Karagin
07/19/22 05:53 PM
70.118.172.64
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Us ALT people? No, we are asking for the ALT to see what you offer Reqiuem, so we know what to expect. Just as with canon, we can see it and refer back to it since it is the facts of the game.
Now, as have others, we have both said that we don't always agree with stuff in the game. There are a lot of things I don't like that Battletech does. Some are easier to ignore and toss out; others I grin and bear it, as needs to be done because I do like the overall universe. And I do have my own ALT, but I am not trying to force mine on anyone as canonical fact or push it as the only way to go. That is what you are doing. We have tried several times to get you to understand the whys and hows of things, and you keep going right back to your ALT, throwing things from it at us, yet, we don't have a copy of it, so we can't even compare it to canon to even follow all of your points.
Again, I am asking; please post your ALT version of Battletech, let us see it, and look it over; what's the worse that happens? We don't like it? Okay, so what? Others have posted their versions here, and folks have offered ideas, comments, and such. Some have gone on to do things with the comments and suggestions. Others have done nothing with the stuff because it was a one-off project. What is the harm in posting it?
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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ghostrider
07/19/22 08:11 PM
45.51.181.83
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Us alt people means that they believe that everyone that has an alt views the world thru his looking glass and agrees. Or so almost all the posts put up implies.
As been my experience, only one person has stated the vision is the only one that can exist. I have yet to hear anyone else say the same thing.
I do expect others on the site to correct me if I am wrong, or not going things well enough. I believe that is why most have not chimed in on any discussions other then the few times. I do believe most are tired of the same crap that continues to go around, as I am getting tired of it, and I am the one trying to keep it on track.
Now if the fluffy bunny would stop trying to bite my ankles and say they are an alligator, we might get some decent conversation.
But then the universe would collapse in on itself as the evil prince did what was necessary to keep the kingdom in tact, while the good sister tried to destroy it, as she could not stand someone else ruling it.
I don't believe there is a fully scripted alt done up. The perfect logic seems to be corrected with each post showing the flaws in it. Some points seem to be made up on the spot. It appears this is all just to get an argument going.
As with most of the things put up, the logic is bent to a point of this conclusion.
The most likely answers are put up, and yet they can't possible be the reasons for things in the game, as they don't fit this alt. And again, the answer is go to the real BT site and get your answers. The best we can do is give the best answers we have using CANON facts in the canon books. Supposition is the returned replies.
Every session changes something in canon. Even the official fights. That does not mean they are bad. It is when someone demands their game become the official canon is.
Putting up half truths, or out right lies, makes it even worse.
Given the posts, I can see why this alt will never be seen by anyone other then the person who wrote it up. It has alrady been shown by what has been posted that it contradicts itself. As the game is beyond the clan invasion, yet it seems the clan invasion hasn't been written up entirely, shows this.
As I have stated before, those were the last books I got, so am trying to avoid entering conversations beyond that. I can add in things that seem to be logical or missing, but those are more questions for information.
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Requiem
07/19/22 08:52 PM
1.147.102.237
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Let us look at the statement in full
Number of military industrial complexes on a world-to-world basis is dependent upon each world’s … population, education, technology base, economic level etc.
All of which will also determine the size and complexity of the military (available weapon systems) on that world.
Therefore, the simple answer to your enquiry is that if a world does maintain all appropriate requirements then ‘yes’ they will be able to manufacture not only BattleMechs, but also Aerospace Fighters, Warships – i.e. every weapon system available within their House’s armoury that has been provided to them by their Liege Lord.
Sorry to burst your bubble but this game is most definitely a space opera – as the definition includes novels that are set in outer space (tick), typically of a simplistic and melodramatic nature (double tick), and they are also commonly action adventures, of a galactic scale (triple tick).
But the game does not have that – Really? Then what security would you say the defenders of Hesperus II are as well as the defenders upon every capitol world for that matter?
I would have come to conclusion the defenders are whatever the Game-Master wants them to be.
Let us look at the idea of self-sufficiency – what this means is that when a world reaches a certain technological level they are able to create anything at hat level if provided with appropriate education.
Or are you saying that the USA should never have been able to create a shuttle just because ….
Once any world reaches a level of technology with a level of education they WILL BE ABLE to create mechs, dropships, jump-ships, warships, space stations, lunar stations etc.
Saying trade was changed from feeding worlds to just luxury items is not making each an island unto their own – and yet this is exactly what was stated every world is an island unto itself – thus they will have to make everything themselves if they require it!
And yes given technology and education etc. each would will be able to build anything mankind knows.
Being a totally self-sufficient city state does NOT mean there is a large organisation binding themselves to others – Yes there are still large realms within the IS. Why? The Great Reams of the Inner Sphere are similar to Franchises – in that every world is supplied with education, technology, monetary grants etc. via its existing government / corporations – whist at the same time they are provided with a security guarantee in that if invaded with an overwhelming force their Great House will dispatch a relief force to assist in the defence of your world.
Thus stick with my House I will provide everything necessary to increase the social welfare / technological development of your world – whist ensuring your safety and liberty from the enemy.
This is the simplicity of it – something many forget – if they can redevelop all houses worlds via infrastructure / education programs etc whilst bringing in starbucks and every other major corps. – assisted with the change of their agriculture to that which you can also live off, ensured humanitarian rights then provided a guarantee that if any force threatened their new way of life they would step in (and they actually followed through – (rather than sitting on the side lines) and your word has to mean something then they will remain strong and allied to your House.
It was written that she thought the idea was something that could work, but was performed badly. - as I have requested many times and yet have never received – Book and Page No. together with the quote please.
He was NOT replacing the Marik leadership – as stated many times how did the Captain General Thomas Marik know this – all he knew his that his son was dead and Victor had replaced him – all he could do was make a logical assumption as to his actions act accordingly. Again you are making statements based upon total knowledge, you have to actually look at a situation from the point of vies of the character with an absence of total knowledge – the knowledge that this character only knows!
Oh yes Katherine did not steal anything – when Victor abandoned the throne to go play soldier he left her no choice but to take the throne. Who knew if he would ever return?
This just once more shows how much a fool Victor really is.
Artillery positions are ONLY static when they are fixed placed emplacement artillery piece – otherwise they are still on mobile carriages.
And when properly defended on the ground the only real access remaining is via the air!
Always with those Negative Waves - you say the guards don’t always hold like it is a predetermined fact, where as this is no true, the guards may hold - as charging in like a banzai charge is limited to just one house! Others are not so interested in dying just to kill of an artillery piece.
Question – how could I have created many of my forums – Like Victor’s so called proof – if I did not have he books and I had not read them …..
Did anyone think of sending out an exploration group to an old SLDF Medical Facility in the hopes of finding a cure for Joshua?
Or for that matter during the Jihad when the fake Thomas was ousted – did anyone ask him why Joshua was never sent to the WoB Hidden medical world that put the real Thomas back together as a cyborg?
Or for that matter did anyone ask either Jamie Wolf or Snord why Joshua was never allowed into either of their medical facilities?
Surviving the stress of the Jumps is an unknown – though it is still better to try and get him home than never to try at all.
Why send your forces piecemeal to the front lines, when your main weapons are going to take time? The Outworlds alliance has supplied you with the complete TO&E of Amaris and you want to quibble over going in piecemeal – as Commander of the SLDF you have just one duty to save your liege lord and his family asap – if this can be done through a command a circuit as well as using a recurring wave attack strategy based upon attrition warfare then this is what you do!
Or do you also believe that it is better to sit outside and do nothing!
Whom does the spy ship gather information for / work for – the government and the military – hence it is the military … quibbling over who operates it the spy agency or the military is pointless!
Oh and by the way where are the plans for a courier ship?
Thus it is once more up to the prerogative of the game master to make the call – and I have made mine.
