Cadet
01/30/03 07:15 PM
206.102.33.33
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I've been looking through some of the older posts and there seems to be a common theme in some of them. A poster will mention a lack of BattleTech game products in a local store since there is virtually no advertising by FanPro. Then someone will claim that we need to tell the stores that BattleTech isn't dead and they should order.
Why? Why isn't FanPro actually doing advertising instead of relying on the fanbase?
I don't believe a writeup in a single magazine for a product line that has been around for roughly a year quite constitutes advertising either. I understand word of mouth is a great thing, but why isn't FanPro taking the initiative here?
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Eclipz
01/30/03 07:47 PM
66.191.27.103
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There is an article in gamesunplugged #23 plus the first look at the Project Phoenix Warhammer IIc. The only problem with that is gamesunplugged is a little know mag (or it is around here).
Scott
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Cadet
01/30/03 07:49 PM
206.102.33.33
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That's what I mean. Why isn't FanPro doing any serious advertising (beyond a "feature" in a minor gaming magazine)?
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Nightward
01/30/03 08:19 PM
202.138.18.135
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Probably becauseWhiz Kidz owns all the advertising rights or some other such BS.
Who cares? FASA went down the tube because they didn't use the brains God gave an ant when it came to advertising. If FanPro haven't learnt from the mistakes of FASA, they won't be around too much longer.
I agree that more advertsising does need to be done.
Yea, verily. Let it be known far and wide that Nightward loathes MW: DA. Indeed, it is with the BURNING ANIMUS OF A THOUSAND SUNS that he doth rage against it with.
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Eclipz
01/30/03 08:58 PM
66.191.27.103
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I have no idea why they can't or don't do more than they do. But I also don't think they have done a bad job since they have taken over the game either.
Scott
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Karagin
01/30/03 09:13 PM
68.21.149.173
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But, but but they are in Games Unplugged #23! That is the best thing for them! Everyone reads that magazine!!!!
That is the common answers we will get...and so far up until recently most folks hadn't heard about that magazine. Hell the local hobby shop who has up until FASA died carried BT has never even heard of Games Unplugged and the store has been selling gaming material since it open in 1988.
And the owner WON'T carry a product that doesn't seem to be supported by it's parent company. So even though I have asked and other have as well, no advertisment means it's a dead product.
So what is the reason that FP isn't pushing even small ads in magazines like Starlog (big sci-fi/movie magazine) or Game Trader or the Anime mag that is on the stands or even Wizard? An ad the size of credit card can't run in to the millions of dollars and given that each of the above magazines are seen monthly by 1000s of folks and potentional and current gamers it can't hurt...
But given that 70% of the folks who were at FASA are at the US side of FP it's not surprising we haven't seen ads.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Nightmare
01/31/03 03:21 AM
80.222.92.246
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They`ve continued stocking Btech stuff as normal in my favorite gaming store, perhaps even increased the shelf space a bit. Then again, it`s the main office of Finland`s largest (and first, IIRC) RPG/wargame specialist. I don`t think the owner cares much for what the publisher does or doesn`t do as long as the customers buy things from that line.
Advice for Evil Overlords:
My legions of terror will be trained in basic marksmanship. Any who cannot learn to hit a man-sized target at 10 meters will be used for target practice.
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Vapor
01/31/03 05:22 AM
202.128.69.122
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That sounds a lot like the owner of the store I've found here. He didn't have any CBT items when I first talked to him, but he's talking to his distributors about getting some. 
"For those about to rock, we salute you." - AC DC
"The evil that can come, from the heart of a man, must be answered in kind 'till it disappears, and we're safe." - Kansas
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Cray
01/31/03 07:03 AM
65.32.253.120
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In reply to:
Why isn't FanPro actually doing advertising instead of relying on the fanbase?
One of the problems game companies seem to have after taking a bad hit is people assume the company is "dead," even if it's not. I want to say this happened to the Traveller publisher...Anyway, since game stores have discretion over what they order in (including advertizing posters), and they think the game is dead, they need first person confirmation BT is alive and well.
