User talk:Revanche

Talk Archive

My Fan fic

• Ok, it's up but I'm damned if I know how to get the chapters headings (the location, planet, state, date) to appear underneath each other instead of side by side. LOL! Perhaps you could give me some tuition there...? Thanks. :) --Jimmy the Tulip 21:27, 13 November 2006 (CST)

Okay, I'll take a look at fixing that. Go into the edit field after I have to see how I did it (still gotta figure out what you intended, so I may be wrong).--Revanche (admin) 22:07, 13 November 2006 (CST)

EDIT: Never mind, I think I've sorted it.:) --Jimmy the Tulip 22:12, 13 November 2006 (CST)

Yeah, it looks we were both working on it at the same time; my bad. I did put some <br> codes after each of your section titles, to help with the spacing problem. I hope you don't mind. Some times, people use : or :: to do the same thing, though it also indents the item it preceeds. Also, remember to 'sign' your posts, so that people can follow the conversation more clearly. Its not as clean as a forum is it? ;) --Revanche (admin) 22:20, 13 November 2006 (CST)

Is there a way to make an indent like a paragraph (i.e. only the first sentence is indented)?RogueBaron 16:44, 15 November 2006 (CST)

Good question, and I don't know. I'll ask Xoid over at his Talk page. --Revanche (admin) 20:00, 15 November 2006 (CST)

Thanks for the welcome

• On my first edit too. :-)

Since I'm head admin at another wiki I don't expect to be around all that much, but I mainly focus on fixing what ever needs some polish. Funnily enough, I was actually working on cleaning that very page up when I got IMed about some stuff that needed to be dealt with. --Xoid 01:14, 15 November 2006 (CST)

Well, we're small enough here to spot new people and their efforts to help out. Thanks again. --Revanche (admin) 09:11, 15 November 2006 (CST)

• Revanche,

thank you very much for your comments. It is my pleasure to contribute things to this website. You can ask Nic how long I had been a huge fan of sarna (back to 2000, I think) One thing about your last comment: you suggest that I log in so my fanfic(s) can get credit. I don't understand it. Do you suggest that I log in when I am making the post? Please enlighten me on this. — The preceding unsigned comment was posted by RogueBaron (talk • contribs) 10:37, 15 November (CST).

RogueBaron, when you log onto BTW, you can have the site recognize you. That way, /almost/ everything you do gets attributed to you. For example, when you posted 2 of your 3 stories, they are attributed to IP addresses (216.69.63.254) rather than to you. There's no danger in not doing it, but as BTW picks up in popularity, the admins (and fellow editors) will start to recognize log-in names, but hone in on changes/additions made by anonymous users (i.e. IP addresess). It gives us a warm-fuzzy feeling when we see that RogueBaron added/edited/uploaded something, but alarms go off if it was an IP address. Also, you'll notice that my posts, and some of the others made on talk pages (like this one) have signatures from the poster, that includes the time of the post. You can easily add this yourself, to your posts, with one touch of a button - the button 2nd to the right above the edit field, between the 'no-W' symbol and the dark dash; it looks like a cursive Q. Clicking on that will immediately sign & datestamp your post, so that others know who wrote it. Keep submitting the stories...you're already responsible for bringing at least one more author in! --Revanche (admin) 13:59, 15 November 2006 (CST)

Alright, I get it. I'll do that. --RogueBaron 15:48, 15 November 2006 (CST)

Whole Bunch o' Stuff

• The original title for that heading was gonna be 'Naming Conventions, Moving Pages, the Official Game Systems, a newbie's mistake, I added some timestamps and some serious concerns…' but that was way too long. :-P

At the moment, the 'official' pages are MechCommander 2 and MechWarrior II. I was thinking of just moving MechCommander 2 to MechCommander II to fit the current convention, but then it hit me; the 'Official Game Systems' would still be pointing to the older page. (I wish I thought of this at the time I moved Titans Of Steel to Titans of Steel)

Now, this is a small thing, really, but to save having additional server resources wasted on processing the redirect (it'll add up if they're accessed enough), having the 'Official Game Systems' updated to point directly to Titans of Steel (and if you decide to standardise the naming convention, MechCommander II) would be wise. I suppose I should be talking to Nic about that?

209.160.64.42^Talk made a mistake. Not sure how you want to proceed with that. Is it deletion worthy (it does seem rather inane and off topic), or was the guy not trying to be humorous?