Question how do you build a viable colony and how big should that colony be to accept future citizens – so yes they should be that big to establish a viable colony.
Also when was America Colonized and isn’t America on the same planet – have we attempted o even colonize the moon yet or how about Mars – what is being discussed here is colonizing a world who knows how many light years distant who has no communication – thus must be self sufficient from the get go - thus how big should the colony be if stranded and had to fend for themselves before help arrived?
So if you want to fend off with just the basics that is fine with me -however I would rather be prepared for any eventuality – thus I would like to have more.
Drongo ….
Comprehension of what was written may help …
If Joshua died in transit, this means there was no substitute, if there is no substitute then there is no war, no war means Katherine does not gain the Lyran half of the FC etc.
Also if the refit packages stop then the FWL economy stops – it goes from Bull to recession in a heartbeat – mass unemployment on certain worlds as factories are required to shut down, transport businesses cease operating etc. and the domino effect keeps going as people no longer have jobs and are now unable to pay their mortgages ….
Also large corporations and their Boards will no longer be receiving huge profits / bonuses so who are they going to mad at …
Then the Parliament gets involved and ‘requests’ (demands) an explanation as to what is going on ….
The death of his son is sad and yet at the same time Victor did everything within his power and now you want to act like a jerk just because …. Really?
Sorry but this sounds really off the wall that the refit packages would stop …
Also we are in a situation where we all hang together or we all hang separately situation with regards to the clans … so in this situation the FWL should join the SLDF in order to save the IS.
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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ghostrider
07/19/22 10:41 PM
45.51.181.83
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The assumption that all weapons systems are available it the issue. Not off of them would be. Patents would make sure they are not available to any but the particular company that owns those rights. If they are not on world, or have not sold a license to make them, then they can not be produced. So the statement is not entirely true.
Also the original statement sounds like all worlds have the ability to make the same thing, no matter the size of the industry base or knowledge. So the additional information added during the assumption part put in there changes things.
So given your definition, all ground wars are naval wars, even if they do not border any bodies of water that can float a ship. This would also be true when humankind were using rocks and stick to fight, as they might need to cross a river in order to attack each other.
As the game does have wars fought with those that were never in space on either side, such as rebellions, this does not fit.
Again, using the alt to run away from the fact that, as stated, the game does not have that. If it did, it would be in the canon game. Simple logic.
If the game doesn't have the Death star, then the game doesn't have the Death star for canon purposes.
There is no alt involved in that logic.
Self sufficiency is not creating a weapon that will destroy a star. It is what is required to survive at a basic level. That does not even require tractors for farming, as it can be done by hand. Difficult in a lot of soils but possible. You do not need diamond infused armor to be self sufficient. Honestly, you don't even need fossil fuel generators for it either.
According to your responses, all worlds would be educated BEFORE they are self sufficient. So where is this new educational material coming from? Each world is supposed to be on the same level as each other in your posts.
The only thing you are guaranteed to do is live off our hard work, making you coffers full, promising something you can't deliver. A simple NAP and defense pact would remove the need to call someone else leader. Those two things cost far less then being part of a nation, especially if you have a rep of using those under you as fodder for your ambitions. There is no need for a ruler over multiple self sufficient worlds. This is even more true if all can make everything known to mankind. You scream freedom, yet suggest servitude.
How about we just design the world from the start and not have to rebuild it to someone elses vision? Redesigning things is a complete waste of resources and money. Do it right the first time, and again, where is this new educational material coming from? All are equal in tech according to your definition in your responses.
Go reread the books. You obviously didn't read everything, as multiple points are constantly missing from the responses put up. Maybe you can learn why things happen, like how the clans think by learning how they came to it.
Then maybe the discussions would not keep resulting in the fake alt facts being used to try and counter canon facts.
Only one person to date has stated that their view is the only viable solution, or it can't be any other way.
The issue is your statements were not from the game point of view, but your own vision. You said that Victor was killing the child for his own benefit. No where in the books did it say this. You said Victor is a monster for killing a child. That is not an in game view. That is YOUR statement against the character.
Katherine stole the thrones as Victor did not say he bequeathed them into forever when he gave Yvonne the FS throne. He did not give Katherine the throne when she pulled out of the deal. He decided to let the clause go into effect, which may not have even applied to the Archon Prince position after Hanse and Melissa died. I don't see that it would. The agreement was one title for both realms.
And the cop out of they didn't know if he would come back, doesn't mean much as they were not handed back when he did come back.
You think that only the DC sends out forces to silence artillery at all costs? Do you even understand the concept of strategy and tactics? So with this, you think no army has ever or will ever, send forces charging to take an objective? Such as attack a city or even a defended hill? Again. Think before posting.
Your own forums? You mean thread on this site?
Actually reading the books is not the same as skimming them or having someone else paraphrase them. The reading between the lines and comprehending what is written is yet another version of not reading what is there, but projecting your vision into it. The facts are in the books, as well as why they were done. The posts put up shows that something is missing from the supposed reading.
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ghostrider
07/19/22 11:07 PM
45.51.181.83
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Did you think about any facts before posting something like finding an old SL medical facility? Helm should have had a good one, as the Core was gotten from it. Why wasn't that working by the time the clan war came into being? The NAIS was supposed to be the most advanced tech institute in the IS at the time. Comstar should have had better. SO now with that said, do you really think they just said, 'well that facility is far better, but let's send the boy across the IS to a second best'?
Given Thomas was WOB, they should have dealt with the child, and not have even bothered the meeting with it. And all knew Joshua would never return off New Avalon without a miracle.
The other questions have to go to the officials, as there is no answer in the books for that. The fact that the Dragoons were on an SL martial olympiad, should have had the best SL tech if it was still around. Wolf would have brought it back up to par if it survived.
Don't understand war is not fixed numbers? Do you believe the numbers the OA had was accurate? How many survived the invasion? How many were picked up? How old was the OA's information? Did any one send reinforcements in to help remove the SL lord? It isn't like the houses were supporting the Cameron's at the time. It is just as likely to have the houses strike the SLDF in order to remove that from over their heads. And this also has to ask if the SDS systems get shut down, or used against the RWR forces? Will it be used against them? Making sure there were no more reinforcements from the RWR was a priority. Also, getting supplies was another. Do you think they had a fully functioning war machine with their war in the periphery going so badly? I doubt Kerensky has many units even half working at that time, with most of the ones that were, being in the TH at the time of the assassination.
The government controlled the Bugeye. They gave the intel the military needed, but the military did NOT control them. If they had, they would have had far more intel on the periphery, especially the RWR before the downfall.
And as the statements were for canon, it remains that canon did not use them for courier duty. Make your own ship to do so. As stated, the Scout jumpship would work. There were other jumpship designs during the SL that were never shown in the books. One of them could well have been used. Maybe even a secret one that jumps further then 30 Light years.
A viable colony is one that can feed itself, and not rely on imports to survive. As stated before, that does not mean they have to have tractors and high tech to survive. Once it is proven to be able to feed those coming in, then you continue to bring them in, though most of the time, your success will have others looking to move in. Only a very few would be company sponsored. And those would be limited in scope as well. Least amount of losses if something should happen.
The double was to disappear when Thomas was to be told about Joshua. Had they known the blood sample was taken, they would have removed the double and said the blood was fake. Set up a whole thing to cover for it. It would even go as far as Marik personnel taking blood from the real Joshua to show the fake. Would it have worked? I don't have the inside information to see if that plot armor would have worked.
So the FWL was reliant on the FC for their economy, yet went to war with them? How does that work?
The hang together or hand separately doesn't work. The CC never agreed to fighting the clans initially. Only the reformed SL gave them the incentive to do so. And even then, they chose to hit the St. Ives.
