ninjrk
08/08/17 12:51 PM
68.187.218.119
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It's a weird question but one that I'm wracking my brain trying to remember. If a mech is covered with armored plates how did they attach to the frame? Artwork shows panel lines of some kind and presumably there would be access panels of some kind. The fluff that I can remember/came across skimming my books discusses welding for repairs but nothing about initial construction. Was this ever covered?
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Cray
08/08/17 05:27 PM
72.189.109.30
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The Tech Manual goes into great detail about the composition of the armor, mounting techniques, and even provides artwork showing the mounting brackets. Its chapter, "Mech Tech Primer," goes on to address all the key guts of 'Mechs: gyros, myomers, heat sinks, fusion engines, etc. Most of it appeared in prior works and was rigorously scrubbed for adherence to canon, but Tech Manual expanded the explanations and provided art for most of that.
Specific to armor mounting:
'Mechs have internal structure frames, their so-called bones, to which myomers are attached. The armor mounts over this internal structure and myomers. To provide some space between the frame and armor for the myomers, brackets are used. This picture is taken from Tech Manual and shows (on the upper arm bone) two example brackets:
Internal structure, no armor, no myomers
This picture shows the myomer bundles on the same arm:
Internal structure with myomers
Same picture, with color
This picture shows the same arm with armor mounted finally:
With armor
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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ninjrk
08/08/17 05:36 PM
68.187.218.119
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So, using that as example it looks like the outer shell is bolted into place using flush bolts or socket-head screws? Makes sense if its armor. Thanks, I'd seen the last drawing with the cross section but not the key one with the screws/bolts.
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Cray
08/08/17 06:37 PM
72.189.109.30
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Quote:
So, using that as example it looks like the outer shell is bolted into place using flush bolts or socket-head screws? Makes sense if its armor.
Those certainly are one set of answers to the attachment method, but there could be plenty of others. After all, what works well for one brand of armor on one model of 'Mech won't necessarily apply to another 'Mech made in another century by another company.
For (real world) example, I install* armored sapphire windows that endure supersonic flight loads on two programs. The sapphire panes themselves have no direct bolts or screws holding them in place. Mostly, the panes slide into grooves in metal frames, which do the grunt work of pane retention. The panes are then are glued and caulked in place so they don't rattle in the metal grooves. One program does close out the window assembly with external flush screws in a retainer bar, but the screws don't directly touch sapphire, while the other program uses big, protruding screws on a retainer bar accessible only from inside the pod. In the latter case, you'd never see screws from the outside.
*Okay, I oversee the installation of sapphire windows and debug the material problems of doing so. If I was actually installing them, we'd never make any hardware that met spec. 
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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ninjrk
08/08/17 07:33 PM
68.187.218.119
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Fair enough, and that is cool! My assumption about mech armor has generally been that since it's ablative, it would make sense that the armor can be pulled off and replaced with some degree of ease. Repaired by overlaying new skin or cutting out damaged sections and welding in a plug (per repair rules) but the best case would be to swap it out. Unlike a modern tank a mech is expected to just get whalloped all over in a given fight. Dunno if it would be the best way but I figure if semi-literate techs can maintain them in 3025, they can't be overly complicated.
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Cray
08/09/17 05:25 PM
72.189.109.30
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Quote:
Fair enough, and that is cool! My assumption about mech armor has generally been that since it's ablative, it would make sense that the armor can be pulled off and replaced with some degree of ease. Repaired by overlaying new skin or cutting out damaged sections and welding in a plug (per repair rules) but the best case would be to swap it out. Unlike a modern tank a mech is expected to just get whalloped all over in a given fight. Dunno if it would be the best way but I figure if semi-literate techs can maintain them in 3025, they can't be overly complicated.
If you have a chance to find it in a garage sale or used book the store, the old Mechwarrior 1st edition went into some detail about armor repair techniques ranging from welding to chemical softening, and also how the panels were installed in interlocking sections. However, I can't even find any good artwork of that with Google.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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ghostrider
08/10/17 02:36 AM
66.74.61.223
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The 3026 vehicle tro had some small fluff about the pegasus having hexagonal plates that were easy to replace.
No pics of the plates, but is something on this line.
I always thought they just welded patches to the armor when damage.
It would figure there had to be something other then the plates near it to hold it in place, as a failed repair roll on structure permanently loses the ability to hold some armor.
Though this, along with a few other things, should have some replacement parts that should allow fixing the issue. Should be expensive, but I haven't seen anything in the new books as I stopped getting the rule books are Master Rules.
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Rotwang
08/10/17 12:44 PM
94.226.248.136
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Battletech works pretty much in the way cars, planes and armoured vehicles used to be made. You had a chassis onto which you bolted body panels or armour plate.
Until not that long ago, if you had the money, you could buy a car chassis and have somebody make custom panels to whatever was your taste.
If you carry this over to Battlemechs, it explains why some mechs look different from one illustration to the next. They are the same chassis, but somebody likes a certain look/design more and forged the armour into a certain shape.
Although it seems you have some liberty as how to use armour and install it, you still need to make sure it's air-tight because a mech needs to be able to survive both high and negative pressure without leaking. So whatever method you use the panels themselves must have some kind of interlocking sealing capability. Because you can have patchwork armour this means that all armour is made according to the same specifications from Terra all the way to the Clans.
A bit like one type of ammo fits all guns, be they described as 20mm or 240mm ... Luckily there seems to be far less disparity in missile ammo.
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csadn
08/24/17 02:59 AM
50.53.22.4
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Really Obscure Fluff: In _The Fox's Teeth_, there is mention of armor being attached with adhesive spray; said adhesive also keeps sand out of myomer, which sets up an option for McKinnon's Raiders to ambush Woomack's Company....
