Karagin
02/13/13 06:15 AM
72.178.85.122
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Hey if the party line is what you want to support and take feel free. Thing is the WoB storyline has holes in it, they wanted a reset that was all, it could have been done a lot better and a lot less in the way of pushing people out of the game. The rules are want needs resetting NOT the game history or storyline.
If you like spending money on pages of nonsense and gibberish versus getting a book with information that can be used by both the GM and the players and is a decent read then by all means spend your money on it.
The Clans were over the top, BUT they had the time as far as things go to build their abilites and such, time like in 150 years or so to do these things, NOT a mere 21 years. The Jihad and Comstar are not the same thing. If it was the case then the events of SCORPION would have worked not failed.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Col_Green
02/15/13 12:40 AM
99.9.128.106
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I find myself disagreeing with almost every point you make above. But you are certainly entitled to your opinion as much as I am to mine; it boils down to a question of taste, not of facts within the storyline.
A few points perhaps worth raising:
- I for one positively loved the chaotic news-style presentation style of the Jihad storyline, and I think I'm in the majority camp here. The whole tone of the conflict was set by this chaotic and desperate presentation, which is precisely what made it work for me.
- The Jihad was a uniquely complex affair, unlike the somewhat bland and simplistic conflicts that went down before in BattleTech. When stuff hits the fan across three thousand star systems (!), there is not always an explanation as to why things turn out as they do. YMMV, but I though it a whole lot more believable than the too-clean wars of the pulp fiction BT of the eighties and nineties.
Really, If I need to vent anger about unbelievable crap then I rant about the Clans, and even in their case the Wars of Reaving sourcebook went a long way to soothe my offended feelings.
- You feel the Word of Blake is over the top? Then what do you feel about the Clans? But really, there's scores of nutjobs out there in the real world believing and fighting for all kinds of nonsense. If you multiply that by three thousand inhabited star systems, I can see almost any belief getting a substantial followers base. Every mistake the WoB made - hubris, self-righteousness and spite in particular - is part of our real-world problems today. Nothing there that had to be invented.
Within the BT universe, you also seem to forget that WoB has been around for centuries as ComStar. They had the Jihad coming for 300 years.
This isn't one and the same you are comparing. the CLANS even when there are now two types of CLANS they never left there own agenda...there main goal has always been enslave or peacefully take over the I.S starting with Terra....the W.O.B is and has always been the "dark spot" of Comstar. And the orginal sourcebooks have never "refered" the CLANS in a differant light excpet of the fact they are better tech/warrior's. And for the WHOLE point one thing remains FACT...weather or not you believe in the Jihad or not...what W.O.B does is plain and simple AGAINST THE ARES CONVENTION...and I.S ACCORDS...the plain and simple since the orginal FIRST sourcebook describes it in FULL DETAIL which is WHY NBC is not used within the I.S borders OR CLANS...again from my experiance as soon as the FIRST nuke goes off...W.O.B should have been burnt to the ground based on the VERY first rule sourcebook period...Jiahd goes against it plain and simple...Cray no offense what the Jihad effectivly did was tell the Loyal fan base that they publishers did NOT believe in there system...which is sad you could have had a Timeline that would have made old and new alike return...IMO
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Frabby
02/15/13 04:41 AM
87.164.181.61
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Shrug.
One clarification though: I think you mistakenly believe the Jihad was something the WoB wanted or aimed for. That's clearly not the case.
Instead, the Jihad kinda sorta just happened when ComStar/WoB's weird ideas about the future of the Star League and the Third Transfer didn't come to pass. It was just a complicated situation escalating into a free-for-all due to a series of misunderstandings and accidents, quickly reaching a point of no return.
All that WoB military might was set up to parade before the Star League powers before being set loose against the Clans; when the WoB were told (or so they thought) to stuff it, they tried to impress people with their shiny military toys which escalated into a shooting war. Add in stuff like internal power struggles among the WoB like William Blane being killed by St. Jamais over Tharkad or the Tharkad reactor going boom as an accident instead of by design (and the BC story "Eye of the Beholder") and you got your Jihad, with the WoB and IS suddenly finding themselves fighting without having a clear goal. It didn't help that the IS powers immediately used the chaos to launch attacks on each other as well.
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Karagin
02/15/13 05:09 PM
72.178.85.122
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I think it is you my friend who is mistaken, they wanted things BACK to how they were prior to everyone having all the new tech, why else would they go on their temper tantrum over the IS leaders figuring out that they can't work together for very long? If you believe they were going to hand over all of their stuff to the SL then I have this planet I want to sell you it's called Alderann...