The FWL could have sat back and let the FC/DC bleed the clans before getting involved. Then they would have hit the weakened FC worlds on their border in order to reinforce them against the weakened clans. GIven WOB knew what Comstar knew, they had the advantage here. WOB only emerged once the clans were stopped. So all that intel would have been going to Thomas.
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Karagin
07/20/22 12:36 AM
70.118.172.64
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The idea of finding any old SL base, depot, etc...is great. However, let's be real; nothing in there is going to be in full working order. The mechs are going to need a lot of maintenance even to get moving, any ammo has by now dry rotted to nothing. Mold and mildew will have gotten into and on to everything. Computer systems will be damaged, and while salvageable, they are not going to be that easy to work with.
Going to any other country on this planet, you find out fast that most of them do not use 110 as the common voltage for ANYTHING. So a found Star League computer will not be compatible with your Tobshia 9000 Omni Zulu Prime 14 Smartsystem Deluxe. So finding the lost depot or whatever isn't going to be the instant boon the books and stories make it seem like. Not at first. Not the boon comes once you get back to civilization and find a buyer for the tech and hope that a certain angry cult doesn't come after you or a House three letter or four letter group doesn't take an interest in you before you can find buyers like Snord or Chandya etc...
The find of the medical center of SL tech does you about as much good as a mech depot, and nothing will be useable. Noting is clean, nothing is worth that much, and the bigger equipment will take time to get out of the building, bunker, etc...
It feels like we are in a Chose Your Own Adventure version of Battletech now, where finding things means you get the prize, so it has to work to get the story to move on.
Ghostrider, your last point about the FWL sitting back and letting the FC/DC bleed against the Clans makes sense; it was costing them nothing to sell the kits and mechs. Plus, they were getting all the feedback on what was and was not working from the new upgrades for free. I think Victor should have told the fake Thomas once he knew for sure Joshua was dead, suggested the double to be able to send the body home, and then the double would vanish (or not since at that point the double would be in the hands of the fake Thomas) and thus avoiding a lot of issues. Maybe. That is one possibility that could have happened. Yet, for some reason, TPTB wanted a civil war to pull the fighting and attention OFF the Clan front and back into the Inner Sphere. Recall the Truce said the Clans could not attack past the Truce Line; nothing was really stopping them from advancing toward it on the flanks.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Requiem
07/20/22 02:12 AM
1.147.81.29
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Patents are a non-issue if they are owned by the state then the sate will receive a royalty amount based upon the number manufactured. If owned by a corporation, then the corporation will be ‘encouraged’ to undertake a globalization strategy to the world in question. Where they will establish a new plant for the manufacture of this ‘particular item’.
So yes, the statement remains true to the original premise.
… the original statement sounds like all worlds have the ability to make the same thing, no matter the size of the industry base or knowledge … Can you please re-read the original statement, in which it postulated that once a world reaches a certain level of Technology and Education it will be able to create advanced weapons when supplied with the information requirements.
How did you get to the assumption? … “So given your definition, all ground wars are naval wars, even if they do not border any bodies of water that can float a ship.”
Let me get this straight when colonizing a world rather than use advanced technology to ensure self-sufficiency in farming we should just our hands and sticks in a subsistence farming, all because you do not wan to bring a tractor along as it takes up too much space in the Dropship.
Really? Isn’t this taking the Amish way of life a bit too far?
Where is this education coming from – central government on a data storage device. As for the rant this does not make any sense – can it possibly be re-written?
Victor was killing the child for his own benefit. No where in the books did it say this.
Sorry once again to burst your deniability bubble but yes it did say that it was for “his benefit” or more accurately the FC benefit – to maintain supply of refit packages for the war with the Clans.
i.e. to maintain the supply of refit packages provides Victor with the motive to commit the crime.
Victor is not a monster for killing a child – where is your humanity? If a President did this IRL what would you say then?
If Yvonne could be so easily removed from the throne then she is not worthy of it, and Victor is not worthy of placing his trust in Yvonne.
Both are incompetent – thus it is better for the state that she takes the rains asap!
The agreement was one title for both realms – sorry but no, the agreement was that Victor would rule both but when he was outside the Lyran half then Katherine would act as his Regent.
Question would you return the realm to man that has shown himself to grossly incompetent for the task at hand? He ran away to play soldier and left an incompetent fool on the throne … he deserved to loose the throne!
Also by rights of succession Katherine is the next ruler of the FC upon the death of Victor / or proven to be incompetent of the job (ie similar to the 25th).
So when it is proven to the people that Victor is incompetent – running away from the job – by all rights she is allowed to contest for the job.
If you have a mad CO who likes bayonet charges, then this is their prerogative.
Just remember one thing – a good supply of body bags.
Your own forums … even if it is from a moderator?
If the helm memory core did have the solution – then why was it not implemented? Think about this for just one second!
Also any lead no matter how remote – would you send a team to undertake an investigation?
Prior to Thomas being WoB he was ComStar – so why didn’t they send him to the ‘ComStar’ Hidden world once detected – the same one the real Thomas was fixed up on as this was before the Clan Invasion?
And what of Snords medial facility beneath his museum?
Canon stated that the numbers the OA had were accurate – the question is then would Kerensky believe the numbers?
Question which is the real priority – saving the life of the first lord and his family or restricting resupplies from the RWR.
Still cheaper and easier to just take a bug-eye and convert into a civilian craft to make the communications ship!
So Victor has the right to keep a father in the dark about the death of his son if it is for the greater good of the FC and not the FWL?
And yet still no one has ever talked to Thomas about this.
No the FWL was not reliant upon the FC for their economy – a great deal of income was coming from exports to the FS, LC and DC that was helping the FWL economy.
And what was Kai doing as a member of St Ives in the war? Also how many worlds did St Ives have at the start of the Clan War?
Computer systems damaged – Helm Memory core? How did this survive?
Doesn’t anyone take an adaptor with them when they are going to a Star League Facility anymore – or for that sake can’t anyone make an adaptor if necessary?
And this exploration mission is government funded – so like mercenaries – don’t you think a chaperone or two will be supplied to ensure there are no sticky fingers.
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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ghostrider
07/20/22 12:12 PM
45.51.181.83
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First thing to get started. The perfect logic of the alt has to be rewritten as the idea that the FWL was NOT reliant on the FC for their economy.
The sales of the refit packs would have a majority of them being bought by the DC. They were in greater need of them then the FC, as the industrial might of the FC would be building them as well. The DC had a smaller industry to even attempt it.
I have never heard of a state owning a patent.
The only type of governments that push companies to move or force production of their goods is normally one no one wants to live under. The good ones offer benefits, but in the end, the company can refuse. There is a reason why patents are in effect. It allows those that own them, the ability to build where, when and how many of the item they want.
When supplied with the educational requirements. You mean they need the blueprints and such to make complex items? And this is the very reason why patents are here. So that a specific item is only made in a few places, not everywhere by every one?
The idea that just because forces move from one world to another, you said they were a space navy war. So any battle in history that touched water was a navy battle according to that concept.
I said a self sufficient colony does not need things like farming tractors to survive. And in the initial push, they would be so limited in space, that a tractor would not be taken. Most colonies did NOT start off with a planet being moved to a new world. They were normal people trying to get away from oppression. I did not say they would not get items that would make life easier. That would come later. Again, the lack of knowing how colonies were started show up. When you first start, you have so many different things that are required, things that make life easier tend to be left behind.
Katherine and the entire IS benefitted from the refit packages. At least for helping to stop the clans. Afterwards, they could be said to have been used against the other house, or even their own people, like Katherine did. I did not hear of uprisings formed when Victor was in charge from his governing. Why is that?
Skye being the exception as they were rebelling for most of their history.
Actually, anyone in war can kill a child. This also include the leaders that started the fight as well. But you left out part of that statement. You said he did. I don't remember reading he knifed Joshua or shot him, or anything like that.
