Improved Jump Jet

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His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey
04/06/16 03:13 PM
70.122.160.150

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I have looked at the Improved Jump Jets and I am just totally underwhelmed by them. About the only thing that I think that would do well with them are assault mechs that are really slow.

At twice the weight of standard jump jets you have a mech that just does not have any real speed as you would be devoting a good percent of its total mass just to the jump jets.

The only mechs that I can see that could really benefit from this technology are mechs that are slow and can really use the increased maneuverability like the Urban Mech or assault mechs like the atlas that are ultra slow.

As I see it you would be better off instead of putting that weight into the Improved Jump Jet you can get a bigger engine with standard jump jets or giving the mech more weapons or armor.
Why argue if the glass is half full or half empty, when you know someone is going to knock it over and spill it anyways.

I was a Major *pain* before
But I got a promotion.
I am now a General *pain*
Yay for promotions!!!
Akalabeth
04/06/16 03:34 PM
64.251.81.66

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Well they do half heat so you can put more into weapons by putting less into heat sinks.
Also for most mechs they will offset or improve the jump penalty. Usually a 4/6/4 mech that jumps will have a +3 to fire but only +2 to be shot. Whereas a 3/5/5 would be +3 to fire and +3 to be hit.

A 5/8/8 mech would have a +4 to be hit but only a +3 to fire.

So yeah, it's a lot of weight but it can put the firing-curve back in your favour. This isn't even factoring things like woods or partial.
KamikazeJohnson
04/06/16 04:46 PM
207.161.146.219

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Quote:
Akalabeth writes:

Well they do half heat so you can put more into weapons by putting less into heat sinks.
Also for most mechs they will offset or improve the jump penalty. Usually a 4/6/4 mech that jumps will have a +3 to fire but only +2 to be shot. Whereas a 3/5/5 would be +3 to fire and +3 to be hit.

A 5/8/8 mech would have a +4 to be hit but only a +3 to fire.

So yeah, it's a lot of weight but it can put the firing-curve back in your favour. This isn't even factoring things like woods or partial.



I have an Assassin mod with IJJ...7/11/11, so it jumps with +5 to be hit.

I wouldn't put IJJ or every 'Mech, but then can be very useful on a design build around them.

And yes, a 100-tonner 3/5/5 is scary.
Peace is that glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.
--Thomas Jefferson
CrayModerator
04/06/16 05:56 PM
72.189.109.30

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Donkey, I shared most of your opinions about improved jump jets until they were used on me.

For those without the latest rules: IJJs are twice as heavy, but generate half the heat, and max out at your running MPs rather than walking.

So, imagine a 55-ton, 5/8 'Mech or a 6/9, 50-ton 'Mech. Their IJJs will be a modest 1 ton each. With XL engines, their armor and weapons payload will be similar to a standard fusion engine 3025 'Mech even after you max their movement out to 5/8/8 or 6/9/9.

What one of my unmentionable players hit upon was to combine tons of Streak 2s with (maybe) a PPC and those high jumping values. Those little pogo bastards have the range to jump halfway across a map, racking up movement to-hit modifiers rarely seen outside of Spiders, and they can take a few BFG hits because they're well-armored medium 'Mechs. They spam the crap out of targets with Streaks and have fantastic heat control because they generate no more than 4-5 jumping heat and, of course, are using Streaks.

They were surprisingly good units for killing super-heavy 'Mechs, which ended up dying of head hits long before their armor was eliminated. They were extremely good tank killers, too, and their crit finding spam was annoying on any other unit type.

There are a lot of unit designs where I wouldn't bother with IJJs. Often I don't have the tonnage to dump on them and 3-4 jumping is fine for clearing most terrain obstacles. But they can work great on medium units.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer

Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey
04/06/16 06:50 PM
70.122.160.150

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Cray I do see the advantage but I don't see that its worth the cost in weight. Your giving up a lot usable weight for a small advantage.

One thing that I can say is I dont have a problem with the IJJs, this technology was not over powering the game like a lot of the other new technology did.
Why argue if the glass is half full or half empty, when you know someone is going to knock it over and spill it anyways.

I was a Major *pain* before
But I got a promotion.
I am now a General *pain*
Yay for promotions!!!
Retry
04/06/16 07:19 PM
68.103.19.152

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The evil begins when you combine the IJJs with a Partial Wing. It's feasible to get a 4/6/7 movement out of a 85 ton Assault Mech. Can't carry a whole lot (think I got two LPLs and a heavy electronics package or three LPLs on one), but they're a real pain to kill and can easily maneuver anywhere for any shot.
Karagin
04/06/16 08:34 PM
61.40.222.5

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They seem popular with the folks who design the canon mechs as they show up a lot in the TROs from 3085 onward.
Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
KamikazeJohnson
04/06/16 09:07 PM
24.114.23.214

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Quote:
Cray writes:

Donkey, I shared most of your opinions about improved jump jets until they were used on me.

For those without the latest rules: IJJs are twice as heavy, but generate half the heat, and max out at your running MPs rather than walking.

So, imagine a 55-ton, 5/8 'Mech or a 6/9, 50-ton 'Mech. Their IJJs will be a modest 1 ton each. With XL engines, their armor and weapons payload will be similar to a standard fusion engine 3025 'Mech even after you max their movement out to 5/8/8 or 6/9/9.

What one of my unmentionable players hit upon was to combine tons of Streak 2s with (maybe) a PPC and those high jumping values. Those little pogo bastards have the range to jump halfway across a map, racking up movement to-hit modifiers rarely seen outside of Spiders, and they can take a few BFG hits because they're well-armored medium 'Mechs. They spam the crap out of targets with Streaks and have fantastic heat control because they generate no more than 4-5 jumping heat and, of course, are using Streaks.

They were surprisingly good units for killing super-heavy 'Mechs, which ended up dying of head hits long before their armor was eliminated. They were extremely good tank killers, too, and their crit finding spam was annoying on any other unit type.

There are a lot of unit designs where I wouldn't bother with IJJs. Often I don't have the tonnage to dump on them and 3-4 jumping is fine for clearing most terrain obstacles. But they can work great on medium units.



Another advantage of the long Jump range...you rarely have reason to use any other movement...and if you happen to overheat (say, by hitting with more Streaks than anticipated) you can still escape the following turn with your full movement rate.
Peace is that glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.
--Thomas Jefferson
CarcerKango
04/14/16 09:24 AM
64.251.51.247

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I also like the Whammie variant with the IJJ's, very scary. The -10T if I'm not mistaken. 5/8/7 while carrying dual PPC's and stuff is scary.
TigerShark
04/14/16 06:50 PM
12.130.166.32

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This makes the Septicemia B-Z my favorite unit for spotting in a Nove CEWS network. They actually generate better TH mods than the Cephalus, depending on the terrain. And they can always get out of a tight corner if needed. Those 7 IJJs also help you be at exactly the ideal range to back up your Trey.
Kharim
04/23/16 07:15 AM
89.65.53.119

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Do You know of Eyleuka? 55 tonner that jumps 7 hexes, has stealth armor and a TAG I have used the 35a variant in dozens of matches. Never lost that mech.
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