Retry
02/24/14 11:00 PM
72.214.204.166
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Would CASE really dramatically increase survivability? If that ammo bin is hit you will not live to last many more hits at all.
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Karagin
02/24/14 11:17 PM
70.118.139.48
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CASE can't hurt and it's a big improvement in protecting the mech for salvage.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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KamikazeJohnson
02/24/14 11:48 PM
50.72.218.68
|
Quote:
Would CASE really dramatically increase survivability? If that ammo bin is hit you will not live to last many more hits at all.
In my experience, ammo explosion is the most common way an UrbanMech exits a battle. CASE allows it to take that hit and stand another round or two, or (attempt to) withdraw.
Peace is that glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.
--Thomas Jefferson
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ghostrider
02/24/14 11:50 PM
24.30.128.72
|
I don't know about anyone else, but a ppc armed mech that isn't called an urbanmech is fine by me.
The ecm definately is a big help for this mech. Might allow a couple more shots before being used as a pot hole filler.
The spl is heavier but no ammo booms from mgs.
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KamikazeJohnson
02/25/14 12:44 AM
50.72.218.68
|
Valkyrie VLK-JM
Mass: 30 tons
Tech Base: Inner Sphere
Chassis Config: Biped
Rules Level: Tournament Legal
Era: Succession Wars
Tech Rating/Era Availability: E/X-F-E-A
Production Year: 3050
Cost: 4,063,020 C-Bills
Battle Value: 859
Chassis: Unknown Endo-Steel
Power Plant: Unknown 180 Fusion XL Engine
Walking Speed: 64.8 km/h
Maximum Speed: 97.2 km/h
Jump Jets: Unknown
Jump Capacity: 150 meters
Armor: Unknown Standard Armor w/ CASE
Armament:
1 LRM-15 w/ Artemis IV FCS
1 Medium Laser
Manufacturer: Unknown
Primary Factory: Unknown
Communications System: Unknown
Targeting and Tracking System: Unknown
================================================================================
Equipment Type Rating Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Endo-Steel 51 points 1.50
Internal Locations: 1 HD, 1 CT, 2 LT, 3 RT, 4 LA, 3 RA
Engine: XL Fusion Engine 180 3.50
Walking MP: 6
Running MP: 9
Jumping MP: 5 Standard
Jump Jet Locations: 1 CT, 2 LL, 2 RL 2.50
Heat Sinks: Double Heat Sink 10(20) 0.00
Heat Sink Locations: 1 LT, 1 RT, 1 RA
Gyro: Standard 2.00
Cockpit: Standard 3.00
Actuators: L: SH+UA+LA+H R: SH+UA+LA
Armor: Standard Armor AV - 96 6.00
CASE Locations: 1 RT 0.50
Internal Armor
Structure Factor
Head 3 8
Center Torso 10 14
Center Torso (rear) 4
L/R Torso 7 12
L/R Torso (rear) 2
L/R Arm 5 9
L/R Leg 7 12
================================================================================
Equipment Location Heat Critical Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Medium Laser RA 3 1 1.00
LRM-15 LT 5 3 7.00
Artemis IV FCS LT - 1 1.00
@LRM-15 (Artemis) (16) RT - 2 2.00
Free Critical Slots: 6
BattleForce Statistics
MV S (+0) M (+2) L (+4) E (+6) Wt. Ov Armor: 3 Points: 9
6/3j 2 2 2 0 1 0 Structure: 1
Special Abilities: CASE, SRCH, ES, SEAL, SOA, IF 1
DESIGN NOTES:
Never really been a big an of the Valkyrie...mostly because I don't like the
LRM 10. Still, it's mobility gives it some value over a similarly-equipped
Vehicle, so it's worth having overall.
The official upgrade actually wasn't horrible...they removed the 11th Heat
Sink, which was unnecessary unless you fired both the LRM and ML at the same
time (rare) while Jumping. Artemis IV is a decent enhancement for the LRM.
Still mystified by how many times FA$A replaced MLs with a MPLs and called it
an "upgrade". For the tonnage, I'd rather have a second ML.
From the start, I felt the Valkyrie was a good candidate for an XL Engine. The
'Mech's primarily long-range role means the expensive engine would rarely be
exposed to a lot of enemy fire, and by increasing the speed a notch improved
bth the safety of the engine and the Valkyrie's ability to manoever to a good
firing location.
CASE was added to protect the pilot and preserve most of the 'Mech in the event
of an ammo explosion, and with the use of Endo Steel, I was left with 3 tons.
My first thought was to max the armour, add a 6th Jump Jet, and throw on some
more short-range backup weapons, but on second thought I upgraded the LRM 10 (w
Artemis) to a larger rack, and added a second ton of ammo. Since I had enough
available crit space, I upgraded to DHS "just in case".
Peace is that glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.