And humanity has nothing to do with this. The case had a child that was in pain about to die, so they let the child die, instead of keeping him on machines. The ONLY reason why this is an issue is because you want to create a monster to back up your favorite character to take over. Had Katherine done this, you would be praising her for saving the FC. And yet, her power grab causes many children to die. Nothing said here, and I know you would never have said anything.
Edited by ghostrider (07/20/22 12:57 PM)
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ghostrider
07/20/22 12:56 PM
45.51.181.83
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Katherine was not the better ruler. She had a few points that would have done well if not for her killing any that opposed her. See government needs people to say 'no, that will not work as presented'. Killing someone that says that is a crime to the nation. You can ignore the statements, but that means you miss out on information.
Sorry, but reread the agreement. The Archon-Prince(ss) ruled both realms. There would be an appointed reagent on the throne when they were in the other realm. This is a feudalistic necessity, as you can not personally be in both at once. This happens because you can not be everywhere at once. Katherine was in charge only because she was family. It was not a part of the agreement. Victor could very well have chosen someone else to take the position, and it would stick.
Where did it say Yvonne was an incompetent fool? She was unsure of herself, but she did not run the FS badly. The lies and twisted stories Katherine was putting out harped on the supposed faults. But no where does it say Yvonne was a horrible leader.
Victor was not incompetent for leading the troops in a war to remove the greatest threat at that time. He was following the military leadership role that gave his family the reputation of dealing with threats like that head on. Had he not, you would be saying he was a coward for not doing so. There is no winning when someone hates everything about a character.
There is no real option to win a war without some charging going on. You have to remove an enemy, and that means taking the lands they are on. To take a sword in the middle of a gun fight and try the charge is stupid. But you have to push forward to win at times. Other times, you just hold the ground. In the case of the artillery, in order to prevent the deaths of your comrades, you have to charge where they are set up. Otherwise, if the enemy has the ammo for it, they will eventually wipe out the entire group, and pound the area flat. To even question trying to take out artillery shows a lack of any understanding of the necessities of war.
The core itself was not the point. The fact that what housed it should have had advanced medical bays. Not sure if it had the knowledge on how to deal with the disease, but it facility should have had the medical bays. What shape it was in is questionable. But from 3030 to 3050, something should be working right.
And we know other facilities were found.
Again, you assume the houses are never sending scouting teams to look for SL ruins. Do you know why recon missions are sent to areas? To find anything out of the ordinary. That means enemy units, but it also means looking for things like bases that were missed, or uncovered by some event.
Saving the life of the first lord? Did you forget that Amaris killed the first family which started him taking the TH? Beyond precognition, or time travel, there is no way of saving the first lord. And with none of the house lords taking some initiative, what does that say about them? Not a single one would help deal with that threat.
As canon said Katherine killed her mother, why are you using different views for this?
For all Kerensky knows, the house lords were part of the plot to remove the Camerons. Or parts of them anyways.
The tech in a Bugeye is more valuable then you realize. A courier means a schedule, which makes it a huge target. Anyone that can steal one, could very well be making them in the future, which means the TH/SL would have to deal with someone else having that technology. Did you not think about this before suggesting this? You could very easily make a Gazelle to be a courier. Or a Leopard CV. At least then you would have some fighter support. A Congress warship, or any of the older SL models could have been used. Instead we get 'let's use the SR-71 Blackbird to transport our embaseedores to a foreign nation.'
Leaders have always kept deaths a secret. It is required at times, for a time period. It is part of running a government. Releasing the information when that time has passed is the key. Much like troop deployments, some things can not be made public for a while.
Kai was fighting the clans with Victor then performing miracle afterwards. Like having a quick training time, and using the elemental suite to standards beyond clan norms in order to fight against Operation Scorpion. So instead of him being in St. Ives during the clan war, he was with Victor. During the retaking fight, we was part of the forces defending St. Ives from Sun Tzu. Again, this is all in the books.
Having a computer destroyed, yet still having the memory survive is possible. Even a malfunctioning system could have a fully operational memory system. The hard drive in your computer now is a good example. Short out the CPU, and the memory could survive. Why is this needed to be said?
What adaptor is there? You mean that the old computers didn't have USB ports? The midi port for running video and audio to a tv/monitor did not exist on the IBM AT? You mean the original IBM compatible only had a max of 4 megs of memory in the system, not including the drives? That a research facility would use non standard connections to make sure you couldn't just plug in and steal all the information? Imagine that. Security beyond passwords.
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Requiem
07/20/22 07:52 PM
1.147.83.241
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Again, there are no hard numbers as to the split in requests for refit packs from the FWL by either of the FC or the DC.
Just because you are in greater need of packs does not indicate that your side purchased the greatest number.
It should be considered that the FC has almost three times the Regiments as that of the DC – and thus by extension of maintaining a higher number of units they would purchase more packs from the FWL to supplement their own military industrial complex – remember time is a great factor considering the speed of the invasion – thus the need to acquire refit packs quickly prior to their units being sent to the front.
Thus, by this postulation it is deemed that the highest purchaser would be the FC.
Suggest actually googling US Patents – The US Federal Government, through the operation of government-owned research facilities, research grants to universities and procurement contracts with private industries, funds almost 50% of all the US national R&D effort. Therefore, the US Federal Government holds the most patent rights.
Suggest looking at … https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bayh%E2%80%93Dole_Act
Just because you own a patent does not mean you have carte blanche over the product. A government agency or person authorised by the government may exploit the invention without the consent of the patent owner due to public interest – national security, health etc.
Also, governments can restrict sales through other laws – it is not as if you can sell military hardware (as well as other goods) to just anyone – the government will have a say in the sale, for example a Trade Embargo …
Question – what is the use of a Vengeance Carrier or Leopard CV Carrier? – also what is the use of a Great Houses maintaining a Navy to protect their shipping routes – also have all Pirates now been relegated to a surface action only, no more ship boarding action for Lady Death …. Also, what ever happed to the concept of the black sea?
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I said a self-sufficient colony does not need things like farming tractors to survive. And in the initial push, they would be so limited in space, that a tractor would not be taken.
Really?, no Really? …. Sorry but yes you will need that tractor to establish your colony – how else are you going to move heavy equipment, or prefab housing for example?
Suggest actually completing the research as to the concept of interstellar colonization first, such as looking at …
https://www.nasa.gov/centers/hq/library/find/bibliographies/space_colonization
Helping to stop the Clans? Really
1st time – their il-khan was killed by a kamikaze and they returned home for a vote …
2nd time – ComStar issued a challenge, and won
Refit packages can only be said to increase a unit’s chance at surviving and little else …
Also all throughout history there have been civil wars and insurrections – so why are you surprised they occurred again … you gave them a weapon and your surprised whom they turned them on?
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I did not hear of uprisings formed when Victor was in charge from his governing.
Could it be because he was never there in government to start an uprising – he did spend most of his time with his troops in the field.
However, we mustn’t forget that it was at HIS INTIGATION that the FC Civil war commenced when he had another one of his gut feelings that his sister killed his brother – which was later proven to be false and that rather than been killed he was kidnapped – thus it was Victor’s fault (interference in the investigation) that allowed the kidnappers successfully escape!
So let me get this straight killing a child in a hospital and not allowing them to see their family one last time is the same as killing them on the battlefield - is this directly or indirectly?
This is just arguing for the sake of it and attempting to compare an apple with an orange …. Again!
Let’s try to stick with specifics here – in a hospital, no family whatsoever …
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Katherine was not the better ruler.
Sorry, in my opinion she is far superior to that of Victor who did not understand his role in the government at all – and rather than actually-governing, he chose to play soldier boy.
Sorry, but reread the agreement prior disbanding the FC what was she again?
Yvonne – what do you call a leader who gives up the ship of state just because they are having a bad press day and the poll is saying your down by 20 points?
