Talk:NAIS The Fourth Succession War Military Atlas Volume 1
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Named units[edit]
I have started over these two books trying to create the needed Militia Units, free-floating regiments, new mercenary, correct defense units per planet... and this is driving me crazy. This book is full of references like 80 regiments of armor and infantry... I'm trying to do my best creating what I can... this is "easy" for defensive units as I can create a Militia... but for attacking forces, I'm assuming this is part of the RCT if Davion (or even Lyran), but for the rest I'm not creating anything. Hope this criteria is OK with you all. --Pserratv (talk) 09:20, 30 January 2018 (EST)
- The 80 Regiments are considered attached to the attacking 'Mech regiments. Another instance of the universe being 'Mech centric. In the military commands categorys you already know about the Militia sub-category. The support commands sub-category is for the units you just mentioned. Sadly these units are also very under appreciated by the authors and as such very little is known about most of them.--Dmon (talk) 09:56, 30 January 2018 (EST)
- Hi Pserratv,
- I think you've made a mistake with some of the articles, looking at units like the Royal Draconis March Militia. A March Militia is a specific type of unit in the AFFS; you can see the details on pages 122 and 127 of House Davion (The Federated Suns), but each is an RCT with a 'Mech regiment and multiple infantry and armoured regiment. In the Third/Fourth Succession War era, there was one March Militia per Polymorphous Defense Zone, as each PDZ was responsible for funding "their" March Militia. The March Militias were/are deployable divisions that moved around; that's very different from planetary militias, which are everything from six guys with horses and pickup trucks to regiments of infantry and armour. House Davion (The Federated Suns) shows the following PDZs and March Militias being active within the Draconis March in 3025:
- Addicks PDZ (Addicks DMM)
- Clovis PDZ (Clovis DMM)
- Raman PDZ (Raman DMM)
- Robinson PDZ (Robinson DMM)
- Dahar PDZ (Dahar DMM)
- Bremond PDZ (Bremond DMM)
- Bryceland PDZ (Bryceland DMM)
- Mayetta PDZ (Mayetta DMM)
- Milligan PDZ (Milligan DMM)
- Kilbourne PDZ (Kilbourne DMM)
- Some planetary militias are given specific attention in books - you saw how Invading Clans actually named militia units in terms of regiments of varying kinds. However, if the militia isn't given a specific name, then it's not a noteworthy enough unit to merit a mention. Looking at the militias you've flagged from p. 30 of the Fourth Succession War Atlas V2, the text simply says "Combine units captured Bergman's Planet and New Aberdeen, which had been isolated by the fall of Harrow's Sun. On Lima, the Third Proserpina Hussars easily defeated the militia . On Royal, the Second Amphigean Light Assault Group had a similar success, while the Seventh Pesht Regulars grabbed McComb." There are no named militia units on there, let alone March Militia units - they're just generic planetary militia. If the text said "On Lima, the Third Prosperina Hussars easily defeated the 2nd Lima Infantry Regiment" or "On Lima, the Third Prosperina Hussars easily defeated the Lima Planetary Guard", then they'd be worth having articles on, but the text doesn't say that. It's definitely not the case that the Seventh Pesht Regulars defeated the McComb Draconis March Militia; McComb sits in what was the Raman PDZ at the time, and the only March Militia unit active within that PDZ (at least, as of 3025) was the Raman DMM, as listed above.