--Thomas Jefferson
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ghostrider
02/25/14 01:00 AM
24.30.128.72
|
If I recall the valkyrie was supposed to be a davion mech made to hunt panthers of the combine.
I do agree it is rare to fire both weapons.
It is interesting you bumped the lrm 10 up to a 15 with artemis.
2 tons of ammo was a good idea as well.
Now for the big question. Why go with double heat sinks if this is the case?
I could see it if you increased the number of mls or something like it.
It is nice to have a cold mech.
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KamikazeJohnson
02/25/14 01:02 AM
50.72.218.68
|
Lol...only 1 comment on this one...looks like I'm not the only one who really doesn't care about the Stinger!
Then again, there was a bit of a discussion in the WASP section regarding my decision not to go XL...
Peace is that glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.
--Thomas Jefferson
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ghostrider
02/25/14 01:05 AM
24.30.128.72
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you put up the next one before anyone could comment on them? kinda why I said to break them up.
I really don't think most people were impressed with the stinger at all. Locust was faster, though no jets, and the wasp has better ranged firepower. The stinger was at best an infantry fighter. It seemed like a weaker clone of the wasp.
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KamikazeJohnson
02/25/14 01:08 AM
50.72.218.68
|
Quote:
you put up the next one before anyone could comment on them?
What can I say, I'm in a hurry to get the Lights posted and done so I can get to the "interesting" upgrades 
Peace is that glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.
--Thomas Jefferson
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KamikazeJohnson
02/25/14 01:28 AM
50.72.218.68
|
Quote:
If I recall the valkyrie was supposed to be a davion mech made to hunt panthers of the combine.
I do agree it is rare to fire both weapons.
It is interesting you bumped the lrm 10 up to a 15 with artemis.
2 tons of ammo was a good idea as well.
Now for the big question. Why go with double heat sinks if this is the case?
I could see it if you increased the number of mls or something like it.
It is nice to have a cold mech.
I went with DHS because there was really no reason not to. The extra heat dissipation is one benefit, the other is the 6 additional "safe" crits...with thr XL Engine and the additional ammo, it's nice to reduce the odds of a critical hit being devastating.
Peace is that glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.
--Thomas Jefferson
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ghostrider
02/25/14 01:35 AM
24.30.128.72
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theres a use for atns super tanks. Holding the companys master c3 computers. Each lance needs a masterc3 while the company needs 2 masters c3. I guess that could be an excuse for them.
Without using c3 in the whole company, having a mech that is packed with the required masters is not worth having.
Now there is a question. Can a c3 system work with just a lance tied together?
If you can use just a lance, then coming up with a variant that carries the master but arm it with long range weapons would be a thought.
Don't think I'm pushing for you do make one. It is just a thought.
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KamikazeJohnson
02/25/14 01:49 AM
50.72.218.68
|
As long as you have at least 2 C3-equipped units, one of them with a Master, you can have a C3 network. And don't worry, I'm going to have at least one design that uses a C3 Master, either as a main or as a variant.
Peace is that glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.
--Thomas Jefferson
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ghostrider
02/25/14 01:58 AM
24.30.128.72
|
The only reason I was asking about the double heat sinks was maybe lowering the price of the unit.
There is nothing wrong with a cold mech.
One thought would be keep the lrm 10, and add a few lasers. But that could be a variant.
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KamikazeJohnson
02/25/14 02:04 AM
50.72.218.68
|
Quote:
The only reason I was asking about the double heat sinks was maybe lowering the price of the unit.
There is nothing wrong with a cold mech.
One thought would be keep the lrm 10, and add a few lasers. But that could be a variant.
That was my original thought...add a couple MLs instead if upgrading the LRM. Perhaps a better variant would add a AMS or two to protect it against return fire, which should be mostly LRMs.
Peace is that glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.
--Thomas Jefferson
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ghostrider
02/25/14 02:08 AM
24.30.128.72
|
If it is after panthers, srm would be the main close in weapon. Still works. Ppc fire for long range. But that is against combine.
