Chas
08/15/02 06:41 PM
66.187.6.36
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Question. Do you have any idea how much business the FWL was doing in the 13 years since they took over contract negotiations for the FWL? And from their HPG assets? Not to mention the fact that they're trading technology for production in both the FWL and the CC (as well as in the Periphery nations).
As for shipping them somewhere, who said they shipped them anywhere? Or if they did, was it or was it not under less threatening auspices. And who said that anyplace they were shipped was "super-secret"?
Read up in the FC:CW book about what happens after Group W lands on Galatea.
Also, remember that the WOB is a bunch of rabid frothing loonies. Who says they used Mercs at all? There ARE other ways to pacify an enemy.
And, in the event that said mercs WERE hired, how many of them do you think would REALISTICALLY survive a full-on assault to collect the balance of their payment?
You already have enough clues to work it out for yourself. Get working.
---
"High necked fashions just became the IN thing here on Tharkad."
-- Morgan Kell
-- Grave Covenant
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Chas
08/15/02 06:44 PM
66.187.6.36
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In reply to:
Sorry but with the given facts from the source material that is out NONE of it supports WoB having anything near enough of a force to do anything on scale of this Jihad we are expect to believe.
That's only because you haven't dug into the source material deeply enough yet.
Also, not everything has been been written out in advance. There are some things that are still unsaid yet about this event.
---
"High necked fashions just became the IN thing here on Tharkad."
-- Morgan Kell
-- Grave Covenant
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Greyslayer
08/15/02 07:14 PM
63.12.141.39
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Actually payment is still required. In fact the money is held in a trust fund UNTIL the completion of the contract or the unit is paid regularly from it so if WOB try something like this all they end up with is no money back from their actions. Of course everyone seems to be blindly missing this point, they mustn't really play mercs all that often  .
Greyslayer ..... merc and proud of it 
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Nightward
08/15/02 07:31 PM
211.26.2.198
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To lock this thread down now, chief. Everyone's had their say and it is beginning to degenerate into flame war in parts.
Yea, verily. Let it be known far and wide that Nightward loathes MW: DA. Indeed, it is with the BURNING ANIMUS OF A THOUSAND SUNS that he doth rage against it with.
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realworldviews
08/15/02 08:12 PM
24.98.65.7
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This thread is just beginning to get repetitive.
Everyone has an opinion and no one is going to change their opinion anytime soon.
Colonel Brian Davis
Gamers United
"Dreams become reality, for all who start off with a dream"
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realworldviews
08/15/02 08:24 PM
24.98.65.7
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Which book is the FC:CW.
I can't figure out what book that is.
Colonel Brian Davis
Gamers United
"Dreams become reality, for all who start off with a dream"
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realworldviews
08/15/02 08:26 PM
24.98.65.7
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The trust fund is only for the Mercs hired on Outreach. I would think that many of the Mercs hired would not be from Outreach.
Colonel Brian Davis
Gamers United
"Dreams become reality, for all who start off with a dream"
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Greyslayer
08/15/02 08:50 PM
63.12.141.39
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That is where the best in experience and the best in equipment are based. It is also the biggest hiring hall in the IS. I would say alot of units go through there or use the system of say having a third party holding the money in trust until the completion of the contract (a few if any would trust the WOB to be the third party if WOB decided to use phoney employers anyway). I would say even alot of the house merc units (such as those that go through the Mercenary Liason Office on New Avalon for house Davion) would still have the Dragoons method to ensure payment (especially in this time of brother vs sister FedCom-LyrAl War).
Greyslayer
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Chas
08/15/02 08:56 PM
66.187.6.70
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Actually, this is the way it works on Outreach, through the MRBC. It's not necessarily how it will work on Galatea.
And for "realworldviews".
FC:CW (FedCom Civil War)
---
"High necked fashions just became the IN thing here on Tharkad."
-- Morgan Kell
-- Grave Covenant
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Chas
08/15/02 09:01 PM
66.187.6.70
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Correction: Outreach is where the "most respected" hiring hall is. Of course, this doesn't mean that deals that circumvent the MRBC don't take place. There's always units that have really bad MRBC unit ratings, and find a hard time getting "decent" employment. Some of these units, depending on how desperate they are, will agree to sub-rosa dealings if they feel the payment is worth the risks.
