KamikazeJohnson
03/02/14 10:53 PM
50.72.218.68
|
I'm planning on setting up a challenge scenario with my local BT group. What I have in mind is a city defense where I defend with a predetermined IS 3025 force and the others bid to see who gets to attack with Clan attackers.
1 mapboard city, plus a 1 mapboard approach
I'm thinking of defending with:
2 lances of UrbanMechs
1 lance of heavy tanks
1 lance of medium tanks
10 platoons of mixed Conventional Infantry
2 AC/10 Gun Emplacements
I'm thinking of opening the bidding at a Trinary of Daishis (which would stomp me flat without breaking a sweat) and seeing how far down it gets bid before they pick a winner.
Any thoughts on where the bidding ought to stop to make it an even force?
Peace is that glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.
--Thomas Jefferson
|
Retry
03/02/14 10:59 PM
67.239.109.174
|
It really depends on what your heavy and medium tanks are, along with your INF. If the Daishis only consists of Daishis, and you have multiple platoons of heavy laser infantry, they'll have a hell of a fight. This is the turf of the infantry.
|
ghostrider
03/02/14 11:02 PM
24.30.128.72
|
I would think a star of heavy/mediums should take care of this defense. Though that would depend on how you run sensors and detection. It would be a tough fight..
|
KamikazeJohnson
03/02/14 11:06 PM
50.72.218.68
|
Quote:
It really depends on what your heavy and medium tanks are, along with your INF. If the Daishis only consists of Daishis, and you have multiple platoons of heavy laser infantry, they'll have a hell of a fight. This is the turf of the infantry.
Thinking of going primarily with LRM tanks, and doing a lot of indirect LRM fire. Probably go easy on them with mostly Rifle Infantry, a few SRM, maybe a few with Anti-'Mech training.
I'm expecting my opponents to badly underestimate both my Infantry and effectiveness of UrbanMechs in their natural habitat. For a long-established group, most of the members seem to have remarkably little familiarity with the finer points of strategy.
Peace is that glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.
--Thomas Jefferson
|
Retry
03/02/14 11:17 PM
67.239.109.174
|
Let's see, 8 urbies, 4 heavies, 4 mediums, 2 turrets, 10 conv platoons.
Will the clans be using just first-liners or will second-liners and solahma forces be considered as well?
|
KamikazeJohnson
03/02/14 11:22 PM
50.72.218.68
|
Quote:
Let's see, 8 urbies, 4 heavies, 4 mediums, 2 turrets, 10 conv platoons.
Will the clans be using just first-liners or will second-liners and solahma forces be considered as well?
For simplicity, I'd restrict it to anything from TRO:3050. For bidding purposes 'Mechs are ranked by tonnage, with the lowest being a point of BA.
Peace is that glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.
--Thomas Jefferson
|
Retry
03/02/14 11:25 PM
67.239.109.174
|
Perhaps a squad of IIC lights and mediums, plus 2 or 3 lances of light or medium clan tanks.
Don't have TRO:3050, sorry.
|
ghostrider
03/02/14 11:26 PM
24.30.128.72
|
its the book that has the primary omni mechs the clans invaded with. Including stats on elemental armor.
|
Karagin
03/02/14 11:39 PM
70.118.139.48
|
It is a very good TRO to get, the original of is even better.
I say stop it the bidding if they fall below 1 star of mechs and 3 of elements.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
|
ghostrider
03/02/14 11:40 PM
24.30.128.72
|
I didn't even think of using a nova. I was thinking just mechs..
|
ghostrider
03/02/14 11:45 PM
24.30.128.72
|
They didn't list any tanks for clans in that tro.
They also don't list any second line mechs the clans use.
