pserratv (talk) 17:53, 18 July 2020 (EDT)
Sad times man.--Dmon (talk) 18:03, 18 July 2020 (EDT)
I miss being with my family, I miss my friends and I miss writing here.--Pserratv (talk) 18:26, 18 July 2020 (EDT)

Delete pages[edit]

Hi Dmon, can you delete this unused and/or wrong categories:

I would say we should also delete as it no longer fits the Wiki:

This is of course a suggestion.--Pserratv (talk) 10:53, 19 July 2020 (EDT)

Thanks!!--Pserratv (talk) 13:05, 19 July 2020 (EDT)

Category Uncategorized files[edit]

Should we create a "Category" for the Maps?? To clean this category?--Pserratv (talk) 11:04, 19 July 2020 (EDT)

I am not sure how the bot works so I am not sure if there would be a knock on effect when the planets team next update the images.--Dmon (talk) 13:00, 19 July 2020 (EDT)
Nothing then, I'll try to sort out from here not planet maps and that is all.--Pserratv (talk) 13:04, 19 July 2020 (EDT)

Article Naming for battles[edit]

I noticed that you recently moved several articles for battles to include the year of the engagement. (For example, Battle of Wolcott to Battle of Wolcott (3050).) The relevant policy seems to indicate that the year should be included only when there were multiple battles at the same location. Am I missing something here? I ask because I recently split off a new article for the Battle of Huntress, and I anticipate working on the Battle of Trafalgar in the near future, and I want to be consistent with current policy. Tosta Dojen (talk) 15:03, 25 July 2020 (EDT)

Hey TD,
In truth I should probably update the wording of the policy. I tend to put the date in as standard because given the nature of the BTU (the setting of a war game) it is fairly safe to assume most planets have seen more than one military action.--Dmon (talk) 17:09, 25 July 2020 (EDT)
If it's up for discussion, I think the policy is better as it stands. While you're correct that naming conflicts will come up frequently, that's adequately handled by including the date when the name is otherwise ambiguous. I don't think it's a good reason to include the date by default when there's no actual conflict. It seems jarring to me to refer to the "Battle of Trafalgar (3059)" or the "Battle of the Kyoto Zen Arcology Project (3072)" when there are no other battles with those names. Tosta Dojen (talk) 12:20, 26 July 2020 (EDT)
Everything is up for discussion and review, continued refinement is a good thing. In this case though I do not really feel that strongly about changing the policy it is just an idea. Project Battles has been on the backburner for about a year and is currently little more than a list mostly lifted from TRO:3025, a list somebody put together of Wolf's Dragoons battles and the skeleton of a category system.--Dmon (talk) 13:23, 26 July 2020 (EDT)
I'll keep my current initiatives as they are, then. I've added Policy:Article Naming to my watchlist, so if there's a discussion over there about implementing your proposed change, I'll weigh in. Tosta Dojen (talk) 14:14, 26 July 2020 (EDT)



The result on this template Template:InfoBoxConflict does not appear, and if references are added here, they are not taken into account for the page. For example: DeChavilier Massacre, where I've been forced to change the links otherwise it had reference errors.--Pserratv (talk) 18:37, 7 August 2020 (EDT)

Some changes have been made to the template. I will have a look and see if I can figure out exactly what it is that is stopping the references from working.--Dmon (talk) 19:00, 7 August 2020 (EDT)
It looks like this change causes the result part of the InfoBox not to appear; it deleted some instances of 'result' along with 'status'. That would break references if they're defined within the result section. Tosta Dojen (talk) 20:29, 7 August 2020 (EDT)
Ah, I thought it would just remove the 'Status' section.--Dmon (talk) 21:25, 7 August 2020 (EDT)
I've made a change that should restore the 'Result' field without the deprecated 'Status' option. I've checked a few articles and it looks good to me. Check things out and see if the function of InfoBoxConflict is back to working like it should. Tosta Dojen (talk) 12:33, 8 August 2020 (EDT)
Seems it is working again yes.--Pserratv (talk) 05:28, 15 August 2020 (EDT)

Jonathan Limpo[edit]

Hi Dmon,--Pserratv (talk) 18:41, 7 August 2020 (EDT)

I saw you have undone my change here. My base to do that was that in his bio he is already marked as Duke of Carse, so in the line I thought it was better to split it as Duke of Carse, giving a direct link to the Duke page and also to the Carse planet within a single click.

