Karagin
08/14/02 12:22 PM
63.173.170.49
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Has anyone here used these in a battle before? If so how did they do?
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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MadWolf
08/14/02 12:28 PM
134.53.144.30
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I did not know there were rules for that even. 
Nothing is Impossible, It is only Improbable.
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Karagin
08/14/02 12:32 PM
63.173.170.49
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The rules are in Max Tech...
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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MadWolf
08/14/02 12:41 PM
134.53.144.30
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musta decided to overlook that bit 
Nothing is Impossible, It is only Improbable.
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Cheapbuzz
08/14/02 09:52 PM
131.36.116.42
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I once used an armless mech, it kicked ass. Its a funny thing to see a player hit with a gauss rifle and then roll an arm for a location.
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Acolyte
08/15/02 05:38 AM
142.179.27.248
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Shouldn't the arm hit be transfered to the torso? If so, armless 'Mechs would suck.
Light a fire for a man, and you keep him warm for one night,
Light a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
Acolyte
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Karagin
08/15/02 05:42 AM
63.173.170.181
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IIRC the rules in Max Tech say if the arm is hit then it's a miss since the arm is not there. I will check the book out this evening to be sure but I believe that is how it works. No transfer of damage since the arm was never there to start with.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Acolyte
08/15/02 05:49 AM
142.179.27.248
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THAT is DUMB! If my Marader losses both it's arms, it becomes an armless 'Mech. Its torso should be hit, or a hit location chart should be made for armless 'Mechs. Arms count for 10 out of the 36 possible rolls (on the Front/Back chart). I'm sorry, but if I've made a succesful to-hit roll I should not miss almost a third of the time.
Not ragging on you BTW, just the rules (which I don't think you wrote). 
Light a fire for a man, and you keep him warm for one night,
Light a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
Acolyte
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Karagin
08/15/02 05:52 AM
63.173.170.181
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You are missing the point, the mech is BUILT without the arms then there are NO arms to hit. So the hit would not count, since there is nothing there to hit.
This isn't the same thing as your example shows of damage taking the arms off. Then in that case yes the damage transfers.
The case here is there are no arms to start with thus there is nothing to hit since they are not there.
Do you follow the idea now?
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Acolyte
08/15/02 05:59 AM
142.179.27.248
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But if I made a successful to-hit roll, I should hit! You should not miss a third of the time. Re-rolling the location, maybe, but not an outright miss. If the 'Mech is intrisically harder to hit, then a penalty should be imposed on the to-hit roll, not in the location charts.
I also don't see the difference between a 'Mech being built without arms and a 'Mech that losses one. They both are missing the arm.
Light a fire for a man, and you keep him warm for one night,
Light a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
Acolyte
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Karagin
08/15/02 06:09 AM
63.173.170.181
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The difference is that by the rules the one that lost the arm or arms do to combat has to follow the damage transfer rules.
And the mech that is built with no arms to start with never had them so what damage can transfer if they were never there?
I don't have Max Tech in front of me right this second, but I do know that some folks have the hits that would hit the arms re-rolled as you suggested and other go with it's a miss sorry about that better luck next time.
The biggest draw back to a mech with no arms is if it falls down it almost won't get back up...and I do believe that the armless mech can not engage in most physical attacks since it lacks the arms needed for them.
As for missing a third of the time again that depends on the direction of the attack...It has been my experience so far that most folks will build light mechs 10-35 tonners with out arms, so they normally don't last that long to be a problem.
And one other thing that should be mentioned, the missing armor that would be on the arms can't be placed any where else on the mech since it would put a loction over it's limit on the smaller mechs and also on some of bigger ones if someone made it with out arms.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Acolyte
08/15/02 06:19 AM
142.179.27.248
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Well, I just did some quick calculations and it comes to 10 out of a possible 36 rolls hits the arm, regardless of direction. Different 10 rolls, but 10 total. I think that re-rolls would be in order, but hey, I didn't write the rules. I just write the rules I use. 
Light a fire for a man, and you keep him warm for one night,
Light a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
Acolyte
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Karagin
08/15/02 06:40 AM
63.173.170.181
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10 out of 36 is not that many...and odds are folks will only use the armless idea on lighter mechs so even with misses per the rules one go hit is going to hurt them.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Greyslayer
08/15/02 07:05 PM
63.12.141.39
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What would be the purpose of having a armless mech then? This is its only real advantage over the all-limbed brother. When a mech loses an arm it might still have the destroyed limb attached (just no integrity like the picture of the Warhammer in McArrons Armoured Cavalry scenario book). Also the unit is built to not have arms ... no shoulder assembly, no structure leading towards the arm socket and so on. It could be a mech with a thinner torso since it does not need to support the arms themselves.
Greyslayer
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Nightward
08/16/02 12:34 AM
210.50.57.145
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Yep. A friend of mine built a 'Mech called the Moa (Named after a massive flightless bird that lived in New Zealand). It had no arms, but it *DID* have a bunch of Large Pulse Lasers in Shoulder Turrets, linked to a Targeting computer with the obligatory EI. Ugh. Being armless, it was really hard to hit; eventually I gave up taking normal shots and started to aim at its legs.
IMO, the disadvantages of not having arms do not weigh out their benefits.
Yea, verily. Let it be known far and wide that Nightward loathes MW: DA. Indeed, it is with the BURNING ANIMUS OF A THOUSAND SUNS that he doth rage against it with.
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Acolyte
08/17/02 12:07 AM
142.179.27.248
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Well, give the thing a penalty to be hit.
Light a fire for a man, and you keep him warm for one night,
Light a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
Acolyte
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