Victor – what is the primary duty of the head of state?
There is necessary advancements and then there is just blatant stupidity – jut remember which is which.
Hidden world syndrome – so sill looking for those missing bases due to the number of worlds available?
As for SL ruins – how many canon books included teams that undertake such ventures? I do believe the only unit was Snord’s. So where are these scouting teams?
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Did you forget that Amaris killed the first family which started him taking the TH?
Question – how and when did Kerensky obtain this information? Until he receives undeniable proof it remains his duty to assume they are alive and it is his duty to save them.
If Kerensky believed the House Lords were involved isn’t it his duty to remove them from power by force?
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Canon said Katherine killed her mother
Again …. How does your character know this? are they all knowing from this point on? Or do they believe in conspiracy theories and live in their parent’s basement?
Bugeye = military / Intelligence agency ship
Courier = civilian
Both have the ability remain on board for extended periods of time as well as highly advanced communication systems built in .
Keeping deaths secret – when they are princes of an intergalactic empire isn’t this a bit of an exception to the rule?
To which military was Kai assigned to?
When going to a foreign land do you ensure you have all the correct cables / adaptors ? so why should it be any different if out attempting to go to a SLDF facility etc
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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ghostrider
07/20/22 10:15 PM
45.51.181.83
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Again? The discussion has not went over the amount of refit packages the DC and FC buy.
It did say that if the FWL stopped supplying them to the FC, your view was this "would Thomas stop providing extra conversion kits and in so doing ruin the only souse of his economic resurgence within the FWL and at the same time kickstarted a recession within the FWL all because NASIS was unable to cure his son?
The answer is no he would not stop providing Kits – the FWL requires this export to maintain their bull market – if he had even attempted it Parliament would have censured him for being a twat – and he would have lost many friend’s swing voted within parliament.at Thomas would be voted out by the parliment. It was also said,"
So first, you did make it sound like the FWL was relying on the FC to keep it financially afloat, and second, there is nothing here to suggest the DC was getting refit kits. If you can't remember what you wrote, then I suggest you limit yourself.
Funny how you mention how much the government spends on research, but yet don't discuss how much of that research goes to private sources. The government can not just take your patented item and mass produce them, especially if they are not required for defending the nation. If this was true, then a majority of the companies in the U.S. would have been nationalized for their gouging of all including the government. Renewable energy would have already shut down fossil fuel plants. There is a limit to what the government can do. They can, with PERMISSION, produce patented items with compensation to the holders of the patent.
The carrier dropships are doing the same thing the other military dropshisp are. Moving military forces to other worlds or defending the worlds in the area they are in. The game focus is ground combat. It is not set up to fight unlimited wars in space. In fact, most invasions normally don't have more then 2 vengeances in their group. And how many space fights win and hold a world? It is the ground forces that do so.
You need a farming tractor to move heavy loads? When did this happen? In the game, they have loader mechs, and most of those go back to where the ship came from. And where do you need such things for the initial ship to colonize a world? Are you still thinking you have to ship in a full city with Defiance size factories again?
So let me guess. You need an aircraft carrier to patrol a 5 acre pond?
Honestly, a simple forklift would be used to move things. Something that any cargo ship would have standard. Not something the colony would keep.
Also, manual labor has been known to move heavy loads before the invention of tractors. Look to the pyramids of Egypt for that. Prefab homes used for starting a colony is not a Park Avenue luxury Condo tower.
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Karagin
07/20/22 10:16 PM
70.118.172.64
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The Houses did have scout units out looking for what they thought would be the remains of the SLDF on a dead world or in orbit around a dead world. This is mentioned several times in many of the books.
My point with the computer is that the systems won't be compatible, your OS from an APPLE won't read on WINDOWS machine, it will show an entire full disk but not anything of use to you. And given that computers would have changed or degraded as tech levels fell in the Inner Sphere post Star League, the finds of the computer systems wouldn't always be that amazing. That old store room in the basement with the 400 boxes of punch cards is great! However, do you have a machine that can read them?
Each House, in a way, did have the other Houses helping them out economically but not in the sense of being the sole ticket item. The companies that made mechs would sell to all who had cold hard C-bills. If it were a Fed Suns company selling actuators to a Combine manufacturer, okay, as long as there was no active fighting, the sale would happen, or it would go through third parties. That would be the normal pattern of business across the Inner Sphere; keep in mind that the Houses are large enough that a lot of the economy will be devoted to internal vs. external things.
There will be cross-border/realm trade, but it will be for certain or hard-to-get items and goods. Consumer electronics made in the Combine might be of higher quality than those made in the FWL, so the markets there will be very profitable for that kind of goods and the merchants will know this. That is the stuff the original House sourcebooks did touch on in the back sections when they covered the major manufacturing groups and such.
Clearly, Requiem needs to re-read the books and take better notes.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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ghostrider
07/20/22 10:48 PM
45.51.181.83
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If not for the FC and DC taking the brunt of the clans and not letting them advance as the clans wanted to, then they were helping to stop the clans. Comstar would never have been able to challenge the clans if the IS folded, like the clans hoped. What would have happened if the FRR just gave up, and didn't bother striking at the Dire Wolf and hitting the bridge, in plot armor?
If you arm citizens, and then expect them to rebel, why are you always pushing for all weapons be made on every world and let the people have complete access to them? Don't try to say you don't as your responses have been pushing that direction.
The knowledge would be there, according to you, to build everything.
The civil war was going to happen with or without him. Just as the stories of old, the exile leader returns to take back the throne stolen from him by a blood thirsty family member. How is this instigated by the exile leader? Oh yeah. He came to take the throne back from the blood thirsty family member.
And if Victor was never part of the government, then how do you say he was a horrible leader? Melissa ran the FC until her death. Yet you say Victor was destroying the FC at that time.
You continue to paint an apple the color orange to try and get out of facts. Joshua would never survive the trip back home. The ONLY way he would see his parents again is IF they went to him. It was already known Joshua would not survive his disease. So you suggest they cruelly put him thru jumping stresses. And think that was better then letting him have a small bit of comfort at the end? Might as well put him on the rack with that thought.
Let's see. The fluff in the Galtor campaign has discussed the very issue of looking for SL bases. They had a computer put forth the most likely places they would be and either found nothing, a base already raided, or some small finds. The 4th war that Delta company ran into the company of Goliaths is yet another SL find. And let's not forget Comstar seizing a lot of SL finds. But in the war game, scouting for lost treasure is not the top priority for writers.
Again, proof you did not really bother with thinking before posting. Could it be that the live broadcast of Amaris blowing the head off the child not be proof of Richard's death? The fact that everything he would receive would say the same thing not enough? Or did reading between the lines interfer with what was actually written?
The continuation of saying Victor was horrible, all comes from what no one in the game mode had ever seen, yet still defending Katherine when all seen what she was doing. You continually suggest everyone in the FC knew Victor was in the field, yet that very information would not be available while he is. You say Victor was never making decisions for the FC, yet have no proof of this. Those in the game would not know this. Yet you use out of game information to try and make him the bad guy, so Katherine can be the good guy. Too bad she showed she was far worse.
The Bugeye is not a military ship. Not sure why this is hard to understand. The military uses other ships for intel gathering. The SL intel uses the Bugeye.
The release of deaths is time reliant. Saying something died, means you admitting that they were some place you claimed they weren't. Understand? For Joshua, the fear of the supplies needed to hold the clans back was a good choice. Given a year or two, then telling Thomas was the right choice.
As the St. Ives was not allowing their forces out of the Compact, due to Sun Tzu being ready to invade due to the distraion of the clan war. He would have attacked at any time. SO Kai went with Victors unit. Also remember that Kai was also an Allard. He was part of the FS.