I personally like the link to the specific title over the generic Duke link, but I can also see the link to the planet being useful. Maybe I am bias because the title articles are my personal project!--Dmon (talk) 19:04, 7 August 2020 (EDT)

Roger/Richard Davion[edit]

There are several articles (e.g., Royalston Capellan March Militia) claiming that the Preparedness Act was enacted by First Prince Roger Davion in 2735. On the other hand, the Preparedness Act article claims it was enacted in that year by Richard Davion, whose article supports the claim that Richard was First Prince in 2735.

I don't have access to the sourcebooks cited, but I know you're working on the noble houses. Can you fact-check this? I can clean up the erroneous references once I know which Richard/Roger is correct. Tosta Dojen (talk) 14:37, 9 August 2020 (EDT)

Just had a look and Field Report 2765: Federated Suns has Richard listed on pages 3 and 4 but page 21 (the Royalston Capellan March Militia page) has Roger. The case for it being Richard is supported by the fact he was in power at the time as you noted, with Roger having died in 2703. So the references are correct but the Militia article and Preparedness Act article need a note added saying that the error is in the book itself.--Dmon (talk) 14:58, 9 August 2020 (EDT)
I've made some edits to Royalston Capellan March Militia changing Roger to Richard, and adding a Note describing the discrepancy. Would you mind looking it over? I'm not intimately familiar with how BTW handles errors in its primary sources, and I'd like to correct any issues before I make the same changes to the other March Militia articles (there are quite a few of those!) Tosta Dojen (talk) 12:59, 10 August 2020 (EDT)
I've finished up editing the Militia articles to address the primary source discrepancy. There's a similar claim appearing in, e.g., 3rd Dragonlords, crediting Roger Davion with a "rearmament programme", but I'm not sure whether that's a reference to the Preparedness Act. Tosta Dojen (talk) 16:45, 9 September 2020 (EDT)
Cross referenced with Handbook: House Davion (p. 45) and it appears that it is indeed a reference to the Preparedness Act and that it should be credited to Richard.--Dmon (talk) 13:55, 10 September 2020 (EDT)
I've fixed up the Richard/Roger discrepancies in the Dragonlords articles, which should be the last of them. Thanks again for the fact check! Tosta Dojen (talk) 15:03, 18 September 2020 (EDT)

Damien Redburn Affiliation[edit]

Hi Dmon. How is the "Affiliation" option supposed to work in the InfoBoxCharacter template? I noticed you reverted my change to Damien Redburn. He's a primary character for his family house, the Republic, and the Remnant. --Ebakunin (talk|contribs) 15:01, 10 August 2020 (EDT)

The intent is that a characters house is always their primary affiliation. If you have a look at the house articles they have an affiliation category as well, that would cover the larger republic loyalty. The best way to think about houses is to think of them as a sub-faction. His character category however remains as Republic because that is his nationality. And I am not entirely sure what the status of the Remnant is because in Rock of the Republic Damien refutes the legitimacy of the Republic behind the wall and considers the "Remnant" of the true republic not as a splinter faction but the last hold out of the true republic.--Dmon (talk) 16:10, 10 August 2020 (EDT)
Whether the Remnant is a splinter faction is a difficult question since it's based on character opinion. Fortress Republic does not consider it part of the official Republic, though it wishes it was. Redburn thinks the Fortress has abdicated the right to be called the Republic of the Sphere. Personally I would call the Remnant a splinter faction and include an explicit section about why it's a complicated decision. --Ebakunin (talk|contribs) 16:28, 10 August 2020 (EDT)
I agree the remenant is a splinter as well. I certainly think that the relationship between them and Fortress Republic will take some quality writing to express correctly on the wiki.--Dmon (talk) 16:47, 10 August 2020 (EDT)

