GiovanniBlasini
07/17/14 03:41 AM
75.85.176.204
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Because, like the primitive Wasp, you can build one without changing the engine size. And because I could.
Code: Phoenix Hawk PXH-0
Mass: 45 tons Tech Base: Inner Sphere (Primitive) Chassis Config: Biped Rules Level: Era Specific Era: All Eras (non-canon) Tech Rating/Era Availability: D/E-X-F-A Production Year: 3146 Cost: 3,541,915 C-Bills Battle Value: 835
Chassis: Orguss WSP Prototype Primitive Structure Power Plant: GM 270 Primitive Fusion Engine Walking Speed: 54.0 km/h Maximum Speed: 86.4 km/h Jump Jets: Rawlings 45 Jump Capacity: 150 meters Armor: Durrallex Simple Light Primitive Armament: 1 Harmon Large Laser Manufacturer: Niops New Project Workshops Primary Factory: Niops VII Communications System: Neil 6000 Targeting and Tracking System: Octagon Tartrac System C
Overview: Despite their own internal efforts, and those of the Word of Blake, the Niops Association and their Militia managed to survive the Jihad. The much-vaunted Niops Project Workshops, responsible for construction of the Star League level military hardware fielded by the Niops Association Militia, were less lucky, and with the chaos of the Niops system subsequent to the Jihad and their civil war, it was not until 3145 that the Niops Association once again tried their hand at domestic 'Mech manufacturing.
Between raids by the Marian Hegemony, their civil war, and the extended warfare with the Word of Blake, the Niops Association found they had little starting point to rebuilt their workshops, as most of the tooling and manufacturing gear needed to make BattleMechs itself was unsalvagable, and availability of new tools and equipment was hard to come by on the open market.
In the end, the new Project Workshops found they could not reproduce the breadth of designs they had previously, and that the quality of product they'd be able to build would take years to reach their old levels. Setting their sights low, they chose to start with one BattleMech design in limited, hoping to expand production eventually as they overcame manufacturing bottlenecks, and continuing to rely primarily on import of military hardware.
The result, the PXH-0 Phoenix Hawk, was less than inspiring.
Capabilities: It rapidly became clear that only one of their old fusion engine production workshops could be salvaged, that for the GM 270 standard fusion plants formerly used in the NAM's Highlanders. What could not be salvaged, though, was the tooling to build skeletal structures for the Highlander...or any other 'Mech larger than 50 tons. Double heat sinks were an impossibility, and producing standard-grade myomers were proving problematic, with initial batches proving no better than the first production runs of 'Mechs like the Mackie or Banshee. Armor production was also disappointing, with early batches indicating only 67% the resiliency of standard BattleMech grade armor, while ferro-fibrous, like endo steel, would be a lost cause for some time.
With that in mind, the Niops New Project Workshops (NNPW) found that, with their limited industrial base, there was one design they could field, in a somewhat bowdlerized "RetroTech" fashion: the Phoenix Hawk. Blueprints to produce the PXH-1 and PXH-2 series Phoenix Hawks still existed in their records, spare parts for the PXH-1 (which could generally be adapted to the PXH-2) were still available on the open market, and tooling for the old design wasn't hard to come by, as most Inner Sphere and Periphery powers that produced Phoenix Hawks had long since moved on to more advanced model.
The plan, then, was simple: produce a basic PXH-1 or - 2 series chassis, use the inefficient myomers the NNPW could currently produce, armor it as best they could, and kludge together a cockpit and control system from whatever was available. The same 270-rating GM fusion plant that would drive a normal PXH-1 Phoenix Hawk could drive their RetroTech early attemts at 86 KPH, and, as industrial capabilities improved, newer components could be introduced.
Twelve months after initial efforts to produce their new Phoenix Hawk began, the first of the new 'Mechs, designated the PXH-0, was completed. While not a complete disaster, it was definitely lacking compared to its progenitor. Despite carrying 10.5 tons of armor plating, armor protection was 12.5% lower tan the PXH-1 or PXH-2. In addition to the loss of speed, jump range was reduced by 30 meters due to power distribution issues. Poor quality electronics forced both an increase in the number of computer "blades" installed in the 'Mechs computer racks, and forced an increase in cooling for the computers, ballooning the weight of the cockpit and control systems by an additional two tons.
The weight increases across the PXH-0 in turn, reduced the overall weapons payload to only five tons, forcing NNPW engineers and the NAM procurers that would take delivery to choose what was more important: close-range weapons such as machine guns and medium lasers, or the medium-range large laser. Attempts were made to source light PPCs that could have replaced the large laser, allowing it to be mounted alongside the original Phoenix Hawk's medium lasers, but these proved unsuccessful. In the end, the large number of surplus parts and tooling, along with eventual plans to upgrade to the original PXH-1 or PXH-2 specs, encouraged the NNPW to stick with what was proven: the quck-release-mount Harmon large laser.
Battle History: To date, the PXH-0 Phoenix Hawk has, fortunately, not been forced to fight a true combat engagement. Simulated combat, though, shows that, despite its reduction in speed, firepower and armor, the 'Mech is not completely hopeless, as it's still relatively durable, and lacks volatile ammunition that could otherwise rapidly disable the 'Mech. However, it still trails its more advanced progenitor notably, earning the PXH-0 the unflattering nickname of "Broke Beak Buzzard" amongst mechwarriors in the Niops Association Militia.