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KamikazeJohnson
02/25/14 04:41 AM
50.72.218.68
|
Firestarter FS 9-JM
Mass: 35 tons
Tech Base: Inner Sphere
Chassis Config: Biped
Rules Level: Tournament Legal
Era: Succession Wars
Tech Rating/Era Availability: E/X-X-E-A
Production Year: 3050
Cost: 6,804,900 C-Bills
Battle Value: 1,083
Chassis: Unknown Endo-Steel
Power Plant: Unknown 245 Fusion XL Engine
Walking Speed: 75.6 km/h (86.4 km/h)
Maximum Speed: 118.8 km/h (129.6 km/h)
Jump Jets: Unknown
Jump Capacity: 210 meters
Armor: Unknown Standard Armor w/ CASE
Armament:
3 Medium Lasers
4 Flamers
2 Machine Guns
1 Guardian ECM Suite
Manufacturer: Unknown
Primary Factory: Unknown
Communications System: Unknown
Targeting and Tracking System: Unknown
================================================================================
Equipment Type Rating Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Endo-Steel 58 points 2.00
Internal Locations: 2 LT, 4 LA, 4 RA, 2 LL, 2 RL
Engine: XL Fusion Engine 245 6.00
Walking MP: 7 (8)
Running MP: 11 (12)
Jumping MP: 7 Standard
Jump Jet Locations: 4 LT, 3 RT 3.50
Heat Sinks: Double Heat Sink 10(20) 0.00
Heat Sink Locations: 1 RT
Gyro: Standard 3.00
Cockpit: Standard 3.00
Actuators: L: SH+UA+LA R: SH+UA+LA
TSM Locations: 3 LA, 3 RA
Armor: Standard Armor AV - 112 7.00
CASE Locations: 1 RT 0.50
Internal Armor
Structure Factor
Head 3 9
Center Torso 11 16
Center Torso (rear) 5
L/R Torso 8 12
L/R Torso (rear) 4
L/R Arm 6 10
L/R Leg 8 15
================================================================================
Equipment Location Heat Critical Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Medium Laser RA 3 1 1.00
Flamer RA 3 1 1.00
Medium Laser LA 3 1 1.00
Flamer LA 3 1 1.00
Machine Gun RT 0 1 0.50
Machine Gun LT 0 1 0.50
Guardian ECM Suite LT 0 2 1.50
Flamer CT 3 1 1.00
(R) Flamer CT 3 1 1.00
Medium Laser HD 3 1 1.00
@MG (1/2) (100) RT - 1 0.50
Free Critical Slots: 0
BattleForce Statistics
MV S (+0) M (+2) L (+4) E (+6) Wt. Ov Armor: 4 Points: 11
7j 3 2 0 0 1 0 Structure: 2
Special Abilities: TSM, ECM, CASE, HT1, SRCH, ES, SEAL, SOA
DESIGN NOTES:
Really didn't know what to do with this one. XL Engine + Endo Steel saved 7
tons, and sure, there's no shortage of ways to beef up the firepower, but what
would be the best choice in line with the Firestarter's rather specialized
role?
Not really a Scout, so the Beagle Probe on the official upgrade didn't sit well
with me, but the protection of an ECM Suite seemed attractive. CASE to protect
the MG Ammo (reduced to 1/2 ton). Spending 2 tons to boost speed and jump
range seemed a prudent choice, allows it to get in position quickly, and
withdraw easily to friendly territory. Another 1.5 tons towards armour,
bringing coverage to near-maximum, leaving one ton. I eventually decided on a
third ML...I figured a 5th Flamer would just be overkill, and it's not like it
needs any more anti-Infantry, so I went with the obvious.
Even with DHS, the Firestarter is left with some significant overheat, so I
used the remaining 6 crits to install TSM. If forced to fight, the TSM should
activate fairly readily, helping the Firestarter do some serious damage with
boosted physicals, or escape with the increase in speed.
I'll admit it: at this tonnage range, I'm much happier about putting XL Engines
on the non-direct-combat units. Light 'Mechs just can't mount enough armour to
be safe enough from Engine hits in the side torsos. My opinion. And I don't
always stick to it...
Peace is that glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.
--Thomas Jefferson
|
KamikazeJohnson
02/25/14 04:46 AM
50.72.218.68
|
Quote:
If I recall the valkyrie was supposed to be a davion mech made to hunt panthers of the combine.
Interesting. Considering it's very poorly suited to that task. The LRM 10 with only 12 shots can't do enough damage to take down a Panther. Plus the Panther's PPC is a much more effective weapon at range, and has no ammo limitations. And the Panther massively outguns the Valkyrie at close range: the SRM 4 neats the ML, plus the PPC can be fired in close much better than the LRM. All the Valkyrie can do very well vs a Panther is run away...
Peace is that glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.
--Thomas Jefferson
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ghostrider
02/25/14 05:30 AM
24.30.128.72
|
Sorry. I thought it was in the house davion book or the tro:3025. I was wrong about being made to hunt panthers. That is my mistake.
As for the firestarter, I doubt you will fire the rear facing flamer with the other weapons and a jump, so overheating shouldn't be that big of a problem.
Granted without hand acutators, I don't think physicals is a great idea. Yes you have a kick, but a bad positioning or a miss might be bad for it. But it works well.
Maybe do a version that doesn't use the expensive xl engine.
And honestly with a jump of 7, it should not be in a hand to hand position very long. It should not be in range of the flamers for long either.
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Karagin
02/25/14 06:14 AM
70.118.139.48
|
The Val looks good, nice update to a work horse mech.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey
02/25/14 06:20 AM
208.54.86.203
|
Quote:
The one no one has been waiting for...