Chaos March Characters[edit]

Hi Dmon,

Does it make sense to create a category for Chaos March Characters? Or do we try to classifiy them for their affiliation? In some cases afiliation is themselves so not sure on which could or should be the correct way to tackle this. I'm thinking on William Baranov for example.--Pserratv (talk) 05:27, 15 August 2020 (EDT)

Hey PS
I personally have never really been a fan of the Chaos March tag because it covers so many possible loyalties that it does not really mean anything. Terms like Independent also do not feel right for similar reasons. Given that he illegally deposed the government of Hall we could class him as a bandit king of sorts. Outside that I can't really think of anything that fits, but he already has TFR and FedSuns so it is not of vital importance to add more if the options are so vague as to not really add anything.--Dmon (talk) 05:55, 15 August 2020 (EDT)

Rollback of Honor's Gauntlet[edit]

I'm wondering why you rolled back my changes to Honor's Gauntlet. From my understanding, under moratorium the only info that can be added are featured characters and BattleTechnology, since it makes the story easier to follow. It does not reveal anything about the plot. I know this has been done in many other stories under moratorium. Thanks for your thinking on the matter. --Ebakunin (talk|contribs) 02:19, 31 August 2020 (EDT)

Hey Ebakunin,
I was initially confused as to what you where talking about as my last action was doing an initial load of featured characters on Crucible at Campoleone before I went to bed last night. Looking at the revision history of Honor's Gauntlet the entry reads:
 07:10, 31 August 2020‎ Ebakunin (talk | contribs | block)‎ m . . (1,778 bytes) (-921)‎ . . (Reverted edits by Ebakunin (talk) to last revision by Dmon) (rollback 10 edits | undo)
What appears to of happened is you have hit the rollback button on your own edits by accident and as I was the last editor before you, it stopped at me. I have done this to myself a few times so I know how easy it is to do. Regarding the adding of featured characters, technology and places whilst under moratorium, I fully support the adding of this information as it gives us an initial framework to build out from at a later date.--Dmon (talk) 06:33, 31 August 2020 (EDT)
Thanks for clearing that up. I've got to be more careful, or start going to bed earlier. --Ebakunin (talk|contribs) 14:10, 31 August 2020 (EDT)

Featured Characters in Story Entries[edit]

In the "Featured Characters" section of story entries (e.g. Grey Watch Protocol#Featured Characters) is there a standard for how many characters should be included? Are we aiming for just major characters or minor characters too? Thanks. --Ebakunin (talk|contribs) 17:02, 2 September 2020 (EDT)

The ultimate aim is to get everybody in the story. With CGL currently adding in Kickstarter backers as minor characters in products this is in theory a great way to get people involved with the wiki.--Dmon (talk) 19:11, 2 September 2020 (EDT)

Delete pages II[edit]

Can you please delete these pages:

As they represent spelling mistakes of existing authors or categories without any data.--Pserratv (talk) 08:34, 3 September 2020 (EDT)

Done :-) --Dmon (talk) 09:47, 3 September 2020 (EDT)
Thanks!--Pserratv (talk) 10:50, 3 September 2020 (EDT)

Battletech software[edit]

Is it worth to add some article on the existing battletech editors (programs that can be used to design a recordsheet?). We have an article on HeavyMetal, but for example nothing on SSW.--Pserratv (talk) 06:58, 16 September 2020 (EDT)