Deployment: After the initial prototype was, much to their chagrin, accepted by the Niops Association Militia, the NNPW continued production, completing one 'Mech every two months. By the end of 3046, then, they anticipate fielding a full company of the new design though, to date, only four of the RetroTech BattleMechs have been completed
"Buzzard Jockeys", as Niops Association Militia mechwarriors assigned to the PXH-0 Phoenix Hawk are now being called, have been less than enthused with the new BattleMech, in no small part due to the disparity in performance between their 'Mechs, and those either salvaged from the Jihad battlefields or subsequently purchased from Niops' neighbors.
Unfortunately, Workshop engineers estimate that the ability to produce a "standard" tech level Phoenix Hawk like the PXH-1 may be at least five years away, while the sophisticated Guardian ECM suites of the PXH-2 could take even longer to reproduce. NAM commanders plan, in the meantime, to use the PXH-0 in both mechwarrior training, in place of 'Mechs like the Chameleon, but also as the first 'Mech assignment for recent academy graduates, concentrating more advanced designs in the hands of more experienced pilots. With the quick release feature of the Harmon large laser, PXH-0 pilots may also find themselves increasingly working as combat engineers, in addition to civil defense and standard patrol duties.
Variants: At present, the limited industrial capacity of the Niops New Project Workshops has not lended itself to producing variants of the PXH-0 Phoenix Hawk, especially as they've, to date, only delivered four BattleMechs
Still, NNPW hopes to eventually source light PPCs that can be used to supplement the Harmon large laser in some of their RetroTech Phoenix Hawks, allowing them to get hands-on experience with remounting the forearm medium lasers of the original Phoenix Hawk models. While still only in early design sketches and partial blueprints, this model has been provisionally designated the PXH-0b.
Another variant under discussion, though even less far along than the plans for the PXH-0b, would instead focus on electronics warfare, presuming sources for the necessary electronics can be found. Designated the PXH-0c, this version would carry a Guardian ECM suite and Beagle active probe, allowing it to both screen other units, or to function as a scout. Armament would be limited to twin medium lasers.
Additional: Design Quirks: Jettison-Capable Weapon (Large Laser), Bad Reputation
================================================================================ Equipment Type Rating Mass -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Internal Structure: Primitive Structure 75 points 4.50 Engine: Primitive Fusion Engine 270 14.50 Walking MP: 5 Running MP: 8 Jumping MP: 5 Standard Jump Jet Locations: 1 CT, 2 LT, 2 RT 2.50 Heat Sinks: Single Heat Sink 10 0.00 Gyro: Standard 3.00 Cockpit: Primitive 5.00 Actuators: L: SH+UA+LA+H R: SH+UA+LA+H Armor: Primitive AV - 112 10.50
Internal Armor Structure Factor Head 3 6 Center Torso 14 17 Center Torso (rear) 5 L/R Torso 11 14 L/R Torso (rear) 4 L/R Arm 7 10 L/R Leg 11 14
================================================================================ Equipment Location Heat Critical Mass -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Large Laser RA 8 2 5.00 Free Critical Slots: 40
BattleForce Statistics MV S (+0) M (+2) L (+4) E (+6) Wt. Ov Armor: 4 Points: 8 5j 1 1 0 0 2 0 Structure: 4 Special Abilities: ENE, SRCH, ES, SEAL, SOA
Member of the Pundit Caste
"Which side are we on? We're on the side of the demons, Chief. We're evil men in the gardens of paradise, sent by the forces of death to spread devastation and destruction wherever we go. I'm surprised you didn't know that." -- Col. Saul Tigh, BSG2003
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Cray
07/17/14 06:19 PM
97.101.96.171
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Excellent fluff, excellent retrofit (har) to retrotech, and somewhat useful - sort of like an overweight, faster Panther.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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GiovanniBlasini
07/17/14 11:41 PM
99.38.106.247
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Gracias. I did get a suggestion over on Classic Battletech to cut the armor and reintroduce some of the secondary armament. And the idea kind of makes sense, especially if I cut back to 8.0 or 8.5 tons, but that cuts a heck of lot of armor to gain back up to 3 tons.
Thoughts?
Member of the Pundit Caste
"Which side are we on? We're on the side of the demons, Chief. We're evil men in the gardens of paradise, sent by the forces of death to spread devastation and destruction wherever we go. I'm surprised you didn't know that." -- Col. Saul Tigh, BSG2003
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GiovanniBlasini
07/20/14 03:19 AM
75.85.176.204
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Decided to do some revamping, and went...a different route. With the armor reduction, it's closer to an oversized VLK in terms of armor and mobility. Despite the armor loss, I'm thinking I'm liking this better than my first attempt. Feels more like a Phoenix Hawk, even with the reduction in jump distance for the -0a and -0b (I don't like misbalanced jump jets).