What connections does the SL facility have? How far out of date is your information on this? Did the place you are going to update to something you don't have? Dell computers uses a different connection to the hard drives then the older ones. Yet others still use the old ribbon cables. Imagine that.
So what size wrench to you need for the new cars? Oh yeah. They changes those every few years.
So what is the size this year? Or last year? Or a decade ago?
Or for that fact, what program coding language did the use for his facility?
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ghostrider
07/20/22 10:53 PM
45.51.181.83
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One more point I had forgot to put in the responses.
The FWL was having problems WITH selling the refit kits to the others.
The Duchy of Andurian was upset that their entire production of PPCs, and ERPPCs were being shipped out. That was part of the reason they revolted and joined the MoC.
So no. The parliment would not have strung up Thomas like was described by Requiem.
More then a few thought the FWL should upgrade their forces long before selling the packs.
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Karagin
07/20/22 11:11 PM
70.118.172.64
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Yeah, it's going to be the hammer opens things approach, and that will cause issues, like misreading millimeters as inches, or so the rumor goes for a certain MMG. cough the M60 cough.
Civil War was already hinted at in the 20-Year Update, and kind of before that, with all the issues the Commonwealth had with succession issues and internal rebellions by certain regions wanting to be independant. Also, somewhat in the Suns with the Capellan March and Draconis March issues.
The FWL was a House of Cards that should have fallen with the collapse of the Star League. That would have been a wild setup.
Victor was not a bad character, he was only bad when the authors wanted to write him that way, same for any of the other characters in the game. And the books where Victor is made to be the fool are normally the ones that get the worse review for that reason, which in turn means the next book the same writer pens is already going to be under the gun from the readers. Clearly, Reqiuem has it that everyone is out to get Katherine. Her character is somehow the savior the Inner Sphere needed and should have been the Supreme Ruler (TM) of Mankind ruling from the Golden Throne on Terra (TM), where the spice flows. The mindpowers of the Sisters and Bemdu (TM) are there to guide her into the next level of transition so mankind can advance on its path to enlightenment, so says the Book of Blake, 3:9-3 ALL HAIL CAMERON!
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Requiem
07/20/22 11:43 PM
1.147.83.253
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The government can not just take your patented item and mass produce them
Sorry to burst your bubble – but yes they can there are two mediums within the USA
1. The Bayh-Dole Act of 1980
2. 28 USC Section 1498
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how many space fights win and hold a world?
Depends on the game.
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In the game, they have loader mechs
1st Mech - Machie – Production Year 2439 – midway through the Age of War
1st Colony – New Earth 2116
Thus between these two dates for all colonists there were no loader mechs – so how are you going to move your heavy equipment? Perhaps with a crane attached to the back of your Tractor or maybe a trailer attached to your tractor?
Muti-purpose vehicles to fulfill many roles within the colony are required.
Question what minimal equipment is required for a colony – have you ever attempted a list? Suggest you look into this.
So you are suggestion during the age of colonization people should use sleds and mass people power to move heavy equipment into place similar to building the pyramids?
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The Houses did have scout units out looking
And hidden worlds with bases on them – did they have ships out looking for these?
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My point with the computer is that the systems won't be compatible
Question – when did my computer in my SLDF era BattleMech get its OS shifted over? As the Mech has been in my family for many generations and I don’t have this on any of the documents …
Also my dropship and Jump-ship are both SL era – when did their OS get migrated over
Or are the OS for a SLDF vehicles etc different? – so when a SLDF defected to my house did I have to request they fix their computers 1st
Also the Helm Memory Core – did we need to find an old computer first that could read it?
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did have the other Houses helping them out economically
And what happens when you are confronted with an existential threat like the clans – then what?
Just going to hold back as the Clans are not a threat after they destroy the FC and the DC – they won’t go after the FWL.
Clearly Karagin needs to google the lend lease act 1941 and understand the ramifications of what is going on.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lend-Lease
Question how many reservists are allowed to take home a tank or a mobile missile battery?
How many European States only allow small arms in every house?
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The civil war was going to happen with or without him.
And if Victor did not get involved – how long would it take the JAG to arrest all dissident commanding officers and for Loki to take all renegade Lords?
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He came to take the throne back from the blood thirsty family member.
Again – PROVE IT!!!!! – as far as the ordinary citizen goes no one knows who killed Katherine / Victor’s Mother. And no one knows of Katherines antics with regards to Jump-ships – so again as far as the ordinary citizen knows is that she has acted to save the Lyran half during the start of a war of Victor’s own making and she was invited by Yvonne to take the throne – so the only one being blood thirsty is Victor when he call for a war – and then can never prove that Katherine Killed their brother – thus making it look as he wanted retribution – he was the one out for blood not her!
AGAIN – look at this from the perspective of the character in the game and not in the perspective of you reading all the books and getting all riled up.
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Joshua would never survive the trip back home
1. You don’t know that for sure.
2. It is better to act as a humanitarian and make the attempt that that of a “realist” and appear to be callous and without a human heart.
3. Victor never gave Joshua’s parents the opportunity to make the trip – information blackout! – he made the decision for them.
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But in the war game, scouting for lost treasure is not the top priority for writers.
Problem – what happens if one house can gain an advantage over all others if they were the only one to find a vast SL treasure hoard.
Again Logic and Reason – as well as understanding the primary duty of Commanding Officer of a Vast Army – could it be that Kerensky is unaware of his duty and just doesn’t care about his liege lord?
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You say Victor was never making decisions for the FC, yet have no proof of this.
Where does it ever state that he needed to visit his administrative retainers in order to receive government updates that require his attention / signature – that then need to be sent via ComStar back to the Capital Worlds for execution?
No retinue – no decision making – hence proof of his perfidy.
Too bad he showed he was far worse!
Bugeye – how many CIA ships are out there Vs how many military intelligence gathering ships / aircraft etc …
If you are using the Bugeye strictly for the Intel departments – waste of resources!
Really -keeping a father ignorant of the death of their child is OK? – question on what universe is this OK?
So if St. Ives went to war against the Clans and the CC attacked St. Ives – then you believe that the FS would sit on their hands and do nothing? Or do you believe that the FS would rise up and attack the CC? So do you believe there is no mutual defence pact between the FS and St. Ives? And if not isn’t this a little stupid?
Wrenches aren’t these adjustable? Were you thinking about spanners or ratchets and sockets?
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That was part of the reason they revolted and joined the MoC.
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/History_of_the_Magistracy_of_Canopus
“for the most part the Magistracy stayed out of interstellar affairs until 3030, when it allied with the rebellious Duchy of Andurien”
So 20 years too early?
So yes parliament would have strung up Thomas for damaging their economic renaissance.
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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Karagin
07/21/22 12:00 AM
70.118.172.64
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One thing that Alaric could do with his new Star League is to bring the Sea Foxes/Diamond Sharks, whatever the flavor of the Month is their name this year, into the fold entirely and set them up as both the arms makers and leading source for new jumpships and HPG parts. That would most certainly cement his control on things. That is, if the rumors are true, certain parties inside the Fox/Sharks are selling. That could be a big coup for him and the ilClan to have the HPG network back up, and running, say, within the next five years game time.
It would put a big crimp on the CapCon's little military adventurism and might even halt some of the Combine's advancement into the Suns. Not sure how it would help the former Empire and Falcon worlds, but it would be a rude awakening for all when it happens.
Remember, he didn't destroy Republic R&D sites, and they did surrender to him, so he has the whole house of wax to play with.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Karagin
07/21/22 12:06 AM
70.118.172.64
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Speaking of the FWL, I am surprised that the CapCon didn't make moves to grab more worlds from them versus playing grab behind with ROTS. Far easier target, weaker military, thus a more accessible prize and one that would have allowed them to have more of a front with the ROTS, that could have given them an edge to get in there, but instead, we see them play the game of "old Capellan worlds must be saved" and once more right back in the backwaters of the game they go.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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ghostrider
07/21/22 12:58 AM
45.51.181.83
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Depends on the game? We are talking about Battletech, and when asked how many space fights win and hold worlds, you say depends on the game? This is definitely an answer by someone looking to just argue.
