Karagin
02/25/14 09:38 PM
70.118.139.48
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The old running cadence...napalm sticks to ...
Flame weapons are not terror weapons, they are tools. Firestaters are tools. They use something people fear, fire, to remove without a doubt that the attack is willing to burn it all down to win, and that is call psychological warfare.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey
02/25/14 09:57 PM
208.54.38.208
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Quote:
The heroic and freedom-loving forces of the Federated Suns nuked Sarna from 9 billion to 2 billion in a lazy afternoon. Taught those evil Capellans a lesson, right?
But they where Capellans, so that made it totally alright. They where in the way of their rightful masters, aka House Davion, from dominating the rest of the Enter Sphere with an iron fist. As you know it was entirely their fault because they did not bow down beg and grovel as proper slaves to their rightful master.
Why argue if the glass is half full or half empty, when you know someone is going to knock it over and spill it anyways.
I was a Major *pain* before
But I got a promotion.
I am now a General *pain*
Yay for promotions!!!
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Retry
02/26/14 12:23 AM
67.239.109.174
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The person who loses war crime cases tend to be the same people that lose the war.
I'll just leave that here.
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KamikazeJohnson
02/26/14 06:01 PM
50.72.218.68
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Jenner JR7-JM
Mass: 35 tons
Tech Base: Inner Sphere
Chassis Config: Biped
Rules Level: Tournament Legal
Era: Age of War/Star League
Tech Rating/Era Availability: E/E-F-E-A
Production Year: 2750
Cost: 5,771,475 C-Bills
Battle Value: 1,112
Chassis: Unknown Endo-Steel
Power Plant: Unknown 245 Fusion XL Engine
Walking Speed: 75.6 km/h
Maximum Speed: 118.8 km/h
Jump Jets: Unknown
Jump Capacity: 150 meters
Armor: Unknown Standard Armor w/ CASE
Armament:
4 Medium Lasers
1 SRM-4
2 Streak SRM-2s
1 Small Pulse Laser
Manufacturer: Unknown
Primary Factory: Unknown
Communications System: Unknown
Targeting and Tracking System: Unknown
================================================================================
Equipment Type Rating Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Endo-Steel 58 points 2.00
Internal Locations: 3 LT, 4 LA, 3 RA, 2 LL, 2 RL
Engine: XL Fusion Engine 245 6.00
Walking MP: 7
Running MP: 11
Jumping MP: 5 Standard
Jump Jet Locations: 1 CT, 2 LT, 2 RT 2.50
Heat Sinks: Double Heat Sink 10(20) 0.00
Heat Sink Locations: 1 RT
Gyro: Standard 3.00
Cockpit: Standard 3.00
Actuators: L: SH+UA R: SH+UA
Armor: Standard Armor AV - 96 6.00
CASE Locations: 1 RT 0.50
Internal Armor
Structure Factor
Head 3 7
Center Torso 11 15
Center Torso (rear) 4
L/R Torso 8 13
L/R Torso (rear) 3
L/R Arm 6 8
L/R Leg 8 11
================================================================================
Equipment Location Heat Critical Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2 Medium Lasers RA 6 2 2.00
2 Medium Lasers LA 6 2 2.00
Streak SRM-2 RT 2 1 1.50
Streak SRM-2 LT 2 1 1.50
SRM-4 CT 3 1 2.00
Small Pulse Laser HD 2 1 1.00
@SRM-4 (25) RT - 1 1.00
@Streak SRM-2 (50) RT - 1 1.00
Free Critical Slots: 12
BattleForce Statistics
MV S (+0) M (+2) L (+4) E (+6) Wt. Ov Armor: 3 Points: 11
7/3j 4 4 0 0 1 0 Structure: 2
Special Abilities: CASE, SRCH, ES, SEAL, SOA
DESIGN NOTES:
When the FA$A staff were asked why they used FF armour to save half a ton, and
then added CASE to upgrade the Jenner for the TRO: 3050, they replied, "It was
the least we could do."