Phoenix Hawk PXH-0
Mass: 45 tons Tech Base: Inner Sphere (Primitive) Chassis Config: Biped Rules Level: Era Specific Era: All Eras (non-canon) Tech Rating/Era Availability: D/E-X-F-A Production Year: 3146 Cost: 3,643,415 C-Bills Battle Value: 888
Chassis: Orguss WSP Prototype Primitive Structure Power Plant: GM 270 Primitive Fusion Engine Walking Speed: 54.0 km/h Maximum Speed: 86.4 km/h Jump Jets: Rawlings 45 Jump Capacity: 150 meters Armor: Durrallex Simple Light Primitive Armament: 1 Harmon Large Laser 2 Harmon Medium Lasers Manufacturer: Niops New Project Workshops Primary Factory: Niops VII Communications System: TransComm Alpha Targeting and Tracking System: TransComm Beta
Overview: Despite their own internal efforts, and those of the Word of Blake, the Niops Association and their Militia managed to survive the Jihad. The much-vaunted Niops Project Workshops, responsible for construction of the Star League level military hardware fielded by the Niops Association Militia, were less lucky, and with the chaos of the Niops system subsequent to the Jihad and their civil war, it was not until 3145 that the Niops Association once again tried their hand at domestic 'Mech manufacturing.
Between raids by the Marian Hegemony, their civil war, and the extended warfare with the Word of Blake, the Niops Association found they had little starting point to rebuilt their workshops, as most of the tooling and manufacturing gear needed to make BattleMechs itself was unsalvagable, and availability of new tools and equipment was hard to come by on the open market.
In the end, the new Project Workshops found they could not reproduce the breadth of designs they had previously, and that the quality of product they'd be able to build would take years to reach their old levels. Setting their sights low, they chose to start with one BattleMech design in limited numbers, hoping to expand production eventually as they overcame manufacturing bottlenecks, and continuing to rely primarily on import of military hardware. The new BattleMech would hopefully provide the Niops Association Militia with an electronic warfare 'Mech that modern battlefield trends indicated would be vitally important, but that also appeared to be in short supply at times on the open market.
The result, the PXH-0 Phoenix Hawk, was less than inspiring.
Capabilities: It rapidly became clear that only one of their old fusion engine production workshops could be salvaged, that for the GM 270 standard fusion plants formerly used in the NAM's Highlanders. What could not be salvaged, though, was the tooling to build skeletal structures for the Highlander...or any other 'Mech larger than 50 tons. Double heat sinks were an impossibility, and producing standard-grade myomers were proving problematic, with initial batches proving no better than the first production runs of 'Mechs like the Mackie or Banshee. Armor production was also disappointing, with early batches indicating only 67% the resiliency of standard BattleMech grade armor, while ferro-fibrous, like endo steel, would be a lost cause for some time.
One thing the Niops Association did have on hand, and in large numbers, were salvaged Guardian ECM suites left over from wreckage of Word of Blake BattleMechs, and Beagle Active Probes from NAM's own wrecked Black Knights, and weapons such as medium lasers, of a wide variety of manufacturers, were readily available in terms of salvage. Adaptation of a variety of BattleMechs to use a single standardized medium laser, the Harmon Starclass used on the HGN-732 Highlander, had lapsed from living memory by 3145, but some institutional memory had survived in a handful of salvaged records.
With that in mind, the Niops New Project Workshops (NNPW) found that, with their limited industrial base, there was one design they could field, in a somewhat bowlderized "RetroTech" fashion: the Phoenix Hawk. Blueprints to produce the PXH-1 and PXH-2 series Phoenix Hawks still existed in their records, spare parts for the PXH-1 (which could generally be adapted to the PXH-2) were still available on the open market, and tooling for the old design wasn't hard to come by, as most Inner Sphere and Periphery powers that produced Phoenix Hawks had long since moved on to more advanced model.
The plan, then, was simple: produce a basic PXH-2 series chassis, use the inefficient myomers the NNPW could currently produce, armor it as best they could, and kludge together a cockpit and control system from whatever was available. The same 270-rating GM fusion plant that would drive a normal PXH-1 Phoenix Hawk could drive their RetroTech early attemts at 86 KPH, and, as industrial capabilities improved, newer components could be introduced. Salvaged electronics could be fitted in the Phoenix Hawk's center torso racks, until such time as the Guardian ECM or Beagle Active Probe production could be reestablished.
Twelve months after initial efforts to produce their new Phoenix Hawk began, the first of the new 'Mechs, designated the PXH-0, was completed. While not a complete disaster, it was definitely lacking compared to its progenitor. Due to the inferior quality of the new armor plating, the new Phoenix Hawk's overall protection was 33% lower than the PXH-2 it was designed to emulate. In addition to the loss of speed, jump range was reduced by 60 meters due to power distribution issues. Newly-produced control systems and computers forced both an increase in the number of computer "blades" installed in the 'Mechs' computer racks, and forced an increase in cooling for the computers, ballooning the weight of the cockpit and control systems by an additional two tons.
The weight increases across the PXH-0 in turn, reduced the overall weapons payload to only 7.5 tons, which would need to be divided between weaponry and specialty electronics. This forced NNPW engineers and the NAM procurers that would take delivery to choose what was more important: close-range weapons such as machine guns and medium lasers, or the medium-range large laser.
Attempts were made to source light PPCs that could have replaced the large laser, allowing it to be mounted alongside the original Phoenix Hawk's medium lasers, but these proved unsuccessful. In the end, the large number of surplus parts and tooling, along with eventual plans to upgrade to the original PXH-2 specs, encouraged the NNPW to stick with what was proven: the quck-release-mount Harmon large laser and existing stockpiles of salvaged Harmon medium lasers. With only sufficient mass to mount a single medium laser, the left forearm mount was chosen for the PXH-0, in order to ensure the greatest field of fire for the BattleMech: the large laser could cover a wide arc in front and to the right of the 'Mech, while the medium would cover the left and front sides.
