Karagin
11/02/01 04:33 PM
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I have countered your pionts and you keep repeating your line of thinking as if it is fact, which it is not.
So give me your lovely set of four trash cans and on Monday let's see what happens.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Bob_Richter
11/02/01 04:41 PM
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>>>you are forgeting that they have less areas to spread the damage out and avoid
taking hits that will kill them like mechs do.<<<
spreading out hits is a bad thing to count on (re: my Enforcer.) As it stands, vehicles don't need to.
If a vehicle with 60 points of armor on each side and the turret takes a hit from four Gauss Rifles, chances are it survived.
If a 'Mech with 300 points of total armor takes four Gauss Rifle hits, there's a very good chance it was critted in one or more location(s). Another barrage complicates the problem. A third practically guarantees it. To take a fourth would be suicide. (of every six hits, one hits the CT (on the average). out of 18, that's three. A 100 ton 'Mech can usually take that, but can it take more?)
The tank can just turn 90 degrees, rotate its turret, and fight on.
In other words, the tank can make all of its armor work for it, while the 'Mech simply cannot.
And let's not forget that I'm not just talking about TANKS here. I'm talking about VEHICLES. VTOLs will almost never TAKE that series of hits I just described.
-Bob Richter
A dead primate is nobody's ancestor.
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter
Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
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Bob_Richter
11/02/01 04:44 PM
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>>>I have countered your pionts and you keep repeating your line of thinking as if it is fact, which it is not. <<<
You have repeated your nonsense ad nauseum, without even letting my (completely valid) points sink in.
How do you counter the concept that concentrated armor offers an advantage over armor spread thin? I have heard nothing of it.
That a fast-moving vehicle with the arsenal of a 'Mech has a better chance of both survival and of killing the enemy?
Again, I have heard nothing of it.
-Bob Richter
A dead primate is nobody's ancestor.
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter
Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
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Karagin
11/02/01 04:46 PM
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Now you limit to one type of vehicle...wow...to bad that can't be done to mechs, you know like quads being better the bipeds or three legged mechs being better the bipeds or LAMs being the best of the best....
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Karagin
11/02/01 04:48 PM
63.23.175.251
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And once again you repeat your self and you talk about it being nauseating...
The main point is Bob as written vehicles are not what they should be and yet you keep claiming they are better then mechs...I really must get some of the meds you are on...
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Bob_Richter
11/02/01 04:48 PM
134.121.149.97
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>>>No custom units straight books or are you afraid you will lose fast that way?<<<
Book vehicles are poorly designed. You will meet my conditions for the challenge, or are you afraid that custom vehicles will easily defeat your 'Mechs?
I have stock options, I would just prefer to show you how vehicle design SHOULD be done while simultaneously trashing your tin men.
Model numbers, please.
>>>Battletech like any war game, is a simulation Bob<<<
No it's not. It's a game. It doesn't even come within shouting distance of reality.
>>>are you sure you are uptodate on things?<<<
as up to date as is possible for a civillian with no security clearance. You've undoubtedly seen the 21st Century's super-armored walking tanks that can destroy any non-walking tank without thinking. Yes, this real world experience would no doubt lead you to believe that such was posible in Battletch.
:)
I hope I just made my point. If I didn't, you need to seek psychiatric assistence, and fast!
-Bob Richter
A dead primate is nobody's ancestor.
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter
Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
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Bob_Richter
11/02/01 04:50 PM
134.121.149.97
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Karagin, this discussion is over.
Please stop insulting me. It really doesn't reflect well on you.
-Bob Richter
A dead primate is nobody's ancestor.
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter
Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
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Bob_Richter
11/02/01 04:52 PM
134.121.149.97
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There is a hierarchy.
Bipeds are better than quads. (in Battletech. The reverse would be true in real life.)
LAMs are better than bipeds.
Omnimechs are better than non-Omni 'Mechs....though not significantly so.
Tracked vehicles are the bottom of the totem poll when it comes to vehicles....but they can still do quite a bit of damage.
-Bob Richter
A dead primate is nobody's ancestor.
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter
Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
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Karagin
11/02/01 04:54 PM
63.23.175.251
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NO CUSTOMS for the simple fact Bob that to prove your point we should use controlled items hence the BOOK mechs and vehicles. That way neither of us can cry about it later since we both are getting preset items and no one can say the other cheated etc...
Are you afraid to do this with out your tweaked toys? A good warrior or as you claim in all your bravado, taction should be able to use the book units and still when.
My models are the standard one from the given TMs with no changes or tweaking...so either you use standard units or admitted you are in the wrong and we can all go on to new things...
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Bob_Richter
11/02/01 04:54 PM
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No...that doesn't throw my math off.
'Mechs only have eleven locations, but that is enough to dillute their armor painfully.
-Bob Richter
A dead primate is nobody's ancestor.
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter
Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
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Karagin
11/02/01 04:55 PM
63.23.175.251
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It does throw your math off. But I am forgetting you are set on this and nothing anyone says will change that.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Karagin
11/02/01 04:56 PM
63.23.175.251
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Tanks on the bottom? Now I know you are on crack...give it up Bob...give it up.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Bob_Richter
11/02/01 04:56 PM
134.121.149.97
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>>>Bob can't wade his way through basic probability theory<<<
Only if basic probability theory is misapplied (as it was here.)
>>>2) in order to dissaprove his thesis, do we need to dissaprove all of the above points, or is just one enough?<<<
Two should be sufficient, since you can't disprove the third.
-Bob Richter
A dead primate is nobody's ancestor.
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter
Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
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Karagin
11/02/01 04:57 PM
63.23.175.251
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It's over cause you won't admit you are wrong and if I am insulting you then I am sorry.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Karagin
11/02/01 04:59 PM
63.23.175.251
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Misapplied by you Bob.
