Newtype
11/19/08 06:17 PM
207.160.205.13
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Quote:
Land Air Mechs, have been only in
AeroTech 1st Edition
BattleTech Manual: the Rules of Warfare
BattleTech Compendium
Tactical Handbook
And, They were Never Tournament Legal, not even before the Rules Level System was Instituted.
Then why is it that this website indicates LAMs were tournament legal? Scroll to the bottom of the following webpage:
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Tactical_Handbook
Quote:
Who Believes that Land Air Mechs belong in Tournament Games?
There have been players that want LAMs tournament legal. I just don't know their names. On the old FASA message boards and ClassicBattleTech.com boards there's been about a dozen interested in having LAMs tournament legal and a few didn't want them tournament legal.
Quote:
LAM's, Fire, Artillery, Mines, and a lot of other things in Tactical Operations Manual have no place being in Tournament's These rules are so Complicated...
LAMs are actually less complicated to play with than airships. LAMs don't have complicated movements; airships require their movement points to be halted until they have sufficient MP to move.
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Christopher_Perkins
11/23/08 10:27 AM
76.104.32.151
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Quote:
Oh.... the troll is back.... shame...
BTW the RIing he's so stuck on..... WTF IS THAT?
His networks name for E-Mail or Instant Messaging?
Could be a clue to what region of the world he is from if he is ESL
Christopher Robin Perkins
It is my opinion that all statements should be questioned, digested, disected, tasted, and then either spit out or adopted... RHIP is not a god given shield
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Zandel_Corrin
11/23/08 10:30 PM
123.2.140.247
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oh ok...
I wondered why the game designers were after the most advanced e-mail / spam filter they could get there hands on....
no need to wonder now 
Galaxy Commander
Zandel Corrin
Night Dragon Clan
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Christopher_Perkins
11/25/08 12:15 AM
76.104.32.151
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Quote:
Then why is it that this website indicates LAMs were tournament legal? Scroll to the bottom of the following webpage:
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Tactical_Handbook
Because the Writer of the Article (just a fan, most likley, and not a PTB) was not aware that Mechforce NA controlled the US Tournaments before the fall of FASA and the Advent of FanPro Commandoes and then the Catalyst Agents
To find out what was Tournament Legal Previous to the publication of Tactical Handbook it is necessary to look at the MechForce Manual and/or Issues of Mech Magazine or Mechforce Quarterly.
Quote:
Quote:
Who Believes that Land Air Mechs belong in Tournament Games?
There have been players that want LAMs tournament legal. I just don't know their names. On the old FASA message boards and ClassicBattleTech.com boards there's been about a dozen interested in having LAMs tournament legal and a few didn't want them tournament legal.
Quotes/Links please about tournament Legtality...
also, many people have the misconception that if somethign is illegal for tournament use it is illegal for play...
Quote:
Quote:
LAM's, Fire, Artillery, Mines, and a lot of other things in Tactical Operations Manual have no place being in Tournament's These rules are so Complicated...
LAMs are actually less complicated to play with than airships. LAMs don't have complicated movements; airships require their movement points to be halted until they have sufficient MP to move.
LAMs transform, Airships Do not
LAMs have
Mech Walk
Mech Run
Mech Jump
AirMech Walk
Airmech Run
Airmech Jump
AirMech Flight
Figher Thrust
Fighter OverThrust
(and there is a good case for renaming Airmech Flight to Airmech Flank and adding Airmech Cruise)
Airships have Cruise and Flank
Then there is the question of Physical Attacks...
LAMs are much more complicated
Christopher Robin Perkins
It is my opinion that all statements should be questioned, digested, disected, tasted, and then either spit out or adopted... RHIP is not a god given shield
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Prince_of_Darkness
11/25/08 10:07 AM
205.202.120.139
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Quote:
Quote:
Who Believes that Land Air Mechs belong in Tournament Games?
There have been players that want LAMs tournament legal. I just don't know their names. On the old FASA message boards and ClassicBattleTech.com boards there's been about a dozen interested in having LAMs tournament legal and a few didn't want them tournament legal.
SCREENSHOTS or it DIDN'T HAPPEN.
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Lafeel
11/26/08 12:34 PM
85.220.115.86
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Even those can be faked, PoD..I should know, I've taken classes in Photo manip programs..