Nice you are quoting a BattleCrops story, something that many of the fans don't have since a lot of us don't want to join a club to get the fiction which was up until someone at FASA/FanPro/WizKids felt that paper novels didn't sell, which meant shelling out more money each month for the privilege of getting the fiction and wait if you submitted stuff they might let it become canon...yeah great idea that. SO really quoting a bit of fiction that is not readily available to all with out the extra club joining is like saying well the secret decoder ring is only available with...everything up until the recent books about the Jihad did not paint ComStar or the WoB in any thing resembling such a gracious and generous group to willingly hand over all of the tech and equipment. It is also convenient that they just happen to have gifts for each house as well. But hey if you like the setting more power to you. Meanwhile some of us don't and still don't like it or how gullible the writers and folks at the different companies owning BT think the fans are to not see we are being played and again they had other options to reset the storyline but really what needs and needed to be fixed are the mechanics of the game not the storyline.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Cray
02/15/13 07:02 PM
97.101.96.171
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what W.O.B does is plain and simple AGAINST THE ARES CONVENTION
The Ares Conventions was renounced by the Inner Sphere 500 years before the Jihad began (the Star League rejected the Ares Convention when fighting the Periphery in the Reunification War) and renounced again 250 years before the Jihad (when the Houses formally tore up the Convention in 2787).
The Reunification War, Star League Civil War, First Succession War, Second Succession War, Third Succession War, Fourth Succession War, Clan Invasion, and all other post-2575 conflicts were "AGAINST THE ARES CONVENTION."
Saying the Jihad violated the Ares Convention is just saying, "The Jihad was fought like most other Inner Sphere conflicts." I mean, geez, even the touchy-feely Third Succession War killed more people in a decade than the Age of War (under the Ares Convention) did in 150 years, simply because the Third Succession War wiped its **** with the Ares Convention and fought a much more brutal style of warfare.
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...and I.S ACCORDS...
Which "accords" are those? There haven't been formal rules of war in force in the Inner Sphere for 500 years.
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the plain and simple since the orginal FIRST sourcebook describes it in FULL DETAIL which is WHY NBC is not used within the I.S borders OR CLANS...
Except when NBC weapons are used in the Inner Sphere. There was only a 150-year period where NBC weapons were rarely used by the Inner Sphere, the Third Succession War.
I mean, geez, WoB didn't even re-start the use of NBC weapons in the modern era. The Capellans used lethal chemical weapons in the Fourth Succession War against the Federated Suns, then the FWL nuked WoB on Gibson (WoB was the target, not vice versa), and then the FedSuns used nukes in the FedCom Civil War.
WoB was late to the game, and it hardly used the majority of weapons. Rather, the FWL splinter state Regulus killed far more people with nukes than WoB during the Jihad.
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again from my experiance as soon as the FIRST nuke goes off...W.O.B should have been burnt to the ground based on the VERY first rule sourcebook period
The Capellan Confederations was not burned to the ground for using chemical weapons in the 3020s, decades before the Jihad.
The Free Worlds League was not burned to the ground for nuking WoB on Gibson, years before the Jihad.
The Federated Suns was not burned to the ground for using multiple nukes during the FedCom Civil War, years before the Jihad.
And did you notice those were all detailed in FASA sourcebooks and novels?
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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Cray
02/15/13 07:06 PM
97.101.96.171
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Quote:
It didn't help that the IS powers immediately used the chaos to launch attacks on each other as well.
It's odd how often people ignore that context. WoB was a little pinprick annoyance for years at the beginning of the Jihad. It didn't start the modern trend of nuclear / bio / chemical weapon use.
There was a lot of other things going on, but the most ardent objectors to the Jihad ignore the other nuclear weapons, the other wars, the other threats and demand that WoB, hardly the worst offender, be singled out.
WoB was singled out, and WoB was "burned to the ground," but that happened as the other issues fell by the wayside and WoB managed to stand out with increasingly aggressive - starting around 3070, years after the "Jihad" began.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
Edited by Cray (02/15/13 07:08 PM)
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Karagin
02/15/13 07:10 PM
72.178.85.122
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Wait hold on the nuke was used by rebels on Gibson against the WoB...unless there has been a retcon since Jim's novel...