And disproving one tosses a monkey wrench in all that you are claiming...
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Bob_Richter
11/02/01 05:01 PM
134.121.149.97
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>>>NO CUSTOMS for the simple fact Bob that to prove your point we should use controlled items hence the BOOK mechs and vehicles. That way neither of us
can cry about it later since we both are getting preset items and no one can say the other cheated etc...<<<
MY point was that a properly designed vehicle properly employed was more than a match for a 'Mech. Limiting me to book designs removes my first premise, making your proof to the contrary meaningless, even if it does occur. By removing the ability for me to use customs, you only strengthen my position.
So let me use customs, unless you're afraid?
>>>Are you afraid to do this with out your tweaked toys?<<<
Nope.
>>>My models are the standard one from the given TMs with no changes or tweaking...<<<
All of those 'Mechs appear in at least two separate techincal readouts in different models. It is vital that I know which ones. (so that I can choose appropriate counters.)
Level 1 or Level 2, at least.
(throw me a bone here!)
-Bob Richter
A dead primate is nobody's ancestor.
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter
Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
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Bob_Richter
11/02/01 05:02 PM
134.121.149.97
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I'm not wrong.
You're not sorry.
You know DAMNED WELL you're insulting me.
I'll still fight you, though, the conversation was just a dead-end street.
-Bob Richter
A dead primate is nobody's ancestor.
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter
Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
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Bob_Richter
11/02/01 05:04 PM
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They share all of the disadvantages of vehicles with only two out of the three advantages. That puts them on the bottom, wouldn't you say?
Once again, you have insulted me.
I do not now, nor have I ever made use of any illegal or mind-altering substance. I pride myself on this fact, and would take deep offense at your remark.
Save that only a fool takes offense from a fool.
-Bob Richter
A dead primate is nobody's ancestor.
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter
Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
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Bob_Richter
11/02/01 05:06 PM
134.121.149.97
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Which one would that be?
The....um....armor one?
Nope. A fast-moving vehicle doesn't need to allow itself to be hit.
Oh yeah...the FIREPOWER one?
Nope. Once again, even were the firepower not greater (it is), it would still be sufficient
The speed one?
Well....you can't disprove that. Don't even try.
-Bob Richter
A dead primate is nobody's ancestor.
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter
Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
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Karagin
11/02/01 05:07 PM
63.23.175.251
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No Bob your point was vehicles, all of them, are a major threat to mechs, so using BOOK vehicles would mean your point vaild if you win, but since you can't do that then your whole arguement is proven false since you instist on custom vehicles.
I don't care if you don't like the book vehicles, use them or admit your arugement is based on your bais against vehicles cause you don't like the rules...
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Bob_Richter
11/02/01 05:10 PM
134.121.149.97
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Shut up.
Or at least stop posting a form letter.
-Bob Richter
A dead primate is nobody's ancestor.
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter
Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
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Karagin
11/02/01 05:10 PM
63.23.175.251
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And you have not been insulting? Right I forgot you don't understand off color comments as sarcasm and such...right will file that in the circular file box.
What two disadvantages? They don't have a supesion factor so they are doing ok there, and let's see NO vehicle but a boat or hovercraft can enter water, so tell me Bob what else is going against them?
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Karagin
11/02/01 05:11 PM
63.23.175.251
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Please stop insulting me.
And please take your own advice.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Bob_Richter
11/02/01 05:11 PM
134.121.149.97
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amount of armor on a single location...unless the weapon being used is a good crit-finder...in which case the vehicle's vulnerability to criticals is determined by the HLT and its critical table, and is noticeably high for vehicles.
-Bob Richter
A dead primate is nobody's ancestor.
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter
Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
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Karagin
11/02/01 05:13 PM
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If you say so Bob. If you say so.
No customs then we can do this, if you want customs then find someone else to battle.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Karagin
11/02/01 05:15 PM
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Then in that case SRMs and Cluster Shot will rip your vehicle to scrap.
The loction and lack of them plays a big role Bob. Something you keep forgetting.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Bob_Richter
11/02/01 05:16 PM
134.121.149.97
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>>>And you have not been insulting? <<<
I turned your own insults back on you.
Save one. I have called you a fool, but I do not consider this an insult. It is merely my honest opinion of you.
>>>What two disadvantages?<<<
One disadvantage to other vehicles. Lack of suspension factor.
>>>They don't have a supesion factor so they are doing ok there,<<<
you consider this a GOOD thing?
>>>and let's see NO vehicle but a boat or hovercraft can enter water,
so tell me Bob what else is going against them?<<<
VTOLs don't have to.
Nothing else needs to go against them. They have ALL THE DISADVANTAGES OF OTHER VEHICLES with only the lesser two advantages. Makes them low man on the totem poll, no matter how fried your math SPU is.
:)
-Bob Richter
A dead primate is nobody's ancestor.
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter
Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
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Bob_Richter
11/02/01 05:17 PM
134.121.149.97
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YOU want to prove your point.
You can't do that against book vehicles.
I'll use them, but you can gain nothing through the battle.
Level 1 or level 2?
-Bob Richter
A dead primate is nobody's ancestor.
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter
Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
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Karagin
11/02/01 05:20 PM
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Calling me a fool shows that you are not fully insupport of your own arguement to not warrant calling others names when they point out your flaws and such.
And I list the areas I think you are incorrect in, and you launch of a tirad of insults and nonsense.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Bob_Richter
11/02/01 05:20 PM
134.121.149.97
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Karagin, I have done discussing this with you.
There is only battle.
-Bob Richter
A dead primate is nobody's ancestor.
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter
Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
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