Finally, in my time administrating the wiki I'm supposed to be at (meh, they can survive for a couple of days without me), we had a rather nasty vandal problem. While I'm glad to see there aren't any here, our problems were… several standard deviations worse than the norm; extremely innovative. Is there a way I can send a private communique to you and Nic? I'd rather that knowledge of this extremely nasty exploit were not publicly accessible, for obvious reasons. --Xoid 06:30, 17 November 2006 (CST)

As for 209.160.64.42^Talk, I have a hard time not believing it wasn't a minor form of vandalism. Afterall...meh. I don't think he got banned, but I should delete it. Thanks.

Talking with Nic on both counts (Official Game Systems & the explot) would be appropriate, IMO. Might I suggest sending him a PM via the attached forums? The link is at the top left of the page. His handle over there is "Nic Jansma." I'd be interested in hearing what you have to say, as well, especially if it pertains to keeping our eyes open for this bit o' cleverness. Thanks for providing us the head's up, in any case. --Revanche (admin) 08:52, 17 November 2006 (CST)

Thanks for that. Also, since I noticed you do indeed have a Common.css, I've taken the liberty of figuring out an easy way to implement the first-line indent that RogueBaron wanted. Just add *[class=indent] p { text-indent: 1in; } to MediaWiki:Common.css, then put a <div class="indent"> at the beginning of the story, and a </div> at the end. If fancruft were delegated to a specific namespace, it could be done automatically instead (there are plenty of pros and cons to taking a 'separate namespace for fancruft' approach, more a matter of preference than anything). --Xoid 09:04, 17 November 2006 (CST)

I'm gonna clue Nic in on this one. [/bold] --Revanche (admin) 20:46, 17 November 2006 (CST)

New InfoBox for Weapons (Clan/IS Capable)

• 'Twas a pain-in-the-arse, but it's done. I also love how MediaWiki decided to log me out right before I saved. *grumble grumble* Linky. For it to look as it should, I'll need a couple of lines added to Common.css. Namely:

table.infobox2 tr.infobox2row td.bot { border-bottom: 1px solid #999; border-top: none; } table.infobox2 tr.infobox2row td.top { border-bottom: none; border-top: 1px solid #999; }

I guess I could just use inline style sheets, but if there is anything else that could use a 'InfoBoxSomething2', it'd start to become mighty redundant. --Xoid 05:24, 20 November 2006 (CST)

Great, Xoid; I'll get to work on the Help article for it (and clue CJKeys in, as to where it is right now). I get the feeling I'll be asking you for some clarification, once I start writing the article, so please stand by! Thanks! As for the CSS, can I just add it to the bottom of the page, or is there somewhere in aprticular I need to be putting it? --Revanche (admin) 12:03, 20 November 2006 (CST)

Just at the bottom is fine. Since it's 'good to go', I might as well move the thing into the template namespace. I'll move it to {{InfoBoxWeapon2}}. Most of it's pretty much the same as before, the only really 'fancy' aspects are the noimg and Tech Base parameters, and how the IS parameters equal the clan parameters until you overwrite them. Yeah, I get the feeling I'll be clarifying some things too. ;-) --Xoid 15:41, 20 November 2006 (CST)

Ok, I've added it to the CSS space. --Revanche (admin) 16:05, 20 November 2006 (CST)

Hm. The CSS isn't working as I expected. Strange, it did at home. I'll look into it. Odds are it has something to do with another minor alteration I made to the CSS. I'll do a diff comparision between the source of the resulting template and my 'test page'. If it still doesn't work, it may require some serious rewriting of the CSS to get around whatever glitch that both IE and Firefox (or maybe it's just MediaWiki, for once?) are suffering from. *crosses fingers* --Xoid 17:03, 20 November 2006 (CST)

*embarrassed* I, uh, forgot to rename the two CSS pieces when I gave them to you. Please rename instances of table.infobox2 to table.infobox. That should work then. --Xoid 01:58, 22 November 2006 (CST)

Okay, changes made. How's it look to you now? --Revanche (admin) 10:44, 22 November 2006 (CST)

Purrrrrfect. Take a gander for yourself; no more lines in between the two cells. --Xoid 11:19, 22 November 2006 (CST)