Also, AFAIK, the old ComStar/(WOB?) mercenary hiring board is still in place. Or at least I've never read where it'd been dismantled. Merely that it was surpassed by the MRBC on Outreach.
---
"High necked fashions just became the IN thing here on Tharkad."
-- Morgan Kell
-- Grave Covenant
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Greyslayer
08/15/02 09:04 PM
63.12.141.39
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Last information on Galatea isn't likely to have a large number of unit with any real number of operation mechs in them (considering they are not even good enough to go to Outreach). This would be where you would find at best 'C' style Wolf Dragoon rated mercs but mostly they would be 'D' and 'F'. This still doesn't stop them from using the method of having a third party holding the cash especially when they are directly working for WOB (or for a unknown employer). Money can be a tough mistress but I would still say they would need alot more than Galatea can ever offer from 3052-3070.
Greyslayer
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masdog5
08/15/02 10:34 PM
205.213.145.132
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Well, what do you want for it then? Do you want FP and WK to publish how the WOB pulls it off before the books come out?
Its going to happen according to the gods of the Battletech universe, whether you like it or not.
Stop thinking inside the box and try to plan out a Jihad like this yourself. Do you need alot of money to pull it off? Not if you plan it correctly. If I remember my FM:CC correctly, the Death Commandos were able to take a world in a week...and they only used their mechs on the last day.
Like I said in my earlier post, this Jihad could start quietly by having the WOB conquer worlds in the chaos march. The Houses could look the other way because 2 of them are recovering from a civil war, another from a conflict with CGB, and FWL and CC working with them. This would give the WOB PLENTY OF TIME to build up the resources nessecary to attack the the great houses.
Historically, this is how World War 2 started. Hitler slowly added regions to Germany while the rest of the world looked away because of their own problems.
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Karagin
08/15/02 11:26 PM
65.133.242.73
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Right....I haven't dug deep enough...oksy sure if you say so...I forgot you are always right and no one can buck the company line... 
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Karagin
08/15/02 11:29 PM
65.133.242.73
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What I would like is that those who have knowledge of events to come to stop dropping hints or jumping into a discussion and telling folks they are wrong in what they believe. If they would stop doing that then there would be little room for arguements and such.
It seems that none of those in the know want anyone speculating about things especially if they don't agree with the comming events...so that is what I want.
As for the rest, it's an interesting idea and thank you sharing it.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Karagin
08/15/02 11:31 PM
65.133.242.73
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The point is even with the money skimmed from the FWL they DON'T have enough to do all that is being claimed.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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masdog5
08/15/02 11:57 PM
205.213.145.132
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'It seems that none of those in the know want anyone speculating about things especially if they don't agree with the comming events...so that is what I want.'
Then why start a thread on it?
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Karagin
08/16/02 12:01 AM
65.133.242.73
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Becaue I was looking for FAN input on how they felt about it and what they thought...thus talking about it should allow everyone to get an understanding of things and allow those who feel it's not possible to share that and to allow those who think it is to do the same and at the same time share ideas on HOW they see events unfolding with the hope that this helps generate ideas for some to use in their game...
But I guess that is wrong in the eyes of those who are in the Know.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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masdog5
08/16/02 12:21 AM
205.213.145.132
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From my perspective....and this is one of very little experience on these boards....it seems that whenever anyone throws out an idea in this thread, you shoot it down immediately.
I'm not saying the powers at be are right for squashing discussion about the upcoming Jihad. Thats farthest from the truth.
But it doesnt make it right for you to do the same thing they are trying to do.
Personally, I would prefer it if you had a reason to debunk any ideas, since that is all we can have until the book actually comes out, come up with reasons besides its not canon, so it cant be true. Offer ideas of your own, too...and I dont give a [deleted] if CBT and MW:DA staff dont like it.
As fans, we do have a right to discuss the BT universe. Especially in one that is as fan-driven as BT. If we didnt, we wouldnt have these posting boards.