Battle History: To date, the PXH-0 Phoenix Hawk has, fortunately, not been forced to fight a true combat engagement. Simulated combat, though, shows that, despite its reduction in speed, firepower and armor, the 'Mech is not completely hopeless, as it's still relatively durable, and lacks volatile ammunition that could otherwise rapidly disable the 'Mech. However, it still trails its more advanced progenitor notably, earning the PXH-0 the unflattering nickname of "Broke Beak Buzzard" amongst mechwarriors in the Niops Association Militia.
Deployment: After the initial prototype was, much to their chagrin, accepted by the Niops Association Militia, the NNPW continued production, completing one 'Mech every two months. By the end of 3046, then, they anticipate fielding a full company of the new design though, to date, only four of the RetroTech BattleMechs have been completed.
"Buzzard Jockeys", as Niops Association Militia mechwarriors assigned to the PXH-0 Phoenix Hawk are now being called, have been less than enthused with the new BattleMech, in no small part due to the disparity in performance between their 'Mechs, and those either salvaged from the Jihad battlefields or subsequently purchased from Niops' neighbors.
Unfortunately, Workshop engineers estimate that the ability to produce a "standard" tech level Phoenix Hawk like the PXH-1 may be at least five years away, while the sophisticated Guardian ECM suites of the PXH-2 could take even longer to reproduce. NAM commanders plan, in the meantime, to use the PXH-0 in both mechwarrior training as more become available, in place of 'Mechs like the Chameleon, but also as the first 'Mech assignment for recent academy graduates, concentrating more advanced designs in the hands of more experienced pilots.
With the quick release feature of the Harmon large laser, PXH-0 pilots may also find themselves increasingly working as combat engineers, in addition to civil defense and standard patrol duties. While NAM's two PXH-0a Phoenix Hawk pilots have found themselves assigned to garrison lances, providing ECM and fire support for the Militia's infantry and armored units, the Beagle Probes of the two PXH-0b Phoenix Hawks have proven highy valuable in salvage and reclamation efforts across still-devastated areas of the Niops Association, and have been assigned to assist two of the Militia Irregulars units on Niops V and VI, the Niops Browncoats and Tir na Niops Faradrim.
Variants: At present, the limited industrial capacity of the Niops New Project Workshops has not lended itself to producing any major variants of the PXH-0 Phoenix Hawk, especially as they've, to date, only delivered four BattleMechs.
Of the four 'Mechs delivered, two mount Guardian ECM suites, a configuration that has been designated the PXH-0a Phoenix Hawk. The other two BattleMechs utilize Beagle Active Probes, and have been designated the PXH-0b Phoenix Hawk.
Still, NNPW hopes to eventually source light PPCs that can be used to supplement the Harmon large laser in some of their RetroTech Phoenix Hawks, which would allow an additional two tons of weaponry, permitting NNPW to mount a second medium laser in the right arm mount, as well as an anti-personnel weapon, such as a flamer, small pulse laser, or machine gun with 500 kg of ammunition. The project study group for this has provisionally designated these versions the -0c and -0d. NNPW would like to open negotiations with the Sea Foxes of the resurgent FWL's Clan Protectorate for either micro pulse lasers or Clan-tech level machine guns but, at present, that does not seem a likely prospect.
In the meantime, shortages of salvagable specialty electronics for the PXH-0a or PXH-0b configurations have concerned Militia commanders. NNPW plans to address the issue with a third variant, designated the PXH-0 (with, as the chief engineer for the Phoenix Hawk project stated, "No bloody 'a', 'b', 'c', *or* 'd'), would mount the quick-detach Harmon large laser, twin medium lasers and, with no pesky electronics complicating the center torso, additional power distribution cables and cooling to extend the jump capacity of the 'Mech by another 30 meters.