That is a very good question. Under normal circumstances I would be resistant to it due to HMP being the official software. With HMP being unsupported for so long I think that the community has been forced to move along onto unofficial products so we need to keep pace and have articles about them.--Dmon (talk) 07:08, 16 September 2020 (EDT)
Totally yes! Fan-created content is valid as a subject for an article, if the content in question is notable enough. I don't see why software should be treated any different from other stuff. MegaMek is unofficial but does have its own article here, for example. Frabby (talk) 08:17, 16 September 2020 (EDT)

Delete pages III[edit]

Hi Dmon,

I think we can delete this pages:

Done!--Dmon (talk) 09:22, 23 September 2020 (EDT)

Delete Pages IV[edit]

Hi Dmon,

Can you please delete these pages:

--Pserratv (talk) 10:33, 6 October 2020 (EDT)

BrokenMnemonic did it as I was busy.--Dmon (talk) 21:34, 7 October 2020 (EDT)

Delete Pages V[edit]

Hi Dmon,

Can you please delete this pages:

Thanks beforehand.--Pserratv (talk) 05:23, 9 October 2020 (EDT)

Delete pages VI[edit]

Hi Dmon,

Can you delete this ones now:

Thanks.--Pserratv (talk) 15:27, 10 October 2020 (EDT)

Delete Pages VII[edit]

Hi Dmon,--Pserratv (talk) 10:39, 20 October 2020 (EDT)

Can you please delete this page Badnoff's Brigands and it's Talk Page? This was a spelling mistake now corrected.

Delete pages VIII[edit]

Hi Dmon,

Can you please delete all these pages? They are incorrect spellings for which a correct page has been created.

Thanks.--Pserratv (talk) 03:30, 22 October 2020 (EDT)

I am fairly certain that I made all of those except the last two!--Dmon (talk) 10:07, 22 October 2020 (EDT)
I see the old pages still existing...--Pserratv (talk) 10:15, 22 October 2020 (EDT)
I had not deleted them yet :-p--Dmon (talk) 10:41, 22 October 2020 (EDT)
I understood you had already done, when you meant you had already correct all except the last two :)--Pserratv (talk) 11:57, 22 October 2020 (EDT)
Server timezone does not help. Just posted and says: 11:57, 22 October 2020 (EDT). Where I am is 17:56 CET, I get lost.--Pserratv (talk) 11:58, 22 October 2020 (EDT)
No I meant that it was me who originally created most of those articles using Defence as it is a British English rather than the wikis official American English. And yeah the server time confused me quite often until I realised it can be changed. If you go to preferences in the top right you can change your date and time zone settings on the second tab.--Dmon (talk) 12:31, 22 October 2020 (EDT)

Delete Pages IX[edit]

Can you please delete this time:

All of them are under speedy deletion.--Pserratv (talk) 06:56, 23 October 2020 (EDT)

Delete pages X[edit]

Hi Dmon,

Can you delete these ones now?:

Thanks.--Pserratv (talk) 07:37, 26 October 2020 (EDT)

Katana Tormark, Duchess of?[edit]

Hey Dmon. Do you think we should remove the Duchess of Proserpina text from Katana Tormark? Thanks. --Ebakunin (talk|contribs) 15:48, 1 November 2020 (EST)

I think we should, if we can't back it up. If we find a source that confirms it at a later date we can add it back in.--Dmon (talk) 15:58, 1 November 2020 (EST)
From the Discord server:
ebakunin - Today at 1:48 PM
Does anyone know how Katana Tormark became a Duchess? Neither of her parents had royal titles.

GreekFire - Today at 3:14 PM
her father was ancha's governor, a title that can only be claimed by nobles
so if he wasn't a noble before joining the republic, then he must have been given a noble title by the republic itself
which was then passed down to katana

ebakunin - Today at 3:18 PM
@GreekFire thanks. Where did you get your info?

