Bob_Richter
08/13/02 03:51 AM
4.35.174.250
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>>>And I asked you WHICH BOOK? The Field Manual or the Sourcebook?<<<
And I told you. Go back and read the post again. It's plainly stated, and not my fault that you missed it.
>>>And again I point you to Explore Corps as to were a large amount of the Mercenary troops went...<<<
Not at all. First of all, that's well-known. Second, the Explorer Corps aren't using THAT many units.
>>>so I can't see them taking one world let alone several and hold them for any length of time...<<<
With TWENTY REGIMENTS, you can't imagine them taking ONE WORLD?
>>>so let's leave it at that before we have a flame war... <<<
The only way we'll have a flame war is if you start it, and it will be quite one-sided.
>>>No Peter did not.<<<
Yes, he did. Go back and read the post again. (I'm getting sick of saying this.)
>>>All he proved was that there is NO WAY the WoB can do what is being claimed of them...<<<
Um. He was arguing against you. Quite effectively, in fact. Go back and...well, you know. Don't make me say it again.
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter
Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
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Chas
08/13/02 02:12 PM
66.187.6.15
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And here I thought you knew your BT universe. (Just kidding.)
Where are the two places in the universe that someone who needs mech-sized muscle can go to when they need it?
Together, the first letters of these system names spell GO.
---
"High necked fashions just became the IN thing here on Tharkad."
-- Morgan Kell
-- Grave Covenant
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Karagin
08/13/02 02:42 PM
63.173.170.43
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Once more there ARE NOT ENOUGH CANON Merc units for them to hire...then there are the transportation problems along with money issues etc...
Sorry, but I am not buying this idea that they can attack any of the House and actually do any damage that warrants the rise of Stone and his ROS....but I am very sure we will have some trite and contrived plot reason as to WHY they can and so I guess we are stuck with it...
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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realworldviews
08/13/02 04:21 PM
24.98.65.7
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Why are you continuing to point out "CANON MERCENARIES"?
Heck, in the FM:Mercs they pointed out that the Mecrs listed in the book where only a small portion of the total Merc units in the IS. The ones noted where only the more well know units.
There are thousands of Merc units available, and ranging in size from single warriors to lance all the way up to battlion size. And that doesn't even include outcast clanners.
Colonel Brian Davis
Gamers United
"Dreams become reality, for all who start off with a dream"
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Karagin
08/13/02 05:51 PM
63.173.170.195
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I am pointing it out because not all of the merc units are unemployed and for the WoB to get the needed man power from merc units they would have to hire every unit that is not all ready under the employment of a house or business group.
Then comes the issue of payment...and seeing how the hiring of large numbers of mercs would mean large amounts of money NOT going into buying of mechs and other items...so the issues that I have raised keep coming up and so far no one has yet countered them to the point that clearly shows that WoB has the reasources to pull off their Jihad in any form.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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PeterSmith
08/13/02 05:54 PM
4.17.223.29
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"Once more there ARE NOT ENOUGH CANON Merc units for them to hire"
You seem to have that thought embedded into your brain. Where, praytell, is there a complete list of all the mercenary units in BattleTech? Please cite book and page, just so the rest of us can confirm.
Peter Smith
Power corrupts. Absolute power is kinda neat.
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Karagin
08/13/02 05:56 PM
63.173.170.195
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Think about it...if WoB hired every unit not employed by a House or ComStar they would NOT have any money left to pay for ammo, food, medical supplies, or even transport of their army any where...
And even with all of the smaller merc units hired most of them are not going to be up to the task of fighting house units...they are broken or low rated for a reason.
So how about you confrim or post where they are getting the manpower, money and resources to pull it off and that will end it....
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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PeterSmith
08/13/02 06:11 PM
4.17.223.29
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"So how about you confrim or post where they are getting the manpower, money and resources to pull it off and that will end it...."
And blow my NDA as well as any future opportunity to write for the game? Sorry Karagin, that's not going to happen. My girlfriend doesn't even get to see what I write, and there's no way you rate higher than her on my importance scale.
Peter Smith
Power corrupts. Absolute power is kinda neat.
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Karagin
08/13/02 06:16 PM
63.173.170.195
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Great! Glad to hear it...now how about letting folks express their disbelief in the WoB Jihad...or is that not allowed?
I have given you the reasons I don't think they can pull it off. Money, manpower, material and reasources are not there...you disagree and at the same time have info that I and others don't have so telling me I am wrong without giving anything to back it up is really not doing anything more then arguing.