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Karagin
08/16/02 12:26 AM
65.133.242.73
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I have expressed my points on why I don't think they can pull it off. Cash being one of them, logistical problems, manpower being the others as well as the covert end to hide all of this.
Now I am not trying to shoot anyone down, I am just trying to point out that things don't match what is being feed to us based on game facts. You are correct we don't know everything, and that is why I asked the question. To get ideas and if I came over as smacking down ideas, I am sorry, not what I was trying to do, what I was trying to do is get folks to look beyond the simple and really LOOK at things and then hope they see more of my point or something else and share that. That on top of getting folks to share ideas and maybe help give ideas to others was the main reasons...
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Karagin
08/16/02 12:30 AM
65.133.242.73
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I would guess he is talking about the soon to be released FedCom Civil War Sourcebook...but I could be wrong.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Nightward
08/16/02 12:40 AM
210.50.57.145
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...are not the same. Whilst I personally agree with your views, the fact is that you abused other posters, and even a Moderator. Chas provides the hosting for this site; it is probably a bad idea to annoy him. If you truly wanted to exchange opinions and provide information, you could have done so in a much less confrontational way.
I really think it would be a good idea if no more threads on the theme of "and this is why MW:DA is evil" should be started.
Yea, verily. Let it be known far and wide that Nightward loathes MW: DA. Indeed, it is with the BURNING ANIMUS OF A THOUSAND SUNS that he doth rage against it with.
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Karagin
08/16/02 12:42 AM
65.133.242.73
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First off this is not about MWDA it is about the WOB Jihad.
Second, if telling Chas that I don't agree with is dangerous well that's between him and me and Nic.
As for being abusive, that can be worked on but it's a two way street...
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Greyslayer
08/16/02 01:10 AM
216.14.192.226
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The last peice of data I have on Galatea was in the novel Star Lord. Since as such it was not a main plot novel nor do anyone seriously consider that book 'canon' its up to the person to decide if the info in it is correct.
From the Novel the planet has really gone down hill since Outreach took over as the main hiring hall. Since the novel was set in the late 3050's this should help prove my point, all the mechs there were 3025 mechs lucky to be functioning at times. Comstar has little or no control in this environment either more like a 'free-market' place where everyone has their hand on their sidearm. It has what can be loosely called arenas as well. I didn't find a large number of units in this novel on the planet.
Greyslayer
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Greyslayer
08/16/02 01:15 AM
216.14.192.226
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'If I remember my FM:CC correctly, the Death Commandos were able to take a world in a week...and they only used their mechs on the last day.'
That is hardly what I call a good source for information to prove your point. This is like my lower post about the information in the Novel Star Lord, people don't have to accept the information contained in the book (particularly the FM:CC rubbish ... even the novel Star Lord is better than that).
Greyslayer
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masdog5
08/16/02 01:17 AM
205.213.145.132
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What about the WOB meeting up with Clan Wolverine somewhere out in the Perphery? As a group (if it still exists), it could provide the needed units and other logistical concerns.
Plus, there could be motivation. If they captured Terra, they would embaress the other clans since an abjured one was able to do what the true clans couldnt.
Just another theory.
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masdog5
08/16/02 01:20 AM
205.213.145.132
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Thats a good point. Should I question all the FMs then?
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Greyslayer
08/16/02 01:35 AM
216.14.192.226
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That is purely up to you. Personally the only FM I have is the Mercs one and it didn't impress me much anyway.
Greyslayer ... member of the Mercs don't use XL engines group.
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Bob_Richter
08/16/02 03:57 AM
4.35.174.250
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Karagin, you'd say that even if we proved (by canon example.) they had enough money to raise a thousand regiments. You're just being contrary. The canon doesn't support you.
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter
Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
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realworldviews
08/16/02 10:03 AM
24.98.65.7
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Thats my guess.
Colonel Brian Davis
Gamers United
"Dreams become reality, for all who start off with a dream"
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masdog5
08/16/02 11:18 AM
205.213.145.132
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The Canon doenst support anyone at this point. It hasnt been released yet.
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