Where would you have BT advertize? A lot of the popular RPG magazines seem rather dedicated to a single game system anymore.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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Cadet
01/31/03 06:35 PM
206.102.35.37
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I'm not just talking about a single magazine write up, or even going to something like GenCon (honestly, how many game store owners can afford to go to something like that?). I am talking about putting adds in a trade rag, or in something like a game magazine on a regular basis. Maybe a nice color layout or purchasing the back cover or something. Maybe even something as little as sending a few flyers to individual shops.
I understand the game store owners not realizing FanPro is publishing BattleTech a year ago, but now? Inexcusable. FanPro SHOULD be putting the word out.
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Karagin
01/31/03 11:17 PM
207.43.145.97
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I agree they could have ads in Starlog magazine or Wizard...most stores carry those...or any of the Anime magazines.
But hey that makes sense and would actually mean BT would be seen as in direct compteption with MWDA.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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KamikazeJohnson
02/01/03 02:26 AM
142.161.0.92
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>>But hey that makes sense and would actually mean BT would be seen as in direct compteption with MWDA. <<
They should put Btech ads in MWDA starter packs...you know..."Go Back To Where It All Began...", slogans like that! Unfortunately, that could label the game as "dated" and "old school" or whatever, but if it's done right, it could drag in some new players. That way, the two games would cross-promote, instead of being in competition. Of course, BTech might win, and then where would WK be? 
Peace is that glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.
--Thomas Jefferson
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Cadet
02/01/03 10:24 AM
206.102.32.83
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Well seeing as how when MWDA goes, that it drags CBT with it...well not a good situation really.
Peg: "Thank Jordan kids..."
Bud and Kelly: "Thanks Jordan..."
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Vapor
02/02/03 02:40 AM
202.128.69.122
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In reply to:
But hey that makes sense and would actually mean BT would be seen as in direct compteption with MWDA.
I disagree. CBT could never be seen as being in competition with MW:DA, simply because they are two completely different gaming systems. MW:DA is an entry-level game to introduce younger players to the BT universe, and CBT is a more advanced game for serious gaming.
"For those about to rock, we salute you." - AC DC
"The evil that can come, from the heart of a man, must be answered in kind 'till it disappears, and we're safe." - Kansas
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Karagin
02/02/03 08:17 PM
68.21.149.158
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Same universe, same group of mechs, same major players and a two rules sets that DON'T allow for easy advancement from either direction thus forcing the player to learn a new system for both.
Both games target the teenagers and thus they will compete.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Vapor
02/03/03 03:45 AM
202.128.71.52
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Same universe, yes.
Same group of mechs, yes.
Same major players (do you mean characters? if so, then yes).
However, your next point shows why they wouldn't be in direct competition with each other. Players will have to learn two different systems. These are two similar, yet completely different games that are based on the same universe. (kind of like comparing CBT and Neveron. A lot of similarities, but just as many distinct differences). Yes, they will provide a choice for fans of the BT universe (whether to choose one or the other, or both), but I don't think they will provide any direct competition against each other as games, simply because of the inherent differences. (eg. I will probably never play MW:DA simply because I think it is too simplistic. There's really no competition where I am concerned. Someone else might have to make a choice, and that's where any competition might come into play.)
I also disagree that they are both targeted at the same age-group. MW:DA is targeted at a younger age-group than CBT is. (Please note, I am not saying that an older player wouldn't enjoy playing MW:DA, just that CBT is a bit more involved than most younger players like)
"For those about to rock, we salute you." - AC DC
"The evil that can come, from the heart of a man, must be answered in kind 'till it disappears, and we're safe." - Kansas
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Karagin
02/03/03 10:30 AM
68.21.149.103
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Not the same characters...and not the same factions.
How are they not in competion? They both have miniatures, they both are sci-fi games, they both target generally the same audience, last time I looked the box set for BT said ages 10 and up, that sounds a lot like the same demographic age group MWDA is targeted at.
The mechs aren't the same, sorry but we don't have logger mechs running around as common everyday LEVEL2 machines.
The rules of the two games are different, but so are the rules of AT2 and yet that game hasn't challenged BT for the top spot and folks play both with out any problems and the two can be combined to give an even bigger playing field.