I don't think retry would like it. EVERY omni mech in it uses xl engines.
|
Retry
03/02/14 11:49 PM
67.239.109.174
|
I have no problem using XL engines. I just don't like them on my Zombies.
|
ghostrider
03/02/14 11:58 PM
24.30.128.72
|
I bid:
Hellbringer prime
Warhawk c
Timberwolf d
Nova prime
Maddog a
the star of elementals might be an option. I would need to know if you are using one point of damage to infantry from non pulse energy weapons..
|
KamikazeJohnson
03/03/14 10:40 AM
50.72.218.68
|
Quote:
I bid:
Hellbringer prime
Warhawk c
Timberwolf d
Nova prime
Maddog a
the star of elementals might be an option. I would need to know if you are using one point of damage to infantry from non pulse energy weapons..
Hmmm...I'll have to look those up...my TRO:3050 lists them by their IS names.
Let's see,
Nova = Puma
Timber Wolf = Mad Cat
Don't know the rest lol.
I'll be using the up-to-date rules from TW, so yeah, lasers suck vs Infantry, Pulse Lasers and LB-Xs do better, MGs, Flamers, and SPLs are the way to go.
I wouldn't recommend going in there without at least a few points of MG Elementals.
Peace is that glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.
--Thomas Jefferson
|
ghostrider
03/03/14 03:13 PM
66.27.181.33
|
Nova should be the 50 ton black hawk
warhawk is the masakari
Hellbringer is the loki
maddog is the vulture.
and as you know the timberwolf is the madcat.
anyone that thinks the clans are so honorable and don't use ecms, well the primary loki/hellbringer has both a probe and ecm in it.
|
ghostrider
03/03/14 03:28 PM
66.27.181.33
|
wolfclan sourcebook page 23 has the omni names
The adder is the clan name for the puma.
The nova is the black hawk.
|
KamikazeJohnson
03/03/14 03:49 PM
24.114.41.53
|
Quote:
Nova should be the 50 ton black hawk
warhawk is the masakari
Hellbringer is the loki
maddog is the vulture.
and as you know the timberwolf is the madcat.
anyone that thinks the clans are so honorable and don't use ecms, well the primary loki/hellbringer has both a probe and ecm in it.
That Loki also has a-pods, doesn't it?
Peace is that glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.
--Thomas Jefferson
|
ghostrider
03/03/14 03:51 PM
66.27.181.33
|
yep
ain't that nice as well.
|
KamikazeJohnson
03/03/14 04:57 PM
24.114.41.53
|
Quote:
yep
ain't that nice as well.
Generally inferior to MGs or SPLs, but they certainly discourage Anti-Mech platoons from entering the hex.
Peace is that glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.
--Thomas Jefferson
|
Retry
03/03/14 06:52 PM
67.239.109.174
|
I think the fact that you have to make a stupidly hard roll just to swarm even an unarmed super slow truck in the best of circumstances have, at least for me, discouraged me using the so-called anti-mech platoons at all.
|
TigerShark
03/03/14 07:06 PM
68.190.197.104
|
Quote:
Nova should be the 50 ton black hawk
warhawk is the masakari
Hellbringer is the loki
maddog is the vulture.
and as you know the timberwolf is the madcat.
anyone that thinks the clans are so honorable and don't use ecms, well the primary loki/hellbringer has both a probe and ecm in it.
They don't use ECMs in duels to prevent LOS*, but they do use them in combat. Not all Clan combat is under zellbrigen.
* Even this varies from Clan-to-Clan.
Edited by TigerShark (03/03/14 07:11 PM)
|
ghostrider
03/04/14 12:47 AM
66.27.181.33
|
technically ecm isn't to prevent los. It is to make sure the high tech stuff like artemis and streaks don't work.
I wonder if it would mess with a targetting computers solution.
|
Retry
03/04/14 12:49 AM
72.214.204.166
|
ECM messes with sensors I believe.
|
TigerShark
03/04/14 02:24 AM
68.190.197.104
|
Its primary function is to conceal a precise signature. It's designed to mask the location of itself and all friendly units. So in a roundabout way it was intended to hide a unit from direct LOS, potentially for an ambush, escape, concealed approach, etc.
|
KamikazeJohnson
03/08/14 03:23 PM
24.114.24.152
|
So general consesus is that a Star or Medium/Heavy plus some Elementals should provide a fairly even fight? I would of course have terrain, tactical experience, and the likelihood of being massively underestimated in my favour.