Your Job Offer

• Hey Revanche, you may have read my reply to your offer on my talk page but, just in case, the answer is yes. :) It'd be a priviledge to help out in this fashion. I've read the required project page you directed me to and am happy to carry on. --Jimmy the Tulip 15:24, 20 November 2006 (CST)

Planetary data

• Hey Rev. With regards to updating the planetary data with fluff do you think an abridged version of the USIIR fluff that Mendrugo sourced would be acceptable to use here? --Jimmy the Tulip 19:25, 20 November 2006 (CST)

Absolutely, with one clarification. The USIIR blurbs were directly pulled from canon material, so 'abridged' should read as 're-written.' Great idea! Man, why didn't I think of that? --Revanche (admin) 20:16, 20 November 2006 (CST)

well, you can't think of everything, can you? --Jimmy the Tulip 22:12, 20 November 2006 (CST)

Yeah, but in hindsight, your idea seems so obvious, I can't help but be piqued! Well, do you think you'll start off on that project? If so, there's no way you can reasonably do it all yourself. If you want, I can create a Project: Planets with you as the lead. You can provide Mendrugo's database to other members who are willing to share their e-mail with you (or you can put it on a sub-page, where its not usually searched). --Revanche (admin) 22:46, 20 November 2006 (CST)

Consider me officially volunteered for Project: Planets. Do I get a cool banner for that too? :D

Sure as shootin'. I'll set up the project (similar at first to project: BattleMechs) as time allows and turn it over to you to customize as you see fit. I'll also commission Project: Planets Userbars for you (the lead) and your future members (which you will ahnd out, based on who's on your project list). Be aware: it'll be lonely work, probably lonelier than CJKeys' project, at first. --Revanche (admin) 19:07, 21 November 2006 (CST)

If I get any volunteers for the Project I'll send them relevant portions of the planetary fluff files (which I kept). They can then work off those, re-wording and shortening them to suit. --Jimmy the Tulip 15:53, 21 November 2006 (CST)

Sounds suitable. Its your 'baby' now! --Revanche (admin) 19:07, 21 November 2006 (CST)

Uhn, no more babies! I'm losing enough sleep between my two girls waking. ANother baby would be the end of me! --Jimmy the Tulip 19:48, 21 November 2006 (CST)

Comments and Responses

• What is our official policy on comments and responses. It seems we've followed two styles, either lists or indented:

• Comment
  • Response
    • Response response

or:

Comment

Response

Response response

Should we standardize on one or the other? I personally find lists (*) easier to read, but sometimes they don't work if there's a linebreak in between:

• Comment

extra text

• • Response

Ideas? Nicjansma 21:28, 21 November 2006 (CST)

My POV, Nic, is that there is no way to regulate this, and we wouldn't want to. I've tried to follow the style dominant on any one person's talk page or the trend of that one conversation. Like you, I also preferred lists at first, but also found line breaks were a hassle to contend with. By going with list to start (which focuses the eye on the beginning of the conversation thread) and then indents following, it seems to flow naturally. But, hey, if you use Playboy Bunnies as post markers on your page, then I'll do the same.--Revanche (admin) 23:55, 21 November 2006 (CST)

Trying to standardise on this is essentially impossible. Following the convention already used is generally the way to go. Even once you've accepted upon a general style, there are further subtle deviations that can come into it. Should I, or should I not include a blank line between my response and their original message? There are some truly convoluted mechanisms beyond that if you care to search various wikis. There are even methods beyond that basic format which people impose on their own talk pages. Two examples of which: my and Grim s' talk pages. I chose my standard for keeping the most recently posted stuff at the top of it's subsection. Grim s chose to keep everyone's posts in the one place. Try a few a dozen talk pages on Wikipedia, and you'll find that even there you'll find no true consensus. Just a case of different strokes for different folks, I guess. --Xoid 01:17, 22 November 2006 (CST)

LOL, OK. I'll try to follow the policy of 'follow the leader' :) I've also started liking starting a conversation out with a list, and following up with indents. Thanks for setting me straight. Nicjansma 08:35, 22 November 2006 (CST)

Hey, now: if you want to cultivate a founder's sense of diety, you might not want to take our advice AND thank us for it. Its positively mortal to do someting so lowbrow. --Revanche (admin) 10:23, 22 November 2006 (CST)

