https://www.sarna.net/wiki/api.php?action=feedcontributions&user=Xoid&feedformat=atom
BattleTechWiki - User contributions [en]
2024-03-29T15:24:43Z
User contributions
MediaWiki 1.34.4
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/index.php?title=Titans_Of_Steel&diff=61014
Titans Of Steel
2009-09-09T04:11:11Z
<p>Xoid: Redirected page to MechForce (Video Game)</p>
<hr />
<div>#REDIRECT [[MechForce (Video Game)]]</div>
Xoid
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/index.php?title=MechForce_(Video_Game)&diff=61013
MechForce (Video Game)
2009-09-09T04:09:30Z
<p>Xoid: </p>
<hr />
<div>===Downloads===<br />
* [http://sarna.net/files/index.php/programs/games/mechforce_amiga/ All Downloads]<br />
<br />
<br />
==Titans of steel==<br />
<br />
=== External Resources ===<br />
* [http://www.titansofsteel.de/ Titans of Steel Homepage]<br />
* [http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tt.asp?forumid=28 Titans of Steel Official Forums]<br />
* [http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2053107 Beta Patch + updated Titan database] (as of 2009-07-09)<br />
* [http://www.matrixgames.com/products/237/downloads/Titans.of.Steel:.Warring.Suns Titans of Steel: Warring Suns download] (free, official)<br />
<br />
[[Category: Video Games]]</div>
Xoid
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/index.php?title=User_talk:Ebakunin&diff=57099
User talk:Ebakunin
2009-08-03T05:17:58Z
<p>Xoid: /* Transcluded */</p>
<hr />
<div>* '''[[User talk:Ebakunin/Archive|Talk Archive]]'''<br />
<br />
<br />
== Liberator ==<br />
I took the liberty (no pun intended) of changing your last edit to italics, which is what I presume you had intended (you used double quotes, which are not read by mediawiki the same way as two single quotes). If I presumed wrong, please let me know. --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 11:44, 18 June 2009 (PDT)<br />
<br />
:I thought the BT convention is to put named ships in quotes, while ship classes are put in italics (much like 'Mechs). Am I wrong here? Thanks. --[[User:Ebakunin|Ebakunin]] 11:55, 18 June 2009 (PDT)<br />
<br />
::Let me say that I'm uncertain. If there is a policy or stated convention here, please point me in that direction. However, based on my own interest in things naval (I'm a naval officer), I lean towards italicizing ship names. Scaletail and I generally lean towards the adoption of Wikipedia policies on areas where we haven't yet adopted a similar policy (especially in regards to references and copyediting). I don't have the time just now to find & check their policy, but [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Raven_(MHC-61) this article] tells me they lean towards italicizing. Quotes just seem to be an odd way of highlighting a ship's name. --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 12:02, 18 June 2009 (PDT)<br />
<br />
:::You're absolutely right. I was basing quotes vs. italics on CBL's conventions, which I was mistaken about. I took a look at ''[[Jihad Secrets: The Blake Documents]]'' where the ''Invincible'' WarShip is in italics. My bad. Won't happen again. Thanks for pointing out the problem --[[User:Ebakunin|Ebakunin]] 12:17, 18 June 2009 (PDT) {{emoticon|:P}}<br />
::::No, not a problem. You've actually given me another reason to write a Manual of Style for the wiki. This is a good one. --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 13:05, 18 June 2009 (PDT)<br />
<br />
== Wiki experience ==<br />
Hey, Ebakunin. It's clear to me that MediaWiki doesn't scare you. What kind of experience do you have with it?<br />
--[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 12:08, 3 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Dash or Code ==<br />
[[User:Xoid|Xoid]] once tried to explain this to me, but it went over my head. Why do you prefer to use the code <nowiki>&ndash;</nowiki>, instead of a dash? --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 03:41, 7 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
:And why didn't nowiki not work here? --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 03:41, 7 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:: '''Usage:'''<br />
::There's three type of dash [[w:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_XML_and_HTML_character_entity_references|entities]] (letter-like symbols), each slightly longer than the previous:<br />
<pre><br />
- (standard hyphen)<br />
– (&amp;ndash;)<br />
— (&amp;mdash;)<br />
</pre><br />
<br />
::In general, the short dash is used for hyphenated words, the long dash ("mdash") for connecting sentence fragments, and the "ndash" for everything else. For example:<br />
<br />
::* (standard hyphen) "Teaching a pre-teen to drive is a bad idea."<br />
::* (&amp;ndash;) George Washington, February 22, 1732 – December 14, 1799<br />
::* (&amp;mdash;) "Sarah, no matter what he said—and I know he said a lot—I promise you they were all lies."<br />
<br />
::'''Browser interpretation:'''<br />
::Here's where it gets complicated. A "[[w:Character (computing)|character]]" is basically a number, letter, or entity the can fit in one letter space. For example, "K" and "Æ" are characters since they take up one space, but "AE" is not. Since there are a ''lot'' of characters (©, ¥, ñ, etc.) and a limited number of keys on the keyboard, each character has an HTML character entity reference so the browser knows what to display. It has to be something weird so no one will accidentally type it and get confused, which is why &amp;ndash; gives you – and &amp;mdash; gives you —.<br />
<br />
::All the entities I've mentioned are perfectly valid letters/symbols that just don't show up on an American English keyboard. Therefore they are ''not'' HTML tags like &lt;div&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt; won't work on them.<br />
<br />
::Because they are entities, you can also cut-and-paste them just like any other letter. They're not readily available on my keyboard, though, which is why I type them out the long way. If BTW had a symbol insert list like Wikipedia offers (the one that lets you insert ©, ¥, ñ, etc.) I would use it instead.<br />
<br />
::That turned out to be a rather long winded response, but I hope it helped. {{emoticon|:)}} --<span style="font-family:Courier">[[User:Ebakunin|Ebakunin]]</span> <sup>([[User talk:Ebakunin|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Ebakunin|contribs]])</sup> 04:52, 7 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::NO! That absolutely helped. It also assuaged my guilt over not using the code, since I knew I could use it incorrectly. I see that is not the case, but that I'm free to use regular dashes. Thanks, Ebakunin. I appreciate it. --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 20:33, 7 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Timeline tags ==<br />
Having seen the awesome job you did on the yearlist, here's an idea I had: On the Starwars wiki, there is one or more era symbol(s) in each article (where appropriate), denoting during which eras a certain vehicle was used or a certain event occurred. I liked this concept, but totally lack the skills to implement something similar on BTW. You, on the other hand, seem quite skilled in this respect... [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] 21:11, 7 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:I know what you're referring to, but unfortunately the era symbols use JavaScript for correct positioning. Since I don't have access to BTW's JavaScript I can't do the work. Sorry. --[[User:Ebakunin|Ebakunin]] 21:14, 7 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Is it a one time code addition or something that would need constant access? --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 22:08, 7 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::To be honest, it would require admin status, as I would need to modify the [[Special:AllMessages|system messages]] page. --[[User:Ebakunin|Ebakunin]] 22:38, 7 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Wannabe_kate code ==<br />
Ebakunin, do you feel the editcounter code [http://toolserver.org/~interiot/cgi-bin/Tool1/wannabe_kate?code on this site] can be used here, if installed? --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 01:06, 8 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Bump. I was hoping you could see if this is something we could have installed on our server, rather than go thru Interiot's. The tool was very informative (IMO) and I'd love to be able to use it again. Thanks. --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 04:11, 11 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Would you first go [[w:WikiProject_edit_counters#MediaWiki_features_and_extensions|here]] and let me know which editcounter you prefer. Afterward, I'll need to talk with Nic about adding the tool to the site. He will need to do the dirty work. --[[User:Ebakunin|Ebakunin]] 05:34, 11 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::Technically, its [http://toolserver.org/~interiot/cgi-bin/count_edits this one], but he offers [http://toolserver.org/~interiot/cgi-bin/Tool1/wannabe_kate?code this code] from [http://toolserver.org/~interiot/cgi-bin/Tool1/wannabe_kate this page]. I'm not even certain the code to run the editcounter is available, but maybe what I provided you only links into the (possibly defunct) master server. --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 06:25, 11 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Banner Placement ==<br />
Ebakunin, please find an appropriate place to put this on your [[User:Ebakunin|userpage]]: <br><br />
[[File:BTW Admin.jpg]]<br><br />
--[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 05:03, 9 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Congratulations, and Welcome to the Admin team! [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] 10:16, 10 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Edittools==<br />
I'm constantly forgetting how to use the <references/> code and then having to look up how I used it in the past. How would I make use of your editool? --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 18:39, 9 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
:What code? --[[User:Ebakunin|Ebakunin]] 18:40, 9 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
::[[MediaWiki:Edittools]]. Maybe I've mis-understood the intent of this page. --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 20:21, 9 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::Edit any page and look under the text box. You'll see the results. --[[User:Ebakunin|Ebakunin]] 20:39, 9 July 2009 (UTC) {{emoticon|:)}}<br />
::::So, how do you like your steaks? Certain cut? Expensive? Baked Alaska with that? Seriously...thank you!--[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 20:44, 9 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Template:Cite ==<br />
Ebakunin, do you think you might be able to get the cite tag to work properly? --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 19:25, 11 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:I'm not sure what you're referring to. --[[User:Ebakunin|Ebakunin]] 23:42, 11 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Belay my last. I figured out what I wanted to get done. --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 00:47, 12 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== blanking pages ==<br />
I'm going to keep blanking pages. I can't be banned because I'm not logged on. {{unsigned|68.81.95.145|20:12, 16 July 2009 (UTC)}}<br />
<br />
:Hi. Would you please be more specific as to what's going on. I logged out and then edited [[Kell Hound Pilot (CCG - Limited)]] without any issues. I'm unsure how to recreate the problem you encountered. Thanks. --<span style="font-family=Courier">[[User:Ebakunin|Ebakunin]]</span> <sup>([[User talk:Ebakunin|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Ebakunin|contribs]])</sup> 20:36, 16 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Watchout ==<br />
I'm catching up with you on editcounts. Today i gained 3 to your 1 addition. Only 84 more to go (which equates to about 4,200 more, by that counter's function). Be afraid, be very afraid. :P--[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 03:49, 17 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Ebakunin sig ==<br />
Re: {{tl|Ebakunin sig}}, I've corrected the timestamps and removed the four calls to it. I guess this means that it is no longer required? (Seems as if you decided against using it.) --[[User:Xoid|Xoid]] 13:33, 17 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Yeah, I didn't realize you could customize your signature using wikicode. I need to double back and replicate the template results before deleting the template, otherwise all the signatures will disappear. --<span style="font-family:Courier">[[User:Ebakunin|Ebakunin]]</span> <sup>([[User talk:Ebakunin|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Ebakunin|contribs]])</sup> 17:48, 17 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
::Actually, that's what I did, but it seems you already figured that out. :D<br />
::It sort of surprised me really, most people who use vanity templates store them in the User namespace. e.g., <code><nowiki>{{User:Ebakunin/sig}}</nowiki></code>. I used to be a template sigger myself but I changed my ways after seeing a wiki go down in flames when it was vandalised. That, and I finally realised that each signature template tends to be a real strain on the server. --[[User:Xoid|Xoid]] 02:15, 18 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
:BTW, nice to finally meet you {{emoticon|:)}} --<span style="font-family:Courier">[[User:Ebakunin|Ebakunin]]</span> <sup>([[User talk:Ebakunin|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Ebakunin|contribs]])</sup> 17:48, 17 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
::And it's nice to be back. Ah, nostalgia. :P --[[User:Xoid|Xoid]] 02:15, 18 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== 25 Years of Art & Fiction ==<br />
You put a specific date on the moratorium. Does that mean the print edition is for sale already?--[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 23:37, 17 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Nope, my mistake. Fixing it now. --<span style="font-family:Courier">[[User:Ebakunin|Ebakunin]]</span> <sup>([[User talk:Ebakunin|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Ebakunin|contribs]])</sup> 23:42, 17 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Roger, thanks. My hopes are dashed so easily.--[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 23:46, 17 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== -moz-border-radius-topleft ==<br />
One reason I always shied away from that property is because of its non-universal support. Be careful that in freeing the web from the tyranny of IE's non-compliance with standards that we don't…yada, yada. You get the drift.<br />
<br />
That reminds me, would I be imposing upon you if I asked for the horizontal ellipsis to be added to that JavaScript-based monstrosity of yours down there? *points at the "'''Insert a character:'''" thingamajig at the bottom of his screen*--[[User:Xoid|Xoid]] 06:44, 18 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:The only reason the I use the -moz-border-radius attribute is because it degrades gracefully to all other browsers. Don't worry – I never use any nonstandard tags (with the exception of filter:alpha(opacity=XX)). I can't think of any other nonstandard attributes I use either other than "-moz". --<span style="font-family:Courier">[[User:Ebakunin|Ebakunin]]</span> <sup>([[User talk:Ebakunin|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Ebakunin|contribs]])</sup> 16:38, 18 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Color ==<br />
Quick question: what code do I use to change the color of certain text? I thought <nowiki><color=brown></color></nowiki> would have worked, but it does not. --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 05:08, 19 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Unless you want me to create a template, you should use <nowiki><span></nowiki>, one of the few HTML tags allowed in the wiki. Try this: <nowiki><span style="color:blue">example</span></nowiki>. It will display <span style="color:blue">example</span>. You can apply other font attributes [http://www.w3schools.com/css/css_reference.asp#font too]. --<span style="font-family:Courier">[[User:Ebakunin|Ebakunin]]</span> <sup>([[User talk:Ebakunin|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Ebakunin|contribs]])</sup> 05:15, 19 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Aaah-kay. Thanks. It apparently doesn't work within the {{tl|quote}} template, but it does work outside it. Thanks, Ebakunin. --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 05:25, 19 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Transcluded==<br />
Ebakunin, requesting a kludge be shoehorned into [[MediaWiki:Common.js/edit.js]]: can you ensure that no "{" is next to another "{"? As it is, the templates this script allows you to insert are actually transcluded. While I theorise that there might be other side effects, MediaWiki:Common.js/edit.js currently appears in the categories that those templates bestow.<br />
<br />
While we're on the topic, could you make it so you can insert stuff in the summary field too? (Might be more work than it's worth though…) --[[User:Xoid|Xoid]] 07:10, 25 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Hi Xoid. I can do both but it'll take quite a while. The problem is that all the content is done via JavaScript, which by definition is a nasty hack. So I'll need to hack the hack for the kludge to not turn buggy. That was fun to write.<br />
<br />
:On a separate note, I'd like to remove the <nowiki>{{template doc page transcluded}}</nowiki> template from the /doc pages. The reason is that they can be confusing to the average user. The people who want to actually modify a template are few and far between and are likely to know (or figure out on their own) where the documentation is. The vast majority of viewers will just be curious as to how the template works. Words like "transcluded" just complicate things. As an example I modified [[Template:!|<nowiki>{{!}}</nowiki>]]. If you disagree you can always rollback the changes. Thanks. --<span style="font-family:Courier">[[User:Ebakunin|Ebakunin]]</span> <sup>([[User talk:Ebakunin|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Ebakunin|contribs]])</sup> 01:19, 26 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
::Having that lil' link there saves time when you're a lazy bastard like myself, and I'd prefer that they stay. (They're also an easy way to tell whether something conforms to the TDP or not.) Rewording the template itself so that it's easy for people to figure out that the edit link there is for the poor schmucks who have to come in and correct documentation errors seems a better solution. --[[User:Xoid|Xoid]] 05:17, 3 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== References on the edit toolbar ==<br />
What am I doing wrong [[MediaWiki%3ACommon.js%2Fedit.js&diff=55912&oldid=55819|here]]? I imagine...it needs to be referenced somewhere else? --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 23:55, 25 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:The ref templates are actually in the editbar—the last two buttons insert <nowiki><ref></ref> and <references /></nowiki>. --<span style="font-family:Courier">[[User:Ebakunin|Ebakunin]]</span> <sup>([[User talk:Ebakunin|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Ebakunin|contribs]])</sup> 00:31, 26 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
::I ''knew'' that! Can I borrow your reality transfer device?--[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 01:28, 26 July 2009 (UTC)</div>
Xoid
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/index.php?title=BattleTechWiki_talk:Project_Planets&diff=57098
BattleTechWiki talk:Project Planets
2009-08-03T05:17:04Z
<p>Xoid: </p>
<hr />
<div>==Member Userbar==<br />
*Okay, Leadman, I've uploaded Skuggi's member userbar suggestion onto the Project page. What do you think? --[[User:Revanche|Revanche (admin)]] 18:35, 22 November 2006 (CST)<br />
<br />
==PHP Generated Star Systems?==<br />
I've noticed that hundreds of planets are not listed with coordinates or surrounding systems much from the periphery and clan space. Though I'm sure I can find them through ISCS and Source Books, and probably has already been suggested and implemented in someway, should a PHP image output complete with an image-map linked to respective planet wiki pages be created for each blank wiki page? At least not server-generated images but generated images and uploaded for those wiki-lost systems. I can contribute to the programming/generation process and then upload outputs for every system not listed.<br />
<br />
Also, the 60-light year zoom can be confusing as people (including me :p) may not know where in relative to the entire Inner Sphere the region may be. Some current X, Y coords are still problematic by the way. --[[User:Dracoix|Dracoix]] 04:48, 27 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Dracoix, I know there is indeed issues with the planetary DB and interest in both correcting and improving how they are handled, but I am so not the guy ready to handle this. I'm going to ask [[User:Nicjansma|Nicjansma]] (the site's founder) and [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] (probably our most dedicated planetologist) , as well as two of our code-crunching admins to weigh in over here. Please check back, because I think you may be on to something. --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 11:31, 27 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::See [[User_talk:Nicjansma#Other_extension_suggestions]] :) <br />
::The datafile on which this wiki's system data is based was an older version of the ISCS atlas and contains numerous factual errors, omissions and typos. Plus, the bot used failed to transcribe the XY coordinates correctly. Bits and pieces of this discussion are unfortunately spread across many talk pages on BTW, but essentially we need to redo the entire underlying database (that includes re-checking all XY coords where we have them, and provide approximations for where not - and then there's my pet project about unmapped worlds where we don't have as much as a clue to where they are). Once this is done, we need to agree on a proper format to present systems because the current system mixes up system names and planet names. And finally some code wizard would be required to create clickable maps from that database, with the option to alter the maps as new info becomes available. I can help collecting the data but I am totally helpless when it comes to coding. [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] 10:56, 28 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::I actually specialize in image manipulation and algorithms (watermarks, pixel functions, etc) what shall be thy bidding? >:) Except going through every source book and re-entering systems and planets into a new 99.9% error free database would be a pain. I'll get cracking on a star map tool with labeled image output (as well as CSV output) offline. It can then probably be ported into PHP. However, any image function in PHP requires GD2, server CPU usage, and bandwidth to send the generated image to the user. And yes, I'm just a guy that came out of no where, but I think I can help you guys out on this issue.<br />
:::Also how accurate were the original 2003 ISCS files? --[[User:Dracoix|Dracoix]] 23:41, 28 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::They were mostly accurate. I'd say 95% or so. I corrected a few, but not much work was needed. That said, there were probably errors that I did not catch. On a related note, might I suggest moving this discussion to [[BattleTechWiki talk: Project Planets]]? --[[User:Scaletail|Scaletail]] 01:15, 29 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::Suggestion sensible; move made. --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 02:16, 29 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::Hey all. I believe I can offer a structure to handle all the data elements using Google Maps' new GMapType class. Unfortunately, I'm swamped with work right now and it will be a few days before I can demonstrate a prototype. If you can wait a little bit I can whip together something more concrete for planning purposes.<br />
::::Draconix (and Nic), if we can get a data host and a sufficient server, we will need three db tables structured something like this (assuming it's MySQL, of course): {{emoticon|:)}}<br />
<pre><br />
CREATE TABLE system (<br />
system_id INT auto_increment,<br />
system_name VARCHAR(64) default 'name missing',<br />
system_x SMALLINT unsigned default 0,<br />
system_y SMALLINT unsigned default 0,<br />
pixel_x SMALLINT signed default 0,<br />
pixel_y SMALLINT signed default 0,<br />
control_id INT default 1,<br />
PRIMARY KEY (system_id),<br />
FOREIGN KEY (control_id) REFERENCES control(control_id)<br />
) ENGINE=InnoDB<br />
<br />
CREATE TABLE control (<br />
control_id INT auto_increment,<br />
date_3057 TINYINT default 1,<br />
date_3062 TINYINT default 1,<br />
PRIMARY KEY (control_id),<br />
FOREIGN_KEY (date_3057) REFERENCES sovereign(sovereign_id),<br />
FOREIGN_KEY (date_3062) REFERENCES sovereign(sovereign_id)<br />
) ENGINE=InnoDB<br />
<br />
CREATE TABLE sovereign (<br />
sovereign_id TINYINT auto_increment,<br />
sovereign_name VARCHAR(32) default 'name missing',<br />
PRIMARY KEY (sovereign_id)<br />
) ENGINE=InnoDB<br />
</pre><br />
<br />
::::so we can run queries like this:<br />
<pre><br />
SELECT system_name, coords_x, coords_y, pixel_x, pixel_y, sovereign_name <br />
FROM system JOIN control USING (control_id) JOIN sovereign USING (sovereign_id) <br />
WHERE system_id=XX AND date_3062=YY LIMIT 1;<br />
</pre><br />
::::Another table might be needed for alternative names, coordinates, etc. The date columns would require a good deal of foresight, unless we approached them like date ranges. Hmmm. The more I think about it, the more I like that idea, but it would require more complex queries. Oh well, a subject for another time.<br />
::::I hope this puts a bit more structure to the conversation. Thanks. --<span style="font-family:Courier">[[User:Ebakunin|Ebakunin]]</span> <sup>([[User talk:Ebakunin|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Ebakunin|contribs]])</sup> 01:22, 29 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::I suggest not using googlemaps, good idea to keep it stupid simple? I can probably handle the database on my host probably (though it's a dedicated shared server account.) It's a firewalled SQL setup though, can't make external queries, but a PHP "GET" proxy can always bypass this. By the way, anyone have a completed CVS or other text listing all the systems that's up to date? --[[User:Dracoix|Dracoix]] 03:11, 29 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::::[http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Vault/2493/ Inner Sphere Cartography Society Archive] - fantastic resource, if somewhat outdated. [[Øystein Tvedten]] (''the'' BT geographer) helped with the data. --<span style="font-family:Courier">[[User:Ebakunin|Ebakunin]]</span> <sup>([[User talk:Ebakunin|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Ebakunin|contribs]])</sup> 03:27, 29 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::::::I already have those files, I was referring to the corrected ones. Funny you should mention about Oyst, I actually asked him about terrain for planets (to 3D model) a year back or so. Long story for another day. --[[User:Dracoix|Dracoix]] 03:35, 29 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::::::[http://isatlas.teamspam.net/ Original ISATLAS of ISCS] I knew it existed somewhere. Can I use this collected data to build a new database? Or will there be a copyright issue? They seem to have the concept nailed down...Though it's lost to its own site map links. --[[User:Dracoix|Dracoix]] 03:53, 29 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::::::The original 'Planets' pages were created from the ISCS data, specifically I think [http://sarna.net/files/fileinfo.php?file=data/planets/iscs/iscs_20000328_tab.zip this file]. Is there an updated version? It looks like ISCS's website has been updated recently to include a lot more info. I used the ISCS data file, in conjunction with a components database, and built a C# app to pre-build the 'wiki-code' for all of the planets. This code is located [http://nicj.net/files/BtwPlanetsCreator.zip here]. Ideally, I would prefer to have all pages and images pre-built instead of re-querying the database for data that we know is essentially static. [[User:Nicjansma|Nicjansma]] 06:41, 29 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::::::But that's the point Nic: It's ''not'' essentially static. It should be, but it plainly isn't. The data will require corrections and additions again and again, which is why I think we should implement something that can easily be modified with updated data. [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] 09:29, 29 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
::::::::::If we're going to go this route, why not just go all the way? Have Sarna simply switch to auto-generating nearly all its content on the fly. There are relatively few things that can't be auto-generated; all of it "flavour". Anything with statistics behind it can be accommodated through automation. Note that this would require partially forking Sarna's MediaWiki installation. --[[User:Xoid|Xoid]] 05:17, 3 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==PHP Generator Part 2 (Sandboxing)==<br />
(New section on regards to sandboxing drafts.)<br />
So we know that the systems are in disarray, and the original data is still useful, and some of the planets may need to be corrected and re-regenerated down the line. I propose an off-wiki sandbox on another site. That way the wiki will not be affected until the draft template and generated images are finalized. First things first, we need an image template basis. I can work with almost anything image related in PHP (job related story for another day.) <br />
<br />
I'll start coding the outputs at http://mindoftheq.net/btw/planetgen.php?&p=PLANETNAME&y=YEAR where PLANETNAME would be the case-insensitive planet/system name and YEAR would be the non-specific control year. I like to keep things idiot-proof and dynamically friendly :). I'll even provide the SQL builds for download.<br />
<br />
In all the output would be like a completed wiki page complete with a generated image with image-map links. Input would be greatly appreciated regarding the image template. --[[User:Dracoix|Dracoix]] 16:05, 30 July 2009 (UTC)</div>
Xoid
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/index.php?title=Template:BattleTechWiki_category/doc&diff=55880
Template:BattleTechWiki category/doc
2009-07-25T07:40:14Z
<p>Xoid: TDP</p>
<hr />
<div><includeonly>{{template doc page transcluded}}</includeonly><noinclude>{{template doc page viewed directly}}</noinclude><br />
<!-- EDIT TEMPLATE DOCUMENTATION BELOW THIS LINE --><br />
This template is intended to be used at the top of categories that are needed for maintenance or administrative purposes, but are not part of the wiki itself, for example [[:Category:BattleTechWiki administration]].<br />
<includeonly><br />
<!-- ADD CATEGORIES BELOW THIS LINE --><br />
[[Category:Category namespace templates]]<br />
<!-- ADD INTERWIKIS BELOW THIS LINE --><br />
<br />
</includeonly></div>
Xoid
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/index.php?title=Talk:Feng_Huang&diff=55879
Talk:Feng Huang
2009-07-25T07:32:47Z
<p>Xoid: Refactoring.</p>
<hr />
<div>==Picture?==<br />
Does anybody have a picture of the Feng Huang? --[[User:Aldous|Aldous]] 08:28, 24 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Added. [[User:Cyc|Cyc]] 09:40, 24 July 2009 (UTC)</div>
Xoid
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/index.php?title=Template:!/doc&diff=55878
Template:!/doc
2009-07-25T07:23:25Z
<p>Xoid: Typo.</p>
<hr />
<div><includeonly>{{template doc page transcluded}}</includeonly><noinclude>{{template doc page viewed directly}}</noinclude><br />
<!-- EDIT TEMPLATE DOCUMENTATION BELOW THIS LINE --><br />
This is an auxiliary template allowing to encode "<code>|</code>" within template parameters.<br />
<br />
For obvious reasons this is a '''high risk template''', and it cannot be [[BTW:SUBST|substituted]].<br />
<includeonly><br />
<!-- ADD CATEGORIES BELOW THIS LINE --><br />
[[Category:Template templates|{{PAGENAME}}]]<br />
[[Category:BattleTechWiki workaround templates|{{PAGENAME}}]]<br />
<!-- ADD INTERWIKIS BELOW THIS LINE --><br />
<br />
</includeonly></div>
Xoid
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/index.php?title=Template:!&diff=55877
Template:!
2009-07-25T07:22:59Z
<p>Xoid: TDP</p>
<hr />
<div>|<noinclude><br />
{{/doc}}<br />
<!-- Add cats and interwikis to the /doc subpage, not here! --><br />
</noinclude></div>
Xoid
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/index.php?title=Template:!/doc&diff=55876
Template:!/doc
2009-07-25T07:22:01Z
<p>Xoid: TDP</p>
<hr />
<div><includeonly>{{template doc page transcluded}}</includeonly><noinclude>{{template doc page viewed directly}}</noinclude><br />
<!-- EDIT TEMPLATE DOCUMENTATION BELOW THIS LINE --><br />
This is an auxiliary template allowing to encode "<code>!</code>" within template parameters.<br />
<br />
For obvious reasons this is a '''high risk template''', and it cannot be [[BTW:SUBST|substituted]].<br />
<includeonly><br />
<!-- ADD CATEGORIES BELOW THIS LINE --><br />
[[Category:Template templates|{{PAGENAME}}]]<br />
[[Category:BattleTechWiki workaround templates|{{PAGENAME}}]]<br />
<!-- ADD INTERWIKIS BELOW THIS LINE --><br />
<br />
</includeonly></div>
Xoid
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/index.php?title=Template:Stub&diff=55875
Template:Stub
2009-07-25T07:19:32Z
<p>Xoid: </p>
<hr />
<div><div class="messagebox" style="text-align: center">[[Image:Madcat.gif|30px]]'''This article or section is a [[w:Wikipedia:Stub|stub]] (i.e., in need of additional material). You can help us by [{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit}} expanding it]'''</div><includeonly>[[Category:Stub|{{PAGENAME}}]]</includeonly><noinclude><br />
{{/doc}}<br />
<!-- Add cats and interwikis to the /doc subpage, not here! --><br />
</noinclude></div>
Xoid
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/index.php?title=Template:Stub/doc&diff=55874
Template:Stub/doc
2009-07-25T07:18:52Z
<p>Xoid: </p>
<hr />
<div><includeonly>{{template doc page transcluded}}</includeonly><noinclude>{{template doc page viewed directly}}</noinclude><br />
<!-- EDIT TEMPLATE DOCUMENTATION BELOW THIS LINE --><br />
==Purpose==<br />
*The stub template is added either to the top or bottom of an article (not both) in order to mark the article as requiring help from other editors. The act of placing the stub template also adds the article to the Stub category, allowing other editors to easily identify what articles need attention.<br />
<br />
==Usage==<br />
*Cut & Paste '''<nowiki>{{stub}}</nowiki>''' into the article, either before any legitimate article material or at the bottom, after any category links.<br />
<includeonly><br />
<!-- ADD CATEGORIES BELOW THIS LINE --><br />
[[Category:Stub templates|{{PAGENAME}}]]<br />
<!-- ADD INTERWIKIS BELOW THIS LINE --><br />
<br />
</includeonly></div>
Xoid
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/index.php?title=User_talk:Ebakunin&diff=55873
User talk:Ebakunin
2009-07-25T07:10:26Z
<p>Xoid: /* Transcluded */ Another touch up to MediaWiki:Common.js/edit.js required…</p>
<hr />
<div>* '''[[User talk:Ebakunin/Archive|Talk Archive]]'''<br />
<br />
<br />
== Liberator ==<br />
I took the liberty (no pun intended) of changing your last edit to italics, which is what I presume you had intended (you used double quotes, which are not read by mediawiki the same way as two single quotes). If I presumed wrong, please let me know. --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 11:44, 18 June 2009 (PDT)<br />
<br />
:I thought the BT convention is to put named ships in quotes, while ship classes are put in italics (much like 'Mechs). Am I wrong here? Thanks. --[[User:Ebakunin|Ebakunin]] 11:55, 18 June 2009 (PDT)<br />
<br />
::Let me say that I'm uncertain. If there is a policy or stated convention here, please point me in that direction. However, based on my own interest in things naval (I'm a naval officer), I lean towards italicizing ship names. Scaletail and I generally lean towards the adoption of Wikipedia policies on areas where we haven't yet adopted a similar policy (especially in regards to references and copyediting). I don't have the time just now to find & check their policy, but [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Raven_(MHC-61) this article] tells me they lean towards italicizing. Quotes just seem to be an odd way of highlighting a ship's name. --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 12:02, 18 June 2009 (PDT)<br />
<br />
:::You're absolutely right. I was basing quotes vs. italics on CBL's conventions, which I was mistaken about. I took a look at ''[[Jihad Secrets: The Blake Documents]]'' where the ''Invincible'' WarShip is in italics. My bad. Won't happen again. Thanks for pointing out the problem --[[User:Ebakunin|Ebakunin]] 12:17, 18 June 2009 (PDT) {{emoticon|:P}}<br />
::::No, not a problem. You've actually given me another reason to write a Manual of Style for the wiki. This is a good one. --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 13:05, 18 June 2009 (PDT)<br />
<br />
== Wiki experience ==<br />
Hey, Ebakunin. It's clear to me that MediaWiki doesn't scare you. What kind of experience do you have with it?<br />
--[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 12:08, 3 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Dash or Code ==<br />
[[User:Xoid|Xoid]] once tried to explain this to me, but it went over my head. Why do you prefer to use the code <nowiki>&ndash;</nowiki>, instead of a dash? --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 03:41, 7 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
:And why didn't nowiki not work here? --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 03:41, 7 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:: '''Usage:'''<br />
::There's three type of dash [[w:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_XML_and_HTML_character_entity_references|entities]] (letter-like symbols), each slightly longer than the previous:<br />
<pre><br />
- (standard hyphen)<br />
– (&amp;ndash;)<br />
— (&amp;mdash;)<br />
</pre><br />
<br />
::In general, the short dash is used for hyphenated words, the long dash ("mdash") for connecting sentence fragments, and the "ndash" for everything else. For example:<br />
<br />
::* (standard hyphen) "Teaching a pre-teen to drive is a bad idea."<br />
::* (&amp;ndash;) George Washington, February 22, 1732 – December 14, 1799<br />
::* (&amp;mdash;) "Sarah, no matter what he said—and I know he said a lot—I promise you they were all lies."<br />
<br />
::'''Browser interpretation:'''<br />
::Here's where it gets complicated. A "[[w:Character (computing)|character]]" is basically a number, letter, or entity the can fit in one letter space. For example, "K" and "Æ" are characters since they take up one space, but "AE" is not. Since there are a ''lot'' of characters (©, ¥, ñ, etc.) and a limited number of keys on the keyboard, each character has an HTML character entity reference so the browser knows what to display. It has to be something weird so no one will accidentally type it and get confused, which is why &amp;ndash; gives you – and &amp;mdash; gives you —.<br />
<br />
::All the entities I've mentioned are perfectly valid letters/symbols that just don't show up on an American English keyboard. Therefore they are ''not'' HTML tags like &lt;div&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt; won't work on them.<br />
<br />
::Because they are entities, you can also cut-and-paste them just like any other letter. They're not readily available on my keyboard, though, which is why I type them out the long way. If BTW had a symbol insert list like Wikipedia offers (the one that lets you insert ©, ¥, ñ, etc.) I would use it instead.<br />
<br />
::That turned out to be a rather long winded response, but I hope it helped. {{emoticon|:)}} --<span style="font-family:Courier">[[User:Ebakunin|Ebakunin]]</span> <sup>([[User talk:Ebakunin|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Ebakunin|contribs]])</sup> 04:52, 7 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::NO! That absolutely helped. It also assuaged my guilt over not using the code, since I knew I could use it incorrectly. I see that is not the case, but that I'm free to use regular dashes. Thanks, Ebakunin. I appreciate it. --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 20:33, 7 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Timeline tags ==<br />
Having seen the awesome job you did on the yearlist, here's an idea I had: On the Starwars wiki, there is one or more era symbol(s) in each article (where appropriate), denoting during which eras a certain vehicle was used or a certain event occurred. I liked this concept, but totally lack the skills to implement something similar on BTW. You, on the other hand, seem quite skilled in this respect... [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] 21:11, 7 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:I know what you're referring to, but unfortunately the era symbols use JavaScript for correct positioning. Since I don't have access to BTW's JavaScript I can't do the work. Sorry. --[[User:Ebakunin|Ebakunin]] 21:14, 7 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Is it a one time code addition or something that would need constant access? --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 22:08, 7 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::To be honest, it would require admin status, as I would need to modify the [[Special:AllMessages|system messages]] page. --[[User:Ebakunin|Ebakunin]] 22:38, 7 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Wannabe_kate code ==<br />
Ebakunin, do you feel the editcounter code [http://toolserver.org/~interiot/cgi-bin/Tool1/wannabe_kate?code on this site] can be used here, if installed? --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 01:06, 8 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Bump. I was hoping you could see if this is something we could have installed on our server, rather than go thru Interiot's. The tool was very informative (IMO) and I'd love to be able to use it again. Thanks. --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 04:11, 11 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Would you first go [[w:WikiProject_edit_counters#MediaWiki_features_and_extensions|here]] and let me know which editcounter you prefer. Afterward, I'll need to talk with Nic about adding the tool to the site. He will need to do the dirty work. --[[User:Ebakunin|Ebakunin]] 05:34, 11 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::Technically, its [http://toolserver.org/~interiot/cgi-bin/count_edits this one], but he offers [http://toolserver.org/~interiot/cgi-bin/Tool1/wannabe_kate?code this code] from [http://toolserver.org/~interiot/cgi-bin/Tool1/wannabe_kate this page]. I'm not even certain the code to run the editcounter is available, but maybe what I provided you only links into the (possibly defunct) master server. --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 06:25, 11 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Banner Placement ==<br />
Ebakunin, please find an appropriate place to put this on your [[User:Ebakunin|userpage]]: <br><br />
[[File:BTW Admin.jpg]]<br><br />
--[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 05:03, 9 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Congratulations, and Welcome to the Admin team! [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] 10:16, 10 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Edittools==<br />
I'm constantly forgetting how to use the <references/> code and then having to look up how I used it in the past. How would I make use of your editool? --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 18:39, 9 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
:What code? --[[User:Ebakunin|Ebakunin]] 18:40, 9 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
::[[MediaWiki:Edittools]]. Maybe I've mis-understood the intent of this page. --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 20:21, 9 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::Edit any page and look under the text box. You'll see the results. --[[User:Ebakunin|Ebakunin]] 20:39, 9 July 2009 (UTC) {{emoticon|:)}}<br />
::::So, how do you like your steaks? Certain cut? Expensive? Baked Alaska with that? Seriously...thank you!--[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 20:44, 9 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Template:Cite ==<br />
Ebakunin, do you think you might be able to get the cite tag to work properly? --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 19:25, 11 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:I'm not sure what you're referring to. --[[User:Ebakunin|Ebakunin]] 23:42, 11 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Belay my last. I figured out what I wanted to get done. --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 00:47, 12 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== blanking pages ==<br />
I'm going to keep blanking pages. I can't be banned because I'm not logged on. {{unsigned|68.81.95.145|20:12, 16 July 2009 (UTC)}}<br />
<br />
:Hi. Would you please be more specific as to what's going on. I logged out and then edited [[Kell Hound Pilot (CCG - Limited)]] without any issues. I'm unsure how to recreate the problem you encountered. Thanks. --<span style="font-family=Courier">[[User:Ebakunin|Ebakunin]]</span> <sup>([[User talk:Ebakunin|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Ebakunin|contribs]])</sup> 20:36, 16 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Watchout ==<br />
I'm catching up with you on editcounts. Today i gained 3 to your 1 addition. Only 84 more to go (which equates to about 4,200 more, by that counter's function). Be afraid, be very afraid. :P--[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 03:49, 17 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Ebakunin sig ==<br />
Re: {{tl|Ebakunin sig}}, I've corrected the timestamps and removed the four calls to it. I guess this means that it is no longer required? (Seems as if you decided against using it.) --[[User:Xoid|Xoid]] 13:33, 17 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Yeah, I didn't realize you could customize your signature using wikicode. I need to double back and replicate the template results before deleting the template, otherwise all the signatures will disappear. --<span style="font-family:Courier">[[User:Ebakunin|Ebakunin]]</span> <sup>([[User talk:Ebakunin|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Ebakunin|contribs]])</sup> 17:48, 17 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
::Actually, that's what I did, but it seems you already figured that out. :D<br />
::It sort of surprised me really, most people who use vanity templates store them in the User namespace. e.g., <code><nowiki>{{User:Ebakunin/sig}}</nowiki></code>. I used to be a template sigger myself but I changed my ways after seeing a wiki go down in flames when it was vandalised. That, and I finally realised that each signature template tends to be a real strain on the server. --[[User:Xoid|Xoid]] 02:15, 18 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
:BTW, nice to finally meet you {{emoticon|:)}} --<span style="font-family:Courier">[[User:Ebakunin|Ebakunin]]</span> <sup>([[User talk:Ebakunin|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Ebakunin|contribs]])</sup> 17:48, 17 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
::And it's nice to be back. Ah, nostalgia. :P --[[User:Xoid|Xoid]] 02:15, 18 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== 25 Years of Art & Fiction ==<br />
You put a specific date on the moratorium. Does that mean the print edition is for sale already?--[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 23:37, 17 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Nope, my mistake. Fixing it now. --<span style="font-family:Courier">[[User:Ebakunin|Ebakunin]]</span> <sup>([[User talk:Ebakunin|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Ebakunin|contribs]])</sup> 23:42, 17 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Roger, thanks. My hopes are dashed so easily.--[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 23:46, 17 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== -moz-border-radius-topleft ==<br />
One reason I always shied away from that property is because of its non-universal support. Be careful that in freeing the web from the tyranny of IE's non-compliance with standards that we don't…yada, yada. You get the drift.<br />
<br />
That reminds me, would I be imposing upon you if I asked for the horizontal ellipsis to be added to that JavaScript-based monstrosity of yours down there? *points at the "'''Insert a character:'''" thingamajig at the bottom of his screen*--[[User:Xoid|Xoid]] 06:44, 18 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:The only reason the I use the -moz-border-radius attribute is because it degrades gracefully to all other browsers. Don't worry – I never use any nonstandard tags (with the exception of filter:alpha(opacity=XX)). I can't think of any other nonstandard attributes I use either other than "-moz". --<span style="font-family:Courier">[[User:Ebakunin|Ebakunin]]</span> <sup>([[User talk:Ebakunin|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Ebakunin|contribs]])</sup> 16:38, 18 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Color ==<br />
Quick question: what code do I use to change the color of certain text? I thought <nowiki><color=brown></color></nowiki> would have worked, but it does not. --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 05:08, 19 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Unless you want me to create a template, you should use <nowiki><span></nowiki>, one of the few HTML tags allowed in the wiki. Try this: <nowiki><span style="color:blue">example</span></nowiki>. It will display <span style="color:blue">example</span>. You can apply other font attributes [http://www.w3schools.com/css/css_reference.asp#font too]. --<span style="font-family:Courier">[[User:Ebakunin|Ebakunin]]</span> <sup>([[User talk:Ebakunin|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Ebakunin|contribs]])</sup> 05:15, 19 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Aaah-kay. Thanks. It apparently doesn't work within the {{tl|quote}} template, but it does work outside it. Thanks, Ebakunin. --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 05:25, 19 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Transcluded==<br />
Ebakunin, requesting a kludge be shoehorned into [[MediaWiki:Common.js/edit.js]]: can you ensure that no "{" is next to another "{"? As it is, the templates this script allows you to insert are actually transcluded. While I theorise that there might be other side effects, MediaWiki:Common.js/edit.jscurrently appears in the categories that those templates bestow.<br />
<br />
While we're on the topic, could you make it so you can insert stuff in the summary field too? (Might be more work than it's worth though…) --[[User:Xoid|Xoid]] 07:10, 25 July 2009 (UTC)</div>
Xoid
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/index.php?title=Category:Article_tracking_categories&diff=55871
Category:Article tracking categories
2009-07-25T06:00:15Z
<p>Xoid: Created page with 'Category:Tracking categories'</p>
<hr />
<div>[[Category:Tracking categories]]</div>
Xoid
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/index.php?title=Category:Articles_needing_to_be_peer_reviewed&diff=55870
Category:Articles needing to be peer reviewed
2009-07-25T06:00:02Z
<p>Xoid: </p>
<hr />
<div>This category contains articles (and categories of articles) that need peer review.<br />
<br />
[[Category:Article tracking categories]]</div>
Xoid
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/index.php?title=User_talk:Xoid&diff=55869
User talk:Xoid
2009-07-25T05:42:52Z
<p>Xoid: /* Okay… I'll bite */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{User:Xoid/nav}}<br />
{{TOCright}}<br />
<br />
== Okay… I'll bite ==<br />
[[Policy:Editing|I'm curious]]. {{emoticon|;)}}--[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 19:20, 19 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
:It's a tale of two &#123;{cite}}s :P<br />
:Check out most of the pages with {{tl|cite}} on it. These are ones that are, for the most part, either imported by or written by Wikipedians. &#123;{cite}} on BTW and &#123;{cite}} on Wikipedia currently work very, very differently and are utterly incompatible. I'm replacing instances of the currently correct usage with &#123;{citation needed}} because it's less work to import pages from Wikipedia than it is to import and have to change dozens of citations each time. --[[User:Xoid|Xoid]] 19:25, 19 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
::I think I got it: [[Hesperus II]] uses <nowiki>{{cite}}</nowiki> the same way we use <nowiki><ref></nowiki>. If I understand it, we'll start using <nowiki>{{citation needed}}</nowiki> needed instead of <nowiki>{{cite}}</nowiki>, and then allow imported WP pages to use <nowiki>{{cite}}</nowiki> the same way we use <nowiki><refs></nowiki>.--[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 21:50, 19 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::I believe they used to use them "semi-interchangeably". Nowadays they actually use the two together, as seen in the pages we have that currently use it (pretty sure I fixed the few that had it used as {{tl|cn}} so any page out of the rest should display correctly now). I still need to clear up the templates a touch, maybe trim out a lot of the crap in, import and refactor their documentation, etc., but that can wait until another day. <br />
:::You can still use &#123;{cn}} if you're lazy. Pretty sure there isn't a commonly used template with that name. --[[User:Xoid|Xoid]] 22:31, 19 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
::::Okay. I just want to be sure your work is properly documented, so that people don't continue to use the wrong one unknowingly. I ''think'' I understand; I just need to view it from the perspective of a new Editor, to be sure.--[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 23:03, 19 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::::Kk, understood. :)<br />
:::::Only you used &#123;{cite}} for its old purpose (as opposed to &#123;{cn}} which is completely unaffected), so I don't think confusion between the two will be a problem. I will get around to properly documenting the current incarnation but not right now — there is too much that needs to be done to clean it up first and I'm not going to produce documentation if it'll become useless within the day. I'll get to work on cleaning it up "when I get around to it", probably some time this afternoon, documentation will follow shortly thereafter. --[[User:Xoid|Xoid]] 23:11, 19 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