So you believe they would have a farming tractor loading and unloading heavy equipment? There are plenty of specially built vehicles that do that without needing to be changing attachments. A simple forklift with a semi and flat bed trailer comes to mind. Most cargo ships have cranes and other equipment to unload. Just as an air conditioning company relies on a crane to move acs to roofs, it would stand that a dedicated ship have those on it. Once off loaded, then it is the colonists problem. Which would be using man power. Not sure why this is an problem to understand. How many tractors did the have before 1800? They moved a lot of cargo then, and again, look at the pyramids in Egypt. They didn't have this stuff at that point.
The information the IS had about the Comstar/WOB hidden worlds was a long game of deleting that information on top of saying they glowed in the dark from the wars. When something is that dangerous, people avoid it, as well as delete the jump coordinates so there is no accidental jumps into a dead system. There is always a way to find a system. Just look at the stars and calculate where it really is. SO hidden worlds aren't hidden. It is very likely those systems were still known, just not visited.
Also, the scouts out looking were on planets looking for bases. So finding a world is not the same as finding a hidden base on a world.
You just answered your own question. Being in the family for generations, it is highly likely to have been jury rigged a few times over. Just get it working until you got money to fix it, then never did. The hack held and it was forgotten. Or the person that did it died without telling anyone it was hacked. How many times did you have to put in a part from a different mech or even company? You need it running now, so change out the fitting from one company to another as it is back ordered for several months. Sound about like real life?
How many times have you updated your computer on the mech? It may well have changed the OS during one of the times it was in the bay. Faulty radar? Your out of date OS doesn't work with the new equipment. Sound like real life?
The answer of how long it would take to root out the rebels is not something that can be answered. Just like the Black Dragons in the DC, they have never been fully defeated. Also, as she continued her reign of terror, more would join the cause. The civil war was already going on before Victor joined. It just wasn't declared as such.
The books prove Katherine stole the throne and started a bloody purge of all that did not worship her. As Katherine had her people saying Victor killed her mother, do you think there wasn't those saying Katherine did? They would have released the information they could. There is no popular uprising to save Katherine because people knew she did it. Her actions spoke just as loud as a bull horn.
She gave up worlds that was won in a war before she was born. Just up and left all those people that were part of the LC. She ran from the FWL instead of going in and removing yet another chunk of the FWL to remove the Mariks from their side. She betrayed the FC with cowardice. This is not someone who is considered honorable, and when they found out other lies, they would question her story. She was pulled out of the dinner just before the bomb went off. There is no such thing as being that lucky. And with the nobles settling down the population, the truth was out there. Even those that hated Victor was getting the truth out there. And Katherine running into the clans arms really puts the nail in that coffin.
We do know he would not make it. He was dying before the decision could have been made. And with that, the family could have visited Joshua at any time. Arrangements would be made to allow it. So that excuse is debunked.
There is no doubt that the Cameron line was dead. The council stated so and told Kerensky to stand down. Besides having a fleet of Star Destroyers pop out his back side, what could be done? Gather the loyal forces, and make sure Amaris didn't have a power base to draw from, then start removing him from the worlds of the TH.
Where does it ever state that he needed to visit his administrative retainers in order to receive government updates that require his attention / signature – that then need to be sent via ComStar back to the Capital Worlds for execution?
I love that one. I said the same thing about him not being tied down to a desk in the capital, and got a load of crap thrown at me. I guess you are just trying to get an argument going.
Where did it ever say he did not have people carrying orders back and forth? He had constant updates coming in thru multiple people. Curtis is but one of those examples.
Given you wanted the FS to send everything it had to the clan lines, and got upset when I said it wasn't smart, I got a crap load of there is no reason to have large amounts of forces guarding the FS portion. I will bet you forgot that, so go back and reread the other posts. You will find other information as well, on why we have the concepts on your thinking down. The responses show what is going on.
Actually, Cresent wrenches are bad for tight bolts. They tend to round the corners. There are set wrenches that do a far better job of tightening/removing bolts and nuts. Grade 8 bolts in aluminum are a pain to get out when you round the corners off.
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Requiem
07/21/22 04:48 AM
1.147.112.29
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Depends on the game? …. We are talking about BattleSPACE
Why can’t a multi-purpose vehicle be utilized for both tractor and for heavy equipment?
How many hidden worlds surround a world that is habitable 1,000 or 2,000? – and how long will it take to visit every single one in the hope of finding the hidden base? So hidden worlds are just that hidden unless there is another means of detecting the hidden base.
You just answered you own question – in completing the jerry rigging you do realise this is a major overhaul which will require massive number of pars to obtain it to work.
And this happened with every mech of the same class?
Katherine
Started a bloody purge – where and when – book and page no.
Gave up worlds – which ones -book and page no.
Yes the books prove ….. however, how does your average citizen know this?
She gave up worlds – which one?
Ran from the FWL – to protect the Lyran half – thus the Lyrans loved her, however as for those in the Suns they thought betrayed.
Cowardice – when and where – book and page no.
She was pulled out of the dinner just before the bomb went off. There is no such thing as being that lucky. – and yet how many times has this occurred in history?
Getting the truth out there – how, example please book and page no.
Katherine running into the clans – how did the average person know this? – book and page no.
So once more how did your average citizen know these?
The family could have visited any time – question can the monarch of the UK visit any country anytime?
There was no doubt that the Cameron line was dead – and those in the FWL or those in the FS what about them? And also how did Kerensky know the entirety of the Cameron family on Terra were dead? And for that matter how did the council know? Didn’t Amaris initiate a total communication blackout?
Still have yet to answer these questions.
Curtis? Who???
Send majority of those equipped. – not all.
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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Karagin
07/21/22 07:58 AM
70.118.172.64
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Requiem, we have asked you for your ALT to have the same level ground to see your POV and POD. You continue to ignore this simple request, YET, you then proceede to argue your points FROM that ALT as if it's canon known facts to all of us.
So either put the ALT up here on Sarna as a stand-alone topic or please just stop. You are right back at your usual SOP. The points made from your ALT about Victor and Katherine have been debunked, and the other points have also neem debunked.
Why won't you share your ALT?
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Requiem
07/21/22 08:24 AM
1.147.126.233
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Quote:
then proceed to argue your points FROM that ALT
Fishing for information?
So sorry but this guess is incorrect.
Really, I thought it was obvious why I will never share this!
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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ghostrider
07/21/22 11:40 AM
45.51.181.83
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Ok misspelled Curatis. The person from FC intel that was protecting and updating Victor thru that time. He is one of a very few named that was doing this.
As you will not bother actually reading the books, as all the answers to your questions are there, I'm done with the asking the same questions when the answers were all printed.
The entire Chaos march was LC worlds that the coward Katherine gave up. The lives lost when she did so were Lyran. All those people that migrated there for work, and didn't get out when the military was pulled out.
The worlds she started military action on, where part of the purge.
As the books said the information was out there, they do not say exactly how or what.
A monarch can arrange a visit. Given the nature of the circumstance, it would probably be approved quickly.
The SL had ways to get the news out. The video footage from inside the throne room would be sent out immediately, and by all means they had available.
All those questions were answered if you had read the books word for word.
And the alt will never be shown as it is perfect logic. As seen by all the snippets brought here, yet constantly shows to be fully flawed, just like the canon story.
As I said, I am done with the crap thrown in, just to argue.
