Akirapryde2006
09/10/15 09:54 AM
71.100.132.249
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Okay so I have seen a of references of time travel from the past to the future. I.E. Team Banzai.
I know that this reference was phased out.
I have a pair of sincere questions which I have based on the simple fact that a Jumpship does during the course of a jump occupy the two different points in space at the same time. Misjumps regularly happen, and in the most extreme cases the Jumpship vanishes with out a trace.
So here are my two questions....
1) Has there ever been any reference to any other time travel or traveler(s) in the game books or other resources? I am looking for either forward or backwards in time.
If No, then
2) Has there been any note or reference that time travel is impossible within any book or other resource for the game?
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ghostrider
09/10/15 12:00 PM
76.89.121.69
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In the battle tech universe, I can not remember any time traveling. I don't have much after the clan invasion so your reference to team Banzai is not one I know of.
The book Far Country deals with 2 different time periods where a misjump happened. Both dealt with units from the combine, but their descendants meet up with I believe a dest team at the current time that misjumps to the same planet. That story as well as some of the fluff would indicate you can jump further then 30 light years, but not move in time.
Now I have not seen where they say it isn't possible either, but then that would be something they would want to avoid, as there have been issues with new things voiding old rules.
Plus time traveling seems to be the death cry of story lines. Why jump back to save a duke or general, when you could assassinate Amaris?
Then it seems you can not avoid even more time jumps.
For arguments sake, you can go out and say a vision might have a basis in the persons mind of slipping time barriers, ie precognition.
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Drasnighta
09/10/15 12:35 PM
198.53.98.65
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1) Has there ever been any reference to any other time travel or traveler(s) in the game books or other resources? I am looking for either forward or backwards in time.
Yep. There was a whole MechWarrior Scenario/Story book on it. "Living Legends".
Deals with the Star League "Manassas", which misjumped during the Exodus.
Ends up Re-Materialising right in the middle of a Clan Invasion.
You work for ComStar.
Mayhem Happens.
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Living_Legends
So technically, they're Time Travellers from the Past, jumping Forward...
... But, y'know, Technology is so Mashed up at points that they might as well be Futuristic compared to where everyone else was...
CEO Heretic BattleMechs.
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Frabby
09/10/15 12:54 PM
87.164.135.71
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The Manassas incident wasn't so much time travel as it was a ship and crew stranded in suspended animation in hyperspace for almost 300 years before rematerializing.
In general terms, ships have been known to have delayed rematerialisation during (mis-)jumps for a couple of minutes. 300 years from jumping out until rematerializing (with no noticeable time loss for the ship and crew involved) is a dramatic fringe effect, way out of the ordinary but still possible and explainable. In fact, one source written by Cray iirc mentions that the theory of KF-induced suspended animation is well-known.
The Far Country indicents is another freak coincidence, two misjumps 546 years apart from Salford end up in the Kaetetoa system. Although the implication is that these misjumps carried both vessels across extreme distances, they did re-materialize at Kaetetoa some 546 years apart and there is no indication whatsoever that either jump was anything but instantaneous.
The one arguable time travel issue where effect precedes cause is an alleged jump phenomenon by which a jump signature possibly forms a couple of seconds before the vessel actually initiates its jump. I'm not entirely sure if this ever was (or still is) canonical, and personally try to ignore it do death.
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ghostrider
09/10/15 04:59 PM
76.89.121.69
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I know one of the novels dealt with the ir signatures of incoming jumpships. They suggested the ir length was determined by ship size, weight, and distance it was jumping, so if that is any thing conical, that would be the closest they did with 'time travel' on any regular basis. I want to say the main one I can think if is during the invasion of Tharkad during the civil war.
I have not heard of the Mansassas incident, but it would be interesting to see it. Once I get done posting this, I will check out the link.
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Cray
09/10/15 07:59 PM
50.88.145.42
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Quote:
Akirapryde2006 writes:
1) Has there ever been any reference to any other time travel or traveler(s) in the game books or other resources? I am looking for either forward or backwards in time.
Yes. Strategic Operations confirmed that backwards time travel was not possible, and "forwards time travel" happened as Frabby explained. The first Interstellar Players Guide (basically, a book of tabloid rumors in BT that players can have fun with) also mentioned time travel, but Strat Ops had a comment in its chapter on JumpShip operations to specifically debunk it.
Quote:
2) Has there been any note or reference that time travel is impossible within any book or other resource for the game?