::::::No, I wasn't suggesting that you hadn't done so. I was speaking out loud about making sure there was no lingering traces to using the templates incorrectly. That's what I mean about approaching it as a new Editor (as a tasker to me). Just now I'm a little caught up in the drama regarding our troll. More on that privately. --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 23:23, 19 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::::::Contact info is on my page if you need it. --[[User:Xoid|Xoid]] 23:24, 19 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
::::::Point of (probably unnecessary) clarification: I am working under the belief (and was previously referring to) that Help:CUT is properly indicating the use of the {{tl|citation needed}} or {{tl|cn}} templates. --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 02:20, 20 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::::::100% correct. --[[User:Xoid|Xoid]] 08:16, 20 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
::::::Secondary: would you please take a look at my draft of [[Policy:Verifiability#Burden_of_evidence]] and see if those redlinked templates are suitably named for the same role they'd play here on BTW? If they are (and you tell me so), I'll build them here (and -of course- wait for you or Ebakunin to fix 'em). Thanks. --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 02:20, 20 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::::::The various shortcut templates could be rather easily rolled into one template with a bit of ParserFunctions. The other templates seem alright the way that they're named. Feel free to import like crazy.<br />
<br />
:::::::Rev, just promise we don't end up [http://encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/Citation_needed like this (possibly NSFW)], please. No, seriously. Wikipedia is fast becoming a joke with the number of unnecessary &#123;{cn}}s everywhere, and the complete ban on original research is applied to the obscure and obvious alike. A broad "sources" entry at the bottom should be sufficient for someone wanting to know where to read more about the topic in general. I want to know that &#123;{cn}} (and the &#60;ref>s that replace them) will be restricted to things that are either historical, highly suspect (e.g. "Clan Ghost Bear is a misnomer; their totem is actually David Hasselhoff.") or would seem so to someone familiar with BT but not the topic at hand (perhaps something like the Jihad to anyone versed well enough in the rest of BT lore, but deficient with ComStar?). Also fine on articles about things that are divisive amongst fans or various BT related legal debacles. --[[User:Xoid|Xoid]] 08:16, 20 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
::::::::I've seen that same xcvd cartoon before, and though not in-line with the point of the associated ED article, truly believe it hits the nail right on the head (i.e., for political speeches). Thanks for starting my morning off with a chuckle.<br />
::::::::There has been a drive (maybe since your wikibreak), to make the site as factual as possible (or more appropriately, improve the site's reputation for accuracy), with policies (most notably [[Policy:Verifiability]], which I started yesterday) and procedures that lead to an academic perspective when it comes to article writing (see [[Draconis Combine]] and [[Brotherhood of Randis]] as two good examples). My background leads me to support this move, but the side benefit should be a culture where articles become better standardized. I suspect you don't disagree with this concept, however are concerned that every other sentence will have {{tl|cn}} added onto it, thereby actually detracting from the material that is posted (and should be assumed to be factual, unless cited otherwise). That would in turn run counter to our efforts to improve the site's reputation. Have I've stated your position correctly? I definitely see that as a valid concern. As such, I'll address that in the Verifiability policy, with the point that overuse of the templates is something that we seek to avoid (maybe even referencing the very same link you provided). --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 11:35, 20 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::::::::Yup, that's my position exactly. <br />
:::::::::P.S. Sorry for the absence BTW (probably thought I disappeared again, amirite?); I got caught up at home. --[[User:Xoid|Xoid]] 03:25, 25 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::::::::P.P.S. Might be an idea to remove the link to ED on the actual policy. The last time I was there sans-adblockers the advertisements were rather "racy" if you catch my drift. Linking to it on actual policy pages doesn't seem conducive to the atmosphere that Sarna is trying to establish. --[[User:Xoid|Xoid]] 05:42, 25 July 2009 (UTC)</div>
Xoid
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/index.php?title=BattleTechWiki:Masthead&diff=55868
BattleTechWiki:Masthead
2009-07-25T05:02:27Z
<p>Xoid: Adding shortcut</p>
<hr />
<div>{{Shortcut|[[BTW:A]]}}<br />
<br />
Post in the section '''Admin Help Requests''' to get proper attention to the issue/problem. Please be specific and sign your request (by adding <nowiki> ~~~~ </nowiki> at the end).<br />
<br />
== Current Sarna.net Wiki Administrators ==<br />
* [[User:Nicjansma | NicJansma]] ([[User talk:Nicjansma|Talk]] to me)<br />
<br />
* [[User:Revanche|Revanche]] ([[User talk:Revanche|Talk]] at me)<br />
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* [[User:Xoid|Xoid]] ([[User talk:Xoid|Talk]] to me)<br />
<br />
* [[User:Scaletail|Scaletail]] ([[User talk:Scaletail|Talk]] to me)<br />
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* [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] ([[User talk:Frabby|Talk]] to me)<br />
<br />
* [[User:Ebakunin|Ebakunin]] ([[User talk:Ebakunin|Talk]] to me)<br />
<br />
Auto-updated list found [[Special:Listusers/sysop|here]]<br />
<br />
==Admin Help Requests (Outstanding)==<br />
'''Make your request here (and sign with 4 tildes (<nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>))'''<br />
<br />
===CCG Artist Randy Asplund===<br />
Just as a notice, in return for no objection to the use of his art on BTW, I said I'd provide a link back to Randy Asplund's website on the image pages and [[Randy Asplund]] article. I don't imagine any Editors will have an issue with this arrangement. --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 05:27, 16 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===Admin To-Do List===<br />
[[Talk:3053|Locis']] comments got me thinking about how we've been handling policy creation. I know that some policies that need to be written have fallen through the cracks. I would like to suggest that admins update the [[BattleTechWiki:ToDo |To Do List]] with policies that need creating when a discussion reaches consensus with a link back to the talk page in question. I know that policy writing is a pain, but it needs to be done. I'm probably the most guilty party here, but I think if we can get better organized, it will make the process easier. --[[User:Scaletail|Scaletail]] 17:58, 11 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Agreed. I'll start considering needed policies, look around WP for inspiration. Would like to stress, though, that policies are the purview of all Editors, not just Admins. This isn't aimed at Scaletail, at all: every visitor here gets a voice on BTW, and staying silent implies endorsement of the consensus. Readers that haven't edited are just as responsible for the direction of the wiki as the most industrious Editors and Admins. --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 18:35, 11 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
::Okay, I've spent a lot of time reading various Wikipedia policies and found subject areas I think we should address. However, we've got a lot more narrow scope than WP and I'm fairly certain that these policies won't address all of our needs. All Editors (not just admins) are free to suggest ideas (and even to write policy). --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 14:16, 13 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===Blocking Spammers===<br />
I've noticed a recent trend where spammers are creating User pages in which to hawk their links. '''Administrators''', please block the IP before deleting the page, so that we can start to cut down on these site attacks.<br />
Steps:<br />
# On [[Special:RecentChanges]], click on '''Block''' first.<br />
# Select a term length (my default is infinite) from '''Expiry'''.<br />
# Select ''Spamming links to external sites'' in the '''Reason''' field.<br />
# Make sure ''Prevent account creation '' and ''Automatically block the last IP address used by this user, and any subsequent IPs they try to edit from '' are checked.<br />
# Click the '''Block this user''' button<br />
# Go back to [[Special:RecentChanges]] and click on the User page.<br />
# Delete it with fervor.<br />
Thanks. --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 13:52, 6 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
: Hopefully the ReCaptcha plugin will help a bit with this. [[User:Nicjansma|Nicjansma]] 23:46, 21 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
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===Watchlist===<br />
Why does the option show all doesn't work? I can only see changes from the last 7 days but the option show all should show me changes from the last 30 days. --[[User:BigDuke66|BigDuke66]] 10:31, 11 August 2008 (CDT)<br />
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:I'm not sure. Nic? --[[User:Scaletail|Scaletail]] 19:06, 20 August 2008 (CDT)<br />
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::The default "max days" is 7 -- but I've bumped this up to 30 days for you. I couldn't verify it was working properly -- please let me know if you still only see 7 days. [[User:Nicjansma|Nicjansma]] 17:40, 1 March 2009 (PST)<br />
<br />
:::Still strange, in my preferences I tried to set the "Days to show in recent changes:" higher then 7 and also set the "Maximum number of days to show in watchlist:" higher but anything higher then 7 will be set to 7 and when I use the "all" option on my watchlist I get about 10 days. --[[User:BigDuke66|BigDuke66]] 07:43, 3 March 2009 (PST)<br />
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<br />
== Admin Help Requests (Completed) ==<br />
''Please move help requests here after the request is answered.<br />
<br />
===Community 'Forum' Name===<br />
I think its time we had a page where quick questions & answers can be asked, that don't necessarily relate to editing or admin requests. Things like:<br />
*"What was the name of that one non-Mark that became Captain-General in the war against the Sarna Supremacy?" --[[UserDude]]<br />
*"Hey...working on the article for ''Masters and Minions.'' Anyone have the production code for it?" --[[KuritaFan]]<br />
*"So...anyone think LAMs as ground vehicles, like maybe support vehicles, would be cool? I have some killer ideas." --[[LadiesMan217]]<br />
The idea would really be to provide quick answers, not so much conversations (in spite of that subtle last one), which would be directed to the Sarna forums. We'd archive it every quarter or so. This would be something similar to the Research Desk on Wikipedia. The question is: what should it be called? Chatterweb is already taken...ideas?--[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 02:46, 14 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Okay, due to lack of overall interest, and based on my forthcoming essay about the 'character' of the site (i.e., a portal for research at the University of Sarna), I'm going to call this 'forum' the Research Desk. Please find it on the top right of the [[Main Page]].--[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 01:19, 20 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===Banned Vandal attempting to get a new account?===<br />
I think you have a banned vandal attempting to get a new account. But this wiki has no where shown to send the information, and edits don't seem to be leaving any trace that they have been successful. http://www.fixya.com/support/t2634796-blocked_from_editing_www_sarna_net {{unsigned|72.183.119.36}}<br />
:Thanks. Responded to them at Fixya. --[[User:Xoid|Xoid]] 23:00, 19 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
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===Custom 'Mechs in Regular Categories?===<br />
Would like to get a feeling for consensus here: should fanon units be listed under categories (I had presumed) reserved for canon units. For example, [[Gatling]] is added to the BattleMechs | Medium BattleMechs | 45 ton BattleMechs | Free World's League BattleMechs categories. To be honest, I'd shy away from that and lump them under the catchall category of [[:Category:BattleMechsCustom]]. --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 21:35, 10 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
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:According to our [[Policy:Canon]], this wiki expressly tolerates custom/Fanon (fan-made non-canonical information) content under the premise that it is clearly marked as such. It think that, by extension, this requires Fanon articles be kept out of the categories.<br />
:Personally, I even feel strongly against but as you may know I am of the opinion that Fanon content is detrimental to the image of this wiki anyways. (I've been overruled on this issue and I can live with that. BTW still rocks.) [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] 00:14, 11 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
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::As do you, Frabby. Thanks for the guidance. I'll fix this one now and hopefully the established templates for custom units will help prevent this categorization overlap. --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 00:23, 11 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
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<br />
===Category:People===<br />
I started added the characters to [[:Category:People]] because it is on the main page when I realized that there is also a [[:Category:PeopleFictional]]. Since I'm sure nobody wants two identical categories, which one should we use? My vote goes to People because it's shorter and easier to find. [[User:Scaletail|Scaletail]] 14:58, 25 March 2007 (CDT)<br />
:: I vote for People as well. [[User:Nicjansma|Nicjansma]] 11:40, 26 March 2007 (CDT)<br />
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<br />
===Spam===<br />
:I just recently had to fix the Board Game page from a spammer, IP is 202.212.58.10 in case you want to block or take whatever action you need to. --[[User:CJKeys|CJKeys]] 11:11, 6 November 2006 (CST)<br />
:: Thanks CJKeys. I think I'll try to implement a captcha system for new changes that include outside URLs like wikia.com does. [[User:Nicjansma|Nicjansma]] 15:32, 6 November 2006 (CST)<br />
:::Had to fix it the [[Board Game]] page again, the IP for the spammer this time was 200.31.148.46. I dont know if you can block IPs but I thought I would let you know it happened again. Thanks. --[[User:CJKeys|CJKeys]] 00:24, 8 November 2006 (CST)<br />
::::Also, thanks, CJ. I blocked both IPs for 3 months. --[[User:Revanche|Revanche (admin)]] 01:10, 8 November 2006 (CST)<br />
:::::This looks like a minor annoying problem right now, but I could see it getting worse. Should I spend time investigating captcha for external links in edits? [[User:Nicjansma|Nicjansma]] 21:42, 21 November 2006 (CST)<br />
::::::I had to look the term up, since its the second time you've suggested this. How would you envision it working? Would everytime someone made an edit, they'd have to translate the image? Or, would we limit wiki editing only to registered users, who had to pass this test to register? The latter would be preferable to me. --[[User:Revanche|Revanche (admin)]] 00:17, 22 November 2006 (CST)<br />
:::::::Well I still want to allow anonymous edits. The captcha prompt would only occur if 1) The user was not logged in (not registered) AND 2) they posted an edit with an external link. This would avoid 90% of the 'referral spam' that spambots want. It wouldn't block vandalism, but we're only trying to curb spam-bots with captcha.<br />
::::::::I like it. It is not restrictive for 95% of any edits, as how many times will an unregistered user seek to post links? Is this something you think you can turn on? --[[User:Revanche|Revanche (admin)]] 10:21, 22 November 2006 (CST)<br />
:::::::::There may even be a way to get around needing that. The nastiest stuff is usually the ''div style="display: none"'' and similar crap that adbots love to toss around. You can also try setting a spam blocking RegEx similar to the one Wikipedia uses. It's one of the settings that is heavily documented on either [http://meta.wikimedia.org Meta] or [http://www.mediawiki.org MediaWiki.org]. --[[User:Xoid|Xoid]] 11:49, 22 November 2006 (CST)<br />
<br />
:Some spammer just created this new article [[Board Game/]]. Can an admin please send in a few Stars of Elementals for a housecleaning mission? --[[User:Basara|Basara]] 15:04, 10 February 2007 (CST)<br />
::Went Turtle Bay on his ass. Thanks for the head's up. --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 17:27, 10 February 2007 (CST)<br />
<br />
<br />
I've added a captcha system for BTW to combat SPAM. It will be triggered under the following conditions: [[User:Nicjansma|Nicjansma]] 18:39, 14 February 2007 (CST)<br />
# New account creation ''or''<br />
# Editing an article under '''all''' the following circumstances:<br />
::The article contains a ''new'' link to an ''external'' website<br />
::The user is not logged in<br />
::The external link is ''not'' to wikipedia.org or mediawiki.org<br />
<br />
I hope this will be agreeable and adequate. Logged in users will never see the captcha, nor will anonymous users see it unless they post an external link. [[User:Nicjansma|Nicjansma]] 18:39, 14 February 2007 (CST)<br />
:Thank you! It was starting to get bad in the last few days. --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 19:21, 14 February 2007 (CST)<br />
::Bad? This was nothing. When you are reverting five adbots, all of which are active at the same time, while you're on your own, and all of them use a myriad of proxies '''and''' sign up under new usernames… these bots haven't even started the long road to being annoying… they're not even hiding their garbage with non-displaying &lt;div&gt;s. --[[User:Xoid|Xoid]] 00:36, 17 February 2007 (CST)<br />
<br />
New funny guy to clean up after, article is [[Unseen]]. [[User:CJKeys|CJKeys]] 11:51, 28 February 2007 (CST)<br />
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<br />
===Copyright Infringement===<br />
Greetings. I have recently become involved in contributing to BattleTech through the Wikipedia end. I submitted one article over there, "[[Chaos March]]." I came over here, only to find that my article had been copied verbatim. By itself, this is fine, because I know Wikipedia articles are public-domain, however no credit was given on the part of the person who 'ported the article to MechWiki. I would appreciate it that, for all articles taken from Wikipedia, credit be given to the original author and/or a link be provided to the original article (as provided in Wikipedia's copyright, which can be found here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Copyrights). Since the only article of mine in question I have found is "Chaos March," that is all I am concerned with, however, I am sure the other authors from Wikipedia would appreciate it if you gave them the same consideration. {{unsigned|4.234.144.246}}<br />
<br />
:Great. Just. Great. ''*sigh*''. Alright; damage control. Nic: can you tell me exactly which pages were auto-generated? I'll run kdiff against a list of all articles with your list of generated articles so we know which ones to exclude from our inquisitorial purge. Revanche: a list of all articles you've imported would be appreciated.<br />
:Note that I could go through the 'Mechs and see if I can find any parts that are copied verbatim, though for obvious reasons that would be a PWOT (I know everything I've submitted is my own work, Daniel's 'articles' are next to non-existent and its rather obvious from CJ's fractured English that he wrote his articles himself (no offense intended CJ)). From there we've got two options here; nuke the lot and start over, or get cracking on providing appropriate licensing information. For obvious reasons I'd prefer the latter, but if you're antsy about getting sued go for the former. --[[User:Xoid|Xoid]] 13:13, 13 December 2006 (CST)<br />
<br />
::My apologies for not signing up and signing earlier. My bleary eyes couldn't find the "create an account," button, even though it's in the same place as Wikipedia's. Apologies are certainly accepted. Lord knows I've made mistakes in the past. I'm not going to sue, I was just upset at not being credited for my work. I think this project is a great idea that can contribute a lot to the BattleTech community. Moreover, I have trolled on sarna.net for around a decade, and I would do nothing that might harm it. I think I have somewhat of an idea of at least some pages that were 'ported over and, if you all don't mind, I'll assist in linking them back to Wikipedia. [[User:Scaletail|Scaletail]] 21:17, 13 December 2006 (CST)<br />
:::Sure, any assistance is appreciated. I wasn't worried about you per se, I'm worried about the 'we'll sue your pants off' type; we all know they exist and it's better to be safe than sorry. Once upon a time we ran into legal troubles at another wiki I work on. I do not want a repeat here. I hope that explains my somewhat panicked reaction. --[[User:Xoid|Xoid]] 00:01, 14 December 2006 (CST)<br />
::::I'm assuming your reffering to the name change of a group on UD?--[[User:The General|The General]]<sup>[[User_talk:The_General|T]]</sup> 20:33, 14 December 2006 (CST)<br />
:::::Yup, that's the one. --[[User:Xoid|Xoid]] 02:04, 15 December 2006 (CST)<br />
<br />
:::Scaletail, any assistance you could give us in this matter, such as pointing out articles that may be infringing would be much appreciated. We are dedicated to making this wiki legit, as well as not upsetting others who have contributed to BattleTech :) [[User:Nicjansma|Nicjansma]] 13:35, 14 December 2006 (CST)<br />
<br />
:: I apologize, 4.234.144.246. I had not realized that article was copied verbatim.<br />
:: ''Most'' of the 3,000 pages here are autogenerated (Planets, etc). We can use DynamicPageList (DPL) to get articles not in categories we've autogenerated and or created (mech articles).. try [[BattleTechWiki:SuspectPages]]. We can use that page list to review articles to see if they've been copied. We should also setup a template to link back to Wikipedia for articles that have been copied to give credit. [[User:Nicjansma|Nicjansma]] 16:46, 13 December 2006 (CST)<br />
:::Okay, guys: things are well-in-hand already, as long as we have wikicitizens helping the whole community with the procedures already in place. First of all, efforts have already been initiated to deal with this via the <nowiki>{{wikipedia}}</nowiki> tag. As 'ported articles are rediscovered, they can be linked back there. Back then, when I did much of the importing, I didn't have actual admin priviledges to do so, so it had to be exactly as it was seen, a cut & paste from wiki. The intent was clear: a different audience was being addressed. Where Wikipedia reaches out with encyclopedic info for the world that 'knows nothing' and wants to be educated on a subject, [[BTW]] is a source for fans/players of BattleTech who would not necissarily beturning to Wikipedia for source information. I 'needed' to do something quickly to show the relevance of BTW to people dropping by to check it out and I was also trying to keep the BattleTech wikiers from being fragmented between two BT-centric wikis (the other being the [http://battletech.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page MechWikia]).<br />
:::Since then, I have alternated between using the import function granted to admins and/or stating that the article was imported in the initial summary line. There was no intent to claim ownership of the articles written, and that's the purpose of the <nowiki>{{wikipedia}}</nowiki> tag. (Point-in-fact, similar work is supposed to be pointing back to the same article over here from Wikipedia, by contribs over there.) Now, I'm not going to go back thru my contribs and hit each one up, as I'm close enough to calling a wikibreak as it is. However, as is true with every other article here, each is a work in progress and no one person will ever be able to claim "that's my article" if the wiki is successful (i.e. many editors). The [[Help:Contents|Help]] page (and [[Help:Tags]] specifically) is very clear one how things are done here at BTW and all someone has to do is paste that tag on a page as it is re-discovered, and they'll be able to instantly see who the primary contributors of the article's history are over there.<br />
:::No offense was intended nor expected, as wikipedia works under the same 'no-ownership' policy. I understand that Scaletail does feel pride in writing a well-crafted article, and my intent was not to claim writing ability (where none exists, frankly). The article, however, has served an important article ''here'' by adding legitimacy and important information for the player base. I'd reccommend Scaletail make some minor alteration to the BTW version of the article (while its still young) with a summary note as coming from a primary Wikipedia contributor of the article. And also, feel pride that it has transcended from being an introductory peice for non-BTers, to a base article for a dedicated source of BT information.<br />
:::I, myself, am pretty much done with importing articles (or even editing the ones here) from Wikipedia, as there are so projects that I'd rather work on and the core material is completed. However, as Wikipedia has plenty of more material over there that really needs to be over here, importing by the cross-decking community is not a done-deal. If someone wants to address a policy page to this subject, please feel free. I do want to state to Nic, however, we don't need to be apologizing for the importing of articles from Wkipedia. Its open-source material and we already are trying to avoid the whole copyright dodge ball, as it is. We don't need to make it any harder for the few of us currently building this site. An apology for improper attribution to Wikipedia as the source is understandable and is being addressed with the cross-deck tag project. --[[User:Revanche|Revanche (admin)]] 11:50, 17 December 2006 (CST)<br />
:: Xoid, no offense taken. I was always a thespian, not a wordsmith and my grades in the fine arts (drama, chorus, etc.) vs English in high school would bear that out. As for my articles each of them are an original work. I will admit I have some articles that have sister articles on mechwikia but that is because I started there and when I came here I brought them with me. I woudl hope to hell I dont have to give myself credit for my own work just because it is in two places. --[[User:CJKeys|CJKeys]] 06:06, 15 December 2006 (CST)<br />
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===Wikilinks as non-case & Mercenaries category===<br />
Two things. First, is it possible to make wikilinks non-case sensitive, or do we have to set up redirects? So many things in BattleTech have an extra capitalized letter in the middle, it's often hard to get it right. Second, would it be possible to create a "merecenaries" category? That way all those merc units can have their own category, since they're really not factions all on their own. [[User:Scaletail|Scaletail]] 22:28, 26 December 2006 (CST)<br />
:Ugh...I know what you mean (regarding all of those midword capitalizations). I'm gonna leave the response for this one to [[user:Xoid|Xoid]].<br />
:As for a Mercenaries category, I think that's a great idea. Specifically, however, are you referring to the [[Main Page]], under the Factions bullet? --[[User:Revanche|Revanche (admin)]] 10:10, 30 December 2006 (CST)<br />
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::From what I've read? There's no practical way for MediaWiki to implement it without causing severe interoperability problems with foreign language versions, more processing, etc., etc., you can find specifics at [http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Case_sensitivity meta's page on case sensitivity].<br />
::I will say this though: I prefer it this way. By making sure that [[SRM-6]], [[SRM 6]] and [[srm 6]] are all different? It allows me to hunt down style inconsistencies in articles and clean them up, making for a more unified feel to the BattleTech Wiki. --[[User:Xoid|Xoid]] 05:39, 27 January 2007 (CST)<br />
:::Sorry about the delayed response. I had forgotten I put this here.... I requested a category before I opened up the section on the main page, but I would envision it as two different things, though I'm not sure if the redundancy is necessary. While I'm here, can I make a request for a "people" category. Since it is on the left-hand toolbar, it would make sense to have a category for it. [[User:Scaletail|Scaletail]] 12:07, 26 February 2007 (CST)<br />
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===Weapons, Character Pages===<br />
I have two questions. First off, if a character in BattleTech is already in the [[List of BattleTech Characters|"BattleTech characters list"]], should redirect pages be made so people get pointed straight to that location? I was thinking you would just use the context indicator so it would go straight to that person, but I thought I'd ask because you may decide to give major characters (like Sun-Tzu Liao) their own articles.<br />
:I'd actually prefer we split up [[List of BattleTech Characters|"BattleTech characters list"]] and make pages for all of the characters in there. --[[User:Nicjansma|Nicjansma]] 16:14, 7 January 2007 (CST)<br />
::Agreed. Most people are going to go for specific names, or type them in directly. Apart from being neater, and circumventing various technical limitations (both server- and client-side), it'll reduce the amount of bandwidth used on outbound traffic. --[[User:Xoid|Xoid]] 05:54, 27 January 2007 (CST)<br />
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Secondly, shouldn't the weapons articles have more information than just where the weapon is manufactured? Isn't just having only where its made kind of odd? I was wondering for two reasons: 1) starting to put summaries on '''ALL''' the weapons pages would make a huge difference, and I wasn't sure if doing that would be against the BTW beliefs on the layout of said weps-articles. 2) If someone who knew very little about BattleTech wanted to find out more, here would be a great start. However, if they try to understand how a PPC or Gauss Rifle works, they would ahve to look at 'Mechs articles to (hopefully) find out.<br />
:Yes, we do want to get more data for the weapons besides just their locations of manufacture. However, when I started this wiki I pre-generated lots of pages, including using all of the manufacturing data I had available. Since some of these weapons haven't been filled with the other stats and fluff yet, all that is in them is their manuf data. --[[User:Nicjansma|Nicjansma]] 16:14, 7 January 2007 (CST)<br />
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Also, you guys should mention in one of the 'good-formatting' sections that people making new articles should see if they are spelling the linked weapons correctly. Many of the weapons listed on the Wanted Page are because a lot of people didn't use hyphens. Just saying. --[[User:~Malithion~|~Malithion~]] 13:54, 7 January 2007 (CST)<br />
:I also agree with this, however, creating redirects for simple spelling differences is easy as well. We'll never get everyone agreeing on a spelling for all items, and new people won't know about a policy like that either. It's easier, in the end, to do catch-all redirects so people get to the pages they want. --[[User:Nicjansma|Nicjansma]] 16:14, 7 January 2007 (CST)<br />
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:I believe that the names of the actual pages should be standardised, but there should still be redirects from common alterations (e.g., since [[SRM-6]] is the most prevalent 'version' so far, it would be the primary page and 'acceptable variations' would redirect to it). Ease-of-use, and a unified feel. --[[User:Xoid|Xoid]] 05:54, 27 January 2007 (CST)<br />
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Also, now that we have a [[heat sink]] article, should we just redirect to that from [[double heat sink]]? I can't think of many differences between them that warrant two articles but, hey, that's just me.<br />
Additionally, I noticed that there ''is'' a weapons template already set up (like the BattleMech box). I was wondering if any of you guys might have orginal BT data on the weps, or if its the same as the video-games. 'Cuz that's all the data I have. --[[User:~Malithion~|~Malithion~]] 18:34, 7 January 2007 (CST)<br />
:Canon data (from the board game) is what is being used. The video games tend to vary a lot (especially if you start reporting what their statistics ''actually are'', instead of ''what they say they are''). As far as I'm concerned, I believe specific pages (e.g., '[[Medium Laser]]', '[[Large Laser]]', etc.) should exist, with either relevant text be transcluded or linked to from beefy articles on the 'overall' aspect of a given technology (e.g., '[[lasers]]'). Same thing with heatsinks, etc., etc. Nic and Revanche may have other ideas though. --[[User:Xoid|Xoid]] 05:54, 27 January 2007 (CST)<br />
::No, I agree with you that the board game is the origination point for all data. Everything else can be referenced, but generally starting off from the article on the board game version of the item in question. --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 23:15, 7 February 2007 (CST)<br />
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I was curious as to whether or not we would honor labnames on this wiki. It's just a minor edit, but I was looking through the Character pages and I noticed that [[Peri]] was under the "P" section. I recall the scientist caste of the Clans being a bit more daring about the use of surnames, and adopt what they call 'labnames', surnames taken from doctors throughout history. In '[[Freebirth]]', Twilight of the Clans Book Four, she has adopted the labname Watson. Just a simple question. Thanks for your time.<br />
[[User:Jacen Pryde|Jacen Pryde]] 20:10, 10 September 2008 (CDT)<br />
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:Since they're not official, I would say "no," though it should be included in the article. --[[User:Scaletail|Scaletail]] 21:31, 10 September 2008 (CDT)<br />
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=== Drive-by deletes? ===<br />
There's been 4 articles in the last day that have had 2/3 of their article deleted by random IPs. Is this a form of vandalism? [[User:Nicjansma|Nicjansma]] 12:50, 12 April 2007 (CDT)<br />
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:It certainly sounds like it could be. What were the pages? [[User:Scaletail|Scaletail]] 18:26, 13 April 2007 (CDT)<br />
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::This has obviously been happening a lot - I've reverted probably 20 pages in the past couple of weeks with this problem. It seems odd as it's not an adbot and there doesn't seem to be any real rationale beyond just being annoying. [[User:Bdevoe|Bdevoe]]<br />
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:::I haven't seen this recently -- very strange. [[User:Nicjansma|Nicjansma]] 16:08, 2 December 2007 (CST)<br />
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===Plageurism===<br />
On the [[Thanatos]] and [[Lao Hu]] entries I had to delete the text from the articles due to the fact they were directly plageurized from another source by their original author. [[User:CJKeys|CJKeys]] 13:28, 17 May 2007 (CDT)<br />
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===Recent Spam===<br />
What can we do about this recent spam? It appears that bots are pre-pending articles with special keywords they will later search for so they know they can edit that page. Which probably won't work because we don't allow anonymous users to post external URLs. What do other wiki's do about this? [[User:Nicjansma|Nicjansma]] 22:18, 10 October 2007 (CDT)<br />
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:While it's not something I wanted to do, how about banning all IP edits? I don't know how other places handle this, but I don't think asking people to register to edit is too much. We will miss a few here a there, I would imagine, but if it stops this vandalism, I'm all for it. We could also look at it as a temporary measure until we come up with something better. [[User:Scaletail|Scaletail]] 10:51, 16 October 2007 (CDT)<br />
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::Better idea. How about changing the already-in-place captcha parameters to include all non-registered editors? [[User:Scaletail|Scaletail]] 10:45, 18 October 2007 (CDT)<br />
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::I'm opposed to this. Vandalism-by-bot will continue, with or without blocking anonymous edits. The only thing that blocking anonymous edits does is tend to cause problems; you get a flood of user accounts taking up space in the MySQL database -- making location of legitimate registered users more difficult (we are hoping we'll eventually get enough editors that [[Special:Listusers]] might eventually become a necessity, right?). Blocking anonymous edits also tends to scare off those who make once-off typo fixes. They may not contribute much, but sometimes they come back. I know that's how it was with me and Wikipedia. If I had to register an account just to fix a typo I'd never have bothered.<br />
::You'll also get the odd disgruntled user who'll make an account at BugMeNot to get around such mandatory registration, and you'll then be forced to fight a war against otherwise legitimate users. (Since there'll be no way to verify that HelpfulUser7 is always going to be the same person -- he may be a vandal one day and useful another.) Better to avoid that kettle of fish altogether, methinks. I don't particularly like your newer idea either. CAPTCHAs are seldom perfect and they are a burden on legitimate users. Considering that almost every legitimate user is registered though, it's a fine interim solution. --[[User:Xoid|Xoid]] 23:56, 22 October 2007 (CDT)<br />
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:::I agree with you in that I don't particularly like either of my suggestions, either (for much the same reasons), but I also don't see anybody else suggesting anything. I have no doubt that if there was a good, simple solution it would have already been implemented. I had meant for the CAPTCHA suggestion to be temporary, as I (perhaps incorrectly) assumed that it was something that could be done fairly easily while a more permanent solution is sought. [[User:Scaletail|Scaletail]] 17:31, 23 October 2007 (CDT)<br />
::::There's an extension that allows for this. [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:ConfirmEdit ConfirmEdit]. Permanent solutions are, in my opinion, impossible. The various botnets responsible for this stupidity consist of numerous infected PCs, many with dynamic IP addresses. If there is a spate of vandalism from a specific IP address or range, we'll block it. Apart from that? The most that can be done is to minimise harm and remain vigilant. The scumbags responsible for these botnets aren't going to close-up shop any time soon. --[[User:Xoid|Xoid]] 05:19, 24 October 2007 (CDT)<br />
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:::::I guess it's just a little frustrating for those of us who are patrolling for it. So far, [[User:Kittle|Kittle]], [[User:Scaletail|Scaletail]], and I have been doing it almost constantly and at the cost of other real work. The temp-bans seem to be having some kind of impact as I only needed to edit about 5 articles this time instead of the normal 10-20. I have found that we are missing some of the vandalism, though, as I occasionally find an article that's been recently vandalized and it has some remnant of a previous attack. I don't know that there's much more that we can do, but it does make the whole experience less than satisfying. [[User:Bdevoe|Bdevoe]] 15:48, 25 October 2007 (CDT)<br />
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::::::It definitely sucks, I agree. I'll try to remain on IM (check my [[User:Xoid|user page]] for communication avenues) so you can nudge me if you need an admin to ban someone/thing. I'm seriously considering asking Nic to bestow someone with SysOp status purely so it's possible to provide better ban hammer coverage over the day. I know Scaletail the best and would recommend him, but I've been out of the loop for too long and it'd be unfair to other editors to simply assume Scaletail is the best suited to the job. --[[User:Xoid|Xoid]] 01:01, 26 October 2007 (CDT)<br />
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:::::::With great power comes great responsibility. [[User:Scaletail|Scaletail]] 20:31, 27 October 2007 (CDT)<br />
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::::::::Can articles be protected? Some articles on WP are frequent targets of vandalism (like when Stephen Colbert tells people to), so the page in question can be protected from edits by all but an admin (or whatever the WP equivalent is). Can we do the same here with some of the most frequent targets? [[User:Scaletail|Scaletail]] 19:14, 21 November 2007 (CST)<br />
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:::::::::Unfortunately, the articles hit seem too random to be able to protect any. I've found another extension, [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:CommentSpammer CommentSpammer] that seems to address our very problem. However, it requires MediaWiki v1.12, which isn't officially released yet (we're on 1.11). I'd rather wait until v1.12 is officially released, then I'll add this extension.<br />
:::::::::I also agree with Xoid that we could use another SysOp -- Scaletail, I think you're a great fit, as you've contributed a ton to this wiki. [[User:Nicjansma|Nicjansma]] 16:08, 2 December 2007 (CST)<br />
:::::::::: After months of wasting time reverting these 'gibberish' edits from spammers/vandalizers (having personally reverted 300+ gibberish edits so far), I'm leaning towards enabling the CAPTCHA for all anonymous edits. I know this will cause legit anonymous users a small bit of hassle, but we're still not requiring them to register and it should stop all this vandalism. Any opposition? [[User:Nicjansma|Nicjansma]] 01:19, 27 December 2007 (CST)<br />
:::::::::::Not from me. --[[User:Scaletail|Scaletail]] 07:06, 27 December 2007 (CST)<br />
::::::::::::Nor I. I would welcome it, honestly. It would actually allow us to get back to some real work. ;) [[User:Bdevoe|Bdevoe]] 08:15, 27 December 2007 (CST)<br />
:::::::::::: I have made the change. [[User:Nicjansma|Nicjansma]] 10:02, 27 December 2007 (CST)<br />
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===Main Page Sidebar Problem===<br />
Is it just me or does the sidebar get pushed far down whenever the BTW icon or Home links are selected? --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 10:15, 9 December 2007 (CST)<br />
:Just you. --[[User:Scaletail|Scaletail]] 11:47, 9 December 2007 (CST)<br />
::Seriously? That sucks. I get it on IE at home and Netscape on my ship. I wonder what could be causing it. --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 12:18, 9 December 2007 (CST)<br />
:::Gross, I see that too. I'll take a look. [[User:Nicjansma|Nicjansma]] 12:28, 9 December 2007 (CST)<br />
::::There was a missing &lt;/div&gt; on the mainpage -- seems like fixing it fixed the problem. Let me know if not. [[User:Nicjansma|Nicjansma]] 13:07, 9 December 2007 (CST)<br />
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===Uploading Program files===<br />
How can I upload program files for others to download? I've tried the "upload File" link, but is this only for images? Please Help :o)<br />
[[User:Clemmensen|Clemmensen]] 04:35, 20 August 2007 (CDT)<br />
: The [[Special:Upload | Upload File]] link is only for images. For other files, please email me (nic [at] nicj [dot] net) with what you want to share and I can upload it to the [http://www.sarna.net/files file archive]. [[User:Nicjansma|Nicjansma]] 16:08, 2 December 2007 (CST)<br />
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===CCG Cards===<br />
I noticed that the mission cards from the CCG section have no text in the text box. The main text shows up fine when I go into edit mode, but not on the page itself. I was checking out the Death from Above card and saw it. Just thought I'd point it out. [[User:Haruspex|Haruspex]] 15:13, 8 February 2008 (CST)<br />
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:Great catch! I fixed the template (it lacked the "Text" parameter), so all should be good now. --[[User:Scaletail|Scaletail]] 08:01, 9 February 2008 (CST)<br />
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===Timeline===<br />
The 2796 link for Minoru Kurita points to the Minoru who would late become part of the Nova Cats can an addional page be set up for the Elder Minoru. Thanks<br />
[[User:Ursusmajor77|Ursusmajor77]] 21:07, 22 July 2008 (CDT)<br />
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:Fixed. --[[User:Scaletail|Scaletail]] 19:06, 20 August 2008 (CDT)<br />
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===Years===<br />
I have decided I have no real purpose in life, and give the years a consistent format. What tag do I use if I am unsure if the data included is accurate?<br />
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/2016 is my basic template idea {{unsigned|Moosegod|20:31, 19 August 2008}}<br />
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:"<nowiki>{{Verify}}</nowiki>" would be the one I would use. --[[User:Scaletail|Scaletail]] 19:06, 20 August 2008 (CDT)<br />
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===Notable Pilots===<br />
Hi there, I've been going through some of the mech profiles. They look like most of them are done. I was wondering if it cool for me to add notable pilots that are both published in past TROs (original 3025 example) and from the novels. Would this be acceptable? I would be listing page, book, etc. where these characters profiles are listed. I am uncertain however, how far it be allowed. Example: Pilot of a Archer from TRO Notable Piltos. That can't be put in word for word, but apprievated version what is written. Example 2: Is duable to list pilot such as Conner Rhys-Monroe, a antagonist character whom is Rifleman RFL-8D in novel Sword of Sedition & Fortress Republic. Like notable pilots, be short listing for this character. Would this be allowable? Thank you. -- [[User:Wrangler|Wrangler]] 14:24, 3 March 2009 (PST)<br />
:You can add articles for the pilots. In fact, it would be great if you did that. And please do add as many references as you can, and as precisely as you can. I have done so myself for two characters that were notable pilots in TRO3025 and re-appeared in [[Starterbook: Sword and Dragon]]. Check out [[Terry Ford]] and [[Melinda Carlyle]] for examples. In fact, I suggest you use these articles as blueprints for your character articles on people mentioned as "notable pilots".<br />
:I would not, on the other hand, add them as notable pilots in the entries of the respective 'Mechs, in accordance with our [[:Policy:Notability]]. The reason is that they are not actually notable, but virtual nobodies in most cases. Very few of these "notable" pilots have ever made an appearance elsewhere in Canon, and if we listed everybody who ever piloted a given 'Mech type in a canon source then the lists would be very, very long.<br />
::If you read [[BattleTechWiki_talk:Project_BattleMechs#Famous_Pilots|the conversation]] members of the Project BattleMechs team had concerning the addition of the "Notable Pilots" section to the BattleMech articles, you will find that adding the pilots from the TROs was specifically cited as something we did not want to happen unless they were otherwise notable. I would like to stress that one precondition (not the only one) for including a pilot as "notable" on the 'Mech article is that they have their own article on BTW, per that same discussion. While Connor, specifically, is probably notable enough, he needs to have an article written about him that asserts that first. --[[User:Scaletail|Scaletail]] 16:51, 3 March 2009 (PST)<br />
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===InfoBox template broken?===<br />
The infoboxes for 'Mechs and fiction (books, BattelCorps fiction) seem to be broken but there was no recent edit to the templates - anybody know what happened? [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] 10:52, 1 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Nic upgraded the MediaWiki software to 1.15. Good, quick catch, Frabby. Okay, let's all try and identify any other unanticipated (negative) changes that came as a result today and I'll pass those on to Nic. Hopefully, it'll just need some php tweaks and not a rollback. Report those found on this [[BattleTechWiki:Administrators/List|list]]. --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 11:16, 1 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
::Looks like all infoboxes are broken; state units, weapons, customweapons, aerospace fighters, dropships, you name it. So it looks like the software update did something to the way templates work. [[User:Onisuzume|Onisuzume]] 11:53, 1 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
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===Strick-9===<br />
I screwed up again. I don't get or understand how to edit/create here and I messed up the custom<br />
weapons list and can't remove what I did. So, I hope it can be fixed. I'm going to have my son show me how to use this system so, I don't mess it up AGAIN. Sorry for the mess.<br />
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[[User:Sethnlori|Strick-9]] 13:35, 13 June 2009 (PDT)Strick-9[[User:Sethnlori|Strick-9]] 13:35, 13 June 2009 (PDT)<br />
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:No problem. You edited a discussion page and almost anything goes on these.<br />
:I guess, you want to create that PPC-article, so my advice is:<br />
:# Open the same page again via "edit" and copy the source-code for your article (to get the code for the chart).<br />
:# Insert the name of your article in the search-box to the left and "go". (Not standard method, but easiest way.)<br />
:# A page will show up, saying that no article with this title exists, providing a red link to your "PPC something". Click on the link and an edit-page will open.<br />
:# Insert your text and "save page". Voilà: new article.<br />
:In general: Do some training in the "sandbox" (link on the left), before approaching a major task like new articles. --[[User:Detlef|Detlef]] 13:55, 13 June 2009 (PDT)<br />
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::Thank you for the help. When I started playing BattleTech there were no computer games so, I'm a generation behind most of you. LOL. By the way does anyone know if a supercharger and TSM can be used together? If so, what is the rules on that. Thanks for the help and info. --[[User:Sethnlori|Strick-9]] 14:31, 13 June 2009 (PDT)<br />
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:::Detlef wrote some really good guidance there. I was tempted to correct the article's place myself, but you really did most of the hard work already in writing the article and if you follow his steps, you'll learn the whole process. Call for help if you need it, tho, ok? --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 19:57, 13 June 2009 (PDT)<br />
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===Uploading Self-Generated Images===<br />
Hi, I suggested generating Unit TOEs for the Military Commands project, and others suggested I put up an example to demonstrate what I mean. I now have a PNG file, but no idea of how to upload. Can anyone walk me through the procedure, please?<br />
[[User:Alkemita|Alkemita]] 16:11, 25 February 2009 (PST)<br />
:As you have since uploaded and used the Waco Rangers TOE I take it this request is done? If not, please drop me a note. [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] 06:42, 27 February 2009 (PST)<br />
:::Yes, it's done - thanks. [[User:Alkemita|Alkemita]] 09:42, 27 February 2009 (PST)<br />
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===MechFormations===<br />
I thought about making a category called "MechFormations" that lists all brigades, regiments & battalions.<br/><br />
And with that in place I wanted to replace the brigade descriptions from the main military article of every house with a list of links to all the brigade articles of that house & also move the descriptions that some already have to the corresponding brigade articles.<br/><br />
And there again I wanted to add all regiments of that brigade again only with a link so that an article can be made for every regiment.<br/><br />
Problem is:<br/><br />
# Can a user create a category?<br />
# How do I make a template for a brigade info box & regiment info box? Those looks more than complicate to me especially with the help page for creating brigade & regiment articles and with a doc page for that template.<br />
# Furthermore what should be listed in those infoboxes? For brigades I thought of: brigade symbol, name, formed, status & parent formation. And for regiments: regiment symbol, name, nickname, formed, status & parent formation. Anything else?<br />
[[User:BigDuke66|BigDuke66]] 11:36, 20 July 2008 (CDT)<br />
:I was actually thinking about this subject today, so let me give my thoughts. I was thinking of creating different categories for each faction, "AFFS Units", "AFFC Units", "DCMS Units", "Clan Jade Falcon Units", "MAF Units", and so on and so forth. I was considering breaking it down with different categories in the same way that [[:Category:BattleMechs by weight class|BattleMechs are broken down by tonnage]]. For instance, [[:Category:Regular Units]] could take you to [[:Category:CCAF Units]], which takes you to [[:Category:Victoria Commonality Ranger Units]]. Each category along the way would list all of the units therein (a la [[:Category:BattleMechs]], [[:Category:Heavy BattleMechs]], [[:Category:70 ton BattleMechs]]). I think it is still appropriate to leave the descriptions of the brigades that are present on the military organization articles there, but expand upon them in full articles (in the same way that ''[[Handbook: House Steiner]]'' gives some info on them, but ''[[Field Manual: Lyran Alliance]]'' gives them a more complete treatment).<br />
:#Yes, a user can create a category. It works the same way as an article.<br />
:#Use other infoboxes as a model (Perhaps [[Template:InfoBoxMercUnit]] would be a good one to base this off of) and use the "Show Preview" button often.<br />
:#All of your suggestions sound good, except that I'm not sure what you mean by "status". The only thing I can think of to add would be an optional line for "destruction". --[[User:Scaletail|Scaletail]] 18:22, 20 July 2008 (CDT)<br />
::Well "Status" should show what the state of the unit is, active, destroyed, disbanded, deserted etc..<br/><br />
::More Categories sound good but I don't see how much different it is to what we will see in the articles.<br/><br />
::Faction>Capellan Confederation>Capellan Confederation Armed Forces>Victoria Commonality Rangers>Kingston'S Rangers<br/><br />
::Category:Regular Units>Category:CCAF Units>Category:Victoria Commonality Ranger Units>Kingston's Rangers<br/><br />
