KamikazeJohnson
03/02/14 08:24 PM
50.72.218.68
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Starting a fresh thread here for the Medium 'Mechs, since the original one is getting way too cumbersome. Please continue to discuss on that thread though 
Just a suggestion: since the current forum engine doesn't seem to support "threaded" discussions properly (like it did when I first joined), it's very helpful if you reply directly to the specific comment you want to respond to, and quote if possible. "That's a great point" isn't a useful response when there's no clues as to what point is being referred to...
Thanks. Just trying to keep the discussion nice and tidy.
Anyway, first Medium 'Mech upgrade coming up momentarily.
Peace is that glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.
--Thomas Jefferson
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KamikazeJohnson
03/02/14 08:31 PM
50.72.218.68
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Assassin ASN-JM
Mass: 40 tons
Tech Base: Inner Sphere
Chassis Config: Biped
Rules Level: Tournament Legal
Era: Succession Wars
Tech Rating/Era Availability: E/X-F-E-A
Production Year: 3050
Cost: 7,386,213 C-Bills
Battle Value: 1,064
Chassis: Unknown Endo-Steel
Power Plant: Unknown 280 Fusion XL Engine
Walking Speed: 75.6 km/h
Maximum Speed: 118.8 km/h
Jump Jets: Unknown
Jump Capacity: 210 meters
Armor: Unknown Standard Armor w/ CASE
Armament:
1 Large Pulse Laser
1 Medium Laser
1 LRM-5
1 SRM-2
Manufacturer: Unknown
Primary Factory: Unknown
Communications System: Unknown
Targeting and Tracking System: Unknown
================================================================================
Equipment Type Rating Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Endo-Steel 67 points 2.00
Internal Locations: 1 HD, 1 CT, 2 LT, 2 RT, 2 LA, 2 RA, 2 LL, 2 RL
Engine: XL Fusion Engine 280 8.00
Walking MP: 7
Running MP: 11
Jumping MP: 7 Standard
Jump Jet Locations: 1 CT, 3 LT, 3 RT 3.50
Heat Sinks: Double Heat Sink 10(20) 0.00
Gyro: Standard 3.00
Cockpit: Standard 3.00
Actuators: L: SH+UA+LA+H R: SH+UA+LA
Armor: Standard Armor AV - 104 6.50
CASE Locations: 1 LT, 1 RT 1.00
Internal Armor
Structure Factor
Head 3 9
Center Torso 12 16
Center Torso (rear) 5
L/R Torso 10 13
L/R Torso (rear) 4
L/R Arm 6 9
L/R Leg 10 11
================================================================================
Equipment Location Heat Critical Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Medium Laser RA 3 1 1.00
Large Pulse Laser LA 10 2 7.00
LRM-5 RT 2 1 2.00
SRM-2 LT 2 1 1.00
@LRM-5 (24) RT - 1 1.00
@SRM-2 (50) LT - 1 1.00
Free Critical Slots: 12
BattleForce Statistics
MV S (+0) M (+2) L (+4) E (+6) Wt. Ov Armor: 3 Points: 11
7j 2 2 1 0 2 0 Structure: 2
Special Abilities: CASE, SRCH, ES, SEAL, SOA
DESIGN NOTES:
Looking through the TRO:3050, I award the Assassin the Silver Medal in the
Worst Upgrade Competition. Fluff explanations aside, the official upgrade is
truly cringe-worthy, being one of the few upgrades to actually make the 'Mech
worse.
Aside from not using Endo Steel or even Ferro-Fibrous to save tonnage, the
"upgrade" removes not only 1/3 of the Assassin's total firepower, but also
eliminates the option of carrying highly useful Inferno rounds by removing the
SRM 2 completely. If that wasn't bad enough, the saved tonnage was wasted:
Artemis IV for the LRM 5, providing a negligible increase in performance;
replacing the Medium Laser with a Pulse Laser for almost no net benefit at the
cost of 1 ton and one heat.
I was never really impressed with the Assassin. While it's speed and the LRM
make it highly versatile, its total firepower is laughable, leaving it with the
highly specialized role of hunting down vunerable support vehicles (troop
transports, Mobile HQ, etc.) or finishing off badly damaged units trying to
withdraw.
Admittedly, there's little that can be done for the Assassin as a field refit.
Even upgrading to Ferro Fibrous armour only frees up 1/2 ton, which would be
best spent on increasing the armour. IN fact, with the Assassin's speed, the
best refit would probably be to drop the LRM, rather than the SRM, in order to
improve the remaining weapons.
However, this upgrade series if for new production models, allowing the use of
the best tech available in 3050. Endo Steel is the obvious start, and with 40%
of its tonnage being used for its 280 Engine, coupled with its fringe-combat
role, the Assassin is also a natural candidate for an XL Engine, saving an
additional 8 tons. My first thought was to upgrade the SRM either to a Streak
or to a larger rack, but I decided to leave it alone...Infernos are a
tremendous asset for its primary role. Instead, I gave it a serious primary
weapon: a Large Pulse Laser in the Left Arm, allocating the remaining tonnage
to improve the 'Mech's notoriously light armour.
I chose the LPL primarily because of the Assassin's speed and jump range. It
should have little difficulty closing to Short or Medium Range, and the Pulse
Laser's accuracy helps counter the targeting difficulties associated with Jump
movement.
Peace is that glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.
--Thomas Jefferson
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Retry
03/02/14 08:34 PM
67.239.109.174
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It's the perfect canidate for the LPL.
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Karagin
03/02/14 08:35 PM
70.118.139.48
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On the Assassin, why did you skip on going with the Streak SRM2?
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Retry
03/02/14 08:37 PM
67.239.109.174
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He did say why...
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Retry
03/02/14 08:38 PM
67.239.109.174
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"My first thought was to upgrade the SRM either to a Streak
or to a larger rack, but I decided to leave it alone...Infernos are a
tremendous asset for its primary role."
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KamikazeJohnson
03/02/14 08:42 PM
50.72.218.68
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Quote:
On the Assassin, why did you skip on going with the Streak SRM2?
Infernos.
Peace is that glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.
--Thomas Jefferson
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Karagin
03/02/14 08:44 PM
70.118.139.48
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Thank you KJ. Infernos are great, but the risk of them getting hit not so good of an idea to be carrying them. Does CASE contain Infernos going off?
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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KamikazeJohnson
03/02/14 09:00 PM
50.72.218.68
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Quote:
Thank you KJ. Infernos are great, but the risk of them getting hit not so good of an idea to be carrying them. Does CASE contain Infernos going off?
I would guess "yes" by omission...to my knowledge, the rules don't list Infernos as an exception to the basic effect of CASE, which forces me to assume that they are contained. Unless Tac Ops has something to say about it?
OTOH, the 'Mech doesn't have to carry infernos, it's simply one option not available to the Streak launcher.
Peace is that glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.
--Thomas Jefferson
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ghostrider
03/02/14 09:01 PM
24.30.128.72
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there is alwasy the option of dumping the ammo when things get dicey.
The sad thing is, drop the laser and put an ac 5 on, and you got a fast shadow hawk.
Best I could figure it make it a long range mech, or a short range mech. It tries to do so much with the light weapons it has.
Maybe drop the lrms for more medium to short range weapons. Get in, hit and get out sort of thing.. It is an assassin, not a potshotter mech...
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Retry
03/02/14 09:05 PM
67.239.109.174
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The LPL as it's main gun by default makes the mech a short ranged one.
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KamikazeJohnson
03/02/14 09:07 PM
50.72.218.68
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Quote:
there is alwasy the option of dumping the ammo when things get dicey.
The sad thing is, drop the laser and put an ac 5 on, and you got a fast shadow hawk.
Best I could figure it make it a long range mech, or a short range mech. It tries to do so much with the light weapons it has.
Maybe drop the lrms for more medium to short range weapons. Get in, hit and get out sort of thing.. It is an assassin, not a potshotter mech...
I actually like the LRM for its role. The small amount of damage may be enough to cripple a vehicle's movement, or inflict a critical hit of a damaged unit limping away from the battle. Certainly enough damage to defeat the back armour of a fleeing Light 'Mech.
Peace is that glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.
--Thomas Jefferson
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Karagin
03/02/14 09:08 PM
70.118.139.48
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For the Assassin are you keeping the original fluff of it being modular in some ways?
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Retry
03/02/14 09:09 PM
67.239.109.174
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If the LRM can launch smoke rounds like a SRM, even better.
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ghostrider
03/02/14 09:10 PM
24.30.128.72
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only innersphere lpl is short ranged. The clan one is almost as far as lrms.
As for the inferno problem. It isn't the explosion that makes them dangerous, its the napalm affect. It would heat the mech and keep it burning like the infernos description says.
My opion would be it would build more heat, since it would be inside the mech, instead of on the armor.
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Retry
03/02/14 09:11 PM
67.239.109.174
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None of these are clan tech so it's the clan one is irrelevant.
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KamikazeJohnson
03/02/14 09:18 PM
50.72.218.68
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Quote:
For the Assassin are you keeping the original fluff of it being modular in some ways?
Never even thought of that. Since none of the original weapon systems have been altered, I suppose it's still applicable.
Have to laugh about the fluff referring to the Assassin's "ample firepower" and "good armor".
Peace is that glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.
--Thomas Jefferson
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Retry
03/02/14 09:19 PM
67.239.109.174
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I was wondering about that, seeing as though it follows up saying it has 4.5 tons of armor.
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ghostrider
03/02/14 09:21 PM
24.30.128.72
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compared to the stinger, it does. How dare you suggest the fluff is wrong? 
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ghostrider
03/02/14 09:22 PM
24.30.128.72
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Hell it beats the original charger as well.