- Does that help at all? BrokenMnemonic (talk) 12:20, 30 January 2018 (EST)
- Not much. Does this mean all these militia units do not belong to an specific March Militia, but are generic units? If generic and not considered relevant (and no article is needed? How can we treat them?)--Pserratv (talk) 16:47, 30 January 2018 (EST)
- That's what it means, yes - unless the unit name specifies March Militia, it's not a part of the Capellan/Crucis/Draconis/Periphery March Militia organization, but rather it's just a generic planetary militia. They don't get tracked here as units because there isn't enough detail on them to track them if they don't have a name - we don't know what the Lima planetary militia called themselves, for example. In this case, I'd expect there to be a section in the history of the planet article for the Fourth Succession War, indicating that the planetary militia were defeated by the invading forces. I'd also expect the invading unit (if named) to mention in its history section for the Fourth Succession War that it captured Lima after defeating the planetary militia, but I wouldn't expect the planetary militia themselves to have an article because they aren't significant. That's a contrast with the militia units in Invading Clans, who were given names and enough detail to actually merit articles. BrokenMnemonic (talk) 02:36, 31 January 2018 (EST)
- Ok, I'll do that from now onwards... and try to amend the incorrect ones I've created. I'll keep the article but delete the link to the March Militia. I've done some cleansing and will try to be more careful with those militia units... though I do like to create this kind of articles... even though if we were to be exact... all planets would have a kind of militia!--Pserratv (talk) 04:44, 31 January 2018 (EST)
- I agree with BrokenMnemonic that yes we do want articles about named units - but "X militia" is not a proper name most of the time, it's just a descriptive reference. Specifically regarding the Kaifeng Militia, they happen to have plenty of screentime in the novel Binding Force where they're consistently called the "Kaifeng SMM" (Sarna March Militia) - a name they adopted even as a Sarna Supremacy state unit, when Kaifeng broke away from the Sarna March and became one of three worlds in the re-created Second Sarna Supremacy within the Chaos March. Frabby (talk) 09:23, 31 January 2018 (EST)
- Frabby, just to make life more complicated, the Kaifeng Sarna March Militia is a different beast. The militia on Kaifeng in 3028 were the bog-standard Capellan conventional planetary militia. The Kaifeng Sarna March Militia was the March Militia of the Kaifeng Command (Kaifeng PDZ), one of the 7 or so Sarna March Militias established by the Federated Commonwealth when the March Militia structure got rolled out across both states in the 3040s. The other Sarna March Militia commands were the Corey SMM, Wei SMM, Nanking SMM, Achernar SMM, Epsilon Eridani SMM and Liao SMM - their details are in the 20 Year Update and a few other places. The Kaifeng SMM was one of three March Militia regimental combat teams operating in the Palos Operational Area of the Sarna March. The Sarna March Militia hasn't been as well-fleshed out on here as the Federated Suns-esque March Militias, and the Sarna March Militia page indicates some confusion over an Arboris SMM. BrokenMnemonic (talk) 09:56, 31 January 2018 (EST)
- I agree with BrokenMnemonic that yes we do want articles about named units - but "X militia" is not a proper name most of the time, it's just a descriptive reference. Specifically regarding the Kaifeng Militia, they happen to have plenty of screentime in the novel Binding Force where they're consistently called the "Kaifeng SMM" (Sarna March Militia) - a name they adopted even as a Sarna Supremacy state unit, when Kaifeng broke away from the Sarna March and became one of three worlds in the re-created Second Sarna Supremacy within the Chaos March. Frabby (talk) 09:23, 31 January 2018 (EST)
- Ok, I'll do that from now onwards... and try to amend the incorrect ones I've created. I'll keep the article but delete the link to the March Militia. I've done some cleansing and will try to be more careful with those militia units... though I do like to create this kind of articles... even though if we were to be exact... all planets would have a kind of militia!--Pserratv (talk) 04:44, 31 January 2018 (EST)
- That's what it means, yes - unless the unit name specifies March Militia, it's not a part of the Capellan/Crucis/Draconis/Periphery March Militia organization, but rather it's just a generic planetary militia. They don't get tracked here as units because there isn't enough detail on them to track them if they don't have a name - we don't know what the Lima planetary militia called themselves, for example. In this case, I'd expect there to be a section in the history of the planet article for the Fourth Succession War, indicating that the planetary militia were defeated by the invading forces. I'd also expect the invading unit (if named) to mention in its history section for the Fourth Succession War that it captured Lima after defeating the planetary militia, but I wouldn't expect the planetary militia themselves to have an article because they aren't significant. That's a contrast with the militia units in Invading Clans, who were given names and enough detail to actually merit articles. BrokenMnemonic (talk) 02:36, 31 January 2018 (EST)
- Not much. Does this mean all these militia units do not belong to an specific March Militia, but are generic units? If generic and not considered relevant (and no article is needed? How can we treat them?)--Pserratv (talk) 16:47, 30 January 2018 (EST)