::Of course those categories would be better then just on big with all formations. I just counted the regiments of the 20 Year Update and came out with 577 and that ist without Brigades and without the Clans. We could do it like the BattleMech category, one big with all of them und some sub categories that are more specific starting with what you have suggested "Category Regular Units". And maybe "Mercenary Units"? What else? --[[User:BigDuke66|BigDuke66]] 10:11, 21 July 2008 (CDT)<br />
:::Actually, the reason I suggested "Regular Units" was because "Units" sounds like it could encompass BattleMechs, vehicles, etc. as they are "units". "Military units" is too broad (although it sounds better to me now), while "House units" is too narrow. I suppose we could integrate Mercenary units to a broader category that includes House, Periphery, and Clan units; but I think that's too much sub-categorization.<br />
:::On another note, when we create sections for the brigades, in addition to having a link to the main article for the brigade, we can have a link to the appropriate category that lists all units within that brigade.<br />
:::I like the idea for "status" now that I understand it... instead of having a separate section for date or destruction, we could just put the appropriate date next the status. By George, I think we might have it! --[[User:Scaletail|Scaletail]] 19:30, 21 July 2008 (CDT)<br />
::::Yes "Military units" sounds good but your right it also sounds to broad, I would expect to see units like Death Commandos or maybe dropship/jumpship fleets under such category too. Maybe "Ground Units"... na, or "Army Units"... na, maybe... look at the main page with the point "Unit Categories" and all the sub-points, what about making in similar.<br />
::::*"Formation Categories"<br />
::::**[[House Formations]]<br />
::::**[[Periphery Formations]]<br />
::::**[[Clan Formations]](Unsure as they don't show a brigade system with related regiments, instead the use similar clusters in different Galaxys, so clan formations would need some extra attention)<br />
::::**[[Mercenary Formations]](That could just be the renamed "Mercenary Units" category)<br />
::::**[[Pirate Formations]](Similar to the "Mercenary Formations")<br />
::::The "House Formation" category shows subcategories like "AFFS Formations", "CAAF Formations" etc., those can show the related brigade/milita/academy articles and subcategories like subcategory "Davion Brigade of Guards", subcategory "Draconis March Militia" and subcategory "Academy & Training Formations" etc., and each of those subcategories could show their related regiments & battalions articles like "Davion Heavy Guards", "Addicks DMM" and "1st NAIS Cadet Cadre" etc..<br />
::::I think I wasn't clear enough about the brigade & regiment articles. What I want to do is to add links in the main military article to brigade/milita etc. articles. Then in these articles there should be some major points covered besides the data in the infobox. I thought about "History", "Officers", "Tactics" and "Composition" and under “Composition” I wanted to list & link all regiments/battalions that are or were part of that brigade/milita etc.. So all together you can go down the ladder till you are down to a regiment article.<br />
::::Now that I read my post again I wonder if we need those categories at all. Their structure is very similar to what the military & brigade level articles will host. So do we really need them?--[[User:BigDuke66|BigDuke66]] 10:06, 22 July 2008 (CDT)<br />
:::::Sure. Things need to be categorized, so we might as well put them in categories that make sense without being unwieldy. With the categories, we don't need to put a dozen links in brigade articles. We need only throw in a link to the category. Of course, that means its another click away, but I think its useful to avoid clutter in the articles themselves. --[[User:Scaletail|Scaletail]] 18:24, 28 July 2008 (CDT)<br />
::::::I see that we now have also a link to the State Units on the main page or was it already there? Seems new to me. Anyway how about another for clan units? I think they are in many aspects far away from states and even further from mercenarys to justify that. BTW where do we put the units from the Bandit Kingdoms & Pirates, ComStar & WoB and Deep Periphery & the not-named-clan?--[[User:BigDuke66|BigDuke66]] 18:52, 22 August 2008 (CDT)<br />
:::::::You're right: it is relatively new. I put it there, since I felt there was a dearth of unit articles and wanted to jumpstart interest in it. However, I hadn't followed thru by reading this thread. I like your idea for a Clan units category (and will add it now). '''A''': And, I think you're also right about the need to represent the other 'factions.' I personally would consider units with Bandit Kingdoms as state ones (such as I do for the [[Brotherhood of Randis]], being a unit of the [[Fiefdom of Randis|Fiefdom]]. However, acknowledged stateless entities such as ComStar and WOB might need to be discussed. Both have held (or presently hold) planets, so I'd prefer to see them under state categories.''' B''': What about all of these being in more specific sub-categories? I cannot imagine all the Great House (plus assorted other lesser Houses) all having their units mixed up together in one broad category (Cat:State Units). It seems to me, that Cat:Marik Units should be a sub-category of Cat:State Units. Discussion? --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 00:04, 23 August 2008 (CDT)<br />
::::::::Sub-categories? Absolutely YES! I was about to ask the same today. A Sub-category for every state in the Category:State Units would help to keep the overview and articles of the brigades(Lyran Guards, Davion Guards, etc.) could link to them directly so you can get a clue of what units are in a specific brigade. --[[User:BigDuke66|BigDuke66]] 10:17, 23 August 2008 (CDT)<br />
:::::::::Ooh, good idea. Cascading categories. I'm not very knowledgeable regarding the various levels of organization, but anyone can create categories, so please...feel free to start those examples. Any ideas, however, for the Main Page namimg scheme above? We have State, Clan & Merc. I don't necessaily want to create Pirates, since there are so few articles that would be built for those, so a category that would incorporate pirates and others would be best. Cat:Misc, maybe? --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 10:37, 23 August 2008 (CDT)<br />
::::::::::Cat:Misc sounds good. Regarding ComStat & WoB I think they would fit here better than in the state category. When I think of state factions I only think of the 5 houses and minor states like Rasalhague, St. Ives, Andurien, Magistracy of Canopus, Outworlds Alliance and Taurian Concordat maybe also the Bandit kingdoms and the smaller Periphery states too but not Comstar & WoB, especially ComStar is present everywhere and much more an Organization then a state. So I think they would fit here best, maybe Chaos March & Arc-Royal Defense Cordon too?--[[User:BigDuke66|BigDuke66]] 11:11, 24 August 2008 (CDT)<br />
:::::::::::New Main Page cat created and added. BigDuke, I think you're probably a bit more qualified than myself for defining what goes where in this case. If you start the standard now with units in each category, then it'll be that much stronger for it. --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 13:52, 24 August 2008 (CDT)<br />
<br />
===Clan Jade Falcon changes===<br />
Excuse me, I don't know if this is the right place to post this, but there seems to be no way to e-mail the admins of this site. I recently edited the Jade Falcon page, correcting some historical innacuracies and general anti-Jade Falcon bias which was present on the page, and I was messaged by the administrators that my posts were unhelpful and I was going to be charged with VANDALISM. I thought that this was a wiki in which everyone was free to contribute, not a "members-only" club in which outsiders are not tolerated. I am extremely upset by this discrimination, and will neither contribute nor endorse this discriminatory site.{{unsigned|66.18.240.88|13:40, 18 March 2008 }}<br />
<br />
:The information that was added was extremely biased towards Clan Jade Falcon, that was why it was removed and you warned that the information you added '''might''' be considered vandalism. The current article can certainly be improved, but "Kerensky, in his hubris, decided that to have his name associated with the word "wolf" would be better for his image, and sided with the '''haughty and unworthy''' Clan Wolf [my emphasis]" is not the way to fix it. Moreover, some information was incorrect, such as the fact that more members of the Clan that Khan Crichell were involved in the downfall of ilKhan Ulric Kerensky (saKhan Chistu trapped him, for Pete's sake). "Clan Jade Falcon was the FIRST clan to allow freebirth to compete for a bloodname" is also completely untrue, as that person was actually Khan Phelan Kell of Clan Wolf.<br />
:The above reasons are why the information you added was deleted, not because of a desire to be exclusive. The warning was given because these edits violated BattleTechWiki policy, and informed you which policy it violated so you could read about it and understand why your edits were reverted. I still encourage you to read [[Policy:Neutral point of view]] so that you can better understand the reasons behind my decision. If, after that, it is still unclear, then please ask and I, or any other admin, will be happy to help you to the best of our ability. --[[User:Scaletail|Scaletail]] 17:44, 18 March 2008 (CDT)<br />
<br />
[[Category:BattleTechWiki|Administrators]]<br />
[[Category:Help|Administrators]]</div>
Xoid
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/index.php?title=BTW:A&diff=55867
BTW:A
2009-07-25T05:01:54Z
<p>Xoid: Shortcut</p>
<hr />
<div>#REDIRECT [[BattleTechWiki:Administrators]]</div>
Xoid
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/index.php?title=User_talk:Xoid&diff=55866
User talk:Xoid
2009-07-25T03:25:11Z
<p>Xoid: /* Okay… I'll bite */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{User:Xoid/nav}}<br />
{{TOCright}}<br />
<br />
== Okay… I'll bite ==<br />
[[Policy:Editing|I'm curious]]. {{emoticon|;)}}--[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 19:20, 19 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
:It's a tale of two &#123;{cite}}s :P<br />
:Check out most of the pages with {{tl|cite}} on it. These are ones that are, for the most part, either imported by or written by Wikipedians. &#123;{cite}} on BTW and &#123;{cite}} on Wikipedia currently work very, very differently and are utterly incompatible. I'm replacing instances of the currently correct usage with &#123;{citation needed}} because it's less work to import pages from Wikipedia than it is to import and have to change dozens of citations each time. --[[User:Xoid|Xoid]] 19:25, 19 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
::I think I got it: [[Hesperus II]] uses <nowiki>{{cite}}</nowiki> the same way we use <nowiki><ref></nowiki>. If I understand it, we'll start using <nowiki>{{citation needed}}</nowiki> needed instead of <nowiki>{{cite}}</nowiki>, and then allow imported WP pages to use <nowiki>{{cite}}</nowiki> the same way we use <nowiki><refs></nowiki>.--[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 21:50, 19 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::I believe they used to use them "semi-interchangeably". Nowadays they actually use the two together, as seen in the pages we have that currently use it (pretty sure I fixed the few that had it used as {{tl|cn}} so any page out of the rest should display correctly now). I still need to clear up the templates a touch, maybe trim out a lot of the crap in, import and refactor their documentation, etc., but that can wait until another day. <br />
:::You can still use &#123;{cn}} if you're lazy. Pretty sure there isn't a commonly used template with that name. --[[User:Xoid|Xoid]] 22:31, 19 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
::::Okay. I just want to be sure your work is properly documented, so that people don't continue to use the wrong one unknowingly. I ''think'' I understand; I just need to view it from the perspective of a new Editor, to be sure.--[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 23:03, 19 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::::Kk, understood. :)<br />
:::::Only you used &#123;{cite}} for its old purpose (as opposed to &#123;{cn}} which is completely unaffected), so I don't think confusion between the two will be a problem. I will get around to properly documenting the current incarnation but not right now — there is too much that needs to be done to clean it up first and I'm not going to produce documentation if it'll become useless within the day. I'll get to work on cleaning it up "when I get around to it", probably some time this afternoon, documentation will follow shortly thereafter. --[[User:Xoid|Xoid]] 23:11, 19 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
::::::No, I wasn't suggesting that you hadn't done so. I was speaking out loud about making sure there was no lingering traces to using the templates incorrectly. That's what I mean about approaching it as a new Editor (as a tasker to me). Just now I'm a little caught up in the drama regarding our troll. More on that privately. --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 23:23, 19 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::::::Contact info is on my page if you need it. --[[User:Xoid|Xoid]] 23:24, 19 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
::::::Point of (probably unnecessary) clarification: I am working under the belief (and was previously referring to) that Help:CUT is properly indicating the use of the {{tl|citation needed}} or {{tl|cn}} templates. --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 02:20, 20 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::::::100% correct. --[[User:Xoid|Xoid]] 08:16, 20 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
::::::Secondary: would you please take a look at my draft of [[Policy:Verifiability#Burden_of_evidence]] and see if those redlinked templates are suitably named for the same role they'd play here on BTW? If they are (and you tell me so), I'll build them here (and -of course- wait for you or Ebakunin to fix 'em). Thanks. --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 02:20, 20 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::::::The various shortcut templates could be rather easily rolled into one template with a bit of ParserFunctions. The other templates seem alright the way that they're named. Feel free to import like crazy.<br />
<br />
:::::::Rev, just promise we don't end up [http://encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/Citation_needed like this (possibly NSFW)], please. No, seriously. Wikipedia is fast becoming a joke with the number of unnecessary &#123;{cn}}s everywhere, and the complete ban on original research is applied to the obscure and obvious alike. A broad "sources" entry at the bottom should be sufficient for someone wanting to know where to read more about the topic in general. I want to know that &#123;{cn}} (and the &#60;ref>s that replace them) will be restricted to things that are either historical, highly suspect (e.g. "Clan Ghost Bear is a misnomer; their totem is actually David Hasselhoff.") or would seem so to someone familiar with BT but not the topic at hand (perhaps something like the Jihad to anyone versed well enough in the rest of BT lore, but deficient with ComStar?). Also fine on articles about things that are divisive amongst fans or various BT related legal debacles. --[[User:Xoid|Xoid]] 08:16, 20 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
::::::::I've seen that same xcvd cartoon before, and though not in-line with the point of the associated ED article, truly believe it hits the nail right on the head (i.e., for political speeches). Thanks for starting my morning off with a chuckle.<br />
::::::::There has been a drive (maybe since your wikibreak), to make the site as factual as possible (or more appropriately, improve the site's reputation for accuracy), with policies (most notably [[Policy:Verifiability]], which I started yesterday) and procedures that lead to an academic perspective when it comes to article writing (see [[Draconis Combine]] and [[Brotherhood of Randis]] as two good examples). My background leads me to support this move, but the side benefit should be a culture where articles become better standardized. I suspect you don't disagree with this concept, however are concerned that every other sentence will have {{tl|cn}} added onto it, thereby actually detracting from the material that is posted (and should be assumed to be factual, unless cited otherwise). That would in turn run counter to our efforts to improve the site's reputation. Have I've stated your position correctly? I definitely see that as a valid concern. As such, I'll address that in the Verifiability policy, with the point that overuse of the templates is something that we seek to avoid (maybe even referencing the very same link you provided). --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 11:35, 20 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::::::::Yup, that's my position exactly. <br />
:::::::::P.S. Sorry for the absence BTW (probably thought I disappeared again, amirite?); I got caught up at home. --[[User:Xoid|Xoid]] 03:25, 25 July 2009 (UTC)</div>
Xoid
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/index.php?title=User_talk:Xoid&diff=55458
User talk:Xoid
2009-07-20T08:16:09Z
<p>Xoid: /* Okay… I'll bite */ Resp.</p>
<hr />
<div>{{User:Xoid/nav}}<br />
{{TOCright}}<br />
<br />
== Okay… I'll bite ==<br />
[[Policy:Editing|I'm curious]]. {{emoticon|;)}}--[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 19:20, 19 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
:It's a tale of two &#123;{cite}}s :P<br />
:Check out most of the pages with {{tl|cite}} on it. These are ones that are, for the most part, either imported by or written by Wikipedians. &#123;{cite}} on BTW and &#123;{cite}} on Wikipedia currently work very, very differently and are utterly incompatible. I'm replacing instances of the currently correct usage with &#123;{citation needed}} because it's less work to import pages from Wikipedia than it is to import and have to change dozens of citations each time. --[[User:Xoid|Xoid]] 19:25, 19 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
::I think I got it: [[Hesperus II]] uses <nowiki>{{cite}}</nowiki> the same way we use <nowiki><ref></nowiki>. If I understand it, we'll start using <nowiki>{{citation needed}}</nowiki> needed instead of <nowiki>{{cite}}</nowiki>, and then allow imported WP pages to use <nowiki>{{cite}}</nowiki> the same way we use <nowiki><refs></nowiki>.--[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 21:50, 19 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::I believe they used to use them "semi-interchangeably". Nowadays they actually use the two together, as seen in the pages we have that currently use it (pretty sure I fixed the few that had it used as {{tl|cn}} so any page out of the rest should display correctly now). I still need to clear up the templates a touch, maybe trim out a lot of the crap in, import and refactor their documentation, etc., but that can wait until another day. <br />
:::You can still use &#123;{cn}} if you're lazy. Pretty sure there isn't a commonly used template with that name. --[[User:Xoid|Xoid]] 22:31, 19 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
::::Okay. I just want to be sure your work is properly documented, so that people don't continue to use the wrong one unknowingly. I ''think'' I understand; I just need to view it from the perspective of a new Editor, to be sure.--[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 23:03, 19 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::::Kk, understood. :)<br />
:::::Only you used &#123;{cite}} for its old purpose (as opposed to &#123;{cn}} which is completely unaffected), so I don't think confusion between the two will be a problem. I will get around to properly documenting the current incarnation but not right now — there is too much that needs to be done to clean it up first and I'm not going to produce documentation if it'll become useless within the day. I'll get to work on cleaning it up "when I get around to it", probably some time this afternoon, documentation will follow shortly thereafter. --[[User:Xoid|Xoid]] 23:11, 19 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
::::::No, I wasn't suggesting that you hadn't done so. I was speaking out loud about making sure there was no lingering traces to using the templates incorrectly. That's what I mean about approaching it as a new Editor (as a tasker to me). Just now I'm a little caught up in the drama regarding our troll. More on that privately. --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 23:23, 19 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::::::Contact info is on my page if you need it. --[[User:Xoid|Xoid]] 23:24, 19 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
::::::Point of (probably unnecessary) clarification: I am working under the belief (and was previously referring to) that Help:CUT is properly indicating the use of the {{tl|citation needed}} or {{tl|cn}} templates. --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 02:20, 20 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::::::100% correct. --[[User:Xoid|Xoid]] 08:16, 20 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
::::::Secondary: would you please take a look at my draft of [[Policy:Verifiability#Burden_of_evidence]] and see if those redlinked templates are suitably named for the same role they'd play here on BTW? If they are (and you tell me so), I'll build them here (and -of course- wait for you or Ebakunin to fix 'em). Thanks. --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 02:20, 20 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::::::The various shortcut templates could be rather easily rolled into one template with a bit of ParserFunctions. The other templates seem alright the way that they're named. Feel free to import like crazy.<br />
<br />
:::::::Rev, just promise we don't end up [http://encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/Citation_needed like this (possibly NSFW)], please. No, seriously. Wikipedia is fast becoming a joke with the number of unnecessary &#123;{cn}}s everywhere, and the complete ban on original research is applied to the obscure and obvious alike. A broad "sources" entry at the bottom should be sufficient for someone wanting to know where to read more about the topic in general. I want to know that &#123;{cn}} (and the &#60;ref>s that replace them) will be restricted to things that are either historical, highly suspect (e.g. "Clan Ghost Bear is a misnomer; their totem is actually David Hasselhoff.") or would seem so to someone familiar with BT but not the topic at hand (perhaps something like the Jihad to anyone versed well enough in the rest of BT lore, but deficient with ComStar?). Also fine on articles about things that are divisive amongst fans or various BT related legal debacles. --[[User:Xoid|Xoid]] 08:16, 20 July 2009 (UTC)</div>
Xoid
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/index.php?title=Help_talk:Italics&diff=55414
Help talk:Italics
2009-07-20T00:15:34Z
<p>Xoid: /* Pre-rollout Policy Discussion */ Add to MoS instead.</p>
<hr />
<div>==Pre-rollout Policy Discussion==<br />
Please start discussing here, if you have any concerns regarding this prospective policy. --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 18:33, 9 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Once the kinks have been worked out just make it part of the Manual of Style. There's no real "policy" in this after all, just stylisation guidelines. --[[User:Xoid|Xoid]] 00:15, 20 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== ProtoMechs ==<br />
<br />
The current version of the policy shows only that BattleMech, DropShips, JumpShips, WarShips and ASF class names are italicized. However, wondering if ProtoMechs should be, as well, I looked in ''[[Combat Equipment]]''. In that book, Protos are italicized, while Battle Armor are not. As a proponent of the [[Policy:Consensus#Bold.2C_Edit.2C_Discuss_.28B-E-D.29|B-E-D]] method of consensus, I'm changing the policy here to match that title.--[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 04:22, 13 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
:[[BattleTechWiki:Project Ground Units|WikiProject Ground Units]] addresses this. --[[User:Scaletail|Scaletail]] 22:57, 13 July 2009 (UTC)</div>
Xoid
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/index.php?title=User_talk:Xoid&diff=55412
User talk:Xoid
2009-07-19T23:24:42Z
<p>Xoid: /* Okay… I'll bite */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{User:Xoid/nav}}<br />
{{TOCright}}<br />
<br />
== Okay… I'll bite ==<br />
[[Policy:Editing|I'm curious]]. {{emoticon|;)}}--[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 19:20, 19 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
:It's a tale of two &#123;{cite}}s :P<br />
:Check out most of the pages with {{tl|cite}} on it. These are ones that are, for the most part, either imported by or written by Wikipedians. &#123;{cite}} on BTW and &#123;{cite}} on Wikipedia currently work very, very differently and are utterly incompatible. I'm replacing instances of the currently correct usage with &#123;{citation needed}} because it's less work to import pages from Wikipedia than it is to import and have to change dozens of citations each time. --[[User:Xoid|Xoid]] 19:25, 19 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
::I think I got it: [[Hesperus II]] uses <nowiki>{{cite}}</nowiki> the same way we use <nowiki><ref></nowiki>. If I understand it, we'll start using <nowiki>{{citation needed}}</nowiki> needed instead of <nowiki>{{cite}}</nowiki>, and then allow imported WP pages to use <nowiki>{{cite}}</nowiki> the same way we use <nowiki><refs></nowiki>.--[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 21:50, 19 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::I believe they used to use them "semi-interchangeably". Nowadays they actually use the two together, as seen in the pages we have that currently use it (pretty sure I fixed the few that had it used as {{tl|cn}} so any page out of the rest should display correctly now). I still need to clear up the templates a touch, maybe trim out a lot of the crap in, import and refactor their documentation, etc., but that can wait until another day. <br />
:::You can still use &#123;{cn}} if you're lazy. Pretty sure there isn't a commonly used template with that name. --[[User:Xoid|Xoid]] 22:31, 19 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
::::Okay. I just want to be sure your work is properly documented, so that people don't continue to use the wrong one unknowingly. I ''think'' I understand; I just need to view it from the perspective of a new Editor, to be sure.--[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 23:03, 19 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::::Kk, understood. :)<br />
:::::Only you used &#123;{cite}} for its old purpose (as opposed to &#123;{cn}} which is completely unaffected), so I don't think confusion between the two will be a problem. I will get around to properly documenting the current incarnation but not right now — there is too much that needs to be done to clean it up first and I'm not going to produce documentation if it'll become useless within the day. I'll get to work on cleaning it up "when I get around to it", probably some time this afternoon, documentation will follow shortly thereafter. --[[User:Xoid|Xoid]] 23:11, 19 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
::::::No, I wasn't suggesting that you hadn't done so. I was speaking out loud about making sure there was no lingering traces to using the templates incorrectly. That's what I mean about approaching it as a new Editor (as a tasker to me). Just now I'm a little caught up in the drama regarding our troll. More on that privately. --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 23:23, 19 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::::::Contact info is on my page if you need it. --[[User:Xoid|Xoid]] 23:24, 19 July 2009 (UTC)</div>
Xoid
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/index.php?title=BattleTechWiki:Masthead&diff=55410
BattleTechWiki:Masthead
2009-07-19T23:22:01Z
<p>Xoid: Refactoring.</p>
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<div>Post in the section '''Admin Help Requests''' to get proper attention to the issue/problem. Please be specific and sign your request (by adding <nowiki> ~~~~ </nowiki> at the end).<br />
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== Current Sarna.net Wiki Administrators ==<br />
* [[User:Nicjansma | NicJansma]] ([[User talk:Nicjansma|Talk]] to me)<br />
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* [[User:Revanche|Revanche]] ([[User talk:Revanche|Talk]] at me)<br />
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* [[User:Xoid|Xoid]] ([[User talk:Xoid|Talk]] to me)<br />
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* [[User:Scaletail|Scaletail]] ([[User talk:Scaletail|Talk]] to me)<br />
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* [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] ([[User talk:Frabby|Talk]] to me)<br />
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* [[User:Ebakunin|Ebakunin]] ([[User talk:Ebakunin|Talk]] to me)<br />
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Auto-updated list found [[Special:Listusers/sysop|here]]<br />
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==Admin Help Requests (Outstanding)==<br />
'''Make your request here (and sign with 4 tildes (<nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>))'''<br />
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===CCG Artist Randy Asplund===<br />
Just as a notice, in return for no objection to the use of his art on BTW, I said I'd provide a link back to Randy Asplund's website on the image pages and [[Randy Asplund]] article. I don't imagine any Editors will have an issue with this arrangement. --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 05:27, 16 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
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===Community 'Forum' Name===<br />
I think its time we had a page where quick questions & answers can be asked, that don't necessarily relate to editing or admin requests. Things like:<br />
*"What was the name of that one non-Mark that became Captain-General in the war against the Sarna Supremacy?" --[[UserDude]]<br />
*"Hey...working on the article for ''Masters and Minions.'' Anyone have the production code for it?" --[[KuritaFan]]<br />
*"So...anyone think LAMs as ground vehicles, like maybe support vehicles, would be cool? I have some killer ideas." --[[LadiesMan217]]<br />
The idea would really be to provide quick answers, not so much conversations (in spite of that subtle last one), which would be directed to the Sarna forums. We'd archive it every quarter or so. This would be something similar to the Research Desk on Wikipedia. The question is: what should it be called? Chatterweb is already taken...ideas?--[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 02:46, 14 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
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===Admin To-Do List===<br />
[[Talk:3053|Locis']] comments got me thinking about how we've been handling policy creation. I know that some policies that need to be written have fallen through the cracks. I would like to suggest that admins update the [[BattleTechWiki:ToDo |To Do List]] with policies that need creating when a discussion reaches consensus with a link back to the talk page in question. I know that policy writing is a pain, but it needs to be done. I'm probably the most guilty party here, but I think if we can get better organized, it will make the process easier. --[[User:Scaletail|Scaletail]] 17:58, 11 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Agreed. I'll start considering needed policies, look around WP for inspiration. Would like to stress, though, that policies are the purview of all Editors, not just Admins. This isn't aimed at Scaletail, at all: every visitor here gets a voice on BTW, and staying silent implies endorsement of the consensus. Readers that haven't edited are just as responsible for the direction of the wiki as the most industrious Editors and Admins. --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 18:35, 11 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
::Okay, I've spent a lot of time reading various Wikipedia policies and found subject areas I think we should address. However, we've got a lot more narrow scope than WP and I'm fairly certain that these policies won't address all of our needs. All Editors (not just admins) are free to suggest ideas (and even to write policy). --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 14:16, 13 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
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===Blocking Spammers===<br />
I've noticed a recent trend where spammers are creating User pages in which to hawk their links. '''Administrators''', please block the IP before deleting the page, so that we can start to cut down on these site attacks.<br />
Steps:<br />
# On [[Special:RecentChanges]], click on '''Block''' first.<br />
# Select a term length (my default is infinite) from '''Expiry'''.<br />
# Select ''Spamming links to external sites'' in the '''Reason''' field.<br />
# Make sure ''Prevent account creation '' and ''Automatically block the last IP address used by this user, and any subsequent IPs they try to edit from '' are checked.<br />
# Click the '''Block this user''' button<br />
# Go back to [[Special:RecentChanges]] and click on the User page.<br />
# Delete it with fervor.<br />
Thanks. --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 13:52, 6 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
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===Watchlist===<br />
Why does the option show all doesn't work? I can only see changes from the last 7 days but the option show all should show me changes from the last 30 days. --[[User:BigDuke66|BigDuke66]] 10:31, 11 August 2008 (CDT)<br />
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:I'm not sure. Nic? --[[User:Scaletail|Scaletail]] 19:06, 20 August 2008 (CDT)<br />
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::The default "max days" is 7 -- but I've bumped this up to 30 days for you. I couldn't verify it was working properly -- please let me know if you still only see 7 days. [[User:Nicjansma|Nicjansma]] 17:40, 1 March 2009 (PST)<br />
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:::Still strange, in my preferences I tried to set the "Days to show in recent changes:" higher then 7 and also set the "Maximum number of days to show in watchlist:" higher but anything higher then 7 will be set to 7 and when I use the "all" option on my watchlist I get about 10 days. --[[User:BigDuke66|BigDuke66]] 07:43, 3 March 2009 (PST)<br />
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== Admin Help Requests (Completed) ==<br />
''Please move help requests here after the request is answered.<br />
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===Banned Vandal attempting to get a new account?===<br />
I think you have a banned vandal attempting to get a new account. But this wiki has no where shown to send the information, and edits don't seem to be leaving any trace that they have been successful. http://www.fixya.com/support/t2634796-blocked_from_editing_www_sarna_net {{unsigned|72.183.119.36}}<br />
:Thanks. Responded to them at Fixya. --[[User:Xoid|Xoid]] 23:00, 19 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
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===Custom 'Mechs in Regular Categories?===<br />
Would like to get a feeling for consensus here: should fanon units be listed under categories (I had presumed) reserved for canon units. For example, [[Gatling]] is added to the BattleMechs | Medium BattleMechs | 45 ton BattleMechs | Free World's League BattleMechs categories. To be honest, I'd shy away from that and lump them under the catchall category of [[:Category:BattleMechsCustom]]. --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 21:35, 10 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
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:According to our [[Policy:Canon]], this wiki expressly tolerates custom/Fanon (fan-made non-canonical information) content under the premise that it is clearly marked as such. It think that, by extension, this requires Fanon articles be kept out of the categories.<br />
:Personally, I even feel strongly against but as you may know I am of the opinion that Fanon content is detrimental to the image of this wiki anyways. (I've been overruled on this issue and I can live with that. BTW still rocks.) [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] 00:14, 11 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
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::As do you, Frabby. Thanks for the guidance. I'll fix this one now and hopefully the established templates for custom units will help prevent this categorization overlap. --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 00:23, 11 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
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===Category:People===<br />
I started added the characters to [[:Category:People]] because it is on the main page when I realized that there is also a [[:Category:PeopleFictional]]. Since I'm sure nobody wants two identical categories, which one should we use? My vote goes to People because it's shorter and easier to find. [[User:Scaletail|Scaletail]] 14:58, 25 March 2007 (CDT)<br />
:: I vote for People as well. [[User:Nicjansma|Nicjansma]] 11:40, 26 March 2007 (CDT)<br />
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===Spam===<br />
:I just recently had to fix the Board Game page from a spammer, IP is 202.212.58.10 in case you want to block or take whatever action you need to. --[[User:CJKeys|CJKeys]] 11:11, 6 November 2006 (CST)<br />
:: Thanks CJKeys. I think I'll try to implement a captcha system for new changes that include outside URLs like wikia.com does. [[User:Nicjansma|Nicjansma]] 15:32, 6 November 2006 (CST)<br />
:::Had to fix it the [[Board Game]] page again, the IP for the spammer this time was 200.31.148.46. I dont know if you can block IPs but I thought I would let you know it happened again. Thanks. --[[User:CJKeys|CJKeys]] 00:24, 8 November 2006 (CST)<br />
::::Also, thanks, CJ. I blocked both IPs for 3 months. --[[User:Revanche|Revanche (admin)]] 01:10, 8 November 2006 (CST)<br />
:::::This looks like a minor annoying problem right now, but I could see it getting worse. Should I spend time investigating captcha for external links in edits? [[User:Nicjansma|Nicjansma]] 21:42, 21 November 2006 (CST)<br />
::::::I had to look the term up, since its the second time you've suggested this. How would you envision it working? Would everytime someone made an edit, they'd have to translate the image? Or, would we limit wiki editing only to registered users, who had to pass this test to register? The latter would be preferable to me. --[[User:Revanche|Revanche (admin)]] 00:17, 22 November 2006 (CST)<br />
:::::::Well I still want to allow anonymous edits. The captcha prompt would only occur if 1) The user was not logged in (not registered) AND 2) they posted an edit with an external link. This would avoid 90% of the 'referral spam' that spambots want. It wouldn't block vandalism, but we're only trying to curb spam-bots with captcha.<br />
::::::::I like it. It is not restrictive for 95% of any edits, as how many times will an unregistered user seek to post links? Is this something you think you can turn on? --[[User:Revanche|Revanche (admin)]] 10:21, 22 November 2006 (CST)<br />
:::::::::There may even be a way to get around needing that. The nastiest stuff is usually the ''div style="display: none"'' and similar crap that adbots love to toss around. You can also try setting a spam blocking RegEx similar to the one Wikipedia uses. It's one of the settings that is heavily documented on either [http://meta.wikimedia.org Meta] or [http://www.mediawiki.org MediaWiki.org]. --[[User:Xoid|Xoid]] 11:49, 22 November 2006 (CST)<br />
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:Some spammer just created this new article [[Board Game/]]. Can an admin please send in a few Stars of Elementals for a housecleaning mission? --[[User:Basara|Basara]] 15:04, 10 February 2007 (CST)<br />
::Went Turtle Bay on his ass. Thanks for the head's up. --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 17:27, 10 February 2007 (CST)<br />
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I've added a captcha system for BTW to combat SPAM. It will be triggered under the following conditions: [[User:Nicjansma|Nicjansma]] 18:39, 14 February 2007 (CST)<br />
# New account creation ''or''<br />
# Editing an article under '''all''' the following circumstances:<br />
::The article contains a ''new'' link to an ''external'' website<br />
::The user is not logged in<br />
::The external link is ''not'' to wikipedia.org or mediawiki.org<br />
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I hope this will be agreeable and adequate. Logged in users will never see the captcha, nor will anonymous users see it unless they post an external link. [[User:Nicjansma|Nicjansma]] 18:39, 14 February 2007 (CST)<br />
:Thank you! It was starting to get bad in the last few days. --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 19:21, 14 February 2007 (CST)<br />
::Bad? This was nothing. When you are reverting five adbots, all of which are active at the same time, while you're on your own, and all of them use a myriad of proxies '''and''' sign up under new usernames… these bots haven't even started the long road to being annoying… they're not even hiding their garbage with non-displaying &lt;div&gt;s. --[[User:Xoid|Xoid]] 00:36, 17 February 2007 (CST)<br />
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New funny guy to clean up after, article is [[Unseen]]. [[User:CJKeys|CJKeys]] 11:51, 28 February 2007 (CST)<br />
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===Copyright Infringement===<br />
Greetings. I have recently become involved in contributing to BattleTech through the Wikipedia end. I submitted one article over there, "[[Chaos March]]." I came over here, only to find that my article had been copied verbatim. By itself, this is fine, because I know Wikipedia articles are public-domain, however no credit was given on the part of the person who 'ported the article to MechWiki. I would appreciate it that, for all articles taken from Wikipedia, credit be given to the original author and/or a link be provided to the original article (as provided in Wikipedia's copyright, which can be found here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Copyrights). Since the only article of mine in question I have found is "Chaos March," that is all I am concerned with, however, I am sure the other authors from Wikipedia would appreciate it if you gave them the same consideration. {{unsigned|4.234.144.246}}<br />
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:Great. Just. Great. ''*sigh*''. Alright; damage control. Nic: can you tell me exactly which pages were auto-generated? I'll run kdiff against a list of all articles with your list of generated articles so we know which ones to exclude from our inquisitorial purge. Revanche: a list of all articles you've imported would be appreciated.<br />
:Note that I could go through the 'Mechs and see if I can find any parts that are copied verbatim, though for obvious reasons that would be a PWOT (I know everything I've submitted is my own work, Daniel's 'articles' are next to non-existent and its rather obvious from CJ's fractured English that he wrote his articles himself (no offense intended CJ)). From there we've got two options here; nuke the lot and start over, or get cracking on providing appropriate licensing information. For obvious reasons I'd prefer the latter, but if you're antsy about getting sued go for the former. --[[User:Xoid|Xoid]] 13:13, 13 December 2006 (CST)<br />
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::My apologies for not signing up and signing earlier. My bleary eyes couldn't find the "create an account," button, even though it's in the same place as Wikipedia's. Apologies are certainly accepted. Lord knows I've made mistakes in the past. I'm not going to sue, I was just upset at not being credited for my work. I think this project is a great idea that can contribute a lot to the BattleTech community. Moreover, I have trolled on sarna.net for around a decade, and I would do nothing that might harm it. I think I have somewhat of an idea of at least some pages that were 'ported over and, if you all don't mind, I'll assist in linking them back to Wikipedia. [[User:Scaletail|Scaletail]] 21:17, 13 December 2006 (CST)<br />
:::Sure, any assistance is appreciated. I wasn't worried about you per se, I'm worried about the 'we'll sue your pants off' type; we all know they exist and it's better to be safe than sorry. Once upon a time we ran into legal troubles at another wiki I work on. I do not want a repeat here. I hope that explains my somewhat panicked reaction. --[[User:Xoid|Xoid]] 00:01, 14 December 2006 (CST)<br />
::::I'm assuming your reffering to the name change of a group on UD?--[[User:The General|The General]]<sup>[[User_talk:The_General|T]]</sup> 20:33, 14 December 2006 (CST)<br />
:::::Yup, that's the one. --[[User:Xoid|Xoid]] 02:04, 15 December 2006 (CST)<br />
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:::Scaletail, any assistance you could give us in this matter, such as pointing out articles that may be infringing would be much appreciated. We are dedicated to making this wiki legit, as well as not upsetting others who have contributed to BattleTech :) [[User:Nicjansma|Nicjansma]] 13:35, 14 December 2006 (CST)<br />
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:: I apologize, 4.234.144.246. I had not realized that article was copied verbatim.<br />
:: ''Most'' of the 3,000 pages here are autogenerated (Planets, etc). We can use DynamicPageList (DPL) to get articles not in categories we've autogenerated and or created (mech articles).. try [[BattleTechWiki:SuspectPages]]. We can use that page list to review articles to see if they've been copied. We should also setup a template to link back to Wikipedia for articles that have been copied to give credit. [[User:Nicjansma|Nicjansma]] 16:46, 13 December 2006 (CST)<br />
:::Okay, guys: things are well-in-hand already, as long as we have wikicitizens helping the whole community with the procedures already in place. First of all, efforts have already been initiated to deal with this via the <nowiki>{{wikipedia}}</nowiki> tag. As 'ported articles are rediscovered, they can be linked back there. Back then, when I did much of the importing, I didn't have actual admin priviledges to do so, so it had to be exactly as it was seen, a cut & paste from wiki. The intent was clear: a different audience was being addressed. Where Wikipedia reaches out with encyclopedic info for the world that 'knows nothing' and wants to be educated on a subject, [[BTW]] is a source for fans/players of BattleTech who would not necissarily beturning to Wikipedia for source information. I 'needed' to do something quickly to show the relevance of BTW to people dropping by to check it out and I was also trying to keep the BattleTech wikiers from being fragmented between two BT-centric wikis (the other being the [http://battletech.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page MechWikia]).<br />
:::Since then, I have alternated between using the import function granted to admins and/or stating that the article was imported in the initial summary line. There was no intent to claim ownership of the articles written, and that's the purpose of the <nowiki>{{wikipedia}}</nowiki> tag. (Point-in-fact, similar work is supposed to be pointing back to the same article over here from Wikipedia, by contribs over there.) Now, I'm not going to go back thru my contribs and hit each one up, as I'm close enough to calling a wikibreak as it is. However, as is true with every other article here, each is a work in progress and no one person will ever be able to claim "that's my article" if the wiki is successful (i.e. many editors). The [[Help:Contents|Help]] page (and [[Help:Tags]] specifically) is very clear one how things are done here at BTW and all someone has to do is paste that tag on a page as it is re-discovered, and they'll be able to instantly see who the primary contributors of the article's history are over there.<br />
:::No offense was intended nor expected, as wikipedia works under the same 'no-ownership' policy. I understand that Scaletail does feel pride in writing a well-crafted article, and my intent was not to claim writing ability (where none exists, frankly). The article, however, has served an important article ''here'' by adding legitimacy and important information for the player base. I'd reccommend Scaletail make some minor alteration to the BTW version of the article (while its still young) with a summary note as coming from a primary Wikipedia contributor of the article. And also, feel pride that it has transcended from being an introductory peice for non-BTers, to a base article for a dedicated source of BT information.<br />
:::I, myself, am pretty much done with importing articles (or even editing the ones here) from Wikipedia, as there are so projects that I'd rather work on and the core material is completed. However, as Wikipedia has plenty of more material over there that really needs to be over here, importing by the cross-decking community is not a done-deal. If someone wants to address a policy page to this subject, please feel free. I do want to state to Nic, however, we don't need to be apologizing for the importing of articles from Wkipedia. Its open-source material and we already are trying to avoid the whole copyright dodge ball, as it is. We don't need to make it any harder for the few of us currently building this site. An apology for improper attribution to Wikipedia as the source is understandable and is being addressed with the cross-deck tag project. --[[User:Revanche|Revanche (admin)]] 11:50, 17 December 2006 (CST)<br />
:: Xoid, no offense taken. I was always a thespian, not a wordsmith and my grades in the fine arts (drama, chorus, etc.) vs English in high school would bear that out. As for my articles each of them are an original work. I will admit I have some articles that have sister articles on mechwikia but that is because I started there and when I came here I brought them with me. I woudl hope to hell I dont have to give myself credit for my own work just because it is in two places. --[[User:CJKeys|CJKeys]] 06:06, 15 December 2006 (CST)<br />
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===Wikilinks as non-case & Mercenaries category===<br />
Two things. First, is it possible to make wikilinks non-case sensitive, or do we have to set up redirects? So many things in BattleTech have an extra capitalized letter in the middle, it's often hard to get it right. Second, would it be possible to create a "merecenaries" category? That way all those merc units can have their own category, since they're really not factions all on their own. [[User:Scaletail|Scaletail]] 22:28, 26 December 2006 (CST)<br />
:Ugh...I know what you mean (regarding all of those midword capitalizations). I'm gonna leave the response for this one to [[user:Xoid|Xoid]].<br />
:As for a Mercenaries category, I think that's a great idea. Specifically, however, are you referring to the [[Main Page]], under the Factions bullet? --[[User:Revanche|Revanche (admin)]] 10:10, 30 December 2006 (CST)<br />
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::From what I've read? There's no practical way for MediaWiki to implement it without causing severe interoperability problems with foreign language versions, more processing, etc., etc., you can find specifics at [http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Case_sensitivity meta's page on case sensitivity].<br />
::I will say this though: I prefer it this way. By making sure that [[SRM-6]], [[SRM 6]] and [[srm 6]] are all different? It allows me to hunt down style inconsistencies in articles and clean them up, making for a more unified feel to the BattleTech Wiki. --[[User:Xoid|Xoid]] 05:39, 27 January 2007 (CST)<br />
:::Sorry about the delayed response. I had forgotten I put this here.... I requested a category before I opened up the section on the main page, but I would envision it as two different things, though I'm not sure if the redundancy is necessary. While I'm here, can I make a request for a "people" category. Since it is on the left-hand toolbar, it would make sense to have a category for it. [[User:Scaletail|Scaletail]] 12:07, 26 February 2007 (CST)<br />
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===Weapons, Character Pages===<br />
I have two questions. First off, if a character in BattleTech is already in the [[List of BattleTech Characters|"BattleTech characters list"]], should redirect pages be made so people get pointed straight to that location? I was thinking you would just use the context indicator so it would go straight to that person, but I thought I'd ask because you may decide to give major characters (like Sun-Tzu Liao) their own articles.<br />
:I'd actually prefer we split up [[List of BattleTech Characters|"BattleTech characters list"]] and make pages for all of the characters in there. --[[User:Nicjansma|Nicjansma]] 16:14, 7 January 2007 (CST)<br />
::Agreed. Most people are going to go for specific names, or type them in directly. Apart from being neater, and circumventing various technical limitations (both server- and client-side), it'll reduce the amount of bandwidth used on outbound traffic. --[[User:Xoid|Xoid]] 05:54, 27 January 2007 (CST)<br />
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Secondly, shouldn't the weapons articles have more information than just where the weapon is manufactured? Isn't just having only where its made kind of odd? I was wondering for two reasons: 1) starting to put summaries on '''ALL''' the weapons pages would make a huge difference, and I wasn't sure if doing that would be against the BTW beliefs on the layout of said weps-articles. 2) If someone who knew very little about BattleTech wanted to find out more, here would be a great start. However, if they try to understand how a PPC or Gauss Rifle works, they would ahve to look at 'Mechs articles to (hopefully) find out.<br />
:Yes, we do want to get more data for the weapons besides just their locations of manufacture. However, when I started this wiki I pre-generated lots of pages, including using all of the manufacturing data I had available. Since some of these weapons haven't been filled with the other stats and fluff yet, all that is in them is their manuf data. --[[User:Nicjansma|Nicjansma]] 16:14, 7 January 2007 (CST)<br />
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<br />
Also, you guys should mention in one of the 'good-formatting' sections that people making new articles should see if they are spelling the linked weapons correctly. Many of the weapons listed on the Wanted Page are because a lot of people didn't use hyphens. Just saying. --[[User:~Malithion~|~Malithion~]] 13:54, 7 January 2007 (CST)<br />
:I also agree with this, however, creating redirects for simple spelling differences is easy as well. We'll never get everyone agreeing on a spelling for all items, and new people won't know about a policy like that either. It's easier, in the end, to do catch-all redirects so people get to the pages they want. --[[User:Nicjansma|Nicjansma]] 16:14, 7 January 2007 (CST)<br />