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KamikazeJohnson
03/02/14 10:40 PM
50.72.218.68
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Cicada CDA-JM
Mass: 40 tons
Tech Base: Inner Sphere
Chassis Config: Biped
Rules Level: Tournament Legal
Era: Succession Wars
Tech Rating/Era Availability: E/X-X-E-A
Production Year: 3050
Cost: 8,869,467 C-Bills
Battle Value: 1,053
Chassis: Unknown Endo-Steel
Power Plant: Unknown 320 Fusion XL Engine
Walking Speed: 86.4 km/h
Maximum Speed: 129.6 km/h
Jump Jets: None
Jump Capacity: 0 meters
Armor: Unknown Ferro-Fibrous
Armament:
2 Medium Pulse Lasers
2 Small Pulse Lasers
1 Beagle Active Probe
1 Guardian ECM Suite
2 Anti-Missile Systems
1 C3 Computer (Slave)
Manufacturer: Unknown
Primary Factory: Unknown
Communications System: Unknown
Targeting and Tracking System: Unknown
================================================================================
Equipment Type Rating Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Endo-Steel 67 points 2.00
Internal Locations: 1 LT, 3 RT, 5 LA, 5 RA
Engine: XL Fusion Engine 320 11.50
Walking MP: 8
Running MP: 12
Jumping MP: 0
Heat Sinks: Double Heat Sink 10(20) 0.00
Gyro: Standard 4.00
Cockpit: Standard 3.00
Actuators: L: SH+UA R: SH+UA
Armor: Ferro-Fibrous AV - 134 7.50
Armor Locations: 3 LT, 2 RT, 3 LA, 2 RA, 2 LL, 2 RL
Internal Armor
Structure Factor
Head 3 9
Center Torso 12 17
Center Torso (rear) 6
L/R Torso 10 15
L/R Torso (rear) 5
L/R Arm 6 12
L/R Leg 10 19
================================================================================
Equipment Location Heat Critical Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Medium Pulse Laser RT 4 1 2.00
Guardian ECM Suite RT 0 2 1.50
Anti-Missile System RT 1 1 0.50
Medium Pulse Laser LT 4 1 2.00
Beagle Active Probe LT 0 2 1.50
Anti-Missile System LT 1 1 0.50
C3 Computer (Slave) LT 0 1 1.00
2 Small Pulse Lasers CT 4 2 2.00
@Anti-Missile System (12) HD - 1 1.00
Free Critical Slots: 5
BattleForce Statistics
MV S (+0) M (+2) L (+4) E (+6) Wt. Ov Armor: 4 Points: 11
8 2 2 0 0 2 0 Structure: 2
Special Abilities: PRB, RCN, ECM, AMS, C3S, ENE, MHQ1, SRCH, ES, SEAL, SOA
DESIGN NOTES:
The Cicada. Essentially an overgrown Locust with no advantage other than more
Internal Structure to destroy before losing a section completely. The weapon
selection could be a Locust refit.
In my opinion, the Cicada is far too heavy to move as fast as it does...it
would perform much better at a slower speed or a lower tonnage.
The only way to proceed with an oversized speeder is an XL Engine to save 11
tons. The official upgrade wasted it on a pointless UAC/5 and ammo, when there
were plenty of better options.
I went a completely different route, since the Cicada's speed make it ideal for
close combat. As I've stated before, I have issues with IS Medium Pulse
Lasers, but if a 'Mech is able to control the range at 1, 2, or 4 hexes, they
have their advantages. With that in mind, I replaced all the lasers with Pulse
models, and added an additional SPL.
A C3 Slave computer allows the Cicada to take advantage of its close proximity
to effectively target friendly ranged weapons while making full use of its own
weapons. Beagle Probe because if it's gonna go that fast, it might as well
have some use as a scout.
Finally, DHS to keep the heat under control, more than double the armour
coverage of the original, AMS for protection against incoming missile fire, and
an ECM to mess with enemy electronics.
Overall, not much more direct punch than the original, but much better overall
usefulness.
Peace is that glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.
--Thomas Jefferson
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Karagin
03/02/14 10:43 PM
70.118.139.48
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Your take on the Cicada does give it more uses and the C3 Slave gives it more worth over all.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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ghostrider
03/02/14 10:47 PM
24.30.128.72
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Maybe get a long range energy weapon on it...
Possible slow it down and add more weapons..
With the ecm, it might be good to slow it down and give it a good punch. useful for ambush..
Granted, the c3 means it could rush in and get the short range to hits for the team..
I agree the innersphere pulse lasers are lacking because of the range. I would think ermls or even normal ones would be better.
An option would be tag..
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Retry
03/02/14 10:52 PM
67.239.109.174
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With light fights when you use nothing but hovercrafts, VTOLs, and light mechs, the pulse lasers become incredibly valuable. You realize pretty quickly that the extra range of the standard ML doesn't mean anything if you can't hit your target.
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KamikazeJohnson
03/02/14 10:56 PM
50.72.218.68
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Quote:
Maybe get a long range energy weapon on it...
Possible slow it down and add more weapons..
With the ecm, it might be good to slow it down and give it a good punch. useful for ambush..
Granted, the c3 means it could rush in and get the short range to hits for the team..
I agree the innersphere pulse lasers are lacking because of the range. I would think ermls or even normal ones would be better.
An option would be tag..
Keeping the speed as my commitment to the original concept. Dropping the equipment for a ERLL is an option, but there are plenty of other Mediums with long range abilities.
No ERMLs in 3050.
Peace is that glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.
--Thomas Jefferson
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ghostrider
03/02/14 10:59 PM
24.30.128.72
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it has been my exerience that alot of time you have no choice on what you fight with. It is use what you have NOW, and not wait for another unit.
That works both ways as well. One of the reasons a kick isn't always a good idea. A punch while running means that if you miss, you don't take a header as well as having more of an arc around you.
Technically there isn't much better then strafing runs with fighters or even dropships. But that is besides the point.
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KamikazeJohnson
03/03/14 10:47 AM
50.72.218.68
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Clint CLNT-JM
Mass: 40 tons
Tech Base: Inner Sphere
Chassis Config: Biped
Rules Level: Tournament Legal
Era: Succession Wars
Tech Rating/Era Availability: E/X-F-E-A
Production Year: 3050
Cost: 6,728,680 C-Bills
Battle Value: 1,063
Chassis: Unknown Endo-Steel
Power Plant: Unknown 240 Fusion XL Engine
Walking Speed: 64.8 km/h
Maximum Speed: 97.2 km/h
Jump Jets: Unknown
Jump Capacity: 180 meters
Armor: Unknown Standard Armor w/ CASE
Armament:
1 Ultra AC/5
1 Medium Pulse Laser
2 Medium Lasers
1 Small Pulse Laser
Manufacturer: Unknown
Primary Factory: Unknown
Communications System: Unknown
Targeting and Tracking System: Unknown
================================================================================
Equipment Type Rating Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Endo-Steel 67 points 2.00
Internal Locations: 1 HD, 4 LT, 2 RT, 4 LA, 3 RA
Engine: XL Fusion Engine 240 6.00
Walking MP: 6
Running MP: 9
Jumping MP: 6 Standard
Jump Jet Locations: 1 LT, 1 RT, 2 LL, 2 RL 3.00
Heat Sinks: Double Heat Sink 10(20) 0.00
Heat Sink Locations: 1 RT
Gyro: Standard 3.00
Cockpit: Standard 3.00
Actuators: L: SH+UA+LA+H R: SH+UA+LA
Armor: Standard Armor AV - 120 7.50
CASE Locations: 1 RT 0.50
Internal Armor
Structure Factor
Head 3 9
Center Torso 12 17
Center Torso (rear) 6
L/R Torso 10 14
L/R Torso (rear) 5
L/R Arm 6 10
L/R Leg 10 15
================================================================================
Equipment Location Heat Critical Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ultra AC/5 RA 1 5 9.00
Small Pulse Laser LA 2 1 1.00
Medium Laser LT 3 1 1.00
Medium Laser CT 3 1 1.00
Medium Pulse Laser CT 4 1 2.00
@Ultra AC/5 (20) RT - 1 1.00
Free Critical Slots: 8
BattleForce Statistics
MV S (+0) M (+2) L (+4) E (+6) Wt. Ov Armor: 4 Points: 11
6j 3 3 1 0 2 0 Structure: 2
Special Abilities: CASE, SRCH, ES, SEAL, SOA
DESIGN NOTES
FA$A's love for the AC/5 always mystified me. I'll be one of the first to
insist that the weapon has its uses, but the original TROs put it in many
places where it really didn't belong.
The Clint simply doesn't have the high heat output required to make the AC
desirable in comparison to a PPC or Large Laser, and the sheer size limit's
the Clint's armour to barely more than half of maximum.
While the official upgrade made a very intelligent switch to an ERPPC, that's
the kind of upgrade that makes me twitch; the AC is the Clint's signature
weapon, and changing it alters the character of the 'Mech (in my opinion).
So my goal here is to make the Clint more effective while keeping the AC/5.
Problems to be addressed: moderate offensive potential, poor armour coverage.
Endo Steel saves 2 tons, but that's not enough, so an XL Engine is required.
Upgrade the AC/5 to a Ultra AC/5 to increase ranged damage by about 46%. Add a
Medium Pulse Laser for close-range effectiveness, a Small Pulse Laser for
anti-Infantry, CASE to protect the AC ammo, and 3 additional tons of armour.
Finally, DHS to dissipate the increased heat output.
Still probably not as effective overall as the ERPPC version, but an
improvement.
Peace is that glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.
--Thomas Jefferson
Edited by KamikazeJohnson (03/03/14 10:48 AM)
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ghostrider
03/03/14 03:20 PM
66.27.181.33
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without the argument of going ppc/large laser thing, the biggest issue I can see is the need for more ammo for the ac 5. double fire rate means 10 shots is not enough.
