Cray
06/20/18 07:21 PM
97.101.136.19
|
Quote:
Hidden world could have been established by Clan Wolverine … they could have established an egalitarian education system ….
They could've, but Clan Wolverine had nothing to do with ComStar or the hidden worlds. That was only a false rumor designed to bring the Clans into the Jihad against WoB.
Quote:
(You do realise that when you are talking about a state sanctioned program of destroying a child’s bond with parent and a parents bond with their child you take the state’s identity straight back of that of being a “Duck” again?)
This discussion is headed in that emotional-gets-locked-down direction again.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
|
Requiem
06/21/18 06:10 AM
58.175.193.140
|
I am unable to find a note in regard to the percentage difference between true and free born, the closest to it would be, I believe, population Estimates by Castes indicate that warriors make up 0.01% of the total Population of Clans (The Clans Warriors of Kerensky Pg. 34) , therefore we can say the trueborn represent a very low percentage of the total Clan population – say no more than 2% (my guess-timation be free to argue this).
The remaining 98% (again approx.) are free born.
Therefore 98% of the population must deal with the issue of fostering of their children … this must be considered with regards to my alt. history of a hidden partisan force within the clans that may assist Operation Serpent in an all-out Clan Civil War (Trueborn Vs. Freborn) …. The partisans also operate from a hidden world (set up by Clan Wolverine before they left for parts unknown) …. which also includes weapons production facilities (which they intend to use when the war starts) …so basically …
My rough draft of Operation Serpent … (very rough … OK?)
Operation Serpent arrives in Clan Space – attacks the clan’s capitol world, as well as raids through-out Clan Space, designed to cripple as much as possible;
Clans retaliate –Operation Serpent now find themselves in tactical trouble;
Operation Serpent saved by “Dark Caste” (in reality partisans) and taken to their “Hidden world”, which is used as their hidden base from which to lunch the ongoing civil war;
Partisans launch a wide ranging assault upon all Clan’s military ammunition / spare parts / production facilities etc
After ? years and the introduction of many other plots the True Born are defeated – All Eugenics facilities et al are destroyed ….
As for the issue of a Clan Warrior’s bloodname, with the conclusion of the war every citizen will be given their true family name back … however for the trueborns they will be stripped of their bloodnames and these names will be banned for any surviving truborn warriors and their freeborn children (if they have any) for all eternity ….
The problem of assigning family names … can we assume that either the IS or the Clans retained all /most of the military records of those who were within the SLDF (and those wo went with the exodus) …. The military today includes a DNA profile of each soldier (so that in the event the body cannot be visually recognisable its DNA can still provide a result) … so why can’t a computer scan a current Clan’s persons DNA against the historical DNA records and provide a closest match …. hence a family name.
As for giving up their last names …. Yes, Yes I will give that up my last name or me and my entire family will be put against a wall – Remember what atrocities Nicholas was willing to do to make sure his “dream” of the Clans became a reality at this stage …. Agreement via the gun!
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
|
ghostrider
06/21/18 12:16 PM
66.74.61.223
|
Where does it say the Wolverines have a hidden world?
I find that odd in or close to clanspace. The other clans would be thoroughly searching other systems for resources, including habitable worlds.
I know this is an alternative, but the discussion seems to be based on a few things that in the canon writing, just doesn't exist.
It does leave a very big hole in the reality of the game. There just happened to be a world the clans have not found, and it is completely filled with industries and such to fight and defeat all the clans still left at the time of serpent.
This goes to the issues said about the companies writers.
And the most unbelievable is they have all the stocks and equipment to defeat the other clans there. One world producing, as well as harvesting enough to do so is really pushing it.
Why did the Wolverines bother with this 'hidden' world?
Where did they get the resources to even set it up?
How did the other clans never find anything within even a couple of jumps?
And remember the saying. One man with a gun can control 100 without. What does a mech do with this saying. But then the clans are not that bad. The Falcons learned from their mistake.
If a civil war was brewing, it would be at a later time. The invasion gave hope to those in the home world to be off them and in the paradise worlds of the IS.