Additional: Design Quirks: Jettison-Capable Weapon (Large Laser), Bad Reputation
================================================================================ Equipment Type Rating Mass -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Internal Structure: Primitive Structure 75 points 4.50 Engine: Primitive Fusion Engine 270 14.50 Walking MP: 5 Running MP: 8 Jumping MP: 5 Standard Jump Jet Locations: 1 CT, 2 LT, 2 RT 2.50 Heat Sinks: Single Heat Sink 10 0.00 Gyro: Standard 3.00 Cockpit: Primitive 5.00 Actuators: L: SH+UA+LA+H R: SH+UA+LA+H Armor: Primitive AV - 91 8.50
Internal Armor Structure Factor Head 3 8 Center Torso 14 13 Center Torso (rear) 4 L/R Torso 11 11 L/R Torso (rear) 3 L/R Arm 7 8 L/R Leg 11 11
================================================================================ Equipment Location Heat Critical Mass -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Large Laser RA 8 2 5.00 Medium Laser RA 3 1 1.00 Medium Laser LA 3 1 1.00 Free Critical Slots: 38
BattleForce Statistics MV S (+0) M (+2) L (+4) E (+6) Wt. Ov Armor: 3 Points: 9 5j 2 2 0 0 2 0 Structure: 4 Special Abilities: ENE, SRCH, ES, SEAL, SOA
Phoenix Hawk PXH-0a
Mass: 45 tons Tech Base: Inner Sphere (Primitive) Chassis Config: Biped Rules Level: Era Specific Era: All Eras (non-canon) Tech Rating/Era Availability: E/E-X-F-A Production Year: 3146 Cost: 3,757,965 C-Bills Battle Value: 899
Chassis: Orguss WSP Prototype Primitive Structure Power Plant: GM 270 Primitive Fusion Engine Walking Speed: 54.0 km/h Maximum Speed: 86.4 km/h Jump Jets: Rawlings 45 Jump Capacity: 120 meters Armor: Durrallex Simple Light Primitive Armament: 1 Harmon Large Laser 1 Harmon Medium Laser 1 Guardian ECM Suite Manufacturer: Niops New Project Workshops Primary Factory: Niops VII Communications System: TransComm Alpha Targeting and Tracking System: TransComm Beta
Additional: Design Quirks: Jettison-Capable Weapon (Large Laser), Bad Reputation
================================================================================ Equipment Type Rating Mass -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Internal Structure: Primitive Structure 75 points 4.50 Engine: Primitive Fusion Engine 270 14.50 Walking MP: 5 Running MP: 8 Jumping MP: 4 Standard Jump Jet Locations: 2 LT, 2 RT 2.00 Heat Sinks: Single Heat Sink 10 0.00 Gyro: Standard 3.00 Cockpit: Primitive 5.00 Actuators: L: SH+UA+LA+H R: SH+UA+LA+H Armor: Primitive AV - 91 8.50
Internal Armor Structure Factor Head 3 8 Center Torso 14 13 Center Torso (rear) 4 L/R Torso 11 11 L/R Torso (rear) 3 L/R Arm 7 8 L/R Leg 11 11
================================================================================ Equipment Location Heat Critical Mass -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Large Laser RA 8 2 5.00 Medium Laser LA 3 1 1.00 Guardian ECM Suite CT 0 2 1.50 Free Critical Slots: 38
BattleForce Statistics MV S (+0) M (+2) L (+4) E (+6) Wt. Ov Armor: 3 Points: 9 5/3j 2 2 0 0 2 0 Structure: 4 Special Abilities: ECM, ENE, SRCH, ES, SEAL, SOA
Phoenix Hawk PXH-0b
Mass: 45 tons Tech Base: Inner Sphere (Primitive) Chassis Config: Biped Rules Level: Era Specific Era: All Eras (non-canon) Tech Rating/Era Availability: E/E-X-F-A Production Year: 3146 Cost: 3,757,965 C-Bills Battle Value: 833
Chassis: Orguss WSP Prototype Primitive Structure Power Plant: GM 270 Primitive Fusion Engine Walking Speed: 54.0 km/h Maximum Speed: 86.4 km/h Jump Jets: Rawlings 45 Jump Capacity: 120 meters Armor: Durrallex Simple Light Primitive Armament: 1 Harmon Large Laser 1 Harmon Medium Laser 1 Beagle Active Probe Manufacturer: Niops New Project Workshops Primary Factory: Niops VII Communications System: TransComm Alpha Targeting and Tracking System: TransComm Beta
Additional: Design Quirks: Jettison-Capable Weapon (Large Laser), Bad Reputation
================================================================================ Equipment Type Rating Mass -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Internal Structure: Primitive Structure 75 points 4.50 Engine: Primitive Fusion Engine 270 14.50 Walking MP: 5 Running MP: 8 Jumping MP: 4 Standard Jump Jet Locations: 2 LT, 2 RT 2.00 Heat Sinks: Single Heat Sink 10 0.00 Gyro: Standard 3.00 Cockpit: Primitive 5.00 Actuators: L: SH+UA+LA+H R: SH+UA+LA+H Armor: Primitive AV - 91 8.50
Internal Armor Structure Factor Head 3 8 Center Torso 14 13 Center Torso (rear) 4 L/R Torso 11 11 L/R Torso (rear) 3 L/R Arm 7 8 L/R Leg 11 11
================================================================================ Equipment Location Heat Critical Mass -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Large Laser RA 8 2 5.00 Medium Laser LA 3 1 1.00 Beagle Active Probe CT 0 2 1.50 Free Critical Slots: 38
BattleForce Statistics MV S (+0) M (+2) L (+4) E (+6) Wt. Ov Armor: 3 Points: 8 5/3j 2 2 0 0 2 0 Structure: 4 Special Abilities: PRB, RCN, ENE, SRCH, ES, SEAL, SOA
Member of the Pundit Caste
"Which side are we on? We're on the side of the demons, Chief. We're evil men in the gardens of paradise, sent by the forces of death to spread devastation and destruction wherever we go. I'm surprised you didn't know that." -- Col. Saul Tigh, BSG2003
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TigerShark
07/20/14 02:34 PM
104.49.175.97
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The first seems more "canon." The Primitives often keep the same armor layout as their later, more advanced children. The armament and sinks tend to suffer. That first post encapsulates the design concept well.
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GiovanniBlasini
07/21/14 02:40 AM
75.85.176.204
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Quote: TigerShark writes:
The first seems more "canon." The Primitives often keep the same armor layout as their later, more advanced children. The armament and sinks tend to suffer. That first post encapsulates the design concept well.
There's actually a method to my madness here.
First, yes, a lot of them carry more tonnage for armor, but they still generally lose armor overall. The primitive Wasp and Commando each lose 11 points, the Thunderbolt loses 5 points, and the Firebee 27 points, for example.