If any 'Mech deserved better, it's the Jenner. With high heat and too little
armour for its size, the Jenner could use a ittle help to realize its
potential.
As much as I usually hesitate to put an XL Engine on a Light 'Mech designed for
direct combat, in this case it saves 6 tons, a whopping 17% of the 'Mech's
total mass. Another 1.5 tons from Endo Steel, and I had something to work
with.
First thought was to "top up" its jump range, but I thought, "Nah, that's one
of the Jenner's unique features. I'll leave that alone."
Instead, I added a pair of Streak SRM 2s, allowing the Jenner to deal damage
with them while carrying mission-specific ammo for the SRM4. CASE for the ammo
bins in the LT, DHS for better heat control, a SPL just in case it runs into
any infantry, and 2 tons to boost the armour to a more respectable level.
Peace is that glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.
--Thomas Jefferson
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ghostrider
02/26/14 06:38 PM
24.30.128.72
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technically the srms could be useful for anti infantry, but it is a waste of ammo at times.
The use of the streaks is interesting. I would have thought another pair of medium lasers would be worth it. Only jumping while firing all of them would over heat it, without using the srm 4.
Now what would you say about going to the original jenner design with a large laser and 2 medium ones?
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Retry
02/26/14 06:55 PM
67.239.109.174
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SRMs are so good against infantry sometimes I wonder why anyone would bother with MGs.
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Karagin
02/26/14 10:18 PM
70.118.139.48
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Only time SRMs are good against infantry is if you have infernos. Other wise MGs are ALWAYS good against infantry.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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KamikazeJohnson
02/26/14 10:25 PM
50.72.218.68
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Quote:
technically the srms could be useful for anti infantry, but it is a waste of ammo at times.
The use of the streaks is interesting. I would have thought another pair of medium lasers would be worth it. Only jumping while firing all of them would over heat it, without using the srm 4.
Now what would you say about going to the original jenner design with a large laser and 2 medium ones?
Thought about going with more MLs, but it seemed a little boring Effective, but boring.
The Large Laser variant is interesting...something I might try in a fresh design, but too much of a change for me to address it as a Jenner.
Peace is that glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.
--Thomas Jefferson
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ghostrider
02/26/14 10:28 PM
24.30.128.72
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The 3025 tro was the one to suggest the large laser version. Granted, it would not look like a normal jenner, but then most changes would make it look different.
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Karagin
02/27/14 10:24 PM
70.118.139.48
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I like this take on the Jenner.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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ghostrider
02/27/14 11:51 PM
24.30.128.72
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how about make it really interesting. Use 2 lrm 5 packs instead of the streaks with half ton for each.
Really ruin someone day.
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Retry
02/28/14 12:07 AM
67.239.109.174
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SRMs are WAY better at anti-infantry than any other weapon not intended for anti-infantry duties, such as ACs and PPCs and LLs.
And you can fit A LOT and don't need to be at point blank to hit the infantry, so arguably against infantry with heavy support lasers or other long ranged weapons it would in fact be better and safer to use those.
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ghostrider
02/28/14 12:21 AM
24.30.128.72
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well it is true that srm infantry have a range of 6, which means mg's are not going to work.
And being to much to address as a jenner? now you are sounding like the argument over the urbanmech. It is just a weapons variant....
Why does auto speller look wrong on words?
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Retry
02/28/14 12:26 AM
67.239.109.174
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I referred to Karagin, not you.
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Karagin
02/28/14 06:25 AM
70.118.139.48
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Using SRMs Retry to blast infantry in BT is a waste of SRM ammo. There are better things to use against them like MGs or SPLs.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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ghostrider
02/28/14 03:00 PM
24.30.128.72
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Unless they changed the rules, I thought weapons did their full amount of damage to infantry.