Peace is that glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.
--Thomas Jefferson
|
Retry
03/08/14 03:45 PM
76.7.238.202
|
Well, the elementals will obliterate all your infantry platoons if they have the right equipment.
|
KamikazeJohnson
03/08/14 04:10 PM
50.72.218.68
|
Quote:
Retry writes:
Well, the elementals will obliterate all your infantry platoons if they have the right equipment.
In theory. My infantry can still overwhelm them if the odds are right. Will all come down to tactical manoevers.
Without the elementals, my infantry turn the city into a death trap for those 'Mechs.
Peace is that glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.
--Thomas Jefferson
|
ghostrider
03/08/14 11:30 PM
66.27.181.33
|
I would think a great battle would have little to no elemental support. That would force the mechs to hit and run, or destroy buildings. Maybe force them to reneg on the bid. Would shame them for doing so.
This depends on what they bring with them.
|
ATN082268
03/11/14 01:57 AM
69.128.58.222
|
Quote:
KamikazeJohnson writes:
I'm planning on setting up a challenge scenario with my local BT group. What I have in mind is a city defense where I defend with a predetermined IS 3025 force and the others bid to see who gets to attack with Clan attackers.
1 mapboard city, plus a 1 mapboard approach
I'm thinking of defending with:
2 lances of UrbanMechs
1 lance of heavy tanks
1 lance of medium tanks
10 platoons of mixed Conventional Infantry
2 AC/10 Gun Emplacements
I'm thinking of opening the bidding at a Trinary of Daishis (which would stomp me flat without breaking a sweat) and seeing how far down it gets bid before they pick a winner.
Any thoughts on where the bidding ought to stop to make it an even force?
Although it depends a little on the vehicles and the Daishi configurations chosen, I think a Clan Commander would be executed for an opening bid in excess of 10 Daishis for this scenario. This assumes the Inner Sphere has skills of 4 for Gunnery and 5 for Piloting and the Clan has skills of 3 for Gunnery and 4 for Piloting. An interesting final bid against that Inner Sphere force would be 2 Daishi Prime, 2 Daishi A and 1 Daishi S.
|
KamikazeJohnson
03/11/14 02:21 AM
50.72.218.68
|
Quote:
ATN082268 writes:
Quote:
KamikazeJohnson writes:
I'm planning on setting up a challenge scenario with my local BT group. What I have in mind is a city defense where I defend with a predetermined IS 3025 force and the others bid to see who gets to attack with Clan attackers.
1 mapboard city, plus a 1 mapboard approach
I'm thinking of defending with:
2 lances of UrbanMechs
1 lance of heavy tanks
1 lance of medium tanks
10 platoons of mixed Conventional Infantry
2 AC/10 Gun Emplacements
I'm thinking of opening the bidding at a Trinary of Daishis (which would stomp me flat without breaking a sweat) and seeing how far down it gets bid before they pick a winner.
Any thoughts on where the bidding ought to stop to make it an even force?
Although it depends a little on the vehicles and the Daishi configurations chosen, I think a Clan Commander would be executed for an opening bid in excess of 10 Daishis for this scenario. This assumes the Inner Sphere has skills of 4 for Gunnery and 5 for Piloting and the Clan has skills of 3 for Gunnery and 4 for Piloting. An interesting final bid against that Inner Sphere force would be 2 Daishi Prime, 2 Daishi A and 1 Daishi S.
You also have the option of bidding down from a Daishi to a lighter 'Mech or even BattleArmor. No need to stick with just Daishis.
Peace is that glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.