And I think the ac 5 was their love because when the game first came out, it was the ONLY cannon available.
For things like clan challeges, the cannons were great. They could reload without worrying about a campaign. For raids, where your in and out, then ok there.
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KamikazeJohnson
03/03/14 03:57 PM
24.114.41.53
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Quote:
without the argument of going ppc/large laser thing, the biggest issue I can see is the need for more ammo for the ac 5. double fire rate means 10 shots is not enough.
And I think the ac 5 was their love because when the game first came out, it was the ONLY cannon available.
For things like clan challeges, the cannons were great. They could reload without worrying about a campaign. For raids, where your in and out, then ok there.
I was going list a variant that drops the SPL for additional ammo. If it was 60 tons or more, I'd agree the extra ammo would be essential, but at 40 tons, and fast to boot...
I for one don't usually fire in Ultra mode at high to-hit numbers, so those 20 shots should last 12-15 rounds, rather than 10.
If you've looked closely at my designs, you'd see how rarely I leave a 'Mech with less that 15 shots. This one could probably get away with it, but yeah, trading the SPL for more ammo is a very reasonable modification.
Peace is that glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.
--Thomas Jefferson
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ghostrider
03/03/14 04:06 PM
66.27.181.33
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Fast?
Alot of mechs around this weight are 6/9. The cicada would be fast. This is average. Granted the heavy and assault are slow compared to it.
As for getting away, that depends on the mission. I can see where alot of mechs tend to die before using all their ammo, but as you said, this one should be able to keep moving to avoid this fate
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KamikazeJohnson
03/03/14 04:29 PM
24.114.41.53
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Quote:
Fast?
Alot of mechs around this weight are 6/9. The cicada would be fast. This is average. Granted the heavy and assault are slow compared to it.
As for getting away, that depends on the mission. I can see where alot of mechs tend to die before using all their ammo, but as you said, this one should be able to keep moving to avoid this fate
"Fast" in the absolute sense. Compared to a Panther, for example, which has a functionally similar weapon set. While the Panther's job is to stand eith the Archers and Awesomes and contribute from the edge of the fight, the faster Clint (especially with the improved weaponry) is more likely to be switching between close and long-range weaponry. If ammo is more of a consideration than pure survival, the AC may see limited use at close range.
Like I said, I generally build in larger ammo stocks, but I decided to go with the extra gun instead. If Infantry are not expected to be a factor, thr SPL is expendable.
If I was designing for "real" use, nothing would come off my design table with fewer than 50 rounds of ammo, but BT doesn't usually work that was on the gaming table.
Peace is that glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.
--Thomas Jefferson
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His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey
03/03/14 04:59 PM
172.56.9.41
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I have to agree with the others this is not all that fast for a 3050 XL engine design of its weight.
The SPL is not needed because you have a MPL that would be quite affective for anti infantry work.
The ultra AC-5 really needs that extra ammo. Once your out of ammo you don't have to much to fall back on.
Why argue if the glass is half full or half empty, when you know someone is going to knock it over and spill it anyways.
I was a Major *pain* before
But I got a promotion.
I am now a General *pain*
Yay for promotions!!!
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KamikazeJohnson
03/03/14 05:38 PM
24.114.41.53
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Quote:
I have to agree with the others this is not all that fast for a 3050 XL engine design of its weight.
The SPL is not needed because you have a MPL that would be quite affective for anti infantry work.
The ultra AC-5 really needs that extra ammo. Once your out of ammo you don't have to much to fall back on.
MPL does dmg/10 + 2 = 3 dmg. I wouldn't call that "quite effective".
Peace is that glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.
--Thomas Jefferson
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Retry
03/03/14 06:03 PM
67.239.109.174
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MPLs are crap against infantry.
The only time pulse weapons become good against infantry even at larger sizes are Variable Speed Pulse lasers. They still do the 2D6 thing.
The UAC5 needs the ammo. That or you should take a LB-5 X AC instead if possible.
The mech is fast for a medium mech, seeing as it invests a bit into it's jumping ability.
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KamikazeJohnson
03/03/14 07:10 PM
24.114.41.53
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Quote:
The UAC5 needs the ammo. That or you should take a LB-5 X AC instead if possible.
LB 5-X was a bit later. Would actually be my preferred main gun if it was available.
Peace is that glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.
--Thomas Jefferson
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ghostrider
03/03/14 07:37 PM
66.27.181.33
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the change to unarmored infantry damage is stupid. This simple change has made alot of old battles null. More then a few planets would not have changed hands, so the whole basic storyline is thrown into the pot.
And I really don't like lbx cannons. They are for making crits and not really trying to take out a location of armor.
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Retry
03/03/14 07:59 PM
67.239.109.174
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MGs being fluffed as the best anti-infantry weapons ever while being the worst anti-infantry ever was stupid. AKA the "old system"
Maybe the plots should have been a tad smarter?
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KamikazeJohnson
03/03/14 08:20 PM
50.72.218.68
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Quote:
MGs being fluffed as the best anti-infantry weapons ever while being the worst anti-infantry ever was stupid. AKA the "old system"
Maybe the plots should have been a tad smarter?
MGs were always disproportionately good vs. Infantry, but the limited range typically meant they were mostly unnecessary.
I think the current rules for Infantry are warranted and make sense, but I believe they went too far nerfing non-MGs vs Infantry
Peace is that glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.
--Thomas Jefferson
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ghostrider
03/03/14 08:29 PM
66.27.181.33
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discussing this in another thread. comments are great.
It would be nice to see variants of mechs as well as the original upgrades. But worry about that after you get the originals done..
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Karagin
03/03/14 08:43 PM
70.118.139.48
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This version of the Clint offers at lot to work with. Really wish it could fit a Light Gauss Rifle on to it...
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey
03/04/14 11:24 PM
172.56.39.106
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Quote:
Quote:
I have to agree with the others this is not all that fast for a 3050 XL engine design of its weight.
The SPL is not needed because you have a MPL that would be quite affective for anti infantry work.
The ultra AC-5 really needs that extra ammo. Once your out of ammo you don't have to much to fall back on.
MPL does dmg/10 + 2 = 3 dmg. I wouldn't call that "quite effective".
The last I knew all pulse weapons do full damage to infantry and double if the infantry are in the open just as a machine gun does.
Why argue if the glass is half full or half empty, when you know someone is going to knock it over and spill it anyways.
I was a Major *pain* before
But I got a promotion.
I am now a General *pain*
Yay for promotions!!!
|
Retry
03/04/14 11:33 PM
67.239.109.174
|
Nope, the SPL is the only one that behaves like a machine gun.
|
ghostrider
03/04/14 11:40 PM
66.27.181.33
|
They dont want you using lpls to wipe out infantry at range.
I am getting the impression they want infantry to be the kings of the battlefield since most mechs seem to have lost their bite on infantry. Range and speed is the only thing mechs have now.
|
Retry
03/04/14 11:41 PM
67.239.109.174
|
Riiiiiiight
I hereby smite you with my Long Tom Artillery Cannon.
|
ghostrider
03/05/14 12:05 AM
66.27.181.33
|
now that would wipe out infantry. about the only thing that does anymore.
Guess they have become the new roach. Nukes wouldn't do anything to them.
|
Karagin
03/05/14 12:11 AM
70.118.139.48
|
Infernos might...
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
|
ghostrider
03/05/14 12:13 AM
66.27.181.33
|
they didn't pull them out as being too dangerous to everything in the game? That's a shock..
|
Retry
03/05/14 12:21 AM
72.214.204.166
|
Also plasma, bombs, mech mortars, any flechette laden autocannon, inferno srms, frag LRMs, and the standard variety don't do too bad themselves, Flamers, normal arty
|
Karagin
03/05/14 06:52 PM
70.118.139.48
|
So which one is next KJ?
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
|
KamikazeJohnson
03/06/14 09:37 PM
50.72.218.68
|
Hermes II HER-JM
Mass: 40 tons
Tech Base: Inner Sphere
Chassis Config: Biped
Rules Level: Tournament Legal
Era: Succession Wars
Tech Rating/Era Availability: E/X-F-E-A
Production Year: 3050
Cost: 6,945,913 C-Bills
Battle Value: 1,020
Chassis: Unknown Endo-Steel
Power Plant: Unknown 280 Fusion XL Engine
Walking Speed: 75.6 km/h
Maximum Speed: 118.8 km/h
Jump Jets: None
Jump Capacity: 0 meters
Armor: Unknown Ferro-Fibrous w/ CASE
Armament:
1 Ultra AC/5
2 Medium Lasers
1 LRM-5
1 Flamer
Manufacturer: Unknown
Primary Factory: Unknown
Communications System: Unknown
Targeting and Tracking System: Unknown
================================================================================
Equipment Type Rating Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Endo-Steel 67 points 2.00
Internal Locations: 5 LT, 3 RT, 1 LA, 4 RA, 1 LL
Engine: XL Fusion Engine 280 8.00
Walking MP: 7
Running MP: 11
Jumping MP: 0
Heat Sinks: Double Heat Sink 10(20) 0.00
Gyro: Standard 3.00
Cockpit: Standard 3.00
Actuators: L: SH+UA+LA R: SH+UA+LA+H
Armor: Ferro-Fibrous AV - 116 6.50
Armor Locations: 2 CT, 3 LT, 2 RT, 2 LA, 2 RA, 1 LL, 2 RL
CASE Locations: 1 RT 0.50
Internal Armor
Structure Factor
Head 3 9
Center Torso 12 17
Center Torso (rear) 6
L/R Torso 10 13
L/R Torso (rear) 5
L/R Arm 6 11
L/R Leg 10 13
================================================================================
Equipment Location Heat Critical Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Medium Laser RA 3 1 1.00
LRM-5 RA 2 1 2.00
Flamer LA 3 1 1.00
Ultra AC/5 LA 1 5 9.00
Medium Laser LT 3 1 1.00
@Ultra AC/5 (40) RT - 2 2.00
@LRM-5 (24) RT - 1 1.00
Free Critical Slots: 1
BattleForce Statistics
MV S (+0) M (+2) L (+4) E (+6) Wt. Ov Armor: 4 Points: 10
7 2 3 2 0 2 0 Structure: 2
Special Abilities: CASE, SRCH, ES, SEAL, SOA
DESIGN NOTES:
What to do with the Hermes II...