So let's get back to talking about the topic and less on the flames and other crap.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
Edited by Karagin (08/13/02 08:27 PM)
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Nightward
08/13/02 06:31 PM
210.50.61.253
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Nevertheless, you were a tad confrontational to me in my post as well. Perhaps it would be for the best if you did not reply to each other's posts? I'm not taking sides here- I feel both of you are equally stupid for prosecuting this feud. But you do both have interesting opinions, so I'll listen to what you have to say.
Yea, verily. Let it be known far and wide that Nightward loathes MW: DA. Indeed, it is with the BURNING ANIMUS OF A THOUSAND SUNS that he doth rage against it with.
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ErichRaulfestone
08/13/02 06:52 PM
164.76.107.178
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Hmm, I see I notice no reply tothe question at hand here.... nothing new.
Erich Raulfestone
Rangers, Lead the Way!
Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, "Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?"
And I said, "Here am I. Send me!"
Isaiah 6:8
......and I went......
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Bob_Richter
08/13/02 06:57 PM
4.35.174.250
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>>>Nevertheless, you were a tad confrontational to me in my post as well.<<<
I'm sorry if you felt I was overly confrontational.That goes for Karagin, too.
>>>I feel both of you are equally stupid for prosecuting this feud.<<<
I have no problem with Karagin.
>>>Perhaps it would be for the best if you did not reply to each other's posts? <<<
And I'm not going to ignore him just because he has a problem with me.
Anyway, we're way off-topic here.
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter
Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
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novakitty
08/13/02 09:32 PM
209.242.100.230
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You demand a man break a contract just to win your favor in an argument? I expect that the authors are wise enough to avoid a miraculous, unexplained increase in resources. I also expect that there is much more covert WOB than you are willing to consider. The best way to win a war is to arrange that your opponent does not even realize you are attacking, this means hiding plans, resources, and size until as late in the battle as possible. However, the best way to defend is to loundly proclaim your abundance of forces, whether true or not. Fear and surprise are two of the greatest weapons in war.
The moral of the above rant is: "There is always more than you can see at first, only patience, contacts, and/or the best of stealth training will get you the answers you seek."
meow
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Karagin
08/13/02 10:10 PM
63.173.170.16
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No I don't demand anything other then those that have info not readially aviable to the rest of us stop dropping hints or making demands...
I posted the topic to get ideas and see how folks felt, NOT for TPTB to walk all over those who don't believe that a group who has more infighting then a guild of thives can pull off something this big.
Now if Peter is going to make demands then I can too...but you see I have listed what I feel are the problem areas, it's not my fault that is missed by the folks wanting to argue.
So can we now go back to the topic please...
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Nightmare
08/14/02 01:47 AM
194.251.240.106
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Who says you have to PAY those stupid mercs at all? Just enlist them, then break up the units and volunteer the individuals to regular WOB militia units  "What? You don`t want to fight for Glorious Blake? BLAM! Now, does anyone else have a problem with this?" Hey, it`s the WOB version of the war to end all wars, so who cares about the methods? All will be forgiven when Great Blake is victorious.
Some of the larger units might be too much trouble to break up, so just send them into the grinder wholesale. Preferably against someone who won`t show them any mercy, so they`ll have to fight like rats all the way.
Advice for Evil Overlords:
My legions of terror will be trained in basic marksmanship. Any who cannot learn to hit a man-sized target at 10 meters will be used for target practice.
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Greyslayer
08/14/02 01:53 AM
216.14.192.226
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One problem with that ... Wolfnet. If Wolfnet picks up something like you suggested happening at anywhere above a low level then WOB would have trouble being able to recruit any units through the Bonding Commission after this. Galatea mercs are a whole different kettle of fish though....
Greyslayer
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novakitty
08/14/02 07:41 AM
209.242.100.230
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If all went as WOB planned, there would be no "after this"
meow
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Chas
08/14/02 11:59 AM
66.187.6.61
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In reply to:
Once more there ARE NOT ENOUGH CANON Merc units for them to hire
Who said anything about canon mercs? And what about the hundreds of other unnamed mercs? The demi companies, the guys with the less than savory reps who nobody likes to talk about. The tough guys with a mech and not much else.
As for transport issues. This is the WOB we're talking about here. They've been skimming vast sums of money from the FWL for the past how many years? Not to mention they control Terra, and HOW many shipyards?
The WOB is not some tiny group of fanatics with no friends. They have EXTENSIVE resources.
---
"High necked fashions just became the IN thing here on Tharkad."
-- Morgan Kell
-- Grave Covenant
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Chas
08/14/02 12:03 PM
66.187.6.61
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Question: Who are the unnamed merc units employed to? And how long have they been on retainer?
Do you think the WOB is going to go "WE'RE BUYING ANY MERCENARY UNIT WHO'LL WORK FOR US! MONEYMONEYMONEY!" and being OBVIOUS?