GreekFire - Today at 3:19 PM
combo of FM:3085 (for the governor/nobility link) and Era Digest: Dark Age (for the up-to-date profile on Katana Tormark)
Would you please confirm and update the article? Thanks a lot. --Ebakunin (talk|contribs) 17:23, 1 November 2020 (EST)
Era Digest: Dark Age confirms her father was ancha's governor but nothing about a noble title. I am not sure if having a title is a prerequisite to the post. FM:3085 I can't find anything that sheds light on our problem.--Dmon (talk) 18:04, 1 November 2020 (EST)
Urg. There is author fiat; sometimes I wish there was wiki fiat 🙄 --Ebakunin (talk|contribs) 18:12, 1 November 2020 (EST)
I may have something, Al Na'ir appears to have a House Tormark. I think I am going to as over on the official forums and ask the devs if they can help us.--Dmon (talk) 18:17, 1 November 2020 (EST)

Delete Pages XI[edit]

Hi Dmon,

This time we should be deleting these:

Delete pages XII[edit]

Hi Dmon,

We have this one to delete:

--Pserratv (talk) 05:18, 16 November 2020 (EST)

Commanding officer tables?[edit]

Dmon, did you convert the list of commanding officers into table format? I have a suggestion and I want to be sure I'm talking to the correct person. Thanks!--Mbear(talk) 09:41, 16 November 2020 (EST)

e.g. 294th Mechanized Infantry Division. --Mbear(talk) 09:41, 16 November 2020 (EST)
Hey Mbear, yeah the CO tables where my initiative. I was fed up of the section being inconsistent in style. I am game for ideas to improve it because at the time it was my first stab at a bestoke table.--Dmon (talk) 10:57, 16 November 2020 (EST)

Delete pages XIII[edit]

Can you please delete this pages:

Thanks beforehand!--Pserratv (talk) 05:53, 2 December 2020 (EST)

Issue connecting[edit]

I'm Pserratv. I'm getting this error. I tried resetting pwd but it did fail There seems to be a problem with your login session; this action has been canceled as a precaution against session hijacking. Go back to the previous page, reload that page and then try again.-- 10:10, 10 December 2020 (EST)

I am having the same issue! -- Dmon.
This is probably related to today's server migration. Nicjansma posted a contact link for users who are having issues. Tosta Dojen (talk) 11:08, 10 December 2020 (EST)
Most probably... I got it another time, but it was something local, no issues as of now.--Pserratv (talk) 12:58, 10 December 2020 (EST)
I reckon it was the move. Had sorted itself out by the time I finished work.--Dmon (talk) 16:23, 10 December 2020 (EST)

Apocryphal Tag[edit]

Hi Dmon, I've just corrected a couple of apocryphal tags in new articles created by you. You put in ApocryphalProduct, but that's supposed to only be used for real-world products (i.e., sources); for in-universe information that is wholly apocryphal, the ApocryphalArticle tag is preferred. (And of course the ApocryphalContentStart and ApocryphalContentEnd tags for apocryphal content within an article about an otherwise canonical in-universe topic...) Frabby (talk) 08:18, 15 December 2020 (EST)

Cheers for the catch Frabby, I was sneaking in some edits whilst it was quiet at work. Had not noticed I had grabbed the wrong tag.--Dmon (talk) 10:54, 15 December 2020 (EST)

Shrapnel 3[edit]

Is Shrapnel 3 out yet? I haven't received any notification or download link yet. Where did you get the cover image from? Frabby (talk) 08:28, 16 December 2020 (EST)

Yeah it went out on general sale some point yesterday evening on Amazon and I assume a few other places. I have not had my backer link yet either, I pinched the image from one of the posts on FB about it.--Dmon (talk) 09:14, 16 December 2020 (EST)

Emblematic Mech[edit]

Hi, Why do you have suppressed the section about "Emblematic Mech" in each article about successor state military? All the mech listed in there were indicated as emblematic by this very wiki. This information adds more character to each military and so is good to be written.— The preceding unsigned comment was provided by (talkcontribs) .