Described by the fluff as a "Heavy Scout", (which seems odd considering the
Autocannon) I decided to stick marginally with that theme by using Endo Steel,
Ferro Fibrous, and XL Engine to save tonnage, and boosting the speed a notch.
As for weapons, upgrade the AC/5 to an Ultra, extra ton of ammo to compensate
for the increased rate of fire. CASE for safety. I decided to augment the
long-range firepower by adding a light LRM, then rounded out the weapons by
adding a second Medium Laser at the cost of 4 points of armour.
DHS weren't really necessary, but there was really no reason not too, and the
'Mech does have a slight overheat in the unlikely event of an Alpha Strike, but
a penny-pinching factory could stick to the old stye with no significant effect
on performance under normal circumstances.
Better than the original, better than the official upgrade, but really still
not something I'd use by choice.
Peace is that glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.
--Thomas Jefferson
|
Karagin
03/06/14 09:51 PM
70.118.139.48
|
I like it. Fast and has decent weapons, the LRMs can do enough to keep the enemy guessing and the other weapons can capitalize on the LRM damage.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
|
Retry
03/06/14 10:59 PM
76.7.238.202
|
It's a LRM/5. It's not going to do much of anything with default ammo. And you aren't going to keep them guessing, after they fire off the first shot you'll know what type of ammo they have.
Best use for it is with smoke ammo or thunder ammo. I don't know if either were available.
This would be a great mech to use on a really hot planet.
|
Karagin
03/06/14 11:04 PM
70.118.139.48
|
Retry it will do enough and then since the mech is not going to be working alone, then it can capitalize on things. Unless of course you think it would be working alone and not with lancemates.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
|
Retry
03/06/14 11:06 PM
76.7.238.202
|
Since it won't be working alone that will be all the more reason to mount smoke ammo and thunder ammo.
|
Karagin
03/06/14 11:25 PM
70.118.139.48
|
Or good old HE warheads.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
|
Retry
03/06/14 11:27 PM
76.7.238.202
|
No, smoke and thunder would be a vastly better way to utilize the LRM5
|
Karagin
03/06/14 11:30 PM
70.118.139.48
|
In your opinion only.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
|
Retry
03/06/14 11:33 PM
76.7.238.202
|
Same to you.
|
Karagin
03/06/14 11:34 PM
70.118.139.48
|
Can't wait to see if you upgrade the original Hermes...
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
|
Retry
03/06/14 11:36 PM
76.7.238.202
|
Seeing as he finished all the lights and moved on the mediums already, it seems unlikely.
|
Retry
03/06/14 11:48 PM
76.7.238.202
|
I think I might do one of these, but with vehicles.
|
ghostrider
03/06/14 11:53 PM
66.27.181.33
|
smoke and thunder lrms? Guess im old fashion because I do not see much use for them unless you are setting up an ambush.
And I thought the hermes was a 40 ton mech.
And I agree with kj. Not something I would want to use.
For 40 tons, it seems to lack alot of punch. Fast though.
|
Retry
03/06/14 11:57 PM
76.7.238.202
|
Thunder LRMs>Mine up a heavy woods or other strategic position that would give your enemy a great advantage on you.
Smoke LRMs>Either you make your own advance harder to hit or help cover your allied mech's advanced.
|
ghostrider
03/07/14 12:00 AM
66.27.181.33
|
I would rather tag the enemy with them taking armor off of them. Or if I'm lucky enough, sending one thru his armor to take out the mech.
Head hits are nice as well.
Mining hexes would be good for an ambush, and smoke only means both sides can't see thru it.
neither is that appealing to me.
Both have a tactical use. Just one I would not see in the case using this mech.
|
Retry
03/07/14 01:10 AM
72.214.204.166
|
I don't believe thunder LRM mines are hidden, so not really good for ambushes. Messing up someone's strategies with well placed mines in the way of where your opponent needs to be is often infinitely more helpful than dealing 1-2 points of damage.
Smoke means it is harder to be hit. Line of sight will not be blocked though unless you have many hexes of it in the way, like woods. Try shooting a smoke round where you will be next turn. If using as a long ranged combatant, you want to keep your distance, thunder LRMs can help. If used as a "heavy scout" you want to be difficult to hit, hence smoke.
Both are much more useful than mere HE rounds, especially for this mech.
|
KamikazeJohnson
03/07/14 10:51 AM
50.72.218.68
|
Quote:
Retry writes:
I don't believe thunder LRM mines are hidden, so not really good for ambushes. Messing up someone's strategies with well placed mines in the way of where your opponent needs to be is often infinitely more helpful than dealing 1-2 points of damage.
Smoke means it is harder to be hit. Line of sight will not be blocked though unless you have many hexes of it in the way, like woods. Try shooting a smoke round where you will be next turn. If using as a long ranged combatant, you want to keep your distance, thunder LRMs can help. If used as a "heavy scout" you want to be difficult to hit, hence smoke.
Both are much more useful than mere HE rounds, especially for this mech.
That flexibility is part of the beauty of LRMs. First, the LRM 5 provides (average) a 60% increase in long-range firepower. Couples with the upgraded AC, you average slightly more than double the punch of the original. Not to mention that with the shamefully light armour carried by even mist Mediums in the original TRO:3025, even an LRM 5 was a significant weapon at range.
Being able to load different ammo types based on the mission and/or to suit pilit preferences is an added bonus. If laying minefields or throwing up a smokescreen are judged to be more valuable in an upcoming fight, the 'Mech can be equipped appropriately without much down time.
Peace is that glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.
--Thomas Jefferson
|
KamikazeJohnson
03/07/14 10:02 PM
50.72.218.68
|
Vulcan VL 2-JM
Mass: 40 tons
Tech Base: Inner Sphere
Chassis Config: Biped
Rules Level: Tournament Legal
Era: Age of War/Star League
Tech Rating/Era Availability: E/E-F-E-A
Production Year: 2750
Cost: 6,747,300 C-Bills
Battle Value: 972
Chassis: Unknown Endo-Steel
Power Plant: Unknown 240 Fusion XL Engine
Walking Speed: 64.8 km/h
Maximum Speed: 97.2 km/h
Jump Jets: Unknown
Jump Capacity: 180 meters
Armor: Unknown Standard Armor w/ CASE
Armament:
1 ER Large Laser
1 Medium Laser
1 Autocannon/2
1 Flamer
2 Machine Guns
Manufacturer: Unknown
Primary Factory: Unknown
Communications System: Unknown
Targeting and Tracking System: Unknown
================================================================================
Equipment Type Rating Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Endo-Steel 67 points 2.00
Internal Locations: 1 HD, 2 LT, 1 RT, 3 LA, 3 RA, 2 LL, 2 RL
Engine: XL Fusion Engine 240 6.00
Walking MP: 6
Running MP: 9
Jumping MP: 6 Standard
Jump Jet Locations: 2 CT, 2 LT, 2 RT 3.00
Heat Sinks: Double Heat Sink 10(20) 0.00
Heat Sink Locations: 1 RT
Gyro: Standard 3.00
Cockpit: Standard 3.00
Actuators: L: SH+UA+LA R: SH+UA+LA
Armor: Standard Armor AV - 104 6.50
CASE Locations: 1 LT, 1 RT 1.00
Internal Armor
Structure Factor
Head 3 9
Center Torso 12 15
Center Torso (rear) 4
L/R Torso 10 13
L/R Torso (rear) 4
L/R Arm 6 9
L/R Leg 10 12
================================================================================
Equipment Location Heat Critical Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Flamer RA 3 1 1.00
2 Machine Guns LA 0 2 1.00
Autocannon/2 RT 1 1 6.00
Medium Laser LT 3 1 1.00
ER Large Laser LT 12 2 5.00
@AC/2 (45) RT - 1 1.00
@MG (1/2) (100) LT - 1 0.50
Free Critical Slots: 9
BattleForce Statistics
MV S (+0) M (+2) L (+4) E (+6) Wt. Ov Armor: 3 Points: 10
6j 2 2 1 0 2 0 Structure: 2
Special Abilities: CASE, SRCH, ES, SEAL, SOA
DESIGN NOTES
Ugh. Getting into a set of 'Mechs that I never liked. A little too fast for
their size (or maybe too big for their speed), crippled firepower due to a
reliance on Autocannons, and far too light on armour.
The TRO:3050 makes the Vulcan much more effective by replacing the anemic AC/2
with a much more potent Large Pulse Laser. However, that same change converts
the Vulcan from a long-range sniper to a close-range brawler.
Starting once again with an XL Engine and Endo Steel, I instead supplemented
the AC/2 with an ER Large Laser. I took care of my biggest pet peeve by
trading half a ton of MG ammo for a secong MG (1 MG, and a FULL ton of ammo?
Really?), added CASE to both side torsos, and beefed up the armour to a more
respectable level.
Only so much you can do with a 40-tonner with an AC/2, but this should be a
more effective sniper.
Peace is that glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.
--Thomas Jefferson
|
ghostrider
03/07/14 10:10 PM
66.27.181.33
|
Doesn't show the casein equipment list, but you could save weight by putting ammo in one torso.
If case is half ton, you could add third mg into the mech.
Or swap for another medium laser.
