Greyslayer
09/03/04 01:51 PM
216.14.192.233
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Quote:
"I, the Baron of Strang, care not for your new names. Clans? Jade Falcons? I call you by your true names: Scum of the Star League, traitors of free will, persecutors of the Periphery came back to lord it over freedom-loving people. Come ahead, you steel-eyed robots! Come ahead and taste what a million like-minded people think of you and your damn Clans."
- Baron Stepan Von Strang, in reply to the Jade Falcon challenge
This conflict epitimizes the extremely poor representation of logic used by FASA when introducing the Clans. The strength of the Jade Falcon victory in this conflict relied on the very pathetic description of an aerospace fighter returning from a sortie through a very fierce electrical storm below seeing the light spill out of mech bunkers open behind the Jade Falcon lines. Sheer brilliance (sarcasm) why hasn't an idea like this been used before? Thats right because its... well I'll let your mind fill in the blanks here.
Grey's Background:
Even Comstar's knowledge of this planet is almost non-existant, any person that lands on it is incarcerated. Despite this most intelligence reports classify the planet with a population of about 18,000 to 20,000 yet support at least 1 Battalion of Battlemechs with well trained pilots plus auxillary units.
Amaris City is the only 'city' on the planet and is protected by massive fortifications stretching around and well away. They were designed to stall or take out many times the defenders number of troops. Mines are also extensively used.
The Jade Falcons arogantly sent down their Keshik unit to dispose of the defenders. The defenders fell back after initial conflict showed the superior firepower of the opposing units and the Falcons fell into a series of problems. At a crucial point where the clan forces were at the edge of a large minefield and their elementals were tasked with their removal the Baron chose this as the time to strike from hidden positions with the bulk of their mech forces.
The Problem with what was written by FASA writer:
- Even IS mechs of level 1 technology would have secondary methods of navigating without the need of lights. Well trained forces would DEFINITELY not have any lights on when springing a trap this well orchestrated.
- It just so happen that a aerospace pilot dealing with a nasty electrical storm looked through all this to see the below happening. The storms were playing havoc with systems so visual would be the only way the pilot could tell what was happening. Refer to above point on light not being on.
The real result:
Caught out in the open and still not able to make use of their long-ranged advantage due to the minefield and their ignorant bliss approach to the peril at their back means the Jade Falcons suffer serious damage.
The elementals initially out of the conflict arrive a little too late to save the situation. Even a victory in this conflict would still mean reserves would be called in and the probable death or incapacitation of several key personnel to Jade Falcons.
Best Case scenario for the Falcons:
Von Strang falls early in the conflict demoralising the troops allowing the Falcons some respite. They still suffer serious losses. Since this is a best case scenario Key figures come through unscathed.
Worst Case Scenario:
Outsmarted and when the force of Von Strang get close enough, outgunned, the Jade Falcons fall in a heap. Their reliance on Zellbreggin (even if it was dropped for the conflict old habits are hard to drop) conflict. Their lack of initial elemental support to stop IS mechs getting too close. The minefield at their back and if the commander was 1/2 as smart as we believe he was then the usage of artillery pieces would be making in-roads on the clan forces as well.
Diamond Sharks were watching this conflict and the loss of Jade Falcon's Khan and the entire Keshik results in Jade Falcon being effectively removed before it has invaded the IS proper. There is no way they could hide this, even the subsequent obliteration from the orbiting warship could not hide the shame the entire clan would feel..... game over Jade Falcon. *cheers*
Note: We can dream, even if it is 'logical'.
Clan fanboys/girls can try to debunk if you want... *evil grin* 
Anyone want to write up a good story to do with this 'version' of events?
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Nightward
09/03/04 07:16 PM
203.214.145.250
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Hey, any scenario where the Jade Falcons get their arses handed to them works for me 
OTOH, though, the psychological impact of fighting the Clans for the first time cannot be discounted. Like in the first Blood of Kerensky novel, where Phelan squares off with Vladimir, who shoots him from a kilometre away with the Timber Wolf's ER Large Lasers. And keeps firing, even when the 'Mech should have shut down from heat. And isn't bothered at all when Phelan opens up on him, scoring hits that would have made a Maruader pilot back off. And when the Timber Wolf- despite weighing better than twice the Wolfhound- moves very nearly as fast. And and and and and.