Second, with the exception of the Centurion, all the primitive BattleMechs, chronologically, were the first of their kind. The Marian's CN9-H is the obvious exception. And, yes, it does sport an additional 0.5 tons of armor over the original Centurion but, then, the revamp I did of the PXH-0 sports an additional half-ton of armor over the PXH-1, too.
Third, I'm trying to portray a Niops that's industrially heavily constrained. A good portion of their tooling for the Phoenix Hawk was purchased on the open market, from cast-offs other factions weren't using, and they're building these Phoenix Hawks from ancient blueprints they'd had sitting around and were lucky to not have nuked. To top it off, they haven't built a BattleMech in around 70 years. So they're making armor plates the same size, shape and, more or less, weight of the original, but since they're using crappier alloys to do it, the end result is worse protection for the same mass.
Last, throwing in secondary weapons or electronics reinforces the idea that Niops, to a large extent, is still scavenging parts from 'Mechs that died seven decades earlier. Mixing the primitive tech base with sophisticated stuff like Guardian ECM suites and Beagle probes reinforces that.
But, yeah, overall, I'd say the uparmored model that sacrifices the secondary weaponry is probably more solid. I suspect, though, they'd probably end up building the others instead.
Member of the Pundit Caste
"Which side are we on? We're on the side of the demons, Chief. We're evil men in the gardens of paradise, sent by the forces of death to spread devastation and destruction wherever we go. I'm surprised you didn't know that." -- Col. Saul Tigh, BSG2003
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Cray
07/21/14 07:14 PM
67.8.171.23
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Quote: GiovanniBlasini writes:
Gracias. I did get a suggestion over on Classic Battletech to cut the armor and reintroduce some of the secondary armament. And the idea kind of makes sense, especially if I cut back to 8.0 or 8.5 tons, but that cuts a heck of lot of armor to gain back up to 3 tons.
I'd trade out the large laser for a battery of alternate weapons rather than cut the armor. You don't have enough to spare, even when facing normal Periphery threats.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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GiovanniBlasini
07/21/14 09:49 PM
12.69.238.34
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Quote: Cray writes:
Quote: GiovanniBlasini writes:
Gracias. I did get a suggestion over on Classic Battletech to cut the armor and reintroduce some of the secondary armament. And the idea kind of makes sense, especially if I cut back to 8.0 or 8.5 tons, but that cuts a heck of lot of armor to gain back up to 3 tons.
I'd trade out the large laser for a battery of alternate weapons rather than cut the armor. You don't have enough to spare, even when facing normal Periphery threats.
Part of my concern, though, is how hard it would be for someone in the shoes of Dark Age Niops to not only restart 'Mech production, but to make major changes to the 'Mech design itself.
First major issue I had is figuring out how hard it would be for them to tack on more mass in armor than was mounted on the original. I figured it'd be easier to simply use the same mass of armor, even if it's cheaper quality, than to try to add heavier armor in place of the original.
As for alternate weaponry, that's certainly possible, and newer weapons would enforce the idea of "RetroTech" rather than simply primitive, but the only sources of newer tech weapons Niops would have would be what they could pull of Blakist 'Mechs destroyed during the Jihad (which would've had to be sitting around for quite a while) and what they could buy tooling and production for on the open market. Other than the Rim Commonality, I'm not sure where they could expect to get those.
Member of the Pundit Caste
"Which side are we on? We're on the side of the demons, Chief. We're evil men in the gardens of paradise, sent by the forces of death to spread devastation and destruction wherever we go. I'm surprised you didn't know that." -- Col. Saul Tigh, BSG2003
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ghostrider
07/22/14 02:44 AM
24.30.141.170
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Some major changes might be easy, depending on what you do to change it. Downgrading the large hand held laser for say a stinger or wasps medium hand held might work well. Granted the loss of range might be too much to consider.
Hell, just making it a heavier version of the stinger might work. The main difference between the 2 is the large laser and a second medium, and 25 tons. You could also try the panthers/battlemasters/griffins old ppc in place of the large laser, though not sure how many blakist mechs used that set up.
Another question is what other mechs did the niops make? That would be a big help in an modifications.
And the black market might be the place to pickup the tooling needed to get a factory up and running. I would think some of the blakists ran off with machine parts when they realized they were not going to win.
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GiovanniBlasini
07/22/14 04:16 AM
75.85.176.204
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Quote: ghostrider writes:
Some major changes might be easy, depending on what you do to change it. Downgrading the large hand held laser for say a stinger or wasps medium hand held might work well. Granted the loss of range might be too much to consider.
Hell, just making it a heavier version of the stinger might work. The main difference between the 2 is the large laser and a second medium, and 25 tons. You could also try the panthers/battlemasters/griffins old ppc in place of the large laser, though not sure how many blakist mechs used that set up.
Another question is what other mechs did the niops make? That would be a big help in an modifications.
And the black market might be the place to pickup the tooling needed to get a factory up and running. I would think some of the blakists ran off with machine parts when they realized they were not going to win.
Canon stated only four designs by name: the Highlander, Black Knight, Burke tank, and Nighthawk PA(L). They were also stated to have an aerospace arm that was as heavy as their 'Mechs arm.