Which the nukes or their limited use? They were used yes, but no one was tossing them around like popcorn either and how many got used on Outreach and other worlds? Just saying that things went from hey they used a nuke, to HOLY HELL they used how many in day or week or month on a single planet?
Also things that some forget what kind of nuke got used? Are we talking dirty bombs like WW2 style or cleaner ones like small tactical nukes? Now as to why no one is using neutron bombs is something I wondered about, I mean limited radiation, infrastructure more or less intact, just clean up the dead and move in your new workers...
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Karagin
02/15/13 07:13 PM
72.178.85.122
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Right okay and again they attacked AFTER the WoB used false color attacks to make things look like it was one side or the other who had started the attacks to begin with. Funny HOW that is forgotten by some as well. And since when is a pin-prick of the WoB "gifts" landing on the IS capitals considered not a major attack? Oh right when the PTB say so.
Wait Cray are you saying that the Jihad started earlier then 3070? Since the last actual novel has us coming in 3067...
As for the others ignoring things, it happens, the current enemy is far worse then the last one or one from hundreds of years ago.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Karagin
02/15/13 07:22 PM
72.178.85.122
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The Word of Blake is over the top in terms HOW they got to where they went from minor power, who should have fallen further to way side or gotten asborbed by the FWL to major player. I have pointed out that based on the cost of the mechs as given to us the players there is NO way they could buying things like they did even with help from the FWL. Manpower issues again same as with the money, unless they are breding troops like Kaimions do in SW aka clones, they would NOT have the numbers to man everything they had. Supplies aka food fuel bullets etc...all cost money and need their own transports and escorts but some how the WoB was able to magically have all of this without the added cost of needing to pay for or defend it and when pushed on the matter TPTB answer, like they have always, they had Terra and the Hidden worlds...like that is the only answer needed. Yet given all the power of the FedCom which couldn't wipe out the CapCon the WoB can do all in 21 or so years that they do.
The Clans had 300 or so years to do what they managed to do, and while a bit crazy at times, Protomechs come to mind, and heavyily watered down if one believes the reports that the original playtesting of things caused mechs to be changed etc...things didn't work all that wonderful for the Clans. We didn't see them nuking planets, or utterly wiping out civilian areas, with one exception Turtle Bay, we saw they actually fighting away from the cities and trying to NOT include civilians.
And again the Jihad as you claim was coming for 300 years was not going to happen again it was in the works why did Scorpion fail? Why didn't all of ComStar and the secret bases provide the troops and warships to bring down everything then when it would have caught all of them off guard? And why didn't Focht have these troops to play with on Tyukiad?
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Col_Green
02/15/13 09:05 PM
99.9.128.106
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Yeah I was wondering where Cray was coming from...The Jihad started the conflict of NBC warfare...according to those of us< myself-including> who don't have the <inside> story liek you say you do. The books does in little depth describ the I.S Accords...Ill look for it again and will link the referance once I find it. You have to remeber I don't have any of that other stuff you might have all i have are the core rule books and of course the house rulebooks etc etc...and the latest of books Tact/Starg ops ....but again you talk as tho NBC combat is prevalant before the Jihad? WOW..that is just stunnig...you would say that.....there are many descriptions within the rulebooks of what it truly takes to become and outlaw in BT/MW and one of those i you become a Pirate AS soon as it's found out you use NBC AGAINST civlian population dude. your right about one thing..you can use NBC against military targets which is STILL frowned upon..BUT W.O.B uses it AGAINST the population's not just military targets....sorry and no offense im piror military and im telling you...think about what your saying...I know this is a game system but good lord if you really think they Houses didn't learn FROM those previous succssion wars..then we REALLY are reading differant things...which I again I read the rulebooks published Comstar even the M.I one can't rember the name off head....and you do NOT see any eveidence of a JIHAD...all it goes into is how many people within Comstar want change...
Yeah also I agree with Karagin...Comstar had a big stash of equipment mothballed JUST for something like a Jihad...let me just say that I do understand what it was they INTENTED to do...I'm just saying it is very sad that they would have allowed it to happen the way it did AND in the time frame it took...it goes against everything I know of Fedual system and the laws of how to run a BT/MW campign...
Cray if you say what is true about the orginal developers...then come on man there could have been another way it was done...a better way more appesing to teh fans....just saying..anything then how they did it..I LOVED teh Schems...because I did for one belive Comstar was too string for the play style and teahcing of the orgnial publishings.
P.S I have been drinking and typing...hehe not a good combunation...me thinks!