Hey, I removed the section because although adding character it is also something that is not really static. It has been months since I made the change, but I seem to remember that the only designs where 3025 era ones. By the 3060s we had a whole different crop of "Emblematic 'Mechs" such as the Hauptmann, Fafnir, No-Dachi or Templar. It is a bit like saying the PzKpfw VI Tiger is used by the German Army. The Tiger is the most famous German Tank but it has not been used in active service for an extremely long time. The BattleTech game makes an effort to keep old units relevant but the lore does evolve and progress bringing in new 'Mechs.--Dmon (talk) 17:44, 18 December 2020 (EST)
I agree with Dmon on this. We should seek to keep generic articles (like for a Great House military) free of era specific details such as this. The information is not wrong, but arguably too detailed, and thus doesn't belong into a timeline agnostic article. It does have its place in the articles about the individual 'Mechs, because these naturally go into more detail. Also, I'd say this specific factoid is more about the specific 'Mechs and not so much about the military organisation.
That said, please don't let this discourage you from contributing to Sarna! Frabby (talk) 03:07, 19 December 2020 (EST)
Sorry, I didn't see that you move the discussion to this point. I move my previous answer to the right place (see below). I really want a sub-section or an article about "emblematic mech" but I will wait for opinions about the right place to put it before adding it again. Dermenore (talk) 16:39, 20 December 2020 (EST)
Hi again. I created an account this time.
I understand your point about erasing what I write about emblematic Mech during successions wars in the article about each military. But I passed some time to do it (in research principally). I would like to see it stay in this wiki. What about if I add a new section in the article about successions wars? Did it seem to fit more for you? You seem respected here so I prefer to have your approbation before adding this text again. Dermenore (talk) 14:40, 19 December 2020 (EST)
Hey Dermenore, welcome to the Wiki! I can totally understand the desire not to see your work get swept away, and the wiki is a constantly evolving beast. So I am not against the idea of such a section but before I say yes, do you have any idea how you want to fit it in with the current articles?--Dmon (talk) 13:37, 21 December 2020 (EST)

Hi. I checked the article about the History of the Succession Wars and Third Succession War. I don't see a way to create a sub-section "emblematic mech" that will fit in this article. It will feel out of the topic. I think a better way for me to implement my idea is to create a separate article named "Iconic Mech of the Third Succession War". By this way, the mention "iconic" in the article about mech like Enforcer and Vindicator could redirect to it and give it some visibility. If I understand well, I would have to create an article "iconic" and redirect it in the direction of the article "Iconic Mech of the Third Succession War". What do you think of this idea? Dermenore (talk) 07:06, 22 December 2020 (EST)

I suggest creating a BattleTech Essay titled "Essay: Emblematic 'Mechs" or somesuch, where you can approach the issue from any angle - time period, faction, etc. and even create a sortable table. "Iconic" could then be made into a redirect link to that article. Frabby (talk) 05:59, 25 December 2020 (EST)
Hi. That seems a good idea. Such an essay could be used by other people to cover different times periods where I did not made research. Thanks for the idea, I will start the essay as soon as I have more free time, probably in January. I will be careful to re-use the source of the main article this time. Dermenore (talk) 11:45, 26 December 2020 (EST)
Hey Denmore, Sorry I have taken a while to get back to you, the real world has me quite distracted from my wiki duties at the moment. I also like Frabbys idea of an essay, it seems the best way to handle the subject in a manner that is free to evolve in its own manner. Frabby has written some very comprehensive articles for the wiki so if you need help he is likely the best person to ask.--Dmon (talk) 04:12, 27 December 2020 (EST)

Andreas von Breunig article[edit]

Hi, um, the Andreas von Breunig article looks like it had a copy&paste-induced teleporter accident. Frabby (talk) 11:32, 31 December 2020 (EST)

So it does... I think I shall go fix that!--Dmon (talk) 16:41, 31 December 2020 (EST)