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Karagin
07/21/22 12:40 PM
70.118.172.64
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Yes, it has gotten to the point that it's the same questions asked again and again. Regardless of what we point to. Even with my dislike of the Jihad stuff, I have read the canon stuff, and then I pick it apart based on what is present to us as coming before; that way, if TPTB is playing magic, hand waving to make the story happen just because, then that can be brought to the forefront for a discussion as it should be and has been done.
With this stuff, there is no hand waving; it is all my way is better, so that is the facts regardless of anything else. Then, when you or I counter with canon facts against his points, he changes his point to claim the canon is still wrong, and here is why.
Requiem, please post your ALT version of the Battletech History and such. That would go a long way to end the bickering and give the rest of us the same playing field as you have. Otherwise, we end up returning to the same point you keep returning to.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Requiem
07/21/22 07:21 PM
1.147.65.181
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Curatis
Intelligence / Counterintelligence / Espionage operative only – who supplies information on a very limited subject (His Mother’s assassination) – so how is he going to assist Victor in regards to his Government’s administrative requirements for each of the government’s independent departments?
The answer is he doesn’t – within the cannon writings there is no individual / group of individuals, as his retainers, who assist with all administrative requirements of keeping Victor informed / providing documents for signature / providing communication updates from the Capital … and the list of duties goes on and on …. Thus, can we say that Victor has just passed the buck to his “Regent” and he has just walked off to play soldier? The lack of evidence provided within canon would suggest that the answer is yes, he has just dumped it all of his duties on his “Regent” and has just walked away from running the empire …. Therefore, he is quite clearly an incompetent ruler.
The problem is yes, I have read the books, and yes I can actually identify all faults as written. The problem is the majority just accept on face value only and do not bother enquire as to the multitude of issues due to the poorly written books and do not want others identifying the issues.
Chaos March
This is actually a very interesting subject and can be discussed in in its own forum.
The overriding question is - Which State actually did own this area of space Lyrans or Fed. Suns? The answer is based on Time of ownership – pre or post 4th Succession War.
The wedding toast would suggest that they are Lyran. – hence the Sarna March is technically a part of the Lyran State and is technically under the control of the Archon.
Then there is the issue of the Tikonov Free Republic – post death of Pavel Ridzik Ardan Sortek (Fed Suns) administered the Republic until elections were called, however this short lived state eventually was absorbed into the Sarna March – and again part of the Lyran State.
However, and this is the rub, legally the border between the Suns and the Lyans pre 4th Succession War is Terra. Therefore technically with the dissolving of the FC partnership – the border immediately reverts back to pre 4th Succession border position q.e.d. Terra.
Thus legally with the destruction of the FC partnership the area in question belongs instantly to the Suns – and as such becomes Victor’s headache.
Thus Katherine’s position of calling back the troops is legally correct as with the destruction of the FC partnership this area of space is no longer Lyran – and if she did keep troops there then technically Victor could say that she was illegally holding Suns worlds and he can declare war on the Lyran half – thus we are back to the argument of Victor starting a civil War (again).
Thus Katherine did the only thing she could based upon all legal requirements – pull back and leave the area to the Suns in order to ensure that Victor could not call for a civil war upon the Lyran half.
Thus the Suns are technically responsible for the creation of the Chaos March for not being able to restore law and order within this area of space.
(even though the Lyrans held a majority of the Suns jump ships at the time)
Thus with the return of the Jump-ships it is Victor’s responsibility to clean up the mess that is the Chaos March – his inaction in not doing so in the thunderous.
Worlds she started military action were part of the purge – you do realis that purge is an incorrect term of what is occurring on these worlds?
The Lords of these worlds are openly in conflict with their legal Liege Lord – thus Katherine is legally allowed to dispatch military forces o bring them to heel.
Thus the correct legal term is a police action.
Yes, a monarch can arrange a visit – however as none were ever arranged by the Marik family including his Mother Sophina (dd. 3057 – between 12 June to 16 August – whist Joshua dd. 20 May same year – so she went to the grave never knowing that her son was dead – so this is on Victor also), sister Isis, and other siblings Janos III, Christopher, and Jessica were never allowed to visit NAIS as far as we know – which is the Thunderous as Thomas (“his father”) would have to approve all visits indicates a very unusual relationship with his “son”.
The SL had ways to get the news out – yes this is correct – However, as no one except for those in the inner circle of Amaris’ court knew the fate of the Cameron family the idea that they knew they were all dead is highly speculative.
Any report to Kerensky would this have been – Cameron Family Status: UNKNOWN.
As far as the books read – Kerensky was unable to gain accurate information until he took the capital. Thus, as he did not immediately make a push on Terra demonstrates that he is incompetent.
Oh yes all of these questions were answered in their entirety word for word (heavy on the satire!)
Quote:
And the alt will never be shown as it is perfect logic. As seen by all the snippets brought here, yet constantly shows to be fully flawed, just like the canon story.
Have already made judgement - As I said, I am done with the c_ _ _ thrown in, just to argue - prior to supply of evidence! Why bother providing?
Not supplying – it has no relevance at all to canon … no character from canon, all realms different … so why bother when the judgement is already in?
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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ghostrider
07/23/22 02:39 AM
45.51.181.83
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Fishing?
Are we fishing for shark? Swordfish? Tuna? Sea Bass?
When is this set to happen?
I hope I can get on the charter. It would be nice to spend a day on the water.
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Requiem
07/23/22 08:39 PM
1.147.82.21
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Curatis
Also: How can he advise Victor on all governmental department correspondence when for the most part he is out and about attempting to find evidence at Victor’s insistence?
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Duke_of_the_Sarna_March
Victor Steiner-Davion 3051 onwards – the same time as the conference on Outreach!
Categorically, therefore, the Chaos March is without question Victor’s responsibility – due to his inaction the Chaos March eventuated as well as returning to the CC.
I find it interesting that Victor is now a Duke of a March and yet his is remaining with his unit rather than ruling as all other March Lords are expected to do so.
We can therefore say that without any reservation he is INCOMPETENT!
Joshua Marik – arranging a visit.
Outreach Summit - 12 Jan 3051
Shortly thereafter Joshua will be transferred to NAIoS … note he was on Outreach in 3051
Book – Blood Legacy – identifies him as 5 years old (b – 3046) - though this would mean he was born prior to his parent’s marriage in 3047 - whereas all other books has him being born in 3048 - demonstrating an error in the writing of this book!
Thus was 3 when arrived in NAIoS – and Dd 20 May 3057 at 9.
Question how many memories does Joshua have of his parents and “sister” if for the past 6 years he has been in NAIoS?.
Consequently, we are expected to believe that during this entire time none of his parents (including his mother!!!!) or Isis (now 17) were allowed to visit him (As Thomas arranged for her to be married to Sun-Tzu in 3052)?
Striped Marlin which confirmed my belief that once a little information is supplied as to the lack of comparability any request to post will dissolve in the wind – and can also be seen as the Thunderous!
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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ghostrider
07/24/22 04:55 PM
45.51.181.83
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Put up or shut up.
Only one person has any idea on the response put up, and they have bragged about how perfect it was.
Now, they will not show anyone how it is written. There is no insight into how the alt really is, as we only get bits and pieces of it, and nothing more.
As it looks like only arguing about it will bring any attention to it, this is done until all can read it.
So from now on, all responses from me are put up or shut up.
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Requiem
07/25/22 10:08 PM
1.147.82.21
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So rather than accepting what was / and was not given (in the form of his “fiefdom”) Victor continues with his rant in desiring what he should not have been allowed given his past performance and actions– is the word Petulant?
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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Karagin
07/25/22 10:31 PM
70.118.172.64
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So are we going to see the ALT Requiem as its own topic? That would be the best thing to do. That way, we can all read it, offer input, see why you keep falling back on the points you do, and then we will see your point of departure and viewpoint on why and how things changed, so I highly suggest that you take ghostrider's advice and just post the ALT.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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