<br />
:I believe that the names of the actual pages should be standardised, but there should still be redirects from common alterations (e.g., since [[SRM-6]] is the most prevalent 'version' so far, it would be the primary page and 'acceptable variations' would redirect to it). Ease-of-use, and a unified feel. --[[User:Xoid|Xoid]] 05:54, 27 January 2007 (CST)<br />
<br />
<br />
Also, now that we have a [[heat sink]] article, should we just redirect to that from [[double heat sink]]? I can't think of many differences between them that warrant two articles but, hey, that's just me.<br />
Additionally, I noticed that there ''is'' a weapons template already set up (like the BattleMech box). I was wondering if any of you guys might have orginal BT data on the weps, or if its the same as the video-games. 'Cuz that's all the data I have. --[[User:~Malithion~|~Malithion~]] 18:34, 7 January 2007 (CST)<br />
:Canon data (from the board game) is what is being used. The video games tend to vary a lot (especially if you start reporting what their statistics ''actually are'', instead of ''what they say they are''). As far as I'm concerned, I believe specific pages (e.g., '[[Medium Laser]]', '[[Large Laser]]', etc.) should exist, with either relevant text be transcluded or linked to from beefy articles on the 'overall' aspect of a given technology (e.g., '[[lasers]]'). Same thing with heatsinks, etc., etc. Nic and Revanche may have other ideas though. --[[User:Xoid|Xoid]] 05:54, 27 January 2007 (CST)<br />
::No, I agree with you that the board game is the origination point for all data. Everything else can be referenced, but generally starting off from the article on the board game version of the item in question. --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 23:15, 7 February 2007 (CST)<br />
<br />
I was curious as to whether or not we would honor labnames on this wiki. It's just a minor edit, but I was looking through the Character pages and I noticed that [[Peri]] was under the "P" section. I recall the scientist caste of the Clans being a bit more daring about the use of surnames, and adopt what they call 'labnames', surnames taken from doctors throughout history. In '[[Freebirth]]', Twilight of the Clans Book Four, she has adopted the labname Watson. Just a simple question. Thanks for your time.<br />
[[User:Jacen Pryde|Jacen Pryde]] 20:10, 10 September 2008 (CDT)<br />
<br />
:Since they're not official, I would say "no," though it should be included in the article. --[[User:Scaletail|Scaletail]] 21:31, 10 September 2008 (CDT)<br />
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<br />
=== Drive-by deletes? ===<br />
There's been 4 articles in the last day that have had 2/3 of their article deleted by random IPs. Is this a form of vandalism? [[User:Nicjansma|Nicjansma]] 12:50, 12 April 2007 (CDT)<br />
<br />
:It certainly sounds like it could be. What were the pages? [[User:Scaletail|Scaletail]] 18:26, 13 April 2007 (CDT)<br />
<br />
::This has obviously been happening a lot - I've reverted probably 20 pages in the past couple of weeks with this problem. It seems odd as it's not an adbot and there doesn't seem to be any real rationale beyond just being annoying. [[User:Bdevoe|Bdevoe]]<br />
<br />
:::I haven't seen this recently -- very strange. [[User:Nicjansma|Nicjansma]] 16:08, 2 December 2007 (CST)<br />
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<br />
===Plageurism===<br />
On the [[Thanatos]] and [[Lao Hu]] entries I had to delete the text from the articles due to the fact they were directly plageurized from another source by their original author. [[User:CJKeys|CJKeys]] 13:28, 17 May 2007 (CDT)<br />
<br />
<br />
===Recent Spam===<br />
What can we do about this recent spam? It appears that bots are pre-pending articles with special keywords they will later search for so they know they can edit that page. Which probably won't work because we don't allow anonymous users to post external URLs. What do other wiki's do about this? [[User:Nicjansma|Nicjansma]] 22:18, 10 October 2007 (CDT)<br />
<br />
:While it's not something I wanted to do, how about banning all IP edits? I don't know how other places handle this, but I don't think asking people to register to edit is too much. We will miss a few here a there, I would imagine, but if it stops this vandalism, I'm all for it. We could also look at it as a temporary measure until we come up with something better. [[User:Scaletail|Scaletail]] 10:51, 16 October 2007 (CDT)<br />
<br />
::Better idea. How about changing the already-in-place captcha parameters to include all non-registered editors? [[User:Scaletail|Scaletail]] 10:45, 18 October 2007 (CDT)<br />
<br />
::I'm opposed to this. Vandalism-by-bot will continue, with or without blocking anonymous edits. The only thing that blocking anonymous edits does is tend to cause problems; you get a flood of user accounts taking up space in the MySQL database -- making location of legitimate registered users more difficult (we are hoping we'll eventually get enough editors that [[Special:Listusers]] might eventually become a necessity, right?). Blocking anonymous edits also tends to scare off those who make once-off typo fixes. They may not contribute much, but sometimes they come back. I know that's how it was with me and Wikipedia. If I had to register an account just to fix a typo I'd never have bothered.<br />
::You'll also get the odd disgruntled user who'll make an account at BugMeNot to get around such mandatory registration, and you'll then be forced to fight a war against otherwise legitimate users. (Since there'll be no way to verify that HelpfulUser7 is always going to be the same person -- he may be a vandal one day and useful another.) Better to avoid that kettle of fish altogether, methinks. I don't particularly like your newer idea either. CAPTCHAs are seldom perfect and they are a burden on legitimate users. Considering that almost every legitimate user is registered though, it's a fine interim solution. --[[User:Xoid|Xoid]] 23:56, 22 October 2007 (CDT)<br />
<br />
:::I agree with you in that I don't particularly like either of my suggestions, either (for much the same reasons), but I also don't see anybody else suggesting anything. I have no doubt that if there was a good, simple solution it would have already been implemented. I had meant for the CAPTCHA suggestion to be temporary, as I (perhaps incorrectly) assumed that it was something that could be done fairly easily while a more permanent solution is sought. [[User:Scaletail|Scaletail]] 17:31, 23 October 2007 (CDT)<br />
::::There's an extension that allows for this. [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:ConfirmEdit ConfirmEdit]. Permanent solutions are, in my opinion, impossible. The various botnets responsible for this stupidity consist of numerous infected PCs, many with dynamic IP addresses. If there is a spate of vandalism from a specific IP address or range, we'll block it. Apart from that? The most that can be done is to minimise harm and remain vigilant. The scumbags responsible for these botnets aren't going to close-up shop any time soon. --[[User:Xoid|Xoid]] 05:19, 24 October 2007 (CDT)<br />
<br />
:::::I guess it's just a little frustrating for those of us who are patrolling for it. So far, [[User:Kittle|Kittle]], [[User:Scaletail|Scaletail]], and I have been doing it almost constantly and at the cost of other real work. The temp-bans seem to be having some kind of impact as I only needed to edit about 5 articles this time instead of the normal 10-20. I have found that we are missing some of the vandalism, though, as I occasionally find an article that's been recently vandalized and it has some remnant of a previous attack. I don't know that there's much more that we can do, but it does make the whole experience less than satisfying. [[User:Bdevoe|Bdevoe]] 15:48, 25 October 2007 (CDT)<br />
<br />
::::::It definitely sucks, I agree. I'll try to remain on IM (check my [[User:Xoid|user page]] for communication avenues) so you can nudge me if you need an admin to ban someone/thing. I'm seriously considering asking Nic to bestow someone with SysOp status purely so it's possible to provide better ban hammer coverage over the day. I know Scaletail the best and would recommend him, but I've been out of the loop for too long and it'd be unfair to other editors to simply assume Scaletail is the best suited to the job. --[[User:Xoid|Xoid]] 01:01, 26 October 2007 (CDT)<br />
<br />
:::::::With great power comes great responsibility. [[User:Scaletail|Scaletail]] 20:31, 27 October 2007 (CDT)<br />
<br />
::::::::Can articles be protected? Some articles on WP are frequent targets of vandalism (like when Stephen Colbert tells people to), so the page in question can be protected from edits by all but an admin (or whatever the WP equivalent is). Can we do the same here with some of the most frequent targets? [[User:Scaletail|Scaletail]] 19:14, 21 November 2007 (CST)<br />
<br />
:::::::::Unfortunately, the articles hit seem too random to be able to protect any. I've found another extension, [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:CommentSpammer CommentSpammer] that seems to address our very problem. However, it requires MediaWiki v1.12, which isn't officially released yet (we're on 1.11). I'd rather wait until v1.12 is officially released, then I'll add this extension.<br />
:::::::::I also agree with Xoid that we could use another SysOp -- Scaletail, I think you're a great fit, as you've contributed a ton to this wiki. [[User:Nicjansma|Nicjansma]] 16:08, 2 December 2007 (CST)<br />
:::::::::: After months of wasting time reverting these 'gibberish' edits from spammers/vandalizers (having personally reverted 300+ gibberish edits so far), I'm leaning towards enabling the CAPTCHA for all anonymous edits. I know this will cause legit anonymous users a small bit of hassle, but we're still not requiring them to register and it should stop all this vandalism. Any opposition? [[User:Nicjansma|Nicjansma]] 01:19, 27 December 2007 (CST)<br />
:::::::::::Not from me. --[[User:Scaletail|Scaletail]] 07:06, 27 December 2007 (CST)<br />
::::::::::::Nor I. I would welcome it, honestly. It would actually allow us to get back to some real work. ;) [[User:Bdevoe|Bdevoe]] 08:15, 27 December 2007 (CST)<br />
:::::::::::: I have made the change. [[User:Nicjansma|Nicjansma]] 10:02, 27 December 2007 (CST)<br />
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<br />
===Main Page Sidebar Problem===<br />
Is it just me or does the sidebar get pushed far down whenever the BTW icon or Home links are selected? --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 10:15, 9 December 2007 (CST)<br />
:Just you. --[[User:Scaletail|Scaletail]] 11:47, 9 December 2007 (CST)<br />
::Seriously? That sucks. I get it on IE at home and Netscape on my ship. I wonder what could be causing it. --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 12:18, 9 December 2007 (CST)<br />
:::Gross, I see that too. I'll take a look. [[User:Nicjansma|Nicjansma]] 12:28, 9 December 2007 (CST)<br />
::::There was a missing &lt;/div&gt; on the mainpage -- seems like fixing it fixed the problem. Let me know if not. [[User:Nicjansma|Nicjansma]] 13:07, 9 December 2007 (CST)<br />
<br />
<br />
===Uploading Program files===<br />
How can I upload program files for others to download? I've tried the "upload File" link, but is this only for images? Please Help :o)<br />
[[User:Clemmensen|Clemmensen]] 04:35, 20 August 2007 (CDT)<br />
: The [[Special:Upload | Upload File]] link is only for images. For other files, please email me (nic [at] nicj [dot] net) with what you want to share and I can upload it to the [http://www.sarna.net/files file archive]. [[User:Nicjansma|Nicjansma]] 16:08, 2 December 2007 (CST)<br />
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<br />
===CCG Cards===<br />
I noticed that the mission cards from the CCG section have no text in the text box. The main text shows up fine when I go into edit mode, but not on the page itself. I was checking out the Death from Above card and saw it. Just thought I'd point it out. [[User:Haruspex|Haruspex]] 15:13, 8 February 2008 (CST)<br />
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:Great catch! I fixed the template (it lacked the "Text" parameter), so all should be good now. --[[User:Scaletail|Scaletail]] 08:01, 9 February 2008 (CST)<br />
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<br />
===Timeline===<br />
The 2796 link for Minoru Kurita points to the Minoru who would late become part of the Nova Cats can an addional page be set up for the Elder Minoru. Thanks<br />
[[User:Ursusmajor77|Ursusmajor77]] 21:07, 22 July 2008 (CDT)<br />
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:Fixed. --[[User:Scaletail|Scaletail]] 19:06, 20 August 2008 (CDT)<br />
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<br />
===Years===<br />
I have decided I have no real purpose in life, and give the years a consistent format. What tag do I use if I am unsure if the data included is accurate?<br />
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/2016 is my basic template idea {{unsigned|Moosegod|20:31, 19 August 2008}}<br />
<br />
:"<nowiki>{{Verify}}</nowiki>" would be the one I would use. --[[User:Scaletail|Scaletail]] 19:06, 20 August 2008 (CDT)<br />
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<br />
===Notable Pilots===<br />
Hi there, I've been going through some of the mech profiles. They look like most of them are done. I was wondering if it cool for me to add notable pilots that are both published in past TROs (original 3025 example) and from the novels. Would this be acceptable? I would be listing page, book, etc. where these characters profiles are listed. I am uncertain however, how far it be allowed. Example: Pilot of a Archer from TRO Notable Piltos. That can't be put in word for word, but apprievated version what is written. Example 2: Is duable to list pilot such as Conner Rhys-Monroe, a antagonist character whom is Rifleman RFL-8D in novel Sword of Sedition & Fortress Republic. Like notable pilots, be short listing for this character. Would this be allowable? Thank you. -- [[User:Wrangler|Wrangler]] 14:24, 3 March 2009 (PST)<br />
:You can add articles for the pilots. In fact, it would be great if you did that. And please do add as many references as you can, and as precisely as you can. I have done so myself for two characters that were notable pilots in TRO3025 and re-appeared in [[Starterbook: Sword and Dragon]]. Check out [[Terry Ford]] and [[Melinda Carlyle]] for examples. In fact, I suggest you use these articles as blueprints for your character articles on people mentioned as "notable pilots".<br />
:I would not, on the other hand, add them as notable pilots in the entries of the respective 'Mechs, in accordance with our [[:Policy:Notability]]. The reason is that they are not actually notable, but virtual nobodies in most cases. Very few of these "notable" pilots have ever made an appearance elsewhere in Canon, and if we listed everybody who ever piloted a given 'Mech type in a canon source then the lists would be very, very long.<br />
::If you read [[BattleTechWiki_talk:Project_BattleMechs#Famous_Pilots|the conversation]] members of the Project BattleMechs team had concerning the addition of the "Notable Pilots" section to the BattleMech articles, you will find that adding the pilots from the TROs was specifically cited as something we did not want to happen unless they were otherwise notable. I would like to stress that one precondition (not the only one) for including a pilot as "notable" on the 'Mech article is that they have their own article on BTW, per that same discussion. While Connor, specifically, is probably notable enough, he needs to have an article written about him that asserts that first. --[[User:Scaletail|Scaletail]] 16:51, 3 March 2009 (PST)<br />
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<br />
===InfoBox template broken?===<br />
The infoboxes for 'Mechs and fiction (books, BattelCorps fiction) seem to be broken but there was no recent edit to the templates - anybody know what happened? [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] 10:52, 1 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Nic upgraded the MediaWiki software to 1.15. Good, quick catch, Frabby. Okay, let's all try and identify any other unanticipated (negative) changes that came as a result today and I'll pass those on to Nic. Hopefully, it'll just need some php tweaks and not a rollback. Report those found on this [[BattleTechWiki:Administrators/List|list]]. --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 11:16, 1 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
::Looks like all infoboxes are broken; state units, weapons, customweapons, aerospace fighters, dropships, you name it. So it looks like the software update did something to the way templates work. [[User:Onisuzume|Onisuzume]] 11:53, 1 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
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<br />
===Strick-9===<br />
I screwed up again. I don't get or understand how to edit/create here and I messed up the custom<br />
weapons list and can't remove what I did. So, I hope it can be fixed. I'm going to have my son show me how to use this system so, I don't mess it up AGAIN. Sorry for the mess.<br />
<br />
[[User:Sethnlori|Strick-9]] 13:35, 13 June 2009 (PDT)Strick-9[[User:Sethnlori|Strick-9]] 13:35, 13 June 2009 (PDT)<br />
<br />
:No problem. You edited a discussion page and almost anything goes on these.<br />
:I guess, you want to create that PPC-article, so my advice is:<br />
:# Open the same page again via "edit" and copy the source-code for your article (to get the code for the chart).<br />
:# Insert the name of your article in the search-box to the left and "go". (Not standard method, but easiest way.)<br />
:# A page will show up, saying that no article with this title exists, providing a red link to your "PPC something". Click on the link and an edit-page will open.<br />
:# Insert your text and "save page". Voilà: new article.<br />
:In general: Do some training in the "sandbox" (link on the left), before approaching a major task like new articles. --[[User:Detlef|Detlef]] 13:55, 13 June 2009 (PDT)<br />
<br />
::Thank you for the help. When I started playing BattleTech there were no computer games so, I'm a generation behind most of you. LOL. By the way does anyone know if a supercharger and TSM can be used together? If so, what is the rules on that. Thanks for the help and info. --[[User:Sethnlori|Strick-9]] 14:31, 13 June 2009 (PDT)<br />
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:::Detlef wrote some really good guidance there. I was tempted to correct the article's place myself, but you really did most of the hard work already in writing the article and if you follow his steps, you'll learn the whole process. Call for help if you need it, tho, ok? --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 19:57, 13 June 2009 (PDT)<br />
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===Uploading Self-Generated Images===<br />
Hi, I suggested generating Unit TOEs for the Military Commands project, and others suggested I put up an example to demonstrate what I mean. I now have a PNG file, but no idea of how to upload. Can anyone walk me through the procedure, please?<br />
[[User:Alkemita|Alkemita]] 16:11, 25 February 2009 (PST)<br />
:As you have since uploaded and used the Waco Rangers TOE I take it this request is done? If not, please drop me a note. [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] 06:42, 27 February 2009 (PST)<br />
:::Yes, it's done - thanks. [[User:Alkemita|Alkemita]] 09:42, 27 February 2009 (PST)<br />
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===MechFormations===<br />
I thought about making a category called "MechFormations" that lists all brigades, regiments & battalions.<br/><br />
And with that in place I wanted to replace the brigade descriptions from the main military article of every house with a list of links to all the brigade articles of that house & also move the descriptions that some already have to the corresponding brigade articles.<br/><br />
And there again I wanted to add all regiments of that brigade again only with a link so that an article can be made for every regiment.<br/><br />
Problem is:<br/><br />
# Can a user create a category?<br />
# How do I make a template for a brigade info box & regiment info box? Those looks more than complicate to me especially with the help page for creating brigade & regiment articles and with a doc page for that template.<br />
# Furthermore what should be listed in those infoboxes? For brigades I thought of: brigade symbol, name, formed, status & parent formation. And for regiments: regiment symbol, name, nickname, formed, status & parent formation. Anything else?<br />
[[User:BigDuke66|BigDuke66]] 11:36, 20 July 2008 (CDT)<br />
:I was actually thinking about this subject today, so let me give my thoughts. I was thinking of creating different categories for each faction, "AFFS Units", "AFFC Units", "DCMS Units", "Clan Jade Falcon Units", "MAF Units", and so on and so forth. I was considering breaking it down with different categories in the same way that [[:Category:BattleMechs by weight class|BattleMechs are broken down by tonnage]]. For instance, [[:Category:Regular Units]] could take you to [[:Category:CCAF Units]], which takes you to [[:Category:Victoria Commonality Ranger Units]]. Each category along the way would list all of the units therein (a la [[:Category:BattleMechs]], [[:Category:Heavy BattleMechs]], [[:Category:70 ton BattleMechs]]). I think it is still appropriate to leave the descriptions of the brigades that are present on the military organization articles there, but expand upon them in full articles (in the same way that ''[[Handbook: House Steiner]]'' gives some info on them, but ''[[Field Manual: Lyran Alliance]]'' gives them a more complete treatment).<br />
:#Yes, a user can create a category. It works the same way as an article.<br />
:#Use other infoboxes as a model (Perhaps [[Template:InfoBoxMercUnit]] would be a good one to base this off of) and use the "Show Preview" button often.<br />
:#All of your suggestions sound good, except that I'm not sure what you mean by "status". The only thing I can think of to add would be an optional line for "destruction". --[[User:Scaletail|Scaletail]] 18:22, 20 July 2008 (CDT)<br />
::Well "Status" should show what the state of the unit is, active, destroyed, disbanded, deserted etc..<br/><br />
::More Categories sound good but I don't see how much different it is to what we will see in the articles.<br/><br />
::Faction>Capellan Confederation>Capellan Confederation Armed Forces>Victoria Commonality Rangers>Kingston'S Rangers<br/><br />
::Category:Regular Units>Category:CCAF Units>Category:Victoria Commonality Ranger Units>Kingston's Rangers<br/><br />
::Of course those categories would be better then just on big with all formations. I just counted the regiments of the 20 Year Update and came out with 577 and that ist without Brigades and without the Clans. We could do it like the BattleMech category, one big with all of them und some sub categories that are more specific starting with what you have suggested "Category Regular Units". And maybe "Mercenary Units"? What else? --[[User:BigDuke66|BigDuke66]] 10:11, 21 July 2008 (CDT)<br />
:::Actually, the reason I suggested "Regular Units" was because "Units" sounds like it could encompass BattleMechs, vehicles, etc. as they are "units". "Military units" is too broad (although it sounds better to me now), while "House units" is too narrow. I suppose we could integrate Mercenary units to a broader category that includes House, Periphery, and Clan units; but I think that's too much sub-categorization.<br />
:::On another note, when we create sections for the brigades, in addition to having a link to the main article for the brigade, we can have a link to the appropriate category that lists all units within that brigade.<br />
:::I like the idea for "status" now that I understand it... instead of having a separate section for date or destruction, we could just put the appropriate date next the status. By George, I think we might have it! --[[User:Scaletail|Scaletail]] 19:30, 21 July 2008 (CDT)<br />
::::Yes "Military units" sounds good but your right it also sounds to broad, I would expect to see units like Death Commandos or maybe dropship/jumpship fleets under such category too. Maybe "Ground Units"... na, or "Army Units"... na, maybe... look at the main page with the point "Unit Categories" and all the sub-points, what about making in similar.<br />
::::*"Formation Categories"<br />
::::**[[House Formations]]<br />
::::**[[Periphery Formations]]<br />
::::**[[Clan Formations]](Unsure as they don't show a brigade system with related regiments, instead the use similar clusters in different Galaxys, so clan formations would need some extra attention)<br />
::::**[[Mercenary Formations]](That could just be the renamed "Mercenary Units" category)<br />
::::**[[Pirate Formations]](Similar to the "Mercenary Formations")<br />
::::The "House Formation" category shows subcategories like "AFFS Formations", "CAAF Formations" etc., those can show the related brigade/milita/academy articles and subcategories like subcategory "Davion Brigade of Guards", subcategory "Draconis March Militia" and subcategory "Academy & Training Formations" etc., and each of those subcategories could show their related regiments & battalions articles like "Davion Heavy Guards", "Addicks DMM" and "1st NAIS Cadet Cadre" etc..<br />
::::I think I wasn't clear enough about the brigade & regiment articles. What I want to do is to add links in the main military article to brigade/milita etc. articles. Then in these articles there should be some major points covered besides the data in the infobox. I thought about "History", "Officers", "Tactics" and "Composition" and under “Composition” I wanted to list & link all regiments/battalions that are or were part of that brigade/milita etc.. So all together you can go down the ladder till you are down to a regiment article.<br />
::::Now that I read my post again I wonder if we need those categories at all. Their structure is very similar to what the military & brigade level articles will host. So do we really need them?--[[User:BigDuke66|BigDuke66]] 10:06, 22 July 2008 (CDT)<br />
:::::Sure. Things need to be categorized, so we might as well put them in categories that make sense without being unwieldy. With the categories, we don't need to put a dozen links in brigade articles. We need only throw in a link to the category. Of course, that means its another click away, but I think its useful to avoid clutter in the articles themselves. --[[User:Scaletail|Scaletail]] 18:24, 28 July 2008 (CDT)<br />
::::::I see that we now have also a link to the State Units on the main page or was it already there? Seems new to me. Anyway how about another for clan units? I think they are in many aspects far away from states and even further from mercenarys to justify that. BTW where do we put the units from the Bandit Kingdoms & Pirates, ComStar & WoB and Deep Periphery & the not-named-clan?--[[User:BigDuke66|BigDuke66]] 18:52, 22 August 2008 (CDT)<br />
:::::::You're right: it is relatively new. I put it there, since I felt there was a dearth of unit articles and wanted to jumpstart interest in it. However, I hadn't followed thru by reading this thread. I like your idea for a Clan units category (and will add it now). '''A''': And, I think you're also right about the need to represent the other 'factions.' I personally would consider units with Bandit Kingdoms as state ones (such as I do for the [[Brotherhood of Randis]], being a unit of the [[Fiefdom of Randis|Fiefdom]]. However, acknowledged stateless entities such as ComStar and WOB might need to be discussed. Both have held (or presently hold) planets, so I'd prefer to see them under state categories.''' B''': What about all of these being in more specific sub-categories? I cannot imagine all the Great House (plus assorted other lesser Houses) all having their units mixed up together in one broad category (Cat:State Units). It seems to me, that Cat:Marik Units should be a sub-category of Cat:State Units. Discussion? --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 00:04, 23 August 2008 (CDT)<br />
::::::::Sub-categories? Absolutely YES! I was about to ask the same today. A Sub-category for every state in the Category:State Units would help to keep the overview and articles of the brigades(Lyran Guards, Davion Guards, etc.) could link to them directly so you can get a clue of what units are in a specific brigade. --[[User:BigDuke66|BigDuke66]] 10:17, 23 August 2008 (CDT)<br />
:::::::::Ooh, good idea. Cascading categories. I'm not very knowledgeable regarding the various levels of organization, but anyone can create categories, so please...feel free to start those examples. Any ideas, however, for the Main Page namimg scheme above? We have State, Clan & Merc. I don't necessaily want to create Pirates, since there are so few articles that would be built for those, so a category that would incorporate pirates and others would be best. Cat:Misc, maybe? --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 10:37, 23 August 2008 (CDT)<br />
::::::::::Cat:Misc sounds good. Regarding ComStat & WoB I think they would fit here better than in the state category. When I think of state factions I only think of the 5 houses and minor states like Rasalhague, St. Ives, Andurien, Magistracy of Canopus, Outworlds Alliance and Taurian Concordat maybe also the Bandit kingdoms and the smaller Periphery states too but not Comstar & WoB, especially ComStar is present everywhere and much more an Organization then a state. So I think they would fit here best, maybe Chaos March & Arc-Royal Defense Cordon too?--[[User:BigDuke66|BigDuke66]] 11:11, 24 August 2008 (CDT)<br />
:::::::::::New Main Page cat created and added. BigDuke, I think you're probably a bit more qualified than myself for defining what goes where in this case. If you start the standard now with units in each category, then it'll be that much stronger for it. --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 13:52, 24 August 2008 (CDT)<br />
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===Clan Jade Falcon changes===<br />
Excuse me, I don't know if this is the right place to post this, but there seems to be no way to e-mail the admins of this site. I recently edited the Jade Falcon page, correcting some historical innacuracies and general anti-Jade Falcon bias which was present on the page, and I was messaged by the administrators that my posts were unhelpful and I was going to be charged with VANDALISM. I thought that this was a wiki in which everyone was free to contribute, not a "members-only" club in which outsiders are not tolerated. I am extremely upset by this discrimination, and will neither contribute nor endorse this discriminatory site.{{unsigned|66.18.240.88|13:40, 18 March 2008 }}<br />
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:The information that was added was extremely biased towards Clan Jade Falcon, that was why it was removed and you warned that the information you added '''might''' be considered vandalism. The current article can certainly be improved, but "Kerensky, in his hubris, decided that to have his name associated with the word "wolf" would be better for his image, and sided with the '''haughty and unworthy''' Clan Wolf [my emphasis]" is not the way to fix it. Moreover, some information was incorrect, such as the fact that more members of the Clan that Khan Crichell were involved in the downfall of ilKhan Ulric Kerensky (saKhan Chistu trapped him, for Pete's sake). "Clan Jade Falcon was the FIRST clan to allow freebirth to compete for a bloodname" is also completely untrue, as that person was actually Khan Phelan Kell of Clan Wolf.<br />
:The above reasons are why the information you added was deleted, not because of a desire to be exclusive. The warning was given because these edits violated BattleTechWiki policy, and informed you which policy it violated so you could read about it and understand why your edits were reverted. I still encourage you to read [[Policy:Neutral point of view]] so that you can better understand the reasons behind my decision. If, after that, it is still unclear, then please ask and I, or any other admin, will be happy to help you to the best of our ability. --[[User:Scaletail|Scaletail]] 17:44, 18 March 2008 (CDT)<br />
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[[Category:BattleTechWiki|Administrators]]<br />
[[Category:Help|Administrators]]</div>
Xoid
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/index.php?title=BattleTechWiki:Masthead&diff=55409
BattleTechWiki:Masthead
2009-07-19T23:13:17Z
<p>Xoid: /* Banned Vandal attempting to get a new account? */</p>
<hr />
<div>Post in the section '''Admin Help Requests''' to get proper attention to the issue/problem. Please be specific and sign your request (by adding <nowiki> ~~~~ </nowiki> at the end). <br />
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== Current Sarna.net Wiki Administrators ==<br />
* [[User:Nicjansma | NicJansma]] ([[User talk:Nicjansma|Talk]] to me)<br />
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* [[User:Revanche|Revanche]] ([[User talk:Revanche|Talk]] at me)<br />
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* [[User:Xoid|Xoid]] ([[User talk:Xoid|Talk]] to me)<br />
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* [[User:Scaletail|Scaletail]] ([[User talk:Scaletail|Talk]] to me)<br />
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* [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] ([[User talk:Frabby|Talk]] to me)<br />
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* [[User:Ebakunin|Ebakunin]] ([[User talk:Ebakunin|Talk]] to me)<br />
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Auto-updated list found [[Special:Listusers/sysop|here]]<br />
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==Admin Help Requests (Outstanding)==<br />
'''Make your request here (and sign with 4 tildes (<nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>))'''<br />
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===Banned Vandal attempting to get a new account?===<br />
I think you have a banned vandal attempting to get a new account. But this wiki has no where shown to send the information, and edits don't seem to be leaving any trace that they have been successful. http://www.fixya.com/support/t2634796-blocked_from_editing_www_sarna_net {{unsigned|72.183.119.36}}<br />
:Thanks. Responded to them at Fixya. --[[User:Xoid|Xoid]] 23:00, 19 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
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===CCG Artist Randy Asplund===<br />
Just as a notice, in return for no objection to the use of his art on BTW, I said I'd provide a link back to Randy Asplund's website on the image pages and [[Randy Asplund]] article. I don't imagine any Editors will have an issue with this arrangement. --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 05:27, 16 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
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===Community 'Forum' Name===<br />
I think its time we had a page where quick questions & answers can be asked, that don't necessarily relate to editing or admin requests. Things like:<br />
*"What was the name of that one non-Mark that became Captain-General in the war against the Sarna Supremacy?" --[[UserDude]]<br />
*"Hey...working on the article for ''Masters and Minions.'' Anyone have the production code for it?" --[[KuritaFan]]<br />
*"So...anyone think LAMs as ground vehicles, like maybe support vehicles, would be cool? I have some killer ideas." --[[LadiesMan217]]<br />
The idea would really be to provide quick answers, not so much conversations (in spite of that subtle last one), which would be directed to the Sarna forums. We'd archive it every quarter or so. This would be something similar to the Research Desk on Wikipedia. The question is: what should it be called? Chatterweb is already taken...ideas?--[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 02:46, 14 July 2009 (UTC) <br />
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===Admin To-Do List===<br />
[[Talk:3053|Locis']] comments got me thinking about how we've been handling policy creation. I know that some policies that need to be written have fallen through the cracks. I would like to suggest that admins update the [[BattleTechWiki:ToDo |To Do List]] with policies that need creating when a discussion reaches consensus with a link back to the talk page in question. I know that policy writing is a pain, but it needs to be done. I'm probably the most guilty party here, but I think if we can get better organized, it will make the process easier. --[[User:Scaletail|Scaletail]] 17:58, 11 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Agreed. I'll start considering needed policies, look around WP for inspiration. Would like to stress, though, that policies are the purview of all Editors, not just Admins. This isn't aimed at Scaletail, at all: every visitor here gets a voice on BTW, and staying silent implies endorsement of the consensus. Readers that haven't edited are just as responsible for the direction of the wiki as the most industrious Editors and Admins. --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 18:35, 11 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
::Okay, I've spent a lot of time reading various Wikipedia policies and found subject areas I think we should address. However, we've got a lot more narrow scope than WP and I'm fairly certain that these policies won't address all of our needs. All Editors (not just admins) are free to suggest ideas (and even to write policy).--[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 14:16, 13 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
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===Blocking Spammers===<br />
I've noticed a recent trend where spammers are creating User pages in which to hawk their links. '''Administrators''', please block the IP before deleting the page, so that we can start to cut down on these site attacks.<br />
Steps:<br />
# On [[Special:RecentChanges]], click on '''Block''' first.<br />
# Select a term length (my default is infinite) from '''Expiry'''.<br />
# Select ''Spamming links to external sites'' in the '''Reason''' field.<br />
# Make sure ''Prevent account creation '' and ''Automatically block the last IP address used by this user, and any subsequent IPs they try to edit from '' are checked.<br />
# Click the '''Block this user''' button<br />
# Go back to [[Special:RecentChanges]] and click on the User page.<br />
# Delete it with fervor. <br />
Thanks. --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 13:52, 6 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
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===Watchlist===<br />
Why does the option show all doesn't work? I can only see changes from the last 7 days but the option show all should show me changes from the last 30 days.--[[User:BigDuke66|BigDuke66]] 10:31, 11 August 2008 (CDT)<br />
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:I'm not sure. Nic? --[[User:Scaletail|Scaletail]] 19:06, 20 August 2008 (CDT)<br />
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::The default "max days" is 7 -- but I've bumped this up to 30 days for you. I couldn't verify it was working properly -- please let me know if you still only see 7 days. [[User:Nicjansma|Nicjansma]] 17:40, 1 March 2009 (PST)<br />
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:::Still strange, in my prefernces I tried to set the "Days to show in recent changes:" higher then 7 and also set the "Maximum number of days to show in watchlist:" higher but anyhting higher then 7 will be set to 7 and when I use the "all" option on my watchlist I get about 10 days.--[[User:BigDuke66|BigDuke66]] 07:43, 3 March 2009 (PST)<br />
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== Admin Help Requests (Completed) ==<br />
''Please move help requests here after the request is answered.<br />
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===Custom 'Mechs in Regular Categories?===<br />
Would like to get a feeling for consensus here: should fanon units be listed under categories (I had presumed) reserved for canon units. For example, [[Gatling]] is added to the BattleMechs | Medium BattleMechs | 45 ton BattleMechs | Free World's League BattleMechs categories. To be honest, I'd shy away from that and lump them under the catchall category of [[:Category:BattleMechsCustom]]. --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 21:35, 10 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
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:According to our [[Policy:Canon]], this wiki expressly tolerates custom/Fanon (fan-made non-canonical information) content under the premise that it is clearly marked as such. It think that, by extension, this requires Fanon articles be kept out of the categories.<br />
:Personally, I even feel strongly against but as you may know I am of the opinion that Fanon content is detrimental to the image of this wiki anyways. (I've been overruled on this issue and I can live with that. BTW still rocks.) [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] 00:14, 11 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
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::As do you, Frabby. Thanks for the guidance. I'll fix this one now and hopefully the established templates for custom units will help prevent this categorization overlap. --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 00:23, 11 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
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===Category:People===<br />
I started added the characters to [[:Category:People]] because it is on the main page when I realized that there is also a [[:Category:PeopleFictional]]. Since I'm sure nobody wants two identical categories, which one should we use? My vote goes to People because it's shorter and easier to find. [[User:Scaletail|Scaletail]] 14:58, 25 March 2007 (CDT)<br />
:: I vote for People as well. [[User:Nicjansma|Nicjansma]] 11:40, 26 March 2007 (CDT)<br />
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===Spam===<br />
:I just recently had to fix the Board Game page from a spammer, IP is 202.212.58.10 in case you want to block or take whatever action you need to.--[[User:CJKeys|CJKeys]] 11:11, 6 November 2006 (CST)<br />
:: Thanks CJKeys. I think I'll try to implement a captcha system for new changes that include outside URLs like wikia.com does. [[User:Nicjansma|Nicjansma]] 15:32, 6 November 2006 (CST)<br />
:::Had to fix it the [[Board Game]] page again, the IP for the spammer this time was 200.31.148.46. I dont know if you can block IPs but I thought I would let you know it happened again. Thanks.--[[User:CJKeys|CJKeys]] 00:24, 8 November 2006 (CST)<br />
::::Also, thanks, CJ. I blocked both IPs for 3 months. --[[User:Revanche|Revanche (admin)]] 01:10, 8 November 2006 (CST)<br />
:::::This looks like a minor annoying problem right now, but I could see it getting worse. Should I spend time investigating captcha for external links in edits? [[User:Nicjansma|Nicjansma]] 21:42, 21 November 2006 (CST)<br />
::::::I had to look the term up, since its the second time you've suggested this. How would you envision it working? Would everytime someone made an edit, they'd have to translate the image? Or, would we limit wiki editing only to registered users, who had to pass this test to register? The latter would be preferable to me. --[[User:Revanche|Revanche (admin)]] 00:17, 22 November 2006 (CST)<br />
:::::::Well I still want to allow anonymous edits. The captcha prompt would only occur if 1) The user was not logged in (not registered) AND 2) they posted an edit with an external link. This would avoid 90% of the 'referral spam' that spambots want. It wouldn't block vandalism, but we're only trying to curb spam-bots with captcha.<br />
::::::::I like it. It is not restrictive for 95% of any edits, as how many times will an unregistered user seek to post links? Is this something you think you can turn on? --[[User:Revanche|Revanche (admin)]] 10:21, 22 November 2006 (CST)<br />
:::::::::There may even be a way to get around needing that. The nastiest stuff is usually the ''div style="display: none"'' and similar crap that adbots love to toss around. You can also try setting a spam blocking RegEx similar to the one Wikipedia uses. It's one of the settings that is heavily documented on either [http://meta.wikimedia.org Meta] or [http://www.mediawiki.org MediaWiki.org]. --[[User:Xoid|Xoid]] 11:49, 22 November 2006 (CST)<br />
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:Some spammer just created this new article [[Board Game/]]. Can an admin please send in a few Stars of Elementals for a housecleaning mission? --[[User:Basara|Basara]] 15:04, 10 February 2007 (CST)<br />
::Went Turtle Bay on his ass. Thanks for the head's up. --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 17:27, 10 February 2007 (CST)<br />
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I've added a captcha system for BTW to combat SPAM. It will be triggered under the following conditions: [[User:Nicjansma|Nicjansma]] 18:39, 14 February 2007 (CST)<br />
# New account creation ''or''<br />
# Editing an article under '''all''' the following circumstances:<br />
::The article contains a ''new'' link to an ''external'' website<br />
::The user is not logged in<br />
::The external link is ''not'' to wikipedia.org or mediawiki.org<br />
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I hope this will be agreeable and adequate. Logged in users will never see the captcha, nor will anonymous users see it unless they post an external link. [[User:Nicjansma|Nicjansma]] 18:39, 14 February 2007 (CST)<br />
:Thank you! It was starting to get bad in the last few days. --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 19:21, 14 February 2007 (CST)<br />
::Bad? This was nothing. When you are reverting five adbots, all of which are active at the same time, while you're on your own, and all of them use a myriad of proxies '''and''' sign up under new usernames… these bots haven't even started the long road to being annoying… they're not even hiding their garbage with non-displaying &lt;div&gt;s. --[[User:Xoid|Xoid]] 00:36, 17 February 2007 (CST)<br />
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New funny guy to clean up after, article is [[Unseen]]. [[User:CJKeys|CJKeys]] 11:51, 28 February 2007 (CST)<br />
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===Copyright Infringement===<br />
Greetings. I have recently become involved in contributing to BattleTech through the Wikipedia end. I submitted one article over there, "[[Chaos March]]." I came over here, only to find that my article had been copied verbatim. By itself, this is fine, because I know Wikipedia articles are public-domain, however no credit was given on the part of the person who 'ported the article to MechWiki. I would appreciate it that, for all articles taken from Wikipedia, credit be given to the original author and/or a link be provided to the original article (as provided in Wikipedia's copyright, which can be found here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Copyrights). Since the only article of mine in question I have found is "Chaos March," that is all I am concerned with, however, I am sure the other authors from Wikipedia would appreciate it if you gave them the same consideration. {{unsigned|4.234.144.246}}<br />
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:Great. Just. Great. ''*sigh*''. Alright; damage control. Nic: can you tell me exactly which pages were auto-generated? I'll run kdiff against a list of all articles with your list of generated articles so we know which ones to exclude from our inquisitorial purge. Revanche: a list of all articles you've imported would be appreciated.<br />
:Note that I could go through the 'Mechs and see if I can find any parts that are copied verbatim, though for obvious reasons that would be a PWOT (I know everything I've submitted is my own work, Daniel's 'articles' are next to non-existent and its rather obvious from CJ's fractured English that he wrote his articles himself (no offense intended CJ)). From there we've got two options here; nuke the lot and start over, or get cracking on providing appropriate licensing information. For obvious reasons I'd prefer the latter, but if you're antsy about getting sued go for the former. --[[User:Xoid|Xoid]] 13:13, 13 December 2006 (CST)<br />
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::My apologies for not signing up and signing earlier. My bleary eyes couldn't find the "create an account," button, even though it's in the same place as Wikipedia's. Apologies are certainly accepted. Lord knows I've made mistakes in the past. I'm not going to sue, I was just upset at not being credited for my work. I think this project is a great idea that can contribute a lot to the BattleTech community. Moreover, I have trolled on sarna.net for around a decade, and I would do nothing that might harm it. I think I have somewhat of an idea of at least some pages that were 'ported over and, if you all don't mind, I'll assist in linking them back to Wikipedia. [[User:Scaletail|Scaletail]] 21:17, 13 December 2006 (CST)<br />
:::Sure, any assistance is appreciated. I wasn't worried about you per se, I'm worried about the 'we'll sue your pants off' type; we all know they exist and it's better to be safe than sorry. Once upon a time we ran into legal troubles at another wiki I work on. I do not want a repeat here. I hope that explains my somewhat panicked reaction. --[[User:Xoid|Xoid]] 00:01, 14 December 2006 (CST)<br />
::::I'm assuming your reffering to the name change of a group on UD?--[[User:The General|The General]]<sup>[[User_talk:The_General|T]]</sup> 20:33, 14 December 2006 (CST)<br />
:::::Yup, that's the one. --[[User:Xoid|Xoid]] 02:04, 15 December 2006 (CST)<br />
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:::Scaletail, any assistance you could give us in this matter, such as pointing out articles that may be infringing would be much appreciated. We are dedicated to making this wiki legit, as well as not upsetting others who have contributed to BattleTech :) [[User:Nicjansma|Nicjansma]] 13:35, 14 December 2006 (CST)<br />
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:: I apologize, 4.234.144.246. I had not realized that article was copied verbatim.<br />
:: ''Most'' of the 3,000 pages here are autogenerated (Planets, etc). We can use DynamicPageList (DPL) to get articles not in categories we've autogenerated and or created (mech articles).. try [[BattleTechWiki:SuspectPages]]. We can use that page list to review articles to see if they've been copied. We should also setup a template to link back to Wikipedia for articles that have been copied to give credit. [[User:Nicjansma|Nicjansma]] 16:46, 13 December 2006 (CST)<br />
:::Okay, guys: things are well-in-hand already, as long as we have wikicitizens helping the whole community with the procedures already in place. First of all, efforts have already been initiated to deal with this via the <nowiki>{{wikipedia}}</nowiki> tag. As 'ported articles are rediscovered, they can be linked back there. Back then, when I did much of the importing, I didn't have actual admin priviledges to do so, so it had to be exactly as it was seen, a cut & paste from wiki. The intent was clear: a different audience was being addressed. Where Wikipedia reaches out with encyclopedic info for the world that 'knows nothing' and wants to be educated on a subject, [[BTW]] is a source for fans/players of BattleTech who would not necissarily beturning to Wikipedia for source information. I 'needed' to do something quickly to show the relevance of BTW to people dropping by to check it out and I was also trying to keep the BattleTech wikiers from being fragmented between two BT-centric wikis (the other being the [http://battletech.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page MechWikia]). <br />
:::Since then, I have alternated between using the import function granted to admins and/or stating that the article was imported in the initial summary line. There was no intent to claim ownership of the articles written, and that's the purpose of the <nowiki>{{wikipedia}}</nowiki> tag. (Point-in-fact, similar work is supposed to be pointing back to the same article over here from Wikipedia, by contribs over there.) Now, I'm not going to go back thru my contribs and hit each one up, as I'm close enough to calling a wikibreak as it is. However, as is true with every other article here, each is a work in progress and no one person will ever be able to claim "that's my article" if the wiki is successful (i.e. many editors). The [[Help:Contents|Help]] page (and [[Help:Tags]] specifically) is very clear one how things are done here at BTW and all someone has to do is paste that tag on a page as it is re-discovered, and they'll be able to instantly see who the primary contributors of the article's history are over there. <br />
:::No offense was intended nor expected, as wikipedia works under the same 'no-ownership' policy. I understand that Scaletail does feel pride in writing a well-crafted article, and my intent was not to claim writing ability (where none exists, frankly). The article, however, has served an important article ''here'' by adding legitimacy and important information for the player base. I'd reccommend Scaletail make some minor alteration to the BTW version of the article (while its still young) with a summary note as coming from a primary Wikipedia contributor of the article. And also, feel pride that it has transcended from being an introductory peice for non-BTers, to a base article for a dedicated source of BT information. <br />
:::I, myself, am pretty much done with importing articles (or even editing the ones here) from Wikipedia, as there are so projects that I'd rather work on and the core material is completed. However, as Wikipedia has plenty of more material over there that really needs to be over here, importing by the cross-decking community is not a done-deal. If someone wants to address a policy page to this subject, please feel free. I do want to state to Nic, however, we don't need to be apologizing for the importing of articles from Wkipedia. Its open-source material and we already are trying to avoid the whole copyright dodge ball, as it is. We don't need to make it any harder for the few of us currently building this site. An apology for improper attribution to Wikipedia as the source is understandable and is being addressed with the cross-deck tag project.--[[User:Revanche|Revanche (admin)]] 11:50, 17 December 2006 (CST)<br />
:: Xoid, no offense taken. I was always a thespian, not a wordsmith and my grades in the fine arts (drama, chorus, etc.) vs English in high school would bear that out. As for my articles each of them are an original work. I will admit I have some articles that have sister articles on mechwikia but that is because I started there and when I came here I brought them with me. I woudl hope to hell I dont have to give myself credit for my own work just because it is in two places.--[[User:CJKeys|CJKeys]] 06:06, 15 December 2006 (CST)<br />
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===Wikilinks as non-case & Mercenaries category===<br />