The WOB is CRAZY, not STUPID.
The WOB has access to vast (VAST) sums of money. And lots and lots of technology and production facilities.
---
"High necked fashions just became the IN thing here on Tharkad."
-- Morgan Kell
-- Grave Covenant
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Karagin
08/14/02 12:05 PM
63.173.170.49
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As I have said before the issues of money, materials and resources have NOT been answered and if they were to do as is being told to us then they would be broke.
So when the rabbit is pulled out of the hat I am sure it will be as far fetched as mech factories poping up out of thin air...
And again even if they hire the smaller lance size merc units and they actually get all of them, the issue of money and transport comes up again...
So I am sorry but I don't see how the WoB can pull this one off, but you and your buddies seem to think they can and thus it will happen...
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Chas
08/14/02 12:07 PM
66.187.6.61
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Put it this way Karagin. Peter is in a position to KNOW (not just guess, as you're doing). And he's disagreeing with you.
Look up. Has the little lightbulb on on yet?
---
"High necked fashions just became the IN thing here on Tharkad."
-- Morgan Kell
-- Grave Covenant
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Karagin
08/14/02 12:08 PM
63.173.170.49
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Sure they have vast sums of money...the same sums that are buying up whole production runs of mechs and paying for all the food and other supplies for their supposed army...right they have a lot of money...no doubt they have enough that they can do anything they want...in fact I am willing to bet with all this money they can conquer the IS and the Clans...not. 
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Karagin
08/14/02 12:10 PM
63.173.170.49
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Let me put it this way to you...Given that he has info I and the other non-WK/FP workers don't have his comments are set up to bait...
If he has the info then he SHOULD NOT be comment as if we should already have the same since all it's going to do is cause folks to get upset or something will slip and then there will be a problem.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Chas
08/14/02 12:10 PM
66.187.6.61
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In reply to:
Hmm, I see I notice no reply tothe question at hand here.... nothing new
Stop looking for a fight Erich.
Karagin asked him to do something that would violate his NDA. He declined, as he wishes to write for CBT in the future.
It was very much to the point.
---
"High necked fashions just became the IN thing here on Tharkad."
-- Morgan Kell
-- Grave Covenant
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Chas
08/14/02 12:17 PM
66.187.6.61
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Who says that it's anywhere above a very low level?
Who ever stated that WOB went on a hire-fest in a short period of time? The WOB has been in existence and siphoning money from the FWL for how long now? 15+ years?
THey've been in control of Terra for how long now? 10+ years?
If you hire a few merc units every couple months, over the course of 15 years. What's going to tip WolfNet off? It'll look just like random hiring. Which every majjor faction in the universe does.
---
"High necked fashions just became the IN thing here on Tharkad."
-- Morgan Kell
-- Grave Covenant
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Karagin
08/14/02 12:17 PM
63.173.170.49
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Hey Chas...who made you knight earrant around here?
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Karagin
08/14/02 12:20 PM
63.173.170.49
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All this money you keep talking about that you claim they have has to pay for everything...from mechs to manpower and all the little things inbetween...so they DON'T have unlimited ammounts to do all things claimed of them to launch this Jihad....maybe you and the others behind this idea really need to go and look at the issues of logistics and transportion of all of this and really think about it...because as it's given right now WoB should be broke finanically from this little venture.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Chas
08/14/02 12:22 PM
66.187.6.61
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Karagin. How much was the WOB making off their commission (plus skimming) in the FWL. Also, what else have they been doing to bring in money?
Do YOU know?
It was addressed in one of the last books. The WOB SHOULD be broke. But they aren't. And they seem to have money coming out their ears. What does this tell you?
As for transport. Transport isn't an issue if the money issue isn't an issue. They can afford to hire transport.
And how much technology is the WOB privy to? Who says that some of these small units accepted CASH? Could not some of them been refitted?
---
"High necked fashions just became the IN thing here on Tharkad."
-- Morgan Kell
-- Grave Covenant
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Karagin
08/14/02 12:23 PM
63.173.170.49
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What it tells me is the add water get what ever you need line of thinking is still around...
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Chas
08/14/02 12:27 PM
66.187.6.61
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In reply to:
his comments are set up to bait...
Simply because he disagreed with you? If someone has money in their hand, and you get told "no" when you ask for some of it, is that person baiting you?
Something was pointed out to you (by me). You disagreed, and all he did was go "you haven't really looked at this from all angles yet".
As to folks getting upset. That's their problem. If they're going to get hysterical over a game, I'm not responsible for it. Nor is Peter.
---
"High necked fashions just became the IN thing here on Tharkad."
-- Morgan Kell
-- Grave Covenant
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