Edited by Col_Green (02/15/13 09:10 PM)
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Cray
02/15/13 09:29 PM
97.101.96.171
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Quote:
Wait hold on the nuke was used by rebels on Gibson against the WoB...unless there has been a retcon since Jim's novel...
That's what I said: the FWL vs WoB. The FWL citizens of Gibson didn't like WoB and nuked WoB long before WoB whipped out nukes. It wasn't a nuclear strike ordered by the FWL federal government, if that's what you mean, but the Gibsonites weren't "burned to the ground" for their use of a nuclear weapon.
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Also things that some forget what kind of nuke got used? Are we talking dirty bombs like WW2 style or cleaner ones like small tactical nukes?
Per JHS:Terra, BT's nukes are all-fusion weapons with no fissile (or even radioactive, pre-detonation) material, thus producing virtually no fallout unless they're used in ground bursts (where the neutron pulse will temporarily activate soil). Hence WoB's suicidal use of "salted" weapons on Terra (but not previously) was considered abominable and unnecessary, since it didn't bother Stone's Alliance nearly as much as Terrans. Of course, by that point everyone was trying to "burn WoB to the ground" for its actions in the 3070-3076 period.
And then the Regulans took nuking to the next level.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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Cray
02/15/13 10:05 PM
97.101.96.171
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I know this is a game system but good lord if you really think they Houses didn't learn FROM those previous succssion wars..
The Houses DID learn, and they did not use NBC weapons for about 150 years. After 6 generations, they started to forget. The Capellans broke out countless chemical weapons on 1 planet in the Fourth Succession War (see "Warrior" trilogy and the two 4th Succession War Atlases). The FWL used a nuke on Gibson in the late 3050s or early 3060s. The Federated Suns loyalists used 5 nukes against pro-Lyran forces in the FedCom Civil War in the mid-3060s.
If you define WarShip orbital bombardment as a WMD, the Clans (Smoke Jaguar) killed over a million Kuritan civilians in 3050 with a WMD, and Clan Ghost Bear was threatening to kill billions of FRR citizens ("destroy every major city") in 3051 because it couldn't handle rebellions. Again, this is old material: published c1990 in the "Blood of Kerensky" novel trilogy and the Invading Clans Sourcebook.
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Yeah I was wondering where Cray was coming from...The Jihad started the conflict of NBC warfare...
The Jihad did NOT start the modern use of NBC warfare. The Capellans re-started it in the 4th Succession War (which FASA published in the 1980s). Prior to the Jihad, nukes were used in the FWL and Federated Suns (1990s FASA publications). That's not an inside story, that's published information found in novels and sourcebooks for over 20 years in some cases.
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....but again you talk as tho NBC combat is prevalant before the Jihad?
No, NBC combat was not "prevalent" in the 31st Century before the Jihad. But it did happen. Between 3050 and 3067, a total of 6 nuclear weapons were used, and the Capellans used countless chemical weapons on one planet in the 4th Succession War.
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...Comstar had a big stash of equipment mothballed JUST for something like a Jihad...
That cached supply was exhausted by 3052, 15 years before the Jihad and 8 years before WoB even conceived of the anti-Clan Jihad. This is published information in Jihad Secrets, pg11-14.
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...it goes against everything I know of Fedual system and the laws of how to run a BT/MW campign...
Per the 1980s House Sourcebooks, which should be freely downloadable, the FWL, Lyran Commonwealth, and Federated Suns were not very feudal. Over half of the planets of the Federated Suns - according to the original FASA writers - had representative democratic governments. They used nobles to interface with the interstellar government, and might've had parliamentary democracies, but they were not truly feudal - and weren't so even by 1987.
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Cray if you say what is true about the orginal developers...then come on man there could have been another way it was done...a better way more appesing to teh fans....
The problem with "appeasing the fans" is that what a lot of the fans want fixed didn't actually exist, or is out of context. This thread is a typical case. Among the misunderstandings about the BattleTech setting and Jihad:
**WoB didn't suddenly burst into the Inner Sphere with giant legions of cyborg warriors throwing nukes every which way. It took years to reach its peak of Jihad activity.
**For years, WoB was a minor threat compared to the much larger conflicts around the Inner Sphere happening during the Jihad years.