Sub Pages

• I notice you've got a few pages like Revanche/Purging floating around. That's actually in the main namespace. You should move them into your user space, by affixing User: to the front of them. --Xoid 11:41, 22 November 2006 (CST)

That explains why they show up on searches! Okay...I thought I had read that sub-pages don't do that. Thanks, Xoid: I'll get right on that. (Will the education ever end?) --Revanche (admin) 13:12, 22 November 2006 (CST)

They don't. The problem is those were only 'pseudo'-subpages (my own term, not sure if there's official one). Y'see, only some namespaces have subpages turned on by default. The Talk: and various Something_talk: namespaces have it turned on by default, but most of the non-talk oriented namespaces don't. --Xoid 02:15, 23 November 2006 (CST)

Site-wide CSS

Would it be too much to ask for these to be added to the Common.css? :-)

/* Messagebox templates */

.messagebox {
   border: 1px solid #aaaaaa;
   background-color: #f9f9f9;
   width: 80%;
   margin: 0 auto 1em auto;
   padding: .2em;
}

/* Put a checker background at the image description page only visible if the image has transparent background */

#file img {background: url("/images/5/5d/Checker-16x16.png") repeat;}

/* Puts a redirect indicator before redirects in Special:Allpages */
.allpagesredirect { font-style: italic; }
.allpagesredirect a { background: url("/images/5/5c/Allpagesredirect.gif") center left no-repeat; padding-left: 13px; }

--Xoid 19:59, 25 November 2006 (CST)

Done & done. --Revanche (admin) 18:44, 26 November 2006 (CST)

The BTW seems to upload images to a different location than that what I'm used to, so those URLs are wrong. To fix it, please add "/wiki" in front of the "/images/". --Xoid 00:24, 29 November 2006 (CST)

Can you also review the Common.css? It seems like my additions (at the bottom) don't display as the earlier versions do. I wnder if that is also screwing with your efforts. --Revanche (admin) 09:09, 29 November 2006 (CST)

Not your fault at all, it mainly has to do with the differences in formatting of the previous styles, and how Wikipedia formats their Common.css (and by extension, how I failed to format it properly for our wiki).

I neatened ours up, but I'm going to need to spend a few minutes with a good text editor to get everything aligned. We could, instead just have it like Wikipedia does, but their version is a little hard to read for some things. Hm, I'm thinking of overhauling the sucker, and adding in things like a TOC for fast reference (Will include a lot of work to set up (because we have to comment out the WikiML in such a way that the CSS works, but still displays 'nicely' on the wiki), but once it's set up it'll be a godsend, trust me on that. --Xoid 18:13, 29 November 2006 (CST)

You lost me at "CSS". Not your fault, however. --Revanche (admin) 18:38, 29 November 2006 (CST)

CSS = Cascading Style Sheets. It's one of the standards of the web. All the style= attributes are full of CSS. Everything inbetween a { and } in the Common.css is CSS, etc. It's the code that makes stuff pretty. --Xoid 18:44, 29 November 2006 (CST)

Ok. And WikiML: would that be metalanguage? (That doesn't mean I know what that is!) --Revanche (admin) 20:18, 29 November 2006 (CST)

ML is a common ending on x Markup Language. e.g., Hyper Text Markup Language (aka HTML). WikiML is just short hand for saying "wiki markup code", or some-such. There's actually a specific name for it, but when 95% of Wikipedians don't know it, it's a fair bet no one else would either, so I don't use it. --Xoid 21:45, 29 November 2006 (CST)

So, "comment out the WikiML in such a way...?" (I'm learning in bits & pieces.)--Revanche (admin) 00:53, 30 November 2006 (CST)

The /* and */ are the block comment syntax for CSS. For Wiki (& SG & X & HT & XHT) ML it's <!-- and -->. Block comments start at the first symbol and end at the second, as opposed to regular comments (which we don't have in WikiML and, to my knowledge, not in CSS either) are usually of the // form. --Xoid 03:40, 30 November 2006 (CST)

Sandcastle

• Did you see the one I left in the sandbox? See it in practice on the sandbox's talk page. --Xoid 00:24, 29 November 2006 (CST)

:Yeah...now, how would that be 'planted' by a user/editor? That is, is it specific to PBM or is it easily adaptable, as a template, to match any project? I'm confusing myself...since its in the sandbox, I'm not sure how it would be placed on a Discussion page. I feel so dumb: how would it work? --Revanche (admin) 20:21, 29 November 2006 (CST)