And I agree with the never liking this mech.
|
KamikazeJohnson
03/07/14 10:28 PM
50.72.218.68
|
Quote:
ghostrider writes:
Doesn't show the casein equipment list, but you could save weight by putting ammo in one torso.
If case is half ton, you could add third mg into the mech.
Or swap for another medium laser.
And I agree with the never liking this mech.
I kept the ammo where it already was. If I did move the ammo, I'd put the extra half-ton into armour...it's still lighter than I'd prefer.
Peace is that glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.
--Thomas Jefferson
|
Karagin
03/08/14 10:24 AM
70.118.139.48
|
CASE is listed in the special abilites section.
Overall a nice improvement over the 3050 take on things.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
|
KamikazeJohnson
03/08/14 07:59 PM
38.108.87.20
|
Quote:
ghostrider writes:
Doesn't show the casein equipment list,
Quote:
Armor: Unknown Standard Armor w/ CASE
Peace is that glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.
--Thomas Jefferson
|
Karagin
03/08/14 08:01 PM
70.118.139.48
|
Looking forward to seeing the Whitworth..
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
|
KamikazeJohnson
03/08/14 08:12 PM
38.108.87.20
|
Quote:
Karagin writes:
Looking forward to seeing the Whitworth..
Next up!
I'm having some concept trouble with that one...so many dbl-LRM machines out there, I'm going to have trouble staying original. Anything I do to it will be against canon, as the Whitworth was apparently out of production in 3050 and I'm doing new production models. I have a couple ideas though, as long as the tonnage works out.
I think you'll love what I do to the P-Hawk...it took me less than 5 minutes and its pretty sweet.
Peace is that glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.
--Thomas Jefferson
|
Karagin
03/08/14 08:15 PM
70.118.139.48
|
I was tinkering with the Whitworth last night. I am waiting to see what you do before I post my take on it. It is one of those mechs that can turn into a clone really easily.
Looking forward to seeing both of them.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
|
ghostrider
03/08/14 11:34 PM
66.27.181.33
|
I believe there is a variant that uses srms.
Then again, you could actually split the lrms into quads. That might break the monotony of keeping exactly canon.
|
KamikazeJohnson
03/09/14 12:59 AM
50.72.218.68
|
Whitworth WTH-JM
Mass: 40 tons
Tech Base: Inner Sphere
Chassis Config: Biped
Rules Level: Tournament Legal
Era: Succession Wars
Tech Rating/Era Availability: E/X-F-E-A
Production Year: 3050
Cost: 4,772,133 C-Bills
Battle Value: 1,046
Chassis: Unknown Endo-Steel
Power Plant: Unknown 160 Fusion XL Engine
Walking Speed: 43.2 km/h
Maximum Speed: 64.8 km/h
Jump Jets: Unknown
Jump Capacity: 120 meters
Armor: Unknown Standard Armor
Armament:
1 Medium Pulse Laser
2 Medium Lasers
6 LRM-5s
Manufacturer: Unknown
Primary Factory: Unknown
Communications System: Unknown
Targeting and Tracking System: Unknown
================================================================================
Equipment Type Rating Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Endo-Steel 67 points 2.00
Internal Locations: 2 CT, 1 LT, 1 RT, 5 LA, 5 RA
Engine: XL Fusion Engine 160 3.00
Walking MP: 4
Running MP: 6
Jumping MP: 4 Standard
Jump Jet Locations: 2 LL, 2 RL 2.00
Heat Sinks: Double Heat Sink 10(20) 0.00
Heat Sink Locations: 1 LT, 1 RT, 1 LA, 1 RA
Gyro: Standard 2.00
Cockpit: Standard 3.00
Actuators: L: SH+UA+LA R: SH+UA+LA
Armor: Standard Armor AV - 128 8.00
Internal Armor
Structure Factor
Head 3 9
Center Torso 12 16
Center Torso (rear) 7
L/R Torso 10 12
L/R Torso (rear) 6
L/R Arm 6 12
L/R Leg 10 18
================================================================================
Equipment Location Heat Critical Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Medium Laser RA 3 1 1.00
Medium Laser LA 3 1 1.00
3 LRM-5s RT 6 3 6.00
3 LRM-5s LT 6 3 6.00
Medium Pulse Laser HD 4 1 2.00
@LRM-5 (48) RT - 2 2.00
@LRM-5 (48) LT - 2 2.00
Free Critical Slots: 0
BattleForce Statistics
MV S (+0) M (+2) L (+4) E (+6) Wt. Ov Armor: 4 Points: 10
4j 3 4 2 0 2 0 Structure: 2
Special Abilities: SRCH, ES, SEAL, SOA, LRM 1/2/2, IF 2
DESIGN NOTES:
The Whitworth was always one of my favourite 'Mechs...kind of an "Archer Lite".
Good supporting fire, decent armour coverage. Slow, but reasonably mobile due
to the Jump Jets. And despite being a long-range specialist, it was better
armed for close range than most 'Mechs its size.
I was highly disappointed when TRO:3050 traded 2 of the MLs for Artemis IV and
left it at that. Not even Ferro Fibrous Armour? Really?
My first thought was to use Endo Steel to add Artemis without sacrificing the
lasers, but that didn't seem like enough of a boost for such a dependable
workhorse. Upgrading to larger missile racks let it too similar to other LRM
machines out there.
I reluctantly went with an XL Engine to save a meager 3 tons, but my preferred
idea still left me light on ammo. However, Ghostrider gave me the idea I
needed...trade the twin LRM 10s for 2 stacks of LRM 5s, saving 2 additional
tons. Add my planned additional pair of LRM 5s and 2 more tons of ammo,
bringing the supply up to 16 shots per rank, and allowing the Whitworth to
carry as many as 4 different types of ammo, giving it incredible versatility on
the battlefield.
Since use of the primary weapon systems now created overheat without movement,
I upgraded to DHS, filling up the remaining crit space.
On a fresh 'Mech design, I would have dropped the Lower Arm Actuators to free
the 2 crits necessary to add CASE to the torsos, but instead I stayed truo to
the original, kept the Actuators, and replaced the Head-mounted ML with a Pulse
model, providing a marginal improvement when engaging inside the LRMs' minimum
range.
Peace is that glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.
--Thomas Jefferson
|
Karagin
03/09/14 01:07 AM
70.118.139.48
|
Nice. Here is what I went with:
With this one I upgraded the LRMs with ArtIV, this increase the accuracy and allows more bang for the money spent. Then went with an XL, it allowed for an increase in speed and jump jets. This I think is a major improvement for the mech as is the use of double heat sinks, Endo and CASE.
Code: BattleMech Technical Readout
Type/Model: Whitworth WTH-9
Tech: Inner Sphere / 3050
Config: Biped BattleMech
Rules: Level 2, Standard design
Mass: 40 tons
Chassis: Whitworth Type I Endo Steel
Power Plant: 200 LTV XL Fusion
Walking Speed: 54.0 km/h
Maximum Speed: 86.4 km/h
Jump Jets: 5 Whitworth Jetlift Standard Jump Jets
Jump Capacity: 150 meters
Armor Type: Durallex Light Standard
Armament:
2 Longbow LRM 10s w/ Artemis IV
3 Intek Medium Lasers
Manufacturer: Whitworth Company
Location: (Unknown)
Communications System: Garret T-14
Targeting & Tracking System: Garret D2j
--------------------------------------------------------
Type/Model: Whitworth WTH-9
Mass: 40 tons
Equipment: Crits Mass
Int. Struct.: 67 pts Endo Steel 14 2.00
(Endo Steel Loc: 3 LA, 2 RA, 2 LT, 2 RT, 1 CT, 2 LL, 2 RL)
Engine: 200 XL Fusion 12 4.50
Walking MP: 5
Running MP: 8
Jumping MP: 5
Heat Sinks: 10 Double [20] 6 .00
(Heat Sink Loc: 1 LA, 1 RA)
Gyro: 4 2.00
Cockpit, Life Supt., Sensors: 5 3.00
Actuators: L: Sh+UA+LA R: Sh+UA+LA 14 .00
Armor Factor: 128 pts Standard 0 8.00
Internal Armor
Structure Value
Head: 3 9
Center Torso: 12 16
Center Torso (Rear): 7
L/R Side Torso: 10 12/12
L/R Side Torso (Rear): 6/6
L/R Arm: 6 12/12
L/R Leg: 10 18/18
Weapons and Equipment Loc Heat Ammo Crits Mass
--------------------------------------------------------
1 LRM 10 w/ Artemis IV LT 4 3 6.00
1 LRM 10 w/ Artemis IV RT 4 24 5 8.00
(Ammo Locations: 1 LT, 1 RT)
1 Medium Laser HD 3 1 1.00
1 Medium Laser RA 3 1 1.00
1 Medium Laser LA 3 1 1.00
CASE Equipment: LT RT 2 1.00
5 Standard Jump Jets: 5 2.50
(Jump Jet Loc: 2 LT, 2 RT, 1 CT)
--------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS: 17 73 40.00
Crits & Tons Left: 5 .00
Calculated Factors:
Total Cost: 6,058,266 C-Bills
Battle Value 2: 1,200 (old BV = 1,110)
Cost per BV2: 5,048.56
Weapon Value: 921 / 837 (Ratio = .77 / .70)
Damage Factors: SRDmg = 20; MRDmg = 13; LRDmg = 6
BattleForce2: MP: 5J, Armor/Structure: 3/2
Damage PB/M/L: 3/3/2, Overheat: 0
Class: MM; Point Value: 12
Specials: if
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
|
ghostrider
03/09/14 01:13 AM
66.27.181.33
|
now that, kj, is a fire support mech. Can support up to 6 different mechs with covering fire.
It should satisfy retry with all the ammo bins, for using all the specialized ammo he wants.