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Newtype
11/26/08 12:35 PM
207.160.205.13
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Quote:
BTW the RIing he's so stuck on..... WTF IS THAT?
RIing means remote influencing (psychic influencing from a distance). RIing is basically I can psychically cause events to happen (I've taken the Remote Influencing Course from Gerald O'Donnell's Academy).
Quote:
Because the Writer of the Article (just a fan, most likley, and not a PTB) was not aware that Mechforce NA controlled the US Tournaments before the fall of FASA and the Advent of FanPro Commandoes and then the Catalyst Agents
To find out what was Tournament Legal Previous to the publication of Tactical Handbook it is necessary to look at the MechForce Manual and/or Issues of Mech Magazine or Mechforce Quarterly.
Really? Did Tactical Handbook's rules for LAMs say they were no longer tournament legal.
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Lafeel
11/26/08 12:37 PM
85.220.115.86
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Quote:
Quote:
BTW the RIing he's so stuck on..... WTF IS THAT?
RIing means remote influencing (psychic influencing from a distance). RIing is basically I can psychically cause events to happen (I've taken the Remote Influencing Course from Gerald O'Donnell's Academy).
Quote:
Because the Writer of the Article (just a fan, most likley, and not a PTB) was not aware that Mechforce NA controlled the US Tournaments before the fall of FASA and the Advent of FanPro Commandoes and then the Catalyst Agents
To find out what was Tournament Legal Previous to the publication of Tactical Handbook it is necessary to look at the MechForce Manual and/or Issues of Mech Magazine or Mechforce Quarterly.
Really? Did Tactical Handbook's rules for LAMs say they were no longer tournament legal.
Ok..*backs away, now sure that whoever this Chip is, he's clearly insane*
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Newtype
11/26/08 12:39 PM
207.160.205.13
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Yes, my mind is inside sane people's minds remotely influencing them.
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Lafeel
11/26/08 12:43 PM
85.220.115.86
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Quote:
Yes, my mind is inside sane people's minds remotely influencing them.
Sure, whatever..You just "manipulated" what little respect I had left for you right out of existence. (which wasn't much to begin with)
Be glad I don't know your real name or where you'd live, or I'd send the men in white coats after you.
Edited by Lafeel (11/26/08 12:43 PM)
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Newtype
11/26/08 12:45 PM
207.160.205.13
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No I didn't. I'm going to RI CBT tournament rule typists to legalize LAMs for tournaments.
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Lafeel
11/26/08 12:47 PM
85.220.115.86
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Quote:
No I didn't. I'm going to RI CBT tournament rule typists to legalize LAMs for tournaments.
Don't hold your breath..
Actually on second thought, please do, it'd save the rest of us a whole lot of bother. *last post he's ever going to make in reply to Newtype and puts the lunatic on ignore*
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Newtype
11/26/08 12:55 PM
207.160.205.13
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I RIed TW rulebook typists to have a unit equipped with TAG get to use TAG & its weapons in the same turn. And I RIed them to have ground and aerospace rules integrated - that's what's in TW. Soon LAM rules will be in TW. I'll have to be in delta state (asleep) to get this accomplished).
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GiovanniBlasini
11/27/08 07:10 AM
64.183.4.46
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Quote:
Quote:
BTW the RIing he's so stuck on..... WTF IS THAT?
RIing means remote influencing (psychic influencing from a distance). RIing is basically I can psychically cause events to happen (I've taken the Remote Influencing Course from Gerald O'Donnell's Academy).
Member of the Pundit Caste
"Which side are we on? We're on the side of the demons, Chief. We're evil men in the gardens of paradise, sent by the forces of death to spread devastation and destruction wherever we go. I'm surprised you didn't know that." -- Col. Saul Tigh, BSG2003
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Fang
11/27/08 10:53 AM
12.54.128.7
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Seems he won't 
One by one, the rabbits are stealing my sanity.....
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Christopher_Perkins
11/27/08 01:54 PM
76.104.32.151
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oooo kay...
He has definately exceeded his Doubt Benefit...
Christopher Robin Perkins
It is my opinion that all statements should be questioned, digested, disected, tasted, and then either spit out or adopted... RHIP is not a god given shield
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Zandel_Corrin
11/30/08 05:41 PM
123.2.140.247
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... o.O
Galaxy Commander
Zandel Corrin
Night Dragon Clan
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Prince_of_Darkness
12/01/08 12:50 AM
205.202.120.139
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We just might as well start spamming this thread ourselves to save us the hassle of him doing it.