--Thomas Jefferson
|
ghostrider
03/11/14 01:33 PM
66.27.181.33
|
the bid I put in does not have a single dashi. The warhawk/masakari is the heaviest mech at 85 tons. I guess my bid did include an assault in the star.
I am so ashamed. I will be dezgra until I can reclaim that honor.
|
Karagin
03/11/14 09:13 PM
70.118.139.48
|
3 Pumas and two stars of Elementals.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
|
ATN082268
03/12/14 12:54 AM
69.128.58.222
|
I bid one 'Mech...
BattleMech Technical Readout
Type/Model: Dire Wolf (Scenario configuration)
Tech: Clan / 3050
Config: Biped OmniMech
Rules: Level 2, Modified design
Mass: 100 tons
Chassis: Standard
Power Plant: 300 XL Fusion
Walking Speed: 32.4 km/h
Maximum Speed: 54.0 km/h
Jump Jets: 3 Standard Jump Jets
Jump Capacity: 90 meters
Armor Type: Standard
Armament:
1 Arrow IV System
2 Large Pulse Lasers
1 Flamer
4 SRM 6s
4 Anti-Missile Systems
2 ER Medium Lasers
2 Anti-Personnel Pods
Manufacturer: (Unknown)
Location: (Unknown)
Communications System: (Unknown)
Targeting & Tracking System: (Unknown)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
==Overview:==
Supposedly christened Daishi (Great Death) by a member of the Draconis
Combine's criminal underground, this "Mech seems particularly aptly named.
Though the left-shoulder mounted long-range missiles augment the 'Mech's
firepower, it is the bundles of lasers, autocannons, and other weapons in the
arm pods that make the Daishi most fearsome. Slow but lethal, the Daishi is an
assault 'Mech in the purest sense, able to wade through almost any defenses.
==Capabilities:==
The main configuration, by far the most common, features an LRM-10 rack in
the left torso. In addition, each arm carries a bundle of death-an Ultra-5
autocannon, two extended-range large lasers, and two medium pulse lasers.
Double heat sinks enable it to handle the heat generated by its multiple laser
weapons.
The most common alternative configuration carries the huge Gauss rifle in
its left arm, along with plenty of ammunition. The right arm holds three large
pulse lasers. Dual Streak SRM-6 racks replace the long-range missile launcher
in the left torso, and an anti-missile system protects the 'Mech against enemy
attacks.
Configuration B has a turret-like assembly on the left shoulder instead of
the missile launcher. This boxy apparatus contains four Ultra-2 autocannons,
with a complicated ammunition feed to the shells stored in the torso below.
The left arm has a pair of medium pulse lasers and a pair of extended-range
particle projection cannons arranged in an X-pattern. Mounted on the right arm
is an LB 10-X autocannon.
==Deployment==
The Daishi is a favorite 'Mech among Clan Smoke Jaguar forces, who have
used it to break through Kurita defenses time and again. According to dubious
but persistent rumors, the Draconis Combine has managed to capture a Daishi
intact. How Inner sphere MechWarriors could seize such a war machine is a
mystery, sort of the defection of a Clan MechWarrior - an impossible act, from
all that we know of these warlike people.