I would suspect the enemy seeing it for the first time would crap their pants. Looking like dual lrm 15's.
|
KamikazeJohnson
03/09/14 01:44 AM
50.72.218.68
|
Quote:
ghostrider writes:
now that, kj, is a fire support mech. Can support up to 6 different mechs with covering fire.
It should satisfy retry with all the ammo bins, for using all the specialized ammo he wants.
I would suspect the enemy seeing it for the first time would crap their pants. Looking like dual lrm 15's.
Yup. Regular or NARC ammo for pure fire support; other stuff for more of a "tactical" support role. I had wanted to add a pair of LRM 5s to the pair of 10s, but it left me short a ton for ammo, but this looks like even more fun.
Peace is that glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.
--Thomas Jefferson
|
Retry
03/09/14 01:52 AM
72.214.204.166
|
Now there just needs to be a narc mech coming up.
Oh boy ARAD missile swarm
|
KamikazeJohnson
03/09/14 12:25 PM
50.72.218.68
|
Blackjack BJ-JM
Mass: 45 tons
Tech Base: Inner Sphere
Chassis Config: Biped
Rules Level: Tournament Legal
Era: Succession Wars
Tech Rating/Era Availability: E/X-F-E-A
Production Year: 3050
Cost: 5,779,700 C-Bills
Battle Value: 981
Chassis: Unknown Endo-Steel
Power Plant: Unknown 180 Fusion XL Engine
Walking Speed: 43.2 km/h
Maximum Speed: 64.8 km/h
Jump Jets: Unknown
Jump Capacity: 120 meters
Armor: Unknown Standard Armor
Armament:
4 Medium Lasers
3 Autocannon/2s
Manufacturer: Unknown
Primary Factory: Unknown
Communications System: Unknown
Targeting and Tracking System: Unknown
================================================================================
Equipment Type Rating Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Endo-Steel 75 points 2.50
Internal Locations: 1 HD, 2 LT, 4 RT, 4 LA, 3 RA
Engine: XL Fusion Engine 180 3.50
Walking MP: 4
Running MP: 6
Jumping MP: 4 Standard
Jump Jet Locations: 2 LL, 2 RL 2.00
Heat Sinks: Double Heat Sink 10(20) 0.00
Heat Sink Locations: 2 LT, 1 RT
Gyro: Standard 2.00
Cockpit: Standard 3.00
Actuators: L: SH+UA+LA R: SH+UA+LA
Armor: Standard Armor AV - 144 9.00
Internal Armor
Structure Factor
Head 3 9
Center Torso 14 18
Center Torso (rear) 9
L/R Torso 11 16
L/R Torso (rear) 6
L/R Arm 7 14
L/R Leg 11 18
================================================================================
Equipment Location Heat Critical Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Autocannon/2 RA 1 1 6.00
Medium Laser RA 3 1 1.00
Autocannon/2 LA 1 1 6.00
Medium Laser LA 3 1 1.00
Medium Laser RT 3 1 1.00
Medium Laser LT 3 1 1.00
Autocannon/2 CT 1 1 6.00
@AC/2 (45) CT - 1 1.00
Free Critical Slots: 8
BattleForce Statistics
MV S (+0) M (+2) L (+4) E (+6) Wt. Ov Armor: 5 Points: 10
4j 3 3 1 0 2 0 Structure: 2
Special Abilities: SRCH, ES, SEAL, SOA
DESIGN NOTES:
The less said about the Blackjack, the better. Since the 3050 tech does not
provide an upgrade for the AC/2, there wasn't really much I could do to improve
performance directly without changing the weapon type. (TRO:3050 swaps the
ACs out for ERLLs)
Endo Steel, XL Engine, and DHS saved 6.5 tons, but it didn't feel right to
supplement the long range with en ERLL or LRM 10; on the other hand, stacking
it with even more close-range punch seemed contrary to the 'Mech's
fire-support/sniper/AA role.
I finally decided to make it do what it does, just a little bit better: I threw
on a third AC/2 and a bit more armour.
Peace is that glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.
--Thomas Jefferson
|
Karagin
03/09/14 12:30 PM
70.118.139.48
|
Nice upgrade for 3050 time line, it has the room still for other upgrades when better ACs come along and offers even more when they go to omnis for the chassis
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
|
KamikazeJohnson
03/09/14 01:06 PM
50.72.218.68
|
Hatchetman HCT-JM
Mass: 45 tons
Tech Base: Inner Sphere
Chassis Config: Biped
Rules Level: Tournament Legal
Era: Succession Wars
Tech Rating/Era Availability: E/X-X-E-A
Production Year: 3050
Cost: 8,249,340 C-Bills
Battle Value: 1,323
Chassis: Unknown Endo-Steel
Power Plant: Unknown 225 Fusion XL Engine
Walking Speed: 54.0 km/h (64.8 km/h)
Maximum Speed: 86.4 km/h (97.2 km/h)
Jump Jets: Unknown
Jump Capacity: 150 meters
Armor: Unknown Standard Armor w/ CASE
Armament:
1 LB 10-X AC
3 Medium Lasers
1 Hatchet
Manufacturer: Unknown
Primary Factory: Unknown
Communications System: Unknown
Targeting and Tracking System: Unknown
================================================================================
Equipment Type Rating Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Endo-Steel 75 points 2.50
Internal Locations: 1 HD, 1 LT, 7 LA, 5 RA
Engine: XL Fusion Engine 225 5.00
Walking MP: 5 (6)
Running MP: 8 (9)
Jumping MP: 5 Standard
Jump Jet Locations: 1 CT, 2 LL, 2 RL 2.50
Heat Sinks: Single Heat Sink 10 0.00
Heat Sink Locations: 1 LT
Gyro: Standard 3.00
Cockpit: Standard 3.00
Actuators: L: SH+UA+LA+H R: SH+UA+LA+H
TSM Locations: 6 LT
Armor: Standard Armor AV - 152 9.50
CASE Locations: 1 RT 0.50
Internal Armor
Structure Factor
Head 3 9
Center Torso 14 21
Center Torso (rear) 6
L/R Torso 11 16
L/R Torso (rear) 6
L/R Arm 7 14
L/R Leg 11 22
================================================================================
Equipment Location Heat Critical Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hatchet RA - 3 3.00
Medium Laser LA 3 1 1.00
LB 10-X AC RT 2 6 11.00
Medium Laser LT 3 1 1.00
Medium Laser CT 3 1 1.00
@LB 10-X (Cluster) (10) RT - 1 1.00
@LB 10-X (Slug) (10) RT - 1 1.00
Free Critical Slots: 0
BattleForce Statistics
MV S (+0) M (+2) L (+4) E (+6) Wt. Ov Armor: 5 Points: 13
5j 2 2 1 0 2 1 Structure: 2
Special Abilities: TSM, MEL, CASE, SRCH, ES, SEAL, SOA, FLK 1/1/1
DESIGN NOTES:
The Hatchetman really didn't leave much room for modification, between tonnage
and crit space requirements, especially since the original TRO:3025 didn't mark
the Hatchet as an actual part of the 'Mech; the upgrade needed to devote 3
"found" tons to the physical weapon, which limit freedom for other changes.
Drop the 4 "spare" heat sinks, use XL Engine and Endo Steel (using Endo instead
of Ferro saves a ton over the FA$A version), maximize the armour. I traded the
AC/10 for a LB 10-X, added a much-needed second ton of ammo, moved the ammo to
the RT and added CASE, all identical to the official (except the extra ammo).
Where I differed was the lasers. I added a third laser, same as the official,
but instead of using Medium Pulse Lasers, I stuck with standard MLs, using the
extra tonnage to increase the speed, essential given the Hatchetman's
specialized physical attack. While I'm trying not to move items around, I felt
moving the ML out of the Hatchet arm only made sense, allowing the laser to be
fired while using the physical weapon.
As a final boost, I stuck with Single Heat Sinks, using the resuting overheat
potential to enhance with Triple Strength Myomer, making this Hatchetman
incredibly deadly in close.
Peace is that glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.
--Thomas Jefferson
|
Karagin
03/09/14 01:07 PM
70.118.139.48
|
TSM makes sense on this mech.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
|
KamikazeJohnson
03/09/14 01:12 PM
50.72.218.68
|
Quote:
Karagin writes:
TSM makes sense on this mech.
I always wondered why it didn't use it. Should be a given on a 'Mech that specializes in physicals.
Peace is that glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.
--Thomas Jefferson
|
Karagin
03/09/14 01:14 PM
70.118.139.48
|
I get the feeling that a lot of the 3050 mechs were designs as knee-jerk reactions to the Clans, in that they were built to be as the books says a rush to get new tech out to the front lines, and the same with 3055, it took time for the tech to mature in what work or didn't.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
|
KamikazeJohnson
03/09/14 01:23 PM
50.72.218.68
|
Quote:
Karagin writes:
I get the feeling that a lot of the 3050 mechs were designs as knee-jerk reactions to the Clans, in that they were built to be as the books says a rush to get new tech out to the front lines, and the same with 3055, it took time for the tech to mature in what work or didn't.
Response to the clans, plus the Fourth Succession War. The fluff also talks a lot about 'Mechs being in limited production or out of production, meaning only field refits were possible. Limited availability of tech for certain factions. While that built a nice story, I think it really hurt the popularity of many designs, since some of the upgrades were so unbalanced: one design gets DHS, Endo Steel, and an XL Engine to more than double the effectiveness, while another gets Ferro Fibrous Armour and CASE as its only modification.
Peace is that glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.
--Thomas Jefferson
|
Karagin
03/09/14 02:21 PM
70.118.139.48
|
They should have broken things down more as to what was a factory refit to new tech and what was only a field refit.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
|
ghostrider
03/09/14 03:20 PM
66.27.181.33
|
There was a very limited war between the 4 succession and the clan invasion.