**WoB didn't use nukes wildly (initially).
**WoB didn't start the use of nukes (or other WMDs) in the 31st Century.
**WoB didn't even use the most nukes in the Jihad.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
Edited by Cray (02/15/13 10:11 PM)
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Karagin
02/15/13 10:34 PM
72.178.85.122
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Wait Cray, you still have not answered nor have TPTB the one big question if it took years in planning then how did the minor player jump to the front of the line? Having Terra and the Hidden Worlds doesn't give them everything, nor does the FWL, again logical thinking or rational might be better choice would say that the WoB would have fold into the FWL with in the first 10 years AFTER they broke from ComStar.
Minor threat yes, but it seems hardly logical for them to even amass half of what they did, but wait they did. And you are suggesting that the AMC and the bush wars of the Chaos March region were the start of the Jihad...funny how even that would not account for the uber weapons they had or would be even testing without the Houses getting word of it and no organization is that good at keep secrets. Trust me I work for one who claims OPSEC on everything and fails well before they even utter the warning.
Didn't use nukes right away...funny Outreach seems to be the exception I guess. They didn't use most of them? Well I guess when you add up the numbers no, but it WHERE and WHEN and HOW they used them which counts.
As a fan I simply want things done in a manner that is not so magical and well chessy. I can suppened my belief in a lot of things, I am even willing to say the Jihad could have happen IF the timing was a lot further down the road like say 3132 it starts that would have been better in my opinion. But part of the issue Cray and I see that you are ignoring a lot of what I am posting but that's okay, is that we knew the outcome of the dance prior to anyone getting the chance to dance the dance, since we had WizKids shoe horning their Clicky Tech MWDA stuff into the BT universe.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Karagin
02/15/13 10:47 PM
72.178.85.122
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Also while the WoB did have the ability to cause chaos and war, they had to know that sooner or later one or more of the houses would notice that they were behind it all, and the idea that it took the IS as long as it did seems to be the one part that just doesn't make sense, you keep talking about hindsight and yet it seems that all the cards were given to the WoB and the House Intel groups and such were left with the empty box, which really turns things 180 from the way we seem them acting prior to the last set of novels and moves them into the dunce group of fictional characters.
I think the hindsight issue can be cared back to when FASA flopped and things were in limbo and WizKids entered the picture, that is in my opinion when they semi-muddy water became very muddy and things went out of control and there ability to project the events were lost.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Col_Green
02/16/13 02:20 AM
99.9.128.106
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Wait Cray, you still have not answered nor have TPTB the one big question if it took years in planning then how did the minor player jump to the front of the line? Having Terra and the Hidden Worlds doesn't give them everything, nor does the FWL, again logical thinking or rational might be better choice would say that the WoB would have fold into the FWL with in the first 10 years AFTER they broke from ComStar.
Minor threat yes, but it seems hardly logical for them to even amass half of what they did, but wait they did. And you are suggesting that the AMC and the bush wars of the Chaos March region were the start of the Jihad...funny how even that would not account for the uber weapons they had or would be even testing without the Houses getting word of it and no organization is that good at keep secrets. Trust me I work for one who claims OPSEC on everything and fails well before they even utter the warning.
Didn't use nukes right away...funny Outreach seems to be the exception I guess. They didn't use most of them? Well I guess when you add up the numbers no, but it WHERE and WHEN and HOW they used them which counts.
As a fan I simply want things done in a manner that is not so magical and well chessy. I can suppened my belief in a lot of things, I am even willing to say the Jihad could have happen IF the timing was a lot further down the road like say 3132 it starts that would have been better in my opinion. But part of the issue Cray and I see that you are ignoring a lot of what I am posting but that's okay, is that we knew the outcome of the dance prior to anyone getting the chance to dance the dance, since we had WizKids shoe horning their Clicky Tech MWDA stuff into the BT universe.