--------------------------------------------------------
Type/Model: Dire Wolf (Scenario Configuration)
Mass: 100 tons
Equipment: Crits Mass
Int. Struct.: 152 pts Standard 0 10.00
Engine: 300 XL Fusion 10 9.50
Walking MP: 3
Running MP: 5
Jumping MP: 3
Heat Sinks: 15 Double [30] 6 5.00
(Heat Sink Loc: 1 LT, 1 RT, 1 LL)
Gyro: 4 3.00
Cockpit, Life Supt., Sensors: 5 3.00
Actuators: L: Sh+UA R: Sh+UA 12 .00
Armor Factor: 304 pts Standard 0 19.00
Internal Armor
Structure Value
Head: 3 9
Center Torso: 31 47
Center Torso (Rear): 14
L/R Side Torso: 21 32/32
L/R Side Torso (Rear): 10/10
L/R Arm: 17 34/34
L/R Leg: 21 41/41
Weapons and Equipment Loc Heat Ammo Crits Mass
--------------------------------------------------------
1 Arrow IV System RA 10 20 16 16.00
(Ammo Locations: 4 RT)
2 Large Pulse Lasers LA 20 4 12.00
1 Flamer LA 3 1 .50
3 SRM 6s LA 12 45 6 7.50
(Ammo Locations: 3 LT)
2 Anti-Missile Systems LA 2 48 4 3.00
(Ammo Locations: 2 LT)
1 ER Medium Laser RT 5 1 1.00
1 Anti-Missile System LT 1 1 .50
1 SRM 6 LT 4 1 1.50
1 ER Medium Laser CT 5 1 1.00
1 Anti-Missile System HD(R) 1 1 .50
2 Anti-Personnel Pods RL 0 2 1.00
3 Standard Jump Jets: 3 6.00
(Jump Jet Loc: 1 LT, 1 RT, 1 CT)
--------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS: 63 78 100.00
Crits & Tons Left: 0 .00
Calculated Factors:
Total Cost: 30,138,750 C-Bills
Battle Value 2: 2,957 (old BV = 2,425)
Cost per BV2: 10,192.34
Weapon Value: 3,127 / 3,127 (Ratio = 1.06 / 1.06)
Damage Factors: SRDmg = 41; MRDmg = 28; LRDmg = 24
BattleForce2: MP: 3J, Armor/Structure: 8/6
Damage PB/M/L: 7/4/2, Overheat: 4
Class: MA; Point Value: 30
Specials: omni
|
ghostrider
03/12/14 04:19 AM
66.27.181.33
|
what cowardly clan mech warrior would willingly put an artillery peice on their mech?
The shear thought of it makes you dezgra.
where it the ingnore button???
|
ATN082268
03/12/14 06:10 AM
69.128.58.222
|
Quote:
ghostrider writes:
what cowardly clan mech warrior would willingly put an artillery peice on their mech?
The shear thought of it makes you dezgra.
where it the ingnore button???
The Clans can and do use Artillery (as it's listed under their avaliable weapons) and even have an OmniMech centered on it called the Naga. Also under certain conditions, such as level 4 rules of engagement, area effect weapons are allowed. I stand by my one 'Mech bid...
|
ghostrider
03/12/14 06:23 AM
66.27.181.33
|
Yes they do. And warriors have refused to pilot the mech when assigned.
Now if you insist, there are a few questions.
How are you going to target anything with the arrow IV?
Plus is it your intention to destroy the whole city with the artillery?
You don't have a forward observer, and no tag.
The a-pods work once. There is no reloading them.
The rest of the weapons load out seems workable, but a bit light.
Now the biggie. You are 3 tons over the pod space.
|
Karagin
03/12/14 06:26 AM
70.118.139.48
|
Leave it to ATN to use a Clan tech 100 tons mech that is min/maxed and no better off then his other 100 ton Clan mechs and oh wait it's the same song and dance with the weapons.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
|
Retry
03/12/14 11:31 AM
72.214.204.166
|
I doubt hell's horses mind artillery in their combined arms tactics.
That said, there is nothing combined arms about this force of one mech, which will get eaten alive by the defense force.
|
KamikazeJohnson
03/14/14 01:54 AM
50.72.218.68
|
Quote:
Retry writes:
I doubt hell's horses mind artillery in their combined arms tactics.
That said, there is nothing combined arms about this force of one mech, which will get eaten alive by the defense force.
Unless he takes enough time to level the entire city (I may have to set a rule against that), any single 'Mech is scrap within a minute of entering the city. Roadblock with Urbies, let the Infantry tear it apart.
Peace is that glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.