Strategic Operations, p. 134. The in-character author in StratOps spends the first paragraph debunking Interstellar Players Guide (1st), which was in turn written in-character by a conspiracy theorist named Starling.
"Time. I just saw a fascinating load of tripe a week ago on
Channel 98 from that conspiracy nut, Starling, something about
JumpShips as time machines because of a misunderstanding
about the “time-independence” of hyperspace equations. The
equations’ “independence” from time is a mathematical note
meaning that time in “real space” is not a factor in the jump fi eld
equations. The jump will happen at its own pace generally determined
by constants that are factored out of the equations. The
independence does not mean you can relocate the ship wherever—
whenever—you want in real space-time. Time only goes forward
from any perspective.
Now, there is some disconnect between hyperspace and real
space when it comes to time. The shipboard perception of time
spent “jumping” is actually mostly in real space as the drive’s fi eld
is forming, which can really distort human perceptions. The actual
shipboard time spent in hyperspace is too short for shipboard
humans to notice, though minutes may pass for external, real
space observers. This does lead to the experimentally confi rmed
possibility that a fl awed jump may seem to leave a ship “stuck”
in hyperspace. It’s an elaborate form of suspended animation,
not time travel in the usual sense. And I don’t know if it’s actually
possible with a full K-F drive, it’s just something that’s been done
in labs with subatomic particles and HPG transmissions"
The StratOps in-character author behind that was unaware of the Manassas incident in the Living Legends book, but the statements are meant to validate the Manassas jump while reinforcing the impossibility of backwards time travel.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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Akirapryde2006
09/14/15 09:22 PM
50.88.83.241
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Hey guys, thanks for all the replies.
This gives me a much clearer understanding of Time Travel in the game.
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ghostrider
09/15/15 12:42 AM
76.89.121.69
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As with most games, it is up to the players to decide what works and what doesn't.
The only thing this does is try to keep it as close to cannon as you can.
I don't agree with some of the alternative ideas that are out there, and I know at least one person I have had some clashes with, but in the end, it is players that make or break the game, not the someone outside the group.
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Akirapryde2006
09/15/15 12:42 PM
71.100.132.249
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Agreed ghostrider.
Knowing the cannon of the game will help me make my mind up on a number of issues. One thing I have noticed about any game. Something (anything) is against the rules till the writers of the game decide that its no longer against the rules.
I remember having it out with a player at a GenCon regarding our home created shape charged SRM's. The concept of the missile's warhead would do one point on the outside of the armor and one point on the internal structure of the target, thus forcing a possible critical role. The debate was nasty and left me and two of our players thinking the guy was a complete (yeah you get it). However we supported our Shape Charged SRM's with real life examples. The very next year, Unbound came out and to our surprise Tandem-Charge SRM. It was basically the same missile our Narrator had come up with.
It was then we as a group decided that if it can exist in real life, why not in our game. It opened the doors to a whole other world of possibilities.
(I would like to apologize for a word that was offensive in this post. I accept my mistake and promise it will not happen again)
Edited by Akirapryde2006 (09/15/15 08:13 PM)
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Cray
09/15/15 06:34 PM
72.189.109.30
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Quote:
ghostrider writes:
As with most games, it is up to the players to decide what works and what doesn't.
Oh, yep, it's all on the players. I mean, I'm a writer and continuity reviewer for new products, but in my home game a group of Clanners (other than the Wolf Dragoons) fled to the Inner Sphere in 3025, tipping it off, and then reshaped the course of the 4th Succession War, saw the War of 3039 successfully defeat the Combine (and thus be the 5th Succession War), and saw an early defeat of the Clans c3052 before ComStar was overthrown in the mid-3050s by a resurgent Terra. Continuity? It was less important than fun. 
I've often been tempted to run a short campaign where backwards time travel is possible. A lance of 3067-ish 'Mechs pop into New Avalon orbit in 3010, and history is forever altered.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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ghostrider
09/15/15 07:34 PM
76.89.121.69
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For a short while, the lance would really have to watch everything they do. No advance armor or endosteel.
Crits would be horrific as nothing could be replaced.
And might as well cry with ever advanced missile or things like cluster ammo or gauss shots, as replacing it will be impossible until you can get someone to make it.
And the worse thing about it. You lose a single heat sink with a double heat sink mech, and you either stay down 2 heat point dissipation or change over to single heat sinks. But once the scientists get the research done on the mechs, yeah. Not much will stop the suns if you stick with them. Even the fedcom alliance may not exist after that.