Two things. First, is it possible to make wikilinks non-case sensitive, or do we have to set up redirects? So many things in BattleTech have an extra capitalized letter in the middle, it's often hard to get it right. Second, would it be possible to create a "merecenaries" category? That way all those merc units can have their own category, since they're really not factions all on their own. [[User:Scaletail|Scaletail]] 22:28, 26 December 2006 (CST)<br />
:Ugh...I know what you mean (regarding all of those midword capitalizations). I'm gonna leave the response for this one to [[user:Xoid|Xoid]].<br />
:As for a Mercenaries category, I think that's a great idea. Specifically, however, are you referring to the [[Main Page]], under the Factions bullet? --[[User:Revanche|Revanche (admin)]] 10:10, 30 December 2006 (CST)<br />
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::From what I've read? There's no practical way for MediaWiki to implement it without causing severe interoperability problems with foreign language versions, more processing, etc., etc., you can find specifics at [http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Case_sensitivity meta's page on case sensitivity]. <br />
::I will say this though: I prefer it this way. By making sure that [[SRM-6]], [[SRM 6]] and [[srm 6]] are all different? It allows me to hunt down style inconsistencies in articles and clean them up, making for a more unified feel to the BattleTech Wiki. --[[User:Xoid|Xoid]] 05:39, 27 January 2007 (CST)<br />
:::Sorry about the delayed response. I had forgotten I put this here.... I requested a category before I opened up the section on the main page, but I would envision it as two different things, though I'm not sure if the redundancy is necessary. While I'm here, can I make a request for a "people" category. Since it is on the left-hand toolbar, it would make sense to have a category for it. [[User:Scaletail|Scaletail]] 12:07, 26 February 2007 (CST)<br />
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===Weapons, Character Pages===<br />
I have two questions. First off, if a character in BattleTech is already in the [[List of BattleTech Characters|"BattleTech characters list"]], should redirect pages be made so people get pointed straight to that location? I was thinking you would just use the context indicator so it would go straight to that person, but I thought I'd ask because you may decide to give major characters (like Sun-Tzu Liao) their own articles.<br />
:I'd actually prefer we split up [[List of BattleTech Characters|"BattleTech characters list"]] and make pages for all of the characters in there. --[[User:Nicjansma|Nicjansma]] 16:14, 7 January 2007 (CST)<br />
::Agreed. Most people are going to go for specific names, or type them in directly. Apart from being neater, and circumventing various technical limitations (both server- and client-side), it'll reduce the amount of bandwidth used on outbound traffic. --[[User:Xoid|Xoid]] 05:54, 27 January 2007 (CST)<br />
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Secondly, shouldn't the weapons articles have more information than just where the weapon is manufactured? Isn't just having only where its made kind of odd? I was wondering for two reasons: 1) starting to put summaries on '''ALL''' the weapons pages would make a huge difference, and I wasn't sure if doing that would be against the BTW beliefs on the layout of said weps-articles. 2) If someone who knew very little about BattleTech wanted to find out more, here would be a great start. However, if they try to understand how a PPC or Gauss Rifle works, they would ahve to look at 'Mechs articles to (hopefully) find out.<br />
:Yes, we do want to get more data for the weapons besides just their locations of manufacture. However, when I started this wiki I pre-generated lots of pages, including using all of the manufacturing data I had available. Since some of these weapons haven't been filled with the other stats and fluff yet, all that is in them is their manuf data. --[[User:Nicjansma|Nicjansma]] 16:14, 7 January 2007 (CST)<br />
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Also, you guys should mention in one of the 'good-formatting' sections that people making new articles should see if they are spelling the linked weapons correctly. Many of the weapons listed on the Wanted Page are because a lot of people didn't use hyphens. Just saying. --[[User:~Malithion~|~Malithion~]] 13:54, 7 January 2007 (CST)<br />
:I also agree with this, however, creating redirects for simple spelling differences is easy as well. We'll never get everyone agreeing on a spelling for all items, and new people won't know about a policy like that either. It's easier, in the end, to do catch-all redirects so people get to the pages they want. --[[User:Nicjansma|Nicjansma]] 16:14, 7 January 2007 (CST)<br />
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:I believe that the names of the actual pages should be standardised, but there should still be redirects from common alterations (e.g., since [[SRM-6]] is the most prevalent 'version' so far, it would be the primary page and 'acceptable variations' would redirect to it). Ease-of-use, and a unified feel. --[[User:Xoid|Xoid]] 05:54, 27 January 2007 (CST)<br />
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Also, now that we have a [[heat sink]] article, should we just redirect to that from [[double heat sink]]? I can't think of many differences between them that warrant two articles but, hey, that's just me.<br />
Additionally, I noticed that there ''is'' a weapons template already set up (like the BattleMech box). I was wondering if any of you guys might have orginal BT data on the weps, or if its the same as the video-games. 'Cuz that's all the data I have. --[[User:~Malithion~|~Malithion~]] 18:34, 7 January 2007 (CST)<br />
:Canon data (from the board game) is what is being used. The video games tend to vary a lot (especially if you start reporting what their statistics ''actually are'', instead of ''what they say they are''). As far as I'm concerned, I believe specific pages (e.g., '[[Medium Laser]]', '[[Large Laser]]', etc.) should exist, with either relevant text be transcluded or linked to from beefy articles on the 'overall' aspect of a given technology (e.g., '[[lasers]]'). Same thing with heatsinks, etc., etc. Nic and Revanche may have other ideas though. --[[User:Xoid|Xoid]] 05:54, 27 January 2007 (CST)<br />
::No, I agree with you that the board game is the origination point for all data. Everything else can be referenced, but generally starting off from the article on the board game version of the item in question. --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 23:15, 7 February 2007 (CST)<br />
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I was curious as to whether or not we would honor labnames on this wiki. It's just a minor edit, but I was looking through the Character pages and I noticed that [[Peri]] was under the "P" section. I recall the scientist caste of the Clans being a bit more daring about the use of surnames, and adopt what they call 'labnames', surnames taken from doctors throughout history. In '[[Freebirth]]', Twilight of the Clans Book Four, she has adopted the labname Watson. Just a simple question. Thanks for your time.<br />
[[User:Jacen Pryde|Jacen Pryde]] 20:10, 10 September 2008 (CDT)<br />
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:Since they're not official, I would say "no," though it should be included in the article. --[[User:Scaletail|Scaletail]] 21:31, 10 September 2008 (CDT)<br />
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=== Drive-by deletes? ===<br />
There's been 4 articles in the last day that have had 2/3 of their article deleted by random IPs. Is this a form of vandalism? [[User:Nicjansma|Nicjansma]] 12:50, 12 April 2007 (CDT)<br />
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:It certainly sounds like it could be. What were the pages? [[User:Scaletail|Scaletail]] 18:26, 13 April 2007 (CDT)<br />
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::This has obviously been happening a lot - I've reverted probably 20 pages in the past couple of weeks with this problem. It seems odd as it's not an adbot and there doesn't seem to be any real rationale beyond just being annoying. [[User:Bdevoe|Bdevoe]]<br />
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:::I haven't seen this recently -- very strange. [[User:Nicjansma|Nicjansma]] 16:08, 2 December 2007 (CST)<br />
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===Plageurism===<br />
On the [[Thanatos]] and [[Lao Hu]] entries I had to delete the text from the articles due to the fact they were directly plageurized from another source by their original author. [[User:CJKeys|CJKeys]] 13:28, 17 May 2007 (CDT)<br />
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===Recent Spam===<br />
What can we do about this recent spam? It appears that bots are pre-pending articles with special keywords they will later search for so they know they can edit that page. Which probably won't work because we don't allow anonymous users to post external URLs. What do other wiki's do about this? [[User:Nicjansma|Nicjansma]] 22:18, 10 October 2007 (CDT)<br />
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:While it's not something I wanted to do, how about banning all IP edits? I don't know how other places handle this, but I don't think asking people to register to edit is too much. We will miss a few here a there, I would imagine, but if it stops this vandalism, I'm all for it. We could also look at it as a temporary measure until we come up with something better. [[User:Scaletail|Scaletail]] 10:51, 16 October 2007 (CDT)<br />
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::Better idea. How about changing the already-in-place captcha parameters to include all non-registered editors? [[User:Scaletail|Scaletail]] 10:45, 18 October 2007 (CDT)<br />
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::I'm opposed to this. Vandalism-by-bot will continue, with or without blocking anonymous edits. The only thing that blocking anonymous edits does is tend to cause problems; you get a flood of user accounts taking up space in the MySQL database -- making location of legitimate registered users more difficult (we are hoping we'll eventually get enough editors that [[Special:Listusers]] might eventually become a necessity, right?). Blocking anonymous edits also tends to scare off those who make once-off typo fixes. They may not contribute much, but sometimes they come back. I know that's how it was with me and Wikipedia. If I had to register an account just to fix a typo I'd never have bothered.<br />
::You'll also get the odd disgruntled user who'll make an account at BugMeNot to get around such mandatory registration, and you'll then be forced to fight a war against otherwise legitimate users. (Since there'll be no way to verify that HelpfulUser7 is always going to be the same person -- he may be a vandal one day and useful another.) Better to avoid that kettle of fish altogether, methinks. I don't particularly like your newer idea either. CAPTCHAs are seldom perfect and they are a burden on legitimate users. Considering that almost every legitimate user is registered though, it's a fine interim solution. --[[User:Xoid|Xoid]] 23:56, 22 October 2007 (CDT)<br />
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:::I agree with you in that I don't particularly like either of my suggestions, either (for much the same reasons), but I also don't see anybody else suggesting anything. I have no doubt that if there was a good, simple solution it would have already been implemented. I had meant for the CAPTCHA suggestion to be temporary, as I (perhaps incorrectly) assumed that it was something that could be done fairly easily while a more permanent solution is sought. [[User:Scaletail|Scaletail]] 17:31, 23 October 2007 (CDT)<br />
::::There's an extension that allows for this. [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:ConfirmEdit ConfirmEdit]. Permanent solutions are, in my opinion, impossible. The various botnets responsible for this stupidity consist of numerous infected PCs, many with dynamic IP addresses. If there is a spate of vandalism from a specific IP address or range, we'll block it. Apart from that? The most that can be done is to minimise harm and remain vigilant. The scumbags responsible for these botnets aren't going to close-up shop any time soon. --[[User:Xoid|Xoid]] 05:19, 24 October 2007 (CDT)<br />
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:::::I guess it's just a little frustrating for those of us who are patrolling for it. So far, [[User:Kittle|Kittle]], [[User:Scaletail|Scaletail]], and I have been doing it almost constantly and at the cost of other real work. The temp-bans seem to be having some kind of impact as I only needed to edit about 5 articles this time instead of the normal 10-20. I have found that we are missing some of the vandalism, though, as I occasionally find an article that's been recently vandalized and it has some remnant of a previous attack. I don't know that there's much more that we can do, but it does make the whole experience less than satisfying. [[User:Bdevoe|Bdevoe]] 15:48, 25 October 2007 (CDT)<br />
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::::::It definitely sucks, I agree. I'll try to remain on IM (check my [[User:Xoid|user page]] for communication avenues) so you can nudge me if you need an admin to ban someone/thing. I'm seriously considering asking Nic to bestow someone with SysOp status purely so it's possible to provide better ban hammer coverage over the day. I know Scaletail the best and would recommend him, but I've been out of the loop for too long and it'd be unfair to other editors to simply assume Scaletail is the best suited to the job. --[[User:Xoid|Xoid]] 01:01, 26 October 2007 (CDT)<br />
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:::::::With great power comes great responsibility. [[User:Scaletail|Scaletail]] 20:31, 27 October 2007 (CDT)<br />
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::::::::Can articles be protected? Some articles on WP are frequent targets of vandalism (like when Stephen Colbert tells people to), so the page in question can be protected from edits by all but an admin (or whatever the WP equivalent is). Can we do the same here with some of the most frequent targets? [[User:Scaletail|Scaletail]] 19:14, 21 November 2007 (CST)<br />
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:::::::::Unfortunately, the articles hit seem too random to be able to protect any. I've found another extension, [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:CommentSpammer CommentSpammer] that seems to address our very problem. However, it requires MediaWiki v1.12, which isn't officially released yet (we're on 1.11). I'd rather wait until v1.12 is officially released, then I'll add this extension.<br />
:::::::::I also agree with Xoid that we could use another SysOp -- Scaletail, I think you're a great fit, as you've contributed a ton to this wiki. [[User:Nicjansma|Nicjansma]] 16:08, 2 December 2007 (CST)<br />
:::::::::: After months of wasting time reverting these 'gibberish' edits from spammers/vandalizers (having personally reverted 300+ gibberish edits so far), I'm leaning towards enabling the CAPTCHA for all anonymous edits. I know this will cause legit anonymous users a small bit of hassle, but we're still not requiring them to register and it should stop all this vandalism. Any opposition? [[User:Nicjansma|Nicjansma]] 01:19, 27 December 2007 (CST)<br />
:::::::::::Not from me. --[[User:Scaletail|Scaletail]] 07:06, 27 December 2007 (CST)<br />
::::::::::::Nor I. I would welcome it, honestly. It would actually allow us to get back to some real work. ;) [[User:Bdevoe|Bdevoe]] 08:15, 27 December 2007 (CST)<br />
:::::::::::: I have made the change. [[User:Nicjansma|Nicjansma]] 10:02, 27 December 2007 (CST)<br />
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===Main Page Sidebar Problem===<br />
Is it just me or does the sidebar get pushed far down whenever the BTW icon or Home links are selected? --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 10:15, 9 December 2007 (CST)<br />
:Just you. --[[User:Scaletail|Scaletail]] 11:47, 9 December 2007 (CST)<br />
::Seriously? That sucks. I get it on IE at home and Netscape on my ship. I wonder what could be causing it. --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 12:18, 9 December 2007 (CST)<br />
:::Gross, I see that too. I'll take a look. [[User:Nicjansma|Nicjansma]] 12:28, 9 December 2007 (CST)<br />
::::There was a missing &lt;/div&gt; on the mainpage -- seems like fixing it fixed the problem. Let me know if not. [[User:Nicjansma|Nicjansma]] 13:07, 9 December 2007 (CST)<br />
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===Uploading Program files===<br />
How can I upload program files for others to download? I've tried the "upload File" link, but is this only for images? Please Help :o)<br />
[[User:Clemmensen|Clemmensen]] 04:35, 20 August 2007 (CDT)<br />
: The [[Special:Upload | Upload File]] link is only for images. For other files, please email me (nic [at] nicj [dot] net) with what you want to share and I can upload it to the [http://www.sarna.net/files file archive]. [[User:Nicjansma|Nicjansma]] 16:08, 2 December 2007 (CST)<br />
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===CCG Cards===<br />
I noticed that the mission cards from the CCG section have no text in the text box. The main text shows up fine when I go into edit mode, but not on the page itself. I was checking out the Death from Above card and saw it. Just thought I'd point it out. [[User:Haruspex|Haruspex]] 15:13, 8 February 2008 (CST)<br />
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:Great catch! I fixed the template (it lacked the "Text" parameter), so all should be good now. --[[User:Scaletail|Scaletail]] 08:01, 9 February 2008 (CST)<br />
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===Timeline===<br />
The 2796 link for Minoru Kurita points to the Minoru who would late become part of the Nova Cats can an addional page be set up for the Elder Minoru. Thanks<br />
[[User:Ursusmajor77|Ursusmajor77]] 21:07, 22 July 2008 (CDT)<br />
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:Fixed. --[[User:Scaletail|Scaletail]] 19:06, 20 August 2008 (CDT)<br />
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===Years===<br />
I have decided I have no real purpose in life, and give the years a consistent format. What tag do I use if I am unsure if the data included is accurate?<br />
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/2016 is my basic template idea {{unsigned|Moosegod|20:31, 19 August 2008}}<br />
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:"<nowiki>{{Verify}}</nowiki>" would be the one I would use. --[[User:Scaletail|Scaletail]] 19:06, 20 August 2008 (CDT)<br />
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===Notable Pilots===<br />
Hi there, I've been going through some of the mech profiles. They look like most of them are done. I was wondering if it cool for me to add notable pilots that are both published in past TROs (original 3025 example) and from the novels. Would this be acceptable? I would be listing page, book, etc. where these characters profiles are listed. I am uncertain however, how far it be allowed. Example: Pilot of a Archer from TRO Notable Piltos. That can't be put in word for word, but apprievated version what is written. Example 2: Is duable to list pilot such as Conner Rhys-Monroe, a antagonist character whom is Rifleman RFL-8D in novel Sword of Sedition & Fortress Republic. Like notable pilots, be short listing for this character. Would this be allowable? Thank you. -- [[User:Wrangler|Wrangler]] 14:24, 3 March 2009 (PST)<br />
:You can add articles for the pilots. In fact, it would be great if you did that. And please do add as many references as you can, and as precisely as you can. I have done so myself for two characters that were notable pilots in TRO3025 and re-appeared in [[Starterbook: Sword and Dragon]]. Check out [[Terry Ford]] and [[Melinda Carlyle]] for examples. In fact, I suggest you use these articles as blueprints for your character articles on people mentioned as "notable pilots".<br />
:I would not, on the other hand, add them as notable pilots in the entries of the respective 'Mechs, in accordance with our [[:Policy:Notability]]. The reason is that they are not actually notable, but virtual nobodies in most cases. Very few of these "notable" pilots have ever made an appearance elsewhere in Canon, and if we listed everybody who ever piloted a given 'Mech type in a canon source then the lists would be very, very long.<br />
::If you read [[BattleTechWiki_talk:Project_BattleMechs#Famous_Pilots|the conversation]] members of the Project BattleMechs team had concerning the addition of the "Notable Pilots" section to the BattleMech articles, you will find that adding the pilots from the TROs was specifically cited as something we did not want to happen unless they were otherwise notable. I would like to stress that one precondition (not the only one) for including a pilot as "notable" on the 'Mech article is that they have their own article on BTW, per that same discussion. While Connor, specifically, is probably notable enough, he needs to have an article written about him that asserts that first. --[[User:Scaletail|Scaletail]] 16:51, 3 March 2009 (PST)<br />
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===InfoBox template broken?===<br />
The infoboxes for 'Mechs and fiction (books, BattelCorps fiction) seem to be broken but there was no recent edit to the templates - anybody know what happened? [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] 10:52, 1 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Nic upgraded the MediaWiki software to 1.15. Good, quick catch, Frabby. Okay, let's all try and identify any other unanticipated (negative) changes that came as a result today and I'll pass those on to Nic. Hopefully, it'll just need some php tweaks and not a rollback. Report those found on this [[BattleTechWiki:Administrators/List|list]]. --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 11:16, 1 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
::Looks like all infoboxes are broken; state units, weapons, customweapons, aerospace fighters, dropships, you name it. So it looks like the software update did something to the way templates work. [[User:Onisuzume|Onisuzume]] 11:53, 1 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
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===Strick-9===<br />
I screwed up again. I don't get or understand how to edit/create here and I messed up the custom<br />
weapons list and can't remove what I did. So, I hope it can be fixed. I'm going to have my son show me how to use this system so, I don't mess it up AGAIN. Sorry for the mess.<br />
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[[User:Sethnlori|Strick-9]] 13:35, 13 June 2009 (PDT)Strick-9[[User:Sethnlori|Strick-9]] 13:35, 13 June 2009 (PDT)<br />
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:No problem. You edited a discussion page and almost anything goes on these.<br />
:I guess, you want to create that PPC-article, so my advice is:<br />
:# Open the same page again via "edit" and copy the source-code for your article (to get the code for the chart).<br />
:# Insert the name of your article in the search-box to the left and "go". (Not standard method, but easiest way.)<br />
:# A page will show up, saying that no article with this title exists, providing a red link to your "PPC something". Click on the link and an edit-page will open.<br />
:# Insert your text and "save page". Voilà: new article.<br />
:In general: Do some training in the "sandbox" (link on the left), before approaching a major task like new articles. --[[User:Detlef|Detlef]] 13:55, 13 June 2009 (PDT)<br />
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::Thank you for the help. When I started playing BattleTech there were no computer games so, I'm a generation behind most of you. LOL. By the way does anyone know if a supercharger and TSM can be used together? If so, what is the rules on that. Thanks for the help and info. --[[User:Sethnlori|Strick-9]] 14:31, 13 June 2009 (PDT)<br />
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:::Detlef wrote some really good guidance there. I was tempted to correct the article's place myself, but you really did most of the hard work already in writing the article and if you follow his steps, you'll learn the whole process. Call for help if you need it, tho, ok? --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 19:57, 13 June 2009 (PDT)<br />
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===Uploading Self-Generated Images===<br />
Hi, I suggested generating Unit TOEs for the Military Commands project, and others suggested I put up an example to demonstrate what I mean. I now have a PNG file, but no idea of how to upload. Can anyone walk me through the procedure, please?<br />
[[User:Alkemita|Alkemita]] 16:11, 25 February 2009 (PST)<br />
:As you have since uploaded and used the Waco Rangers TOE I take it this request is done? If not, please drop me a note. [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] 06:42, 27 February 2009 (PST)<br />
:::Yes, it's done - thanks. [[User:Alkemita|Alkemita]] 09:42, 27 February 2009 (PST)<br />
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===MechFormations===<br />
I thought about making a category called "MechFormations" that lists all brigades, regiments & battalions.<br/><br />
And with that in place I wanted to replace the brigade descriptions from the main military article of every house with a list of links to all the brigade articles of that house & also move the descriptions that some already have to the corresponding brigade articles.<br/><br />
And there again I wanted to add all regiments of that brigade again only with a link so that an article can be made for every regiment.<br/><br />
Problem is:<br/><br />
# Can a user create a category?<br />
# How do I make a template for a brigade info box & regiment info box? Those looks more than complicate to me especially with the help page for creating brigade & regiment articles and with a doc page for that template.<br />
# Furthermore what should be listed in those infoboxes? For brigades I thought of: brigade symbol, name, formed, status & parent formation. And for regiments: regiment symbol, name, nickname, formed, status & parent formation. Anything else?<br />
[[User:BigDuke66|BigDuke66]] 11:36, 20 July 2008 (CDT)<br />
:I was actually thinking about this subject today, so let me give my thoughts. I was thinking of creating different categories for each faction, "AFFS Units", "AFFC Units", "DCMS Units", "Clan Jade Falcon Units", "MAF Units", and so on and so forth. I was considering breaking it down with different categories in the same way that [[:Category:BattleMechs by weight class|BattleMechs are broken down by tonnage]]. For instance, [[:Category:Regular Units]] could take you to [[:Category:CCAF Units]], which takes you to [[:Category:Victoria Commonality Ranger Units]]. Each category along the way would list all of the units therein (a la [[:Category:BattleMechs]], [[:Category:Heavy BattleMechs]], [[:Category:70 ton BattleMechs]]). I think it is still appropriate to leave the descriptions of the brigades that are present on the military organization articles there, but expand upon them in full articles (in the same way that ''[[Handbook: House Steiner]]'' gives some info on them, but ''[[Field Manual: Lyran Alliance]]'' gives them a more complete treatment).<br />
:#Yes, a user can create a category. It works the same way as an article.<br />
:#Use other infoboxes as a model (Perhaps [[Template:InfoBoxMercUnit]] would be a good one to base this off of) and use the "Show Preview" button often.<br />
:#All of your suggestions sound good, except that I'm not sure what you mean by "status". The only thing I can think of to add would be an optional line for "destruction". --[[User:Scaletail|Scaletail]] 18:22, 20 July 2008 (CDT)<br />
::Well "Status" should show what the state of the unit is, active, destroyed, disbanded, deserted etc..<br/><br />
::More Categories sound good but I don't see how much different it is to what we will see in the articles.<br/><br />
::Faction>Capellan Confederation>Capellan Confederation Armed Forces>Victoria Commonality Rangers>Kingston'S Rangers<br/><br />
::Category:Regular Units>Category:CCAF Units>Category:Victoria Commonality Ranger Units>Kingston's Rangers<br/><br />
::Of course those categories would be better then just on big with all formations. I just counted the regiments of the 20 Year Update and came out with 577 and that ist without Brigades and without the Clans. We could do it like the BattleMech category, one big with all of them und some sub categories that are more specific starting with what you have suggested "Category Regular Units". And maybe "Mercenary Units"? What else? --[[User:BigDuke66|BigDuke66]] 10:11, 21 July 2008 (CDT)<br />
:::Actually, the reason I suggested "Regular Units" was because "Units" sounds like it could encompass BattleMechs, vehicles, etc. as they are "units". "Military units" is too broad (although it sounds better to me now), while "House units" is too narrow. I suppose we could integrate Mercenary units to a broader category that includes House, Periphery, and Clan units; but I think that's too much sub-categorization. <br />
:::On another note, when we create sections for the brigades, in addition to having a link to the main article for the brigade, we can have a link to the appropriate category that lists all units within that brigade. <br />
:::I like the idea for "status" now that I understand it... instead of having a separate section for date or destruction, we could just put the appropriate date next the status. By George, I think we might have it! --[[User:Scaletail|Scaletail]] 19:30, 21 July 2008 (CDT)<br />
::::Yes "Military units" sounds good but your right it also sounds to broad, I would expect to see units like Death Commandos or maybe dropship/jumpship fleets under such category too. Maybe "Ground Units"... na, or "Army Units"... na, maybe... look at the main page with the point "Unit Categories" and all the sub-points, what about making in similar.<br />
::::*"Formation Categories"<br />
::::**[[House Formations]]<br />
::::**[[Periphery Formations]]<br />
::::**[[Clan Formations]](Unsure as they don't show a brigade system with related regiments, instead the use similar clusters in different Galaxys, so clan formations would need some extra attention) <br />
::::**[[Mercenary Formations]](That could just be the renamed "Mercenary Units" category)<br />
::::**[[Pirate Formations]](Similar to the "Mercenary Formations")<br />
::::The "House Formation" category shows subcategories like "AFFS Formations", "CAAF Formations" etc., those can show the related brigade/milita/academy articles and subcategories like subcategory "Davion Brigade of Guards", subcategory "Draconis March Militia" and subcategory "Academy & Training Formations" etc., and each of those subcategories could show their related regiments & battalions articles like "Davion Heavy Guards", "Addicks DMM" and "1st NAIS Cadet Cadre" etc..<br />
::::I think I wasn't clear enough about the brigade & regiment articles. What I want to do is to add links in the main military article to brigade/milita etc. articles. Then in these articles there should be some major points covered besides the data in the infobox. I thought about "History", "Officers", "Tactics" and "Composition" and under “Composition” I wanted to list & link all regiments/battalions that are or were part of that brigade/milita etc.. So all together you can go down the ladder till you are down to a regiment article.<br />
::::Now that I read my post again I wonder if we need those categories at all. Their structure is very similar to what the military & brigade level articles will host. So do we really need them?--[[User:BigDuke66|BigDuke66]] 10:06, 22 July 2008 (CDT)<br />
:::::Sure. Things need to be categorized, so we might as well put them in categories that make sense without being unwieldy. With the categories, we don't need to put a dozen links in brigade articles. We need only throw in a link to the category. Of course, that means its another click away, but I think its useful to avoid clutter in the articles themselves. --[[User:Scaletail|Scaletail]] 18:24, 28 July 2008 (CDT)<br />
::::::I see that we now have also a link to the State Units on the main page or was it already there? Seems new to me. Anyway how about another for clan units? I think they are in many aspects far away from states and even further from mercenarys to justify that. BTW where do we put the units from the Bandit Kingdoms & Pirates, ComStar & WoB and Deep Periphery & the not-named-clan?--[[User:BigDuke66|BigDuke66]] 18:52, 22 August 2008 (CDT)<br />
:::::::You're right: it is relatively new. I put it there, since I felt there was a dearth of unit articles and wanted to jumpstart interest in it. However, I hadn't followed thru by reading this thread. I like your idea for a Clan units category (and will add it now). '''A''': And, I think you're also right about the need to represent the other 'factions.' I personally would consider units with Bandit Kingdoms as state ones (such as I do for the [[Brotherhood of Randis]], being a unit of the [[Fiefdom of Randis|Fiefdom]]. However, acknowledged stateless entities such as ComStar and WOB might need to be discussed. Both have held (or presently hold) planets, so I'd prefer to see them under state categories.''' B''': What about all of these being in more specific sub-categories? I cannot imagine all the Great House (plus assorted other lesser Houses) all having their units mixed up together in one broad category (Cat:State Units). It seems to me, that Cat:Marik Units should be a sub-category of Cat:State Units. Discussion? --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 00:04, 23 August 2008 (CDT)<br />
::::::::Sub-categories? Absolutely YES! I was about to ask the same today. A Sub-category for every state in the Category:State Units would help to keep the overview and articles of the brigades(Lyran Guards, Davion Guards, etc.) could link to them directly so you can get a clue of what units are in a specific brigade.--[[User:BigDuke66|BigDuke66]] 10:17, 23 August 2008 (CDT)<br />
:::::::::Ooh, good idea. Cascading categories. I'm not very knowledgeable regarding the various levels of organization, but anyone can create categories, so please...feel free to start those examples. Any ideas, however, for the Main Page namimg scheme above? We have State, Clan & Merc. I don't necessaily want to create Pirates, since there are so few articles that would be built for those, so a category that would incorporate pirates and others would be best. Cat:Misc, maybe? --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 10:37, 23 August 2008 (CDT)<br />
::::::::::Cat:Misc sounds good. Regarding ComStat & WoB I think they would fit here better than in the state category. When I think of state factions I only think of the 5 houses and minor states like Rasalhague, St. Ives, Andurien, Magistracy of Canopus, Outworlds Alliance and Taurian Concordat maybe also the Bandit kingdoms and the smaller Periphery states too but not Comstar & WoB, especially ComStar is present everywhere and much more an Organization then a state. So I think they would fit here best, maybe Chaos March & Arc-Royal Defense Cordon too?--[[User:BigDuke66|BigDuke66]] 11:11, 24 August 2008 (CDT)<br />
:::::::::::New Main Page cat created and added. BigDuke, I think you're probably a bit more qualified than myself for defining what goes where in this case. If you start the standard now with units in each category, then it'll be that much stronger for it. --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 13:52, 24 August 2008 (CDT)<br />
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<br />
===Clan Jade Falcon changes===<br />
Excuse me, I don't know if this is the right place to post this, but there seems to be no way to e-mail the admins of this site. I recently edited the Jade Falcon page, correcting some historical innacuracies and general anti-Jade Falcon bias which was present on the page, and I was messaged by the administrators that my posts were unhelpful and I was going to be charged with VANDALISM. I thought that this was a wiki in which everyone was free to contribute, not a "members-only" club in which outsiders are not tolerated. I am extremely upset by this discrimination, and will neither contribute nor endorse this discriminatory site.{{unsigned|66.18.240.88|13:40, 18 March 2008 }}<br />
<br />
:The information that was added was extremely biased towards Clan Jade Falcon, that was why it was removed and you warned that the information you added '''might''' be considered vandalism. The current article can certainly be improved, but "Kerensky, in his hubris, decided that to have his name associated with the word "wolf" would be better for his image, and sided with the '''haughty and unworthy''' Clan Wolf [my emphasis]" is not the way to fix it. Moreover, some information was incorrect, such as the fact that more members of the Clan that Khan Crichell were involved in the downfall of ilKhan Ulric Kerensky (saKhan Chistu trapped him, for Pete's sake). "Clan Jade Falcon was the FIRST clan to allow freebirth to compete for a bloodname" is also completely untrue, as that person was actually Khan Phelan Kell of Clan Wolf.<br />
:The above reasons are why the information you added was deleted, not because of a desire to be exclusive. The warning was given because these edits violated BattleTechWiki policy, and informed you which policy it violated so you could read about it and understand why your edits were reverted. I still encourage you to read [[Policy:Neutral point of view]] so that you can better understand the reasons behind my decision. If, after that, it is still unclear, then please ask and I, or any other admin, will be happy to help you to the best of our ability. --[[User:Scaletail|Scaletail]] 17:44, 18 March 2008 (CDT)<br />
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<br />
[[Category:BattleTechWiki|Administrators]]<br />
[[Category:Help|Administrators]]</div>
Xoid
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/index.php?title=User_talk:Xoid&diff=55408
User talk:Xoid
2009-07-19T23:11:32Z
<p>Xoid: /* Okay… I'll bite */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{User:Xoid/nav}}<br />
{{TOCright}}<br />
<br />
== Okay… I'll bite ==<br />
[[Policy:Editing|I'm curious]]. {{emoticon|;)}}--[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 19:20, 19 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
:It's a tale of two &#123;{cite}}s :P<br />
:Check out most of the pages with {{tl|cite}} on it. These are ones that are, for the most part, either imported by or written by Wikipedians. &#123;{cite}} on BTW and &#123;{cite}} on Wikipedia currently work very, very differently and are utterly incompatible. I'm replacing instances of the currently correct usage with &#123;{citation needed}} because it's less work to import pages from Wikipedia than it is to import and have to change dozens of citations each time. --[[User:Xoid|Xoid]] 19:25, 19 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
::I think I got it: [[Hesperus II]] uses <nowiki>{{cite}}</nowiki> the same way we use <nowiki><ref></nowiki>. If I understand it, we'll start using <nowiki>{{citation needed}}</nowiki> needed instead of <nowiki>{{cite}}</nowiki>, and then allow imported WP pages to use <nowiki>{{cite}}</nowiki> the same way we use <nowiki><refs></nowiki>.--[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 21:50, 19 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::I believe they used to use them "semi-interchangeably". Nowadays they actually use the two together, as seen in the pages we have that currently use it (pretty sure I fixed the few that had it used as {{tl|cn}} so any page out of the rest should display correctly now). I still need to clear up the templates a touch, maybe trim out a lot of the crap in, import and refactor their documentation, etc., but that can wait until another day. <br />
:::You can still use &#123;{cn}} if you're lazy. Pretty sure there isn't a commonly used template with that name. --[[User:Xoid|Xoid]] 22:31, 19 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
::::Okay. I just want to be sure your work is properly documented, so that people don't continue to use the wrong one unknowingly. I ''think'' I understand; I just need to view it from the perspective of a new Editor, to be sure.--[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 23:03, 19 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::::Kk, understood. :)<br />
:::::Only you used &#123;{cite}} for its old purpose (as opposed to &#123;{cn}} which is completely unaffected), so I don't think confusion between the two will be a problem. I will get around to properly documenting the current incarnation but not right now — there is too much that needs to be done to clean it up first and I'm not going to produce documentation if it'll become useless within the day. I'll get to work on cleaning it up "when I get around to it", probably some time this afternoon, documentation will follow shortly thereafter. --[[User:Xoid|Xoid]] 23:11, 19 July 2009 (UTC)</div>
Xoid
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/index.php?title=BattleTechWiki:Masthead&diff=55404
BattleTechWiki:Masthead
2009-07-19T23:00:03Z
<p>Xoid: /* Admin Help Requests (Outstanding) */</p>
<hr />
<div>Post in the section '''Admin Help Requests''' to get proper attention to the issue/problem. Please be specific and sign your request (by adding <nowiki> ~~~~ </nowiki> at the end). <br />
<br />
== Current Sarna.net Wiki Administrators ==<br />
* [[User:Nicjansma | NicJansma]] ([[User talk:Nicjansma|Talk]] to me)<br />
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* [[User:Revanche|Revanche]] ([[User talk:Revanche|Talk]] at me)<br />
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* [[User:Xoid|Xoid]] ([[User talk:Xoid|Talk]] to me)<br />
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* [[User:Scaletail|Scaletail]] ([[User talk:Scaletail|Talk]] to me)<br />
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* [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] ([[User talk:Frabby|Talk]] to me)<br />
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* [[User:Ebakunin|Ebakunin]] ([[User talk:Ebakunin|Talk]] to me)<br />
<br />
Auto-updated list found [[Special:Listusers/sysop|here]]<br />
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==Admin Help Requests (Outstanding)==<br />
'''Make your request here (and sign with 4 tildes (<nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>))'''<br />
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===Banned Vandal attempting to get a new account?===<br />
I think you have a banned vandal attempting to get a new account. But this wiki has no where shown to send the information, and edits don't seem to be leaving any trace that they have been sucessful. http://www.fixya.com/support/t2634796-blocked_from_editing_www_sarna_net {{unsigned}}<br />
:Thanks. Responded to them at Fixya. --[[User:Xoid|Xoid]] 23:00, 19 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
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===CCG Artist Randy Asplund===<br />
Just as a notice, in return for no objection to the use of his art on BTW, I said I'd provide a link back to Randy Asplund's website on the image pages and [[Randy Asplund]] article. I don't imagine any Editors will have an issue with this arrangement. --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 05:27, 16 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
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===Community 'Forum' Name===<br />
I think its time we had a page where quick questions & answers can be asked, that don't necessarily relate to editing or admin requests. Things like:<br />
*"What was the name of that one non-Mark that became Captain-General in the war against the Sarna Supremacy?" --[[UserDude]]<br />
*"Hey...working on the article for ''Masters and Minions.'' Anyone have the production code for it?" --[[KuritaFan]]<br />
*"So...anyone think LAMs as ground vehicles, like maybe support vehicles, would be cool? I have some killer ideas." --[[LadiesMan217]]<br />
The idea would really be to provide quick answers, not so much conversations (in spite of that subtle last one), which would be directed to the Sarna forums. We'd archive it every quarter or so. This would be something similar to the Research Desk on Wikipedia. The question is: what should it be called? Chatterweb is already taken...ideas?--[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 02:46, 14 July 2009 (UTC) <br />
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===Admin To-Do List===<br />
[[Talk:3053|Locis']] comments got me thinking about how we've been handling policy creation. I know that some policies that need to be written have fallen through the cracks. I would like to suggest that admins update the [[BattleTechWiki:ToDo |To Do List]] with policies that need creating when a discussion reaches consensus with a link back to the talk page in question. I know that policy writing is a pain, but it needs to be done. I'm probably the most guilty party here, but I think if we can get better organized, it will make the process easier. --[[User:Scaletail|Scaletail]] 17:58, 11 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Agreed. I'll start considering needed policies, look around WP for inspiration. Would like to stress, though, that policies are the purview of all Editors, not just Admins. This isn't aimed at Scaletail, at all: every visitor here gets a voice on BTW, and staying silent implies endorsement of the consensus. Readers that haven't edited are just as responsible for the direction of the wiki as the most industrious Editors and Admins. --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 18:35, 11 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
::Okay, I've spent a lot of time reading various Wikipedia policies and found subject areas I think we should address. However, we've got a lot more narrow scope than WP and I'm fairly certain that these policies won't address all of our needs. All Editors (not just admins) are free to suggest ideas (and even to write policy).--[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 14:16, 13 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
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===Blocking Spammers===<br />
I've noticed a recent trend where spammers are creating User pages in which to hawk their links. '''Administrators''', please block the IP before deleting the page, so that we can start to cut down on these site attacks.<br />
Steps:<br />
# On [[Special:RecentChanges]], click on '''Block''' first.<br />
# Select a term length (my default is infinite) from '''Expiry'''.<br />
# Select ''Spamming links to external sites'' in the '''Reason''' field.<br />
# Make sure ''Prevent account creation '' and ''Automatically block the last IP address used by this user, and any subsequent IPs they try to edit from '' are checked.<br />
# Click the '''Block this user''' button<br />
# Go back to [[Special:RecentChanges]] and click on the User page.<br />
# Delete it with fervor. <br />
Thanks. --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 13:52, 6 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
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===Watchlist===<br />
Why does the option show all doesn't work? I can only see changes from the last 7 days but the option show all should show me changes from the last 30 days.--[[User:BigDuke66|BigDuke66]] 10:31, 11 August 2008 (CDT)<br />
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:I'm not sure. Nic? --[[User:Scaletail|Scaletail]] 19:06, 20 August 2008 (CDT)<br />
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::The default "max days" is 7 -- but I've bumped this up to 30 days for you. I couldn't verify it was working properly -- please let me know if you still only see 7 days. [[User:Nicjansma|Nicjansma]] 17:40, 1 March 2009 (PST)<br />
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:::Still strange, in my prefernces I tried to set the "Days to show in recent changes:" higher then 7 and also set the "Maximum number of days to show in watchlist:" higher but anyhting higher then 7 will be set to 7 and when I use the "all" option on my watchlist I get about 10 days.--[[User:BigDuke66|BigDuke66]] 07:43, 3 March 2009 (PST)<br />
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== Admin Help Requests (Completed) ==<br />
''Please move help requests here after the request is answered.<br />
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<br />
===Custom 'Mechs in Regular Categories?===<br />
Would like to get a feeling for consensus here: should fanon units be listed under categories (I had presumed) reserved for canon units. For example, [[Gatling]] is added to the BattleMechs | Medium BattleMechs | 45 ton BattleMechs | Free World's League BattleMechs categories. To be honest, I'd shy away from that and lump them under the catchall category of [[:Category:BattleMechsCustom]]. --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 21:35, 10 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
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:According to our [[Policy:Canon]], this wiki expressly tolerates custom/Fanon (fan-made non-canonical information) content under the premise that it is clearly marked as such. It think that, by extension, this requires Fanon articles be kept out of the categories.<br />
:Personally, I even feel strongly against but as you may know I am of the opinion that Fanon content is detrimental to the image of this wiki anyways. (I've been overruled on this issue and I can live with that. BTW still rocks.) [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] 00:14, 11 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
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::As do you, Frabby. Thanks for the guidance. I'll fix this one now and hopefully the established templates for custom units will help prevent this categorization overlap. --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 00:23, 11 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
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===Category:People===<br />
I started added the characters to [[:Category:People]] because it is on the main page when I realized that there is also a [[:Category:PeopleFictional]]. Since I'm sure nobody wants two identical categories, which one should we use? My vote goes to People because it's shorter and easier to find. [[User:Scaletail|Scaletail]] 14:58, 25 March 2007 (CDT)<br />
:: I vote for People as well. [[User:Nicjansma|Nicjansma]] 11:40, 26 March 2007 (CDT)<br />
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===Spam===<br />
:I just recently had to fix the Board Game page from a spammer, IP is 202.212.58.10 in case you want to block or take whatever action you need to.--[[User:CJKeys|CJKeys]] 11:11, 6 November 2006 (CST)<br />
:: Thanks CJKeys. I think I'll try to implement a captcha system for new changes that include outside URLs like wikia.com does. [[User:Nicjansma|Nicjansma]] 15:32, 6 November 2006 (CST)<br />
:::Had to fix it the [[Board Game]] page again, the IP for the spammer this time was 200.31.148.46. I dont know if you can block IPs but I thought I would let you know it happened again. Thanks.--[[User:CJKeys|CJKeys]] 00:24, 8 November 2006 (CST)<br />
::::Also, thanks, CJ. I blocked both IPs for 3 months. --[[User:Revanche|Revanche (admin)]] 01:10, 8 November 2006 (CST)<br />
:::::This looks like a minor annoying problem right now, but I could see it getting worse. Should I spend time investigating captcha for external links in edits? [[User:Nicjansma|Nicjansma]] 21:42, 21 November 2006 (CST)<br />
::::::I had to look the term up, since its the second time you've suggested this. How would you envision it working? Would everytime someone made an edit, they'd have to translate the image? Or, would we limit wiki editing only to registered users, who had to pass this test to register? The latter would be preferable to me. --[[User:Revanche|Revanche (admin)]] 00:17, 22 November 2006 (CST)<br />
:::::::Well I still want to allow anonymous edits. The captcha prompt would only occur if 1) The user was not logged in (not registered) AND 2) they posted an edit with an external link. This would avoid 90% of the 'referral spam' that spambots want. It wouldn't block vandalism, but we're only trying to curb spam-bots with captcha.<br />
::::::::I like it. It is not restrictive for 95% of any edits, as how many times will an unregistered user seek to post links? Is this something you think you can turn on? --[[User:Revanche|Revanche (admin)]] 10:21, 22 November 2006 (CST)<br />
:::::::::There may even be a way to get around needing that. The nastiest stuff is usually the ''div style="display: none"'' and similar crap that adbots love to toss around. You can also try setting a spam blocking RegEx similar to the one Wikipedia uses. It's one of the settings that is heavily documented on either [http://meta.wikimedia.org Meta] or [http://www.mediawiki.org MediaWiki.org]. --[[User:Xoid|Xoid]] 11:49, 22 November 2006 (CST)<br />
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:Some spammer just created this new article [[Board Game/]]. Can an admin please send in a few Stars of Elementals for a housecleaning mission? --[[User:Basara|Basara]] 15:04, 10 February 2007 (CST)<br />
::Went Turtle Bay on his ass. Thanks for the head's up. --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 17:27, 10 February 2007 (CST)<br />
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<br />
I've added a captcha system for BTW to combat SPAM. It will be triggered under the following conditions: [[User:Nicjansma|Nicjansma]] 18:39, 14 February 2007 (CST)<br />
# New account creation ''or''<br />
# Editing an article under '''all''' the following circumstances:<br />
::The article contains a ''new'' link to an ''external'' website<br />
::The user is not logged in<br />
::The external link is ''not'' to wikipedia.org or mediawiki.org<br />
<br />
I hope this will be agreeable and adequate. Logged in users will never see the captcha, nor will anonymous users see it unless they post an external link. [[User:Nicjansma|Nicjansma]] 18:39, 14 February 2007 (CST)<br />
:Thank you! It was starting to get bad in the last few days. --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 19:21, 14 February 2007 (CST)<br />
::Bad? This was nothing. When you are reverting five adbots, all of which are active at the same time, while you're on your own, and all of them use a myriad of proxies '''and''' sign up under new usernames… these bots haven't even started the long road to being annoying… they're not even hiding their garbage with non-displaying &lt;div&gt;s. --[[User:Xoid|Xoid]] 00:36, 17 February 2007 (CST)<br />
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New funny guy to clean up after, article is [[Unseen]]. [[User:CJKeys|CJKeys]] 11:51, 28 February 2007 (CST)<br />
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===Copyright Infringement===<br />
Greetings. I have recently become involved in contributing to BattleTech through the Wikipedia end. I submitted one article over there, "[[Chaos March]]." I came over here, only to find that my article had been copied verbatim. By itself, this is fine, because I know Wikipedia articles are public-domain, however no credit was given on the part of the person who 'ported the article to MechWiki. I would appreciate it that, for all articles taken from Wikipedia, credit be given to the original author and/or a link be provided to the original article (as provided in Wikipedia's copyright, which can be found here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Copyrights). Since the only article of mine in question I have found is "Chaos March," that is all I am concerned with, however, I am sure the other authors from Wikipedia would appreciate it if you gave them the same consideration. {{unsigned|4.234.144.246}}<br />