And going the other way, bring MWDA into BT, means that allowing in the IC mechs would mean that everyone in your group or mine allows Level 3 rules to be used...and that is not the case in every group. Kind of hard to have a level 2 BT mech of the logger or factory mech since the physical attack weapons that they use are level 3.
That to me is the inherited problems and areas that the two game compete.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Cadet
02/03/03 10:18 PM
206.102.33.157
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But they haven't done any adverstising at all. If game shops are still convinced BattleTech is dead a year after FanPro took up the riegns, then something is seriously wrong. It isn't the fan's responsibility to ensure corporate advertising is done at all.
I kind of wonder how many fans of BT simply don't know CBT even exists. I know of a couple of people who don't even look a the CBT website. How else would they even know the stuff exists if they can't just see it at the game store, of buy it online at a place like amazon.com?
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Karagin
02/03/03 11:24 PM
68.21.149.32
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You raise a very good point...and it has yet to be answered by TPTB...
(and yes I saw Randal's battlechat that did mention they were looking into the ads issue, but that only addressed the whole Games Unplugged thing and given that NOT every store get's that magazine...FYI in case some want to bring it up)
...We the fans can only do so much with word of mouth, and most hobby shops and such aren't going to take just word of mouth as proof...they want to see the product in places like Game Trader or one of the other catologs so they can see for themsevles that BT is alive and breathing.
Again I raise the issue why can't FP advertise in the different Sci-fi magaiznes? What is stopping them? Do all the ads have to go through WK? If that is true then I think we all know which game is of more importance to them and it's NOT Battletech.
I know of several who don't know BT is back...and two of them don't really care, one left after Stackpole's essays and the other right before TR3067 came out. And they don't visit CBT's site so they wouldn't know if the game was alive or not since there are no ads in the main stream sci-fi/comic book settings to let them know.
So why is it we see a lot of ads for MWDA and NONE for BT?
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Nightmare
02/05/03 03:24 AM
80.222.92.246
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-I kind of wonder how many fans of BT simply don't know CBT even exists.
A few might still think the line is dead. I`d imagine anyone who really liked the game would hear the news eventually, but those who only hanged out on the fringes are another matter. Most of my opponents are only available for Btech when there`s nothing better going on, like a TT RPG or a LAN session of Infiltration. They wouldn`t likely know anything if I hadn`t told them.
Advice for Evil Overlords:
My legions of terror will be trained in basic marksmanship. Any who cannot learn to hit a man-sized target at 10 meters will be used for target practice.
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Chunga
02/09/03 11:51 PM
24.211.11.205
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You're saying that your store will not order you Battletech products when you've asked for them? That's astounding.
You have cash, which you will give this person, for books or miniatures, and he REFUSES to take it? This person needs to spend 5 minutes and he could take your money, but he won't? This must be one comfortable store owner. Wow.
It's this sort of thing that make me so grateful of the gaming stores around me. I can walk into any one of 5 stores in the area, ask for a book (as long as I have a part number or something to describe it) and generally have it in a week or two. Hell, even Waldenbooks ordered me something once.
I don't know how I would survive in your shoes.
Chunga
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Vapor
02/10/03 03:03 AM
202.128.73.130
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The store in my area is the same way. They don't carry any CBT items yet, but since I went in and asked, the owner has told me that he will look into getting some CBT items, and if I need anything special ordered, he'll even do that for me. So, I'm happy.
"For those about to rock, we salute you." - AC DC
"The evil that can come, from the heart of a man, must be answered in kind 'till it disappears, and we're safe." - Kansas
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Bob_Richter
02/10/03 06:58 PM
4.35.174.250
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1 - Advertising, especially where it will be noticed, is expensive.
2 - THE MOST EFFECTIVE FORM OF ADVERTISING is word-of-mouth, and this is the form publishing companies have relied upon for centuries.
Not that that excuses FanPro for not advertising...
...but it is still your duty as a dedicated Battletech player to go to your FLGS, tell them CBT exists, and tell them to tell everyone who used to play Battletech.
Is that so very hard?