If I recall right, the clans delayed the invasion because of it.
Now remember with all the updates being presented here, and retry brought up the point before, all of this is using things like xl engines and endo steel and ferrous fiber armor. Things that are in short suppy around the innersphere.
That is why alot of the tro 3050 updates are not that much of an upgrade.
It is nice seeing what should have happened, and didn't.
|
KamikazeJohnson
03/09/14 03:33 PM
50.72.218.68
|
Quote:
ghostrider writes:
There was a very limited war between the 4 succession and the clan invasion.
If I recall right, the clans delayed the invasion because of it.
Now remember with all the updates being presented here, and retry brought up the point before, all of this is using things like xl engines and endo steel and ferrous fiber armor. Things that are in short suppy around the innersphere.
That is why alot of the tro 3050 updates are not that much of an upgrade.
It is nice seeing what should have happened, and didn't.
I realize there were "in-universe" reasons for some of the limited changes. I don't mind staying true to the story, as the story is such an integral part of the game. However, in the case of TRO:3050 particularly, I feel that they let the story detract from the game by putting out a bunch of limited upgrades along with a bunch of full redesigns. Especially in light of the fully-tricked-out Clan stuff in the same book.
Probably would have been better (and more profitable!) if they'd put out s book of 4th Succession War, Recovered Tech upgrades, then a book of full upgrades along with the Clan stuff.
My opinion of course
Peace is that glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.
--Thomas Jefferson
|
ghostrider
03/09/14 03:42 PM
66.27.181.33
|
They could have, and did with the limited war, but I don't think they had enough stuff to come up with a full tro style book. They did come up with 2 thin books of the 4th war updates, and a few like that.
Problem is, the price. Most people weren't going to spend 20-30 bucks on what amounted to a double scenario book. Not sure how much it cost to make the book, but I don't think it was as profitable as the larger books.
and as I said, it is nice seeing what should have happened.
|
Karagin
03/09/14 04:32 PM
70.118.139.48
|
Back then the price wasn't that high, not like today where you drop $40 for well what turned out to be 90% copied from the online TRO PDFs...
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
|
ghostrider
03/09/14 04:40 PM
66.27.181.33
|
That was an issue with a few games out. Most of the stuff was spread over x books. Then they combined them into one, and people screamed it wasn't anything new. Now with the internet being soo well used, most people skip the overpriced books and go straight for online information.
Price is relevant to alot of people. The game seemed to be targeted towards kids. Now I don't know about you, but I did not get an allowance. I had to work for the money, and at that time 20 bucks was alot of money. There were other things that needed to be purchased like soda and junk food as well as fast food. Hell, most of the time the only person that could afford to buy the stuff was the one person no one wanted to know.
And as much as people will not like this, overheating a mech that uses ammo, is not a real good idea. Granted it isn't that hot, but once you stop using tsm, cooling down to use your ranged weapons might be difficult.
|
Karagin
03/09/14 05:01 PM
70.118.139.48
|
I had a job from 8th grade on ward, if I got lucky and the parents where feeling generous, they would give my brother and myself $20 for doing the chores and such, but that was a very rare event.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
|
Karagin
03/09/14 05:02 PM
70.118.139.48
|
Though they should have given some thought to certain mechs though, some do work well with field refit kits, others needed full scale rebuilding and that should have been more of a focus for them.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
|
KamikazeJohnson
03/09/14 05:09 PM
50.72.218.68
|
Quote:
ghostrider writes:
And as much as people will not like this, overheating a mech that uses ammo, is not a real good idea. Granted it isn't that hot, but once you stop using tsm, cooling down to use your ranged weapons might be difficult.
Fortunately, activating the TSM is a choice...the 'Mech is perfectly functional with decent heat balance without. But having it installed gives the pilot an option to "power up" before closing to physical attack range. And (in the absence of heat attacks and Engine/HS crits) can easily cool back down by firing only the LB.
Plus, Cluster ammo nicely counteracts the +1 To-Hit modifier at 7 Heat.
If you want to keep it "cold", removing the TSM opens up enough crit space for DHS.
Peace is that glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.
--Thomas Jefferson
|
ghostrider
03/09/14 07:12 PM
66.27.181.33
|
Not saying the tsm is a horrible choice. Actually, as someone pointed out, a great choice for a mech that is expected to do physical combat.
I was pointing out that cooling down after you smashed in your opponents head to go back into ranged mode is a slight problem.
|
Retry
03/09/14 07:15 PM
76.7.238.202
|
Why can't you just use DHS and have half of them inactive when you want to use your TSM.
|
KamikazeJohnson
03/09/14 08:02 PM
50.72.218.68
|
Quote:
Retry writes:
Why can't you just use DHS and have half of them inactive when you want to use your TSM.
Certainly possible if you play with that rule. It's not a rule in TW that Heat Sinks can be turned "on" or "off".
Peace is that glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.
--Thomas Jefferson
|
KamikazeJohnson
03/09/14 08:43 PM
50.72.218.68
|
Quote:
KamikazeJohnson writes:
Quote:
Retry writes:
Why can't you just use DHS and have half of them inactive when you want to use your TSM.
Certainly possible if you play with that rule. It's not a rule in TW that Heat Sinks can be turned "on" or "off".
On the subject of TSM...does it activate/deactivate instantly in the Heat Phase? I.e. can I fire weapons, drive the heat up, and get double Physical damage in the same turn?
Peace is that glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.
--Thomas Jefferson
|
His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey
03/10/14 12:35 AM
208.54.32.176
|
Quote:
Blackjack BJ-JM
Why not go with UAC-2s?
If you went with 2 UAC-2s and not the 3 AC-2s you would free up 4 tons for other use.
Why argue if the glass is half full or half empty, when you know someone is going to knock it over and spill it anyways.
I was a Major *pain* before
But I got a promotion.
I am now a General *pain*
Yay for promotions!!!
|
Retry
03/10/14 12:46 AM
72.214.204.166
|
You cannot use what isn't yet available.
|
KamikazeJohnson
03/10/14 01:43 AM
50.72.218.68
|
Quote:
His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey writes:
Quote:
Blackjack BJ-JM
Why not go with UAC-2s?
If you went with 2 UAC-2s and not the 3 AC-2s you would free up 4 tons for other use.
Fast-forward a few more years, and I'd have more options with this one, but in 3050 there's no upgrade to the AC/2. Luckily only one more 'Mech to come uses it.
Peace is that glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.
--Thomas Jefferson
|
His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey
03/10/14 04:18 AM
208.54.32.176
|
I thought the date on the UAC-2 was 3047 and not 3057. I stand corrected.
Why argue if the glass is half full or half empty, when you know someone is going to knock it over and spill it anyways.
I was a Major *pain* before
But I got a promotion.
I am now a General *pain*
Yay for promotions!!!
|
ghostrider
03/11/14 12:05 AM
66.27.181.33
|
The ultra 5 was the first one. Just like the lbx series was a 10.
I did like the st. ives compact upgrade. Making it dual large lasers.
That isn't saying that is what should have been done here.
|
KamikazeJohnson
03/11/14 12:12 AM
50.72.218.68
|
Quote:
ghostrider writes:
The ultra 5 was the first one. Just like the lbx series was a 10.
I did like the st. ives compact upgrade. Making it dual large lasers.
That isn't saying that is what should have been done here.
The ERLL version is probably a more effective machine overall. In most cases, the AC/2 and its variants belong on tanks, not 'Mechs. I believe there's a tank in the TRO:3026 that carries 3 x AC/2.
Peace is that glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.
--Thomas Jefferson
|
ghostrider
03/11/14 12:14 AM
66.27.181.33
|
its called the pike.
|
ghostrider
03/11/14 12:15 AM
66.27.181.33
|
according to the fluff, it is a vehicle made outside the innersphere. The majistratry of canopus, or something like that. Too lazy to break out with the books right now.
|
Retry
03/11/14 12:17 AM
72.214.204.166
|
2 AC2s would have been sufficient, would have left you with 6 tons to play with.
|
KamikazeJohnson
03/11/14 12:28 AM
50.72.218.68
|
Quote:
Retry writes:
2 AC2s would have been sufficient, would have left you with 6 tons to play with.
The original had 2. I added the third because I had 6 tons and no idea what to do with it lol. I'm going to post a "full upgrade" of this one later, using newer tech, so I can upgrade the ACs.
Peace is that glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.