--Thomas Jefferson
|
Retry
03/14/14 01:59 AM
76.7.238.202
|
20 arrow rounds, while powerful, won't be enough to blow the entire city to hell by itself.
|
TigerShark
03/14/14 02:06 AM
68.190.197.104
|
Quote:
ATN082268 writes:
The Clans can and do use Artillery (as it's listed under their avaliable weapons) and even have an OmniMech centered on it called the Naga. Also under certain conditions, such as level 4 rules of engagement, area effect weapons are allowed. I stand by my one 'Mech bid...
There is absolutely no rule against using artillery in Clan warfare. In general, anything that happens after the batchall is a part of combat. The CHOICE to fight honorably is up to the individual warrior, his commanding officer and (if a serious violation occurs) his Khan.
It happens that, in general, warriors choose to exhibit their martial skill by engaging in duels. But in larger engagements which are crucial to the survival of the Clan, zellbrigen is very often suspended by the Star Colonel. Such was the case in the Jade Falcon trilogy, when Kael Pershaw employed massed fire and minefields to defend his blood legacy from Clan Wolf.
There is also a very specific mention of the use of artillery in "Wars of Reaving." The Steel Vipers argued that the use of artillery broke the Falcons' bid in their battle. But it wasn't artillery that was the problem; it was that the artillery was NOT part of the initial bid during the batchall. When the battle was lost, the Falcons drew forces from outside of their bid to take the field. The Falcons were accused of using Spheroid-style, total warfare tactics.
That's an important distinction, when artillery use is specifically defended by the Scorpion and Falcon Khans.
A good way to think of it is a boxing match. Two opponents square off, assuming that no kicks, headbutts, elbows, etc. will be used in the match. You will win by using fists alone and with no interference. If one boxer suddenly uses a roundhouse kick against the other, he is in violation of the agreed-upon terms. There's nothing wrong with kicking by itself; it's used in several sports. But in this particular match, both fighters agreed on the terms before the fight began.
|
TigerShark
03/14/14 02:14 AM
68.190.197.104
|
This also goes for other weapons, like stealth technology. Prior to the Wars of Reaving, no piece of tech is specifically forbidden in combat. Stealth tech fell out of favor since it gave an unnatural advantage to the user. Something like bringing a gun to that boxing match; there's no "sport" in it and no honor in winning easily.
This is why Clan warriors tend to bid away weapons against weaker opponents. In a Mech v. Battle Armor duel, they'll bid away long range weaponry and allow the armor to close to a reasonable distance. You might see a Timber Wolf Prime bid away anything but his machine guns and small pulse. Not because his weapons are dishonorable, but because he would gain no honor from dominating an opponent unfairly.
Artillery has this same stigma. Using an Arrow IV homing round means you are relying on outside help to win against an honorable warrior. It's shameful to need another's help to win a duel. Now this also depends on the bidding terms of the battle and type of "duel" the warriors are engaged in. Unless there's a specific, vocal challenge, a Warrior may choose to just defeat his target by any means possible. That means TAG and Arrow IV, since vehicles were part of the original bid. He beat a Wolf warrior and destroyed a few vees. Didn't win any specific challenges between warriors, but the Clan was glorified through his deeds. So everyone "wins" in the end.
|
ghostrider
03/14/14 04:39 AM
66.27.181.33
|
Pershaw was a coward. He had the forces with him to fight fairly and still used the massed artillery from outside the combat arena. He also covered it up to avoid the embarrassment that would go with it.
Kael himself issued the challenge, and broke it. There was no honor about it. It was a lowly assassination of Ulric.
They find Vlad ward in rubble from that attack and he used it to fight Pershaw.
When they did, they were told the battle happened elsewhere.
But you are right. It is up to the warrior to decide what they find as honorable.
I have not read wars of reaving yet, so don't know anything about it.
|
Karagin
03/14/14 11:26 AM
70.118.139.48
|
There is nothing to really read about the Wars of Reaving, it's a sourcebook material only no novels nothing really to support it.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
|