Just got caught up by seeing the discussion page. So, all that needs to be done is to add

 {{Help:Sandbox|tr=true}}

first and then subtract tr=true from it, leaving

{{Help:Sandbox}}

after the review, right? --Revanche (admin) 20:34, 29 November 2006 (CST)

Yup. --Xoid 21:41, 29 November 2006 (CST)

Could you share this with CJKeys, at BattleTechWiki talk:Project BattleMechs and set it up (the review process)? This would make the review process more certain. --Revanche (admin) 00:56, 30 November 2006 (CST)

The review process? That'll take more work than the template did, it'll require people with an idea of what to look for in the content to properly review one. I can flesh it out, given something to start on, but I'm dismal at starting from scratch in an area that is not my forte. Xoid 03:43, 30 November 2006 (CST)

Well, what I meant was tie the 'auto-update' feature the tr=true seemed to generate into the Project's main page, but I just got into the template's guts and now understand it adds the 'Mech to a 'review' category. Once its reviewed, the removal of the tr=true removes the 'Mech from that category, correct? --Revanche (admin) 08:41, 30 November 2006 (CST)

Yeah, that's how it works. (Technically, you don't even need tr=true, as long as it's tr=something it'll work.) I'm loving having ParserFunctions enabled here; there's real need for it here, as opposed to my wanting it on the UDWiki just so I can dick around with it. --Xoid 16:26, 30 November 2006 (CST)

I like it. Seems simple enough to use. Can you 'talk' with CJKeys about it and/or make the changes to start using it via the PBM page? I'd do it, but it'd just get added to the list of 'small things' I need to do. --Revanche (admin) 09:15, 1 December 2006 (CST)

Starting a Unit for the Fan Project area

• -Hiya Dan,

Im thinking of starting an area in the Fan Projects for Fan units,either canon flavor or complete custom. Maybe a template for this would be in order? Type of unit(canon / merc / clan /blah blah blah) Affiliation and so on.

I am currently working on some 3D unit labels based on the old Battletech labels based on the Military APP6 codes. Think this would go over well ? I would want pics of the units, characters if possible along with the units bio Kirk — The preceding unsigned comment was posted by Rommel twee (talk • contribs) 18:31, 30 November 2006 (CST).

1) Take a look at the changes both Xoid and I made to your post here, to see how to do things. Remember to not indent, or you get that code box that automatically installs around the text. I was able to 'link' to that article you referenced by putting one pair of brackets around the URL and then a space between it and the title you gave the link. You can sign your comments easily by using 4 tildes (~~~~) at the end. The software then assigns your name & date automatically.

2) Fan Units: absolutlely. I always intended to create a template for just that. I just felt like I should make it for canon units, as well. I don't think it should go under Fan Projects, however. Just as we have canon & custom 'Mech pages, I think Factions should also be represented. I'll start to work on it. Keep an eye on my attempts (they'll appear on the Help page and tell me what you think needs to be added.

3) 3D labels...Well, this should definitely be interesting, and yeah...that's a fan project to see! --Revanche (admin) 09:06, 1 December 2006 (CST)

Templates

• I've noticed you've made a lot of them lately. I'm currently toying with a method to reduce redundancy and ensure that server load is kept at a minimum. Unless the template is desperately needed, please don't make any more for the next two to three days, I should have the 'procedure' in place by then and taught you it. Trust me, this is so brilliant in its simplicity, but so effective… you get the idea (which was, incidentally, yet again stolen 'borrowed' from Wikipedia)— it's pure gold. --Xoid 03:21, 4 December 2006 (CST)

Sure, that's fine. My template construction is up-to-date now and teaching me a new method while its still fresh in my mind would be useful. --Revanche (admin) 07:31, 4 December 2006 (CST)

What's the plan, Xoid?--The General^T 07:55, 5 December 2006 (CST)

See {{disambig}}, and look at the source. Also: follow the link to Wikipedia's template doc pattern page. This is a brilliant and simple way to reduce server load when updating documentation (to fix a typo in the documentation, say the template's being nominated for deletion, say the template's been superseded by X, add categories, etc.), and makes permanent protection of templates a less unpalatable proposition. It's just so bloody obvious in hindsight, but why did nobody ever think of it before? --Xoid 12:29, 5 December 2006 (CST)

Two things: A) I hope your response was to The General, 'cause I'm not sure how {{disambig}} addresses my recent canon/custom template building splurge. If it does, how could I, as the template Creators made use of this info? 2) Can you add these tags onto the Tags help page, as you build them? A layman's documentation of how best to employ them would be best. Detailed instructions can then be provided on the tag's discussion page. Thanks for bearing with the laymen's representative. ;) --Revanche (admin) 14:14, 5 December 2006 (CST)

The funny thing is, no one I know seems to understand me on the fine details of template creation and usage, not even The General (Hammero would, but he was put out to pasture left for greener pastures).