Member of the Pundit Caste
"Which side are we on? We're on the side of the demons, Chief. We're evil men in the gardens of paradise, sent by the forces of death to spread devastation and destruction wherever we go. I'm surprised you didn't know that." -- Col. Saul Tigh, BSG2003
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Cray
07/22/14 06:18 PM
67.8.171.23
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Quote: GiovanniBlasini writes: As for alternate weaponry, that's certainly possible, and newer weapons would enforce the idea of "RetroTech" rather than simply primitive, but the only sources of newer tech weapons Niops would have would be what they could pull of Blakist 'Mechs destroyed during the Jihad (which would've had to be sitting around for quite a while) and what they could buy tooling and production for on the open market. Other than the Rim Commonality, I'm not sure where they could expect to get those.
I wasn't thinking of "newer tech" weapons, but rather items like you've deployed on other Niops units: medium lasers, for example. Other items in that weight budget would include SRMs and similar primitive gear. It gets you away from the single big gun drawback.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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GiovanniBlasini
07/24/14 09:14 PM
12.69.238.34
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Quote: Cray writes:
Quote: GiovanniBlasini writes: As for alternate weaponry, that's certainly possible, and newer weapons would enforce the idea of "RetroTech" rather than simply primitive, but the only sources of newer tech weapons Niops would have would be what they could pull of Blakist 'Mechs destroyed during the Jihad (which would've had to be sitting around for quite a while) and what they could buy tooling and production for on the open market. Other than the Rim Commonality, I'm not sure where they could expect to get those.
I wasn't thinking of "newer tech" weapons, but rather items like you've deployed on other Niops units: medium lasers, for example. Other items in that weight budget would include SRMs and similar primitive gear. It gets you away from the single big gun drawback.
True. If tacking on more mass in armor isn't too out of the question, then combining that idea, ghostrider's and TigerShark's could get the PXH-0 back to 12 tons of armor easily enough (for 128 points - yay!), along with three medium lasers (one in each forearm, one "handheld" like the unseen Stinger), along with a PXH-1K style SLoD ("Small Laser of Doom).
Member of the Pundit Caste
"Which side are we on? We're on the side of the demons, Chief. We're evil men in the gardens of paradise, sent by the forces of death to spread devastation and destruction wherever we go. I'm surprised you didn't know that." -- Col. Saul Tigh, BSG2003
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GiovanniBlasini
07/25/14 04:32 AM
75.85.176.204
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This is what that would end up looking like (no fluff yet):
Phoenix Hawk PXH-0c
Mass: 45 tons Tech Base: Inner Sphere (Primitive) Chassis Config: Biped Rules Level: Era Specific Era: All Eras (non-canon) Tech Rating/Era Availability: D/E-X-F-A Production Year: 3146 Cost: 3,585,415 C-Bills Battle Value: 933
Chassis: Orguss WSP Prototype Primitive Structure Power Plant: GM 270 Primitive Fusion Engine Walking Speed: 54.0 km/h Maximum Speed: 86.4 km/h Jump Jets: Rawlings 45 Jump Capacity: 150 meters Armor: Durrallex Simple Light Primitive Armament: 3 Medium Lasers Manufacturer: Niops New Project Workshops Primary Factory: Niops VII Communications System: Neil 6000 Targeting and Tracking System: Octagon Tartrac System C
Additional: Design Quirks: Jettison-Capable Weapon (Medium Laser), Bad Reputation
================================================================================ Equipment Type Rating Mass -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Internal Structure: Primitive Structure 75 points 4.50 Engine: Primitive Fusion Engine 270 14.50 Walking MP: 5 Running MP: 8 Jumping MP: 5 Standard Jump Jet Locations: 1 CT, 2 LT, 2 RT 2.50 Heat Sinks: Single Heat Sink 10 0.00 Gyro: Standard 3.00 Cockpit: Primitive 5.00 Actuators: L: SH+UA+LA+H R: SH+UA+LA+H Armor: Primitive AV - 134 12.50
Internal Armor Structure Factor Head 3 8 Center Torso 14 23 Center Torso (rear) 5 L/R Torso 11 18 L/R Torso (rear) 4 L/R Arm 7 10 L/R Leg 11 17
================================================================================ Equipment Location Heat Critical Mass -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2 Medium Lasers RA 6 2 2.00 Medium Laser LA 3 1 1.00 Free Critical Slots: 39
BattleForce Statistics MV S (+0) M (+2) L (+4) E (+6) Wt. Ov Armor: 4 Points: 9 5j 2 2 0 0 2 0 Structure: 4 Special Abilities: ENE, SRCH, ES, SEAL, SOA
Member of the Pundit Caste
"Which side are we on? We're on the side of the demons, Chief. We're evil men in the gardens of paradise, sent by the forces of death to spread devastation and destruction wherever we go. I'm surprised you didn't know that." -- Col. Saul Tigh, BSG2003
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GiovanniBlasini
07/25/14 05:10 AM
75.85.176.204
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Can't sleep, clowns will eat me. Had insane idea: handheld weapons. Mount medium laser in head, mount RL-10s in legs, carry 4.5 ton gun pod(s). IIRC, under current Tac Ops errata, keeping the gun pod to 10%, which is all it could carry anyway, prevents you from losing ground speed.