But why run a time travel scenario? Use the tried and true tactic of finding an advanced starleague facility that has all of that tech. That would give you full control of what they find, verses using specific units. Just base the campaign in 3010 with that. There is no reason why the star league could not have something close to the clan tech before it fell.
And the best thing is, they would use the designs you want them to have.
Evil grin.
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Akirapryde2006
09/15/15 08:27 PM
71.100.132.249
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Quote:
ghostrider writes:
But why run a time travel scenario? Use the tried and true tactic of finding an advanced starleague facility that has all of that tech. That would give you full control of what they find, verses using specific units. Just base the campaign in 3010 with that. There is no reason why the star league could not have something close to the clan tech before it fell.
And the best thing is, they would use the designs you want them to have.
Evil grin.
Yes you are right, but that story arc has been done time and time again. Its a little boring for me.
I just finished a great book, 1632 Novel. Its about a group of people that are thrown back in time. The novel is a great source of ideas and concepts that I really want to try.
I wont lie, I am very worried about how this would be taken cause I know many die hards would see this idea/concept and balk at it. If you read my posts in the RPG section, this is the core of what I am building on for my next RPG.
However instead of the characters going back in time along the Canon universe, I want to take Characters from the cannon Dark Ages time back in time to a point where a alternate universe already exists. Let them get a look in to the looking glass so to speak. With all that they know about how history already played out and at a point right before the Fed-Com Civil War.
They will know everything of what happened in the "Prime" Universe. And now they can have a chance to stop the Jihad (oh please! lol) They could even prevent the Dark Ages from every coming and keep the Star League alive. The possibilities are endless at this point. But to throw them a bone, near the middle, they will be given a remarkable opportunity. They can go back in time once more (under their own ability) and stop this "Alternate" Reality from being created and allow the "Prime" Reality to exist once more.
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ghostrider
09/16/15 12:56 AM
76.89.121.69
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Yeah, I had thought about one issue with the finding the items. Lack of information on what will happen in the future. You can't stop something if you don't know it's coming, though it is possible to have them stumble over some clues.
The alternative prime is kind of used alot as well, but it still works.
Now there is an issue with a few things changing time lines. This depends on how you view time.
Do you believe certain things happen(ed) no matter who did it?
Such as if Hitler was killed before rising to power, would someone else have done so?
Or do you believe that only a certain person is destined to set off the events?
Preventing the Jihad might be a simple as killing Thomas Marik in the bomb blast destroying the FWL thereby preventing WOB from finding a safe haven there during the split?
Or go back even further, and prevent comstar from interdicting the fedcom during the 4th succession war. This would have changed the entire innersphere borders even more.
Or assassinate Katherine Steiner-Davion before she took the Lyran part of the Fedcom?
Granted you are free to do alot, but if you try to keep canon lines going, surprisingly, you are kind of limited. If you move away from it, then the possibilities are endless.
I just ask if you post things here, you let us know it is not canon to begin with.
Might be that I'm just an ****.
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Frabby
09/16/15 01:58 AM
87.164.149.123
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The mildly funny part about traveling backwards in time is that you'd invariably end up somewhere in mid-space, because every object in the universe is moving. There is no reference point that I'm aware of to adjust for the movement of earth, of our whole star system, of the entire galaxy.
You would need some sort of anchor point in the past, or get lost. And in BattleTech, jump points aren't it as 99.999999999% of space is a viable jump (emergence) point.
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ghostrider
09/16/15 11:11 AM
76.89.121.69
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Actually, that might give you the logical reason for a misjump. A nova could have pushed the target systems point out of whack for a while.
Or even disrupted the area between jumps.
Then you could use the same thing as the reason you jumped into the past. Ie. another systems point was at that location at the time of the jump.
Most forget the galaxy is spinning. How far does the entire solar system move in 100 years? It may open up a pirate point that much further outside a system, or done right, a cluster might move another point into position. So you are in a different system, but in the correct spot.
The idea of not updated references to jump points might be why it takes so long. And the worse thing about it is, not every system moves at the same speed. So the jump points in star league may not all be valid in 3160. Some systems should have moved beyond the 30 lightyear mark, while others should have come within that limit, that were not like that during the star league. I can understand alot being the same as you are using your current position to figure out where you need to go. So coordinates would be from that point, not some stationary point in space.
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