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:Great. Just. Great. ''*sigh*''. Alright; damage control. Nic: can you tell me exactly which pages were auto-generated? I'll run kdiff against a list of all articles with your list of generated articles so we know which ones to exclude from our inquisitorial purge. Revanche: a list of all articles you've imported would be appreciated.<br />
:Note that I could go through the 'Mechs and see if I can find any parts that are copied verbatim, though for obvious reasons that would be a PWOT (I know everything I've submitted is my own work, Daniel's 'articles' are next to non-existent and its rather obvious from CJ's fractured English that he wrote his articles himself (no offense intended CJ)). From there we've got two options here; nuke the lot and start over, or get cracking on providing appropriate licensing information. For obvious reasons I'd prefer the latter, but if you're antsy about getting sued go for the former. --[[User:Xoid|Xoid]] 13:13, 13 December 2006 (CST)<br />
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::My apologies for not signing up and signing earlier. My bleary eyes couldn't find the "create an account," button, even though it's in the same place as Wikipedia's. Apologies are certainly accepted. Lord knows I've made mistakes in the past. I'm not going to sue, I was just upset at not being credited for my work. I think this project is a great idea that can contribute a lot to the BattleTech community. Moreover, I have trolled on sarna.net for around a decade, and I would do nothing that might harm it. I think I have somewhat of an idea of at least some pages that were 'ported over and, if you all don't mind, I'll assist in linking them back to Wikipedia. [[User:Scaletail|Scaletail]] 21:17, 13 December 2006 (CST)<br />
:::Sure, any assistance is appreciated. I wasn't worried about you per se, I'm worried about the 'we'll sue your pants off' type; we all know they exist and it's better to be safe than sorry. Once upon a time we ran into legal troubles at another wiki I work on. I do not want a repeat here. I hope that explains my somewhat panicked reaction. --[[User:Xoid|Xoid]] 00:01, 14 December 2006 (CST)<br />
::::I'm assuming your reffering to the name change of a group on UD?--[[User:The General|The General]]<sup>[[User_talk:The_General|T]]</sup> 20:33, 14 December 2006 (CST)<br />
:::::Yup, that's the one. --[[User:Xoid|Xoid]] 02:04, 15 December 2006 (CST)<br />
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:::Scaletail, any assistance you could give us in this matter, such as pointing out articles that may be infringing would be much appreciated. We are dedicated to making this wiki legit, as well as not upsetting others who have contributed to BattleTech :) [[User:Nicjansma|Nicjansma]] 13:35, 14 December 2006 (CST)<br />
<br />
:: I apologize, 4.234.144.246. I had not realized that article was copied verbatim.<br />
:: ''Most'' of the 3,000 pages here are autogenerated (Planets, etc). We can use DynamicPageList (DPL) to get articles not in categories we've autogenerated and or created (mech articles).. try [[BattleTechWiki:SuspectPages]]. We can use that page list to review articles to see if they've been copied. We should also setup a template to link back to Wikipedia for articles that have been copied to give credit. [[User:Nicjansma|Nicjansma]] 16:46, 13 December 2006 (CST)<br />
:::Okay, guys: things are well-in-hand already, as long as we have wikicitizens helping the whole community with the procedures already in place. First of all, efforts have already been initiated to deal with this via the <nowiki>{{wikipedia}}</nowiki> tag. As 'ported articles are rediscovered, they can be linked back there. Back then, when I did much of the importing, I didn't have actual admin priviledges to do so, so it had to be exactly as it was seen, a cut & paste from wiki. The intent was clear: a different audience was being addressed. Where Wikipedia reaches out with encyclopedic info for the world that 'knows nothing' and wants to be educated on a subject, [[BTW]] is a source for fans/players of BattleTech who would not necissarily beturning to Wikipedia for source information. I 'needed' to do something quickly to show the relevance of BTW to people dropping by to check it out and I was also trying to keep the BattleTech wikiers from being fragmented between two BT-centric wikis (the other being the [http://battletech.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page MechWikia]). <br />
:::Since then, I have alternated between using the import function granted to admins and/or stating that the article was imported in the initial summary line. There was no intent to claim ownership of the articles written, and that's the purpose of the <nowiki>{{wikipedia}}</nowiki> tag. (Point-in-fact, similar work is supposed to be pointing back to the same article over here from Wikipedia, by contribs over there.) Now, I'm not going to go back thru my contribs and hit each one up, as I'm close enough to calling a wikibreak as it is. However, as is true with every other article here, each is a work in progress and no one person will ever be able to claim "that's my article" if the wiki is successful (i.e. many editors). The [[Help:Contents|Help]] page (and [[Help:Tags]] specifically) is very clear one how things are done here at BTW and all someone has to do is paste that tag on a page as it is re-discovered, and they'll be able to instantly see who the primary contributors of the article's history are over there. <br />
:::No offense was intended nor expected, as wikipedia works under the same 'no-ownership' policy. I understand that Scaletail does feel pride in writing a well-crafted article, and my intent was not to claim writing ability (where none exists, frankly). The article, however, has served an important article ''here'' by adding legitimacy and important information for the player base. I'd reccommend Scaletail make some minor alteration to the BTW version of the article (while its still young) with a summary note as coming from a primary Wikipedia contributor of the article. And also, feel pride that it has transcended from being an introductory peice for non-BTers, to a base article for a dedicated source of BT information. <br />
:::I, myself, am pretty much done with importing articles (or even editing the ones here) from Wikipedia, as there are so projects that I'd rather work on and the core material is completed. However, as Wikipedia has plenty of more material over there that really needs to be over here, importing by the cross-decking community is not a done-deal. If someone wants to address a policy page to this subject, please feel free. I do want to state to Nic, however, we don't need to be apologizing for the importing of articles from Wkipedia. Its open-source material and we already are trying to avoid the whole copyright dodge ball, as it is. We don't need to make it any harder for the few of us currently building this site. An apology for improper attribution to Wikipedia as the source is understandable and is being addressed with the cross-deck tag project.--[[User:Revanche|Revanche (admin)]] 11:50, 17 December 2006 (CST)<br />
:: Xoid, no offense taken. I was always a thespian, not a wordsmith and my grades in the fine arts (drama, chorus, etc.) vs English in high school would bear that out. As for my articles each of them are an original work. I will admit I have some articles that have sister articles on mechwikia but that is because I started there and when I came here I brought them with me. I woudl hope to hell I dont have to give myself credit for my own work just because it is in two places.--[[User:CJKeys|CJKeys]] 06:06, 15 December 2006 (CST)<br />
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===Wikilinks as non-case & Mercenaries category===<br />
Two things. First, is it possible to make wikilinks non-case sensitive, or do we have to set up redirects? So many things in BattleTech have an extra capitalized letter in the middle, it's often hard to get it right. Second, would it be possible to create a "merecenaries" category? That way all those merc units can have their own category, since they're really not factions all on their own. [[User:Scaletail|Scaletail]] 22:28, 26 December 2006 (CST)<br />
:Ugh...I know what you mean (regarding all of those midword capitalizations). I'm gonna leave the response for this one to [[user:Xoid|Xoid]].<br />
:As for a Mercenaries category, I think that's a great idea. Specifically, however, are you referring to the [[Main Page]], under the Factions bullet? --[[User:Revanche|Revanche (admin)]] 10:10, 30 December 2006 (CST)<br />
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::From what I've read? There's no practical way for MediaWiki to implement it without causing severe interoperability problems with foreign language versions, more processing, etc., etc., you can find specifics at [http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Case_sensitivity meta's page on case sensitivity]. <br />
::I will say this though: I prefer it this way. By making sure that [[SRM-6]], [[SRM 6]] and [[srm 6]] are all different? It allows me to hunt down style inconsistencies in articles and clean them up, making for a more unified feel to the BattleTech Wiki. --[[User:Xoid|Xoid]] 05:39, 27 January 2007 (CST)<br />
:::Sorry about the delayed response. I had forgotten I put this here.... I requested a category before I opened up the section on the main page, but I would envision it as two different things, though I'm not sure if the redundancy is necessary. While I'm here, can I make a request for a "people" category. Since it is on the left-hand toolbar, it would make sense to have a category for it. [[User:Scaletail|Scaletail]] 12:07, 26 February 2007 (CST)<br />
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===Weapons, Character Pages===<br />
I have two questions. First off, if a character in BattleTech is already in the [[List of BattleTech Characters|"BattleTech characters list"]], should redirect pages be made so people get pointed straight to that location? I was thinking you would just use the context indicator so it would go straight to that person, but I thought I'd ask because you may decide to give major characters (like Sun-Tzu Liao) their own articles.<br />
:I'd actually prefer we split up [[List of BattleTech Characters|"BattleTech characters list"]] and make pages for all of the characters in there. --[[User:Nicjansma|Nicjansma]] 16:14, 7 January 2007 (CST)<br />
::Agreed. Most people are going to go for specific names, or type them in directly. Apart from being neater, and circumventing various technical limitations (both server- and client-side), it'll reduce the amount of bandwidth used on outbound traffic. --[[User:Xoid|Xoid]] 05:54, 27 January 2007 (CST)<br />
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Secondly, shouldn't the weapons articles have more information than just where the weapon is manufactured? Isn't just having only where its made kind of odd? I was wondering for two reasons: 1) starting to put summaries on '''ALL''' the weapons pages would make a huge difference, and I wasn't sure if doing that would be against the BTW beliefs on the layout of said weps-articles. 2) If someone who knew very little about BattleTech wanted to find out more, here would be a great start. However, if they try to understand how a PPC or Gauss Rifle works, they would ahve to look at 'Mechs articles to (hopefully) find out.<br />
:Yes, we do want to get more data for the weapons besides just their locations of manufacture. However, when I started this wiki I pre-generated lots of pages, including using all of the manufacturing data I had available. Since some of these weapons haven't been filled with the other stats and fluff yet, all that is in them is their manuf data. --[[User:Nicjansma|Nicjansma]] 16:14, 7 January 2007 (CST)<br />
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Also, you guys should mention in one of the 'good-formatting' sections that people making new articles should see if they are spelling the linked weapons correctly. Many of the weapons listed on the Wanted Page are because a lot of people didn't use hyphens. Just saying. --[[User:~Malithion~|~Malithion~]] 13:54, 7 January 2007 (CST)<br />
:I also agree with this, however, creating redirects for simple spelling differences is easy as well. We'll never get everyone agreeing on a spelling for all items, and new people won't know about a policy like that either. It's easier, in the end, to do catch-all redirects so people get to the pages they want. --[[User:Nicjansma|Nicjansma]] 16:14, 7 January 2007 (CST)<br />
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:I believe that the names of the actual pages should be standardised, but there should still be redirects from common alterations (e.g., since [[SRM-6]] is the most prevalent 'version' so far, it would be the primary page and 'acceptable variations' would redirect to it). Ease-of-use, and a unified feel. --[[User:Xoid|Xoid]] 05:54, 27 January 2007 (CST)<br />
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Also, now that we have a [[heat sink]] article, should we just redirect to that from [[double heat sink]]? I can't think of many differences between them that warrant two articles but, hey, that's just me.<br />
Additionally, I noticed that there ''is'' a weapons template already set up (like the BattleMech box). I was wondering if any of you guys might have orginal BT data on the weps, or if its the same as the video-games. 'Cuz that's all the data I have. --[[User:~Malithion~|~Malithion~]] 18:34, 7 January 2007 (CST)<br />
:Canon data (from the board game) is what is being used. The video games tend to vary a lot (especially if you start reporting what their statistics ''actually are'', instead of ''what they say they are''). As far as I'm concerned, I believe specific pages (e.g., '[[Medium Laser]]', '[[Large Laser]]', etc.) should exist, with either relevant text be transcluded or linked to from beefy articles on the 'overall' aspect of a given technology (e.g., '[[lasers]]'). Same thing with heatsinks, etc., etc. Nic and Revanche may have other ideas though. --[[User:Xoid|Xoid]] 05:54, 27 January 2007 (CST)<br />
::No, I agree with you that the board game is the origination point for all data. Everything else can be referenced, but generally starting off from the article on the board game version of the item in question. --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 23:15, 7 February 2007 (CST)<br />
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I was curious as to whether or not we would honor labnames on this wiki. It's just a minor edit, but I was looking through the Character pages and I noticed that [[Peri]] was under the "P" section. I recall the scientist caste of the Clans being a bit more daring about the use of surnames, and adopt what they call 'labnames', surnames taken from doctors throughout history. In '[[Freebirth]]', Twilight of the Clans Book Four, she has adopted the labname Watson. Just a simple question. Thanks for your time.<br />
[[User:Jacen Pryde|Jacen Pryde]] 20:10, 10 September 2008 (CDT)<br />
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:Since they're not official, I would say "no," though it should be included in the article. --[[User:Scaletail|Scaletail]] 21:31, 10 September 2008 (CDT)<br />
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=== Drive-by deletes? ===<br />
There's been 4 articles in the last day that have had 2/3 of their article deleted by random IPs. Is this a form of vandalism? [[User:Nicjansma|Nicjansma]] 12:50, 12 April 2007 (CDT)<br />
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:It certainly sounds like it could be. What were the pages? [[User:Scaletail|Scaletail]] 18:26, 13 April 2007 (CDT)<br />
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::This has obviously been happening a lot - I've reverted probably 20 pages in the past couple of weeks with this problem. It seems odd as it's not an adbot and there doesn't seem to be any real rationale beyond just being annoying. [[User:Bdevoe|Bdevoe]]<br />
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:::I haven't seen this recently -- very strange. [[User:Nicjansma|Nicjansma]] 16:08, 2 December 2007 (CST)<br />
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===Plageurism===<br />
On the [[Thanatos]] and [[Lao Hu]] entries I had to delete the text from the articles due to the fact they were directly plageurized from another source by their original author. [[User:CJKeys|CJKeys]] 13:28, 17 May 2007 (CDT)<br />
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===Recent Spam===<br />
What can we do about this recent spam? It appears that bots are pre-pending articles with special keywords they will later search for so they know they can edit that page. Which probably won't work because we don't allow anonymous users to post external URLs. What do other wiki's do about this? [[User:Nicjansma|Nicjansma]] 22:18, 10 October 2007 (CDT)<br />
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:While it's not something I wanted to do, how about banning all IP edits? I don't know how other places handle this, but I don't think asking people to register to edit is too much. We will miss a few here a there, I would imagine, but if it stops this vandalism, I'm all for it. We could also look at it as a temporary measure until we come up with something better. [[User:Scaletail|Scaletail]] 10:51, 16 October 2007 (CDT)<br />
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::Better idea. How about changing the already-in-place captcha parameters to include all non-registered editors? [[User:Scaletail|Scaletail]] 10:45, 18 October 2007 (CDT)<br />
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::I'm opposed to this. Vandalism-by-bot will continue, with or without blocking anonymous edits. The only thing that blocking anonymous edits does is tend to cause problems; you get a flood of user accounts taking up space in the MySQL database -- making location of legitimate registered users more difficult (we are hoping we'll eventually get enough editors that [[Special:Listusers]] might eventually become a necessity, right?). Blocking anonymous edits also tends to scare off those who make once-off typo fixes. They may not contribute much, but sometimes they come back. I know that's how it was with me and Wikipedia. If I had to register an account just to fix a typo I'd never have bothered.<br />
::You'll also get the odd disgruntled user who'll make an account at BugMeNot to get around such mandatory registration, and you'll then be forced to fight a war against otherwise legitimate users. (Since there'll be no way to verify that HelpfulUser7 is always going to be the same person -- he may be a vandal one day and useful another.) Better to avoid that kettle of fish altogether, methinks. I don't particularly like your newer idea either. CAPTCHAs are seldom perfect and they are a burden on legitimate users. Considering that almost every legitimate user is registered though, it's a fine interim solution. --[[User:Xoid|Xoid]] 23:56, 22 October 2007 (CDT)<br />
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:::I agree with you in that I don't particularly like either of my suggestions, either (for much the same reasons), but I also don't see anybody else suggesting anything. I have no doubt that if there was a good, simple solution it would have already been implemented. I had meant for the CAPTCHA suggestion to be temporary, as I (perhaps incorrectly) assumed that it was something that could be done fairly easily while a more permanent solution is sought. [[User:Scaletail|Scaletail]] 17:31, 23 October 2007 (CDT)<br />
::::There's an extension that allows for this. [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:ConfirmEdit ConfirmEdit]. Permanent solutions are, in my opinion, impossible. The various botnets responsible for this stupidity consist of numerous infected PCs, many with dynamic IP addresses. If there is a spate of vandalism from a specific IP address or range, we'll block it. Apart from that? The most that can be done is to minimise harm and remain vigilant. The scumbags responsible for these botnets aren't going to close-up shop any time soon. --[[User:Xoid|Xoid]] 05:19, 24 October 2007 (CDT)<br />
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:::::I guess it's just a little frustrating for those of us who are patrolling for it. So far, [[User:Kittle|Kittle]], [[User:Scaletail|Scaletail]], and I have been doing it almost constantly and at the cost of other real work. The temp-bans seem to be having some kind of impact as I only needed to edit about 5 articles this time instead of the normal 10-20. I have found that we are missing some of the vandalism, though, as I occasionally find an article that's been recently vandalized and it has some remnant of a previous attack. I don't know that there's much more that we can do, but it does make the whole experience less than satisfying. [[User:Bdevoe|Bdevoe]] 15:48, 25 October 2007 (CDT)<br />
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::::::It definitely sucks, I agree. I'll try to remain on IM (check my [[User:Xoid|user page]] for communication avenues) so you can nudge me if you need an admin to ban someone/thing. I'm seriously considering asking Nic to bestow someone with SysOp status purely so it's possible to provide better ban hammer coverage over the day. I know Scaletail the best and would recommend him, but I've been out of the loop for too long and it'd be unfair to other editors to simply assume Scaletail is the best suited to the job. --[[User:Xoid|Xoid]] 01:01, 26 October 2007 (CDT)<br />
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:::::::With great power comes great responsibility. [[User:Scaletail|Scaletail]] 20:31, 27 October 2007 (CDT)<br />
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::::::::Can articles be protected? Some articles on WP are frequent targets of vandalism (like when Stephen Colbert tells people to), so the page in question can be protected from edits by all but an admin (or whatever the WP equivalent is). Can we do the same here with some of the most frequent targets? [[User:Scaletail|Scaletail]] 19:14, 21 November 2007 (CST)<br />
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:::::::::Unfortunately, the articles hit seem too random to be able to protect any. I've found another extension, [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:CommentSpammer CommentSpammer] that seems to address our very problem. However, it requires MediaWiki v1.12, which isn't officially released yet (we're on 1.11). I'd rather wait until v1.12 is officially released, then I'll add this extension.<br />
:::::::::I also agree with Xoid that we could use another SysOp -- Scaletail, I think you're a great fit, as you've contributed a ton to this wiki. [[User:Nicjansma|Nicjansma]] 16:08, 2 December 2007 (CST)<br />
:::::::::: After months of wasting time reverting these 'gibberish' edits from spammers/vandalizers (having personally reverted 300+ gibberish edits so far), I'm leaning towards enabling the CAPTCHA for all anonymous edits. I know this will cause legit anonymous users a small bit of hassle, but we're still not requiring them to register and it should stop all this vandalism. Any opposition? [[User:Nicjansma|Nicjansma]] 01:19, 27 December 2007 (CST)<br />
:::::::::::Not from me. --[[User:Scaletail|Scaletail]] 07:06, 27 December 2007 (CST)<br />
::::::::::::Nor I. I would welcome it, honestly. It would actually allow us to get back to some real work. ;) [[User:Bdevoe|Bdevoe]] 08:15, 27 December 2007 (CST)<br />
:::::::::::: I have made the change. [[User:Nicjansma|Nicjansma]] 10:02, 27 December 2007 (CST)<br />
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===Main Page Sidebar Problem===<br />
Is it just me or does the sidebar get pushed far down whenever the BTW icon or Home links are selected? --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 10:15, 9 December 2007 (CST)<br />
:Just you. --[[User:Scaletail|Scaletail]] 11:47, 9 December 2007 (CST)<br />
::Seriously? That sucks. I get it on IE at home and Netscape on my ship. I wonder what could be causing it. --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 12:18, 9 December 2007 (CST)<br />
:::Gross, I see that too. I'll take a look. [[User:Nicjansma|Nicjansma]] 12:28, 9 December 2007 (CST)<br />
::::There was a missing &lt;/div&gt; on the mainpage -- seems like fixing it fixed the problem. Let me know if not. [[User:Nicjansma|Nicjansma]] 13:07, 9 December 2007 (CST)<br />
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===Uploading Program files===<br />
How can I upload program files for others to download? I've tried the "upload File" link, but is this only for images? Please Help :o)<br />
[[User:Clemmensen|Clemmensen]] 04:35, 20 August 2007 (CDT)<br />
: The [[Special:Upload | Upload File]] link is only for images. For other files, please email me (nic [at] nicj [dot] net) with what you want to share and I can upload it to the [http://www.sarna.net/files file archive]. [[User:Nicjansma|Nicjansma]] 16:08, 2 December 2007 (CST)<br />
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===CCG Cards===<br />
I noticed that the mission cards from the CCG section have no text in the text box. The main text shows up fine when I go into edit mode, but not on the page itself. I was checking out the Death from Above card and saw it. Just thought I'd point it out. [[User:Haruspex|Haruspex]] 15:13, 8 February 2008 (CST)<br />
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:Great catch! I fixed the template (it lacked the "Text" parameter), so all should be good now. --[[User:Scaletail|Scaletail]] 08:01, 9 February 2008 (CST)<br />
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===Timeline===<br />
The 2796 link for Minoru Kurita points to the Minoru who would late become part of the Nova Cats can an addional page be set up for the Elder Minoru. Thanks<br />
[[User:Ursusmajor77|Ursusmajor77]] 21:07, 22 July 2008 (CDT)<br />
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:Fixed. --[[User:Scaletail|Scaletail]] 19:06, 20 August 2008 (CDT)<br />
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===Years===<br />
I have decided I have no real purpose in life, and give the years a consistent format. What tag do I use if I am unsure if the data included is accurate?<br />
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/2016 is my basic template idea {{unsigned|Moosegod|20:31, 19 August 2008}}<br />
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:"<nowiki>{{Verify}}</nowiki>" would be the one I would use. --[[User:Scaletail|Scaletail]] 19:06, 20 August 2008 (CDT)<br />
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===Notable Pilots===<br />
Hi there, I've been going through some of the mech profiles. They look like most of them are done. I was wondering if it cool for me to add notable pilots that are both published in past TROs (original 3025 example) and from the novels. Would this be acceptable? I would be listing page, book, etc. where these characters profiles are listed. I am uncertain however, how far it be allowed. Example: Pilot of a Archer from TRO Notable Piltos. That can't be put in word for word, but apprievated version what is written. Example 2: Is duable to list pilot such as Conner Rhys-Monroe, a antagonist character whom is Rifleman RFL-8D in novel Sword of Sedition & Fortress Republic. Like notable pilots, be short listing for this character. Would this be allowable? Thank you. -- [[User:Wrangler|Wrangler]] 14:24, 3 March 2009 (PST)<br />
:You can add articles for the pilots. In fact, it would be great if you did that. And please do add as many references as you can, and as precisely as you can. I have done so myself for two characters that were notable pilots in TRO3025 and re-appeared in [[Starterbook: Sword and Dragon]]. Check out [[Terry Ford]] and [[Melinda Carlyle]] for examples. In fact, I suggest you use these articles as blueprints for your character articles on people mentioned as "notable pilots".<br />
:I would not, on the other hand, add them as notable pilots in the entries of the respective 'Mechs, in accordance with our [[:Policy:Notability]]. The reason is that they are not actually notable, but virtual nobodies in most cases. Very few of these "notable" pilots have ever made an appearance elsewhere in Canon, and if we listed everybody who ever piloted a given 'Mech type in a canon source then the lists would be very, very long.<br />
::If you read [[BattleTechWiki_talk:Project_BattleMechs#Famous_Pilots|the conversation]] members of the Project BattleMechs team had concerning the addition of the "Notable Pilots" section to the BattleMech articles, you will find that adding the pilots from the TROs was specifically cited as something we did not want to happen unless they were otherwise notable. I would like to stress that one precondition (not the only one) for including a pilot as "notable" on the 'Mech article is that they have their own article on BTW, per that same discussion. While Connor, specifically, is probably notable enough, he needs to have an article written about him that asserts that first. --[[User:Scaletail|Scaletail]] 16:51, 3 March 2009 (PST)<br />
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===InfoBox template broken?===<br />
The infoboxes for 'Mechs and fiction (books, BattelCorps fiction) seem to be broken but there was no recent edit to the templates - anybody know what happened? [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] 10:52, 1 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Nic upgraded the MediaWiki software to 1.15. Good, quick catch, Frabby. Okay, let's all try and identify any other unanticipated (negative) changes that came as a result today and I'll pass those on to Nic. Hopefully, it'll just need some php tweaks and not a rollback. Report those found on this [[BattleTechWiki:Administrators/List|list]]. --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 11:16, 1 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
::Looks like all infoboxes are broken; state units, weapons, customweapons, aerospace fighters, dropships, you name it. So it looks like the software update did something to the way templates work. [[User:Onisuzume|Onisuzume]] 11:53, 1 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
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===Strick-9===<br />
I screwed up again. I don't get or understand how to edit/create here and I messed up the custom<br />
weapons list and can't remove what I did. So, I hope it can be fixed. I'm going to have my son show me how to use this system so, I don't mess it up AGAIN. Sorry for the mess.<br />
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[[User:Sethnlori|Strick-9]] 13:35, 13 June 2009 (PDT)Strick-9[[User:Sethnlori|Strick-9]] 13:35, 13 June 2009 (PDT)<br />
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:No problem. You edited a discussion page and almost anything goes on these.<br />
:I guess, you want to create that PPC-article, so my advice is:<br />
:# Open the same page again via "edit" and copy the source-code for your article (to get the code for the chart).<br />
:# Insert the name of your article in the search-box to the left and "go". (Not standard method, but easiest way.)<br />
:# A page will show up, saying that no article with this title exists, providing a red link to your "PPC something". Click on the link and an edit-page will open.<br />
:# Insert your text and "save page". Voilà: new article.<br />
:In general: Do some training in the "sandbox" (link on the left), before approaching a major task like new articles. --[[User:Detlef|Detlef]] 13:55, 13 June 2009 (PDT)<br />
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::Thank you for the help. When I started playing BattleTech there were no computer games so, I'm a generation behind most of you. LOL. By the way does anyone know if a supercharger and TSM can be used together? If so, what is the rules on that. Thanks for the help and info. --[[User:Sethnlori|Strick-9]] 14:31, 13 June 2009 (PDT)<br />
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:::Detlef wrote some really good guidance there. I was tempted to correct the article's place myself, but you really did most of the hard work already in writing the article and if you follow his steps, you'll learn the whole process. Call for help if you need it, tho, ok? --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 19:57, 13 June 2009 (PDT)<br />
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===Uploading Self-Generated Images===<br />
Hi, I suggested generating Unit TOEs for the Military Commands project, and others suggested I put up an example to demonstrate what I mean. I now have a PNG file, but no idea of how to upload. Can anyone walk me through the procedure, please?<br />
[[User:Alkemita|Alkemita]] 16:11, 25 February 2009 (PST)<br />
:As you have since uploaded and used the Waco Rangers TOE I take it this request is done? If not, please drop me a note. [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] 06:42, 27 February 2009 (PST)<br />
:::Yes, it's done - thanks. [[User:Alkemita|Alkemita]] 09:42, 27 February 2009 (PST)<br />
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===MechFormations===<br />
I thought about making a category called "MechFormations" that lists all brigades, regiments & battalions.<br/><br />
And with that in place I wanted to replace the brigade descriptions from the main military article of every house with a list of links to all the brigade articles of that house & also move the descriptions that some already have to the corresponding brigade articles.<br/><br />
And there again I wanted to add all regiments of that brigade again only with a link so that an article can be made for every regiment.<br/><br />
Problem is:<br/><br />
# Can a user create a category?<br />
# How do I make a template for a brigade info box & regiment info box? Those looks more than complicate to me especially with the help page for creating brigade & regiment articles and with a doc page for that template.<br />
# Furthermore what should be listed in those infoboxes? For brigades I thought of: brigade symbol, name, formed, status & parent formation. And for regiments: regiment symbol, name, nickname, formed, status & parent formation. Anything else?<br />
[[User:BigDuke66|BigDuke66]] 11:36, 20 July 2008 (CDT)<br />
:I was actually thinking about this subject today, so let me give my thoughts. I was thinking of creating different categories for each faction, "AFFS Units", "AFFC Units", "DCMS Units", "Clan Jade Falcon Units", "MAF Units", and so on and so forth. I was considering breaking it down with different categories in the same way that [[:Category:BattleMechs by weight class|BattleMechs are broken down by tonnage]]. For instance, [[:Category:Regular Units]] could take you to [[:Category:CCAF Units]], which takes you to [[:Category:Victoria Commonality Ranger Units]]. Each category along the way would list all of the units therein (a la [[:Category:BattleMechs]], [[:Category:Heavy BattleMechs]], [[:Category:70 ton BattleMechs]]). I think it is still appropriate to leave the descriptions of the brigades that are present on the military organization articles there, but expand upon them in full articles (in the same way that ''[[Handbook: House Steiner]]'' gives some info on them, but ''[[Field Manual: Lyran Alliance]]'' gives them a more complete treatment).<br />
:#Yes, a user can create a category. It works the same way as an article.<br />
:#Use other infoboxes as a model (Perhaps [[Template:InfoBoxMercUnit]] would be a good one to base this off of) and use the "Show Preview" button often.<br />
:#All of your suggestions sound good, except that I'm not sure what you mean by "status". The only thing I can think of to add would be an optional line for "destruction". --[[User:Scaletail|Scaletail]] 18:22, 20 July 2008 (CDT)<br />
::Well "Status" should show what the state of the unit is, active, destroyed, disbanded, deserted etc..<br/><br />
::More Categories sound good but I don't see how much different it is to what we will see in the articles.<br/><br />
::Faction>Capellan Confederation>Capellan Confederation Armed Forces>Victoria Commonality Rangers>Kingston'S Rangers<br/><br />
::Category:Regular Units>Category:CCAF Units>Category:Victoria Commonality Ranger Units>Kingston's Rangers<br/><br />
::Of course those categories would be better then just on big with all formations. I just counted the regiments of the 20 Year Update and came out with 577 and that ist without Brigades and without the Clans. We could do it like the BattleMech category, one big with all of them und some sub categories that are more specific starting with what you have suggested "Category Regular Units". And maybe "Mercenary Units"? What else? --[[User:BigDuke66|BigDuke66]] 10:11, 21 July 2008 (CDT)<br />
:::Actually, the reason I suggested "Regular Units" was because "Units" sounds like it could encompass BattleMechs, vehicles, etc. as they are "units". "Military units" is too broad (although it sounds better to me now), while "House units" is too narrow. I suppose we could integrate Mercenary units to a broader category that includes House, Periphery, and Clan units; but I think that's too much sub-categorization. <br />
:::On another note, when we create sections for the brigades, in addition to having a link to the main article for the brigade, we can have a link to the appropriate category that lists all units within that brigade. <br />
:::I like the idea for "status" now that I understand it... instead of having a separate section for date or destruction, we could just put the appropriate date next the status. By George, I think we might have it! --[[User:Scaletail|Scaletail]] 19:30, 21 July 2008 (CDT)<br />
::::Yes "Military units" sounds good but your right it also sounds to broad, I would expect to see units like Death Commandos or maybe dropship/jumpship fleets under such category too. Maybe "Ground Units"... na, or "Army Units"... na, maybe... look at the main page with the point "Unit Categories" and all the sub-points, what about making in similar.<br />
::::*"Formation Categories"<br />
::::**[[House Formations]]<br />
::::**[[Periphery Formations]]<br />
::::**[[Clan Formations]](Unsure as they don't show a brigade system with related regiments, instead the use similar clusters in different Galaxys, so clan formations would need some extra attention) <br />
::::**[[Mercenary Formations]](That could just be the renamed "Mercenary Units" category)<br />
::::**[[Pirate Formations]](Similar to the "Mercenary Formations")<br />
::::The "House Formation" category shows subcategories like "AFFS Formations", "CAAF Formations" etc., those can show the related brigade/milita/academy articles and subcategories like subcategory "Davion Brigade of Guards", subcategory "Draconis March Militia" and subcategory "Academy & Training Formations" etc., and each of those subcategories could show their related regiments & battalions articles like "Davion Heavy Guards", "Addicks DMM" and "1st NAIS Cadet Cadre" etc..<br />
::::I think I wasn't clear enough about the brigade & regiment articles. What I want to do is to add links in the main military article to brigade/milita etc. articles. Then in these articles there should be some major points covered besides the data in the infobox. I thought about "History", "Officers", "Tactics" and "Composition" and under “Composition” I wanted to list & link all regiments/battalions that are or were part of that brigade/milita etc.. So all together you can go down the ladder till you are down to a regiment article.<br />
::::Now that I read my post again I wonder if we need those categories at all. Their structure is very similar to what the military & brigade level articles will host. So do we really need them?--[[User:BigDuke66|BigDuke66]] 10:06, 22 July 2008 (CDT)<br />
:::::Sure. Things need to be categorized, so we might as well put them in categories that make sense without being unwieldy. With the categories, we don't need to put a dozen links in brigade articles. We need only throw in a link to the category. Of course, that means its another click away, but I think its useful to avoid clutter in the articles themselves. --[[User:Scaletail|Scaletail]] 18:24, 28 July 2008 (CDT)<br />
::::::I see that we now have also a link to the State Units on the main page or was it already there? Seems new to me. Anyway how about another for clan units? I think they are in many aspects far away from states and even further from mercenarys to justify that. BTW where do we put the units from the Bandit Kingdoms & Pirates, ComStar & WoB and Deep Periphery & the not-named-clan?--[[User:BigDuke66|BigDuke66]] 18:52, 22 August 2008 (CDT)<br />
:::::::You're right: it is relatively new. I put it there, since I felt there was a dearth of unit articles and wanted to jumpstart interest in it. However, I hadn't followed thru by reading this thread. I like your idea for a Clan units category (and will add it now). '''A''': And, I think you're also right about the need to represent the other 'factions.' I personally would consider units with Bandit Kingdoms as state ones (such as I do for the [[Brotherhood of Randis]], being a unit of the [[Fiefdom of Randis|Fiefdom]]. However, acknowledged stateless entities such as ComStar and WOB might need to be discussed. Both have held (or presently hold) planets, so I'd prefer to see them under state categories.''' B''': What about all of these being in more specific sub-categories? I cannot imagine all the Great House (plus assorted other lesser Houses) all having their units mixed up together in one broad category (Cat:State Units). It seems to me, that Cat:Marik Units should be a sub-category of Cat:State Units. Discussion? --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 00:04, 23 August 2008 (CDT)<br />
::::::::Sub-categories? Absolutely YES! I was about to ask the same today. A Sub-category for every state in the Category:State Units would help to keep the overview and articles of the brigades(Lyran Guards, Davion Guards, etc.) could link to them directly so you can get a clue of what units are in a specific brigade.--[[User:BigDuke66|BigDuke66]] 10:17, 23 August 2008 (CDT)<br />
:::::::::Ooh, good idea. Cascading categories. I'm not very knowledgeable regarding the various levels of organization, but anyone can create categories, so please...feel free to start those examples. Any ideas, however, for the Main Page namimg scheme above? We have State, Clan & Merc. I don't necessaily want to create Pirates, since there are so few articles that would be built for those, so a category that would incorporate pirates and others would be best. Cat:Misc, maybe? --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 10:37, 23 August 2008 (CDT)<br />
::::::::::Cat:Misc sounds good. Regarding ComStat & WoB I think they would fit here better than in the state category. When I think of state factions I only think of the 5 houses and minor states like Rasalhague, St. Ives, Andurien, Magistracy of Canopus, Outworlds Alliance and Taurian Concordat maybe also the Bandit kingdoms and the smaller Periphery states too but not Comstar & WoB, especially ComStar is present everywhere and much more an Organization then a state. So I think they would fit here best, maybe Chaos March & Arc-Royal Defense Cordon too?--[[User:BigDuke66|BigDuke66]] 11:11, 24 August 2008 (CDT)<br />
:::::::::::New Main Page cat created and added. BigDuke, I think you're probably a bit more qualified than myself for defining what goes where in this case. If you start the standard now with units in each category, then it'll be that much stronger for it. --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 13:52, 24 August 2008 (CDT)<br />
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<br />
===Clan Jade Falcon changes===<br />
Excuse me, I don't know if this is the right place to post this, but there seems to be no way to e-mail the admins of this site. I recently edited the Jade Falcon page, correcting some historical innacuracies and general anti-Jade Falcon bias which was present on the page, and I was messaged by the administrators that my posts were unhelpful and I was going to be charged with VANDALISM. I thought that this was a wiki in which everyone was free to contribute, not a "members-only" club in which outsiders are not tolerated. I am extremely upset by this discrimination, and will neither contribute nor endorse this discriminatory site.{{unsigned|66.18.240.88|13:40, 18 March 2008 }}<br />
<br />
:The information that was added was extremely biased towards Clan Jade Falcon, that was why it was removed and you warned that the information you added '''might''' be considered vandalism. The current article can certainly be improved, but "Kerensky, in his hubris, decided that to have his name associated with the word "wolf" would be better for his image, and sided with the '''haughty and unworthy''' Clan Wolf [my emphasis]" is not the way to fix it. Moreover, some information was incorrect, such as the fact that more members of the Clan that Khan Crichell were involved in the downfall of ilKhan Ulric Kerensky (saKhan Chistu trapped him, for Pete's sake). "Clan Jade Falcon was the FIRST clan to allow freebirth to compete for a bloodname" is also completely untrue, as that person was actually Khan Phelan Kell of Clan Wolf.<br />
:The above reasons are why the information you added was deleted, not because of a desire to be exclusive. The warning was given because these edits violated BattleTechWiki policy, and informed you which policy it violated so you could read about it and understand why your edits were reverted. I still encourage you to read [[Policy:Neutral point of view]] so that you can better understand the reasons behind my decision. If, after that, it is still unclear, then please ask and I, or any other admin, will be happy to help you to the best of our ability. --[[User:Scaletail|Scaletail]] 17:44, 18 March 2008 (CDT)<br />
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[[Category:BattleTechWiki|Administrators]]<br />
[[Category:Help|Administrators]]</div>
Xoid
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/index.php?title=BattleTechWiki_talk:Data_Mining&diff=55402
BattleTechWiki talk:Data Mining
2009-07-19T22:40:04Z
<p>Xoid: /* Title */ Interesting.</p>
<hr />
<div>==Title==<br />
Maybe the title is a phrase that I just haven't heard before. In case it isn't, I suggest renaming it to "Data Mining" as this is the word used by TPTB over at the CBT.com forums. [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] 17:05, 19 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Data mining is the correct term in computing contexts, but there is a certain charm to the current title. Maybe keep the current title as a tag line? :D --[[User:Xoid|Xoid]] 17:28, 19 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
::Laughing, seriously. I had thought, when I saw the Recent Changes, that one or both of you took exception to my use of the Longbow material. I like both your ideas. When I get back home, I'll do just that. Thanks, guys. --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 19:16, 19 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::I believe in this case that fair use could be justified. It's a single section which, while quoted verbatim, is quoted verbatim for good reason — kind of hard to tell people which sections of a source text to quote based on context if they don't have said context. Might be a good idea to answer any legal inquiries with the observation that "one complete entry vs. potentially thousands of others entered by people with good intentions who are blissfully oblivious of the legal ramifications thereof; seems a forgone conclusion to me but if you insist on our removing it…". --[[User:Xoid|Xoid]] 19:26, 19 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
::::Especially ramped up if a new Editor does that with a cut 'n paste of the [[Eridani Light Horse|ELH]]. ([http://www.sarna.net/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/155739/an/0/page/0#155739 Obscure?])--[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 21:55, 19 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::::Obscure? To me, hell yes (until recently anything outside of the computer games would've been), but very, ''very'' interesting. Don't suppose you'd have any more links relating to intrigue of this nature within the BattleTech community? --[[User:Xoid|Xoid]] 22:40, 19 July 2009 (UTC)</div>
Xoid
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/index.php?title=User_talk:Xoid&diff=55401
User talk:Xoid
2009-07-19T22:31:09Z
<p>Xoid: /* Okay… I'll bite */ Resp.</p>
<hr />
<div>{{User:Xoid/nav}}<br />
{{TOCright}}<br />
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== Okay… I'll bite ==<br />
[[Policy:Editing|I'm curious]]. {{emoticon|;)}}--[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 19:20, 19 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
:It's a tale of two &#123;{cite}}s :P<br />
:Check out most of the pages with {{tl|cite}} on it. These are ones that are, for the most part, either imported by or written by Wikipedians. &#123;{cite}} on BTW and &#123;{cite}} on Wikipedia currently work very, very differently and are utterly incompatible. I'm replacing instances of the currently correct usage with &#123;{citation needed}} because it's less work to import pages from Wikipedia than it is to import and have to change dozens of citations each time. --[[User:Xoid|Xoid]] 19:25, 19 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
::I think I got it: [[Hesperus II]] uses <nowiki>{{cite}}</nowiki> the same way we use <nowiki><ref></nowiki>. If I understand it, we'll start using <nowiki>{{citation needed}}</nowiki> needed instead of <nowiki>{{cite}}</nowiki>, and then allow imported WP pages to use <nowiki>{{cite}}</nowiki> the same way we use <nowiki><refs></nowiki>.--[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 21:50, 19 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::I believe they used to use them "semi-interchangeably". Nowadays they actually use the two together, as seen in the pages we have that currently use it (pretty sure I fixed the few that had it used as {{tl|cn}} so any page out of the rest should display correctly now). I still need to clear up the templates a touch, maybe trim out a lot of the crap in, import and refactor their documentation, etc., but that can wait until another day. <br />
:::You can still use &#123;{cn}} if you're lazy. Pretty sure there isn't a commonly used template with that name. --[[User:Xoid|Xoid]] 22:31, 19 July 2009 (UTC)</div>
Xoid
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/index.php?title=Template:Italiclink&diff=55386
Template:Italiclink
2009-07-19T20:15:24Z
<p>Xoid: 1 revision</p>
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<div>''{{#if: {{{1|}}}<br />
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{{pp-template|small=yes}}<br />
{{documentation}}<br />
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Xoid
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/index.php?title=Template:Citation/core&diff=55384
Template:Citation/core
2009-07-19T20:10:43Z
<p>Xoid: 1 revision</p>
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Xoid
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/index.php?title=Template:Citation&diff=55382
Template:Citation
2009-07-19T20:10:42Z
<p>Xoid: 1 revision</p>
<hr />
<div>{{<br />
#if: {{{inventor-surname|{{{inventor1-surname|{{{inventor-last|{{{inventor1-last|{{{inventor|}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}<br />
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--><br />
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|PublicationDate = {{{publication-date|}}}<br />
|EditorSurname1 = {{{editor-last|{{{editor-surname|{{{editor1-last|{{{editor1-surname|{{{editor1|{{{editor|{{{editors|}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}<br />
|EditorSurname2 = {{{editor2-last|{{{editor2-surname|{{{editor2|}}}}}}}}}<br />
|EditorSurname3 = {{{editor3-last|{{{editor3-surname|{{{editor3|}}}}}}}}}<br />
|EditorSurname4 = {{{editor4-last|{{{editor4-surname|{{{editor4|}}}}}}}}}<br />
|EditorGiven1 = {{{editor-first|{{{editor-given|{{{editor1-first|{{{editor1-given|}}}}}}}}}}}}<br />
|EditorGiven2={{{editor2-first|{{{editor2-given|}}}}}}<br />
|EditorGiven3={{{editor3-first|{{{editor3-given|}}}}}}<br />
|EditorGiven4={{{editor4-first|{{{editor4-given|}}}}}}<br />
|Editorlink1={{{editor-link|{{{editor1-link|}}}}}}<br />
|Editorlink2={{{editor2-link|}}}<br />
|Editorlink3={{{editor3-link|}}}<br />
|Editorlink4={{{editor4-link|}}}<br />
|language = {{{language|{{{in|}}}}}}<br />
|format = {{{format|}}}<br />
|ID={{{id|{{{ID|}}}}}}<br />
|ISBN={{{isbn|{{{ISBN|}}}}}}<br />
|ISSN={{{issn|{{{ISSN|}}}}}}<br />
|OCLC={{{oclc|{{{OCLC|}}}}}}<br />
|PMID={{{pmid|{{{PMID|}}}}}}<br />
|PMC={{{pmc|{{{PMC|}}}}}}<br />
|Bibcode={{{bibcode|}}}<br />
|DOI={{{doi|{{{DOI|}}}}}}<br />
|DoiBroken={{{doi_brokendate|}}}<br />
|AccessDate={{{access-date|{{{accessdate|}}}}}}<br />
|laysummary = {{{laysummary|}}}<br />
|quote = {{{quote|}}}<br />
|laydate = {{{laydate|}}}<br />
|Ref={{{ref|}}}<br />
|Sep = {{#ifeq:{{{separator|{{{seperator}}}}}}|;|&#059;|{{{separator|{{{seperator|,}}}}}}}}<br />
|PS = {{#if:{{{quote|}}}||{{{postscript|}}}}}<br />
|amp = {{{lastauthoramp|}}}<br />
|Archive = {{#if:{{{archiveurl|}}}|archived from {{#if:{{{url|}}}|[{{{url|}}} the original]|the original}} {{#if:{{{archivedate|}}}|&#32;on {{{archivedate}}}|. You must specify the date the archive was made using the {{para|archivedate}} parameter.{{#if: {{NAMESPACE}}|| [[Category:Articles with broken citations]]}}}}<br />
}}<br />
}}}}<noinclude><br />
{{pp-template|small=yes}}<br />
{{documentation}}<br />
</noinclude></div>
Xoid
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/index.php?title=Template:Cite&diff=55380
Template:Cite
2009-07-19T20:07:11Z
<p>Xoid: In preparation for… bah. Just ask me on my talk page if you're curious.</p>
<hr />
<div>#redirect [[Template:Citation]]</div>
Xoid
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/index.php?title=Help:Commonly_used_templates&diff=55379
Help:Commonly used templates
2009-07-19T20:04:30Z
<p>Xoid: In preparation for… bah. Just ask me on my talk page if you're curious.</p>
<hr />
<div>''Use these tags either to help edit an article or create established formatted articles.''<br />
<br />
==Off-Page Administration==<br />
;'''{{tl|deletion|Enter your reason here}}''': Use this tag to mark a page for review for deletion by an [[BattleTechWiki:Administrators|Admin]]. Write your reason for deletion over '''Enter your reason here'''. ''Please'' review [[Help:Deletion]] before placing this tag.<br />
<br />
;'''#REDIRECT [&#91;real article name here]]''': This redirects a link to a different article than the one linked. The usual purpose for this is to directly link an acronym or abbreviation (ex: AFFS or 'Mech) to an article with the full name (ex: Armed Forces of the Federated Suns or BattleMech), but common titles that would all share the same article material also make use of this command. The redirect will then automatically send all so-named links (throughout the BattleTechWiki) directly to the proper page. Place this magic word on an otherwise empty article or it won't work.<br />
<br />
==On-Page Administration==<br />
;'''[&#91;Category:Insert Category Name Here&#93;]''': Use this tag to automatically link an article with articles linked to the same name. Even if you don't know if a category exists, consider adding it, because you'll start the category yourself by doing so. Insert the tag at the bottom of the page, with the category's name in place of '''Insert Category Name Here'''.<br />