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Newtype
12/04/08 08:50 AM
75.52.182.110
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Quote:
LAMs transform, Airships Do not
Yes LAMs transform which is why many players like them.
Quote:
LAMs have
Mech Walk
Mech Run
Mech Jump
AirMech Walk
Airmech Run
Airmech Jump
AirMech Flight
Figher Thrust
Fighter OverThrust
(and there is a good case for renaming Airmech Flight to Airmech Flank and adding Airmech Cruise)
Actually no. The wings provide lift only and jump jets provide thrust only; the wings simply extend the movement of the jump jets. A VTOL with wings can move farther than a VTOL without wings.
Quote:
Then there is the question of Physical Attacks...
LAMs are much more complicated
No more complicated than 'Mechs and aerofighters doing physical attacks.
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Zandel_Corrin
12/04/08 05:35 PM
123.2.140.247
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As a unit they are more complicated cause they are basically a mech and an aero at the same time...
the possibilities are simply much higher that you can screw up some rule for use with LAMS that if unnoticed makes them to overpowered
Galaxy Commander
Zandel Corrin
Night Dragon Clan
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Christopher_Perkins
12/04/08 11:00 PM
76.104.32.151
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Quote:
Quote:
LAMs transform, Airships Do not
Yes LAMs transform which is why many players like them.
LAMs Transform, which is why even players that like them acknowledge that they do NOT belong in the Tournament Legal portion of the BattleTech rules set that has been pared down to what tens of players playing in the same game can be expected to get straight.
Frankly, Chip,
Tournament Legal doesn't mean spit so stop kvetching about LAMs being left out of Total Warfare...
I am a bit peeved that LAMs were not in Tactical Operations Manual... but I am Satisfied in their statement that the bugfixed rules would be in Liberation of Terra as they promised when they first started talking about Total Warfare, Tech Manual, Tactical Operations Manual, etc.
Quote:
Quote:
LAMs have
Mech Walk
Mech Run
Mech Jump
AirMech Walk
Airmech Run
Airmech Jump
AirMech Flight
Figher Thrust
Fighter OverThrust
(and there is a good case for renaming Airmech Flight to Airmech Flank and adding Airmech Cruise)
Actually no. The wings provide lift only and jump jets provide thrust only; the wings simply extend the movement of the jump jets. A VTOL with wings can move farther than a VTOL without wings.
The Wings provide lift based on the sweep of the wings...
if the wings are swept, the lift of the wings are almost non Existant, leaving the Airmech to use only the Thrust of the Jump Jets...
If the Wings are Fully Extended, then the Airmech has the distance that it can get from its JJ Thrust trebbled (to the point that it can remain in the air)
If the wings are in an interim step, then there should be a point where the wings provide only enough lift to double the distance from the jump
Quote:
Quote:
Then there is the question of Physical Attacks...
LAMs are much more complicated
No more complicated than 'Mechs and aerofighters doing physical attacks.
Aerofighters cannot do physical attacks, AirMech Mode LAMs have the possibility of doing so.
BattleMechs and Fighters Cannot Transform into the other, Land Air Mechs have 3 Modes, with two and a half seperate styles of movement
Land Air Mechs are Complicated Units.
If they are not so complicated...
then Why are you making such a stink about there not being new rules for them?
Christopher Robin Perkins
It is my opinion that all statements should be questioned, digested, disected, tasted, and then either spit out or adopted... RHIP is not a god given shield
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Prince_of_Darkness
12/05/08 10:24 AM
205.202.120.139
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Quote:
If they are not so complicated...
then Why are you making such a stink about there not being new rules for them?
Because he is an idiot who probably should be banned.
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Newtype
12/05/08 02:23 PM
75.52.182.110
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LAMs are complicated but their movement calculations are not as complicated as airships (airships require adding). I'd like for them to be tournament legal because I think they'd attract more players to CBT. I don't think that LAMs should be Clan tournaments legal but I think LAMs could be in Martial Olympiad tournaments and other nonClan tournaments.
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Christopher_Perkins
12/05/08 11:24 PM
76.104.32.151
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Quote:
LAMs are complicated but their movement calculations are not as complicated as airships (airships require adding).