Phoenix Hawk PXH-0h
Mass: 45 tons Tech Base: Inner Sphere (Primitive) Chassis Config: Biped Rules Level: Era Specific Era: All Eras (non-canon) Tech Rating/Era Availability: D/X-X-F-A Production Year: 3146 Cost: 3,556,415 C-Bills Battle Value: 898
Chassis: Orguss WSP Prototype Primitive Structure Power Plant: GM 270 Primitive Fusion Engine Walking Speed: 54.0 km/h Maximum Speed: 86.4 km/h Jump Jets: Rawlings 45 Jump Capacity: 150 meters Armor: Durrallex Simple Light Primitive Armament: 1 Medium Laser 4 Rocket Launcher 10s Manufacturer: Niops New Project Workshops Primary Factory: Niops VII Communications System: Neil 6000 Targeting and Tracking System: Octagon Tartrac System C
Additional: Handheld Weapon Options:
Autocannon Package: Light AC/2 -- 4.0 tons Ammo (LAC/2): 22 -- 0.5 ton
Rifle Package: Light Rifle -- 3.0 tons Ammo (Lt. Rifle): 18 -- 1.0 ton Armor (5 pts primitive or 8 pts standard) -- 0.5 ton
SRM Package: 2 SRM-4s -- 4.0 tons Ammo (SRM): 12 -- 0.5 ton
LRM Package: 2 LRM-5s -- 4.0 tons Ammo (LRM): 12 -- 0.5 ton
We Don't Like Infantry Package: 3 Machine Guns -- 1.5 tons 3 Light Machine Guns -- 1.5 tons Ammo (MG): 50 -- 0.25 ton Ammo (LMG): 50 -- 0.25 ton Armor (11 primitive or 16 std) -- 1.0 ton
Magshot Marvel: 5 Magshots -- 2.5 tons Ammo (Magshot): 50 -- 1.0 ton Armor (11 primitive or 16 std) -- 1.0 ton
FIRE!!!!!! 3 Vehicle Flamers -- 1.5 tons Ammo (V. Flamer): 40 -- 2.0 tons Armor (11 primitive or 16 std) -- 1.0 ton
Now is the time on Rockets when we dance! 9 Rocket Launcher 10s -- 4.5 tons
================================================================================ Equipment Type Rating Mass -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Internal Structure: Primitive Structure 75 points 4.50 Engine: Primitive Fusion Engine 270 14.50 Walking MP: 5 Running MP: 8 Jumping MP: 5 Standard Jump Jet Locations: 1 CT, 2 LT, 2 RT 2.50 Heat Sinks: Single Heat Sink 10 0.00 Gyro: Standard 3.00 Cockpit: Primitive 5.00 Actuators: L: SH+UA+LA+H R: SH+UA+LA+H Armor: Primitive AV - 134 12.50
Internal Armor Structure Factor Head 3 8 Center Torso 14 23 Center Torso (rear) 5 L/R Torso 11 18 L/R Torso (rear) 4 L/R Arm 7 10 L/R Leg 11 17
================================================================================ Equipment Location Heat Critical Mass -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Medium Laser HD 3 1 1.00 2 Rocket Launcher 10s RL 6 2 1.00 2 Rocket Launcher 10s LL 6 2 1.00 Free Critical Slots: 37
BattleForce Statistics MV S (+0) M (+2) L (+4) E (+6) Wt. Ov Armor: 4 Points: 9 5j 1 1 1 0 2 0 Structure: 4 Special Abilities: SRCH, ES, SEAL, SOA
Member of the Pundit Caste
"Which side are we on? We're on the side of the demons, Chief. We're evil men in the gardens of paradise, sent by the forces of death to spread devastation and destruction wherever we go. I'm surprised you didn't know that." -- Col. Saul Tigh, BSG2003
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ghostrider
07/26/14 02:47 AM
24.30.141.170
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Considering the wolverine mech had an ac 5 as a hand held cannon, your option if very valid. It does make me wonder if they put a limit on what can be held in the hand, why could that not transfer to the arm? Only thing I can think of at the moment would be the strength of the actuator.
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GiovanniBlasini
07/26/14 05:07 PM
172.56.30.253
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The unseen Wolverine, BattleMaster, Griffin, Stinger and Phoenix Hawk aren't limited like the handheld weapon rules, 'cause their "handheld" weapons are paid for out of total mass, not carried like external cargo, like I did on the PXH-0h.
Member of the Pundit Caste
"Which side are we on? We're on the side of the demons, Chief. We're evil men in the gardens of paradise, sent by the forces of death to spread devastation and destruction wherever we go. I'm surprised you didn't know that." -- Col. Saul Tigh, BSG2003
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ghostrider
07/26/14 09:29 PM
24.30.141.170
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must be new rule changes. Have not seen that. So if I get this right, they are allowed to carry more weight then normal if they have external cargo, like a hand held weapon that isn't part of the mech?
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GiovanniBlasini
07/26/14 10:24 PM
172.56.16.86
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Yep. Handheld weapon rules are currently published in Tactical Operations, though I seem to recall them in the old Maximum Tech book from FASA.
Basically you need both hands, can carry up to 10% of your 'Mech's mass, need to add enough single heat sinks for any energy weapons in said handheld, and cannot use any arm- or torso-mounted weapons while carrying it. So while it gives you something extra, it has its drawbacks.
Member of the Pundit Caste
"Which side are we on? We're on the side of the demons, Chief. We're evil men in the gardens of paradise, sent by the forces of death to spread devastation and destruction wherever we go. I'm surprised you didn't know that." -- Col. Saul Tigh, BSG2003
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