Many of the initial battles would have gone as described in the books. Imagine you're someone who's only ever played Level 1, only knows what Level 1 can do, and thinks that Level 1 is the extent of BT tech. Now imagine you're sitting across from a guy using Clan tech. It's the first time you've ever seen Clan tech. He can hit you from HOW FAR now? For HOW MUCH damage? Why isn't he over-heating? What gives with the Piloting skills?
I'm pretty sure it would be demolition in short order for the IS force as the Level 1 commander tried to work things out.
And unlike in normal BT play, where tactics would be disseminated throughout a group and new strategies evolved to counter them, the forces opposing the Clans were destroyed to the last, unable to pass their knowledge on.
So not only do they have these massive advantages over you tech-wise, there's apparently nothing you can do to win either, so morale spirals down...
It's easy to say what could be done in hindsight, but at the time, the Clan victories are entirely reasonable.
'Sides, the tide turned soon enough. And sheer weight of numbers would indicate that the Clans could never have wo any way.
Yea, verily. Let it be known far and wide that Nightward loathes MW: DA. Indeed, it is with the BURNING ANIMUS OF A THOUSAND SUNS that he doth rage against it with.
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phoenix
09/04/04 11:35 AM
12.221.81.134
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Quote:
Many of the initial battles would have gone as described in the books. Imagine you're someone who's only ever played Level 1, only knows what Level 1 can do, and thinks that Level 1 is the extent of BT tech. Now imagine you're sitting across from a guy using Clan tech. It's the first time you've ever seen Clan tech. He can hit you from HOW FAR now? For HOW MUCH damage? Why isn't he over-heating? What gives with the Piloting skills?
Wow, you just perfectly described the first game I played against Clan forces. My poor unsuspecting Warhammer against a friend in some mech called a Timberwolf!?  I got off one shot from my PPCs before I was completely dismembered and turned into scrap metal. Throughout the entire battle I had to take timeouts and have my friend show me in the Citytech rule book that his mech really could shoot its weapons from such extreme ranges.
Phoenix
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Nightward
09/04/04 07:15 PM
203.214.146.88
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Yup. That's what a lot of people forget when they call for "realistic" Clan vs IS battles at the start of the Invasion: the fact that you, as the player, know the rules doesn't mean anything- the IS force commanders were fighting blind and ill-prepared.
That aside, the Clans were tearing through Periphery assets. It's hardly as though the AFFC, DCMS, and Royal Kungsarme deployed their crack units to guard the back ede of nowhere. Those regiments were barely competant.
The fact that the Wolves were the only Clan able to make the change up between fighting idiots and sqauring off against the ComGuard speaks volumes for that Clan's ability- and the deficiencies of the other Clans.
Without Aidan Pryde (ie, Mr. Deus Ex Machina), the Falcons would have imploded on Tukayyid. And the Bears had the advantage of the average 'Mech weight in their Touman being like 85 tons or something ridiculous like that.
Yea, verily. Let it be known far and wide that Nightward loathes MW: DA. Indeed, it is with the BURNING ANIMUS OF A THOUSAND SUNS that he doth rage against it with.
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Greyslayer
09/06/04 01:51 AM
216.14.192.233
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Quote:
Yup. That's what a lot of people forget when they call for "realistic" Clan vs IS battles at the start of the Invasion: the fact that you, as the player, know the rules doesn't mean anything- the IS force commanders were fighting blind and ill-prepared.
Von Strang was neither fighting blind nor ill-prepared. I perhaps gave not enough information to yourself to truly understand how well prepared Von Strang was. For HUNDREDS of years the Von Strangs have expected reprisals from Kerenski's Star League. Through all this the populace with an almost singular mind worked towards improving the defences of Amaris City. They remember all too well the superior technology and mechs that the Star League employed, hence the reliance on tactics and strategy. They truly expected to be outnumbered by superior troops.
Even the writers admit that it was the lights from the open mech bunkers that saved them. Von Strang wasn't playing for sheep stations he and his people were fighting for their lives and their warped sence of freedom from the Star League, they would mix it up with their opponent really close and personal. They wanted to send a message to the 'star league', and lets face it in his reply, which is the quote in the first post, he saw straight through their silly costumes and their named budgie force.
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Nightward
09/07/04 03:17 AM
203.214.149.221
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Also, it was the Jade Falcon Keshik- a reinforced Cluster- against a Battalion of Level 1 troops.
Even the Green Chickens can beat odds like that 
Yea, verily. Let it be known far and wide that Nightward loathes MW: DA. Indeed, it is with the BURNING ANIMUS OF A THOUSAND SUNS that he doth rage against it with.
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