If this is still in effect, that means a ppc does 10 points to the infantry. 1d6 is better then the normal 2 (most of the time) but doesn't mean it is the best to kill infantry.
Still. Subject is drifting from the mechs being presented. Pick this up in a thread elsewhere.
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His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey
02/28/14 08:40 PM
172.56.16.136
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Most weapons kill one person no matter how much damage it does. The exemption is weapons like machine guns that do full damage and double damage if the infantry are in the open
Why argue if the glass is half full or half empty, when you know someone is going to knock it over and spill it anyways.
I was a Major *pain* before
But I got a promotion.
I am now a General *pain*
Yay for promotions!!!
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Karagin
02/28/14 10:20 PM
70.118.139.48
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We are talking about what is on the mechs Ghostrider and how some don't like the choices. It's not drifting and really the topics will drift around for the most part.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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ghostrider
02/28/14 11:23 PM
24.30.128.72
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ok. Master rules page 60 says unarmored infantry takes damage equal to the damage value of the weapon. In clear terrain they suffer double damage. page 45 of the Battletech Compendium says the same thing. Page 35 of citytech says infantry take normal damage except in the open, where they take double the damage.
When did they change it so weapons besides mgs and flamers do 1 point of damage?
I have the older books, so it is possible it may be in the newer printings/versions, but would like to know this.
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Karagin
02/28/14 11:34 PM
70.118.139.48
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Tech Manual and other core rule books have changed a lot of things, and the whole idea was to make things easier to follow and use and keep it all together etc...so far not so good at that.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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KamikazeJohnson
03/01/14 12:21 AM
50.72.218.68
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Ostscout OTT-JM
Mass: 35 tons
Tech Base: Inner Sphere
Chassis Config: Biped
Rules Level: Tournament Legal
Era: Succession Wars
Tech Rating/Era Availability: E/X-F-E-A
Production Year: 3050
Cost: 7,773,300 C-Bills
Battle Value: 658
Chassis: Unknown Endo-Steel
Power Plant: Unknown 315 Fusion XL Engine
Walking Speed: 97.2 km/h
Maximum Speed: 151.2 km/h
Jump Jets: Unknown
Jump Capacity: 270 meters
Armor: Unknown Ferro-Fibrous
Armament:
None
Manufacturer: Unknown
Primary Factory: Unknown
Communications System: Unknown
Targeting and Tracking System: Unknown
================================================================================
Equipment Type Rating Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Endo-Steel 58 points 2.00
Internal Locations: 2 LT, 3 RT, 3 LA, 2 RA, 2 LL, 2 RL
Engine: XL Fusion Engine 315 11.00
Walking MP: 9
Running MP: 14
Jumping MP: 9 Standard
Jump Jet Locations: 1 CT, 4 LT, 4 RT 4.50
Heat Sinks: Single Heat Sink 10 0.00
Gyro: Standard 4.00
Cockpit: Standard 3.00
Actuators: L: SH+UA+LA R: SH+UA+LA
Armor: Ferro-Fibrous AV - 107 6.00
Armor Locations: 1 RT, 6 LA, 7 RA
Internal Armor
Structure Factor
Head 3 9
Center Torso 11 15
Center Torso (rear) 5
L/R Torso 8 12
L/R Torso (rear) 4
L/R Arm 6 10
L/R Leg 8 13
================================================================================
Equipment Location Heat Critical Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Anti-Missile System RT 1 1 0.50
Anti-Missile System LT 1 1 0.50
Beagle Active Probe LT 0 2 1.50
TAG CT 0 1 1.00
@Anti-Missile System (12) HD - 1 1.00
Free Critical Slots: 0
BattleForce Statistics
MV S (+0) M (+2) L (+4) E (+6) Wt. Ov Armor: 4 Points: 7
9j 0 0 0 0 1 0 Structure: 2
Special Abilities: AMS, TAG, PRB, RCN, ENE, SRCH, ES, SEAL, SOA
DESIGN NOTES:
The Ostscout. The "useless" 'Mech according to new players, or those who only
play single-map, 2-on-2 'Mech battles. This one took a lot of thought, as I
didn't want to duplicate what I'd done with the Spider. The issue was, how do
I stick to the spirit of a non-combatant 'Mech while still being original,
since the Spider and Ostscout are very similar in spirit?