OK, notice how {{disambig}} has the <noinclude>{{/doc}}</noinclude> in it? The documentation is being transcluded from the /doc 'sub template' (as opposed to being directly in the template itself). This has numerous benefits, mostly bandwidth/monetary related, but there are some others as well.

The tags help page can be considered as one of two things: redundant, or something to keep for newbies. I don't like the idea of more work ('cause I'm lazy) but to be honest, keeping it a 'dumbed down' version for those not fluent in MediaWiki is likely a good idea. LLinking to the technical documentation from the Help:Tags page would also be of great help to those who aren't looking to be babysat through template usage.

If you are actually interested in some of the nitty-gritty, or a 'how-to' make your templates in the same fashion, see the template doc page pattern page. --Xoid 00:40, 6 December 2006 (CST)

Where's Nic?

There's a whole bunch of stuff I want to do with images and template creation, but I can't even upload PNGs. This is seriously hindering my efforts to get this 'quality of life'-crap (i.e., templates that look pretty and do 95% of the work for you) in here before people start clamouring for it. Sure, the templates are slightly more complicated, but can automatically add things to either one of two tracking categories. {{ProjectBattleMech}} sends it to the new category, {{ProjectBattleMech}} sends it to peer review category, I was planning on doing the same with Project Planets too (it needs it, desperately). --Xoid 13:27, 6 December 2006 (CST)

Sorry for dropping the ball, work has been taking a toll on me -- post work I'm too tired to look at a computer usually. If there are any urgent issues, please email me at nic at nicj dot net in the future. Nicjansma 00:01, 8 December 2006 (CST)

InfoBoxBattleMech

• I've made some changes to the BattleMech infobox in the vein of standardisation. It did break a lot of pages, and has new parameters to deal with. Now, I know what you're thinking; sorry, but I haven't gotten around to updating the various 'how to create a 'mech page' page, yet. I figured fixing the ton of articles we currently have should take priority.

If you can understand the slight modifications I made to the call, and the documentation that I wrote (you can view it on the template itself), then pretty, pretty please do me a huge favour and update the 'how to create a 'mech page' page accordingly. If you can manage that, could you do me the favour of updating those sorts of pages for all the templates I have to modify? (I want to get this [the major template updates] done now, before more articles show up — if it's done right now we won't need to fix more up later. However, that does mean the 'how to' guide will be out of date. I honestly don't have the time to deal with writing clear, concise documentation for newbies when I'm gonna have such a backlog of template modifications and article repairs.) --Xoid 10:05, 7 December 2006 (CST)

Yes, I can absolutely write the how-to articles (its really just copying the code (that the Creator drops onto the blank page) into the demo box for the article. I just really need to get into how they are different, so that I can do it. I'm going to take your above guidance and create a new infobox for custom units (as in merc groups & such). If I can do that successfully with your method, then I'll fix the previously posted ones. --Revanche (admin) 11:54, 8 December 2006 (CST)

Category:SomethingCustom

• I'd prefer if it were Category:Something (Custom), as that allows editors to use the simple pipe syntax [[Category:Something (Custom)|]] to get [[Category:Something (Custom)|Something]] if they so desire.
  This does mean that simple category links [[Category:SomethingCustom|]] would no longer be able to be used for rapid piping when trying to ensure there is no ambiguity, but since you would be leaving off the Category: there is already ambiguity by default. To make it faster to write 'short' hand links after the change, I could whip up a simple template for the purpose (more accurately; I'll 'borrow' one of Wikipedia's :P). --Xoid 21:12, 9 December 2006 (CST)
  • Hehe, if you don't have a template, steal it from wikipedia :p.--The General^T 17:09, 12 December 2006 (CST)