LOL
Why argue if the glass is half full or half empty, when you know someone is going to knock it over and spill it anyways.
I was a Major *pain* before
But I got a promotion.
I am now a General *pain*
Yay for promotions!!!
|
His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey
02/25/14 06:36 AM
208.54.86.203
|
I have always thought the only thing a firestarter was good for was to hunt for ammo dumps and to burn them.
And that job can be done by a vehicle scout with a shoulder launched twin SRM inferno.
Why argue if the glass is half full or half empty, when you know someone is going to knock it over and spill it anyways.
I was a Major *pain* before
But I got a promotion.
I am now a General *pain*
Yay for promotions!!!
|
ghostrider
02/25/14 06:50 AM
24.30.128.72
|
Firestarters are good for controlling the way heat heavy units move in forests. Start fires in the way you don't want them to go. If you can, you torch the overheated mechs, though I thought this was stupid in a way.
Why would you want to be near say, an archer that is overheated to begin with, then cook it some more. The ammo explosion would rip thru your mech as well.
But that is using physics.
Against vehicles, this mech and its flame throwers are dangerous.
Still wondering why a tank doesn't explode like a mech does and damages anything in it's hex, like a mech that just kicked it.
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Karagin
02/25/14 10:12 AM
70.118.139.48
|
Firestarters work really well in cities and forest.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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KamikazeJohnson
02/25/14 11:14 AM
50.72.218.68
|
I had thought about adding an LRM 5 and a ton of Thunder missiles for laying mines, but I couldn't remember when those were introduced.
Peace is that glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.
--Thomas Jefferson
|
Retry
02/25/14 11:43 AM
72.214.204.166
|
Smoke ammo works pretty well.
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Cray
02/25/14 06:35 PM
71.47.122.85
|
Quote:
I had thought about adding an LRM 5 and a ton of Thunder missiles for laying mines, but I couldn't remember when those were introduced.
3030s or 3040s. It was an easy item to recover.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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Cray
02/25/14 06:39 PM
71.47.122.85
|
Quote:
CASE can't hurt and it's a big improvement in protecting the mech for salvage.
Seconded.
30-ton designs tend to fail fast, but non-XL 'Mechs can lose limbs and torso and remain upright. No CASE and the whole torso is likely gone in one bang, which is a problem with or without XLs.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
|
His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey
02/25/14 09:06 PM
208.54.38.208
|
Quote:
Firestarters work really well in cities and forest.
Yes lets kill tens of thousands to hundreds of thousands of civilians wail burning a city to the ground. Yea that will go over well in your war crime trial, for the prosecutor's case that is! And then the wining side gits to spend trillions of C-Bills to rebuild the city that you burned to the ground.
Burning down entire forests creates a great economic hardship for which ever side wins. That's also a bad idea, but the good news is you wont be put in front of a firing squad for crimes against humanity.
I have always seen flamers as a very bad choice for a weapon because of the extreme collateral damage that cant be avoided.
Why argue if the glass is half full or half empty, when you know someone is going to knock it over and spill it anyways.
I was a Major *pain* before
But I got a promotion.
I am now a General *pain*
Yay for promotions!!!
|
Cray
02/25/14 09:17 PM
71.47.122.85
|
Quote:
Quote:
Firestarters work really well in cities and forest.
Yes lets kill tens of thousands to hundreds of thousands of civilians wail burning a city to the ground.
The Succession Wars did just that. Actually, the First and Second Succession Wars tended to work with nuclear weapons. The heroic and freedom-loving forces of the Federated Suns nuked Sarna from 9 billion to 2 billion in a lazy afternoon. Taught those evil Capellans a lesson, right?
Quote:
Yea that will go over well in your war crime trial, for the prosecutor's case that is!
How many US B-29 bomber crews were charged with war crimes for dropping incendiary weapons on Japanese civilians?
There's always been a time and a place for incendiary weapons in war. Sometimes its burning out a bunker, or a field of grain, or getting a smoke screen going. Sometimes its to bring the enemy to their knees. In that last case, the decision as to whether or not the firebombing is a war crime depends on who wins the war.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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ghostrider
02/25/14 09:23 PM
24.30.128.72
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Isn't that always the case.
As was said, kill one, your a murders. Kill 10,000 and your a conqueror.
Now here is a question donkey.
What is the difference from using a flamer to kill a city verses any other weapon that starts a fire and burns it down?
Most people don't deal with fires when playing battle tech. One simple thing like a gas main blowing up could very well destroy the city.
Yes, the firestarter mech is designed to burn things.
As for the bomber example cray brought up.
How many government leaders have been charged with war crimes for ordering the use of incendiaries?
Only the ones that get revolts pulling them out of power.
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