(God, I'm *OLD*.... )
CF
Oregon: The "Outworlds Alliance" of the United States of America
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Cray
08/24/17 07:10 PM
67.8.226.169
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Quote:
Really Obscure Fluff: In _The Fox's Teeth_, there is mention of armor being attached with adhesive spray; said adhesive also keeps sand out of myomer, which sets up an option for McKinnon's Raiders to ambush Woomack's Company....
Per p. 44 Fox's Teeth, the spray was a sealant, not an adhesive.
"Austin was working on a piece of armor plate, preparing to attach it as a patch to his 'Mech. He sprayed it with a sealant. Trying not to get any of the sealant on his fingers, he accidentally dropped the armor plate on the sand. It spooked us a little bit. I idly watched him pick it up, and noticed there was no sand on it. Suddenly, I saw how we could hide by burying our 'Mechs! After some experimentation, I found that the sealant definitely kept sand from getting in our actuators."
Skimming that book was a blast from the past, very classic 3025 BattleTech stuff in there.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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ghostrider
08/25/17 04:07 AM
66.74.61.223
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There were a few things they did in that adventure pack that never made it into the rules, such as crawling mechs out of a combat zone.
But in it's own sense, the example of the sealant makes it sound like a single point of armor was light enough to carry with your fingers, verses needing some machinery to do so.
That plate would be 125 pounds for a single point. 2,000 pounds divided by 16 points per ton of normal armor.
And the second take away from this. How could the sections of a mech be sealed if sand can get into the myomers?
Underwater and void rules kind of suggests that all sections are sealed or useless in those environments.
But then it would make the game a bit more difficult if you had to use weight to seal mechs like vehicles when used in those type of environments.
Consistency was never good with the fiction and rules. Even those books suggested fusion engines exploded.
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ninjrk
08/25/17 07:34 PM
68.187.218.119
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That seems to make sense, at least within the universe. So plates are sealed underneath to the frame and each other before bolting them into place. I also like that explanation for why they look different in different artwork; decades or longer of repairs and refits lead to morphologic drift based on the skill of the various techs.
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ghostrider
08/25/17 09:15 PM
66.74.61.223
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Since we are discussing armor here, I have a question.
If you found a mech from the star league era, would the 3025 armor even work with it? Supposedly, the items used on a mech were downgraded as the knowledge to make them degraded.
And I am not talking normal armor on a mech with ferrous fiber. I am talking the normal armored units being repaired in the 3025 era.
Some areas would have to be custom made to fit some mechs from the league era. But this is kind of besides the point.
And a hole in the novels.
Someone finds a league era storage facility, and just gets into a mech. Starts it up, and uses it in a fight.
Now wouldn't the fluids in the mech have dried out as well as any rubber seals dry rotted to the point of falling apart?
Like hydraulic seals or the strips around the cockpit doors?
It isn't like most have any repair parts when they find it, and it is very unlikely that 300 years of sitting has any of the disposable parts being any good to do the repairs needed.
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csadn
08/26/17 03:54 AM
50.53.22.4
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Quote:
Per p. 44 Fox's Teeth, the spray was a sealant, not an adhesive.
Yeah -- not sure why I typed "adhesive" when I meant "sealant". (Talking of "old"....)
On the subject of "classic _BT_": Looking at the fault on Nomura's _Griffin_, that thing's as much a hazard to friend as foe.... Still, who here is old enough to remember having to deal with "faulty" 'Mechs?
CF
Oregon: The "Outworlds Alliance" of the United States of America
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Cray
08/26/17 02:37 PM
67.8.226.169
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Quote:
Since we are discussing armor here, I have a question.
If you found a mech from the star league era, would the 3025 armor even work with it? Supposedly, the items used on a mech were downgraded as the knowledge to make them degraded.
And I am not talking normal armor on a mech with ferrous fiber. I am talking the normal armored units be7ing repaired in the 3025 era.
As far as the repair rules are considered, standard armor is standard armor; ferro-fibrous is ferro-ferro fibrous, and so on.
So if you have a Star League-era 'Mech with standard armor, then 3025 standard armor will work with it. Anything indicated in fluff is secondary to the rules.
Quote:
Someone finds a league era storage facility, and just gets into a mech. Starts it up, and uses it in a fight.
Now wouldn't the fluids in the mech have dried out as well as any rubber seals dry rotted to the point of falling apart?
Like hydraulic seals or the strips around the cockpit doors?
It isn't like most have any repair parts when they find it, and it is very unlikely that 300 years of sitting has any of the disposable parts being any good to do the repairs needed.
Yep, you're on to something. However, "lostech caches" are such a staple of BattleTech that everyone always sort of skims over the issues of 300 years of storage.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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Cray
08/26/17 02:39 PM
67.8.226.169
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Quote:
On the subject of "classic _BT_": Looking at the fault on Nomura's _Griffin_, that thing's as much a hazard to friend as foe.... Still, who here is old enough to remember having to deal with "faulty" 'Mechs?
Heck, I just used that in a 3025-era merc campaign last year. The players had some real junkers for a while, especially after 3 of them showed up drunk to a game and were just about annihilated in an easy-win battle.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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csadn
08/26/17 11:30 PM
50.53.22.4
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Quote:
Heck, I just used that in a 3025-era merc campaign last year. The players had some real junkers for a while, especially after 3 of them showed up drunk to a game and were just about annihilated in an easy-win battle.
I recall how many Heavy 'Mechs had one heavy weapon disabled, and how this almost made them viable fighting machines instead of PoSs which overheated if one looked at them.... >:)
CF
Oregon: The "Outworlds Alliance" of the United States of America
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