<br />
;'''{{tl|cleanup}}''': Use this tag to mark a page for generic cleanup. Currently, any problem falls into this category.<br />
<br />
;'''&#123;{citation needed}}''' or '''{{tl|cn}}''': Use this tag following an article sentence, in order to request a proper reference be provided.<br />
<br />
;'''{{tl|details|Article name|Optional parameter}}''': Use this tag if you wish to highlight link providing more detail than the sub-section in which it's placed. e.g., in the Clans article, a subsection on Clan Blood Spirit would have '{{tl|details|Clan Blood Spirit}}', and would produce text saying "For more details on this topic, see [[Clan Blood Spirit]].". The link would then direct the reader to the full Clan Blood Spirit article.<br />
:To use this tag, replace '''Article name''' with the name of the page which is being linked. If it would make more sense than using the default text, include the '''Optional parameter'''; replacing it with meaningful text. e.g., {{tl|details|Clan Blood Spirit|this particular clan}} which would produce text similar to the prior example only "this topic" would be "this particular clan".<br />
<br />
;'''{{tl|disambig}}''': Place this template at the bottom of a [[BattleTechWiki:Disambiguation|disambiguation]] article.<br />
<br />
;'''{{tl|fanon}}''': This template is placed at the top of new fan-created articles, to clearly indicate it does not deal with licensed material.<br />
<br />
;'''{{tl|otheruses|1|2|3|4}}''': To be placed at the top of an article where possible confusion may exist with other similarly named articles. The fourth parameter is optional. See [[Template:Otheruses]] for proper usage.<br />
<br />
;'''{{tl|quote|''statement here''}}''': Place this one the page where you want the quote to stand out, and add in the actual quote in place of the statement here.<br />
<br />
;'''{{tl|stub}}''': Place this tag at the top of an article you feel needs to be expanded in order to be fully considered an article. Expand on your concerns in the article's discussion page.<br />
<br />
;'''{{tl|update|source title|month year}}''': Place the bolded code on top of the article's page. Replace '''''source title''''' with the article name of the new source material (there is no need to wiki-link it) and '''''month year''''' with the actual month name and year the tagged was placed.<br />
<br />
;'''{{tl|verify}}''': Place this tag at the top of an article or in a section you feel needs to be referenced, possibly due to a statement that may not be commonly known. Expand on your concerns in the article's discussion page.<br />
<br />
;'''{{tl|Wikipedia}}''': Place this tag at the top of an article that has a sister article (with the same name) at [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page Wikipedia]. It will automatically make properly formatted link that leads to the sister page.<br />
<br />
==Talk Pages==<br />
;'''{{tl|sign}}''': To provide an easy and stock-standard message for editors to use to explain to people the hows and whys of signing their posts. Place this template on the user's talk page (and don't forget to sign the entry yourself).<br />
<br />
;'''{{tl|unsigned|Username}}''' or '''{{tl|unsigned|Username|Optional comment}}''': Place this tag at the end of an [[Policy:Sign your posts on talk pages|unsigned post]]. Replace '''Username''' with the name of the user who left the comment. If you use the second example, you can include a comment of your own by replacing '''Optional comment''' with your own text. This parameter is useful for adding a timestamp, should you happen to know when the unsigned post was originally made.<br />
<br />
==Templates==<br />
;'''{{tl|tl|template name|Optional parameter|5=0}}''': This tag is for making links to templates. You may even include one or more optional parameters. Replace '''Template name''' with the name of the template you're linking to. Replace '''Optional parameter''' with a short, meaningful description of what you put as that parameter. You can have up to three optional parameters. Note that most editors will rarely need to use this tag, its primary purpose is to help with creating pages like this one, or giving an example to a new editor.<br />
<br />
[[Category:Help]]</div>
Xoid
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/index.php?title=Policy:Citation_needed&diff=55378
Policy:Citation needed
2009-07-19T19:50:53Z
<p>Xoid: In preparation for… bah. Just ask me on my talk page if you're curious.</p>
<hr />
<div>{{Essay}}<br />
<br />
{{quote|'''Example:''' [[Hanse Davion]] was disappointed that his son [[Victor Steiner-Davion|Victor]] expressed no interest in becoming a deep-sea explorer.{{cn}}}}<br />
<br />
The "citation needed" link you just followed was placed there because somebody feels that the preceding statement needs an inline citation. This may be do to the dubious nature of the statement (as in the above example) or because the statement is important enough to merit a direct citation. If you find a source for the statement, please create a reference for it.<br />
<br />
==How to cite sources==<br />
Verifiability is one of BattleTechWiki's most fundamental policies:<br />
*The [[Policy:Canon|Canon]] policy explains what constitutes a reliable source for BattleTechWiki<br />
*The [[Help:References|References]] help-page demonstrates how to properly cite sources for an article<br />
<br />
==How to produce the "citation needed" flag==<br />
* copy '''<nowiki>{{citation needed}}</nowiki>''' or '''<nowiki>{{cn}}</nowiki>''' immediately after the statement or paragraph needing a source cited</div>
Xoid
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/index.php?title=Template_talk:Check_talk&diff=55377
Template talk:Check talk
2009-07-19T19:43:24Z
<p>Xoid: Resp.</p>
<hr />
<div>''Very'' cool. Would you please apply this to the <nowiki>{{</nowiki>[[template:emoticon|emoticon]]<nowiki>}}</nowiki> template? Thanks. --<span style="font-family:Courier">[[User:Ebakunin|Ebakunin]]</span> <sup>([[User talk:Ebakunin|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Ebakunin|contribs]])</sup> 17:46, 19 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Usage is simple. Just tack &#123;{check talk}} in wherever. I usually place it as the last thing before &#60;noinclude>s. In your template's case I'm thinking a special case may need to be written as check talk doesn't really go all that well with non-message box'd templates. I'm currently busy, but I'll get on it in an hour or two if you feel like waiting.<br />
:Or were you talking about exceptions? If there isn't one already I'll add a generic exception to this so that templates with &#123;{check talk}} can be used on their own pages without incident as opposed to a case-by-case basis. --[[User:Xoid|Xoid]] 19:43, 19 July 2009 (UTC)</div>
Xoid
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/index.php?title=Help_talk:Commonly_used_templates&diff=55376
Help talk:Commonly used templates
2009-07-19T19:29:00Z
<p>Xoid: /* Terminology differentiation */ I am so embarrassed right now.</p>
<hr />
<div>==Terminology differentiation==<br />
Tags generally refer to the HTML-esque things, like <code>&lt;nowiki>&lt;/nowiki></code> or <code>&lt;noinclude>&lt;/noinclude></code>. Most of this stuff should be in a page like [[Help:Commonly used templates]]. [[Help:Templates]] should be reserved for a page that is full of the basics of template usage. --[[User:Xoid|Xoid]] 04:36, 2 February 2007 (CST)<br />
::You are suggesting we move [[Help:Tags]] to [[Help:Commonly used templates]], right? If so, I concur. --[[User:Revanche|Revanche (admin)]] 11:23, 3 February 2007 (CST)<br />
:::Well, most of it. The #REDIRECT stuff is one of those weird ones that isn't a template, isn't a HTML-esque tag. According to [[mw:Help:Magic words]] it's, er, a magic word. Like <nowiki>__TOC__ and {{PAGENAME}}</nowiki>, for example. (I do believe I'm rambling. Anyway, moved.) --[[User:Xoid|Xoid]] 18:13, 3 February 2007 (CST)<br />
::::I just spent half an hour looking at MediaWiki's source code just to make sure I would be correct if I substituted the word "tag" for "magic word" in Help:CUT. (Got side-tracked when copyediting the page.)<br />
::::Sure am doing something useful now, aren't I? To be fair it was spurred on by how [[mw:Help:Magic words]] didn't have an entry like I previously said. Cue half an hour of digging between revisions ''just to ensure that I was right'', follow by another half an hour digging through source code.<br />
::::Anyway… it appears #REDIRECT is even more special than I thought before, that I got meta.mediawiki.org and mediawiki.org mixed up, that there's no way to get a canonical answer to whether it's a magic word or not… but #REDIRECT ''isn't'' a tag, and that overall this was a gigantic waste of my time even by my loose definition. --[[User:Xoid|Xoid]] 19:29, 19 July 2009 (UTC)</div>
Xoid
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/index.php?title=BattleTechWiki_talk:Data_Mining&diff=55375
BattleTechWiki talk:Data Mining
2009-07-19T19:26:15Z
<p>Xoid: /* Title */ Resp.</p>
<hr />
<div>==Title==<br />
Maybe the title is a phrase that I just haven't heard before. In case it isn't, I suggest renaming it to "Data Mining" as this is the word used by TPTB over at the CBT.com forums. [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] 17:05, 19 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Data mining is the correct term in computing contexts, but there is a certain charm to the current title. Maybe keep the current title as a tag line? :D --[[User:Xoid|Xoid]] 17:28, 19 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
::Laughing, seriously. I had thought, when I saw the Recent Changes, that one or both of you took exception to my use of the Longbow material. I like both your ideas. When I get back home, I'll do just that. Thanks, guys. --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 19:16, 19 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::I believe in this case that fair use could be justified. It's a single section which, while quoted verbatim, is quoted verbatim for good reason — kind of hard to tell people which sections of a source text to quote based on context if they don't have said context. Might be a good idea to answer any legal inquiries with the observation that "one complete entry vs. potentially thousands of others entered by people with good intentions who are blissfully oblivious of the legal ramifications thereof; seems a forgone conclusion to me but if you insist on our removing it…". --[[User:Xoid|Xoid]] 19:26, 19 July 2009 (UTC)</div>
Xoid
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/index.php?title=User_talk:Xoid&diff=55374
User talk:Xoid
2009-07-19T19:25:34Z
<p>Xoid: /* Okay… I'll bite */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{User:Xoid/nav}}<br />
{{TOCright}}<br />
<br />
== Okay… I'll bite ==<br />
[[Policy:Editing|I'm curious]]. {{emoticon|;)}}--[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 19:20, 19 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
:It's a tale of two &#123;{cite}}s :P<br />
:Check out most of the pages with {{tl|cite}} on it. These are ones that are, for the most part, either imported by or written by Wikipedians. &#123;{cite}} on BTW and &#123;{cite}} on Wikipedia currently work very, very differently and are utterly incompatible. I'm replacing instances of the currently correct usage with &#123;{citation needed}} because it's less work to import pages from Wikipedia than it is to import and have to change dozens of citations each time. --[[User:Xoid|Xoid]] 19:25, 19 July 2009 (UTC)</div>
Xoid
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/index.php?title=User_talk:Xoid&diff=55373
User talk:Xoid
2009-07-19T19:25:20Z
<p>Xoid: /* Okay… I'll bite */ Resp.</p>
<hr />
<div>{{User:Xoid/nav}}<br />
{{TOCright}}<br />
<br />
== Okay… I'll bite ==<br />
[[Policy:Editing|I'm curious]]. {{emoticon|;)}}--[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 19:20, 19 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
:It's a tale of two &#123;{cite}}s :P<br />
:Check out most of the pages with {{tl|cite}} on it. These are ones that are, for the most part, either imported by or written by Wikipedians. &#123;{cite}} on BTW and &#123;{ on Wikipedia currently work very, very differently and are utterly incompatible. I'm replacing instances of the currently correct usage with &#123;{citation needed}} because it's less work to import pages from Wikipedia than it is to import and have to change dozens of citations each time. --[[User:Xoid|Xoid]] 19:25, 19 July 2009 (UTC)</div>
Xoid
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/index.php?title=Policy:Editing&diff=55370
Policy:Editing
2009-07-19T19:09:13Z
<p>Xoid: /* Major changes */ In preparation for… bah. just ask me on my talk page if you're curious.</p>
<hr />
<div>{{Policy}}<br />
{{nutshell|Improve pages wherever you can, and don't worry about leaving them imperfect.}}<br />
<br />
==Perfection not required==<br />
It is wonderful when someone adds a [[BattleTechWiki:The perfect article|complete, well-written, final draft]] to BattleTechWiki. This should always be encouraged.<br />
<br />
However, one of the great advantages of the wiki system is that incomplete or poorly written first drafts of articles can evolve into polished, presentable masterpieces through the process of collaborative editing. This gives our approach an advantage over other ways of producing similar end-products. Hence, the submission of rough drafts should also be encouraged as much as possible.<br />
<br />
One Editor can start an article with, perhaps, an overview or a few random facts. Another Editor can add a minority opinion. Someone else can round off the article with additional perspectives. Yet another can play up an angle that has been neglected, or reword the earlier opinions to a more [[Policy:Neutral point of view|neutral point of view]]. Another Editor might have facts and figures or a graphic to include, and yet another might fix the spelling and grammatical errors that have crept in throughout these multiple edits. Lastly, someone may work to bring the references section up to par, so that all Readers can find the original source material.<br />
<br />
As all this material is added, anyone may contribute and refactor to turn it into a more cohesive whole. Then, more text may be added, and it may also be rewritten... and so on.<br />
<br />
During this process, the article might look like a first draft&mdash;or worse, a random collection of notes and factoids. Rather than being horrified by this ugliness, we should rejoice in its potential, and have faith that the editing process will turn it into brilliant prose. Of course, we don't have to like it; we may occasionally criticize substandard work, in addition to simply correcting it. It is most important that it is corrected, if it can be corrected. For text that is beyond hope we will remove the offending section to the corresponding [[Policy:Talk page|talk page]], or in cases in which the article obviously has no redeeming merit whatsoever, delete it outright. The decision to take the latter action should not be made lightly, however.<br />
<br />
==Editing styles==<br />
Generally, different people here have different editing "styles":<br />
*Some people edit lightly and focus on contributing new content. <br />
*Others prefer to improve and greatly expand existing "stubs" and articles. <br />
*Some like to make relatively small copyediting (such as grammar, spelling, clarification, and syntax) changes, as well as adding new links and [[BattleTechWiki:How to rename (move) a page|moving pages]] (so as to rename them without losing history and talk). <br />
There is room for all of this on BattleTechWiki.<br />
<br />
===Boldness===<br />
There are also different editing styles in the sense of how bold people are willing to be: <br />
*Generally, most of us think we should be bold in updating pages.<br />
*Virtually no one behaves as though previous authors need to be consulted before making changes; if we thought that, we would make little progress. <br />
*Quite the contrary: some Editors think you should not beat around the bush at all&mdash;simply change a page immediately if you see a problem, rather than waiting to discuss changes that you believe need to be made. Discussion becomes the last resort.<br />
*An intermediate viewpoint states dialogue should be respected, but at the same time, a minor tweak should be accepted. In this view, to edit radically or not will often depend on the context&mdash;which seems reasonable enough.<br />
<br />
There is a place for all of these attitudes on BattleTechWiki.<br />
<br />
===Major changes===<br />
With large proposed deletions or replacements, it may be best to suggest changes in a discussion, lest the original author be discouraged from posting again. One person's improvement is another's desecration, and nobody likes to see their work destroyed without prior notice.<br />
If you make deletions, you should try to explain why you delete their contributions in the article talk page. This could reduce the possibility of reverting wars and unnecessary arguments.<br />
<br />
So, whatever you do, try to preserve information. Reasons for removing bits of an article include:<br />
*duplication or redundancy<br />
*irrelevancy<br />
*inaccuracy (attempt to correct the misinformation or discuss the problems first before deletion)<br />
*[[BattleTechWiki:Patent nonsense|patent nonsense]]<br />
*[[BattleTechWiki:Copyright|copyright violations]]<br />
<br />
Alternatives include:<br />
*rephrasing<br />
*correct the inaccuracy while keeping the content<br />
*moving text within an article or to another article (existing or new)<br />
*adding more of what you think is important to make an article more balanced<br />
*requesting a citation by adding the {{tl|cn}} tag<br />
<br />
If, in your considered judgment, a page simply needs to be rewritten or changed substantially, go ahead and do that. But preserve any old contents you think might have some discussion value on the talk page, along with a comment about ''why'' you made the change. Even if you delete something that's just plain false, odds are that it got there because someone believed it was true, so preserve a comment to inform later Editors that it is in fact false.<br />
<br />
==BattleTechWiki is not a discussion forum==<br />
In any event, whether you decide to edit very boldly or to make inquiries on the talk page first, please bear in mind that BattleTechWiki is not a discussion forum.<br />
<br />
BattleTechWiki can be a very energetic place, and it's best for the project as a whole if we concentrate our energies on improving articles rather than defending our pet theories, favorite ideologies, factions, characters, etc. Some consideration of [[BattleTechWiki:Etiquette|Etiquette]] wouldn't hurt.<br />
<br />
==Editing and refactoring talk pages==<br />
For additional guidelines on editing and refactoring talk pages, see the following:<br />
*[[Policy:Talk page]]<br />
*[[BattleTechWiki:Refactoring talk pages]]<br />
<br />
<br />
[[Category:Policies|Editing]]</div>
Xoid
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/index.php?title=Word_of_Blake&diff=55369
Word of Blake
2009-07-19T17:53:25Z
<p>Xoid: Some minor rewording, a couple of typos, and trimming of excess white space.</p>
<hr />
<div>{{Update Needed|[[Handbook: Major Periphery States]]}}<br />
[[Image:Wob.gif|right]]<br />
The '''Word of Blake''' was a splinter faction of [[ComStar]] that was created out of a conservative backlash to attempts at reform. The Blakists initially took refuge in the [[Free Worlds League]], but were able to move most of their operations to [[Terra]] after they conquered it in [[3058]]. They perpetrated the [[Jihad]] in [[3067]], which ended with the defeat of the Blakists in [[3081]] and the reintegration of the remaining Blakists back into ComStar.<br />
<br />
==History==<br />
===Origin===<br />
Upon the defeat of the [[Clans]] at [[Tukayyid]] at the hands of [[ComStar]], Precentor Martial [[Anastasius Focht]] returned to [[Terra]] to confront the then-Primus [[Myndo Waterly]] about her [[Operation Scorpion]], an attempt to turn the entire [[Inner Sphere]] over to the Clans. Focht, backed by much of the ComStar Order, forced Waterly to resign her position due to her perceived insanity. Waterly died only four days after resigning her position; in what ComStar archives say was a cerebral hemorrhage. Word of Blake intercepts, however, forcefully state that Focht had her killed in order to secure the power of her position. One week later, the [[First Circuit]] elected [[Sharilar Mori]], Precentor Dieron, as Primus with Focht's backing.<ref name=CS-74>'' [[ComStar (sourcebook)|ComStar]]'', pp 74</ref><br />
<br />
In protest, [[Demona Aziz]], Precentor [[Atreus]] and a member of the [[First Circuit]] during [[Operation Scorpion]], under the perspective that Focht staged an illegal coup d'etat, left Terra with her staff and a cadre of followers that agreed with her traditional interpretation of [[Jerome Blake]]'s works.<br />
<br />
Meeting with [[Thomas Marik]] on [[Atreus]], she convinced the Captain-General to grant her followers sanctuary in the [[Free Worlds League]]. Using [[ROM]] agents loyal to her, Precentor Aziz sent messages to every [[HPG]] station across the [[Inner Sphere]], inviting all ComStar members who rejected the new ways in favor of the old to join her in exile. As ComStar refugees flooded into the Free Worlds League, Marik granted the Word of Blake splinter group a land hold on the world of [[Gibson]].<br />
<br />
===To Terra===<br />
The Blakists took over the administration of the HPGs in the League, as well as the [[Capellan Confederation]] a few years later. They used this considerable income from the stations, and the time, to train their forces.<br />
<br />
Planning for the recapture of Terra began in 3057, when the Blakists sensed their opportunity due to the instability stemming from the Capellan-Free Worlds League assault into the former [[Sarna March]]. They were able to move their forces well within striking distance of Terra.<br />
<br />
This preparation all paid off for them in [[3058]] when the Blakists conquered [[Terra]] in what they called "[[Operation Odysseus]]". This was achieved partially through trickery and partly through outright military force, as the Blakists had many sympathizers on [[Terra]] who covered up the Word's assault fleet until it was too late. In addition, the Blakists had managed to smuggle a sizable force onto the planet in disguise as the [[21st Centauri Lancers]], a mercenary regiment whom [[ComStar]] had just contracted. At the same time, the Word also dispatched forces to Venus and Mars. The conquest was complete months later when Precentor [[Klaus Hettig]] switched sides and brought the [[Titan Yards|Titan Naval Yards]] into Blakist control. ComStar's Precentor Martial, [[Anastasius Focht]], declined to attempt a liberation of Terra because he believed the [[Clans]] to be a greater threat.<br />
<br />
After the conquest, the Word set about securing HPGs in the [[Chaos March]], often engaging ComStar in running battles for the stations that resulted in the disruption of interplanetary communications. The Blakists generally took a propaganda approach that made sure of appearing to help the local communities, which in turn made the locals more receptive to the Word than to ComStar.<br />
<br />
===Blake Protectorate===<br />
The Word of Blake took a real step toward legitimizing itself in the eyes of its detractors in [[3064]] when [[Thomas Marik]] nominated the Word for full [[Star League]] membership. They took this a step further in early [[3066]] with the creation of the Word of Blake Protectorate, a half-dozen [[Chaos March]] worlds that all banded together under the Word's aegis. They were contested, however, by the formation of the [[Allied Mercenary Command]] (AMC) in [[3066]] by [[Jaime Wolf]], whose implicit goal was stopping Blakist expansion in the [[Chaos March]].<ref name=JHS70-10>''[[Jihad Hot Spots: 3070]]'', pp 10</ref><br />
<br />
This situation came to a head in [[3067]] when the Word sponsored an insurrection of disaffected [[mercenaries]] on [[Outreach]], led by [[Jaime Wolf]]'s sworn enemy, Wayne Waco of the [[Waco Rangers]]. The early morning attack, which included the detonation of fuel-air explosives over the barracks of the Home Guard, took [[Wolf's Dragoons]] by surprise. Though they took a heavy toll, the Dragoons were able to rally and crush Waco's mercenaries. The Word also blockaded the [[Northwind Highlanders]], another key member of the AMC, on their home world, [[Northwind]]. With the key members of the AMC damaged or neutralized, the Blakists continued until they encountered the unthinkable.<br />
<br />
===Jihad===<br />
At the [[Whitting Conference]] of [[3067]], the [[Capellan Confederation]], [[Federated Suns]], and [[Lyran Alliance]] all announced their intentions to withdraw from the [[Star League]]. First Lord [[Christian Mansdottir]] called for a vote of no-confidence, with the hopes that the measure would pass and they could force the dissenting member-states to stay. The vote failed however, even with the hasty admission of the Word of Blake and the [[Taurian Concordat]]. With the vote of no-confidence, the [[Star League]] disbanded. However, many Blakists believed in the interpretation of a prophecy that foretold they would come to power through the League, so they were understandably upset when it ceased to exist just as they were to have joined.<br />
<br />
The Blakists resorted to threats to cajole the former [[Federated Commonwealth]] states to rejoin the League. WoB [[WarShip]]s suddenly appeared in the [[Tharkad]] and [[New Avalon]] systems bearing threats that the nations should rejoin the [[Star League]] or face the wrath of the Word of Blake. When they refused, the WarShips opened fire and dispatched ground troops. The Blakists expanded their assault to include almost every power in the [[Inner Sphere]]. They attacked, and were responsible for some factions assaulting others, in an orgy of destruction that was their [[Jihad]] until [[3081]]. That year, [[Devlin Stone]] was able to defeat the Blakists on [[Terra]], officially ending their Jihad.<br />
<br />
===Dark Age===<br />
After their epochal defeat at the end of the jihad, Word of Blake tried to start from scratch. They once again tried to develop a new and godly technology, but this time with a new approach: They transformed into an agricultural society and are trying to develop this godly power by mystic means. By [[3132]] they are effectively reduced to a footnote of history.<br />
<br />
==Politics==<br />
The Word of Blake was far too factional to be able to unite behind the First Circuit system that ComStar uses. Instead, the Ruling Conclave was composed of the heads of the the four largest factions and the Precentor Martial.<br />
<br />
The four factions on the conclave are as follows:<br />
<br />
; Counter-reformists : the smallest faction on the conclave, they feel over time that [[Jerome Blake]] word has been corrupted and may need to be revised in some areas, but not to the same extremes that caused the Word of Blake to split from [[ComStar]] originally. They approach dangerous ground with regards to their beliefs and how they are viewed by other members of the conclave.<br />
<br />
; Expatriates : When Victor Steiner-Davion became Precentor martial of ComStar in 3062 many officers and officials who had remained in the order, but wished to reverse the reforms carried out by Focht, saw that the organization was unable to be redeemed in their eyes. As such many left for the Word of Blake and became Expatriates.<br />
<br />
; Toyama's : Named after Jerome Blake’s student the Toyamas are the most radical faction on the conclave. They believe that Blake’s truth must be spread to the rest of the inner sphere by any and all means available.<br />
<br />
; True believers : one of the moderate factions on the conclave, most true believers which to come to a understanding with the rest of the inner sphere and are generally non-violent, however they are not pacifists. They feel that the Word of Blake should unify before it leads the inner sphere to the truth.<br />
<br />
The expatriates replaced another faction of the conclave in early 3062 when another faction the shunners suffered a disastrous accident on their primary home within the Terran system, one of the dome cities on Venus. The shunners isolated themselves, believing that the end of the Inner Sphere was imminent. Nearly all the shunners were killed when a bomb destroyed the machinery maintaining the atmosphere in the dome.<br />
<br />
All Word of Blake factions agree on a few points. They decry ComStar and its members as heretics for defying the ancient doctrines claimed to be the writings of [[Jerome Blake]]. They denounce as forgeries the recently discovered writings of Blake and mourn ComStar as lost, destroyed from inside, claiming that salvation is only possible by fleeing from ComStar's "corrupted vision" and joining the Word of Blake.<br />
<br />
As most of [[ROM]] defected with Aziz, the Word of Blake is observed at every level by their ROM organization, searching out ComStar infiltrators and disloyal members, dealing with them as they see fit.<br />
<br />
In [[3064]], during the [[Third Whitting Conference]], [[Thomas Marik]] and [[Precentor]] [[William Blane]] speak out openly about the relations between the [[Free Worlds League]] and Word of Blake. Thomas Marik allowed an unofficial extra 3%-tip to all payments to Word of Blake. William Blane used their friendship and allowed Word of Blake to charge an extra 5%. Unbeknownst to both (until this conversation) an unknown faction inside Word of Blake regularly overcharged by 15% and nobody knows where this money has went.<ref>''[[Storms of Fate]]'' (2002)</ref><br />
<br />
==Military==<br />
The Word of Blake Militia began its life at slightly more than four divisions of troops, the Blake Guards, which retained the standard Com Guard numbering and are were primarily tasked with defending [[Gibson]]. The Militia was twice that size in [[3058]], when the Word took [[Terra]] from [[ComStar]] and added another two divisions shortly thereafter. By the beginning of the [[Jihad]] in [[3067]], the Militia is rumored to contain over forty divisions.<ref>''[[Field Manual: ComStar]]''</ref><br />
<br />
The head of the Militia is the Precentor Martial. Senior officer positions are held by Precentors, while junior officers are adepts. The equivalent of the "enlisted" personnel is staffed by acolytes.<br />
<br />
Circa [[3072]] the Word of Blake revealed new [[BattleMech]] designs unique to their military. These include the Celestial line of OmniMechs, which count the ''[[Archangel]]'', ''[[Deva]]'', ''[[Grigori]]'', ''[[Malak]]'', ''[[Preta]]'', and ''[[Seraph]]'' among their number. These 'Mechs were often piloted by their elite [[Manei Domini]] MechWarriors.<br />
<br />
==See also==<br />
* [[ComStar]]<br />
* [[:Category:Word of Blake Characters|Word of Blake Characters]]<br />
<br />
==Notes==<br />
* The original BTW version of this article was found on the former BattleTech 3056 MUSE and written by an unknown author.<br />
<br />
==References==<br />
<references /><br />
<br />
[[Category:CBT Factions]]<br />
[[Category:ComStar]]</div>
Xoid
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/index.php?title=Template:Check_talk&diff=55367
Template:Check talk
2009-07-19T17:29:03Z
<p>Xoid: Fixed display issues on various pages. Note bene: {{BASEPAGENAME}} is whatever comes after the {{NAMESPACE}}. Stupid, stupid Xoid.</p>
<hr />
<div>{{#switch:{{BASEPAGENAME}}<br />
|Project BattleMechs<br />
|Project Biographies<br />
|Project Ground Units<br />
|Project Planets<br />
|Project Unfinished Book<br />
|Template messages<br />
|Cleanup resources= <br />
|{{#switch:{{NAMESPACE}}<br />
|{{ns:0}}<br />
|BattleTechWiki<br />
|User<br />
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|Help=<center>'''''This [[BattleTechWiki:Template|template]] is misplaced. It belongs on the [[Policy:Talk page|talk page]]:'' [[{{TALKPAGENAME}}]].'''</center><br />
[[Category:Main pages with misplaced talk page templates|{{PAGENAME}}]]}}<br />
}}<includeonly>{{#ifeq:{{NAMESPACE}}|Template|[[Category:Templates using check talk template|{{PAGENAME}}]]<br />
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</noinclude></div>
Xoid
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/index.php?title=BattleTechWiki_talk:Data_Mining&diff=55366
BattleTechWiki talk:Data Mining
2009-07-19T17:28:22Z
<p>Xoid: /* Title */ Agreed.</p>
<hr />
<div>==Title==<br />
Maybe the title is a phrase that I just haven't heard before. In case it isn't, I suggest renaming it to "Data Mining" as this is the word used by TPTB over at the CBT.com forums. [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] 17:05, 19 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Data mining is the correct term in computing contexts, but there is a certain charm to the current title. Maybe keep the current title as a tag line? :D --[[User:Xoid|Xoid]] 17:28, 19 July 2009 (UTC)</div>
Xoid
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/index.php?title=User_talk:Nicjansma&diff=55365
User talk:Nicjansma
2009-07-19T17:24:44Z
<p>Xoid: /* "Interwiki" links for Sarna's downloads */ new section</p>
<hr />
<div>= Archive =<br />
The archive of previous Talk is at my '''[[/Archive | Talk Archive]]'''<br />
<br />
= Current =<br />
<br />
==Planet Coordinate Data==<br />
Hi Nic. I was looking through the planets that are in the Wiki and noticed that all of them (or at least all the ones I checked) had incorrect coordinates. All of the X and Y coordinates are the same. Looks like it was probably an auto-generation issue, but I wanted to bring it up to see if you would be able to correct it, especially since you have the original data that was used to develop the entries. Thanks a lot! [[User:Bdevoe|Bdevoe]] 17:13, 18 August 2007 (CDT)<br />
: Thanks Bdevoe, I will determine if I can auto-update the coordinates. [[User:Nicjansma|Nicjansma]] 17:18, 2 December 2007 (CST)<br />
::Hi Nic, not sure how active you are right now but I feel a major overhaul to this wiki's stellar cartography is called for. See [[User talk:Scaletail#Stellar Cartography overhaul]]<br />
<br />
== Vandalism to front page ==<br />
Hi Nic, please take a look at the history of the front page. Two spammers (bots I presume) created user accounts and added a lot of gash to the page. When I tried to protect it I found it was already protected, so I suppose protection is only against edits from non-registered users. Is there anything you can do to totally lock the front page to all but admins? [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] 07:44, 8 January 2009 (PST)<br />
<br />
: I've verified the Main Page is "full protected", as opposed to [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semiprotection semi protected]. This means only Admins should be able to edit the front page. Are you seeing any more vandal activity lately? [[User:Nicjansma|Nicjansma]] 22:22, 25 January 2009 (PST)<br />
<br />
== Non-canon content ==<br />
I do acknowledge and appreciate that this wiki began its life as a fan site. I also acknowledge that Fanon is welcome here. But to be honest, I would rather segregate Fanon material into the newly created Fanon wiki (see front page). The reasons are manifold. Most importantly, I feel that some potential contributors are put off by the prospect of encountering unvalidated Fanon in the articles of the BT Wiki. I have repeatedly explained our policy, and that Fanon is segregated from official/licensed material. But many users seem to expect that a BattleTech Wiki would not contain Fanon at all. To be painfully honest, I do agree with that sentiment, and deep down in my heart disagree with the policy.<br>The reason why I raise the topic here is that you, as the owner and bureaucrat, have the say in this matter as far as I see it, as this is your site. I feel bad about taking Fanon stuff away from the contributors, but the inclusion of Fanon, even if clearly marked, may damage the reputation of the wiki and hinder its evolution into "The" BT wiki - especially if we have people like [[:User:Cray]] contributing here. I therefore suggest to take the step and purge all Fanon articles from here, moving them to the Fanon Wiki instead and keeping them separate in the future. (I can totally live with the proposal being shot down in flames, but felt I had to voice my feelings on the matter.) [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] 06:51, 26 February 2009 (PST)<br />
:I'll totally agree with Frabby especially the point about evolution. To be honest I didn't even knew this wiki allows fanon that's why I marked an article for deletion that is fanon.--[[User:BigDuke66|BigDuke66]] 13:06, 26 February 2009 (PST)<br />
::As far as I know, the problems only arise when people don't flag fanon contents as fanon. Maybe that's being done out of ignorance, but even so. And if that would be the case, then I'd rather suggest raising awereness of the <nowiki>{{fanon}}</nowiki> tag. [[User:Onisuzume|Onisuzume]] 04:23, 27 February 2009 (PST)<br />
:::I'm certainly not opposed to the new Wiki for Fanon, if the need exists and people want to create content there. I do think BTW's <nowiki>{{fanon}}</nowiki> tag works adequately enough; I want people to still be able to post Fanon here as well, if they wish, as long as it is tagged accordingly. [[User:Nicjansma|Nicjansma]] 17:34, 1 March 2009 (PST)<br />
Understood. Just to clear this up, the [http://www.battletechfanon.wikia.com/ BattleTech Fanon Wiki] has already been set up some time ago by a user from this wiki. Next questions:<br />
*Is it okay to actively point people to the Fanon Wiki (through Talk pages)?<br />
*Is it okay to add a notion to the [[:Policy:Notability]] about the Fanon Wiki?<br />
[[User:Frabby|Frabby]] 23:25, 1 March 2009 (PST)<br />
:This leads to another problem: Can other BT-fansites demand that you also link to them, for equal treatment among fans? (I encountered exactly that problem in another SF-wiki.) --[[User:Detlef|Detlef]] 05:04, 2 March 2009 (PST)<br />
::Well, if they link to you, then its only a common courtesy to link back to them I guess. Its also only a small effort to edit to links page. But still, demanding it sounds a bit too... drastic. As for the fanon wiki, my only problem with it is its lack of contents. [[User:Onisuzume|Onisuzume]] 05:32, 2 March 2009 (PST)<br />
:::If we can agree that this wiki should actively seek to promote the Fanon Wiki (in an effort to concentrate on canonical/official content), then I would tag all Fanon articles here with a request to the original creator to port them to the Fanon wiki, and perhaps do it myself (with appropriate credits). That should give the Fanon Wiki some more content to evolve from. Personally, I'd like to see a co-existence of both Wikis with the aim of more clearly segregating Fanon from official products. [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] 05:48, 2 March 2009 (PST)<br />
::::A co-existence with a clear separation sounds perfect to me.--[[User:BigDuke66|BigDuke66]] 07:31, 3 March 2009 (PST)<br />
:::::My only concern is actively promoting moving content to another site, that after 6 months, has only 6 articles. I wouldn't want to redirect content to a site that's only going to get a portion of the exposure content would get here. [[User:Nicjansma|Nicjansma]] 23:47, 27 March 2009 (PDT)<br />
<br />
== ParserFunctions upgrade ==<br />
Hi Nic. With the upgrade to 1.15, the ParserFunctions extension also needs to be updated. You can download version 1.15.x here: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:ExtensionDistributor/ParserFunctions. Thanks so much for the help! --[[User:Ebakunin|Ebakunin]] 00:34, 2 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
: Updated! Let me know of any other extensions that need to be updated. [[User:Nicjansma|Nicjansma]] 03:28, 2 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Other extension suggestions ==<br />
I know you've been spending a lot of your time updating BTW, but you might want to consider adding these extensions as well:<br />
<br />
* [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage NewUserMessage] - will automatically leave a welcome message for new users. Should make [[User:Revanche|Revanche's]] life much easier :)<br />
* [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:CharInsert CharInsert] - helpful for writing [[KungsArmé]] or adding symbols<br />
* [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:ImageMap ImageMap] - could be used to create navigable IS maps.<br />
<br />
Also, if you turn on [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:$wgEnableMWSuggest search suggest] (which would be great), you might want to install the [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:TitleKey TitleKey] extension. It allows for case-insensitive suggestions.<br />
<br />
Nic, I really do appreciate all the work you put into the wiki. Thanks a lot. --[[User:Ebakunin|Ebakunin]] 05:20, 3 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Ebakunin, all of those links point to TitleKey. I also wanted to say somewhere (so might as well be here) that the site appears much more mobile-friendly now, which was unexpected. Second the appreciation, Nic --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 12:02, 3 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Links are fixed --[[User:Ebakunin|Ebakunin]] 13:12, 3 July 2009 (UTC) {{emoticon|:P}}<br />
:::ImageMap is too awesome for words. Can you imagine using the current maps to move to other planet articles? Come on! A lot of work (unless Nic's bot could automate it), but the result would be awesome. --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 13:31, 3 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::Totally awesome. However, we have a double-layered problem here:<br />
::::1) Many individual systems/planets/worlds on this wiki are misspelled or misplaced, which leads to:<br />
::::2) The world database requires a complete overhaul. I'd say it cannot be fixed. Which in turn teaches us that however we implement the ImageMap system, it absolutely requires an user-friendly maintenance option for updating it with newly found systems or correcting misplaced/misnamed systems. Trying to do that under the current structure requires an enormous amount of work on dozens of articles each time.<br />
::::3) And while we're at it, I would like (read: think we absolutely need to) create a new, unified template for Systems to differentiate System names from planet/moon/asteroid/habitat names with general system information (sun type, # of planets, politcial timeline); we also need sub-templates for individual planets and all the extra data available on their topography, population, special features, moons etc., and last but not least, a list of sources referring to the individual systems/planets. So really, a gargantuan project that, if ever completed, will send the IS Atlas packing. {{emoticon|:)}}<br />
::::Oh, and to be sure, I am actually serious about every word I just wrote. [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] 13:52, 3 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::Sorry for the delay in response, Frabby, but couldn't tolerate the idea of carrying on a conversation via an iphone while on vacation.<br />
:::::Are you suggesting a Project (with a capital P) for this? If so, I'm willing to assist is someone took up the leadership mantle, with guidance. If yes, please start a Project page (or re-focus the [[BattleTechWiki:Project Planets|current one]]) and I'll be along. I'm interested, because I know how involved you are in planetary research and I'd like to conduct a Factory Project, but feel it needs to follow a successful planetary one.--[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 14:06, 6 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::::I seem to be very good at starting huge projects that run out of steam long before they are finished. Will adress this one on the Projects Planets as you suggested (and my first point would be to make it into Project Systems), but this is queued in behind my essay about Canonicity in the BT universe... whenever I get going with that proper. [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] 21:07, 7 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::::Roger that. Feel free to reverse-poke me when you do. --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 22:04, 7 July 2009 (UTC) {{emoticon|;)}} <br />
<br />
'''Followup''':<br />
I've installed the following extensions:<br />
* [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage NewUserMessage]<br />
* [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:CharInsert CharInsert]<br />
* [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:ImageMap ImageMap]<br />
* [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SpecialUserScore SpecialUserScore]<br />
* [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:TitleKey TitleKey]<br />
<br />
I've also turned on $wgAutoSuggest so you should get auto-suggest for the search box. [[User:Nicjansma|Nicjansma]] 18:04, 8 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Thank you ''so'' much Nic! --[[User:Ebakunin|Ebakunin]] 18:07, 8 July 2009 (UTC) {{emoticon|:)}}<br />
<br />
::Seconded! --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 20:25, 8 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== On this day... ==<br />
When you look at the main wikipedia page you see the "On this day..." area. I wonder if something similar would be good for this wiki. Problem is that when I look at the timeline all entries just show the year and not an exact date but I guess exact dates are quiet rare to find.--[[User:BigDuke66|BigDuke66]] 13:28, 7 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:You hit the nail on the head &mdash; I doubt we have 365 exact dates to work with. In general, the Powers That Be just give us the year. --[[User:Ebakunin|Ebakunin]] 16:01, 7 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== "Interwiki" links for Sarna's downloads ==<br />
<br />
Just had an interesting thought: why not make interwiki links for such things as Sarna's various downloads section? While not really an interwiki link, it just seems right to have local files appear as if they're not sending someone off to an external site. If you deemed it worthwhile you could make a simple script to change all the current instances of "<nowiki>[http://sarna.net/files/</nowiki>''rest_of_path link_text'']" to "&#91;[Download:''rest_of_path''|''link text'']]" without flooding recent changes or the usage of 'bots with the 'bot flag set on their account. I was originally thinking that you might could set it up with 5 interwiki links (data:, designs:, docs:, media:, and programs:, but just plain "download:" would probably cause less confusion. --[[User:Xoid|Xoid]] 17:24, 19 July 2009 (UTC)</div>
Xoid
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/index.php?title=Talk:Jump_Point&diff=55055
Talk:Jump Point
2009-07-18T07:45:24Z
<p>Xoid: /* Remove cleanup template? */</p>
<hr />
<div>==Remove cleanup template?==<br />
Article reads clearly, no obvious errors. Remove cleanup? [[Special:Contributions/71.199.233.118|71.199.233.118]] 06:27, 18 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
:While at a glance it could probably stand to have more superfluous links and {{tl|citation needed}} templates, I'd say it's fine as is. Remember to be bold, young padawan. On second look there's one or two things not in-line with the Manual of Style, but it's hardly enough to warrant a {{tl|cleanup}} template. --[[User:Xoid|Xoid]] 06:37, 18 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
::{{emoticon|:)}} --<span style="font-family:Courier">[[User:Ebakunin|Ebakunin]]</span> <sup>([[User talk:Ebakunin|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Ebakunin|contribs]])</sup> 07:08, 18 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::While you're here… any idea why the Manual of Style insists upon "American this", "American that", yet advocates logical quotation over the American favoured "we'll mangle quotations by adding punctuation that may or may not alter the meaning"? --[[User:Xoid|Xoid]] 07:45, 18 July 2009 (UTC)</div>
Xoid
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/index.php?title=Jump_Point&diff=55054
Jump Point
2009-07-18T07:42:03Z
<p>Xoid: Copyediting to fit the Manual of Style.</p>
<hr />
<div>{{cleanup}}<br />
Jump Points refer to any point at which a [[JumpShip]] may initiate or resolve a "jump" through interstellar space. Traditionally, there are two jump points in a system - the zenith and the nadir of a star's gravity well (normally above and below the star's planetary system elliptic). There exist other points, called "pirate points", that a JumpShip can use. They are hard to find and dangerous to use, but in desperate situations they might be worth the risk.<br />
<br />
== Standard Jump Points ==<br />
A JumpShip must operate in zone where gravity levels are below a certain minimum. These zones are generally referred to as "jump points". The typical jump point is found at a minimum distance from the local star known as the "proximity limit", which is where gravity drops below the critical level for the hyperspace field of the Kearny-Fuchida drive to form properly. This zone is determined almost exclusively by the star of a system, which is far and away the largest gravity well in a star system (often by a factor of hundreds or thousands). <br />
<br />
The proximity limit is a sphere (but for small planetary distortions) typically several astronomical units (AU) in radius around the star, though stars larger than Sol may have proximity limits many hundreds of AU in radius. Sol's proximity limit is about 10.2 AU. (For comparison, the proximity limits of planets outside their star's proximity limit is typically a few million kilometers, or a few percent of an AU.) That distance is determined by the type of star and can range anywhere from 75 million kilometers (for a low-energy M9 star) to over 347 billion kilometers (for a high-energy B0 star).<br />
<br />
Beyond a proximity limit, all of space is a valid jump "point". It is quite possible for a JumpShip to jump into deep space light-years from any star system. Indeed, when imagining jump points, it might be best to consider most of space one giant, valid jump point but for tiny bubbles near stars and even more microscopic bubbles near planets.<br />
<br />
The closest proximity point to a planet would be on a direct line drawn between the star, the destination planet, and reaching to the proximity limit. However, such points are deep in the planetary plane of the system, the "plane of the ecliptic", where most planets, asteroids, and debris are found. Besides the damage risk, the multitude of small gravitational effects make navigation to such points difficult to calculate. As a result, they are little used but for military ships looking to shave a few hours off the transit to the planets (which typically requires days of travel at 1G, about 9 days in the case of Terra.)<br />
<br />
There are, however, proximity points that avoid all the mess of the ecliptic by being directly above and below the north and south poles of the star. These points are only slightly further from the inhabitable planet and are the furthest possible points on the proximity limit from the interference of the ecliptic. These two locations simplify navigation so much that they were used in the early 2100s by the Deimos Project for test jumps before mankind made interstellar jumps, and have remained the standard jump points for travel by Kearny-Fuchida drive ever since - hence, they are called the "Standard Jump Points". They are also often referred to as "zenith" and "nadir" jump points because of their locations above (zenith) and below (nadir) the star, with respect to the layout of the star system.<br />
<br />
These jump points minimize the influence of planetary gravity on jump calculations <ref>Strategic Operations, p. 134-135 </ref>. Indeed, jump calculations made from a zenith or nadir point are usually satisfactory for up to six months before planetary movement necessitates their recalculation.<br />
<br />
While JumpShips have fairly capable fusion rockets that would allow 0.1G of steady acceleration (vastly better than any real world rocket), they are generally left at the jump point. Instead, DropShips, giant shuttles that ride on the exterior of JumpShips and "drop" free at the destination, handle the multi-day flights to and from the destination planet. The fusion rockets of DropShips are so efficient that they can sustain 1G of flight for days and weeks on end. DropShips normally utilize this capability to accelerate at 1G toward the destination for half the flight, followed by a 180-degree rotation and braking at 1G for the remainder of the flight. Such a half-and-half allows DropShips to provide passengers with near-continuous Terra-normal gravity while covering vast distances in days. The 10.2 AU flight from Terra to its jump points would take 2-3 years by the fastest chemical-fueled probes of the 20th Century, but only 9 days for 1G DropShip (or about 28 days for 0.1G JumpShip).<br />
<br />
The energy output from the star (also based upon its type) determines how long a JumpShip can recharge its drive and can range anywhere from 151 hours (for a B0 star type) to 210 hours (for an M9 star type). The actual time required between jumps must also include the [[Jump Sail]] deployment and recovery times, typically about 100 minutes for deployment and 150-200 minutes for recovery. If the Jump Sail is damaged or cannot be deployed, the JumpShip's power plant can be used to recharge the fusion drive.<br />
<br />
With any power supply, the JumpShip's crew must take care to not charge the drive too rapidly. In most cases, charging the drive faster than 175 hours risks damaging the drive, with the risk increasing exponentially as time is decreased. A JumpShip's fusion engine or a recharge station can recharge the KF Drive in 24 hours, but that almost guarantees the KF drive will be damaged beyond operability. Because of the frequent use of fusion engines to "quick charge" the KF drive, it is sometimes not understood that fusion engines can recharge the KF drive safely. However, fusion engines can offer a safe charge if they take more than 176 hours to do so.<br />
<br />
== Pirate Jump Points ==<br />
There are some non-standard jump points that will allow a JumpShip to enter a system inside the proximity limit. As these "non-standard" points are much closer to the habitable planets of a star system, they are prime choices for raiders and pirates, leading to their designation as "pirate points".<br />
<br />
These jump points exist where the gravitational attraction of all planetary objects cancels each other out and overall gravitation is reduced below the critical limit for hyperspace field formation.<br />
<br />
While "pirate point" location can be estimated by secondary school physics (generally, pirate points inside the proximity limit will be close to a L1 Lagrange Point, which exists due to the cancellation of gravity between two bodies), such jump points are difficult for JumpShips to utilize because they are much smaller than the standard jump points and have much more complicated motions. Rather than only following the star like the Zenith and Nadir points, the pirate points at least also follow a planet, possibly a planet and moon, and are subject to gravity of other moving objects in the star system.<br />
<br />
This makes a navigator's job nightmarish when attempting to use a pirate point. Plotting the jump is impossible without computer aid. Missing the jump point is entirely possible, resulting in the JumpShip attempting to arrive in a region of space that is not a valid jump point (a fate discussed under [[Misjump]].)<br />