The official TRO:3050 upgrade was a simple swap-out of the Medium Laser for a
TAG. Useful, but once again, there was so much more that could have been done.
Endo Steel to save 1.5 tons, XL Engine allows the 'Mech's speed to be increased
even more, while still saving another 3.5 tons.
I removed the Hand Actuators, as the graphic clearly shows the Ostscout (like
it's larger cousins) with no hands. Upgrading to 6 tons of Ferro Fibrous
Armour gives near-maximum protection.
I decided to follow the oficial upgrade by removing the Laser for a TAG, but I
also added a Beagle Probe, essential equipment for any scout, and a pair of
Anti-Missile Systems for added protection.
My Ostscout is equipped for both scouting and "spotting", as well as being able
to outrun pretty much anything in order to withdraw and save itself, if
necessary.
Peace is that glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.
--Thomas Jefferson
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ghostrider
03/01/14 01:38 AM
24.30.128.72
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Still haven't seen when they changed the infantry damage rule.
I would think the hands would be a good thing on a scout mech. It would be better to move a branch then have to reposition a mech for a clearer view of the enemy's assets.
I know it sounds like a broken record, but this is one mech that would be good to have an ecm with it. Trying to get the weight for it is the issue.
The anti missile system is a good addition. Granted some of the energy and balistics weapons have better range then lrms, There isn't much you can do about them.
I like the speed and jump range. Get out of harms way quickly.
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His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey
03/01/14 05:24 AM
208.54.38.242
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I'm sorry but I cant see spending just shy of 8 million C-Bills on something where a guy in a 1,000 C-Bill jeep can do the job better because he is not, in a walking mountain that can be spotted miles away (most planets are not one big forest that can conceal a battlemech where ever it might want to go.), makes a great deal of noise because something that is 20+ tons that has a great deal of moving parts because it walks and has metal rubbing against metal is not quiet in the farthest reach of the imagination, and leaves big holes in the ground where it stepped.
That guy in a jeep can conceal that he is in the military, can drive into a town, drive around collecting intel, and drive out without anyone the wiser. Being in a battlemech there is no question in anyone's mind what so ever what you are and what your doing. What, are you going to do park the mech hundreds of miles away, walk to the city, then walk hundreds of miles back to the mech so you can report back?
I have always thought the idea of a battlemech used as a scout as laughable at best. Now lighter faster mechs used as a screening force like a naval destroyer is used that I can see. But as a scout? Not ever!!!
Why argue if the glass is half full or half empty, when you know someone is going to knock it over and spill it anyways.
I was a Major *pain* before
But I got a promotion.
I am now a General *pain*
Yay for promotions!!!
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Retry
03/01/14 09:50 AM
67.239.109.174
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On the flip side, a battlemech's armor should be so thin due to needing to cover lots of surface area that any real hit should go straight through it and hit it's internals.
I think it's safe to say we can discard conventional wisdom for this one.
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Karagin
03/01/14 11:13 AM
70.118.139.48
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Good job with the Ostscout. It fits the role of scout mech well. Like the combo the AMS and the electronics.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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ghostrider
03/01/14 02:53 PM
24.30.128.72
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I agree with part of donkeys arguement. There is times when you can NOT use a jeep for scouting. Granted most the population in these cases are in bio domes and such.
Also, some forces are mech only. Raids are a big thing that may have a mech only force.
They can be dropped from orbit and picked up quicker then other types with the exception of battle armor/elemental armor.