False hope and false promises? Probably.
|
Requiem
06/22/18 01:57 AM
58.175.193.140
|
It is not written anywhere that the Wolverines have a hidden world …. this is my Alt. History … how to make an engaging story that could be enjoyed by all
As for it being a habitable world they are alternatives to this …. Why not like Camelot Command … hidden within an even larger dark nebular …. Multiple bases all working together for a common cause …. OR …. Why not a hidden facility built deep into a dead moon … multiple chambers …. Multiple factories etc ….it does not have to be a habitable world … though if it was would this be so wrong ….case in point, WOB and ComStar they were able to actively hide multiple worlds (and Warships) from the Great Houses for the same time period so why cannot the Wolverines and their partisans be able reproduce the same effect? It appears to be a bit of a double standard … yes the Wolverines conducted in the search and they discovered something of interest … however, at the same time Nicholas’s actions within the Pentagon Worlds were becoming severely disturbing them to the point that they thought they had another Amaris on their hands. Would they not then take steps to safeguard the humanity as per their original oaths taken when they entered the original SLDF (before they entered the exodus) …. ie. They remember who they are, SLDF personnel and what this means – as per Alexanders’ dream – and they move to safeguard the original dream, the dream of why they agreed to be part of the exodus in the first place … a dream that included keeping humanity safe as well as all the other egalitarian values for which the Star League represented …. Thus they established a hidden base from which they could safeguard the remaining humans ….
However due to Nicholas’ extermination order to remain would place all their plans in jeopardy … thus they gave their safeguard to the inheritors of their will … the partisans … and left for parts unknown.
From then on the partisans have worked within the shadows to recruit others and to undermine their oppressors from the shadows …
With the introduction of Operation Serpent, and their warriors etc, for the first time the partisans now have a chance to strike back militarily …. Thus they took it …
Now Operation Serpent / Partisans strike back at the Clans using military force …. Their air to free humanity from the grip of the Clans ….
Tell me this does not make for a compelling opening story….?
As for the Industries … the Wolverine issue occurred in 2823-24 …. Thus they has how many years to acquire Clan plans etc and replicate them on their hidden world ….
As for one world producing food, technology and a military industry complex … many of the IS worlds can do this … how many of the capitol worlds can do this plus many of the major industrial worlds of the IS ….? Therefore I do not consider it a foppery ….
Quote: ” One man with a gun can control 100 without”
I hope that gun is a fully automatic with a large clip …. 100 “Spartacus’s” rushing him at the same time …. Good-by ….
As for ‘Mechs … this is the reason the partisans have yet to engage in open warfare, and the reason why they need the warriors of Operation Serpent to lead them in battle against the Clans ….for the first time a force with experienced military personnel have arrived … they can throw off humanities’ shackle that the Clans Eugenics program have placed on them ….
I agree not all Clans are completely bad, however, they all do contain elements that do require purging from society – authoritarian government, fostering, quotas and many others – and you cannot say that some of the Clans are also to be considered one step removed from being considered to be – evil in nature.
QUOTE: “If a civil war was brewing, it would be at a later time.”
I disagree, a civil war requires heat and pressure, both of which are in abundance with the entry of Operation Serpent. Plus Operation Serpent for the first time gives the partisans a chance to strike back … a chance that they will not let go … as it is their first change in freeing humanity from the Clans … and this time they are not going to give it up until the war is completed one way or another …
This is a little bit more compelling than the original don’t you think?
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
|
Requiem
06/22/18 02:15 AM
58.175.193.140
|
You do realise at this point the IS / partisan / Clan Nova Cat / Phellan’s Wolves Vs. All pro-Eugenics Clans War could be ongoing from one generation to the next. A war that if fought in multiple systems throughout the space between the two realms, Clan Space and returning to the IS?
A war that has bogged down to a galactic “trench warfare” scenario ….
Victor consumed by the ongoing war could have even given the FC to Katherine to run as his duties as a General and the duration of the war require him to be on the front … not within the IS … anyway in his mind se is more than capable … thus blinkered as a general in war and as long as he receives his supplies he is bling to the truth within the IS and what Katherine is up to ….
As first price he also could have abdicated (look at the King of England pre WW2 and Wallace as an example) …. Victor and Omi?
Who is to say what this scenario could evolve into, but my bet is that it would be more interesting than the current one?
Just because it is written by the others as cannon law it does not require us to conform …. Cannon does not mean absolute compliance to the exclusion of every other idea ….
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
|
ghostrider
06/22/18 03:20 AM
66.74.61.223
|
Kind of funny that a multi generation war is suggested, yet to destroy house Kurita, it had to be a quick war.
But I do think you could have a good long campaign as long as luck doesn't kill your players. Gauss rifle to the head isn't a good thing.