Airships have only two movement modes
Land Air Mechs have Walk, Run and Jump for 2 Movement Modes and Thrust and Flank for the final Movement mode.
That is complicated
Quote:
I'd like for them to be tournament legal because I think they'd attract more players to CBT.
1: Them not being tournament legal does not keep them out of home play
2: LAMs were always rare in universe
3: Tournament Legality does not mean spit.
Quote:
I don't think that LAMs should be Clan tournaments legal but I think LAMs could be in Martial Olympiad tournaments and other nonClan tournaments.
Ultra Light BattleMechs
BattleMechs using the Null Signature System and Chameleon Light Polarization Shield
BattleMechs using Anti-Aircraft Targeting System
none of these are Tournament Legal, but they still exist in the game...
Artillery isnt Tournament Legal
Neither Are Mines
Neither are any of the Tings that are Published in Tactical Operations Manual...
so...
Also.. Land Air BattleMechs ceased to be in production with the destruction of what was retconned into the last LAM Factory... as such, they were no longer in Production, so...
Reasons for them to not be Tournament Legal now
1: Rules Complexity of the Air Mech Mode in comparison with Standard Mechs and Fighters
2: Multiple Modes increases the rules complexity
3: Rare units
4: Being Rules Level 3 as long as the Rules Level System has been In Effect
5: They were never Tournament Legal, not even under Mech Force.
6: Out of Production in 3054... and the current game year is 3075
7: The Powers that be had to be practicly bludgeoned into thinking that the LAM rules may just need to be fixed if only so that games set during 2680 and 3054 will have viable AeroTech 2 rules for them (this is when they would have much rather had them dissapear into footnotes of history)
Christopher Robin Perkins
It is my opinion that all statements should be questioned, digested, disected, tasted, and then either spit out or adopted... RHIP is not a god given shield
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Newtype
12/13/08 09:57 AM
75.52.182.110
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How about letting LAMs be tournament legal at tournament organizer's discretion?
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Zandel_Corrin
12/14/08 06:36 PM
123.2.140.247
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And what makes you thing that that hasn't always been the way it is?
Galaxy Commander
Zandel Corrin
Night Dragon Clan
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Prince_of_Darkness
12/14/08 08:10 PM
205.202.120.139
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Quote:
And what makes you thing that that hasn't always been the way it is?
Because he is a troll. He only wants to continue this stupid argument, which if I could, would have been locked sometime ago after Chris's post.
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Christopher_Perkins
12/16/08 10:25 AM
76.104.32.151
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Note, when I say Tournaments, I am only talking about the Official Games that are run by the Catalyst Agents (once FanPro Commandos) that have any meaninng at all that I would travel hundreds of miles to get to , and not fan run events that I will not travel even five feet for
Non-Tournament Rules may always be added to a tournament if the tournament Organizer so desires, however Tournaments are run by Catalyst Agents (Formerly Fanpro Commandos) so they tend to be run with just the bare minimum, i.e. Total Warfare.
Some Non-Tournament rules are more likely to be co-opted at Official tournaments and other official games... (fire, mines, artillery)
but if a Agent decided that they wanted to deal with LAMs, they could do so and reprint the LAM rules in a flyer for the tournament or specifify that the players need to bring the Book to the tournament in addition to Total Warfare.
Christopher Robin Perkins
It is my opinion that all statements should be questioned, digested, disected, tasted, and then either spit out or adopted... RHIP is not a god given shield
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MaiShirunaiispretty
12/20/08 06:54 PM
207.160.205.13
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I propose that a vote be cast of everyone who owns Tactical Operations and Total Warfare. Voters can submit their votes as yea or nay for LAM rules. To make sure people own books, the bar codes on books can be photocopied and sent with votes. So basically if WizKids gets more votes for Tactical Operations than Total Warfare, then LAM rules should be published in a revised version of Tactical Operations and vice versa.
Wow, those bracing maneuvers sure do come in handy when firing proximity fused precision cluster flak ammo at a Balancer LAM. Unfortunately they make my 'Mech an immobile target for that LAM. Oh well, at least I'm getting partial cover.
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MacLeod
12/20/08 07:00 PM
169.233.104.154
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Except that makes no sense. Hell, that logic is convoluted enough to make me think you're Newtype under a new name...
Drugs don't kill people, pancreatic cancer kills people.
... and whoever heard of a drug that causes pancreatic cancer?
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