This is also somthing else that evades me....runing my little Battlion with support...has a payroll of almost 150 mil a year in BT/MW.....Granted a large portion of Comstar splinterd is says nothing of the there Military might when teh NBC warfare....and this hidden world stuff is a bit abursd....still cray you ill admit you have a good point on the orbital bombardment...but the Lio's Chem's....well they did it within there own house...I have never read of ANY Lio NBC attacks outside of there own House...and I never said a major power could start a NBC war...I'm talking W.O.B who is NOT a house they were a minor power....and became "GOD'S" within a span of lets me fair of 10 years....killing 3/4 of the major powers leadership AND succssor's...THAT alone isn't possiable man...not according to the History I have read...it alwasy seemed to me that during teh Succession wars when a House leader was Assassianed the rest of teh family goes into hidding and then 3-5 years later the current leader dies or surrenders...w/e....but in a span of 5-7 years W.O.B kills that I can count according to timeline...10 MAJOR leaders...what im saying is regardless of how you look at it...Houses do what they do and can get away with in W.O.B is or as far as I know have never been deemed a Major house with in I.S they were more a manufacturing military minor power after they took Terra..there are WAY to many discrepiancy's for what they did and how they did it...the orginal rules again about the ARES convention was a pack made between the houses after the 3rd succession war due to the technoligy collespe....plain and simple and any attacks against star league resources consutues Pirate acion and W.O.B when during the JIHAD DID on many occasions attack Star league non military sites...they nukes entire planets man..and they used more then 6 nukes...I would love to see the NON novel or community of writer's orginal pages in a sourcebook that says and I quote" W.O.b only used 6 nukes during the JIHAD" the destruction alone says and points to MANY MANY more..man..sorry...again I know what the damage of a Nuke can do....I will admite alot of what I write is based on experiance even though I have read teh rule books all this other insider stuff is somthing I don't have..give me a referance of what a player has..BT/MW published sourcebook and I will admit when im wrong 
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Col_Green
02/16/13 02:24 AM
99.9.128.106
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And again sorry for the typo's.....just don't care to use spell checker/grammer..plus I have been drinking all day.
P.S Love the debate about this tho
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csadn
03/01/13 04:59 AM
69.30.99.182
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BT has no time travel, as stated in Strategic Operations pg. 134. The closest thing was an exotic suspended animation effect that happened to one JumpShip.
I know -- I wasn't trying to imply _BT_ had ever jumped-the-shark so badly as to use time-travel (tho' that adventure with the WarShip came annoyingly close); I was laying out *my* rules, one of which is "there is one universe, and one timeline -- deal with it".
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As for Tinfoil Hat Mass Conspiracies, BT's been using them since it was published, like Pre-Schism ComStar's great conspiracy to destroy human civilization, running from c2800 to 3052 and the Minnesota Tribe.
Yes -- and you have no idea how Annoying that is, esp. to someone who studies history, and knows how impossible it is to run a conspiracy for more than a generation or so. (Hint: Old Mafia Saying -- "Three can keep a secret, if two are dead." >:) )
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WoB's 15-year plan to destroy the Clans hardly counts as a tinfoil hat conspiracy. It was a military plan with moderate security success (most of the Houses knew of WoB's military build-up from 3058 to 3067, but hadn't figured out the intended application.) See Jihad Secrets (The Blake Documents), pg11-14, for a complete summary of WoB's simple plans and goals, and what went wrong.
I've perused copies at YOFLGS -- and as someone else pointed out: The idea of declaring war on *THE ENTIRE NON-CLAN INNER SPHERE* in order to get to declaring war on the Clans is the worst kind of unconvincing Idiot Plot ever conceived by a writer.
CF
Oregon: The "Outworlds Alliance" of the United States of America
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Reiter
03/02/13 12:46 AM
142.11.67.185
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And the internet forum war debate over silly points of view continues. Let me solve the Jihad and dark age crap
"No suh, I dun know notting 'bout dhem silly Wobbies and dhem silly sounding dark ages wit dhem cyanobogs and dark colored divisions. So siree sir, I dun know notting 'bout dat craziness!"
/Tom the Cat comedy bit.
End of story. (<-- won a Pulizter for that written work!)
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csadn
03/03/13 04:14 AM
69.30.99.182
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Quote:
And the internet forum war debate over silly points of view continues. Let me solve the Jihad and dark age crap
"No suh, I dun know notting 'bout dhem silly Wobbies and dhem silly sounding dark ages wit dhem cyanobogs and dark colored divisions. So siree sir, I dun know notting 'bout dat craziness!"
/Tom the Cat comedy bit.
End of story. (<-- won a Pulizter for that written work!)
Ten steps ahead of you on that score, at least locally.
Unfortunately, what gets put on the shelves *is* "Wobbies", "dark ages", "chernobogs" (or whatever ), and "dark-colored divisions" (oh, by the way: I had to read that last one again, to make sure you hadn't just committed a *serious* breach of Good Taste... ), as opposed to product which Actually Makes Sense. And then they wonder why the company needs rebooting about every other decade....
And like I said in the subject line: It's a Random Kvetch, nothing more.
CF
Oregon: The "Outworlds Alliance" of the United States of America
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