Most mechs have the speed and firepower to get in and out of an area without worrying much about terrain.
Otherwise the use of people for scouts would be the best way to go to scout a static enemy. If you are trying to find one that is moving alot, then no..
With the points of the noise and such, I really don't see how you could make a stealth unit out of mechs or tracked/hover tanks for that fact.
I can see where a new person in some towns would draw attention. Those that everyone knows everyone else. Being alone or in a small group on foot puts you in alot more danger as well.
And alot of these people should be glad planets aren't one big forest. That would make the lrm obsolete big time. It would make the small and medium lasers very popular as well as the ac 10/20.
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Karagin
03/01/14 03:12 PM
70.118.139.48
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Actually Ghostrider, LRMs would not be obsolete on heavy forest world, you are firing at grid cooridnates which means the ground, rocket based artillery would clear patches of ground fast. LRMs could be used to do the same thing. There are ways around the terrain issues.
Mechs can be used as scouts, just as vehicles can, or VTOLs or aerospace fighters etc...
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Retry
03/01/14 03:15 PM
67.239.109.174
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Though weapons like the AC/2 and gauss rifles that are direct fire with minimum ranges would be much less useful in heavy forests. With indirect fire, LRMs not so much.
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KamikazeJohnson
03/01/14 03:30 PM
50.72.218.68
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Quote:
I agree with part of donkeys arguement. There is times when you can NOT use a jeep for scouting. Granted most the population in these cases are in bio domes and such.
Also, some forces are mech only. Raids are a big thing that may have a mech only force.
They can be dropped from orbit and picked up quicker then other types with the exception of battle armor/elemental armor.
Most mechs have the speed and firepower to get in and out of an area without worrying much about terrain.
Otherwise the use of people for scouts would be the best way to go to scout a static enemy. If you are trying to find one that is moving alot, then no..
With the points of the noise and such, I really don't see how you could make a stealth unit out of mechs or tracked/hover tanks for that fact.
I can see where a new person in some towns would draw attention. Those that everyone knows everyone else. Being alone or in a small group on foot puts you in alot more danger as well.
And alot of these people should be glad planets aren't one big forest. That would make the lrm obsolete big time. It would make the small and medium lasers very popular as well as the ac 10/20.
A lot depends on what is meant by "scouting". In Donkey's example of checking out population centers for word of enemy troop movements, ibviously non-military vehicles would be appropriate. Trudging through difficukt terrain to find hidden units? Ok, so maybe VTOLs and Conventional Aurcraft might be superior to 'Mechs for that as well. But, given that this is Battletech where by definition 'Mechs are the unit of choice for most duties, we are more or less forced to accept 'Mechs as Scouts.
OTOH, "forward spotter" is another possible and common task for this type of design, sighting for LRM Indirect Fire, using the TAG to spot for Off-Board Artillery or Semi-Guided Missiles. Thanks to rules that arbitrarily grant superiority to 'Mechs, a 'Mech has the mobility to get into position more easily than other units, plus better ability to survive any hits it might take before being able to withdraw.
As for the price tag...yeah, you get into a 300+ XL Engine, prices get pretty ridiculous. Shows the flaws in the BT cost system.
In response to the other comments, I skipped on the ECM mainly because I didn't want to end up with a 35-ton version of what I did with the Spider (the two designs are awkwardly similar to start with).
Hand Actuators...like I said, both the Ostroc and Ostsol are handless, and the picture in the TRO is handless. (Plus I needed 2 crits for the FF armour...)
Peace is that glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.
--Thomas Jefferson
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ghostrider
03/01/14 04:32 PM
24.30.128.72
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Its an upgrade, as well as some people don't have direct access to all the mechs in the innersphere. If a few seem like each other, well that happens.
It is nice you are trying to keep them from looking like clones.
Effectiveness is what will sell a mech. Still the extra costs might put this one in a specialty catagory.. oh wait it is there already 
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