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter
Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
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Karagin
02/10/03 10:56 PM
208.42.114.130
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First WORD OF MOUTH is NOT the most effective if it's NOT backed up by ads in magazines that folks will see, ie STARLOG or WIZARD etc...
And second, the company has to show the store owners that the product is there and is not just one person walking in ordering a limited item that WON'T sell to others since they don't see any ads that support said item.
So 99% of the responibility falls on FanPro to get the ads out thus showing that the requests made by us the fans are more then hear say and rumor or a single person looking for one or two things.
Have a nice day.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Eclipz
02/10/03 11:31 PM
66.191.27.103
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I'm not sure about your local shop but ours gets a magazine type thing from Alliance every couple months (give or take) and it has everything being released during that time frame from Alliance. He flips thru and can see that Battletech is alive and well and he orders the product. So it isn't like nobody knows it is in production.
Scott
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Bob_Richter
02/11/03 06:40 AM
4.35.174.250
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>>>First WORD OF MOUTH is NOT the most effective<<<
Wrong.
Of any single form of advertisement, word of mouth is the most effective AND the least expensive.
I don't read magazines myself, especially not STARLOG or WIZARD (and I have heard of neither until this discussion,) so any advertisement placed in that one would miss me completely.
The Internet, on ther other hand, reaches someone in almost every community around the globe. We (the online Battletech Community) know it is still going, and so do most of our FLGS.
The only way to reach a wider audience would be a nationally or globally syndicated television or radio show.
We have internet. We have word of mouth. We even have some advertisements in magazines. Is it enough? No. Is it a start? Yes.
Everyone will eventually know. Is it so much of a bother to get out there and support your hobby? Lazy bums.
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter
Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
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Cadet
02/11/03 07:58 AM
206.102.34.80
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Word of mouth being great and all, just ain't good enough Bob.
Remember the fliers with exclusive 'Mechs? Banners? Maps? Displays? FASA might have had a lot of faults, but they did advertise. Neither FanPro or WhizKids seem interested in promoting a game system that has been out for a year.
Yeah, we're out there looking at the webpages, and telling people, but we're already in the game. There is only so much we can do, and it really is their responsibility to promote their product. Hoping we'll do it isn't enough, and it isn't fair to us. Relieing on us telling a game store owner that BattleTech still exists, and him flipping through his catalog and saying, "Well, I'll be damned. It does exist," is not indicitive of the company promoting their product, and promotion is a legitimate business function. It is something they should be doing and aren't. That whole lack of advertising is hurting the game because people just don't know about it. Sure, that game store might order a few books for people that ask for them, but they have no incentive to order more because people just don't know about the game. There are no new players. Potential shoppers want to see big colorful banners, not some guy saying "Hey, it's a great game." I can't be in that game store round the clock, a display of books and boxes can be.
But what do I know, I'm only a NAYSAYER!...
Does not play well with others.
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Vapor
02/11/03 09:26 AM
202.123.138.70
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What I'd love to know is whether or not FanPro does, in fact, have any CBT posters. If they do, how do I go about getting a hold of them to put up in my local game store? The owner of the store has asked his distributors about getting CBT stuff, but as far as I know, he hasn't heard back from them, yet.
"For those about to rock, we salute you." - AC DC
"The evil that can come, from the heart of a man, must be answered in kind 'till it disappears, and we're safe." - Kansas
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Bob_Richter
02/11/03 10:58 AM
4.35.174.250
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>>>Remember the fliers with exclusive 'Mechs?<<<
Nope.
>>>Banners?<<<
Nope.
>>>Maps?<<<
Nope.
>>>Displays?<<<
Nope.
>>>FASA might have had a lot of faults, but they did advertise.<<<
Not very well, they didn't.
>>>That whole lack of advertising is hurting the game because people just don't know about it. <<<
IF they don't, it's because they've been hiding under a rock.
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter
Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
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Cadet
02/11/03 11:10 AM
206.102.33.108
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Play FanPro cheerleader all you want, it won't change the fact that the lack of advertising is hurting the game. Potential new players don't even know the game exists. But then again, why would we want them to know? They've been living under a rock.
Does not play well with others.
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