--Thomas Jefferson
|
Retry
03/11/14 12:33 AM
72.214.204.166
|
Pulsify the lasers maybe. Jump around assaults?
|
KamikazeJohnson
03/11/14 01:51 AM
50.72.218.68
|
Phoenix Hawk PXH-JM
Mass: 45 tons
Tech Base: Inner Sphere
Chassis Config: Biped
Rules Level: Tournament Legal
Era: Succession Wars
Tech Rating/Era Availability: E/X-X-E-A
Production Year: 3050
Cost: 10,591,090 C-Bills
Battle Value: 1,201
Chassis: Unknown Endo-Steel
Power Plant: Unknown 270 Fusion XL Engine
Walking Speed: 64.8 km/h
Maximum Speed: 97.2 km/h
Jump Jets: Unknown
Jump Capacity: 180 meters
Armor: Unknown Standard Armor w/ CASE
Armament:
1 ER Large Laser
2 Medium Lasers
2 Machine Guns
1 Anti-Missile System
1 C3 Computer (Master)
1 Guardian ECM Suite
Manufacturer: Unknown
Primary Factory: Unknown
Communications System: Unknown
Targeting and Tracking System: Unknown
================================================================================
Equipment Type Rating Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Endo-Steel 75 points 2.50
Internal Locations: 6 LA, 4 RA, 2 LL, 2 RL
Engine: XL Fusion Engine 270 7.50
Walking MP: 6
Running MP: 9
Jumping MP: 6 Standard
Jump Jet Locations: 3 LT, 3 RT 3.00
Heat Sinks: Double Heat Sink 11(22) 1.00
Heat Sink Locations: 1 LT
Gyro: Standard 3.00
Cockpit: Standard 3.00
Actuators: L: SH+UA+LA+H R: SH+UA+LA+H
Armor: Standard Armor AV - 128 8.00
CASE Locations: 1 LT 0.50
Internal Armor
Structure Factor
Head 3 6
Center Torso 14 23
Center Torso (rear) 5
L/R Torso 11 18
L/R Torso (rear) 4
L/R Arm 7 10
L/R Leg 11 15
================================================================================
Equipment Location Heat Critical Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Machine Gun RA 0 1 0.50
Medium Laser RA 3 1 1.00
ER Large Laser RA 12 2 5.00
Machine Gun LA 0 1 0.50
Medium Laser LA 3 1 1.00
Anti-Missile System RT 1 1 0.50
C3 Computer (Master) RT 0 5 5.00
Guardian ECM Suite CT 0 2 1.50
@MG (1/2) (100) LT - 1 0.50
@Anti-Missile System (12) LT - 1 1.00
Free Critical Slots: 1
BattleForce Statistics
MV S (+0) M (+2) L (+4) E (+6) Wt. Ov Armor: 4 Points: 12
6j 3 2 1 0 2 0 Structure: 2
Special Abilities: AMS, C3M, TAG, ECM, CASE, MHQ5, SRCH, ES, SEAL, SOA
DESIGN NOTES:
The Phoenix Hawk has always been, IMO, the greatest Mobile Striker in the game.
Somewhat hampered by its heat scale, particularly when jumping, but still,
it's fast, versatile, well-protected, and hard-hitting.
The official upgrade (and the listed variants) are interesting, using Endo
Steel and XL Engine and mounting a pair of ER Large Lasers. I personally find
the resulting heat to be a little extreme, given the P-Hawk's fondness for
Jumping.
I took a totally different approach. Nominating this 'Mech as the Commander of
a Light Lance (Recon, Pursuit, etc.), I geared it up rather than focusing on
boosting its offence.
Nevertheless, upgrading the Large Laser and Heat Sinks (adding an 11th DHS)
gave it a fairly substantial increase in effective, sustainable firepower. I
dropped half of the MG ammo, and added an ECM Suite and AMS for additional
protection, but the defining aspect of this upgrade is the C3 Master unit
residing in its Right Torso. It's ability to co-ordinate the firepower of its
lance, or whatever units are selected to provide supporting fire, make this
P-Hawk a highly valuable part of the battle.
What can I say, I figured it was about time I gave something a C3 Master.
Optionally, it could be traded for a NARC Beacon and ammo.
Peace is that glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.
--Thomas Jefferson
|
Karagin
03/11/14 06:15 AM
70.118.139.48
|
Now this upgrade has the needed set of items that allow the mech to work as part of a team. Well done!
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
|
ghostrider
03/11/14 01:41 PM
66.27.181.33
|
I like it. Now you can have a light lance with full c3 support.
The ecm will help keep this one out of the line of fire.
I know its a stupid question, but does the c3 work as a tag? I see tag listed under the special abilities.
|
KamikazeJohnson
03/11/14 02:00 PM
50.72.218.68
|
Quote:
ghostrider writes:
I like it. Now you can have a light lance with full c3 support.
The ecm will help keep this one out of the line of fire.
I know its a stupid question, but does the c3 work as a tag? I see tag listed under the special abilities.
Yes...I don't have the page reference handy, but in TW under the C3 Master description is says something like "the C3 Master exactly duplicates the caoabilitied of TAG".
Note that refers to C3 MASTER only, not the C3 Slave.
Peace is that glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.
--Thomas Jefferson
|
KamikazeJohnson
03/11/14 11:13 PM
50.72.218.68
|
Vindicator VND-JM
Mass: 45 tons
Tech Base: Inner Sphere
Chassis Config: Biped
Rules Level: Tournament Legal
Era: Succession Wars
Tech Rating/Era Availability: E/X-F-E-A
Production Year: 3050
Cost: 3,715,770 C-Bills
Battle Value: 1,270
Chassis: Unknown Endo-Steel
Power Plant: Unknown 180 Fusion Engine
Walking Speed: 43.2 km/h
Maximum Speed: 64.8 km/h
Jump Jets: Unknown
Jump Capacity: 120 meters
Armor: Unknown Standard Armor w/ CASE
Armament:
1 ER PPC
1 Medium Pulse Laser
2 Medium Lasers
2 LRM-5s
1 Small Pulse Laser
Manufacturer: Unknown
Primary Factory: Unknown
Communications System: Unknown
Targeting and Tracking System: Unknown
================================================================================
Equipment Type Rating Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Endo-Steel 75 points 2.50
Internal Locations: 2 LT, 3 RT, 4 LA, 3 RA, 1 LL, 1 RL
Engine: Fusion Engine 180 7.00
Walking MP: 4
Running MP: 6
Jumping MP: 4 Standard
Jump Jet Locations: 2 CT, 1 LL, 1 RL 2.00
Heat Sinks: Double Heat Sink 12(24) 2.00
Heat Sink Locations: 1 LT, 2 RT, 1 LA, 1 RA
Gyro: Standard 2.00
Cockpit: Standard 3.00
Actuators: L: SH+UA+LA+H R: SH+UA+LA
Armor: Standard Armor AV - 144 9.00
CASE Locations: 1 LT 0.50
Internal Armor
Structure Factor
Head 3 9
Center Torso 14 18
Center Torso (rear) 9
L/R Torso 11 16
L/R Torso (rear) 6
L/R Arm 7 14
L/R Leg 11 18
================================================================================
Equipment Location Heat Critical Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ER PPC RA 15 3 7.00
Small Pulse Laser LA 2 1 1.00
Medium Laser RT 3 1 1.00
2 LRM-5s LT 4 2 4.00
Medium Pulse Laser LT 4 1 2.00
Medium Laser HD 3 1 1.00
@LRM-5 (24) LT - 1 1.00
Free Critical Slots: 4
BattleForce Statistics
MV S (+0) M (+2) L (+4) E (+6) Wt. Ov Armor: 5 Points: 13
4j 3 3 2 0 2 1 Structure: 4
Special Abilities: CASE, SRCH, ES, SEAL, SOA, IF 1
DESIGN NOTES:
The Vindicator is not a 'Mech I've had a lot of experience with, but after
having a close look, I like it. Slow, but tough; well-armoured, wall-armed,
and versatile. Born to brawl with anything in its weight class.
The TRO:3050 upgrade was a decent one, using DHS and dropping one Heat Sink in
order to upgrade the weapons. I took it farther, by removing 3 more Heat Sinks
and using Endo Steel. After upgrading to a Small Pulse Laser and an ERPPC, I
added a second LRM 5 to supplement the existing long-range weapons, and CASE to
protect the ammo.
The rest of the tonnage went to boosting short-range, adding another Medium
Laser and a Medium Pulse Laser, giving it the ability to seriously mix it up in
close, as well as at range.
Peace is that glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.
--Thomas Jefferson
|
ghostrider
03/12/14 04:23 AM
66.27.181.33
|
Was thinking the lrms should be inseperate torsos to avoid losing both if it loses the left torso, but the ammo is in that one.
I don't think it's worth trying to get a second ton of it.
Now for some that like using different ammo for them, this might be the way to do it.
|
KamikazeJohnson
03/12/14 02:25 PM
50.72.218.68
|
Just thinking about some of the specialized equipment like C3, ECM, TAG, NARC Beacon, etc. that might not be appropriate for all uses. Rather than suggesting variants, I'm thinking about setting up selected designs as Omnis, so they can be easily equipped with specialized equipment when needed. But not until after I complete my Project: Upgrade ;-)
Peace is that glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.
--Thomas Jefferson
|
ghostrider
03/12/14 02:49 PM
66.27.181.33
|
It would be good to see some thought out omnis.
I would think atleast 2 speeds in each weight, but that might be excessive.
|
KamikazeJohnson
03/12/14 03:12 PM
24.114.39.81
|
Quote:
ghostrider writes:
It would be good to see some thought out omnis.
I would think atleast 2 speeds in each weight, but that might be excessive.
Hmm...hadn't thought of doing it as a full series (although it sounds like fun).I wad thinking more of building some modularity into a few designs. Such as the Phoenix Hawk I just posted...remove the C3, designate 5 tons Pod Space, and set a few other configurations for that weight.
Peace is that glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.
--Thomas Jefferson
|
ghostrider
03/12/14 10:30 PM
66.27.181.33
|
Remember, the innersphere does have some of it's own omnis. They were kinda rushed, so could use improvements.
|
Karagin
03/13/14 09:09 PM
70.118.139.48
|
Can't wait to see the next one.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
|
Maurer
03/13/14 09:13 PM
142.11.67.185
|
Quote:
KamikazeJohnson writes:
Quote:
Retry writes:
2 AC2s would have been sufficient, would have left you with 6 tons to play with.
The original had 2. I added the third because I had 6 tons and no idea what to do with it lol. I'm going to post a "full upgrade" of this one later, using newer tech, so I can upgrade the ACs.
It would of been better to just do a modification with dual UAC-5's and call it done. Over all better performance, even if it's tight on tonnage.
For your version, I'd switch the third A/C-2 for an LRM-10 and 1 ton of ammo. Not exactly stay true to the original, but does give it more fire support capability.
"Captain! We're completely surrounded on all sides." - Kiff, Futurama
..."Excellent, then we may attack in any direction." - Zapp Brannigan, Futurama
"A fool fights a war on two fronts; only an idiot defends on one." - Fusilier
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