But then having the entire IS go into a full revolt ight give you a whole lot more things to do. Simple things like march leaders thinking they should rule their lands, and not have a boss over them. Same thing with DC/FWL. Kind of break it down to the pre Star League borders again and have to start over.
|
Requiem
06/22/18 06:31 AM
58.175.193.140
|
Yes, the Clan war will take longer whereas the war with House Kurita was to be quick one. It all comes down to what is achievable given the attacking and defending forces / their resupply / rate of training etc. …. The Clans are a more formidable foe whereas the Kuritan’s (Circa. 3039) are not. (considering the advancements in technology and retrofitting advance tech to older machines etc. prior to the Invasion and even during the Invasion …)
We are the writers and it is our aim to write a compelling and believable story that our players would consider exciting and enjoyable ….
Is this not the aim ….?
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
|
ghostrider
06/22/18 01:12 PM
66.74.61.223
|
This mirrors the issues with the canon writers. One thing does not work period, but reversing the roles, resort to that very trick. Inconsistencies with logic to make their vision come true.
But reading the wiki, the clan civil war did happen in the future. The home clans got pissed at the invasion clans and finally did something about it. Not the civil war or time frame that is presented here, but again, only to be shown it does happen. This does answer the topic question. There was. Just not sooner then it did.
One issue seeming to be missed, is some people would be supportive to fanatical of the clan they are in. Trying to suggest otherwise doesn't work. More then a few nations today has that happening where the people not in the military or even benefitting from the quid pro quo, are loyal beyond normal. How many? That is another story. But not everyone is going to going a revolt against the leaders.
|
ghostrider
06/22/18 03:24 PM
66.74.61.223
|
Ok. Logically, when would the clan civil war happen?
Not during the invasion or counter invasion. That is 250-300 years to late.
It would have happened when the last names were taken away, or when the warriors decided to seize full control of the clans, or when Clan Wolverine decided the clan set up was wrong.
So it is very possible, the clans would have been dealing with unrest the entire history of them, resulting in them not invading the IS.
|
Requiem
06/23/18 03:23 AM
58.175.193.140
|
The Wars of Reeving …. Did this change the Clans society at a base level that I am suggesting … ie the controlling government structure from totalitarian to that of a democratic …. Where the military serves the people not controls the people ….
So again did it happen to the level that I am suggesting?
Yes some people are fanatics to the cause however the reverse is also true, therefore …How many? …. As not everyone will sit by and not revolt against their leaders and their Clan’s due to their past conduct that has precipitated the revolt … fostering …. beatings …. the warriors conduct to individuals ….etc.
When would it happen … as per my alt. history … shortly after the initial Operation Serpent Raid …
Too late by 250-300 years … the partisans have bided their time … built resources, industries and waited to ensure maximum devastation to the Clan’s political infrastructure …with Operation Serpent and the IS they now have the opportunity and they do not want to waste it ….
As with Wolverine … this was one clan against many the partisans were not set up at this time … they were in the infancy … it has taken them all this time to set up a dedicated and coordinated underground partisan group capable of inflicting severe damage to the Clan’s infrastructure …
Not invading the IS? ….. and give up on the dream Alexander and Nicholas installed upon all the Clans and their people, that they were the true inheritors of the Star League …..?
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
|
ghostrider
07/14/18 01:05 AM
66.74.61.223
|
Want a civil war, and remove the clans from the alt time line?
Easy.
The crusaders finally get tired of the wardens blocking them from hitting the IS, so come to an agreement, they would remove the cowardly wardens and hit the IS afterwards.
During the planning, they couldn't agree to anything, and ended up fighting each other.
The wardens sit back and laugh at them, but end up getting involved as the warden clans get into an argument on what to do with the crusaders getting out of hand, and dealing with any that survive.
Thus removing them from even attacking the IS for the forseeable future.
If you want to get them involved, then have comstar explorer corps or even someone in the IS finding their spies in the IS, and learn of their existence. Then the IS could invade them instead of the other way around.
Thus ends the need for a rewrite there, and allows the IS to beat each other senseless without the clans stopping them.
Thus your continue warfare is preserved without the need for most of the things going on with this storyline.
|
|
|
Extra information
|
3 registered and 73 anonymous users are browsing this forum.
Moderator: Nic Jansma, Cray, Frabby, BobTheZombie
Print Topic
|
Forum Permissions
You cannot start new topics
You cannot reply to topics
HTML is enabled
UBBCode is enabled
|
Topic views: 15011
|
|
|
|
|
|
|