<br />
While the majority of pirate points are stable in the sense they exist continuously despite their mobility, a particular sub-class of pirate points known as "transient points" will periodically appear and disappear due to the influence of other bodies in the star system. Transient points are even more difficult to utilize.<br />
<br />
== Recharge Stations ==<br />
Some systems (particularly [[Successor State]] or regional capitals) provide recharge stations at one or possibly both jump points. These stations are capable of beaming stored energy by microwaves directly at a JumpShip's Jump Sail, allowing a firm and predictable 176-hour recharge. (For merchants visiting a red dwarf with a 200-hour recharge and facing 3 wasted shifts, this may be quite attractive.) If the JumpShip takes the extra time to dock with the station and uses a hard line connection rather than its Jump Sail, several vulnerable power systems can be bypassed and safe recharging can take place in as little as 120 hours.<br />
<br />
Unlike many examples of high technology, recharge stations survived the Succession Wars fairly well because they were useful to both invaders and defenders. Recharge stations were most often taken by special operations or threat rather than being destroyed.<br />
<br />
== References ==<br />
<references /></div>
Xoid
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/index.php?title=BattleTechWiki:Glossary_of_BattleTech_terms&diff=55053
BattleTechWiki:Glossary of BattleTech terms
2009-07-18T07:29:19Z
<p>Xoid: /* I */ Copyediting. Someone with more time to dig through a real dictionary can fix interdiction so that it's dumbed down enough for the masses without subtly subverting its meaning.</p>
<hr />
<div>See also: '''[[BattleTechWiki:Dictionary]]''' for terms related to this wiki.<br />
<br />
{{Template:CompactTOC}}<br />
<br />
== A ==<br />
; <span id="Abtakha">Abtakha</span> : A warrior captured but then accepted into his new Clan as a warrior.<br />
<br />
; <span id="Aff">Aff</span> : Clan abbreviation of "Affirmative". Generally used in place of "Yes".<br />
<br />
; <span id="Archon">Archon</span> : Political and military leader of the [[Lyran Commonwealth]]. For more information, refer to the [[Lyran Commonwealth Armed Forces]] article.<br />
<br />
; <span id="Archon-Designate">Archon-Designate</span> : Title granted to designated heir of [[Lyran Commonwealth]]. Example: [[Melissa Steiner]] was Archon-Designate until her mother's death in [[3039]].<br />
<br />
; <span id="Archon-Prince">Archon-Prince</span> : Political and military leader of the [[Federated Commonwealth]], a combination of the [[Lyran Commonwealth|Lyran]] position of [[Archon]] and the [[Federated Suns]] position of [[First Prince]]. For more information, refer to the [[Armed Forces of the Federated Commonwealth]] article.<br />
<br />
== B ==<br />
; <span id="Ballistic Weapons">Ballistic weapons</span>: Term for weapons which fire high-speed, unguided projectiles designed to inflict kinetic and/or explosive damage. Unlike [[Energy Weapons]], ballistic weapons produce far less heat, but are generally bulkier and dependent upon limited ammunition. These weapons fall broadly into three classes: [[Machine gun]]s, [[Gauss Rifle]]s, and [[Autocannon]]s.<br />
<br />
; <span id="Batchall">Batchall</span> : Ritual by which [[Clan]] warriors issue combat challenges. Though the type and phrasing of the challenge varies, most begin with the challenger identifying himself, stating the prize of the contest, and requesting that the defender identify the forces at his disposal. All batchalls are closed and final when the phrase "well bargained and done" is spoken by both members of the bid. <br />
<br />
; <span id="Battalion">Battalion</span> : A [[Inner Sphere]] military formation consisting of 3 Companies.<br />
<br />
; <span id="Binary">Binary</span> : A Clan military formation consisting of 2 Stars.<br />
<br />
; <span id="Brigade">Brigade</span> : A military formation typically consisting of 3 [[regiment]]s. This formation was used by the [[SLDF]], but is not longer used by most Inner Sphere militaries. <br />
<br />
== C ==<br />
; Canister Born : Derisive Clan slang for the artificial breeding element of the eugenic program or the [[Trueborn]] warriors that result from that process. Occasionally shortened to Canister.<br />
<br />
; Caste : Primary division within Clan society, which is rigidly divided into five castes in order of importance: Warrior, Scientist, Merchant, Technician, and Laborer. Each caste has many sub-castes, which are based on specialties within a professional field. A sixth, unofficial caste, the Bandit or Dark Caste, exists outside Clan society.<br />
<br />
; <span id="Captain-General">Captain-General</span> : The head of state of the [[Free Worlds League]].<br />
<br />
; <span id="Chalcas">Chalcas</span> : Clan term referring to persons or beliefs which challenge the Clans rigid caste system.<br />
<br />
; <span id="Chancellor">Chancellor</span> : The chief of state of the [[Capellan Confederation]].<br />
<br />
; <span id="Cho-sho">''Cho-sho''</span> : A commissioned army and naval rank within the [[Draconis Combine Mustered Soldiery]]; equivalent to Lieutenant.<br />
<br />
; <span id="Chu-i">''Chu-i''</span> : A commissioned naval rank within the [[Draconis Combine Mustered Soldiery]]; equivalent to Captain.<br />
<br />
; <span id="Chu-sa">''Chu-sa''</span> : A commissioned army rank within the [[Draconis Combine Mustered Soldiery]]; equivalent to Lieutenant-Colonel.<br />
<br />
; <span id="Cluster">Cluster</span> : A Clan military formation consisting of 4-5 Binaries or Trinaries.<br />
<br />
; Combat Loss Grouping : The principle that a group of 'Mechs (or other vehicles) engaged in combat will accumulate damage over time, leading to a point where several or all of the group will succumb to damage at the same time. Can also be used to describe the time a unit sustains enough losses that it is no longer a viable fighting force.<br />
<br />
; Commonality : Large districts which originally consisted of the signatory-states forming the [[Capellan Confederation]].<br />
<br />
; <span id="Company">Company</span> : A military unit designation that, for [[BattleMech]] units, usually consists of three [[Dictionary#L|Lances]]. Companies are usually commanded by a Major or a Captain (or their equivalent).<br />
<br />
; <span id="Coordinator">Coordinator</span> : The Chief of State of the [[Draconis Combine]]; also, the head of the [[Kurita]] family.<br />
<br />
; <span id="Cutdown">Cutdown</span> : Clan term referring to the minimum force necessary to win a trial for which there has been bidding. Bidders who can push their opponent into making a bid below the cutdown are considered clever, while those who win with a force smaller than the cutdown are greatly honored.<br />
<br />
== D ==<br />
; <span id="Dai-i">''Dai-i''</span> : A commissioned naval rank within the [[Draconis Combine Mustered Soldiery]]; equivalent to that of Lieutenant-Commander.<br />
<br />
; <span id="Director-General">''Director-General''</span> : The head of state of the [[Terran Hegemony]].<br />
<br />
== E ==<br />
; <span id="Energy Weapons">Energy Weapons</span> : Term for weapons which deal damage by directing a concentrated beam of particles or radiation against a target. Unlike [[Ballistic Weapons]], energy weapons are extremely light and compact and when linked a [[Fusion Engine|fusion reactor]] are ammunition free, but produce very large amounts of waste heat. These weapons fall broadly into two classes: [[Laser]]s and [[PPC]]s.<br />
<br />
== F ==<br />
; <span id="First Prince">First Prince</span> : The leader of the [[Federated Suns]] and Commander in Chief of the [[Armed Forces of the Federated Suns]].<br />
<br />
; <span id="Force Commander">Force Commander</span> : Associated with [[Free Worlds League]] Rank Structure, which is equal to the rank of Major in regular militaries.<ref>[[Handbook House Marik]] - pg 122 Rank listings</ref><br />
<br />
== G ==<br />
; <span id="Galaxy">Galaxy</span> : A Clan military formation consisting of 3-5 Clusters, roughly equivalent toan SLDF Brigade or a ComStar Army.<br />
<br />
; <span id="Genetic Repository">Genetic Respository</span> : A Clan facility designed store, maintain and create new Clan Warriors using the DNA of founding founders & their Bloodname successors.<br />
<br />
== H ==<br />
; <span id="Hauptmann">Hauptmann</span> : A commissioned army rank within the [[Lyran Alliance Armed Forces]]; equivalent to Captain. For more information, please refer to the [[Lyran Commonwealth Armed Forces]] article.<br />
<br />
; <span id="Hauptmann-General">Hauptmann-General</span> : A commissioned army rank within the [[Lyran Alliance Armed Forces]]; equivalent to Lieutenant-General. For more information, please refer to the [[Lyran Commonwealth Armed Forces]] article.<br />
<br />
; <span id="Hauptmann-Kommandant">Hauptmann-Kommandant</span> : A commissioned army rank within the [[Lyran Alliance Armed Forces]]; equivalent to Lieutenant-Colonel. For more information, please refer to the [[Lyran Commonwealth Armed Forces]] article.<br />
<br />
; HeavyMetal Aero : the official [[CBT]] software for the design of [[AeroSpace Fighter]]s, [[DropShip]]s, [[JumpShip]]s, [[WarShip]]s, space stations, monitors & conventional (combat) fighters.<br />
<br />
; HeavyMetal Battle Armor : the official [[CBT]] software for the design of [[Battle Armor]].<br />
<br />
; HeavyMetal Lite : the official [[CBT]] software for [[ProtoMech]] design, as well as printouts for [[Battle Armor]] and infantry platoon designs.<br />
<br />
; HeavyMetal Plus : a bundle of three official [[CBT]] software programs: [[HeavyMetal Pro]], [[HeavyMetal Aero]] and [[HeavyMetal Vee]].<br />
<br />
; HeavyMetal Pro : the official [[CBT]] software for [['Mech]] design.<br />
<br />
; HeavyMetal Vee : the official [[CBT]] software for designing combat vehicles.<br />
<br />
; <span id="Hegira">Hegira</span> : Honorable withdrawal from battle granted by a Clan warrior to a defeated enemy. Hegira allows the opponent to withdraw honorably from the field without further combat or cost. <br />
<br />
; <span id="Heir-apparent">Heir-apparent</span> : Designated person to succeed a person whom is the head of state, usually a person of noblity.<br />
<br />
; High Council : a group of both democratic, hereditary, and other officials chosen by the leadership of the member-worlds of the [[Federated Suns]] who officially governed the nation.<br />
<br />
; House of Scions : a gathering of the Capellan nobility.<br />
<br />
== I ==<br />
<br />
; ICE : Acrnoym for '''I'''nternal '''C'''ombustion '''E'''ngine. Roughly identical to real world internal combustion engines, ICE don't provide the power of [[Fusion Engine]]s, but are considerably simpler and cheaper to manufacture and maintain. See the [[Internal Combustion Engine]] page for more information.<br />
<br />
; Inferno Missile : A [[short-range missile]] with a proximity fuse that sprays burning white phosphorous or napalm-like fuel over a target, usually 'Mechs, in an attempt to increase their operating temperature and force a reactor shutdown. Rarely carried in 'Mech ammo bays as pilots generally are afraid that an ammo explosion will engulf their 'Mech in flames, shut down their reactor, and fry them in the cockpit. An inferno missile was used by [[Grayson Carlyle|Grayson "Death" Carlyle]] to force the surrender of [[Lori Kalmar|Lori Kalmar's]] [[Locust]] in the Battle of Sarghad on [[Trell I]] during a raid by commandos from House [[Kurita]]. The fight for [[Trell I]] was depicted in [[William H. Keith, Jr.]]'s novel ''[[Decision at Thunder Rift]]''.<br />
<br />
; <span id="Interdiction">Interdiction</span> : Active blocking of passage vessels or communications. A prominent example is when Comstar interdicted the [[Federated Suns|Federated Suns']] communications during the Fourth Succession War.<br />
<br />
; <span id="Iron Womb">Iron Womb</span> : Clan device used conceive artificially conceived children. These devices are usually found in [[Clans#Genetic_Respositories|genetic depositories]].<br />
<br />
; <span id="Isorla">Isorla</span> : The spoils of battle, including bondsmen, claimed by victorious Clan warriors.<br />
<br />
== J ==<br />
; Jump : Abbreviation of Hyperspace Jump.<br />
<br />
; Jump Infantry : Type of infantry unit equipped with jet packs, greatly increasing maneuverability.<br />
<br />
<br />
== K ==<br />
<br />
; <span id="Knight-Errant">Knight-Errant</span> : A entry level rank of [[Republic_of_the_Sphere#Knights|Knight]] in the service [[The Republic of the Sphere]]. There is no equivalent to this rank. For information see article in Republic of the Sphere main article.<br />
<br />
; <span id="Kommandant">Kommandant</span> : A commissioned army rank within the [[Lyran Alliance Armed Forces]]; equivalent to Major. For more information, please refer to the [[Lyran Commonwealth Armed Forces]] article.<br />
<br />
; <span id="Kommandant-General">Kommandant-General</span> : A commissioned army rank within the [[Lyran Alliance Armed Forces]]; equivalent to Major-General. For more information, please refer to the [[Lyran Commonwealth Armed Forces]] article.<br />
<br />
== L ==<br />
; <span id="Lance">Lance</span> : Designation given to the smallest organizational collection of [[BattleMech|BattleMechs]], [[Aerospace Fighter|Aerospace Fighters]], or armor units. It is the equivalent of a [[Dictionary#S|Squad]] of infantry. 'Mech lances consist of four BattleMechs and are categorized based upon the average weight of the 'Mechs that comprise it (Light, Medium, Heavy, Assault). Aerospace lances consist of two aerospace fighters and are similarly categorized by weight.<br />
<br />
; <span id="Laser Weapons">Laser</span>: Acronym for "'''L'''ight '''A'''mplification by '''S'''timulated '''E'''mission of '''R'''adiation", a [[laser]] is a device that focuses an amplified beam of light on a small surface area. Despite generating a high degree of waste heat, laser weapons are a compact and light [[Dictionary#E|energy weapon]] type and are available in human, BattleMech and [[WarShip]] sizes. At BattleMech scales, the three common classes are [[Small Laser|small]], [[Medium Laser|medium]] and [[large laser]]s, with extended range and rapid pulse firing variants also availble.<br />
<br />
; <span id="LBX Autocannon">LBX Autocannon</span>: An autocannon variant that is capable of firing a fragmenting, shotgun type, round in addition to standard AC rounds.<br />
<br />
; <span id="Level I">Level I</span>: The smallest [[ComStar]] and [[Word of Blake]] military formation, consisting of either a single BattleMech, armored vehicle or aerospace fighter, or single infantry squad.<br />
<br />
; <span id="Level II">Level II</span>: A [[ComStar]]/[[Word of Blake]] military formation consisting of six Level I units, referred to as a demi-company.<br />
<br />
; <span id="Level III">Level III</span>: A [[ComStar]]/[[Word of Blake]] military formation consisting of six Level II units, referred to as a battalion.<br />
<br />
; <span id="Level IV">Level IV</span>: A [[ComStar]]/[[Word of Blake]] military formation consisting of six Level III units, referred to as a division.<br />
<br />
; <span id="Level V">Level V</span>: A [[ComStar]]/[[Word of Blake]] military formation consisting of six Level IV units, referred to as an army. Mostly an administrative grouping for regional deployment, they were deployed as field units only at the [[Battle of Tukayyid]].<br />
<br />
== M ==<br />
<br />
; <span id="Melee Weapons">Melee Weapons</span>: Term for [[BattleMech]] scale melee weapons such as [[Hatchet]]s and [[Sword]]s. While nominally armed with ranged weaponry, the technological decline of the [[Succession Wars]] led to the development of specialized BattleMech scale melee weapons in response to the impromptu battlefield debris for physical attacks. While many deride melee weapons as a waste of tonnage, [[Clans]] considering them highly dishonorable, their ability to inflict increased damage without a heat cost has led to appear both in and outside the arenas of [[Solaris VII]].<br />
<br />
; <span id="Minister General">Minister-General</span>: (New) Free World League political title created by [[Nikol Marik]] in [[3138]], whom duties include minister the people of the League; to ensure people of the league remain free. <ref>’’[[To Ride the Chimera]]’’, pg. 221 – Nikol explanation on her-self made title.</ref> The MG also sits over FWL Parliament while its in session. Also, handles domestic affairs of the League. <ref>’’[[To Ride the Chimera]]’’, pg. 314 – Thaddeus Marik explains MG’s primary responsibility.</ref> Acting as primary aide to the [[Captain-General]].<br />
<br />
; <span id="Monocycle">Monocycle</span>: Term for a single wheeled variation of the motorcycle.<br />
<br />
== N ==<br />
; <span id="Neg">Neg</span> : Clan abbreviation of "Negative".<br />
<br />
; <span id="Nova">Nova</span> : a Clan military formation consisting of two mixed Stars (a mixture of different types of points, a.k.a. two BattleMechs, two VTOLs, five Elementals, and two tanks.)<br />
<br />
== O ==<br />
; <span id="Oathmaster">Oathmaster</span> : Clan name for a person whom is the master of a any particular clan ceremony. This can be a temporary position for small ceremonies or events such as trials or be permanent position who answers to Khan of a Clan. Oathmaster are also responsible to know rules & laws he/she must use to conduct or judge in various cermonies. This depending on size or scope of the event.<br />
<br />
== P ==<br />
; PBI : A MechWarrior's acronym for "Poor Bloody [[Infantry]]", those forced to fight without a 'Mech or other vehicle. Often crushed underfoot, toasted with Flamers, or riddled with Machine Gun bullets by amused pilots; PBI's fight back with shoulder-launched SRMs, Inferno missiles, hand Flamers, and satchel charges.<br />
<br />
; <span id="Platoon">Platoon</span> : An Inner Sphere military formation, a platoon is the infantry eqivilant of the BattleMech/Combat Vehicle Lance, and can consist of anywhere between eight and 28 men depending on infantry type.<br />
<br />
; <span id="Point">Point</span> : The smallest Clan military formation, consisting either of one BattleMech, two Land Vehicles or Aerospace Fighters, five Battle Armored Infantry or ProtoMechs, or twenty-five conventional infantry. Commanded by a Point Commander.<br />
<br />
; <span id="Point Commander">Point Commander</span> : A Clan rank, given to the commander of a Point.<br />
<br />
; Prefectorate : officially, the law-making body of the [[Capellan Confederation]]; made up of the six leaders of the Capellan member-states, which generally includes the current [[Dictionary#C|Chancellor]].<br />
<br />
; Prefecture : in the [[Capellan Confederation]], small collections of planets within a commonality, each ruled by an appointed administrator.<br />
<br />
; Privy Council : group of the highest advisors to the [[First Prince]] of the [[Federated Suns]] that is extremely important in the running of the day-to-day affairs of the state.<br />
<br />
; <span id="Provisional Galaxy">Provisional Galaxy</span> : A 2nd-Line or reserve Clan formation consisting mainly of 2nd-line BattleMechs and other 2nd-line equipment. Provisional Galaxies are used to garrison and defend Clan worlds.<br />
<br />
== Q ==<br />
<br />
; Quiaff : Clan word used at the end of a question in which an affirmative response is expected.<br />
<br />
; Quineg : Clan word used at the end of a question in which a negative response is expected.<br />
<br />
== R ==<br />
<br />
; <span id="Regimental Combat Team">Regimental Combat Team</span> : Commanded by a general, an RCT is combined-arms formation consisting of multiple combat unit types designed to work in concert. The standard modern RCT, introduced to the Succession Wars by the Federated Suns military, consists of one BattleMech regiment, three regiments of combat vehicles, five infantry regiments, one artillery battalion and two AeroSpace Fighter wings.<br />
<br />
; Recharge station : a space station, generally located at a zenith or nadir point within a solar system, where [[JumpShip]]s and [[WarShip]]s can recharge their jump drives.<br />
<br />
; Rede : [[Clan]] honor-bound promise. Breaking a rede may be punishable by death. <br />
<br />
; Remembrance, The : Ongoing heroic saga detailing Clan history from the time of the [[Operation Exodus|Exodus]] to the present day. Each Clan has a slightly different version reflecting their own opinions and experiences, and all Clan warriors can quote whole verses of this marvelous epic from memory. See the [[Remembrance]] page for more information.<br />
<br />
; <span id="Ristar">Ristar</span> : Clan compound word for "rising star", referring to a particularly gifted warrior on his or her way to high position.<br />
<br />
; <span id="Rite of the Vision">Rite of the Vision</span> : [[Clan Nova Cat]] ritual which a warrior meditates before a large fire to bring on a vision of that person's future. The ritual uses objects known as a ''Vineer'' to bring about this vision. The warrior also does not sleep for over 24 hours and fasts.<br />
<br />
; Rotary Autocannon : A variant [[Autocannon]] which combines multiple small caliber [[Ultra Autocannon]]s into a single gatling gun style weapon. These weapons are capable of firing six times faster than standard autocannons, but at the cost of even great chance of jamming than the Ultra series. These are only available in the [[Rotary AC/2]] and [[Rotary AC/5]] forms.<br />
<br />
; RPG : acronym for '''Role Playing Game'''.<br />
<br />
; Rules Expansion: a secondary line of rulesets, usually intended to develop upon the primary rulesets for one or more Classic BattleTech games (ex: ''[[Combat Operations]]'').<br />
<br />
== S ==<br />
; <span id="Scrapper">''Scrapper''</span>: A post-Jihad [[Solaris VII]] infantry warrior. Which known part of named teams or can be solo warriors.<br />
<br />
; <span id="Sho-i">''Sho-i''</span> : A commissioned naval rank within the [[Draconis Combine Mustered Soldiery]]; equivalent to Ensign.<br />
<br />
; <span id="Sho-sa">''Sho-sa''</span> : A commissioned army or naval rank within the [[Draconis Combine Mustered Soldiery]]; equivalent Major or Commander, respectively.<br />
<br />
; <span id="Sho-sho">''Sho-sho''</span> : A commissioned army rank within the [[Draconis Combine Mustered Soldiery]]; equivalent to Brigadier-General.<br />
<br />
; <span id="Squadron">Squadron</span> : A Inner Sphere military formation, a squadron most commonly refers to three lances or flights of AeroSpace Fighters, making it the fighter equivalent of a ground force Company.<br />
<br />
; <span id="Star">Star</span> : a Clan military formation consisting of five points.<br />
<br />
; Stravag : a Clan epithet favored by members of the Warrior Caste, loosely translated as "freeborn."<br />
<br />
; <span id="Supernova">Supernova</span> : a Clan military formation consisting of up to three Mixed Stars (a mixture of different types of points, a.k.a. two BattleMechs, two V.T.O.L.S., five Elementals, and two tanks.)<br />
<br />
== T ==<br />
; <span id="Tai-i">''Tai-i''</span> : A commissioned army rank within the [[Draconis Combine Mustered Soldiery]]; equivalent to Captain.<br />
<br />
; <span id="Tai-sa">''Tai-sa''</span> : A commissioned army and naval rank within the [[Draconis Combine Mustered Soldiery]]; equivalent to Colonel or Captain, respectively.<br />
<br />
; <span id="Tai-sho">''Tai-sho''</span> : A commissioned army and naval rank within the [[Draconis Combine Mustered Soldiery]]; equivalent to General or Admiral, respectively.<br />
<br />
; <span id="Tai-shu">''Tai-shu''</span> : More a position than an actual rank within the [[Draconis Combine Mustered Soldiery]]; a Tai-shu or Warlord is the commander of one Combine's Military Districts, and is in command of all military forces in the district as well as overall commanding officer of its Military District Regulars.<br />
<br />
; <span id="Terra Synchronized Time">''Terra Synchronized Time''</span> : Alson known as (TST) – This related to the time on any world to traditional, twenty-four hour clock set to the rise and the fall of local sun(s). Which divides the any world’s time into standard hours & days. .<ref>[[Warrior: En Garde]] pg. 22 – Brief planetary description</ref><br />
<br />
; <span id="Thuggee">''Thuggee''</span> : Pre-starflight death cult of assassins, which were secret associate devoted Hindu death goddess named Kali. The cult was known to numerous enclaves throughout the Inner Sphere by 31st Century. They became more public, in their devotion to Romano & Kali Liao in [[31st Century]].<ref>[[Warrior: Riposte]] page 125 - [[Quintus Allard]] tells of what he knows of Thuggee in [[3028]].</ref> <br />
<br />
<br />
== V ==<br />
<br />
; <span id="Vineer">''Vineer''</span> : A [[Clan Nova Cat]] name for a object from a warrior's past which is used for their Clan's [[Rite of the Vision]]. The object is usually a fragment of the person's life in which they throw into a fire to bring about a vision of warrior's future.<ref>''Path of Glory'' pg. 110-112: Zane throws his ''vineer'' into fire.</ref><br />
<br />
== W ==<br />
<br />
; <span id="Warden-General">Warden-General</span>: (New) Free World League title for assigned person whom oversee FWL’s military.<ref>’’[[To Ride the Chimera]]’’, pg. 314 – Thaddeus Marik explains Minister-General & Warden-General’s primary responsibilities.</ref><br />
<br />
==References==<br />
<references/></div>
Xoid
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/index.php?title=User_talk:Ebakunin&diff=55048
User talk:Ebakunin
2009-07-18T06:44:21Z
<p>Xoid: /* -moz-border-radius-topleft */ new section</p>
<hr />
<div>* '''[[User talk:Ebakunin/Archive|Talk Archive]]'''<br />
<br />
<br />
== Liberator ==<br />
I took the liberty (no pun intended) of changing your last edit to italics, which is what I presume you had intended (you used double quotes, which are not read by mediawiki the same way as two single quotes). If I presumed wrong, please let me know. --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 11:44, 18 June 2009 (PDT)<br />
<br />
:I thought the BT convention is to put named ships in quotes, while ship classes are put in italics (much like 'Mechs). Am I wrong here? Thanks. --[[User:Ebakunin|Ebakunin]] 11:55, 18 June 2009 (PDT)<br />
<br />
::Let me say that I'm uncertain. If there is a policy or stated convention here, please point me in that direction. However, based on my own interest in things naval (I'm a naval officer), I lean towards italicizing ship names. Scaletail and I generally lean towards the adoption of Wikipedia policies on areas where we haven't yet adopted a similar policy (especially in regards to references and copyediting). I don't have the time just now to find & check their policy, but [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Raven_(MHC-61) this article] tells me they lean towards italicizing. Quotes just seem to be an odd way of highlighting a ship's name. --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 12:02, 18 June 2009 (PDT)<br />
<br />
:::You're absolutely right. I was basing quotes vs. italics on CBL's conventions, which I was mistaken about. I took a look at ''[[Jihad Secrets: The Blake Documents]]'' where the ''Invincible'' WarShip is in italics. My bad. Won't happen again. Thanks for pointing out the problem --[[User:Ebakunin|Ebakunin]] 12:17, 18 June 2009 (PDT) {{emoticon|:P}}<br />
::::No, not a problem. You've actually given me another reason to write a Manual of Style for the wiki. This is a good one. --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 13:05, 18 June 2009 (PDT)<br />
<br />
== Wiki experience ==<br />
Hey, Ebakunin. It's clear to me that MediaWiki doesn't scare you. What kind of experience do you have with it?<br />
--[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 12:08, 3 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Dash or Code ==<br />
[[User:Xoid|Xoid]] once tried to explain this to me, but it went over my head. Why do you prefer to use the code <nowiki>&ndash;</nowiki>, instead of a dash? --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 03:41, 7 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
:And why didn't nowiki not work here? --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 03:41, 7 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:: '''Usage:'''<br />
::There's three type of dash [[w:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_XML_and_HTML_character_entity_references|entities]] (letter-like symbols), each slightly longer than the previous:<br />
<pre><br />
- (standard hyphen)<br />
– (&amp;ndash;)<br />
— (&amp;mdash;)<br />
</pre><br />
<br />
::In general, the short dash is used for hyphenated words, the long dash ("mdash") for connecting sentence fragments, and the "ndash" for everything else. For example:<br />
<br />
::* (standard hyphen) "Teaching a pre-teen to drive is a bad idea."<br />
::* (&amp;ndash;) George Washington, February 22, 1732 – December 14, 1799<br />
::* (&amp;mdash;) "Sarah, no matter what he said—and I know he said a lot—I promise you they were all lies."<br />
<br />
::'''Browser interpretation:'''<br />
::Here's where it gets complicated. A "[[w:Character (computing)|character]]" is basically a number, letter, or entity the can fit in one letter space. For example, "K" and "Æ" are characters since they take up one space, but "AE" is not. Since there are a ''lot'' of characters (©, ¥, ñ, etc.) and a limited number of keys on the keyboard, each character has an HTML character entity reference so the browser knows what to display. It has to be something weird so no one will accidentally type it and get confused, which is why &amp;ndash; gives you – and &amp;mdash; gives you —.<br />
<br />
::All the entities I've mentioned are perfectly valid letters/symbols that just don't show up on an American English keyboard. Therefore they are ''not'' HTML tags like &lt;div&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt; won't work on them.<br />
<br />
::Because they are entities, you can also cut-and-paste them just like any other letter. They're not readily available on my keyboard, though, which is why I type them out the long way. If BTW had a symbol insert list like Wikipedia offers (the one that lets you insert ©, ¥, ñ, etc.) I would use it instead.<br />
<br />
::That turned out to be a rather long winded response, but I hope it helped. {{emoticon|:)}} --<span style="font-family:Courier">[[User:Ebakunin|Ebakunin]]</span> <sup>([[User talk:Ebakunin|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Ebakunin|contribs]])</sup> 04:52, 7 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::NO! That absolutely helped. It also assuaged my guilt over not using the code, since I knew I could use it incorrectly. i see that is not the case, but that I'm free to use regular dashes. Thanks, Ebakunin. I appreciate it. --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 20:33, 7 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Timeline tags ==<br />
Having seen the awesome job you did on the yearlist, here's an idea I had: On the Starwars wiki, there is one or more era symbol(s) in each article (where appropriate), denoting during which eras a certain vehicle was used or a certain event occurred. I liked this concept, but totally lack the skills to implement something similar on BTW. You, on the other hand, seem quite skilled in this respect... [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] 21:11, 7 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:I know what you're referring to, but unfortunately the era symbols use JavaScript for correct positioning. Since I don't have access to BTW's JavaScript I can't do the work. Sorry. --[[User:Ebakunin|Ebakunin]] 21:14, 7 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Is it a one time code addition or something that would need constant access? --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 22:08, 7 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::To be honest, it would require admin status, as I would need to modify the [[Special:AllMessages|system messages]] page. --[[User:Ebakunin|Ebakunin]] 22:38, 7 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Wannabe_kate code ==<br />
Ebakunin, do you feel the editcounter code [http://toolserver.org/~interiot/cgi-bin/Tool1/wannabe_kate?code on this site] can be used here, if installed? --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 01:06, 8 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Bump. I was hoping you could see if this is something we could have installed on our server, rather than go thru Interiot's. The tool was very informative (IMO) and I'd love to be able to use it again. Thanks. --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 04:11, 11 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Would you first go [[w:WikiProject_edit_counters#MediaWiki_features_and_extensions|here]] and let me know which editcounter you prefer. Afterward, I'll need to talk with Nic about adding the tool to the site. He will need to do the dirty work. --[[User:Ebakunin|Ebakunin]] 05:34, 11 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::Technically, its [http://toolserver.org/~interiot/cgi-bin/count_edits this one], but he offers [http://toolserver.org/~interiot/cgi-bin/Tool1/wannabe_kate?code this code] from [http://toolserver.org/~interiot/cgi-bin/Tool1/wannabe_kate this page]. I'm not even certain the code to run the editcounter is available, but maybe what I provided you only links into the (possibly defunct) master server. --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 06:25, 11 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Banner Placement ==<br />
Ebakunin, please find an appropriate place to put this on your [[User:Ebakunin|userpage]]: <br><br />
[[File:BTW Admin.jpg]]<br><br />
--[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 05:03, 9 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Congratulations, and Welcome to the Admin team! [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] 10:16, 10 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Edittools==<br />
I'm constantly forgetting how to use the <references/> code and then having to look up how I used it in the past. How would I make use of your editool? --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 18:39, 9 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
:What code? --[[User:Ebakunin|Ebakunin]] 18:40, 9 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
::[[MediaWiki:Edittools]]. Maybe I've mis-understood the intent of this page. --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 20:21, 9 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::Edit any page and look under the text box. You'll see the results. --[[User:Ebakunin|Ebakunin]] 20:39, 9 July 2009 (UTC) {{emoticon|:)}}<br />
::::So, how do you like your steaks? Certain cut? Expensive? Baked Alaska with that? Seriously...thank you!--[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 20:44, 9 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Template:Cite ==<br />
<br />
Ebakunin, do you think you might be able to get the cite tag to work properly? --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 19:25, 11 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:I'm not sure what you're referring to. --[[User:Ebakunin|Ebakunin]] 23:42, 11 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Belay my last. I figured out what I wanted to get done. --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 00:47, 12 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== blanking pages ==<br />
<br />
I'm going to keep blanking pages. I can't be banned because I'm not logged on.<br />
<br />
:Hi. Would you please be more specific as to what's going on. I logged out and then edited [[Kell Hound Pilot (CCG - Limited)]] without any issues. I'm unsure how to recreate the problem you encountered. Thanks. --<span style="font-family=Courier">[[User:Ebakunin|Ebakunin]]</span> <sup>([[User talk:Ebakunin|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Ebakunin|contribs]])</sup> 20:36, 16 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Watchout ==<br />
<br />
I'm catching up with you on editcounts. Today i gained 3 to your 1 addition. Only 84 more to go (which equates to about 4,200 more, by that counter's function). Be afraid, be very afraid. :P--[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 03:49, 17 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Ebakunin sig ==<br />
Re: {{tl|Ebakunin sig}}, I've corrected the timestamps and removed the four calls to it. I guess this means that it is no longer required? (Seems as if you decided against using it.) --[[User:Xoid|Xoid]] 13:33, 17 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Yeah, I didn't realize you could customize your signature using wikicode. I need to double back and replicate the template results before deleting the template, otherwise all the signatures will disappear. --<span style="font-family:Courier">[[User:Ebakunin|Ebakunin]]</span> <sup>([[User talk:Ebakunin|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Ebakunin|contribs]])</sup> 17:48, 17 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
::Actually, that's what I did, but it seems you already figured that out. :D<br />
::It sort of surprised me really, most people who use vanity templates store them in the User namespace. e.g., <code><nowiki>{{User:Ebakunin/sig}}</nowiki></code>. I used to be a template sigger myself but I changed my ways after seeing a wiki go down in flames when it was vandalised. That, and I finally realised that each signature template tends to be a real strain on the server. --[[User:Xoid|Xoid]] 02:15, 18 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
:BTW, nice to finally meet you {{emoticon|:)}} --<span style="font-family:Courier">[[User:Ebakunin|Ebakunin]]</span> <sup>([[User talk:Ebakunin|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Ebakunin|contribs]])</sup> 17:48, 17 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
::And it's nice to be back. Ah, nostalgia. :P --[[User:Xoid|Xoid]] 02:15, 18 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== 25 Years of Art & Fiction ==<br />
<br />
You put a specific date on the moratorium. Does that mean the print edition is for sale already?--[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 23:37, 17 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Nope, my mistake. Fixing it now. --<span style="font-family:Courier">[[User:Ebakunin|Ebakunin]]</span> <sup>([[User talk:Ebakunin|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Ebakunin|contribs]])</sup> 23:42, 17 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Roger, thanks. My hopes are dashed so easily.--[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 23:46, 17 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== -moz-border-radius-topleft ==<br />
<br />
One reason I always shied away from that property is because of its non-universal support. Be careful that in freeing the web from the tyranny of IE's non-compliance with standards that we don't…yada, yada. You get the drift.<br />
<br />
That reminds me, would I be imposing upon you if I asked for the horizontal ellipsis to be added to that JavaScript-based monstrosity of yours down there? *points at the "'''Insert a character:'''" thingamajig at the bottom of his screen*--[[User:Xoid|Xoid]] 06:44, 18 July 2009 (UTC)</div>
Xoid
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/index.php?title=Talk:Jump_Point&diff=55046
Talk:Jump Point
2009-07-18T06:37:22Z
<p>Xoid: I get the feeling I'm coming off as snarky. The internet desperately needs some way to convey tone of voice without resorting to emoticons.</p>
<hr />
<div>==Remove cleanup template?==<br />
Article reads clearly, no obvious errors. Remove cleanup? [[Special:Contributions/71.199.233.118|71.199.233.118]] 06:27, 18 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
:While at a glance it could probably stand to have more superfluous links and {{tl|citation needed}} templates, I'd say it's fine as is. Remember to be bold, young padawan. On second look there's one or two things not in-line with the Manual of Style, but it's hardly enough to warrant a {{tl|cleanup}} template. --[[User:Xoid|Xoid]] 06:37, 18 July 2009 (UTC)</div>
Xoid
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/index.php?title=User:Xoid/contactinfo&diff=55012
User:Xoid/contactinfo
2009-07-18T02:24:58Z
<p>Xoid: Additional IM account added.</p>
<hr />
<div><noinclude>{{User:Xoid/nav}}</noinclude><br />
<div style="background-color: Thistle; border: 2px solid #C2ABC2; margin-right: 0.45em; padding: .45em; text-align: center; width: 350px"><br />
<div style="background-color: #F0D4F0; border: inherit; font-size: larger; padding: inherit">Contact Information</div><br />
{| align="center" border="1" style="background-color: #F0D4F0; border: inherit; border-collapse: collapse; margin-top: .45em; width: 100%"<br />
!colspan="2"|Email<br />
|-<br />
|Primary:<br />
|boron.carbide (AT) gmail (DOT) com<br />
|-<br />
|Legacy:<br />
|xoid (AT) hotmail (DOT) com<br />
|-<br />
!colspan="2"|Instant Messengers<br />
|-<br />
|AIM:<br />
|pestilentialtide<br />
|-<br />
|gTalk:<br />
|boron.carbide (AT) gmail (DOT) com<br />
|-<br />
|MSN:<br />
|xoid (AT) hotmail (DOT) com<br />
|-<br />
|YIM:<br />
|boron.carbide<br />
|}<br />
</div></div>
Xoid
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/index.php?title=User_talk:Ebakunin&diff=55011
User talk:Ebakunin
2009-07-18T02:15:35Z
<p>Xoid: /* Ebakunin sig */ Response + belated hello.</p>
<hr />
<div>* '''[[User talk:Ebakunin/Archive|Talk Archive]]'''<br />
<br />
<br />
== Liberator ==<br />
I took the liberty (no pun intended) of changing your last edit to italics, which is what I presume you had intended (you used double quotes, which are not read by mediawiki the same way as two single quotes). If I presumed wrong, please let me know. --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 11:44, 18 June 2009 (PDT)<br />
<br />
:I thought the BT convention is to put named ships in quotes, while ship classes are put in italics (much like 'Mechs). Am I wrong here? Thanks. --[[User:Ebakunin|Ebakunin]] 11:55, 18 June 2009 (PDT)<br />
<br />
::Let me say that I'm uncertain. If there is a policy or stated convention here, please point me in that direction. However, based on my own interest in things naval (I'm a naval officer), I lean towards italicizing ship names. Scaletail and I generally lean towards the adoption of Wikipedia policies on areas where we haven't yet adopted a similar policy (especially in regards to references and copyediting). I don't have the time just now to find & check their policy, but [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Raven_(MHC-61) this article] tells me they lean towards italicizing. Quotes just seem to be an odd way of highlighting a ship's name. --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 12:02, 18 June 2009 (PDT)<br />
<br />
:::You're absolutely right. I was basing quotes vs. italics on CBL's conventions, which I was mistaken about. I took a look at ''[[Jihad Secrets: The Blake Documents]]'' where the ''Invincible'' WarShip is in italics. My bad. Won't happen again. Thanks for pointing out the problem --[[User:Ebakunin|Ebakunin]] 12:17, 18 June 2009 (PDT) {{emoticon|:P}}<br />
::::No, not a problem. You've actually given me another reason to write a Manual of Style for the wiki. This is a good one. --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 13:05, 18 June 2009 (PDT)<br />
<br />
== Wiki experience ==<br />
Hey, Ebakunin. It's clear to me that MediaWiki doesn't scare you. What kind of experience do you have with it?<br />
--[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 12:08, 3 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Dash or Code ==<br />
[[User:Xoid|Xoid]] once tried to explain this to me, but it went over my head. Why do you prefer to use the code <nowiki>&ndash;</nowiki>, instead of a dash? --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 03:41, 7 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
:And why didn't nowiki not work here? --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 03:41, 7 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:: '''Usage:'''<br />
::There's three type of dash [[w:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_XML_and_HTML_character_entity_references|entities]] (letter-like symbols), each slightly longer than the previous:<br />
<pre><br />
- (standard hyphen)<br />
– (&amp;ndash;)<br />
— (&amp;mdash;)<br />
</pre><br />
<br />
::In general, the short dash is used for hyphenated words, the long dash ("mdash") for connecting sentence fragments, and the "ndash" for everything else. For example:<br />
<br />
::* (standard hyphen) "Teaching a pre-teen to drive is a bad idea."<br />
::* (&amp;ndash;) George Washington, February 22, 1732 – December 14, 1799<br />
::* (&amp;mdash;) "Sarah, no matter what he said—and I know he said a lot—I promise you they were all lies."<br />
<br />
::'''Browser interpretation:'''<br />
::Here's where it gets complicated. A "[[w:Character (computing)|character]]" is basically a number, letter, or entity the can fit in one letter space. For example, "K" and "Æ" are characters since they take up one space, but "AE" is not. Since there are a ''lot'' of characters (©, ¥, ñ, etc.) and a limited number of keys on the keyboard, each character has an HTML character entity reference so the browser knows what to display. It has to be something weird so no one will accidentally type it and get confused, which is why &amp;ndash; gives you – and &amp;mdash; gives you —.<br />
<br />
::All the entities I've mentioned are perfectly valid letters/symbols that just don't show up on an American English keyboard. Therefore they are ''not'' HTML tags like &lt;div&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt; won't work on them.<br />
<br />
::Because they are entities, you can also cut-and-paste them just like any other letter. They're not readily available on my keyboard, though, which is why I type them out the long way. If BTW had a symbol insert list like Wikipedia offers (the one that lets you insert ©, ¥, ñ, etc.) I would use it instead.<br />
<br />
::That turned out to be a rather long winded response, but I hope it helped. {{emoticon|:)}} --<span style="font-family:Courier">[[User:Ebakunin|Ebakunin]]</span> <sup>([[User talk:Ebakunin|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Ebakunin|contribs]])</sup> 04:52, 7 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::NO! That absolutely helped. It also assuaged my guilt over not using the code, since I knew I could use it incorrectly. i see that is not the case, but that I'm free to use regular dashes. Thanks, Ebakunin. I appreciate it. --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 20:33, 7 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Timeline tags ==<br />
Having seen the awesome job you did on the yearlist, here's an idea I had: On the Starwars wiki, there is one or more era symbol(s) in each article (where appropriate), denoting during which eras a certain vehicle was used or a certain event occurred. I liked this concept, but totally lack the skills to implement something similar on BTW. You, on the other hand, seem quite skilled in this respect... [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] 21:11, 7 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:I know what you're referring to, but unfortunately the era symbols use JavaScript for correct positioning. Since I don't have access to BTW's JavaScript I can't do the work. Sorry. --[[User:Ebakunin|Ebakunin]] 21:14, 7 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Is it a one time code addition or something that would need constant access? --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 22:08, 7 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::To be honest, it would require admin status, as I would need to modify the [[Special:AllMessages|system messages]] page. --[[User:Ebakunin|Ebakunin]] 22:38, 7 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Wannabe_kate code ==<br />
Ebakunin, do you feel the editcounter code [http://toolserver.org/~interiot/cgi-bin/Tool1/wannabe_kate?code on this site] can be used here, if installed? --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 01:06, 8 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Bump. I was hoping you could see if this is something we could have installed on our server, rather than go thru Interiot's. The tool was very informative (IMO) and I'd love to be able to use it again. Thanks. --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 04:11, 11 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Would you first go [[w:WikiProject_edit_counters#MediaWiki_features_and_extensions|here]] and let me know which editcounter you prefer. Afterward, I'll need to talk with Nic about adding the tool to the site. He will need to do the dirty work. --[[User:Ebakunin|Ebakunin]] 05:34, 11 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::Technically, its [http://toolserver.org/~interiot/cgi-bin/count_edits this one], but he offers [http://toolserver.org/~interiot/cgi-bin/Tool1/wannabe_kate?code this code] from [http://toolserver.org/~interiot/cgi-bin/Tool1/wannabe_kate this page]. I'm not even certain the code to run the editcounter is available, but maybe what I provided you only links into the (possibly defunct) master server. --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 06:25, 11 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
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== Banner Placement ==<br />
Ebakunin, please find an appropriate place to put this on your [[User:Ebakunin|userpage]]: <br><br />
[[File:BTW Admin.jpg]]<br><br />
--[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 05:03, 9 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
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:Congratulations, and Welcome to the Admin team! [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] 10:16, 10 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
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==Edittools==<br />
I'm constantly forgetting how to use the <references/> code and then having to look up how I used it in the past. How would I make use of your editool? --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 18:39, 9 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
:What code? --[[User:Ebakunin|Ebakunin]] 18:40, 9 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
::[[MediaWiki:Edittools]]. Maybe I've mis-understood the intent of this page. --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 20:21, 9 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::Edit any page and look under the text box. You'll see the results. --[[User:Ebakunin|Ebakunin]] 20:39, 9 July 2009 (UTC) {{emoticon|:)}}<br />
::::So, how do you like your steaks? Certain cut? Expensive? Baked Alaska with that? Seriously...thank you!--[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 20:44, 9 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
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== Template:Cite ==<br />
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Ebakunin, do you think you might be able to get the cite tag to work properly? --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 19:25, 11 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
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:I'm not sure what you're referring to. --[[User:Ebakunin|Ebakunin]] 23:42, 11 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
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::Belay my last. I figured out what I wanted to get done. --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 00:47, 12 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
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== blanking pages ==<br />
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I'm going to keep blanking pages. I can't be banned because I'm not logged on.<br />
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:Hi. Would you please be more specific as to what's going on. I logged out and then edited [[Kell Hound Pilot (CCG - Limited)]] without any issues. I'm unsure how to recreate the problem you encountered. Thanks. --<span style="font-family=Courier">[[User:Ebakunin|Ebakunin]]</span> <sup>([[User talk:Ebakunin|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Ebakunin|contribs]])</sup> 20:36, 16 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
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== Watchout ==<br />
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I'm catching up with you on editcounts. Today i gained 3 to your 1 addition. Only 84 more to go (which equates to about 4,200 more, by that counter's function). Be afraid, be very afraid. :P--[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 03:49, 17 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
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== Ebakunin sig ==<br />
Re: {{tl|Ebakunin sig}}, I've corrected the timestamps and removed the four calls to it. I guess this means that it is no longer required? (Seems as if you decided against using it.) --[[User:Xoid|Xoid]] 13:33, 17 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
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:Yeah, I didn't realize you could customize your signature using wikicode. I need to double back and replicate the template results before deleting the template, otherwise all the signatures will disappear. --<span style="font-family:Courier">[[User:Ebakunin|Ebakunin]]</span> <sup>([[User talk:Ebakunin|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Ebakunin|contribs]])</sup> 17:48, 17 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
::Actually, that's what I did, but it seems you already figured that out. :D<br />
::It sort of surprised me really, most people who use vanity templates store them in the User namespace. e.g., <code><nowiki>{{User:Ebakunin/sig}}</nowiki></code>. I used to be a template sigger myself but I changed my ways after seeing a wiki go down in flames when it was vandalised. That, and I finally realised that each signature template tends to be a real strain on the server. --[[User:Xoid|Xoid]] 02:15, 18 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
:BTW, nice to finally meet you {{emoticon|:)}} --<span style="font-family:Courier">[[User:Ebakunin|Ebakunin]]</span> <sup>([[User talk:Ebakunin|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Ebakunin|contribs]])</sup> 17:48, 17 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
::And it's nice to be back. Ah, nostalgia. :P --[[User:Xoid|Xoid]] 02:15, 18 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
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== 25 Years of Art & Fiction ==<br />
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You put a specific date on the moratorium. Does that mean the print edition is for sale already?--[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 23:37, 17 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
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:Nope, my mistake. Fixing it now. --<span style="font-family:Courier">[[User:Ebakunin|Ebakunin]]</span> <sup>([[User talk:Ebakunin|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Ebakunin|contribs]])</sup> 23:42, 17 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
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::Roger, thanks. My hopes are dashed so easily.--[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 23:46, 17 July 2009 (UTC)</div>
Xoid